#nefertari lily

[weird-anime-thumbnails]

Lily’s Great Crime Explained: The Birth Of The Will Of D. from Mr Morj

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im not even going to add a witty comment to this thumbnail i think its legitimately good. i know exactly what theory its about from the visuals and its a theory i 100% believe is true. submitted by @evercept

[danwhobrowses]

One Piece Chapter 1085 - Initial Thoughts

Oda likes his nice round numbers

The Reverie flashback continues, and after a cathartic incident we were left on a break, but now we're back

So Oda...what do you have for us today?

Spoilers for the Chapter, Support the Official Release also

I'm with ya Franky, we gotta let the baby turtles make it to sea

After last chapter's title got us looking forward to something sadly this one means sad times ahead

Cobra's already struggling too

Imu seems to have a verbal tic, calling themselves 'mu' instead of using 'I'

Mu can be key as well since it is a theme of the void (used in Ghibli movies a lot)

But Imu will answer the two questions, so long as Cobra answers one in return

Cobra says Imu was the name of one of the first 20, but Imu brushes it off with their superfluously magnanimous vocabulinguistics

According to Imu, D is the 'moniker' of their ancient enemy, but they're somewhat okay with people having it in their names because its meaning has been lost

Imu doesn't like Queen Lily though (TCB still uses Lili but since Stephen of Viz hates matching scanlations it's Lily in the official, despite the fact that Lili matches with Vivi), claiming they made a 'blunder' 800 years ago

Lily scattered the Poneglyphs!

And without the search of the Poneglyphs Imu believes that there wouldn't be any pirates after the One Piece, since Roger only found Laugh Tale via the Poneglyphs

They also call the Poneglyphs 'relics', so that means they did belong to nobility

Imu also wonders if Lily had a greater plan to it, which I would say she did, if she scattered the answers

So many questions from the get-go though; Alabasta and Wano already had the Pluton connection but now they have the Poneglyph connection (since Wano allegedly made the Poneglyphs), paired with Joy Boy and Zunesha - which in turn leads to the connection of Zou and the Kozuki - the lines are there but the center of the puzzle still doesn't take shape

The Gorosei are all packing heat right now too (except the swordsman, who's always packing his sword)

Lily's letter apparently is the key to the truth, which is why Imu wants Cobra to say Lily's full name

Cobra knows he's done for, and the Gorosei make it clear that seeing 'the great Imu' is cause for his silencing

Sabo is also overhearing all of this

Nefertari D. Lily

Immediately after Cobra is attacked by an arrow-like pierce, but it's also flexible since it curved to him

Sabo then jumps in, Fire Fist on all the Gorosei and then a 'Smothered Mate' (a chess move according to the T/N) to Imu

It's hard to tell, but I think the dark energy that attacked Cobra guards Imu from the attack, undoubtedly looking annoyed by seeing another witness

Oh, the Gorosei all have powers...

To the left we have a bull-like creature that is Saturn (judging by his position that we last saw him), the Swordsman or the regular guy looks like he's awakened so I don't think he's a Zoan, and if he is then it'd be a humanoid one, middle could be Imu or it could be the other (in the next panel we do see something that looks like Edvard Munch's Scream which could be him instead), Tall Beardo looks like a draconian bird - like an Amphitere - also awakened, and finally Gorbachev kinda looks like a Boar or Warthog Zoan

Of course this is where Sabo got snapped by cameras, the Gorosei and Imu being on the other side and thus obscured

Cobra knows that Sabo's Luffy's brother, though I guess that did make the news post-Dressrosa

Cobra's also shocked that Sabo stepped in to save him, since he's a Revolutionary, but Sabo notes the bigger picture at hand

Kinda wish Cobra and Sabo could've bonded over knowing Luffy someplace else where Cobra isn't bleeding out

Noble as ever, Cobra begs Sabo to ditch him as dead weight, after all he needs Sabo to survive and send a message to Luffy and Vivi

"We share the moniker D."

I guess that confirms it; Neferati D. Cobra, Neferati D. Vivi

Of course Sabo wanted to be a D., was the only ASL brother left out

Ha SaD.Bo! XD Only Luffy

That arrow tail thing (I think it's a tail, it looks like a devil's tail) slashes Sabo and Cobra this time

Whatever that creature is it's got a low mouth

Cobra takes his last stand, stating the contents of the letter (which we only partially see) as he helps Sabo escape

I suppose this is one of the few times people of the internet will be devastated to see the death of a king

Fly the Flag that Heralds the World's Eventual Dawn.

Swordsman spots a noise by the wall, and through the peephole panics Wapol

Dude you shouldn't celebrate good people dying

He's right on that part though, he is a marked man, he saw the biggest skeleton in the closet

Back at the actual Reverie, rather than the events surrounding it, the rest of the royals muse over Cobra and Wapol's absence

Riku and Neptune do sense something amiss

Coalition of Four Northern Nations? That wouldn't happen to be the four nations whose kings lost their heads to one Vinsmoke Judge would it? Or would it involve Lvneel (Noland's nation) or Flevance?

After the incident last chapter, the Fishman brothers are not setting one fin more in Marejois, insisting that they take Shirahoshi to the Red Port

Shirahoshi does look forlorn though, wanting to say goodbye to Vivi

Vivi was captured! By the former CP9 dudes now as CP0

Kalifa implying that Vivi will probably be treated like a pet after word gets out about her disappearance makes me feel like we should've killed more Celestial Dragons...

Vivi does ask about Shirahoshi though, strangely Kalifa does oblige her and tell her that she's safe, is there respect there?

Jabra meanwhile talks about how Sai and Leo declared themselves publicly, so this is definitely 'the incident' the Grand Fleet caused

He says 'assaulted' though, so Accordion Charloss is probably still alive

HA! Fujitora somehow managed to help the Revolutionaries free more slaves, pissing off Ryokugyu too, should've just dropped a meteor on him (though maybe he did, 'went at it' could mean a fight)

Vivi's escape is a matter of fortune though, as Wapol comes crashing through the wall trying to escape

So alas, Wapol still doesn't have a conscience, Vivi's just smart enough to latch onto the rampaging bull who wants to get away from the World Government as far as possible

Kindrella I mean, you're a gold digger anyway you can't act like you had genuine feelings

Well then. Stuff happened.

We'll pour one out for King Cobra, a small hope before this flashback was that his death was faked or a trickery but yeah he's proper bit the dust here. Went down like a champ though and in poetic irony did it to save Sabo, the man who had only ever seen the worst in nobles.

People may think now that I don't think Lily is Imu, and you're half right, but not entirely, I think it still could be Lily, but only visually. Imu was implied to be one of the other 20, maybe they used Law's bodyswap powers to take Lily's body? The info remains vague.

Key thing though is that the Gorosei are all power-users, and all very powerful, enough for Sabo - the feral boy who fought an Admiral in Dressrosa - to hightail it out of there. So we have to expect that Saturn ain't coming to Egghead to stand there and 'negotiate'. We're gonna expect this horned dude to throw down.

Vivi's escape is daring, or should I say D.aring, Vivi being a D. was not on my bingo card but you know I fly with it, Sabo should just decide to be a D. too, I mean if it's a Moniker of the enemy then use it as a symbol of rebellion, Ignatius D. Sabo, Sabo D. Sadboy, Portgas D. Sabo, pick your name.

There's so much implications to this chapter, and no break which is a big plus! But I do think we're still not gonna see Luffy yet, I feel like we may have one more flashback of the Reverie left, then possibly some present-day stuff with the Revolutionaries and Vivi/Wapol/Morgans, we could also have some more to see from Garp in Fullalead, but something tells me that we'll see Luffy and co again at 1090, then at 1100 the Egghead incident will go down.

Overall though, this heat is getting way too hot to handle

[misslydian]

my brother's radical theory on Lily's letter

[elasgottoomuchfreetime]

Istg Im-sama is so scary

[vulpeculaque]

princess vivi my beloved

[starlightbelle]

So yeah it has been pointed out that Joe had a Lily tucked into his pocket

Which of course is an ode to Crocodile’s first manga appearance

But it being a lily struck me given what we know now about Nefertari D. Lili……

Was that foreshadowing in some way even that long ago? Maybe I’m reaching but it does seem interesting to me

[1000sunnygo]

Trafalgar D. Water Law: Whats the significance of Water?

Gonna be a long one, you can scroll down to TLDR below.

Many of us know that the spelling of Water in Law's name isn't the actual katakana spelling of the liquid water, ウォーター (Wo-ta-), which follows the classic British pronunciation. Instead, it's a new word ワーテル (Wa-teru), which combining with "Law" (written as "Ro, ロー" in Japanese) makes the correct Japanese spelling for "Waterloo (ワーテルロー)".

Big Mom's hat is named "Napoleon", the irony.

For the sake of separation from water, let's call it "Watel" for now.

It may not be that deep. "Waterloo" could be a simple pun Oda came up with on a whim, but the scene leaves a bit of mystery. Law was abruptly cut off while talking with Baby 5 and Buffalo. And the pun only works in Law's name; it wouldn't work on, say, his sister Lami's name.

Also, for Law to uncover the mystery of his checkered fate, it'd make sense that his character arc is leading to finding the history of his own bloodline.

Trafalgar family happens to be the only family of Ds with an extra hidden name so there's something going on. Unfortunately, Law is the only surviving member of Trafalgar family and he knows nothing about it. Now it's up to him to restore his family's lost knowledge.

Law says "Watel" is 忌み名, a "secret name."

The word 忌み名 (imina) is an uncommon word, Japanese readers needed to do some dictionary digging too. "Imi" (忌み) means abstinence, taboo, religious purification; "na" 名 means name. Imina can be defined as a pure name, or a taboo name.

There's an old Japanese article speculating about Law's name, here's a passage from it:

The term "忌み名" encompasses meanings such as "given name for a person of high status," "title bestowed based on achievements during one's lifetime," and "name used for the deceased person." If Watel is a "忌み名" meaning a "given name for a person of high status," it might trace back to Law's ancestors, possibly connecting to nobility. Therefore, online discussions include speculations like "Were Law's ancestors individuals of considerable status?" or "Could they have been part of the royalty?"

To clarify what it meant with "the name given to a deceased person", I've read some articles about "imina", so let me share what I understood. It's an additional knowledge unrelated to Law's name, I'll explain why afterwards.

Names are often believed to be linked to spirituality, like how you can't exorcise a devil without its name, or use voodoo dolls on a person without knowing their name. In old Japan and China, sometimes two names were given to a person. One is the name that is shared with everyone, other is their taboo name 忌み名 'imina' - that is kept hidden within the family. This name relates to the person's spirituality.

忌み also means pure. As spirit world is linked to deities and gods, and dead body is considered impure. A person would be called in their imina or pure name when the person dies and become a spirit. It was forbidden to call a person using their imina during their lifetime, and to refer to them in their human world name after their death.

The parents gave their children a good 'imina' for their better future. A child with 'imina' has a connection with their spirituality, and by knowing that name, they were believed to have some control over their future.

According to this classic definition, a living person is never called in their imina which is their spirit's name, and it wouldn't be tucked into their real name. For Law to have an 'imina', rather than as his spiritual name, it is implied that his family carried Watel as a secret title that become part of a name over the generations.

From the theories I've read about Law's name, here's a common ground most of them agreed on:

D is a name shared among many people from The Ancient Kingdom, whereas the name Watel specifies a title given to a specific bloodline, for a yet unknown reason.

The theory that D's aren't a single bloodline became more apparent over time, it's now believed to be a codename that was passed down regardless of their ethnicity and family history (ie. Queen Lily who didn't belong to ancient kingdom) - only thing common among them is that they're the enemies of "gods", aka Celestial Dragons.

So who were the Watel? Throwing in my personal theory....

I think Trafalgar family didn't belong to the Ancient Kingdom. Rather, they were affiliates of the Neferteri Family that took the name "D".

There are some similarities between Trafalgar and Neferteri families.

Both of these families are the only D's that kept their names hidden, implying that their ancestors could retain some knowledge of the void century (unlike other Ds who seem to know nothing of D's significance, which means the truth of their bloodline was completely suppressed from being passed down). How could these two families survive the complete purge of knowledge? By never belonging to the ancient kingdom.

Both Neferteri and Trafalgar families are loosely attached to the classic "D" characteristics, to the point you can't immediately associate them to being D's. Rather than bringing a wave of change themselves, they're particularly interested about learning the history. Notably Cobra and Law.

Here's the headcanon territory.

The two families probably had connections in the past through two people: Queen Neferteri Lily and a Trafalgar who we don't know yet.

How were they connected? Couldn't be marriage, as the family names weren't exchanged.

Doctor and Patient, perhaps?

Watel was a title given to the Trafalgar by Queen Lily. That's where the 'title connected to royalty' of imina comes from.

The word Watel (ワーテル) doesn't have a meaning per se, but I can push it a little in meta direction.

The more convincing theory is that it's a wordplay, Watel = War Tale (in japanese it only needs a space in the middle of the word) similar to Raftel = Laugh tale. Probably a title given for the heroic activities of Trafalgars during the war between the Celestials and the Ancient Kingdom.

A less convincing theory is that Watel's close alternative "Water" goes in combination with "Lily" to form Water Lily. We know that Arabasta is based on Egypt, and Water Lily in Egyptian culture has a great significance and connection to sun. Maybe the Queen's gesture of respect was to give a title that would combine with her name.

Reminder that Law's name also has a 'combination pun', Waterloo.

This is the only ancient doctor that has been mentioned in One Piece. Possibly the same doctor - that'd tie up most loose thread together. Too convenient? hasn't stopped Oda until now, has it?

Doctor Trafalgar possessed the power of ope ope no mi and performed many miracle operations, Queen Lily hired them for their skill and talent, giving them a royal title. Both Lily and the doctor took the codename "D" to support the people from Ancient Kingdom who were rebelling against Imu and the Celestials.

Doctor Trafalgar discovered the fruit's potential of performing a perennial youth surgery, an information that was intercepted by Nerona Imu. The doctor was kidnapped and forced to perform the surgery on him, the process taking thier life.

Alternative could be that Watel was the given name of the doctor and Trafalgar family simply carry it as a tribute to them, remembering their connection to a royal family and an inevitable sacrifice.

The fruit returning to the same family, to another Trafalgar who has yet to confront Imu as a D to find the history of their family - would truly affirm that Law's life is "checkered." It'd be poetic for Law to play a key role in Imu's downfall. lHopefully without putting his own life at risk.

Rosinante believed Law is kept alive as if by a divine force. He must have a role to play.

TL;DR

- Law's secret family name Watel is an 'imina', in his own words, which signifies that it's a secret title passed down by his ancestors.

- Similar to Neferteri Family, Trafalgar Family are D's who didn't belong to the ancient kingdom and thus survived the purge of knowledge, able to withhold some knowledge and keep the D in their names hidden over generations.

-The ancestors of both of these families took the codename 'D' like people from ancient kingdom to support their action against Imu, even though they didn't belong to the ancient kingdom themselves.

-Watel was either the royal title or the given name of a Trafalgar who worked under/with Neferteri Lili, and was likely a doctor who possessed and discovered the immortality operation of Ope Ope no mi.

-The said doctor was forced to grant perpetual youth to Imu, dying in the process. Trafalgar family carry 'Watel' in their names as a tribute to the fallen ancestor.

-Law having the same fruit as his fallen ancestor is the truth of his checkered fate. It's possible that he will be involved in taking down Imu.

[firefistacesfreckles]

i'm sorry but i'm conviced that im was down horrendously for lili because who keeps their enemy's big ass portrait in their castle?

and he seemed to be way too interested in vivi too (who seems to look just like lili)

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

Vivi looks so similar to her ancestor, Nefertari D. Lili

[maximumqueer]

Chapter 1116 Spoilers

We finally have confirmation that Imu is immortal, or that at the very least that they have been alive since the Void Century. Most people already had guessed this was the case (myself included) but it's nice to see it be confirmed, even in a more implicit way like this.

Also, why the fuck does Imu have a portrait of Nefertari D. Lili?? Their past relationship and connection has to be one of the most intriguing things in the series (to me) aside from who exactly Joyboy is. And this panel is only adding fuel to the fire.

If I were to make a guess, it would be that Imu and Lili were at some point friends/allies, but when Lili stared seeing corruption within Imu and the newly formed word government, she left. Maybe Imu killed her and that's why she never returned to Alabasta, or many she went off to try to find a way to stop them.

We really don't have a lot of information to go off of, both Imu and Lili are still relativity unknown, so I could be ( and probably am) way off the mark. But, it's still fun to speculate on how exactly these characters are tied together, and I'm looking forward seeing how it unfolds in the future.

[yorkin-it]

HAPPY DEBUT EPISODES TO NEFERTARI LILI!!!!! 🥳🥳🥳 heres my fan design of her + a cute little thing with her n imu 😊 can't wait to learn about their backstory!

[danwhobrowses]

One Piece Chapter 1116 - Initial Thoughts

The lore keeps coming, and more is still to come

Vegapunk has been dropping bombs while Egghead descends into fiery chaos, let's see what more he can tell us

Spoilers for the Chapter, Support the Official Release too

A bento from Tsuru this time for Yamato, don't like that Ushimaru's still hovering around there, he got his shit slapped by Luffy sure but he profited from Orochi's rule

The world continues to question Vegapunk's revelations, how can such island-destroying weapons still exist? Who could live for 800 years to continue the war?

Who indeed, as we see more of Imu's room

They stand at a big portrait, she looks like Vivi but I'd bet on this being Nefetari D. Lily

Alabasta remains in mourning too, Igaram and Karoo continue to worry about Vivi being missing

Chaka and Pell attend Cobra's funeral

During this, Vegapunk reveals how he had sought a clean energy source, and that as a result he was able to create the Mother Flame

Wait, Lulusia was done by a fragment of it?? The WG stole it from Vegapunk?

The CP agents and Seraphim look in a bad way from the landing too

Edison and Stussy discuss what happened, surmising that another Gorosei is moving up to the Labophase

Edison can't help the Straw Hats anymore either, since the clouds can't reach them anymore

Stussy, to his surprise, requests that Kaku be freed - insisting that she won't let them target the crew, but doubt that's his priority

Edison apologizes for Stussy, noting that she identified the CP0 lot as her friends and was still chose Vegapunk over them

Kaku you better pull through after this, this is thrice now your life has been spared

Edison points out that her conflict is proof of her humanity, and encourages to live how she pleases

Back to Vegapunk, he explains how the Mother Flame's theft led to Lulusia

The Lulusia survivors with the Revolutionary Army have to sit and hear how their country was wiped out by an unprovoked assault

Elizabello cameo as he didn't even know that Lulusia was taken down, and asks to confirm it

The Mother Flame fragment was used to power an ancient weapon, all but hinting that the WG have Uranus as we expected

Vegapunk apologizes in the video, declaring himself an accessory to murder, while also pointing out that it has likely proven his theory

It seems many in the crowd don't hold Vegapunk accountable though

Momo however is again being very attentive, asking what that means for Pluton

Crocodile is also listening intently, given his desires for Pluton

And we pan over to Shirahoshi too, since she's also an Ancient Weapon

Vegapunk says that Joy Boy attempted to pass down the Ancient Weapons, which begets the question why? Why encourage the flooding of the world?

Sengoku is stress eating through this too

Vegapunk also points out that there are those who know about the Void Century

Akainu also seems intrigued - in his own angry way - about Vegapunk spilling the deets

As we already knew, Roger's crew know the secrets

The Navy however did not know, freaking out that pirates know

Of course, many of the public are also baffled that 'evil pirates' have been trusted with such information

York is having a freak out too, wondering how Vegapunk could've known that she stole the Mother Flame for the Gorosei

He's apparently a bad liar and actor, so she starts connecting the dots; his surprise at her betrayal, the preparation of the broadcast, the hiding of the snail

Wormy's back, and nah he's just up and eating the CP agents

York hits a brainwave though, the broadcast snail is in the Fabiostratum

The Iron Giant is guarding it!

Back at Sabaody, Vegapunk's broadcast muses why the Roger Pirates kept such information secret? Why fade into hiding?

Rayleigh meanwhile is drinking heavier than usual, accusing Vegapunk of telling the world too much

He doesn't want Vegapunk to take the thrill of knowing away

Oooof, another week break

Well what is that supposed to mean huh?

Lore-wise nothing was really dropped from Vegapunk that we didn't already know, aside that the weapon used on Lulusia was powered partially by the Mother Flame. But it still gives some questions.

Why would Rayleigh be excited about the idea of a flooded planet? Was there more to the Ancient Weapons? If the sea levels rose 200m in the Void Century was Joy Boy behind it? A Sea of Pirates perhaps?

And what's with the Lily poster Imu? You wanted to murder Vivi and yet you have a portrait of her ancestor, an ancestor they criticized to Cobra, in your special little vivarium room?

Kaku and Stussy meanwhile look like they're planning an exit, though I still don't trust Lucci to try and go for the double tap. The question now however is if Kaku will take the out? I know we all want him to but we also wanted Kizaru to turn face and...yeah look where that got us?

Not many super surprising cameos this time, I guess Elizabello II is one, a fellow Grand Fleet Member and King would have stock in learning that a nation was wiped out by the WG. And we got to see Crocodile but no dialogue. Heck we didn't even see any Straw Hats this time! The question on my mind still though is this: why was video needed? What visual does Vegapunk still need to show?

The Iron Giant at least has a purpose now, being the front line for the broadcast snail, but that puts a target on his back, as does being a Roger Pirate now, Buggy's legacy will only grow given how they'll assume that he holds ancient knowledge XD

As usual though, more questions than answers.

[joysstar]

For once, I'm speechless, Oda outdid himself in this chapter.

Sabo revealed himself as an absolute badass by assaulting the Gorosei in a one shot.

Not everyone has the guts to do it. It seems he mixes Ace's favorite move and adds some new ones.

It's his own way to remind them what they did to his brother and a way to honor his memory as well.

He then attacks Imu without fear. That man is really something else.

Imu is at the top of the world, Sabo has just met him/her, he didn't know about his/her existence.

And yet like Luffy, he doesn't display any kind of fear or hesitation. He just wants to protect Cobra.

Cobra's and Sabo's teamwork is impressive. It's sad they had to meet under such circumstances. They would get along greatly!

Can we also talk about Cobra? That man has the guts to talk about a very secret subject.

Can we talk about his ancestor, Nefertari D. Lili? Can we talk about Vivi? Badassery runs in the family!

He sacrifices himself in order to protect Sabo, he wants to unleash the truth to the world.

And believe me, he will be remembered pretty much like Pedro with Carrott.

Actually it also makes me sad for Vivi, Luffy and their friends. Ace died to protect Luffy, Cobra died to protect Sabo.

Let's make sure Dragon will fight to honor the memory of such a great king!

[khepiari]

Vivi will bring Peace after Luffy destroys the current world order!

QUEEN OF THE WORLD!

I am telling you what I have been saying for a while now, after Luffy destroys everything as Joyboy, Vivi will fulfil the promise of bringing peace to the world that Nefertari D Lily failed to deliver.

Odachii is not beyond making silly puns into full-fledged sad stories! He can and he will!

I mean PEACE LILY: they symbolize solace and remembrance.

Vivi's Latin root word is vīvus which means alive, related to the Latin word vīvere which means to live and revive!

[vulpeculaque]

little messy concept for what I imagine queen Lili looked like :p might revisit later hehe

[cardboard-writer]

Since we have gotten more than a few hints that the Gorosei are immortal: I believe they were among the 20 Kings that fought Joyboy. Some of them are easier to guess: Nusjuro is most likely from Wano. Perhaps Saturn is from Dressrosa.

Or maybe their elite guard, perhaps they and Imu tricked the other 14 into fighting Joyboy. Only Lili realised the deception at the last minute and her only course of action was to scatter the Poneglyphs (maybe she was the previous user of the Paw Paw Fruit). This treachery is what the Elders are afraid of the world finding out along with the reveal that the world is sinking.