#nancy cheats on steve with jonathan and steve wants his revenge but doesn’t want his king steve persona to take a hit

[findafight]

Controversial headcanons/opinions! That are mostly about Steve now that I read them back.

1. Stancy’s biggest roadblock is Nancy’s inability to admit she’s wrong/makes mistakes.

2. Jancy’s biggest roadblock is Jonathan’s parentification. Jon loves Will, but some of his devotion to him is tied up in that - something I think fandom tends to overlook. We’ve already seen that Nancy either forgets or underestimates how much the Byers rely on Jon and I would not put it past her to view him looking after Will on the same level as her having to look after Mike & Holly.

Even once it’s revealed and they talk about it, it’s going to open a rift between them.

3. Joyce doesn’t give a shit about Steve and never will. Hop gives a shit reluctantly, in a mostly professional capacity but will be haunted with guilt if Steve dies.

4. Karen Wheeler is a shitty person and if the Duffers wanted me to think different maybe shouldn’t have teased her considering sleeping with a kid her daughter’s age. Also doesn’t give a shit about Steve, but is better at hiding it.

5. Billy, while being in the closet and brimming with self hatred, did not have a crush on Steve - he wanted the weird codependent yet weirdly void of sexual tension friendship that Steve would go onto have with Robin.

The fact that Steve hated him and was constantly ignoring him or pushing back at him was part of the appeal. That and the fact Steve’s a bitch - Billy thought that was hilarious.

6. Steve intelligence wise is average and actually has a fairly broad general knowledge - he just has difficulty with the terminology and isn’t great at explaining things to other people.

7. Steve’s kids are Dustin, Max, Lucas and Erica. He will absolutely protect the other three, but any presence he continues to have in their lives is a by-product of the other four.

8. Mike has a on again/off again crush on Steve and it’s part of the reason he turns into an angry cat around him.

9. We will meet Vickie’s entire family before we see the Harringtons on-screen.

10. Jon would *not* react well to Stargyle happening - he refuses to believe Steve is queer, assuming he’s just messing with Argyle/trying to get revenge on Jon for cheating with Nancy (for added tragicomedy, this is how Steve finds out about that).

11. Eddie likes ABBA. I have no fucking idea why fandom seems to think that he’d hate it and has me genuinely questioning how many people in fandom have met an actual metalhead. I know he’s a pretentious douche, but *Jesus*.

12. Whatever else happens between them, Robin will always hold a grudge against Nancy for not knowing who she was when they were first introduced. Steve has the excuse of being a popular kid who was ignorant of his surroundings at all times. Robin is the person who could swipe Valedictorian out from under Nancy but chooses not too. See also, Barb and the handful of grudges she has with Nancy regarding Steve.

omg so many anon! let's do this. long post so I'm going to add a readmore!

Yeah I mostly agree? The inability to let Nancy apologize or be wrong I think really sets back her growth as a character no matter what, and it's really pronounced with stancy! It is something that could be resolved but I do not think the show will do that. Steve wasn't the person Nancy needed in s2, but maybe he is now. Idk there's better stancy meta out there haha There are issues they have I'd love to see addressed but. doubtful they will. Idk if nancy will end up single (like I think she should) but I also don't know if they're actually going to follow through on stancy revival in s5 or just leave jancy as is.

2. Jonathan's parentification!! Absolutely agree. He needs to work through his inability to move on and look to the future for himself. His focus is on Will, who needs more of an older brother from him than another parent, especially now Will is closer to the age Jon was when everything started. Jon is defined by his family, and them needing him. But we sort of see in s4 that Will is growing up, El is too, and they don't need him in the same way Will needed to depend on him in earlier seasons, and Jon is spending time smoking with Argyle, but not actually dealing with what he's feeling.

this is room for Jonathan to develop character-wise, but it's also so interesting how his parentification has been an issue with Nancy! Like she wants to be a priority, but Jon can't do that, because he hasn't figured out how to 1) focus on himself and his wants 2) let himself look at the future as something that isn't looming but something to look forward to!

God I would love to see him figure out what he actually wants and how to balance that with his loyaty to his family in the show! or read a jon focused fic where he gets to deal with these things.

3. Joyce doesn't like steve :'| why would she? he's just some guy to her that Jon didn't like and who used to date her son's girlfriend. Steve's not on her radar at all she doesn't give a shit about him lol (I should write more of the joyce doesn't like steve fic)

4. uhg yeah I think I've already posted about alternatives to the stupid Karen side-plot where it's like. random pool middle age affair man, flirting with mr. clarke, or just her making moves on her own husband to show she wants to make changes in their marriage and the fair being a little date for the wheelers or SOMETHING to make her not creepy and actual have it mean something to her character? or just. not! include! any karen plotline at all!

5. billy is interesting because i would say there might be some one-sided sexual thing happening between him and Steve, and Steve hating and ignoring him would totally egg him on with whatever was going on in his brain. idk if he wanted it actually actionable but was probably going for some weird and very intense pscho-sexual homoerotic relationship. maybe not what could be described as a crush but certainly not whatever stobin has going on (though if he had lived stobin would have also pissed him off lol)

6. Yes! steve can understand a lot if he's given time to understand it. like he's just not a genius or talking fast, and he asks clarifying questions so he (and everyone else) knows exactly what's happening. maybe that might look like he's getting left behind but he's making sure everyone is on the same page, which is actually an important part of plans and sharing info. I'd also say he'd probably have pretty good head for strategy!

7. Dustin, Max, Lucas and Erica are absolutely steve's kids! thank goodness we got Steve and Max content in s4, but I'd love to see more of Steve and Lucas and Erica! I do love Steve with El too, because I think they should and could have a great dynamic, but that's all fanon, unfortunately. Mike and Will having some kind of relationship with Steve are just byproducts of Steve being friends with the others.

8. Mike and his mortifying crush on steve is so precious to me. He'd be so mad about it. It'd be so funny. to me. not for him. but for me :)

9. Harrington parents will remain an unsolved mystery haunting the fandom forever and always. We will know the names of Robin's grandparents and their pets before we see or hear anything more than Mr. and Mrs. Harrington.

10. I am obsessed with this idea. I love stargyle sort of coming out of nowhere for other people. My favourite. They can bond over having great hair and being a chauffeur for children not related to them. Jon side-eyeing this so hard even tho maybe he's been focusing on Nancy and their relationship when steve and argyle are having their Bonding Moments. The confrontation of Jon accusing Steve of getting with Argyle to mess with him, Steve going "what the hell. why would I have an elaborate polt to mess with you that included pretending to be queer? and kissing a man? multiple times??"

and Jon blurting about how of course he would to get back at jon for cheating with Nancy and steve just stopping. and trying to clarify. and Jon digging himself deeper. ooooooh. something to think about and expand on?? 👀👀👀

11. it was the 80s and disco was way out of style but also. who doesn't like ABBA. don't trust anyone who doesn't like at least one ABBA song. suspicious. Eddie would be vocal about his hatred for Progressive Rock though.

12. Robin and her grudges!!!! omg yes if robin was holding herself back from being valedictorian she'd be Pissed that Nancy didn't know who she was. like at least know your rivals! that in combination with the barb thing and all the steve things. Robin's not letting it go. I love her pettiness she's so funny and great. Queen.

[thestobingirlie]

alright, you went out of your way to ‘respond’ to my comment without responding lmao. but i’ll still answer you anyway.

jonathan may have been “worst case scenario-img”, but he’s also never “best-case scenario-ed”. the only thing we know about his attitude towards his and nancy’s relationship is that he thinks that if he and nancy don’t break up, they’re doomed to be miserable. he admits he’s slow-motion breaking up with her. he’s pulled so far away from nancy that she thinks he’s cheating on her! they may just be teenagers now, but these issues don’t bode well for a happy life in the future.

sure, jonathan is fine to support nancy in her revenge, until her actions don’t align with his own, at which point… nothing. my point with s3 is that, unlike what you said, jonathan isn’t constantly supportive of nancy. i know where he’s coming from, and i don’t strictly disagree with him telling her to drop it. but in the end he isn’t perfectly fine holding the camera and cheering her on. the only reason he ended up “coming around” is because nancy told him that will was in danger. not because he values her opinion above all else. it’s easy to call assholes douchebags when you’re out of the situation, and don’t actually have to support your girlfriend facing sexism.

steve doesn’t have a “perfect mom” scenario lmao! his dream is literally just “me, my loving wife, and our kids travelling the country”. he said nothing about wanting perfect children, and a perfect home-maker wife. steve doesn’t even say he wants nancy to be a mother! when he tells her she’s a part of that dream, once again, he says nothing else matters, but her!!! you really are just purposefully trying to interpret steve’s dream in the most awful way you can, while minimising all the negativity with which jonathan views his and nancy’s future.

you may be trying to talk about your hopes for nancy’s future, but it seems like most of your goal is just putting down steve and raising jonathan up. do you think nancy wants to continue to suffer in her uncertainty in her relationship with jonathan until he manages to sort out his issues? do you think she wants to be the focus of all his family issues as he assumes she’ll abandon her dreams, marry him, pop out kids and live in misery if he doesn’t break up with her? what nancy needs is honesty. she needs a loving relationship. she needs someone by her side as she tackles everything life throws her way. and of the two potential love interests, there’s only one that’s so far fulfilling those needs. and it’s not jonathan.

Can I just say, whoever Nancy ends up with, be it Jonathan or Steve or neither, it is not what matters the most about her character. HOWEVER, I really don't think she should end up back with Steve. Steve is not a bad guy in the slightest. He is one of the best guys and characters in the show. But, he and Nancy want different things and I think that's really important to focus on, because it's why they don't work. Steve talks about how he had this fantasy with Nancy as a mother to his children, and that's okay that it's what he wants from a partner, but Nancy doesn't. Remember the argument her and Jonathan had all the way back in season 1 where Jonathan mentions her "rebelling" and then settling down with Steve just like her mother (which Ted and Karen Wheeler should NOT be your romantic goals). It's clear she doesn't want to do that. She literally wants to fight the government and the patriarchy, seen especially in season 2 where she wanted to "burn the Hawkins lab to the ground" and season 3 where she wanted to stick it to her douche bag bosses. Jonathan, I don't think he wants that perfect family either. He seems perfectly fine with helping Nancy do all her illegal shit. He's fine with standing on the side, holding the camera and telling her that she's doing amazing sweety. Of course, if Nancy ends up on her own, that's fine, although I LOVE Jancy especially for the dynamic of it's them against the world. I just don't think Steve and Nancy rekindling their romance is the best idea.

Quick side note, I like the idea of Ronance, but I personally love Jancy and, from the few bits I've seen, Robin and Vickie ( Rovickie? Unsure if the ship name).

[demobats]

do revenge harringrove au when

[rosetintmyworld84]

Stranger Things Season 2 Thoughts

Spoilers ahead

So we definitely have confirmation on Joyce/Hopper having known each other for a long time. They went to school together, along with Lonnie and Bob. I don’t think they were involved (at least in school) because it seems pretty clear that Joyce married Lonnie pretty much out of high school, but we also know that there is no love lost between Hopper and Lonnie. Poor, sweet Bob, who had a crush on Joyce for forever, and was obviously a nerdy outcast. Hopper knows the nickname he used to be called (Bob the Brain) but it seems like he wasn’t really one of Bob’s tormentors. Maybe Lonnie was.

Aside from being a douchebag, I’m not sure what Billy’s deal is in regards to Lucas specifically. He’s clearly an abusive asshole bully to Max, and his dad very obviously is an abusive asshole bully to him. Does he just want to make Max suffer whenever possible? Is he racist? Is he going to get it on with Karen Wheeler in season 3?

While I super love mega Dad Steve, I’m pretty sad that there wasn’t more Steve/Nancy/Jonathan interaction. Nancy & Jonathan obviously talk, even though she later says they never hang out (they talk in school, Mrs. Wheeler doesn’t question him & Nancy hanging out). Off screen at the Halloween Party Jonathan & Steve talked, and Steve asked him to take Nancy home (which makes me think he went after Steve before going after Nancy after their fight, which, and Jonathan could tell he was upset, not something 2 acquaintances would normally do). I kind of miss the separate teens story arc.

I am also not a fan of Nancy cheating with Jonathan. There was no clear break up, and it’s hinted at that she was tired of waiting for Jonathan and went back to Steve, though that timeline doesn’t really fit, since Jonathan says she only waited a month, which would have been Christmas, and it seemed like they were back together for longer (plus they never brought up the camera again, and I am pretty sure Steve is the one who actually bought it since he was making amends at the end of Season 1). And while Nancy & Jonathan were off to get #justiceforbarb, Steve was around fighting the new monster problem. Something that Jonathan feels guilt about (”I should have been here”). For me, Nancy came off as a bit selfish this season, mostly worried about herself and her loss, and she didn’t seem to really be there for Mike (or Jonathan, really). That was one of her big takeaways at the end of season 1, how to be a better sibling, and she basically just, didn’t do it. She’s more on a path for revenge, hoping that will make everything OK, but as people keep telling her, it’ll never go back to normal, and she’s going to have to accept that. She did some through for Dustin in a big way at the end, and that does show some actual character development for her this season. Basically, she and Jonathan didn’t have much of an arc this season, except for the predictable romance which is a giant shame because there is so much more to explore with those characters.

I can’t for season 3 already, and I hope they expand more on the other Hawkins test subjects. I am really hoping they bring back Kali/8 and her band of misfits.

[heavencasteel420]

The tendency to downplay the slut-shaming bugs me a lot, too. I think it reflects a lot of unfortunate tendencies in fandom and the culture at large, including:

Not recognizing sexual harassment if the person doing the harassing isn’t expressing a desire to have sex with the victim (i.e., publicly shaming them out of anger/revenge);

Generally downplaying cruel, dangerous, or otherwise bad behavior unless it can be attributed to a really obvious sexual motive (see above);

Not recognizing misogyny as a serious problem, and/or refusing to see actions as misogynistic unless a character basically says “I’m doing this because you’re a woman and I want to keep you down” (so a character who uses gendered slurs and sexual rumors to punish a girl because he thinks she cheated on him doesn’t count);

Not recognizing bullying as morally wrong unless it’s very obviously the product of bigotry (see above) and/or the victim is completely blameless (I’ve never had the misfortune of seeing anyone say Nancy actually deserved the public humiliation, but I have seen people go “well, Steve thought she cheated on him, so of course he was upset,” in a way that implies that her actually cheating would’ve mitigated his behavior);

Getting so riled up about cheating that all perspective is lost (i.e., if someone even thinks they’ve been cheated on, they have a license to do whatever comes into their head, no matter how cruel or destructive);

Focusing more on discrete “rules” of how to be a good person (don’t say slurs against certain groups) than on generally not harming others (meaning that Steve deliberately doing something that would realistically make the rest of high school hell for Nancy doesn’t weigh as heavily as him saying a slur, even though he probably didn’t put that much thought into it and Jonathan seems to care a lot more about the really cruel stuff about Will’s supposed death).

I saw that post and, man, I didn’t like the examples in general. Way to try to inflate Nancy’s immorality stats. Also, I can give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume that Eddie’s “hypocrisy” is supposed to encompass putting Lucas, a younger black student, in a really difficult social position because he can’t think beyond his own ego, not just being loud and obnoxious. But, like, he also sells ketamine to high school kids.

If I’m being honest, i think the GA + fandom is actually more in danger of downplaying s1 Steve’s sequence of his slutshaming (he looked through Nancy’s window without her knowing, assumed she was cheating, proceeded to publicly slutshame her with his friends with the intention of humiliation, got her harassed by a guy on the street bc of said graffiti, and made her cry on top of all that), compared to forgetting s1 Jonathan taking creepy pictures (which virtually every single person, including Jonathan stans, at this point still remembers, and really, it isn’t actually an unpopular opinion to dislike him based on that—definitely a valid reason, but definitely not unpopular. It’s like saying “unpopular opinion but I don’t like Jason bc he was not a very nice guy to Eddie” lmao)

Steve breaking the camera (justified) and calling Jonathan a slur (not justified) were still things he did, but it just wasnt the single worst things he did that season, and I’ve seen multiple ppl on different sites now kind of gloss over his slutshaming of Nancy to emphasize those other two actions for some reason, especially when they’re comparing him to s1 Jonathan’s pictures.

It’s almost like it’s trying to soften s1 Steve’s character by redirecting attention to the other things he did (some arguably more sympathetic than others like breaking the camera or something brief/more off-the-cuff and less calculated like the slur) and ignoring that whole deliberate and misogynistic slutshaming plan he and his friends had for Nancy. Which I think is disingenuous, because if you like his series-wide, dynamic character development, then I would think you should be able to acknowledge even the ugliest parts of it that he grew from

And it’s a shame, since Steve is a good character but due to his popularity, is the most susceptible to character reduction from both an extreme anti and extreme stan standpoint—people who demonize him and, moreso, people who put him up on a pedestal and not treat him as a regular teenager who’s still ultimately good-natured yet occasionally clumsy and always has had the capacity for both good and asshole moments like every other human character on the show