#mythology and legend

[luanna801]

Currently reading The Silmarillion, and I don't know enough about the fandom to know if this point has been made before, but I'm fascinated by how much Maedhros comes across as a darker version of Gawain.*

Like, the Chronic Older Brother Syndrome? The constantly trying to keep a handle on a crowd of younger brothers who range from stabby to downright evil? The parent with a raging hate-on for their half-brother? Turning around and swearing fealty and acknowledging the kingship of said half-uncle anyway because it's the right thing to do? Just the general constantly getting caught in the middle of family drama with a literal body count despite actively trying to be on good terms with everyone involved? The blood feuds? The oath of vengeance which was objectively a terrible move but it was motivated by family loyalty and it's too late to turn back now? The courtesy and diplomatic skills? Even the close relationship with his cousin that's a li'l bit Sailor Moon, arguably?

These are all extremely #Gawaincore things, and given Tolkien's love of Arthurian mythology I have to think it was either intentional, or at least a subconscious influence. Tolkien even started writing his own retelling of the downfall of Camelot (sadly unfinished), as well as doing his own translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, which suggests to me that Gawain was a character he had particular interest in. (I haven't read Tolkien's Fall of Arthur, but I'd be really interested to check it out now and see how much these parallels are apparent in his Gawain portrayal.)

Anyway, I like to think if these two somehow met, they'd find a lot of common ground to commiserate/bond over that next to no one else would relate to. And I may or may not be tempted to write a fic where they do exactly that.

*Depending on the version of Gawain we're talking about, obviously, as some of his portrayals can be downright despicable. But I personally lean towards a Gawain that's more straightforwardly heroic than any of the Feanorians, though still flawed - and from Tolkien's own work with Arthuriana, it seems he did too.

[luanna801]

You can buy this here!

I'm pleased to announce that a reprint of Gawain and the Green Knight is officially in the works, and the book will be available on December 1st 🌿

[arwen-evenstar]

Excalibur (1981) dir.: John Boorman

[queer-ragnelle]

Mordred

[periodcostumefantasylover]

Guinevere's wedding dress and chainmail veil in Excalibur 1981

[nynevefromthelake]

The green knight🌿

Have spent hours on coloring only to understand that I like the monochrome variant more

[luanna801]

Oh gosh, I have so many thoughts about this!

I think Agravain plays a really interesting role in the Orkney brothers, in that he's the only one who seems to have genuinely clicked and bonded with Mordred, and the only one who ends up supporting Mordred's cause when the others side with Arthur.

Gaheris and Gareth both seem to look up to Gawain and follow in his footsteps (in the versions where Gawain is portrayed as noble and worthy of emulation, which is my preference), at least until Gaheris' random foray into matricide. Agravain is the next-oldest after Gawain, but neither of them seem to look up to him. In some versions like Vulgate, his dynamic with Gaheris is downright antagonistic. I think Agravain resents Gawain's authority as the oldest and is annoyed by how the younger two seem to just unquestioningly accept it and idolize him, while Agravain gets none of that.

Then Mordred shows up. In Mallory, this doesn't happen until Mordred is fourteen, so Agravain is presumably in his twenties. And for the first time, Agravain has a brother who fits his mold and not Gawain's, a brother that he meshes with. In the Vulgate Prose Lancelot, young Mordred is Agravain's squire (just like Gaheris is Gawain's in sources like Mallory), and that parallel alone is revealing. But we repeatedly see them paired up and later plotting together throughout the sources, like there's a bond between them that neither of them has with the other brothers.

Now, in the versions where they're played as two-dimensional villains that basically boils down to "They bonded over being evil", but I think there's room to add a lot of nuance there. Mordred is often portrayed as not starting off evil (again, see early Vulgate), and we get hints of that with Agravain too. One of his earliest chronological appearances is in Chretien's Story of the Grail, where he comes across as a bit hot-headed, but a protective and loyal brother to Gawain.

So I think you can definitely go the route that Mordred and Agravain weren't initially evil, but they bonded over being a bit different in personality from their brothers, maybe a bit more cynical in how they see the world. As someone who never idolized Arthur the way the three Gs do, once Mordred finds out the truth about his past, it's Agravain who would be the most inclined to listen and get angry on his behalf rather than automatically taking Arthur's side. While (to my knowledge) we're never explicitly shown a scene where that happens, we can read between the lines and assume something like it must have happened, since Agravain is later shown supporting Mordred's attempted coup.

And I honestly think Agravain has a solid argument to make that it's his loyalty that's exactly where it should be. That their first loyalty should have been to their brother and not their uncle. That Mordred deserves to get revenge on the man who (in several versions) tried to murder him as a baby, or at least took him from his family and sent him off to the middle of nowhere. That the crown is Mordred's by right as Arthur's son, and Agravain is only helping him get the justice Arthur denied him.

You may agree or disagree with all of those arguments, but I think they're ones which carry a lot of weight, and I think it's interesting that Agravain is the only one whose decision apparently came down on that side. I think there's endless potential to dig more into those complicated sibling dynamics, and I'd love to see a version where some of these arguments were explicitly played out onscreen rather than just being subtext.

Here's a genuine, good-faith question for Agravain fans: what stories of his do you like? Are there specific aspects of him you enjoy, or is it more about protectiveness over him getting blamed for catching someone else cheating?

[the-evil-clergyman]

King Arthur's Tomb, from William Morris' The Defence of Guenevere and Other Poems by Jessie M. King (1904)

[pinacoladamatata]

blink and you'll miss it moments around skyhold....

[nameless-is-nameless]

Going

Going

Gone

[bunnynoldo]

Halbrand/Sauron: the Fisher King symbology and meaning in the show

I was wondering why Halbrand's 'King of the Southlands' emblem is a kingfisher of all things. I've looked for some symbolism or meaning but nothing seemed to fit the narrative.

But when Celebrimbor mentioned the kingfishers just before his death, I knew that it must have a meaning, it must be important.

And then I had an epiphany, the meaning is not a kingfisher, it is the Fisher King! This meaning fits Sauron's narrative in the series perfectly.

The Fisher King is an immortal king in Arthurian legend. He is charged with keeping the Holy Grail.

Sauron is a Maia, a powerful spirit tasked with implementing Eru Iluvatar's will and protecting the world.

However, The Fisher King was wounded, and incapable of performing his tasks himself. Often the wound has been a punishment for a crime that the Fisher King has committed, and it would not heal in time.

The King Fisher's wound is Morgoth's corruption. Because of his terrible life choices, Sauron has been corrupted by Morgoth, and is incapable of fulfilling his sacred purpose as a Maia: creating order and peace in Middle-earth. In the show, this is represented by his inability to create the rings and take the leadership role.

His is impotence affected the fertility of his land, reducing it to a barren wasteland.

Forodwaith, and later Mordor, are wastelands - both are affected by Morgoth, the source of Sauron's wound/curse/corruption

All he could do is fish in the river near his castle and wait for the “chosen one” who would be able to heal him. His strength evaporated with his inactivity and his kingdom fell into waste. The only activity that seemed to give him pleasure was fishing in the lakes close to his castle.

After regaining his human form, Sauron wanders the Middle-earth aimlessly and ends up on a raft. He seemed content with staying in Numenor and working as a smith. The "chosen one" is Galadriel of course.

In the Arthurian legend, the Fisher King appears to the youth, Parsival, first in the form of a fisherman in a boat, then of a mortally wounded king who cannot find redemption for his sufferings.

The imagery is all here - Galadriel first sees Sauron on a raft.

And if you think that it is too subtle, behold the wounded king of the Southlands laying under the kingfisher sigil, watched over by a noble knight on a quest to find him:

In the legend, the noble knight manages to heal the Fisher King in exchange for the Holy Grail.

Galadriel unknowingly offers Sauron forgiveness and redemption through fighting at her side. But we know the outcome of this story - Sauron is not healed.

This could mean that it's a reverse Fisher King story - Galadriel, the noble knight, helps Sauron to take back his power as Morgoth's successor.

But that does not fit with dying words of Celbrimbor. He says that it's a pity how Sauron has silenced the kingfishers - therefore I think that Halbrand, the king of the Southlands with a kingfisher sigil, represents a repentant Sauron who wants to redeem himself.

When Celebrimbor says that Sauron has silenced the kingfishers, it symbolises the fact that Sauron has destroyed his chance at redemption with his actions.

And Sauron knows this at some level, even if he's still deceiving himself that he's committing all the atrocities for a higher good. That's why Celebrimbor's words of him never being able to reach the Undying Lands cut him so deep that he looses control.

And how could have Galadriel healed the Fisher King's wound? That's just my speculation, but returning to Arthurian legends, a knight on a quest for the Holy Grail has to ask the right question. And the right question in this case would be asking Sauron why didn't he come to repent to Valinor?

The only way to heal Sauron from Morgoth's corruption would be to persuade him to return to Valinor, because Sauron is a demigod corrupted by a god, and no one in the Middle-earth can heal him.

And we see this in the show - Sauron tries to repent and fails:

"...and he fell back into evil, for the bonds that Morgoth had laid upon him were very strong"

I'm wondering if we will get the exact moment when Sauron has embraced Morgoth again in the flashbacks in future seasons.

If the showrunners would like to make it very literal, he might have returned to Morgoth's service after Mount Doom's eruption - which could have been a magical event (the eruption was a part of Morgoth's plan in case of defeat). It would tie in nicely with Halbrand's actual would representing Morgoth's corruption.

Or coming back to Morgoth could have been a more gradual process starting with Galadriel's rejection.

(I was also speculating about Morgoth's role in the show here if you would like to read more about it)

(And here's something on ambiguity of Sauron's motives in the show)

[strangeoctober]

I find it interesting that people talk and write about fairies these days like they're these horrible, Machiavellian monsters that you mustn't ever risk dealing with. Even saying your name near them will forever put you in their thrall, forever! (Or something to that effect) But when you dig into the folklore, you find countless stories of fairies just getting dunked on in just the daftest ways.

I've been reading "The Lore of Scotland", by Jennifer Westwood and Sophia Kingshill, and when I noticed this trend, I started taking count of who wins in fairies vs. human confrontations. I'm only about a fifth through, and while it's not clear cut, the humans are winning by three points!

By way of example, let me tell you one of my favourite stories so far. Once upon a time, a young woman was abducted by the fay and carried away to a fairie mound. There, she was placed in the arms of the great fay giantess who ruled those halls. "I've got you now!" said the giantess, "I'm going to hold you as tight and as close as vine on tree, forever more!" Certainly in a pickle, the young woman considered her dire situation and simply replied, "I wish it was shit you were holding." The fay giantess was so completely appalled and disgusted by the coarse manner of the young woman that she let her go immediately and had her taken back to her home.

Not only do I find this really funny, I enjoy the fact that even centuries ago, the forthright manner and direct problem solving of Scottish women was well established.

[allseeingmurph]

Ariadne, the Minotaur, and Phaedra—probably didn’t have the best sibling relationship, all things considered.

[thefugitivesaint]

Frank Godwin (1889-1959), ''King Arthur and His Knights'' complied and edited by Elizabeth Lodor Merchant, 1927 Source

[queer-ragnelle]

Beginner’s Guide to Medieval Arthuriana

Just starting out at a loss for where to begin?

Here’s a guide for introductory Medieval texts and informational resources ordered from most newbie friendly to complex. Guidebooks and encyclopedias are listed last.

All PDFs link to my Google drive and can be found on my blog. This post will be updated as needed.

Pre-Existing Resources

Hi-Lo Arthuriana

♡ Loathly Lady Master Post ♡

Medieval Literature by Language

Retellings by Date

Films by Date

TV Shows by Date

Documentaries by Date

Arthurian Preservation Project

The Camelot Project

If this guide was helpful for you, please consider supporting me on Ko-Fi!

Medieval Literature

Page (No Knowledge Required)

The Vulgate Cycle | Navigation Guide | Vulgate Reader

The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle

The Marriage of Sir Gawain

Sir Gawain and The Green Knight

The Welsh Triads

Le Morte d'Arthur by Sir Thomas Malory

Squire (Base Knowledge Recommended)

The Mabinogion

Four Arthurian Romances by Chrétien de Troyes

King Artus | scan by @jewishlancelot

Morien

Knight (Extensive Knowledge Recommended)

The History of The King's of Britain by Geoffrey of Monmouth

Alliterative Morte

Here Be Dragons (Weird or Arthurian Adjacent)

The Crop-Eared Dog

Perceforest | A Perceforest Reader | PDF courtesy of @sickfreaksirkay

Wigalois | Vidvilt

Guingamor, Lanval, Tyolet, & Bisclarevet by Marie of France

The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer

Grail Quest

Peredur (The Mabinogion)

The Story of the Grail + 4 Continuations by Chrétien de Troyes

Parzival by Wolfram von Eschenbach

The Crown by Heinrich von dem Türlin (Diu Crône)

The High Book of The Grail (Perlesvaus)

The History of The Holy Grail (Vulgate)

The Quest for The Holy Grail Part I (Post-Vulgate)

The Quest for The Holy Grail Part II (Post-Vulgate)

Merlin and The Grail by Robert de Boron

The Legend of The Grail | PDF courtesy of @sickfreaksirkay

Lancelot Texts

Knight of The Cart by Chretien de Troyes

Lanzelet by Ulrich von Zatzikhoven

Spanish Lancelot Ballads

Gawain Texts

Sir Gawain and The Green Knight

The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle

The Marriage of Sir Gawain

Sir Gawain and The Lady of Lys

The Knight of The Two Swords

The Turk and Sir Gawain

Perilous Graveyard | scan by @jewishlancelot

Tristan/Isolde Texts

Béroul & Les Folies

Prose Tristan (The Camelot Project)

Tristan and The Round Table (La Tavola Ritonda) | Italian Name Guide

The Romance of Tristan

Tristan and Iseult by Gottfried von Strassburg

Byelorussian Tristan

Educational/Informational Resources

Encyclopedias & Handbooks

Warriors of Arthur by John Matthews, Bob Stewart, & Richard Hook

The Arthurian Companion by Phyllis Ann Karr

The New Arthurian Encyclopedia by Norris J. Lacy

The Arthurian Handbook by Norris J. Lacy & Geoffrey Ashe

The Arthurian Name Dictionary by Christopher W. Bruce

Essays & Guides

A Companion to Chrétien de Troyes edited by Joan Tasker & Norris J. Lacy

A Companion to Malory edited by Elizabeth Archibald

A Companion to The Lancelot-Grail Cycle edited by Carol Dover

Arthur in Welsh Medieval Literature by O. J. Padel

Diu Crône and The Medieval Arthurian Cycle by Neil Thomas

Wirnt von Gravenberg's Wigalois: Intertextuality & Interpretation by Neil Thomas

The Legend of Sir Lancelot du Lac by Jessie Weston

The Legend of Sir Gawain by Jessie Weston

[airitree]

🌊Woman & Sealskin🌊