#music snob

[phantomoftheorpheum]

this might be controversial, but I'd rather be forced to talk to a pretentious film snob over a pretentious music snob any day.

[vintage-tigre]

[bandomfandombeyond]

for the last fucking time, 35 minutes is NOT an album

[catofthenine]

Hey ghouls!

I thought that making a non-introductory post would help solidify what I got goin here.

I think that the first things that I want to cover are my definitions, values and other miscellaneous junk, so that my coming posts are more cohesive. I do not claim to be someone who knows everything or makes the "rules of goth", I just form my opinions and claims based on what I see. I love taking part in friendly discussion, as well as hearing critique on my ideas! I've decided to cover "What makes someone goth" today, because I think it is what defines the subculture! *This is SO long! I'll provide a TLDR at the bottom, as well as try and organize each piece of thought!

What I think makes you goth! : I think that many factors come into play within considering oneself apart of the gothic community. This may be super controversial! But please, make sure you read my argument! If you pick it apart I don't mind, but please don't throw baseless accusations at me!

There's a common argument going around places like Instagram and Tiktok, where, the only factor in consideration is "Well, Do you listen to the music?" and, I think that's a really dim view on the community as a whole . Gothic Rock, Deathrock, Darkwave, Post punk, Horrorpunk, Gothibilly, etc. are all excellent music genres, and there's such a vast range of what constitutes as "Goth Music" that I don't think someone can say that they just don't like it! But nevertheless, I don't think it is the only factor in considering oneself goth, gothic, vampiric, etc. (Holy hell, that's a ton of micro labels.)

On Literature

The gothic subculture has roots back to the 1700s, as the first gothic literature by Horace Walpole, Castle of Otranto (1765), was published (Britannica). Britannica has an excellent article about Gothic fiction and if anybody is interested, I'll link it below! Other popular fictions are Dracula by Bram Stoker, Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, and Carmilla by Sheridan Le Fanu. (Books are expensive, and I'd like to read more from the genre, but between cost and time, these are the only one's I've read.)

*The article on Castle of Otranto, however, mentions s*xual assault, so please! Take care of yourself!

Gothic fiction and literature are super duper old, and the emergence of gothic fiction, especially around the 1850s, was what I believe to be the first inklings of the gothic subculture. People's ideas are ever evolving, individually, but over lifetimes as well!

There's a very interesting book by Maisha L. Wester, called African American Gothic: Screams from Shadowed Places (2012), I have not read this book, as it costs like a 100 dollars! I did check it out from the library but was too afraid of ruining it to touch it, Haha! I did manage to find the introduction on link springer, but I don't want to pirate the book because I'd love for the author to be able to get paid for the work she's done.

According to it's introduction, African American Gothic: Screams from Shadowed Places (2012) argues that so much media surrounding racism (historical fiction, historical biography, etc) is in fact applicable to gothic media (Horror, Literature, etc), but because it depicts horrors towards black bodies, critics deem it "less scary", or "too realistic" to be considered "applicable".

*Because I haven't read African American Gothic: Screams from Shadowed Places (2012), I am unable to give full context for it!

**IT IS extremely important to include black views and opinions for what makes something gothic, I'm not sure if Wester argued for inclusion in the subculture itself, or just the literary inclusion, but the literature is EXTREMELY important to consider in foundational gothic media, and so I believe Wester's argument for inclusion is something we must all consider when discussing gothic media!

On Fashion

This is an incredibly touchy subject at the moment. I think everyone has different views on the "gothic fashion vs. goth subculture" online argument. Fashion is an expressive outlet for many in the gothic subculture, and I include makeup and clothing as apart of this.

In my opinion, it's not black and white! While I do not think our desire to look cool comes before those who work in sweatshops, plus size and disabled people deserve clothing that they like! It's no secret that plus-sized individuals have a difficult time finding clothing they can wear, and brands like Shein, Romwe, and Cider, all accommodate that. Disabled people who have difficulty leaving their homes, whether it be issues that impact their energy, mobility, or something else, also need clothing to wear! There really is no difference between wearing something gothic vs wearing something basic from these websites, and so while I appreciate the sentiment "Goths don't support fast fashion", there's no possible way to make this a monolithic idea within this specific part of the subculture.

Some people will also accuse others of being classist within this topic. I think it is SO important to remember these few things:

You do not have to be goth! You also do not have to dress gothic to be goth!

There is a set of values that comes with being apart of the subculture! This is like, one of the only necessary factors I consider for members of the subculture.

IMPORTANT! So many baby bats I see are very nervous about not looking "goth enough", and not having as big of a gothic wardrobe as other people. REMEMBER! Most gothic wardrobes are curated over long lengths of time, and anything black can be made into a goth fit!

But this isn't to say that if you are poor, that you do not deserve nice clothes, or new things! I myself have been known to commit the sin of shopping on amazon! I just wanted to put this tidbit in to encourage others to not feel the need to overconsume fast fashion to fit into the community.

All that being said, I do not think fashion alone is enough to consider yourself Goth. I've seen people create a distinction between goth and gothic, and that honestly sounds like a nice way to say poser.

In the past, if you did not listen to the music, share the values, but enjoyed the aesthetic, you were seen as a poser. This got so extreme that people began to anti-label themselves! (I believe this was circa 2000s, with the emergence of emo and scene in prominent media), People would avoid labeling themselves anything at all, There's an interview of Avril Lavigne saying that calling yourself punk is the least punk thing to do, which is now totally clowned on...

... But my point here, is that as many people online who have been alternative for a very long time, seeing another alternative person cemented a feeling of community, as shared interests and values were likely.

On Values

This is so very very long already!

Alternative subcultural values are not monolithic. Metalheads, goths, punks, emos, etc. all have different values, takes, opinions etc. Please do not ask me the difference between all of these, It'd be a super long answer, and I nor anybody actually cares about my opinion about that.

That being said, gothic values and punk values are almost one in the same. I feel that it depends on the type of goth you are, but it is not outlandish to expect every goth to be against capitalism and anti fascist.

A seemingly small portion of goths say that veganism or vegetarianism is necessary, but I really think that's extreme. Necessary veganism/vegetarianism is also anti-indigenous, classist and ableist.

* I do not want to get into a debate on veganism. It is off topic.

Something that I used to see everywhere for a main criteria, is also knowing goth history! This is very important to be able to provide context on why things are the way they are, as well as rules/regulations, as well as understanding the modern gothic movement.

^(I consider this to be Bauhaus' Bela Lugosi's Dead (1979) onward, although many consider The Doors to be the first gothic rock band, and many other influences between The Doors and Bauhaus arose as well. I'll get into this later, maybe my opinion will change after more research is concluded)

Conclusion

That was a lot! Please remember that this is just my opinion, and while i am open to pleasant conversation and critique, I wont respond to anyone unkind and inflexible, and depending on the severity, I may block you! It is not out of hate or spite, but this blog is something I consider to be a safe space, and home to one of my biggest passions.

I think that I could speak more about each topic individually, but I also go outside, and don't want to get caught up in things that do not matter.

I do want to cover history as well! Maybe Vampira, Elvira, and Etcetera!

TLDR:

IMO, The factors that would make somebody goth, are not concentrated to just taste in music! The gothic subculture is not just a music fanbase! Enjoying media such as horror literature and movies, listening to music, dressing up, expressing yourself are all large components in what make up the culture, and between being a horror fan (for ex.) vs. being a goth overlaps in so many areas!

The takeaway I hope that is received is, be open minded. Gatekeeping is necessary to keep the subculture the subculture, but I don't think that it's as rigid as many people think it is.

Song Recommendation: Stigmata Martyr

I wanted to put a Bauhaus song, but I figured since I already linked Bela Lugosi's Dead, it would be redundant. Also it's likely that SO many of anyone who sees this will already know Bauhaus.

Thank you for reading!!

-Cat (They/Them)

(Catofthenine)

[lumpyflakycum]

It is necessary, I believe, for the development of a healthy intellect to have a handful of enjoyable electro-swing (or similar genres such as electro-big band/dark cabaret)songs on one's playlist. This ensures the culling of hubris and anxiety. My superfluous and extreme amounts of pride and confidence are only called misplaced because the populace does not accept it otherwise. I used to think I was great, but I hid myself. Now, my dears, I know i am glorious, and am certain of the fact. Yes, I may be standing upon the shoulders of giants, but only with the knowledge and premonition that others shall stand upon mine.

[afewrandomthoughts]

The only correct answer to the question “What is the best decade for music?” Is:

This One.

In my hand I have instant access to a larger catalog of music than at any previous time.

I have access to footage of legendary concerts, and livestreams of performances that previous generations would have needed passports to attend. Or time machines.

Within seconds I could access sheet music for millions of compositions.

Music lessons are available 24/7. Sometimes free.

And I can buy music I like from the artists without having to pay the middles.

[noahsarchipelago]

Today’s comic, in which Ursula’s music snob is showing.

To be fair, nothing makes something uncool faster than enthusiastic parental approval.

[wedontrhyme]

I'm embarrassed to admit how many times I have searched for and repeatedly looked at a guys Spotify 'cause I was interested in him.

Like I've genuinely giggled looking at a guys playlist because he listened to Radiohead

[bear997]

This!!!! As a perpetual choir kid and admittedly a bit of a choral music snob, I will not sing for choirs that are not audition, and EVERY member needs to be up to snuff AND willing to listen/improve/learn/grow. Sight-reading skills are a must! Large ranges are also very important. HIGH-QUALITY/INTENSITY DICTION IS LIFE!!! Having a strong sense of proper phrasing and musicality is also a must. Ah, how I miss choral singing… next year when life hopefully slows down a little more I plan on joining one again… either that or a barbershop quartet.. how I miss those too!! 😭

[enemy-to-the-state]

"omg this music is so underground and alternative" y'all can't even handle one song without trap drums

[bobbie-robron]

You couldn’t just like Coldplay like any normal person.

Bonus (you knew this was coming, right?):

23-Jan-2018

[mbrainspaz]

ugh. Country music? That manufactured drivel? Not for me.

...

the song that's been stuck in my head for 48 hours:

[ineedanameineedaname]

I don't trust "music people" who are into everything. To me, those two ideas don't go together. How can you be really passionate about consuming music if you don't do it discerningly? I have a friend like this, who is in the music industry (sort of), and I understand music critics to be like this, but they have to in order to hang within the industry. If you're just a fan or like I said, passionate about the process, how can you get excited about every band and genre? I don't trust it.

[somethingaboutvampires]

When a music snob insists you don't know a song after you tell them you know every song by that band and they say that's improbable and play you one of the band's most famous songs.

[beautsentences]

"It is hard to say when exactly this haughty farce came to an end and my current sensibility set in, a sensibility that declares, quite simply, that all music, insofar as it is music, is good. Nirvana is good, Santana is good, and Kylie Minogue is good when you’re in the back of a taxi at night in Baku (for example). It’s all good, for it all comes down to us from a higher world."

Justin E. H. Smith

[afewrandomthoughts]

I’m not a fan of “The Wall”. It’s well made and well played. As a songwriting achievement, musical composition, and demonstration of top notch musical production, it was unparalleled in its time.

But I don’t enjoy listening to it. Most of the tracks are nothing I would go out of my way to hear. The “singles”: Young Lust, Run Like Hell, Another Brick (pt. 2), Hey You, Mother, & Comfortably Numb; are alright as standalones but are better within the context of the whole album.

Quite the conundrum.

This brings me to the song of the day. And a PSA from your karaoke host:

Karaoke should be fun! Ability is nice, but a fun and friendly attitude can work, too.

Friends do not let friends sing this song at karaoke.

I know it’s late. You’ve had just enough to remind everyone why interaction with you is best kept confined to the bar. And you will. On the microphone for six and a half minutes.

The crowd hears your name, looks at the time and heads for 🚽 or outside for 🚬. Why?

It’s overplayed, and that makes it even worse to hear, because it’s not a fun song.

Even if you Could do it.

PSA ENDS

It’s almost the whole album condensed into one song: a cry for release from self imposed isolation.

“Comfortably Numb” by Pink Floyd