Hey ghouls!
I thought that making a non-introductory post would help solidify what I got goin here.
I think that the first things that I want to cover are my definitions, values and other miscellaneous junk, so that my coming posts are more cohesive. I do not claim to be someone who knows everything or makes the "rules of goth", I just form my opinions and claims based on what I see. I love taking part in friendly discussion, as well as hearing critique on my ideas! I've decided to cover "What makes someone goth" today, because I think it is what defines the subculture! *This is SO long! I'll provide a TLDR at the bottom, as well as try and organize each piece of thought!
What I think makes you goth! : I think that many factors come into play within considering oneself apart of the gothic community. This may be super controversial! But please, make sure you read my argument! If you pick it apart I don't mind, but please don't throw baseless accusations at me!
There's a common argument going around places like Instagram and Tiktok, where, the only factor in consideration is "Well, Do you listen to the music?" and, I think that's a really dim view on the community as a whole . Gothic Rock, Deathrock, Darkwave, Post punk, Horrorpunk, Gothibilly, etc. are all excellent music genres, and there's such a vast range of what constitutes as "Goth Music" that I don't think someone can say that they just don't like it! But nevertheless, I don't think it is the only factor in considering oneself goth, gothic, vampiric, etc. (Holy hell, that's a ton of micro labels.)
On Literature
The gothic subculture has roots back to the 1700s, as the first gothic literature by Horace Walpole, Castle of Otranto (1765), was published (Britannica). Britannica has an excellent article about Gothic fiction and if anybody is interested, I'll link it below! Other popular fictions are Dracula by Bram Stoker, Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, and Carmilla by Sheridan Le Fanu. (Books are expensive, and I'd like to read more from the genre, but between cost and time, these are the only one's I've read.)
*The article on Castle of Otranto, however, mentions s*xual assault, so please! Take care of yourself!
Gothic fiction and literature are super duper old, and the emergence of gothic fiction, especially around the 1850s, was what I believe to be the first inklings of the gothic subculture. People's ideas are ever evolving, individually, but over lifetimes as well!
There's a very interesting book by Maisha L. Wester, called African American Gothic: Screams from Shadowed Places (2012), I have not read this book, as it costs like a 100 dollars! I did check it out from the library but was too afraid of ruining it to touch it, Haha! I did manage to find the introduction on link springer, but I don't want to pirate the book because I'd love for the author to be able to get paid for the work she's done.
According to it's introduction, African American Gothic: Screams from Shadowed Places (2012) argues that so much media surrounding racism (historical fiction, historical biography, etc) is in fact applicable to gothic media (Horror, Literature, etc), but because it depicts horrors towards black bodies, critics deem it "less scary", or "too realistic" to be considered "applicable".
*Because I haven't read African American Gothic: Screams from Shadowed Places (2012), I am unable to give full context for it!
**IT IS extremely important to include black views and opinions for what makes something gothic, I'm not sure if Wester argued for inclusion in the subculture itself, or just the literary inclusion, but the literature is EXTREMELY important to consider in foundational gothic media, and so I believe Wester's argument for inclusion is something we must all consider when discussing gothic media!
On Fashion
This is an incredibly touchy subject at the moment. I think everyone has different views on the "gothic fashion vs. goth subculture" online argument. Fashion is an expressive outlet for many in the gothic subculture, and I include makeup and clothing as apart of this.
In my opinion, it's not black and white! While I do not think our desire to look cool comes before those who work in sweatshops, plus size and disabled people deserve clothing that they like! It's no secret that plus-sized individuals have a difficult time finding clothing they can wear, and brands like Shein, Romwe, and Cider, all accommodate that. Disabled people who have difficulty leaving their homes, whether it be issues that impact their energy, mobility, or something else, also need clothing to wear! There really is no difference between wearing something gothic vs wearing something basic from these websites, and so while I appreciate the sentiment "Goths don't support fast fashion", there's no possible way to make this a monolithic idea within this specific part of the subculture.
Some people will also accuse others of being classist within this topic. I think it is SO important to remember these few things:
You do not have to be goth! You also do not have to dress gothic to be goth!
There is a set of values that comes with being apart of the subculture! This is like, one of the only necessary factors I consider for members of the subculture.
IMPORTANT! So many baby bats I see are very nervous about not looking "goth enough", and not having as big of a gothic wardrobe as other people. REMEMBER! Most gothic wardrobes are curated over long lengths of time, and anything black can be made into a goth fit!
But this isn't to say that if you are poor, that you do not deserve nice clothes, or new things! I myself have been known to commit the sin of shopping on amazon! I just wanted to put this tidbit in to encourage others to not feel the need to overconsume fast fashion to fit into the community.
All that being said, I do not think fashion alone is enough to consider yourself Goth. I've seen people create a distinction between goth and gothic, and that honestly sounds like a nice way to say poser.
In the past, if you did not listen to the music, share the values, but enjoyed the aesthetic, you were seen as a poser. This got so extreme that people began to anti-label themselves! (I believe this was circa 2000s, with the emergence of emo and scene in prominent media), People would avoid labeling themselves anything at all, There's an interview of Avril Lavigne saying that calling yourself punk is the least punk thing to do, which is now totally clowned on...
... But my point here, is that as many people online who have been alternative for a very long time, seeing another alternative person cemented a feeling of community, as shared interests and values were likely.
On Values
This is so very very long already!
Alternative subcultural values are not monolithic. Metalheads, goths, punks, emos, etc. all have different values, takes, opinions etc. Please do not ask me the difference between all of these, It'd be a super long answer, and I nor anybody actually cares about my opinion about that.
That being said, gothic values and punk values are almost one in the same. I feel that it depends on the type of goth you are, but it is not outlandish to expect every goth to be against capitalism and anti fascist.
A seemingly small portion of goths say that veganism or vegetarianism is necessary, but I really think that's extreme. Necessary veganism/vegetarianism is also anti-indigenous, classist and ableist.
* I do not want to get into a debate on veganism. It is off topic.
Something that I used to see everywhere for a main criteria, is also knowing goth history! This is very important to be able to provide context on why things are the way they are, as well as rules/regulations, as well as understanding the modern gothic movement.
^(I consider this to be Bauhaus' Bela Lugosi's Dead (1979) onward, although many consider The Doors to be the first gothic rock band, and many other influences between The Doors and Bauhaus arose as well. I'll get into this later, maybe my opinion will change after more research is concluded)
Conclusion
That was a lot! Please remember that this is just my opinion, and while i am open to pleasant conversation and critique, I wont respond to anyone unkind and inflexible, and depending on the severity, I may block you! It is not out of hate or spite, but this blog is something I consider to be a safe space, and home to one of my biggest passions.
I think that I could speak more about each topic individually, but I also go outside, and don't want to get caught up in things that do not matter.
I do want to cover history as well! Maybe Vampira, Elvira, and Etcetera!
TLDR:
IMO, The factors that would make somebody goth, are not concentrated to just taste in music! The gothic subculture is not just a music fanbase! Enjoying media such as horror literature and movies, listening to music, dressing up, expressing yourself are all large components in what make up the culture, and between being a horror fan (for ex.) vs. being a goth overlaps in so many areas!
The takeaway I hope that is received is, be open minded. Gatekeeping is necessary to keep the subculture the subculture, but I don't think that it's as rigid as many people think it is.
Song Recommendation: Stigmata Martyr
I wanted to put a Bauhaus song, but I figured since I already linked Bela Lugosi's Dead, it would be redundant. Also it's likely that SO many of anyone who sees this will already know Bauhaus.
Thank you for reading!!
-Cat (They/Them)
(Catofthenine)
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I’m not a fan of “The Wall”. It’s well made and well played. As a songwriting achievement, musical composition, and demonstration of top notch musical production, it was unparalleled in its time.
But I don’t enjoy listening to it. Most of the tracks are nothing I would go out of my way to hear. The “singles”: Young Lust, Run Like Hell, Another Brick (pt. 2), Hey You, Mother, & Comfortably Numb; are alright as standalones but are better within the context of the whole album.
Quite the conundrum.
This brings me to the song of the day. And a PSA from your karaoke host:
Karaoke should be fun! Ability is nice, but a fun and friendly attitude can work, too.
Friends do not let friends sing this song at karaoke.
I know it’s late. You’ve had just enough to remind everyone why interaction with you is best kept confined to the bar. And you will. On the microphone for six and a half minutes.
The crowd hears your name, looks at the time and heads for 🚽 or outside for 🚬. Why?
It’s overplayed, and that makes it even worse to hear, because it’s not a fun song.
Even if you Could do it.
PSA ENDS
It’s almost the whole album condensed into one song: a cry for release from self imposed isolation.
“Comfortably Numb” by Pink Floyd
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