#ml season 5 speculation

[monpetitchattriste]

At last my dreams have come along

[steelblaidd]

ML Short Takes: Wonder Kagami

I love Kagami.

She is a wonderful character.

But I have been wondering something over the years.

The Tsurugi family crest seems a little phoned in as its only the Kanji for female with a sword overlayed on it.

But then I was watching the scene in pretension when she has to hand over her ring.

The ring that it's pretty certain holds her amok.

The ring that is also her family crest.

And I remembered that Astruc and the rest of the writers are up on their knowledge of superheroes. And I remembered that out side her mother we the only onther member of her family we know about is Ikari Gozen, famous female samurai.

And I remembered a classic DC hero that also comes from a long line of warrior women.

It doesn't get brought up much but an important piece of her back story is that she was created from clay and given life directly by the Goddesses of Olympus in response to Hypolita's desperate desire for a child.

She is in effect a sentibeing.

And I wonder.

How long has this ben true in the Tsurugi household.

How long has it been a family of only women, daughters called forth by their mothers' desires?

Where has the peacock been these last 200 years?

[ijustliketoreadstuff]

My personal head canon: The world inside the miracle box will become the secret lair for the miraculous team, I mean just look at it, all mystical and junk, with added junk to double as furniture and decor.

[steelblaidd]

Some very interesting things here. I really want to know what Zoe has to say to her Sister. She is obviously settling into being a hero on both sides of the mask. Lila sure seams pleased with this outcome as well.

The new angle on Nathalie's room is fascinating. It looks like it's been hers for a long time. One sided Nathalie/Emilie is also looking more and more likely.

The fact that Monarch is going to try and retrieve the Miraculous personally is even more interesting.

He is feeling really confident here and that he fails is another thing encouraging his increasing stress and desperation in the second half of the season.

It was just released the teaser of Deflagration (Kwamis Choice Part 2)

[fortuna-et-cataclysmos]

In defense of s5 finale

I hear and see a lot of people expressing dislike of the season finale, some also in the tags and comments of my analysis/speculation posts. So I wanted to further expand on this.

Gabriel's victory -being remembered a hero despite everything wrong he did, especially abuse to Adrien- has left a sour taste in many people's mouth; many blaming the scenarists and not shying away from calling it "bad writing."

But I think that that was exactly what the scenarists wanted to do? The perfect world Gabriel leaves behind is unsettling, unfair, and I think that the creators have done their best to show that implicitly but clearly. I think that we are supposed to be irked by the finale.

Why do I think that? Because there were a lot of small things that gave the message that, as @emsylcatac iconically put it, "this is the bad place." I touched upon some of those in my previous post on how this was a victory for Gabriel and Lila, and a defeat for Ladybug. I'll try to list them more clearly here.

Gabriel a hero

This is the one thing everyone has the most problem with. At the end, Gabriel was declared the hero who gave his life to defeat the Monarch, who was none other than himself. Some artistic choices here are so over the top that I believe they were specifically made to irk us.

If the silver statue itself wasn't enough, the exact quote of Caline Bustier is:

All the rings that have been highjacked by the Monarch have been recycled into a statue in honour of the great Gabriel Agreste.

Then Tsurugi Tomoe goes on to say:

Beyond the visionary entrepreneur and genius creator that he was, we are celebrating a hero today.

See, everything bad about Gabriel has been flipped. If you count literally exploiting people visionary entrepreneurship, sure, he was that. And genius? He couldn't get the miraculouses of two teenagers for an entire year despite having all the resources, and he ended up succeeding only with the help of another extremely powerful person (Tsurugi Tomoe) and even then he ended up dying himself.

As of creator, he was literally a destructor. He destroyed Paris more times than anyone can count, and everything was fixed every time only thanks to Ladybug. Let's not also forget how he destroyed the Miraculouses to exploit their power.

Adrien's comment about his father

This is another thing many people have had problem with. It is so outrageous that I won't believe the creators would expect us to take at face value.

At the end, Adrien acknowledges that his father died to take down the Monarch, and says:

I don't know if one day I'll manage to become like him.

Lo and behold, the man who had emotionally neglected and abused his son to no end has turned into the said son's hero and role model. Adrien not only looks up to him, but also wants to make an active effort to become like him. Hell, he even doubts if he can be as good as him.

No way this line can taken at face value. There are many children's shows with abusive parental figures nowadays (like She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, the Owl House) that have all handled the conclusion to that abuse generally well. The watchers' expectations are high in this respect; the scenarists would know that such conclusion, if not ironic, would not satiate the expectations of the spectators.

Lack of accountability: Gabriel and Tomoe

As many many people have pointed out, the general lack of accountability in this season finale is infuriating. So Gabriel mentally tortured THE ENTIRE WORLD POPULATION and not only never faced consequences in life, but also is remembered as a hero in death?

What about Tomoe?

Not only she has not faced any repercussion for being basically a supervillain, but also she is still a respected public figure who can go and make a speech backed by the mayor, in front of the freaking French flag. If that doesn't irk you, I don't know what will.

Worse is that, she goes as far as saying in her speech that:

I'll make sure to continue his legacy.

So she'll continue to be evil. Great hint that she'll continue being an antagonist in season 6.

As you can see, the new world that has been created is extremely unfair and problematic. No way this can be "the good place," an actual "happy ending."

Everything is fixed! No problems anymore!

Also, you'd realise that the world is perfect, a little too perfect. It is like a green utopian dream.

Caline Bustier has been the mayor "only for a few weeks" (direct quote from the episode), and she has already fixed all the problems possible in Paris. Not only that, she has also solved inequality and class struggle (again, mentioned by herself). Let's make Caline the President of the World already.

Funny that LITERALLY ALL THE PROBLEMS of a city could be solved, while the exact same episode showed Majestia, the freaking Supergirl of the ML universe, acknowledged in her nightmare that:

Even with all my superpowers, I'll never manage to solve all the problems of the world.

Well, Bustier says that she has no superpower, that people working together can accomplish that. Kudos to her and her democratic spirit. But like, perfect city in a few weeks? Even Mayor Bourgeois who wanted to send all the trash of Paris to space would realise that that's impossible.

There is no perfect solution, yet the world is perfect

Ladybug acknowledges that there is no perfect solution to Gabriel's situation. Trying to bring back his wife, he has caused irreparable damage to himself and to Nathalie, effectively leaving Adrien an orphan. He still hopes that Ladybug can fix it all. But she can't because of the nature of the wish: for one thing gained, another thing should be lost. In Ladybug's words:

There is no perfect wish. Every time a power is used for personal gain, it causes catastrophes. (...) We'll find a solution, but it will never be as perfect as one would wish.

Interesting, given that the world ends up being completely perfect?

All the problems are solved, literally everyone is happy, Marinette and Adrien are finally together. But the wish was made for personal gain, no? So where are the consequences? Where is equivalent exchange? The catastrophe, the price of the perfect, green, just world? I think we'll see that in season 6.

The dream world

The new world is seriously giving me weird vibes. Like it is a movie set. For those who have watched The Good Place, you'd know how in the town everything feels a bit too bright, artificial, perfect. I get the same vibes from the post-wish world.

The Agreste mansion is covered by green vines?? Way to hide the atrocities that were planned and happened here.

Here is a screengrab I found on the internet from The Good Place (the ladybug is a funny coincidence lol)

I am getting the exact same vibes!

Also, I have expanded on that in my post on "running out of time" theme, but basically in the ML universe usually the "real" stuff are associated with the night and the rain while things that happen in the sun turn out to be fake or erased/forgotten. So the feeling that I get from this finale is that, this new "perfect" world is not genuine; that the seeming happiness it brings will be soon destroyed (I doubt erased), just as it happened in other fake reality episodes like Chat Blanc, Ephemeral, Oblivio, or Jubilation. As I argued before, this is not a permanent victory. Hell, it isn't even a real victory, not with the secret Marinette is left to keep from Adrien.

Not a real victory

Another thing that makes me think that this ending is not genuine is the lack of Chat Noir in the finale. Yes, I am a fervent Ladynoir stan who was hoping for some Ladynoir action (if not reveal) and was hugely disappointed by the lack of Chat's engagement in the final fight, but now that I think of it, this may have been on purpose.

Notice how in Conformation, Ladybug says:

Our only way to win against him is to fight him together.

And yet, soon thereafter, she is catapulted into a fight with the Monarch.

Notice also it wasn't her choice to unify the miraculouses and face the Monarch alone. She had to, because Chat Noir wasn't there.

Let's remember that this show spent the entire season 4 explaining how Ladybug assuming all the responsibility alone leads to disaster, how she needs Chat Noir to share the burden with him.

Let's also remember how in season 5, especially at the beginning of it, we see Ladybug change her behaviour towards Chat Noir: she gives him more responsibilities (the Bunny Miraculous, the identity of certain holders if I am not mistaken), and how at one point she confesses that Chat Noir has been very serious and responsible lately (and then promptly develops a crush on him).

So taking on the Monarch herself is really against everything they have built up in season 4 and the beginning of season 5. That's why I think that this "victory" is so wrong: it was "won" only by Ladybug. Maybe if Chat Noir were there, he would have prevented the Monarch from making the wish (hypothetically, then we would have an entirely different timeline). If his identity were revealed the way Marinette's was, Gabriel could have controlled him through his amok. In any case, their defeat or victory would have looked very different from this.

In the end, we must remember that this world is far from being a victory for Ladybug: she has, after all, LOST. She couldn't stop Gabriel from making the wish. And while this world looks perfect, and we got what seems like a forever happy after ending for Adrinette, their happiness is set in a non-genuine victory and world.

So I think we shouldn't be angry with the show-runners: there is a reason why this ending feels and is wrong. If it were all wonderful, it wouldn't be the season finale. It would be the finale, period. And I believe that everything that has been disturbing us in this season finale will be addressed, if not consist of the core conflict of season 6. Let's all take a deep breath and turn to fan fiction or fan art till we get the new season now :) (at least that's what I'll do lol)

[pisoprano]

(Please don’t discourse on this post, this poll is just for fun)

[lukaslosteyelashes]

Some thoughts on the trailers of Miraculous London

We don't have much time left until Miraculous World: London - At the Edge of Time premiere so I decided to write out everything about it that's in my mind so maybe that “some thoughts” is gonna be a little bit longer.

Anyways, here it comes!

First I’d like to start it from the middle and talk about the guy with the clock on their forehead

This is the person that concerns me the most.

At first glance, this person clearly has a power that associates with time. They have a giant clock on their forehead and pretty much all over their costume and might be able to jump in time as well.

Now let's take a look at this shot:

Look at their left hand. It looks like they're holding something, something thin, it looks like it's either a tablet or a notebook. It also seems like they have a pen or something similar in their right hand.

Could it be that it's the same notebook where it's written in that Ladybug = Marinette Dupain-Cheng?

It's a mystery how long they have been lurking in the dark in the Agreste mansion's basement to gain what they needed. Did they just arrive, been there during the whole fight? Or maybe they've been here much longer than we could imagine. It seems this might be the moment when this person learns who's Paris's beloved heroine, they write it down then disappear to deliver the notebook into Lila's lair.

But where's Lila? She just leaves Nooro and the Butterfly Miraculous behind like that while someone breaks in her place to deliver crucial information. Is she in the toilet or something? She'll receive the notebook eventually but this whole setup looks very suspicious. It really looks like that stand got placed precisely there so that Clock Head (I will call them that from now on) could neatly place the notebook on it. And what are those boxes?

Now let's speculate where they might have gotten their powers.

The Rabbit Miraculous

This was the initial thought when there wasn't any trailer just leaks, after all the Rabbit Miraculous is able to give its users the ability to travel through different times. But after seeing how this dude uses their powers, that is they don't use the Burrow to travel in time, it got debunked right away, so there's no point in speculating over this anymore.

But we know that the two Bunnyx that we encountered so far possess three Rabbit Miraculous. One is used by mini Bunnyx, the other one is used by adult Bunnyx and the third one is the Kubdel family heirloom watch Alix got for her birthday. Now, it's possible that future Alix still uses the heirloom if they haven't fixed hers that was damaged by future Chat Noir. But either way, there are three Rabbit Miraculous that we saw and now there's someone who could use the third one: Marinette to become Chronobug. If she uses the third one that doesn't have an owner that we know about then neither present nor future Alix have to give up theirs for this.

And I'd like to use this point to speculate on where Marinette got her Ladybug Miraculous from.

The first thought was, she got it from her future self which seems eligible but after looking at the trailers for the 63637x time I have another theory on that.

Look at this scene from the French trailer:

This doesn't seem to fit in with everything that's happening. Why would Marinette put away her Miraculous? And why put it in a drawer? She's the Guardian, wouldn't it be more logical for her to put in the Miracle Box?

Unless, it's not present Marinette but her from the past. This whole scene looks pretty much alike with what happened in "Origins" when she first hesitated to use the Ladybug Miraculous because she didn't trust herself enough to become a superhero. Present Marinette using this particular part of her past to get a Miraculous seems valid since she didn't use it for a little while here and if she takes it, it will feel like it's just gone for a moment anyways.

So, she hops in with Bunnyx's help, takes her Miraculous then gets the third Rabbit Miraculous as well and then she can become Chronobug to save the World.

Akumatization

Clock Head's power coming from an Akuma seems more likely to be the case. Anyway, I'd like to use this opportunity to draw attention to this conversation between the Kwamis and Gabriel in "Destruction":

Gabriel to Orikko: You! You can grant me any power I want. You'll give me power to travel through time!

Orikko: No you're mistaken. Time travel is Fluff's power and I can't grant a power that already belongs to another Kwami.

Gabriel: Are you trying to deceive me?

Orikko: By all means, read the Grimoire again.

Sass: Each Kwami represents a concept and each concept can only exist once in the Universe.

...

It was a very interesting conversation. Orikko can't give the power of time travel to anyone because it already exists, if I understand correctly. But what about Nooroo? Timetagger is an Akumatized villain from the future who's able to travel through time. So it looks like, while Orikko is unable to grant powers that belong to other Kwamis Nooroo's ability can give those powers, or at least it's the case with time travel.

But what about what Sass said? "Each Kwami represents a concept and each concept can only exist once in the Universe." If each concept can only exist once wouldn't that mean the Akumatization also shouldn't be able to give the power of time travel since it belongs to another Kwami? Nooroo's and Orikko's abilities are clearly very different, but that doesn't mean that different rules should apply to them in the same Universe. Maybe I just missed something if that's the case, please inform me.

Anyhow, the Butterfly Miraculous's power gives very unique abilities to the Akumatized people and that might be the reason why it can also grant powers that already exist, because they're slightly different from each other.

But if that's the case why haven't we seen Gabriel use this; not giving the ability to travel through time with Orikko's power but using Nooroo's to give a different but still essentially the same ability to either to himself or to someone else? Or...wait...hmm...

We already witnessed episodes where someone from the future comes to either mess up things or to fix it, but we haven't seen someone from the past stirring up the present. I'm not necessarily saying that Gabriel has it in him to come up with such a plan and it wouldn't even make sense that Clock Head puts the notebook with the information into the lair of the next holder of the Butterfly Miraculous if they'd be Monarch's minion.

But what if the reason why Gabriel set Lila aside was because he looked into the future with a power given by an Akuma to either him or to someone else and discovered that the future Hawkmoth Timetagger mentioned is her. Or even better, what if Gabriel and future Lila are actually working together? That the whole sacrifice he made was actually just part of their plan alongside bringing Gabriel back eventually? Or past Gabriel and future Lila are competing with each other to see who's the better Hawkmoth? Okay, these scenarios are just products of my tired brain, let's move on.

Anyways, my final conclusion with Clock Head reverts back to the future (lol).

The above setup in Lila's lair is oddly specific as I mentioned before, as if she waited for the notebook to appear right there. I'm starting to doubt that Timetagger is the only Akumatized villain that was sent from the future. Why? Lila found out Hawkmoth's identity in a way that's unknown to us. It could be just a coincidence but for a show that makes a huge deal out of secret identities, the fact that she just knew somehow feels a little odd. I think the reason she was able to discover it is because her future self is occasionally sending minions to her. Timetagger was the first, as we know, she might have had a test run with him and slowly put together a plan to gain the Cat and Ladybug Miraculouses; and Clock Head too, is someone sent by future Lila and they're the part of the ultimate plan.

But who could they be?

I wouldn't dare to speculate on the gender of the character based on their figure since we all saw instances in Miraculous when that wasn't so obvious (I'm specifically talking about the New York special here) but i just want to put these three images beside each other.

Chat Noir and Aspik have slim enough frame like Clock Head has, and of course let's not forget about the similarities on Aspik's and Clock Head's masks. Also look at them legs on Chat Noir and Aspik and now look at them legs on Clock Head:

I've read some other theories before that also came to the conclusion that this is Baldrien, I mean Adrien and I can't really think of anyone else either. At the back of my mind there's still Lila as well tho and I will write about her more below.

We all know that Adrien was in London in his white room during the fight between Bug Noir and Monarch so there's no way he could be there at the end to write down Ladybug's identity into the notebook. Except, if it's future Adrien. He's actually a very easy target to Akumatization especially if the Butterfly Miraculous holder is aware of the fact that he's a Senti-being and targeted his Amok, the twin rings specifically. And he showed us multiple times how emotionally unstable he can be. Also, future Chat Noir damaging future Bunnyx's Miraculous was really just an accident? Plus, seeing an Akumatized Adrien could be a good trigger on why Marinette will never want to reveal the full truth to him. This is the only way I can also explain these two shots:

It looks like these scenes are in the London lab where Adrien and Kagami were held captives and no one really knows about that place and what went down there. So if Clock Head is Adrien from the future he could very well hide there since he knows about that location.

Either way, whoever are they, one thing I'm certain about is that this person will be the endgame, that after Chronobug defeats them at the right time and use her Lucky Charm that will mark the end of the special, since it was them in the first place who discovered Ladybug's identity.

Now let's see the other unknown dude.

I saw others call them Ghost Guy so I'll also call them that.

When I first read the synopsis I was very sceptical about the someone has stolen the Ladybug Miraculous while Marinette was asleep part. She's very wary especially after what happened with Felix. But now seeing that the person who steals the Miraculouses is having ghost-like abilities, I'm more convinced.

Ghost Guy probably read the notes the other dude left at Lila's lair, went to Marinette's room, stole all Miraculous, not just the Cat and Ladybug one then visited her lair again to deliver them and from the looks of it they also put them into those boxes that probably got prepared for that purpose.

I also have a feeling that the glowing blue light on their hands indicates when they're able to touch something even when they're transparent.

I saw some theories on who this person might be. I've read it's either Adrien or Lila, maybe Felix. I tried to make something out of the symbol that's on their chest, hopefully it has some connection to who could this be, however it doesn't ring any bell to me. If someone has any idea about this don't hesitate to share it.

For me Lila seems to be the most logical possibility. The only evidence I have that it's her is the sheer fact that this person is standing in Lila's lair right after they deliver the Miraculouses and put them in those carefully positioned boxes, near the notebook where their accomplice, who's supposedly from the future, wrote down who's Ladybug. Not a solid evidence with a bunch of holes; both of them could be working for her for all we know.

What about with the wish then?

The end of the synopsis said this: All that remains is to hope for one thing: that Ladybug succeeds in defeating her opponent, otherwise it will be the end of Ladybug for good.

Now this could be just a figure of speech to indicate that everything will be wiped out but why only mention Ladybug when the whole World is in danger? My theory is that based on that snip of the synopsis that the wish was for Ladybug to never exist. And that makes perfect sense if the one who will make the wish is Ghost Lila, since she despises Marinette and Ladybug to the core.

A little bit more about Lila

She was there at the Agreste Mansion when the battle happened between Bug Noir and Monarch.

I assume she was there to collect the Butterfly Miraculous which seems rather suspicious, like how did she know it will be lost in the rubble? Her future self told her? Anyway, the brooch probably was her top priority and didn't have time to look around or to sneak a peek when Bug Noir de-trasnformed. Not to mention she wasn't the only one who was there, Clock Head had to be there around the same time as her.

But here is the thing: when Clock Head brings the notebook to her lair, Nooroo with the Butterfly Miraculous and the whole set up was already there. Assuming that Lila has some help from the future, she can put those boxes and the stand beforehand, but she had to bring back Nooroo in record time. And I have two more theories regarding this.

The 1st one:

The lair that we see in the trailers is actually future Lila's place. Future Lila sent Clock Head (Adrien?) back in time to gain the information about Ladybug then they delivered the notebook to the future, then future Lila went as Ghost Guy to collect the Miraculouses from present Marinette and then made a wish. I have one problem with this theory: it completely removes present Lila from the picture; also what the lair looks like is the same as we saw before in the present.

The 2nd one:

I know that above I already kind of established the Clock Head is Adrien theory but I'd like to back down from that here and say it's actually Lila from the future. Future Lila went back in time to find out who's Ladybug, while present Lila collected the Butterfly Miraculous. In present Lila's lair she already set up the stand and the boxes because she got informations from her future self about a plan where she can get the Miraculouses from the Guardian. Present Lila went back to her lair in record time with the brooch, then future Lila brought the notebook which present Lila read. Present Lila then became Ghost Guy, went to Marinette's room fetched the Miraculouses then went back to her lair and after she carefully placed the Miraculouses, she made a wish with the Cat and Ladybug ones. My problem with this scenario is, it completely neglects Adrien, since here present and future Lila work together as the Clock Head and Ghost Guy. And why would she go to the London lab?

My last question remains, why are there only three boxes displayed on the desk? There are 15 Miraculous that got modified into rings. Maybe Ghost Guy put there those that they need and put away the ones that they think are useless. Or those are not even Miraculouses? We can't see them clearly in the picture after all.

And lastly, I'd like to talk about this scene from the season 5 finale

This scene was put at the very end of the last episode of season 5, after the pool scene, but we don't really know when it happened.

If the scenes are in chronological order then what happened there has nothing to do with the happenings in the London special since the London special is before the pool scene. And that seems more reasonable to me, since when she talks with Mr. Damocles via laptop it looks like he just moved from somewhere or to somewhere which requires some time to do; and from the moment he left his job to Monarch's attack I don't think that much time has passed for him to make so much progress in moving. And let's not forget that he's The Owl, he probably helped people after Monarch's defeat to get back on their feet and didn't have much time to talk about school with anyone for a while.

In any case, whether this scene is right after she gained the Butterfly Miraculous or after the pool one, I think it's one of her visitors from the future. Or maybe Gabriel from the past.

And this concludes my speculations. What do you think of all this?

[gale-gentlepenguin]

You know, bunnyx’s approach to things makes a lot of sense in retrospect.

Because she is preserving Her timeline.

Which involves a recreation of the universe.

That’s why she got involved in Chat Blanc cause his actions would have made her universe and timeline not exist. Cause he would have destroyed it

[steelblaidd]

It would be fun, and a little scary, if it wasn't magic that controlled Adrien.

I really hate it when people call me "in denial" or "on copium" whenever I have an alternative explanation for the SentiAdrien hints.

Yes, I know the most obvious explanation is that he's a sentimonster. I just like using my brain and being creative.

It's too obvious at this point, I think it would be interesting if it was a red herring.

[heidi891]

It’s Nathalie who owes Adrien the truth, not Ladybug

I’ve seen a lot of people believing that Adrien will be mad at Marinette/Ladybug in season 6 for lying to him about his father. I don’t agree with this speculation.

Firstly, Adrien cannot be angry at Marinette, because as far as he knows, she’s just a civilian who had nothing to do with Monarch. But his lack of knowledge may prove to be a blessing, because he may be able to talk to her about his struggles and emotions without turning into another Chat Blanc.

Secondly, Adrien knows that as Chat Noir he isn’t supposed to react too emotionally. If he does, he may accidentally reveal his true identity. I can see him distant for a short time, but not too long. What’s more, he may feel guilty that he wasn’t able to fight with her, that maybe his absence led to her mistake. His alleged lack of involvement in the Agreste drama may also prove to be a blessing, because he may be able to listen to her arguments and look at her with more sympathy. I think he will stand by her (but some of the other Miraculous holders may believe Lila’s revelations, as they did before, and turn against Ladybug).

Thirdly, it isn’t Ladybug’s responsibility to tell him the truth. Nathalie is right there. She’s an adult, his caregiver and someone who was directly involved in Hawk Moth’s actions. Her redemption arc isn’t over yet. It’s good that she became disillusioned with Gabriel and focused on Adrien instead, but her involvement shouldn’t be forgotten and ignored. She participated in Hawk Moth’s plans, she created Senti-Ladybug and relieved her of her existence killed her, she wore the wedding ring (which Adrien noticed). When he learns that he’s a Sentihuman and that his father was Hawk Moth, he will also know that Nathalie was Mayura who created many Sentimonsters without any respect for their lives. She should come clean about it before Adrien, she should admit what she did was wrong, apologise and promise she will never do that again.

I’m very interested in this plot nad their relationship.

[familyagrestefanblog]

So looking at s5 overall and "Representation" in particular I find it interesting that all the Sentichildren were seemingly created by their Peacock-parent out of an emotion specifically related to GABRIEL.

Adrien was created by Emilie from the emotion of her love for her husband.

Félix was created by Colt from the emotion of his jealousy against Gabriel.

And looking at "Pretention", "Emotion", "Protection" and "Intuition" in particular and the way Tomoe's parenting was shown in the past that Kagami always had to be BETTER than Adrien, I would say Kagami was most likely created from the emotion of Tomoe's superiority complex towards Gabriel.

And I do have to say, I find that checks out perfectly. When you take these specific emotions these three children were created from and treat the individual emotions as some sort of 'family background" they came from and were raised under

Then yeah, in my opinion it IS indeed very noticeable that Adrien, Kagami and Félix were created by / or raised under these specific emotions related to Gabriel by their Peacock-parents.

And it's interesting that in all three cases Adrien as Gabriel's son is the one to actually be stuck now with having to deal with all the (interpersonal) consequences of his father's sins and overall involvement in this, as apparently Gabriel is the character who is at the very core of everything in the Miraculous Story (which makes it very fitting that s5 is dedicated to him)

Adrien is paying for all of this father's/parents sins. Now if THAT isn't exactly what Emilie explicitly said she didn't wanted for Adrien and asked Nathalie to protect Adrien from behind her husbands back when Gabriel wouldnt listen

[starguardianniom]

Shadybug and Chloé

So I read that many people were peeved that Chloé Bourgeois got namedropped when Shadybug was ranting to Ladyfly about how she didn't have a good life and only knew pain and suffering at the ends of Chloé and well, I feel like it kinds of fit though?

Hear me out first before branding your pitchforks please.

In Shadybug and Claw Noir's world, Betterfly says that any forms of mutual aid is a CRIME.

So let's just say that probably shades some lights on why Shadybug is so angry and bitter and jealous of Ladybug, she has no one to turn to but her partner who tries to backstab her constantly and wouldn't mind killing her off without a second thought if she pushed her luck too much.

If helping someone else is a crime in their world, it would probably explain why Shadybug has no friends, the girl squad trying to comfort her back in Derision the year before and Socqueline standing up for her would probably get them in serious trouble and it wouldn't be with just Chloé, but probably the teachers and other students witnessing them help Emonette in any way.

No idea what would be the punishment, but most likely something they don't dare to try to chance it.

So they are not close to Emonette and don't befriend her, so she is really alone to face her bully.

Who is probably worse than the actual Chloé if there is really no one stopping her from making Emonette feeling even worse.

The Supreme being the main villain and not Gabriel changed some stuff in their world, and it starts with different laws and views on some things, and one of them is helping others in any way is seen as criminal.

Apparently being decent in that universe makes you a pariah or something like that.

That might also explains why Shadybug says she doesn't have a nice mom, her mom probably doesn't dare to do anything against her bullying, or even if she is maybe concerned about it, can't help her because again it's a crime to help others in that universe apparently.

Not that even if she did try, Chloé is most likely still the daughter of the mayor in that universe too and can get away with it while probably having Emonette and Sabine being punished for any perceived slight against her, weither she is in the right or wrong. We saw several examples in the show of her doing just that, and some where before and after she became Queen Bee so.

And let's not forget that Emonette doesn't have Alya either, so she probably went through what Marinette went through 4 seasons with Chloé on a different scale, given there are no heroes but Betterfly to defend them and inspire them, and since helping others is not acceptable, Chloé has no one to look up to and idolize and wanting to be better, this universe seems to encourage people to be worse instead of better and anyone thinking the opposite becomes a criminal.

Again, their universe is quite different from the one the show takes place in and maybe it would help to remember that.

Sure it sucks for all of Chloé's fans to have her name dragged in the mud again it seems, but it's a different Chloé from quite a nasty piece of work of a universe as far as I can tell, so to me it checks out.

Because at the beginning before Marinette heard about Adrien and he becoming Ladybug to save Paris her biggest concern was Chloé Bourgeois.

She had known Chloé for years and was her favorite target, and given she was a normal teenager back then, her bully being her biggest source of angst, given how nasty Chloé is and with her father's name backing her up, seems to have it big on her plate.

Because the only person who ever gave Marinette a hard time was Chloé, never the others students, until that one time in Derision with Kim but well we're not gonna dwell on that anymore.

So it makes sense Emonette's biggest concern who made her life horrible was also Chloé Bourgeois until she got her miraculous from the Supreme, if no one else was willing to being marked a criminal for daring to help her via actual laws.

Because if people forgot about it the Supreme had no problem using two 14 years old teenagers to become his enforcers while also hiding the fact that using their powers for evil would destroy them, and those kids were fucking working for him willingly, so imagine how other 14 years old kids (mainly the class) would fare if they dared breaking the law for Emonette by helping her in any way?

Not much better it seems, given the Supreme was willing to let 2 teens die slowly despite their loyalty to him it means most likely being a kid isn't an excuse to break the law.

Gabriel said people lived in fear of the Supreme, I got a pretty good idea of why when thinking about it all.

I'm legit scared of Emonette's universe not gonna lie.

Helping people being a crime there, think about it for a second.

Chloé would have no reason to change for the better unless she would want to have problems with the actual ruler of the world.

Sounds far fetched but then again the Supreme was also able to prevent people from making a wish with Gimmi, aka the actual top god so yeah, it sucks but it's how it is in that universe.

BUT. BUT.

Doesn't mean that Emonette can't make Chloé change to become a better person in the future, but we probably won't see that happening if we ever see her again, or if we do it will probably just be mentionned quickly, or they will have bigger concerns to deal with.

[steelblaidd]

"And as far as she knows Lila is an okay(ish) person." - And?? That's not an excuse to force a friendship between two people. People have the right to choose if they want to be friend with someone or not. You don't just disregard other peoples fellings like that. If you think that it's okay to disregard others fellings and force them to do what you want them do, like be friends with someone that they don't want, so this say much about you.

I think you have missed my point.

I agree that forcing two people to be friends is not a good thing. And Alya's pushiness is an established flaw in her character.

This is not about approving anyone's actions. It's about understanding what they know that informs those actions.

My read of @flightfoot's comment was that to her view all Alya is trying to do is stop them from being enemies. Whether or not this is true is actually beside the point for what I was trying to say.

MY point is that while we, the audience, know that Lila is an enthusiastic Junior Supervillain and major bad news. No one in the Class knows that. Adrien has the experience most relevant to recognizing Lila's true threat level and he is only getting a clue now.

Alya is not betraying her best friend to that friends nemesis.

She's trying to cool off the war between the two most popular girls in class. A war that, from her point of view, is being caried out by Marinette. As far as anyone but Chloe knows at the start of the episode Lila has already buried the hatchet.

For context to other readers here is the full comment.

[fortuna-et-cataclysmos]

S5 finale: wrapping up the "running out of time" theme

So I have been mentioning frequently that there is a theme of "running out of time" in season 5, but I wasn't able to make out the meaning of it, until now.

We can say that there are three situations where the theme explicitely manifests:

Gabriel: After receiving a cataclysm wound in Destruction, we often hear Gabriel repeat that he is running out of time. The entire Intuition episode is based on that premise.

Ladynoir: This is the most obvious manifestation of this theme. In Jubilation, Ladybug and Chat Noir live a dream just to be constantly reminded that their perfect life together will end when they wake up to reality. I call it Ladynoir, but actually it is Maribug's love and romantic relationship with Chat in general.

Adrinette: This is the most subtle one, but it is there. Notice how Marinette needs to ease into a relationship with Adrien, and Adrien is doing his best to cut her slack, so much so that he says in Derision, and I quote: "We've got time." Soon after, Adrien is sent to London.

If you think I have forgotten other strings of running out of time, feel free to let me know!

Now let's look at these three strings individually:

Gabriel running out of time

This one is the simplest one as it starts very early on in the season, with the episode Destruction where he gets the cataclym wound, and ends in Recreation with his "sacrifice." Also worthy noting the names of the episodes. What starts as Gabriel running out of time in Destruction is concluded in Recreation with him making his wish, accomplishing his wish, and dying. We can consider this thread concluded.

2. Ladynoir running out of time

Of course, the first episode that comes to mind is Jubilation. In Jubilation we (and the blorbos) learn that they actually desire to be together, romantically. And indeed they get to live a perfect little life in their dream, ignoring the increasingly bigger alarm clocks that are trying to wake them up. Except that at the end Ladybug realises that they must wake up (duty calls!), and she abandons Chat Noir in the dream universe, broken.

From here on, nearly every episode is a warning for Marinette against being romantically together with Chat Noir:

Determination: Marinette accepts that she has feelings for Chat Noir, her reaction to that is crying

Passion: Ladybug's crush on Chat Noir leads to her being distracted and making many critical mistakes in their fight

Reunion: is a cautionary tale about Ladybug and Cat Miraculous holders falling in love

Illusion: (I haven't watched this in a while but I think nothing relevant happens here)

Elation: Marinette is nearly akumatised because of her love to and rejection by Chat Noir

The overarching message from Jubilation to Elation is that: if Maribug ends up with Chat Noir, it'll be a disaster.

So Marinette decides to close up her heart to anyone, and after a brief depression, Adrien finally convinces her to be with him and they become an official couple. From this point onwards, the key ship becomes Adrinette.

Does that mean that Ladynoir has run out of time? Not necessarily. They just decided to love each other in a different way. I should remind here that even though we tend to polarise the sides of the square as fandom, the creators have repeatedly told that the love square is one, there is one love.

The Ladynoir relationship has a direct connection to the Adrinette dynamics because after all, they're the same two people.

3. Adrinette running out of time

Now that Adrinette is finally together, they should have all the time in the world, right? Right? It's what Adrien says, after all.

But I couldn't shake this sense of urgency throughout this season. Every time they said that they had time, it made me feel like they actually don't and they don't know it. And it was exactly what they wanted to make us feel: with Adrien's move to London, it turns out they didn't have time. Worse is that, Adrien actually knew that he'd need to move to London but he couldn't tell it to Marinette, he kept it a secret all the way till he was shipped off to London.

And there is a parallel between Jubilation and Revolution here: in both episodes, their dream is shattered, they share one last dramatic kiss, and they are torn apart from one and other (@asukiess had a big brain time and pointed this out back when Revolution aired).

But now, in Recreation, Gabriel is gone. Everything is fixed? Everyone will be happy, right?

Well... No.

As I pointed out in a previous post, the world that Gabriel creates is a bit too bright, too perfect. The show is notorious for associating the sun with fake happiness at this point, while the "real" moments are rainy and/or dark. And let's see the colour palette in the end:

Another detail that makes me put on my tinfoil hat:

They're not very visible on the static image, but there are white butterflies flying over the flower arch. Those could be symbolising the end, as a reference to how Ladybug releases the purified akuma at the end of each episode. But it might also have a second meaning, a reference to how this world was in fact created upon the ideals of Gabriel.

And that can't be good for anyone. I explain more the consequences and aftermath of this episode in the post I mention above, but basically this world is Gabriel's ideal, and it is far from being a good place for neither Marinette, nor Adrien.

One main reason why: Gabriel has left Marinette with the truth about the Monarch, and she agreed to keep it a secret from Adrien. But we know that it will eventually come out. Either she tells it to Chat Noir, or maybe Lila plots something, but it won't remain a secret forever. And when it does... it will have tremendous impact on not only Adrinette, but also Ladynoir.

This world is a fantasy world where Marinette and Adrien have ended up together, just like in: Chat Blanc, Ephemeral, Oblivio, Jubilation. And at one point the alarm clock will ring, the hammer will drop, and both Ladynoir and Adrinette will run out of time. Except that this time, we may not be able to revert back to the status quo.

Gabriel has left them with a tickling time bomb.

[piromina]

Guys, so I was thinking, and there is no way there was a father-son reveal post-emo special. They all went home, and Claw Noir, not Adrien Agreste, was deemed Comrade Mayo. Betterfly still does not know the identities of his new teammates, and Shadybug and Claw Noir still do not know the identity of the man who dared to steal a miraculous from the Supreme. Claw Noir and Betterfly live in the same house and neither of them know it, and there still hasn't been a reveal.

You want proof?

According to Tikki, she "lives in all the universes simultaneously" or something (shut up I dont wanna go back and see what she actually says leave me alone). This implies that all kwamis live in all the parallel universes, all at the same time. Which includes Plagg.

If there was a father-son reveal in Emo Land, Plagg would know the identity of Betterfly. He would then, therefore, also know the identity of Monarch. And he would not have been surprised when Marinette told him that Monarch lived in the Agreste Manor in Conformation. Because he would have already known that.

And if you want to say that this is another "peacock miraculous in the safe" situation, and the father-son reveal actually did happen and Plagg is just ignorant and didnt make the connection Betterfly = Monarch, I'm not stopping you. They can have their reveal in your head anytime you want.

I'm just making another pointless speculation about my favorite bug and cat show and pointing out the true canonical facts.

(there hasn't been a reveal. yet. :P)

[adrinoir]

I’m just gonna outright say it: I hate Tomoe Tsurugi.

She’s an awful mother and she literally just disowned her own daughter for defying her the slightest bit. It shows that she sees Kagami as her property and not a person with her own emotions, wants, and needs.

What’s really sad too is that Kagami very clearly loves her mother despite how abusive she is towards her (very much like how Adrien is with his father). But Tomoe’s love for Kagami is extremely conditional. It doesn’t matter how much Kagami loves her - she constantly has to obey her mother and her wishes to receive that love in return.

Kagami was never allowed to be her own person in front of her mother. However, now that Tomoe pushed Kagami away, hopefully Kagami will have that autonomy that she’s never had before. It could be a good thing for Kagami; the start of a great new chapter in her life.

If Felix does genuinely care about Kagami, he’ll continue to be someone who welcomes her with open arms and will expose her to great things so she can be her own person. Even if he doesn’t, she’ll always have Marinette and Adrien by her side to give her all the unconditional love and support she needs to thrive.

I hope Kagami gets nothing but love and support, and that she soon realizes Lila is using her.