#miraculous speculation

[imthepunchlord]

Rewatching Timebreaker, in hindsight to knowing what the watch is, this intro to it makes it so weird.

Specifically the watch's ability to make a hologram.

Assuming this watch was always planned to be the Rabbit Miraculous, does that mean that all Miraculous can make holograms? Or have some unique minor ability they can do and this is what the Rabbit can do?

Which, for something related to time travel, it's kinda random.

Unless Rabbit wasn't planned to have time traveling powers, but potentially, originally was the illusionist instead of Fox.

Which wouldn't be too much of a stretch for Rabbit.

White rabbits are an iconic animal that's tied to magicians, who are expert illusionists.

To add to it, the rabbit is tied the trickster archetype. Europe has tied rabbits to other-worldliness and the fae. And there is an Indian fable of the Clever Rabbit and the Foolish/Hungry Lion. Where the Lion decreed all animals were to sacrifice themselves so he can eat, and when it was the Rabbit's turn, the Rabbit told the Lion that there was another lion nearby, and led the Lion to a well/watering hole and pointed to the reflection in the water. The Lion drowned trying to fight his reflection, saving the Rabbit and other animals from being devoured.

Which a reflection can count as another illusion.

This can even work off Alice in Wonderland as illusions can be tied to dreams, and they can be creative and surreal and strange.

As for the time motif, it can play off time is an illusion.

So IF that watch was always planned to be the Rabbit Miraculous, I wonder if it was originally the illusionist instead of the time traveler; as the ability for the watch to make a hologram is just so random.

As for Fox, given that Volpina "the False Fox" was an illusionist, there was a possibility that the actual Fox wasn't. And Thomas Astruc had confirmed that Pied Piper was a Fox (hence the flute).

Potentially, Fox originally had a power of hypnosis or subconscious manipulation through music, also working off how music can influence you.

Which this ability is what I associate Pied Piper with more than illusions, and it would work better off Fox playing the flute to use the power, as playing it to make illusions is a weird choice. Anyone hearing that music would know an illusion is coming, but not so if the music could enthrall you and influence how you perceive the world, what you register.

To add to it, this can work off the 9 tailed foxes too, I have read that some did have the ability to hypnotize; this can also work off that infamous ability to possess a target, taking over another.

A lot of this is just speculation though.

It's hard to say if the watch even was always planned to be a Miraculous, if the Zodiac were even always planned. Some things just feel like they rolled out and there were definite changes that had been made, some of which I'm sure were done to keep to the status quo easier and not drastically change up the story (like Mayura was built up to be a bigger bad and bigger threat, actually be HM's boss, but nah, that'd change up too much, can't have that).

[tricieslune]

I like to make speculations on what might happen in season 6 just for fun sometimes. Todays what if idea was crazy tho.

Lila/Cerisse is hell-bent on wrecking Marinette’s life, and throughout Season 6 she absolutely nails it. Marinette's world crumbles bit by bit. But then, the finale hits like a freight train—One of Lila's schemes cost Marinette one or both of her parents. The pain is unbearable. Season 7 Marinette? She’s not the same, not even close. She’s hardened, haunted. the sweet girl we knew is barely holding on. She's totally unhinged.

I just had this thought because I was thinking how most of the MC's had lost at least one parent or had parental issues. Marinette was always an exception but like what if ???? I told this to my sister she started bawling.

[2manyfandoms2count]

I wonder how the multiverse came to be? Maybe through mullo?

Interesting thought! I seem to recall that Tikki was the first Kwami to ever be created, so I'd assume that if she exists simultaneously everywhere, then the Multiverse was born at the same time as her/was there before her, but Mullo is pretty chaotic, it would be pretty funny if there was one timeline and then for instance Plagg and Mullo started talking about their common love of cheese, and Mullo decided to make more universes to expand the amount of cheese that might be invented akhjkefhhg

[nothingtherefornow]

Do you ever think that the only reason Gabriel and Emilie fall in love is because they represent the opposite of their lives, what they wanted and who they are? Because I look at it, Emilie was raised to be the perfect daughter for when she finally came of age, she'll inherit everything her parents expected of her; Gabe always states how perfect Emilie is, and no one could match her, even Adrien. Gabe always strives for perfection. While Gabriel, it's obvious he was rebellious and more carefree, which shows he has a lot of freedom in his life, which Emilie always wanted, as we saw in Felix's play. That's how I see their love story; what do you think?

I've never thought about that ! you're making a very interrestin point here.

Gabriel may have secretly been envious of the rich and the wealthy when he was young, and I can somehow also imagine Gabriel becoming obsessed with the image of beauty and perfection the more he tried to become a man worthy of Emilie.

And Emilie was such a free and curious spirit restricted by her royal duties and the strictness of he parents, so of course a Punk, fre, mischievous and rebellious person like Gabriel would enchant her, the typical bad boy who represent the escape from a life that Emilie doesn't want.

So there's indeed a possibility that Emilie and Gabriel had mostly been in love with the idea of each others and what they represented

[matt0044]

How might "Iris Verdi" operate as the new Hawk Moth?

I feel that she'd put her twisted tongue to good use in inciting moments of discord with certain students not unlike Chloe but being more subtle about it compared to Ms. Queen Bee. She'd duck somewhere out of the way and release an Akuma. She could also take a risk by detransforming and joining the crowd of bystanders to create consistent alibis, given she hasn't the Peacock to create a Sentimonster duplicate.

When not in school, she might be daring enough to jump into the fray to join her Champion. Trying to get Ladybug and Chat Noir separated so she can hone in on one or the other. It'd add to the Marinette vs. Lila friction if the theory of her knowing the former's Ladybug holds up.

Though given all other Miraculous have full time holders, she'd likely keep her distance mostly.

There's also the matter of Tomoe Tsurugi.

I can see Tomoe trying to distance herself from Gabriel lest he be found out as Monarch to keep her tech company from crumbling after Alliance goes belly-up (that's a major profit loss if there ever was one).

However, since Lila got Nathelie to give all of Gabriel's secrets to her as Hoaxer, this would include Tomoe's connections and Kagami (who has fallen into Lila's grasp as her "BFF") being a Sentimonster. Chances are that she'll use this as leverage for her own ends.

Then there's the matter of her knowing of Gabriel's secrets:

Given that Lila knows Monarch's true identity and how both Chat Blanc and Ephemeral showed Adrien becoming the most powerful Akumatized Villain, I feel like that's something the new Hawk Moth has in store for a Season Finale where she crafts one hell of a Champion out the Cat Holder.

It also feel like the most dramatic circumstances for The Reveal(TM) to take place in the prime timeline, especially if Lila knows that Marinette is Ladybug (she had observed Bug Noir's final battle and dived into the water for the Moth Brooch). What other revenge would be just as satisfying?

[uptoolateart]

Anyone notice how many times Ladybug talked about herself in third person in the London Special?

As soon as she told that lie about Gabriel and Tomoe, she began separating herself from what she'd done. She's coping through dissociation.

Throughout S1-5, she and Adrien were on paths towards integration. They were learning to see that he already was Cat Noir and she already was Ladybug. The strength lay within all along.

But by being untrue, she's gone backwards, splitting her two selves rather than unifying them. She's attempting to compartmentalise Marinette's relationship with Adrien from Ladybug's...which is unworkable.

In a word...our girl is a mess. She's supposedly doing all this to protect Adrien - but who's protecting her?

[cakemousse]

alright unless proven otherwise, i'm going to hc that toxinelle's crush is actually griffe noire

or a “crush who doesn’t think I’m a lame-o”! credits to @2manyfandoms2count for the translation

it's unfortunate... but hear me out

the salters always say that the lovesquare is toxic codependency, imma show you what real toxic codependency really is, on the part of emonette at least

'he's rude as fuck and disrespects her all the time, there's no way emonette would fall for him' while this is true and i would agree under normal circumstances, toxinelle came from a world where she didn't have anyone, no super awesome friends to inspire her everyday, no best friend in life and in death, no mum who is gentle and calm, nothing. she's lonely and has nothing to fall back on, but you know who she can fall back on? griffe noire

even if he does let her fall

he is the only constant she has in her life, at least ever since she got her miraculous. even if it means getting insulted left and right by him, she puts up with him

why? cause if she doesn't she'll truly lose the only thing she has 'going' in her life

and we can see that after she read marinette’s diary about the part where ladybug and chat noir are partners or rather teammates, she looks at griffe noire, as though she’s thinking of being teammates with him. it’s something she wants, and we know it’s something she truly wants by the end of the special

also in this universe, emodrien has a crush on emonette, so what's preventing toxinelle to have a crush on griffe noire?

toxinelle isn’t happy, we can tell when she poured her heart out to ladyfly about everything and then finally about her crush thinking she’s lame all the time, but there isn’t much she can do if she wants her constant to continue be by her side

loneliness really does some fucked up things to a person huh?

the concept’s pretty fitting of a villain don’t you think? 🥲

[monpetitchattriste]

At last my dreams have come along

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Either Shadybug and Claw noir are just like punks rebelling with super powers or the worst they have done is vandalism and some property damage OR they are global terrorists that have conquered the world and are killing/ torturing the inhabitants of Paris, there is no in between.

[pisoprano]

I found it a bit odd that in the promo pictures for the Miraculous Paris special, Shadybug and Emonette both appear in one:

But Claw Noir only appears in his super form:

Now, this may just be a sign that Evil!Adrien isn’t going to get as much screen time as Evil!Marinette is, or be a side effect of how this show’s marketing tends to skew towards featuring the girls (and Marinette specifically).

But if we want to put on the tinfoil hat? There’s the conspiracy explanation for why we’re not being given info about Claw Noir’s civilian form in the promotional imagery:

That’s not Adrien. That’s Felix.

Felix is Chat Noir in the PV universe, so it’s not out of the question that he could be the black cat wielder in another universe. An AU where Chat is evil is exactly the sort of place you can make Chat!Felix canon.

And if you look at his transformation as Argos, what do we see?

Oh hey, it’s green hair and pink eyes, same as Claw Noir!

Coincidence??????????????

(yeah, probably)

[fortuna-et-cataclysmos]

In defense of s5 finale

I hear and see a lot of people expressing dislike of the season finale, some also in the tags and comments of my analysis/speculation posts. So I wanted to further expand on this.

Gabriel's victory -being remembered a hero despite everything wrong he did, especially abuse to Adrien- has left a sour taste in many people's mouth; many blaming the scenarists and not shying away from calling it "bad writing."

But I think that that was exactly what the scenarists wanted to do? The perfect world Gabriel leaves behind is unsettling, unfair, and I think that the creators have done their best to show that implicitly but clearly. I think that we are supposed to be irked by the finale.

Why do I think that? Because there were a lot of small things that gave the message that, as @emsylcatac iconically put it, "this is the bad place." I touched upon some of those in my previous post on how this was a victory for Gabriel and Lila, and a defeat for Ladybug. I'll try to list them more clearly here.

Gabriel a hero

This is the one thing everyone has the most problem with. At the end, Gabriel was declared the hero who gave his life to defeat the Monarch, who was none other than himself. Some artistic choices here are so over the top that I believe they were specifically made to irk us.

If the silver statue itself wasn't enough, the exact quote of Caline Bustier is:

All the rings that have been highjacked by the Monarch have been recycled into a statue in honour of the great Gabriel Agreste.

Then Tsurugi Tomoe goes on to say:

Beyond the visionary entrepreneur and genius creator that he was, we are celebrating a hero today.

See, everything bad about Gabriel has been flipped. If you count literally exploiting people visionary entrepreneurship, sure, he was that. And genius? He couldn't get the miraculouses of two teenagers for an entire year despite having all the resources, and he ended up succeeding only with the help of another extremely powerful person (Tsurugi Tomoe) and even then he ended up dying himself.

As of creator, he was literally a destructor. He destroyed Paris more times than anyone can count, and everything was fixed every time only thanks to Ladybug. Let's not also forget how he destroyed the Miraculouses to exploit their power.

Adrien's comment about his father

This is another thing many people have had problem with. It is so outrageous that I won't believe the creators would expect us to take at face value.

At the end, Adrien acknowledges that his father died to take down the Monarch, and says:

I don't know if one day I'll manage to become like him.

Lo and behold, the man who had emotionally neglected and abused his son to no end has turned into the said son's hero and role model. Adrien not only looks up to him, but also wants to make an active effort to become like him. Hell, he even doubts if he can be as good as him.

No way this line can taken at face value. There are many children's shows with abusive parental figures nowadays (like She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, the Owl House) that have all handled the conclusion to that abuse generally well. The watchers' expectations are high in this respect; the scenarists would know that such conclusion, if not ironic, would not satiate the expectations of the spectators.

Lack of accountability: Gabriel and Tomoe

As many many people have pointed out, the general lack of accountability in this season finale is infuriating. So Gabriel mentally tortured THE ENTIRE WORLD POPULATION and not only never faced consequences in life, but also is remembered as a hero in death?

What about Tomoe?

Not only she has not faced any repercussion for being basically a supervillain, but also she is still a respected public figure who can go and make a speech backed by the mayor, in front of the freaking French flag. If that doesn't irk you, I don't know what will.

Worse is that, she goes as far as saying in her speech that:

I'll make sure to continue his legacy.

So she'll continue to be evil. Great hint that she'll continue being an antagonist in season 6.

As you can see, the new world that has been created is extremely unfair and problematic. No way this can be "the good place," an actual "happy ending."

Everything is fixed! No problems anymore!

Also, you'd realise that the world is perfect, a little too perfect. It is like a green utopian dream.

Caline Bustier has been the mayor "only for a few weeks" (direct quote from the episode), and she has already fixed all the problems possible in Paris. Not only that, she has also solved inequality and class struggle (again, mentioned by herself). Let's make Caline the President of the World already.

Funny that LITERALLY ALL THE PROBLEMS of a city could be solved, while the exact same episode showed Majestia, the freaking Supergirl of the ML universe, acknowledged in her nightmare that:

Even with all my superpowers, I'll never manage to solve all the problems of the world.

Well, Bustier says that she has no superpower, that people working together can accomplish that. Kudos to her and her democratic spirit. But like, perfect city in a few weeks? Even Mayor Bourgeois who wanted to send all the trash of Paris to space would realise that that's impossible.

There is no perfect solution, yet the world is perfect

Ladybug acknowledges that there is no perfect solution to Gabriel's situation. Trying to bring back his wife, he has caused irreparable damage to himself and to Nathalie, effectively leaving Adrien an orphan. He still hopes that Ladybug can fix it all. But she can't because of the nature of the wish: for one thing gained, another thing should be lost. In Ladybug's words:

There is no perfect wish. Every time a power is used for personal gain, it causes catastrophes. (...) We'll find a solution, but it will never be as perfect as one would wish.

Interesting, given that the world ends up being completely perfect?

All the problems are solved, literally everyone is happy, Marinette and Adrien are finally together. But the wish was made for personal gain, no? So where are the consequences? Where is equivalent exchange? The catastrophe, the price of the perfect, green, just world? I think we'll see that in season 6.

The dream world

The new world is seriously giving me weird vibes. Like it is a movie set. For those who have watched The Good Place, you'd know how in the town everything feels a bit too bright, artificial, perfect. I get the same vibes from the post-wish world.

The Agreste mansion is covered by green vines?? Way to hide the atrocities that were planned and happened here.

Here is a screengrab I found on the internet from The Good Place (the ladybug is a funny coincidence lol)

I am getting the exact same vibes!

Also, I have expanded on that in my post on "running out of time" theme, but basically in the ML universe usually the "real" stuff are associated with the night and the rain while things that happen in the sun turn out to be fake or erased/forgotten. So the feeling that I get from this finale is that, this new "perfect" world is not genuine; that the seeming happiness it brings will be soon destroyed (I doubt erased), just as it happened in other fake reality episodes like Chat Blanc, Ephemeral, Oblivio, or Jubilation. As I argued before, this is not a permanent victory. Hell, it isn't even a real victory, not with the secret Marinette is left to keep from Adrien.

Not a real victory

Another thing that makes me think that this ending is not genuine is the lack of Chat Noir in the finale. Yes, I am a fervent Ladynoir stan who was hoping for some Ladynoir action (if not reveal) and was hugely disappointed by the lack of Chat's engagement in the final fight, but now that I think of it, this may have been on purpose.

Notice how in Conformation, Ladybug says:

Our only way to win against him is to fight him together.

And yet, soon thereafter, she is catapulted into a fight with the Monarch.

Notice also it wasn't her choice to unify the miraculouses and face the Monarch alone. She had to, because Chat Noir wasn't there.

Let's remember that this show spent the entire season 4 explaining how Ladybug assuming all the responsibility alone leads to disaster, how she needs Chat Noir to share the burden with him.

Let's also remember how in season 5, especially at the beginning of it, we see Ladybug change her behaviour towards Chat Noir: she gives him more responsibilities (the Bunny Miraculous, the identity of certain holders if I am not mistaken), and how at one point she confesses that Chat Noir has been very serious and responsible lately (and then promptly develops a crush on him).

So taking on the Monarch herself is really against everything they have built up in season 4 and the beginning of season 5. That's why I think that this "victory" is so wrong: it was "won" only by Ladybug. Maybe if Chat Noir were there, he would have prevented the Monarch from making the wish (hypothetically, then we would have an entirely different timeline). If his identity were revealed the way Marinette's was, Gabriel could have controlled him through his amok. In any case, their defeat or victory would have looked very different from this.

In the end, we must remember that this world is far from being a victory for Ladybug: she has, after all, LOST. She couldn't stop Gabriel from making the wish. And while this world looks perfect, and we got what seems like a forever happy after ending for Adrinette, their happiness is set in a non-genuine victory and world.

So I think we shouldn't be angry with the show-runners: there is a reason why this ending feels and is wrong. If it were all wonderful, it wouldn't be the season finale. It would be the finale, period. And I believe that everything that has been disturbing us in this season finale will be addressed, if not consist of the core conflict of season 6. Let's all take a deep breath and turn to fan fiction or fan art till we get the new season now :) (at least that's what I'll do lol)

[ijustliketoreadstuff]

A kid thought of this!?

Ok, a kid just pointed this out to me and now I can't stop thinking about it. They said Wayhem, Adrien's #1 fan, may have a connection to Lila/Cerise. Why? Because Wayhem has a very overlooked, very subtle detail. On his shirt, is a little chameleon.

Lila is the shows chameleon, constantly changing and disguising herself as different people. Whether or not she has a connection to Wayhem, or anyone in Paris for that matter, is something we will have to wait and see.

They also pointed out that Wayhem being connected to Lila/Cerise would explain why he was so hurt over Adrien possibly lying to him back in "Party Crasher", he was hurt because he had already experienced being lied to too many times by one other person in his life he held in high regard.

To anyone wondering if we have actually seen Wayhem and Lila in the same room. We did. In the school cafeteria, episode "illusion". Lila took a picture of Adrien and uploaded it on all her social medias. Wayhem showed up a few minutes later along with a crowd of people.

One of Lila's akumatized names was literally "Chameleon". The only thing missing to complete the connection is to actually see Wayhem and Lila interact. All this from a 6 year old's little theory!

[melbatron5000]

Wild theory, hold on.

(Please do not take any of my theories to Neil himself! Don't do it!)

I've already hypothesized that Crowley and Aziraphale have been working on a plan since Armaggedidn't in season 1. Here's where I go off the rails a little bit. Come along.

Saraqael is part of the plan. She's in on it.

I have only hints and suspicions, not too much for Clues, but hear me out.

In this post, we see a weird movement between buildings behind Shax. Almost like . . . a person in a floating wheelchair coming around the corner? And Crowley is in his spy turtleneck. He's doing something spyish. Meeting an angel he's not supposed to have a connection to, perhaps? About something that maybe interests both of them? Like, not having a second end of the world?

And in this post, we see that Saraqael has opened a spy porthole onto the book shop -- but the picture in the apy porthole is in 2019.

I do not think for a moment that tiny, weenie half-a-miracle-each accidentally blew up into a 25 lazarii miracle. I think someone else at around the same time did a huge miracle, someone powerful, someone who no one is supposed to know about -- or at least, doing something no one is supposed to know about -- and Saraqael hid it the best she could.

Show the arc angels the book shop when Adam reset it. You know, after it burned in 2019. That would be some crazy big miracle energy.

Then go to Earth with the arc angels and nudge Aziraphale into taking responsibility for the miracle. He's good at lying to them, after all, he can come up with something quick. And who is it that says, "Don't tell me you did it?" Why, sarcastic Saraqael. Translation, "tell them you did it, or we're screwed." And Aziraphale jumps right in and says yes, I did that.

Then send someone who won't give back good reports to verify the miracle. Saraqael, why would you send Muriel? Muriel is so sweet and naive, she won't come up with anything she shouldn't.

Then when Crowley is searching around in Heaven, who does he run into but his (doesn't exist) contact? And she tries to give him a reason to recognize her, they worked on the Horsehead nebula together. And he laughs and says, I meet a lot of people. He doesn't need her cover story, he'll just play dumb. She kind of snorts and shakes her head, she tried to give him an out but he took his own way. Headstrong demon.

When the Metatron shows up, who recognizes him? No one but Crowley and Saraqael. Could be because they just watched the trial, could be because they've been actively working together against him for years now. Hard to say. Hard to say. I honestly didn't recognize him in a full human form for a hot minute, it's not like it's impossible to imagine no one would know him. But those two do. Feels important to me.

I don't know if I'm right, but I'm suspicious now. What are they hiding? Who was doing a big miracle that needed covering up? Whatever was the miracle for?

Also, this. More evidence. They are up to something.

[saytr]

Ladynoir reunited in S6?

Maybe Post reveal because buttgrab

[kisilinramblings]

Ok, I'm unable to go back to bed and it got me thinking.

So Luka has the power of Second Chance and is presented as a mediator / friend therapist without the proper licensing

Félix has the power of Emotion and has been abused, had a lot of anger in him and is Adrien's cousin who, like him was victim of abused by his father and whose father has died.

We have Kagami with the power of Perfection who didn't agree with Marinette but is honoring her wish.

We have the power of Illusion wielded by Alya who is Marinette's BFF and close confident while also dating Nino, Adrien's best friend, who is wielding the power of Protection. Protection and Illusion goes hand in hand.

We have Rose who wield the power related to positivity and who only see the good thing in everything.

We have Kim with the power of Derision who turns thing into a joke or don't take thing too seriously.

We have Alix with the power of Evolution who is keeping the timeline (read destiny) in check. She even got an association with the Three Fates/Parcae figure during the London Special.

We have Pretension and Passion who also go hand in hand because they are respectfully wielded by Marc (the Storyteller) and Nathaniel (the artist) who work together and more.

We have Zoé who has the power of Action which immobilizes her target.

We have Juleka with the power of Elation, who is usually in the background and doesn't talk much, but is slowly making herself heard.

We have Sabrina with the Power of Adoration, who blindly followed someone for a long time.

We have Max who as the wielder of the power of Migration, relies a lot on stats and calculation to interact with the world.

We have the Power of Determination, wielded by Ivan that makes him immune to (supermagical) attacks.

We have Mylène with the Power of Multiplication who says that to solve a major problem, you don't have to resort to one and unique solution but rather take multiple little actions at the same time.

Finally, the Kwami of Transmission is missing. Transmission is another word for communication, transfer of knowledge. Not only that, his Miraculous is wielded by someone known to be misinformation / propaganda / defamation herself.

And I don't know if you are all seeing what I am seeing at this point but... if there is a civil war like fight among the Miracuclass, I would pay attention with who is siding with who. Although I think we can already figure some even at this point.