#minamartin

[when-did-this-become-difficult]

Wow. There was an episode. Finally. Feels like something happening. Kyle finally had the talk with his wife, thank you. He finally had a talk with his brother, thank you. And that prison cell scene...hard to watch for me. How you felt about it? Also thank god Robert is in the next episode because i feel like an addict missing its drug...

Hiya <3 @minamartin!

Honestly I'm a bit meh on the show right now, I feel like every episode is just a string of events with no coherent theme or arc per episode. I like having Bunny's cousin (sort of, I mean, I think it's kinda hilarious that she's annoyed by Mike but also thinks he's hot) but overall idk it's meh for me...The prison cell scene was really upsetting, but it was supposed to be upsetting. And frankly I'm kind of tired of watching Mike just drive around and talk on phones and have no power/make no moves, I'm serious...like he can try and FAIL at something but he's not even really doing anything. Kyle's bits were all right, but not very interesting/impactful to me tbh. I liked Ian's creepy little burgers for bodies conversation and maybe that'll actually give Mike some leverage with the DA, but from the next episode preview, I doubt it. I'm really concerned about Bunny. I also am concerned about Karim, who has grown on me over time. And hurray for seeing like 0.2 seconds of Rebecca, I guess? But...hm...honestly if I hadn't already watched so much of this show I'd probably be out right now

[swsapphics-ao3feed]

Chapters: 4/? Fandom: Star Wars - All Media Types, Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008) - All Media Types Rating: Mature Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Relationships: Bo-Katan Kryze & Ursa Wren, Bo-Katan Kryze/Pre Vizsla (Mentioned), Bo-Katan Kryze/Ursa Wren (unrequited), Pre Vizsla & Ursa Wren Characters: Ursa Wren, Bo-Katan Kryze, Pre Vizsla, Original Mandalorian Characters (Star Wars), Gar Saxon (mentioned), Alrich Wren Additional Tags: Murder, Fights, Death Watch (Star Wars), Character Study, Non-Graphic Violence, Crimes, Unrequited Love, Flashbacks Summary:

Бо-Катан влаштовує рейд на стару республіканську базу, щоб поповнити запаси й бере з собою Урсу Врен. Але Урса пригнічена та розчарована своїм перебуванням у Варті Смерті. Вона згадує минуле та намагається зрозуміти, що її чекає попереду.

[sunnydaleherald]

The Sunnydale Herald Newsletter, Sunday, April 16

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[hellsbellschime]

minamartin said: i personally wasn’t rooting for either of them. i think amber heard has some deep mental issues and it is visible that she is over the top with her alleged stories. the tape where she tells depp to suck a silent part of her body, she is absolutely wasted and arrogant and sly. i personally believe that she tried to set up depp for money - there are evidence years back on youtube that leads back to this -, but also can believe that depp was abusive towards her as well.

Well I feel like "rooting for" anyone in a defamation trial about DV is not the thing we should be doing, but as far as the "gold digger" accusation goes, they were married without a prenup and she was entitled to more than 4x of the money that she actually took in their divorce settlement, so the notion that she was setting him up with some long con so she could get a $7 million dollar payday when I think by California law she was entitled to about $32 million flat out regardless of who was at fault or who did what in the marriage just doesn't make sense.

[dustydreamsanddirtyscars]

Hi. I just wanted to say, that i read back all your meta and opinions and i completely agree with you about the loss of the quality of the show. If im being completeley honest which i am, i have to say that i believe this show would have been easily the best show on tv, if the Netflix, HBO or Cinemax were taken it. Cw always ruins everything. This show should be scary, mad-toe-to-toe action filled with great writing. People in the chair with a pen not doing such good job. Have nice day. :)

Hi dear!

It isn’t a lot of fun to be so filled with disappointment regarding the show that despite all the bad writing and bad everything really of the last couple of seasons under Dabb still is the show that means most to you. And I am mostly keeping my mouth shut about it these days, because nobody likes to be bombarded with negative thoughts.

But I agree with you, the show deserves much better than it what it is cursed with at the moment. I have wondered many a times how much better SPn could have been even in its best seasons if it had a budget like let’s say “The Walking Dead”. I’m sure it would have been just breathtaking. Which is not to say that I haven’t felt absolutely enthralled by seasons past the way the show ran - I have been, I fell in love with it the way it was and now I seem to be falling out of love with it, because it is painful to me to see the show lose everything that it once stood for and that made it unique and an emotional journey to be invested in. There is just barely anything left of what made this show the show I love.

I will not type up again all that I am missing on the show these days, I have done that more times I can count - and it wo’t change anything. At this point I am just sad that SPN - the show closest to my heart - will just trickle out in meaningless cheap melodrama, when it had all the potential in the world but a showrunner who lost himself in the hype around himself and the fanservice strewn across all of the seasons without it actually being planned out in a proper and meaningful way, but just given as little pieces of candy for certain groups of the fandom. It doesn’t work for me that way. The show lacks integrity, it lacks heart, because frankly that heart, that core is not being the focus anymore (with this week’s episode being an exception), but storylines with characters I don’t care about and that are executed poorly and just foot on cheap drama.

I never would have thought I would come to this point but I think SPN should have ended with S11 when Dean held the amulet glowing in his hand and Chuck said “hi”. Everything that came after that... It’s a different show and it may feature the Winchesters (now and again, sadly Dabb isn’t truly interested in their story but rather everybody elses) and the Impala and the bunker, but it’s not the same show, it’s not the same depth, the same thought and love poured into it, it’s just... heartless. And that is painful, because what this whole show rests upon is emotion, emotion delivered and felt through the main characters with Dean as the narrator most of all, but he is barely in the picture these days (again this episode being an exception).

So yeah, those are my two cents once again that nobody wanted to hear. And to end this reply with a nod towards the episode: Maybe the writers should take a look at their set up and what Dean saw when he read that book, which I think is a blank page. Dean, ultimate symbol of free will, uniting humanity and divnity within, re-writer of the apocalypse, the one ripping up the pages of destiny, his “book of life (and death)” now has a blank page and what could possibly be more scary than that for Dean? He’s overwhelmed, he’s got all the possibilities in the world, in the end this action and though all other books having been rewritten don’t matter, because they haven’t been written by Dean himself. It’s up for Dean to decide, to write his own story, be the master of his own destiny. He isn’t just the God of his own story, he is also the Death of his own story.

And that is kind of the thing that Michael despite all his boasting doesn’t understand. He doesn’t need to kill God, really, he can’t kill God, because he is already dead. Nothing made this more clear than this blank page - that I assume is what Dean saw in that book and that is what freaks Dean out more than any other scenario written down would have (though granted with this writing team, they probably go down some idiotic blatent route and explanation) imo. Maybe Dabb should leave the pen to Dean Winchester, I’m sure he’d be a better writer than any of the people currently on staff...

[joshduhamelsource]

Oh my god. Someone who loves Josh Duhamel as the same level as me. You're the joy of my day, really! I love him ever since the Las Vegas. Im writing a story where the guy's look and face is Josh's. I know that he isn't in connection with Lauren Conrad but i ship with her. Im waiting sooo long that he gets a badass, main role in a movie. He would actually deserves a great ruling role. And i would gladly see him as a badass, silent kind of tough bad guy or good.

the fact that you said i’m the joy of your day holy shit that made me smile awww shucks ^_^ thanks sweetheart! I’ve been a fan of Josh since he started out waaaaaaay back in All My Children so you can say that’s a very long time been following his career every step of the way. He’s honestly my favorite person and an idol of mine i’ve looked up too for years so that won’t ever change! niceeeee i love Las Vegas so much too He does do pretty badass roles i could suggest you a couple if you like i’m a walking encyclopedia when it comes to Josh hehe!. 

[mina-martin]

Chapter 6b is up!

The Soobies are all off on their own adventures - sort of - when a strange cross-global apocalypse brings them all back together. What do the bad rainbow lights mean, paired with such terrible earthquakes happening all over the world? How are they connected to a universe with a certain other cute and blonde teenage superheroine? When am I going to get back to the Naru/Nephrite good stuff already? Read to find out more!

Ao3: https://archiveofourown.org/works/17830697/chapters/99876495

FF.net: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13210769/8/A-Gift-by-Starlight

TTH: https://www.tthfanfic.org/Story-32973-8/MinaMartin+A+Gift+by+Starlight.htm

Nephrite & Naru Treasury: https://nntreasury.com/

[rnbart]

@minamartin  “ "The longer i leave my enemies alone, the stronger they become." And Sansa's face is priceless... “   This is a great point that’s easily overlooked.  It’s not just Cersei’s armies that could grow stronger, but Dany’s as well.  If only she had allowed her forces and dragons extra time, they’d have rest, be able to recuperate, heal, and grow stronger.  Dany is an idiot and everyone in that room knows it.  Jon knows it as well, he’s a military commander, yet sides with her anyway...it should be clear to every viewer that he didn’t side with her out of love or concern!   

[griffinsclarke]

Hi. I just saw your posts/responses and im so glad that im not the only one who could talk about hours from seth and kate relationship and season 3. I just don't have anybody who i could talk to about it because nobody watching this show besides me. And i beg to be at least thousand season but when you wrote that Rob planned season 5 i was so glad. I just had to talk about this someone as excited as me. :)

omg i swear all i think about all day everyday is sethkate and LOVE talking to people about it. i love sharing theories and headcanons, or even crying over them. so, i’ll be here for u whenever you need someone to talk to :’)

[shelleyhennigsource]

Hi. Sorry for bothering but i wondered if you can help me out. I'm searching for the dress that Shelley wored as Diana on the The Secret Circle promotional picture. It kinda looks like lace and black or grey i have no idea.

i’m afraid i have no idea, i’m not very good with styling :( anyone know who can help out?

[when-did-this-become-difficult]

Yed thats exactly how i feel. If i havent put all this time into watching it, i would have left it behind already. Like a book that you start to read, figure out its shit and then you just grind your teeth and go through with it if you started already. Im only curious about Robert at this point - obviously, but im trying not freak you out because i know you hate him :D. I also curious if they wrap up something, if anything in this season, which i highly doubt. I feel the same thing about Mike driving around. That time could have been given to other characters, maybe they would have been interfering with the plot more actively than Mike. Also that - when i say something gets done it gets done, is starting to loose its weight. Also it is so nice that they spent so much time developing some kind of connection between Mike and Iris, and now they gonna abandon it for Bunnys cousin and Mike... I really can't figure out how this is gonna end.

@minamartin Yeah! Just overall, I feel like I want to finish, not that I want to find out what happens next, which is sad. I don't know what on earth they're doing with Bunny's cousin and Mike, especially since Mike's failing repeatedly to get Bunny any help at all, and Bunny's cousin appears significantly younger, and, idk, Evelyn is still RIGHT THERE...out of all his potential romantic/sexual interests, I think Evelyn is the best fit, even though I find Bunny's cousin charming. And I am sorta glad we don't see Iris right now because I'm sure she's just being miserably exploited, but also, I don't want to lose her entirely! I do want to know what they decide to do with her! Argh! Best of luck to all of us that are gonna stick through to the end.

[when-did-this-become-difficult]

Yes. I also was glad it came back. And i also love how realistically they dealt with the box - a civilian finding it. I like how they wife sensed that her husband is not coming back and she took it to the police.

I also think Miriam should stay with the juveniles because they somewhat still receptive to her. At least more than adults seem to be. I also think if the character stays it is the road for her. Young people are still can change or can decide to change, older ones not so much.

Yeah. The crimes nature is not evened out. I mean releasing people who know how to handle automatic rifles and already killed people is not the same as pick pocketing and such. Also i somehow would not even put Bunny on that list because of what i perceived with the prison scenes. He defends himself if he has to but he doesnt seem that violent. I mean his thugs carry guns, he said something along the lines that the boss doesn't need a gun.

I hope Sawyer comes back. I would imagine a similar scenario, that he is needed in Kingstown especially now because i don't think the police is able to handle this heat if the things start to go really bad. I mean if not for Kyle, Ian would have been shot in the pizza place scene. Also from some pictures i have found Sawyer has a new haircut and different clothes that he wore previous seqson and the recent one, so i would assume that there is gonna be a new season. It really would not surprise me if Sheridan already shot season 3. He seems to have a crazy work ethic and people seem to be giving him a lot of trust - they know... -. I hope i see him significantly more. But i also hope for the same for Mikes assistant, Kyles wife and Milo.

I think Sheridan can surprise us. I mean Dillon played the sheriff in Yellowstone and he got into a restaurant hostage situation where he was in a restaurant as a guest when armed robbers came and Kevin Costner and Cole Hauser's characters saved the people and tried him, but he got shot in the chest and died there in the restaurant while trying to reach his daughter for the last time but he died before she picked up a phone... Kind of good scene it was. I really don't know about Ian...it could go either way like with any character in Sheridans worlds. Stevie i don't care much to be honest. In the scene with Sawyer harshly interrogating a criminal and pulling his ear to find out where the guy went who blew up his own kid and wife cooking meth at home, Stevie just straight up laughs and finds this amusing. But i don't know that was the actor breaking character or pure character.

Also i have the feeling Joseph is trying to play Milo. I mean he has a kid with that prostitute girl and it really seems so he tried to desperately get the info out the site worker before word reaches Milo. I find it hard to believe that Joseph is deathly loyal to Milo. I sense he is an opportunistic character, and opportunity just knocked.

It is a pleasure to talk, as always. :)

@minamartin always a pleasure! <3

I agree, I think that the whole box storyline was great. They subverted that same old boring scene that we've all seen already many times in thriller and horror movies, where the wife is just sitting there nervous but doesn't do anything, and gets killed—it's way more realistic for her to be like "uh fuck this I can't handle this" and run to the station to give up the bonds.

100%, Mariam should stay with the juveniles. I would be thrilled if they found a way to connect that to the plot without making the entire point of the storyline just "Mariam is stupid for trying to help people" and I actually have a little hope that they can do it! You can do it, guys! I believe in you! Haha

Yeah, I think Bunny is definitely experienced with violence, because you don't lead a gang that runs drugs and is intimately interconnected with prison gangs and—if I recall correctly?—is involved with sex trafficking somehow?? I'll be real, I skipped over a fair bit of Iris's storyline in s1 just to preserve my own sanity, so I might've misread some of the dialogue there. But I think Bunny must have a serious history to have gained his position. What makes him a standout leader, though, is that he's very much like Mike in the sense that he doesn't particularly enjoy killing and chaos, etc, he just wants the world to run relatively smoothly and for him to be in charge of his own little patch. I don't really know if this is true in real life in regards to criminal leaders, but in SHOW life, having him on the outside is hardly going to increase the amount of violent that occurs, and in show logic, it might even help keep the peace, relatively speaking.

Yeah, I think Sawyer will come back, as well as Mike's assistant. I was talking about it earlier this week and somebody mentioned that MIke's assistant wasn't in the episode, but she WAS mentioned by Kyle as leaving behind a post it note saying she'd be back or something, so surely she has to return at some point, or else what's the point of the sticky note? Milo we need more of for sure. Kyle's wife we at LEAST need once to see how the baby storyline impacts on Kyle.

I don't really think they've already shot season 3, because I think if they did, they'd have mentioned it when Jeremy Renner was injured in the accident. As a sort of "hey guys, don't worry, s3 still a go" way. Like I think right now, they don't have s3 yet, and they're waiting to see how well their leading man recovers to see whether or not they can go ahead with it, and to see if they need to accommodate him physically in the scripting or re-scripting of the season. Renner's not my fave, but the poor guy, seriously, yikes. I hope they can figure something out that doesn't put too much stress on his body.

Hmmm, but the thing is, I think they probably killed Dillon off on that other show Yellowstone because they knew Dillon would have to switch sets eventually to go work on Mayor of Kingstown. But now that he's firmly in Mayor of Kingstown, I only see them killing off Ian if the show's about to end. I also think that Stevie laughing was definitely in-character, as if it was out of character then I think the editors of the episode would've cut it out. It's definitely in keeping with the entire way that the police force (and most of the characters, let's be real) treat violence, like, they really are so casual about it when it's being done to somebody that they can compartmentalize as not being human, someone they don't have any empathy for (which again is most people alas).

Very interesting about Joseph trying to play Milo! If that is the case, Milo may have him killed or something...I don't know, Joseph is really and TRULY not the brightest lightbulb or the most capable guy. I mean come on, how many times has Mike kicked his ass—and Mike's okay, but he's not like the world's greatest fighter of all time, world class judo, he's just a capable guy (which leaves Joseph looking super incapable). I agree that Joseph is just an opportunist, but I am curious to see if this whole baby thing leads him to have any other motivations (such as interest in his family) that will make him clash with Milo.

I also really think that the madam character that Iris is dealing with is interesting...they're clearly trying to spend a little time setting up Iris's situation with what is essentially a combined club and brothel, right? Why would they spend all this time on these dynamics just to do nothing with it? So I actually have a little bit of hope that perhaps Iris will either learn from the women around her, including the madam, or that she will manipulate one of them into getting something—SOMETHING!—that she wants. I see them making a little bit of an effort with Iris, thank goodness, and I want to see where that's leading us.

So many questions and thoughts! I guess I'm gonna end up paying for more than one month of Paramount to see how it all ends, nobody look at me lmao *covers own face*

[when-did-this-become-difficult]

Here i go, again. I have some things to get off of my chest and frankly im curious what do you think!

We are almost halfway season 2 - 1 episode away -, and things still haven't happened, we still not see Milo enough to know what he is up to, we still have not seen Mike actually doing something but at least we got some Kyle and Miriam. Im curious what Mike thought when Bunny told him they are moving them to another prison. That he is bluffing? He seemed so surprised at the end when he found the empty tents. Like i get it, he is a fixer of Kingstown. But im sure there is a major and a senator and such, so the correctional facilities tasks and businesses are far higher than Mike can reach. If could have intervened, he should have by now because now it is out of his hands reach. And also where is my Robert Sawyer dose of the week? I would have bad feelings about this if i would think that the plot is actually gonna move forward - i was afraid that Robert and Ian, and a bunch of guys who are on the side of the law are gonna get killed or seriously injured because they have been mentioning if they loose the prison, they loose Kingstown and then it is really war, but i still don't understand how that could happen and what it means to certain characters. Im a little disappointed so far.

Yeah, I feel like Milo's doing very very little this season still in a way that I find kind of annoying. I was overjoyed that they dealt with the box in the ground! Finally! That seems like an interesting piece of money/power that will maybe end up giving Mike something to work with, because the whole episode he just felt like he was running round saying the exact same thing to every little stakeholder, but not making any moves or decisions at all himself.

I am cautiously in favor of them at least making an effort with Mariam, and I think the new environment of the juvenile detention center might work out a little better than her former stuff. The Kyle stuff I'm also cautiously open to. I found him talking to Mitch being a real </3

I'm a little bit dubious about Taylor Sheridan dealing with release of nonviolent offenders in this way. Am I really supposed to believe that some guy who got arrested for weed or something is really a huge threat? As opposed to—oh well, you know the whole spiel by now. There's a lot more that's caused chaos on the streets.

Not a fan of Sawyer, but I have a happy prediction for you, which is that he'll probably turn up in the following sequence of events: the removal of everyone from tent city makes the leadership lose faith in Mike -> the leadership is unable to keep hold of their people and violence arises again -> Sawyer & co have to go arrest people about it. So he'll almost certainly be in the next two episodes at some point, in my mind.

Ian is one of those characters where I know he won't die because he's played by Dillon, but I'm not even mad about it, he's an easy hang especially compared to the vast majority of other characters.

I again appreciate Tasha Williams's direction, and hope she returns for season 3 (if there is one)

[when-did-this-become-difficult]

Oh now i get it!

Uhm, Beth is basically a character who uses her fathers influentual power to do whatever she wants without very little or no consequences. She swears constantly, talks with people from a high horse, she is arrogant, naked lot of times and talks often about sex, punches her own brother and lot of people actually. She would be an equivalent male character in Sheridans world or something what Sheridan i think perceives as a strong woman. I think oppositely of her. She is a really dislikeable character for me.

@minamartin Ohhh, okay. All of those character qualities sound super fun and watchable for me haha but I think I recall actually seeing her in a scene in a clip on youtube once and finding her annoying, so alas. Luckily I will not have to decide either way as I don't intend on watching the show.

Talk to you later! Maybe after the next episode comes out tomorrow.

[when-did-this-become-difficult]

Well, on the baby...i have a strong feeling that they will loose the baby or something happening to Kyles wife. They put so much emphasis on baby things and Kyle ignoring or not properly handling this relationship, that i feel they usually do this when the character is about to loose what is took for granted.

It is refreshing to see/read when someone recognizes that one on thing there is opposite stance of opinion and respects it. I like you even more for this. Really! :) So many times people try to force their opinion/viewpoint on me and not able to see that it is differ from theirs and it is tiring. But i would add also that im not idolizing certain characters if any. I always try to see it from every possible side that i can, so im not biased or as little as possible. Im not trying paint the dude in the picture of hero of the show, i think there are no heroes on this show at all. And even if were i would not like them. Heros tend to be idealized and the world is not ideal.

I agree on Milos wife. But the interesting thing is the little thing that Milos wife has looked up Mitch or Mike can't remember. Some kind of deal was probably going down between Mitch and Milo, that is what my instincts tell me.

Yeah. I agree. There are literally no good guys here. I feel like it is some kind of pattern that GRRM started with the game of thrones. There no good or bad guys, just what they seem and show. And there is fucking Ramsay Bolton or Joffrey. Like i said Bunny seems to be the less worse of the ones we have been shown so far - compqred to the guy who shot Mitch and what he did with the money, getting high on his couch thinking he will get away with it and Milo who is reaching far further than Bunny seems to.

I agree. Like i said, i love gritty, dark stories with complicated characters. I have no problems with cursing, fights, shootouts, any sort of that but psychological abuse is always freaks me out and makes my skin crawl and rape i think is the only one crime which is at the both times physical and also psychological. It is a desperate and disgusting way to try to enforce your will and force onto another person and it is probably stay forever on the victim like a stigma - whether it be a man or woman. I think this is the most terrifying form of abuse and the guards participate in it is downright makes them a villain in my book, because they should be able to distinguish between lines that should not be crossed. I mean they have their freedom and the perspective of how things go out in the normal world and what is normal, and i think people who get into this little other world that prison seems to be - a small different world where there is only the prisoners and the guards and everything that happens only they know and the outside world never -, should be thrown right into another cell right next to the prisoners, who also commit these crimes againts each other in prison. I just think prison is a really, really hellish place because it is contrary to the name - correctional facility -, does fuck all for correcting behaviour. I mean just in contrast look at the Nordic prison system (Norway, Sweden etc). The "prison" is literally a place where people work so hard to correct and find out what went wrong with a criminal in the first place and trying to fix it so the person can assimilate back to normal society and not do and repeat harmful activities towards other or him/herself. It is meant to correct and kind of heal, patch up what it can with therapists, doctors. Im not american but from what i seen and in this particular instance in the show if we talk about it, that prison is handled the same way as a business, a corporation.

Im not neccesarily blaming him. I mean every director has its finesse. Like Danielle Villeaneuve makes beautiful shots and consistent storyline with constantly interesting characters who differentiate morally but still the audience can feel empathy with each. Christopher Nolan is able to tell a story from start to finish with handling tension so well and genuienly make me tear in ecstatic moments - Dunkirk. I personally big fan of Zack Snyder who can create dark places and characters but still not leaving the audience in the depth of this darkness. Come to think of it, perhaps he should have done this series... So i think Sheridan can understand and bring alive dark, agressive and morally questionable characters and situations, and just wear out the audience almost as he would say - see how exhausting it is to fight all the time, to be angry all the time, what is happening around you and you not even notice, what do you think of people but hey they are actually?! I think he purposefully does this form of agression filled storytelling and he sees it in a way that...like the way i think he sees it women are not having this form of agression, anger and brutality and if they have it is out of desperation - like the inmate with the young guard, also could you explain to me what that killing was about because i did not understood that whole scene, the womans motivation until she talked with Miriam but still, what the guard specifically had done with her that made her act out this way?! So i think he can not write and create strong woman characters because he does not able to see strenght in any other than physical. He sees them vulnerable, sensitive and these emotions i think have no place in his movies/shows - Yellowstone has Beth Dutton which is fucking ridicolous with the so wanna be badass lines and the unneccesary violence on her part, like if you want to see how he imagines a badass strong woman just look at the scene where Beth gets attack in the office. The whole scene is tasteless, disgusting and unrealistic and really shows that he only sees strenght in a physical form, not emotional or psychological one.

I don't blame Iris either. I just fear for her because she seems so regressed and naive despite her past trauma. I think with her it will turn out whether or not Sheridan can or even want to handle a strong female because it can go two ways - the first is Iris becoming a physical agressor by killing someone and he considers his job well done because well now she is strong, or he writes her into a romantic character or love interest for a male character which is basically discarding her character because being a spouse or SO for a male main character is where shitty handled female characters go to die.

Oh, how i love domesticity in tv shows/movies. I like swimming in details so i always appreciate good set and costume design and the nit-picky stuff which shows a little more of the characters and that scene was just like that. It does not take only half a minute of the run time to show little things about characters like this and it is worth it because after all any kjnd of cinematography is a visual experience. Just because the show verse is like how it is, does not mean that the characters does not have a life or hobby.

@minamartin <333

That's a good point about the show putting a lot of emphasis on Kyle taking his wife for granted. But oh boy, if something happens to the baby...I guess I can take it alright but, just, whoof. There's so little hope for nice things in the future, I was really looking forward to the two seconds of breathing space we might have after the giving birth. And I think becoming a dad could be something that changes Kyle in a good way. But now that you mention it, they could definitely go down the killing Kyle's baby road :(

Yeah, American prisons are largely run as businesses, and they didn't even really show this prison doing what other prisons do, which is having the prisoners work on producing goods to sell but then paying them very very little money for it, which is another component that's degrading.

That's very generous of you to not necessarily blame Sheridan...I think I'm perhaps a little less generous because I'm so frustrated by having my brain tickled by interesting and compelling characters and situations, but then not really seeing it executed as well as it could be. He certainly is fixated in this show (along with Dillon) on a macho worldview, but even with that as a focus, it doesn't mean he has to be bad at writing women—while we're looking at male auteur creators, look at David Chase and his the TV show the Sopranos, which was certainly immersed in a macho, misogynistic, violent criminal subculture, and yet still wrote three-dimensional and intriguing women characters who were as consistent in their characterization as the men. Ditto the Wire by David Simon.

I agree that he part of his struggle to value women's perspective and women characters comes from his prioritization of physical strength and violence, for sure. I haven't seen Yellowstone, and I probably won't, so I don't know what the deal is with Beth Dutton—can you explain?

I can definitely try to talk about my view of what happened with the inmate who killed the guard and talked to Mariam about it afterward!

PLOT

On a plot level, it is fairly straightforward.

We know that the death of both the guards--the guard in the men's prison who was shanked, and the guard in the women's prison who was seduced, killed, and falsely accused of rape--were tied together because they occurred at exactly the same time, and if I recall correctly, the guards were blood relatives who shared the same enemies amongst the inmates.

We know that the guard in the men's prison who was shanked was shanked as part of a wider plot to start the revolt. It was necessary for the ringleader of the revolt to be headed for transport out of the prison in order for him to be rescued by the surrounding inmates (who were supposed to be mopping and cleaning) and escape. It was a deliberate plot.

Therefore, all of these three acts: the shanking of the guard in the men's prison, the seduction and killing of the guard in the women's prison, and the prison revolt, were masterminded and cooperated on by the same people.

Now, we do know that there's communication that goes on between the men's prison and the outside world—people get messages and even drugs and money back and forth. So it is not a stretch to imagine that there is communication between the men's prison and the women's prison. Of course, neither the audience nor Mariam finds this out till later—ONLY the inmate (whose name is Cherry) knows that she is doing this to support the prison revolt.

THE CONVERSATION

First, Mariam enters the room and lays all her cards on the table. She says that "they", the prison guards, want Mariam to take advantage of a relationship they assume that she has with Cherry, and get "the truth" out of her. She also says that whether or not the truth needs to come out depends on what the truth is. So right from the start, we can see that Mariam is distancing herself from the prison guards and approaching Cherry with an open mind. She is honest with Cherry about what is going on, and seems to refuse to manipulate Cherry—or at least, she acknowledges that she doesn't really have a deep emotional bond with Cherry that she can manipulate.

Now, the thing that the prison guards want is for Mariam to appeal for "the truth". But Cherry immediately deconstructs that notion. It's not the truth that the prison guards care about, she says, and she widens the whole conversation to be one about the system. She already tried to tell the truth in her life, when she talked about being abused by her foster parents. The justice system failed her then. It didn't care about the truth. And the other morals that the people in authority, like her foster parents, claimed to have? Turns out they didn't have those morals, because they coerced her into having an abortion. So she outright rejects the idea that the authorities care about the truth, morals, or other people. In fact, she says "the truth" is just something to keep her and "people like" her down. In retrospect, this is Cherry giving Mariam a huge huge hint to her motivation—see, the women's prison doesn't get a revolt, but Cherry clearly feels a resentment towards the system and solidarity with the men in the men's prison, so that's probably part of her motivation for killing the guard and being part of this overall revolt plot.

Mariam understands this on a basic level, because systemic injustice is one of the main subjects that she teaches about. But obviously, she knows nothing about the plot.

Cherry asks why it matters, and Mariam tells her that the dead guard's family will get more money if she says that it wasn't rape. You can see that Cherry's surprise and scorn is palpable when she asks, wait, does they really get money for just him dying? Honestly, if she says that she was not raped, then she is admitting to murder—and the guards seriously think she'll do that? All for the sake of giving the guy's family a little extra money? You can kind of see how ridiculous the whole thing is from her perspective, now that Mariam's been honest with her about the situation.

Mariam says that she wants to know the truth, if the guard committed a crime. Now, Cherry says that he did with very very real emotion in her voice and expression...but Mariam still doesn't understand, see. Mariam thinks that this must mean that the guard committed the rape. But what Cherry has been trying to convey all along is that to her the system is already fucked up and is itself a crime—the system that stuck her with that abusive foster family, the system that keeps her and people like her down. It's certainly important background that the whole reason this guard was chosen to get killed in the first place is not a random thing—he messed up several things, including shooting THE WRONG PERSON—a man is dead because of him that probably shouldn't be—I think this is all contributing to why Cherry can say with conviction that he committed a crime. Because he is yet another one of those guards, yet another person in a position of authority, that does his job badly and hurts those under him; and perhaps, because she views all the guards as criminals in a way because they're part of such an abusive system.

BUT. Mariam doesn't get it, or Cherry's worried that she doesn't get it, right? Like Mariam pretty much still thinks that the guard really did rape Cherry, so when Cherry says, "I feel much better" to Mariam right at the end in such a nonchalant and even mocking voice, you can see in Mariam's face that she realizes then that Cherry really did murder the guard on purpose. That's why she seems distressed when knocking at the door to get out. Maybe Mariam doesn't fully get Cherry's message overall, but she gets the very basic bit, which is that Cherry murdered the guard on purpose, but will definitely refuse to admit it on tape. And Cherry's not at all ashamed of what she did, she's proud of herself.

Obviously I'm not pro-murder, but I found Cherry to be a very interesting minor character because of that scene. Unlike the guys in the other jail, she will never herself get to participate in the prison revolt—she will only end up probably suffering under increased guard mistreatment and retaliation for her having killed a guard. However, it is enough incentive for the OTHER prisoners to be free for a second, for her to be willing to kill...

Or maybe I'm reading too much into her monologue and they paid her off somehow? haha. My interpretation is more interesting, though, I think.

Hopefully my attempt at an explanation makes sense!

[when-did-this-become-difficult]

Wow. I love a good, detailed conversation so lets carry on if we can, shall we?! :)

About Kyle i also think that he is kind of an plain-sheet character that can go any way - but he still a little bit too temperamental. I mean he is - and his grilfriend -, are clearly showing patterns how an avarage person would exist in a surrounding like Kingstown. Mike, Sawyer and the bald police guy - don't know his characters name -, are in a different mindset in different phases of their lives or jobs. I find it interesting how Mitch seemed to be the piedestal example, Kyle the promising kid who could go either way, and Mike is the one who it is already to late. The prison riot escape must have an emotional and psychological impact on him. I mean i admit i overlooked that at the moment i had written my response. Probably that is why Mike advised him to move locations for his job. An avarage intensity level job as a simple police officer in a simple town, would be a good place for him to heal a little and get it together, even decide whether he wants to continue his job or not - especially that his girlfriend is pregnant. I don't know about anybody, but if i would be pregnant, i would not want to raise my child in a town like this. I also have a prediction for this baby storyline and it is not good.

When it comes to Sawyer, im just trying to put the pieces together. In the very first episode we can see that he gets a kick out of it, of being an agressor and a dominator. Also in the second episode we get just how shady they are doing their jobs, the police i mean. When they make Mike making a car accident so they can find the drugs on the road and now they have the right to search the guys house and they also getting a kick out of it and Mike has a half broken nose and no clue what he had been driving into. So so far it is obvious that Sawyer is never meant to be the hero but the anti-hero, but for this series i think they all anti-heroes, there are no heroes only out of circumstances and personal involvement - for Iris sure Mike is a hero. But in the third episode they saw that he clearly was upset by the fact that a kid got burned alive by his own POS father, so im not really harboring hard feelings for giving out a few bitchslaps and punches to find a guy that blow up his own family out of sheer stupidity. Also i liked his line - this is your mess and you will suck on it in silence! Because he was completely right. This would not have happened if the parole officer would have done his job properly - it is amazing that the show swings between clueless incompetency and competent corruption. I like the last two episodes because how action packed they are and show the out of box thinking of Robert and i think here it is highlighted how swat and police are differ. Police is suited to de-escalate the easiest way, swat meant to dissolve any threat by any means.

The scene you mentioned i also thought was really weird for several reasons. First one of their colleague have died - also what the heck police were doing in a bust when the whole swat team was there with sound and smoke grenades and all?! - so that already made someone frustrated. And then the shot to the womens shoulder are understandable from a tactical standpoint. If he doesnt shot the women and causes surprise on the criminals end - again the police would not shot an unarmed person...mostly i think -, he would have shot the woman in the head. I would imagine any kind of gunshot wound would be terrible, especially an automatic rifles, but one in the shoulder you might pull off but one in the head, certainly would not. I saw his hesitance to help the women and the scene was left open, because we do not see ambulance or something come. Based on this i thought about what the director wanted to do with this scene? It has been meant to be interpreted this way or they wanted to trust the audience with the interpretation?! I don't know, but certainly it was weird.

But there is another one, the one that had meant a lot for me and still not over it, is the bust right in the first episode of the second season. They tear through some kind of drug cooking establishment, and Sawyer comes out to the corridor and a young boy, maybe teenager stands in the door with a gun that is not aimed at him but still in the boys hand. Sawyer notices him, points his rifle at him and waits a few seconds - maybe the kid will get intimidated and throws down the gun, but he did not. So he instructs him once - drop the weapon. And the kid looks down hesitantly to the gun in his own hand. He does not drop it so he warns him two more times before shooting him. And then he walks there, scales the room for more attackers and looks down on the boy with this sad, regretful, little bit guilty look and says - i only ask three times! And i have so many feelings about this. First, it is a freaking cookhouse with god knows what value of drugs and adult males with guns. Places like this, they don't send the police for the very reasons that these places are larger than a house with a basement and has many gangsters protecting their drugs with guns. What the heck a teenager was doing there with a handgun and what did he expected? I mean i got that some people can remain decisive and fully aware of their surroundings in life-death situations but most of the people just freeze into shock. And this is the sad part. I think the kid had frozen a little bit but also was indecisive about what he should do. And Sawyer had the right to shoot him, since he had a gun he did not dropped it, so out of his perspective, maybe if he gives him any more second, he would decide to fire at him. The police maybe have waited more and tried to have him surrendered, but that is the police and many police officers have died in real life too because they were waiting for someone to put down the gun and they decided to raise it. And in this scene i saw, that there is nothing wrong with Sawyer morality. He knows this is a shitty situation, he feels sorry for the kid he had to shoot but he did it because he wasnt waiting around for him to decide over his fate. Interesting scene that keeps coming back to my head. Also im fine with dark characters - not like Ramsay Bolton and Daemon Targaryen because these types just straight up shitty characters and people. Being dark does not mean being unmoral, cruel or sadistic. At least i think.

Milo im kind of more curious and curious than before. It was clearly well established that he is very resourceful - making cofee in his cell, has attention to detail - the keys part and uniform in the riot, and determined - willing to break "angels' wings to get what he wants. Now that he is out im curious to know what he wants, what his goal is. I don't think - and hope, that Sheridan will fuck this up because Milo is the one who kick starts a lot of things - remember Mitch gets shot because of the money that was supposed to go to Milo or something, then the wife is dead which i don't think will remain without retribution on Milos part - or will i dont know how well rounded the plot is -, Iris, the school bus, the lawyer telling Mike it wasnt what he supposed to find, Mike being set up and not yet revealed by who. It seems to me that Milo is the big bad that has many straws in the spider web that the plot is.

Bunnys character is somewhat not resonating with me that well. He seems like the less shitty type of criminal but he is still a criminal - no matter how many relative he has that he tries to give a better life or a way out of the town With the criminal element and deals and stuff i do not sympatise very much and have no care or sympathy for. Many people live in poverty, suffer abuse often times within their own family not even strangers and they not turn out to be thugs and shooting up innocent people and complain to people - namely Mike, about their warehouses being shot and bla bla. Well, you dipped yourself into this shit, if you like the rain then like the mud as well. With the money you have made you could have moved out of town with your family, set up a normal job and life somewhere else. Thousands of people doing it daily and it requires no violence. But i agree with your take on prisoners. Decent food - and not a guards shit being served on a tray -, isn't should be something that needs to be advocated for. Some of them are act like animals but with that guards acting the same way, they just prove themselves on the same level as criminals and that is a really bad strategy because they did their crimes and if not got busted, they would still be doing it so they are much more immoral than the guards could ever try to be and they outnumber them very heavily. Let's not even start what i think about rapes retortion is rape thing. It is disgusting and the lowest level a human being or a resemblence of one can act.

Miriam i...i don't know how i would handle her character really. I think she should have never written in it because of what you said about being only reactive which means passive, which means things will always happen to her and she will not do anything actively. But im starting to think that this is exactly what Sheridan wants with her character and also Rebecca and Kyles wife, as being some sort of moral stones or anchors for the male characters. They are just observers and receivers.

Iris is the only one who is an active female part of the story and i also does not understand her sometimes. I mean...what she have told about her past and rape, i don't understand the whole of it. I think despite being in an adult womens body she is still only a child, stucked in her trauma - hence she is going back to abusers, wanting to feel false safety again - if she follows Milos rules there is nothing "bad" happening to her, at least that is how she perceives it. That is main reason i don't ship her with anyone. She comes across as a wounded childs character and im not willing, i can not see them in a sexual way.

Yes! On it goes <3 @minamartin

I agree with everything you said about Kyle, but I am not sure what your baby storyline prediction is and i am DYING to hear about it, so, spill!

I disagree with you strongly about Sawyer, but I think that probably comes from deeper disagreements about policing and also the nature of heroes/antiheroes/right and wrong in fiction; so it's probably not productive to argue about it.

Yeah I agree that Milo SHOULD be a very interesting character and if he's half as good as they're hinting he is, I will be so so so happy to watch! I just worry that they're just setting up cool stuff but I'm not sure they actually have the payoff. Like, I REALLY really need them to bring up the school bus again at some point before the end of a season. That's a must. In regards to his wife's death, I don't think Milo can avenge her, because her attacker and killer is already dead at the hands of the police, and he wasn't acting on orders, he was just evil and greedy.

Again, disagree about Bunny; I mean, I don't think he's a good guy, but I don't think literally any of them are good guys,and I can't really get into it without arguing about the fundamental nature of crime vs morality, et cetera.

Agree very strongly about the abuse that the guards did to the prisoners! It's despicable. I think that the show is very realistic about rape—the very opening of the show is a scene where Mitch and Mike are discussing the situation of a guy's son where essentially the guy is in deep fear that his son will be raped by guards in retaliation for having punched a guard and broken his nose, and Mitch and Mike act very normal about it, like this is everyday sort of talk. You really get a sense that not just violence but also sexual violence is baked into the system, with perpetrators being both guards and inmates. I understand that they depict it this way because it's honest to real life, but it's very, very, very tiring and probably one of the things that makes the show hardest to watch.

You're so right about Sheridan. What makes me CRAZY is that he doesn't even do a GODO job about women being only "moral stones or anchors for the male characters...just observers and receivers" as you said. God, it's not even good! Like, Kyle's relationship with his wife is sweet, and I need sweetness in this very dark show, but my GOODNESS it is boring! His wife has no personality aside from loving him! I can't with that...I think we need to take away Sheridan's permit to write female characters just like bad drivers get their drivers licenses taken away. He needs adult supervision. Lol.

Everything you said about Iris is spot on; one of the things that makes me so uncomfortable about her is that her age isn't...really I think ever really disclosed? She claims to be in her early twenties, but that was when she was in a position where she had every reason to lie and claim to be older. I get that the actress herself is of age, but the features she has and the way that they choose to portray her just screams young, vulnerable, not finished growing up, traumatized. I couldn't agree more about not shipping her with anyone for that reason. If they even TRY to make her and Mike kiss...oh I'm gonna throw a fit. It's not right. And what you said about her relationship with Milo is also right; she definitely thinks that if she pleases Milo, that's the best way. Historically, in her life, the worst things always happen when she "fails" him or opposes him. It's a real pattern for her. So I don't blame her really for seeing that pattern and doing what her traumatized survivor instincts tell her to do. I mean this abuse has been going on for how long? Maybe years and years? It makes me sad to think about, and I really hope that she manages to find a way to do this without having to engage in sex work. I really hope the writers manage to do this storyline without me having to skip past brutal scenes with her again. Like it's already so much. I can't.

One thing I'm gonna need from season 2...Mike cooking again lol. Just something simple and wholesome like that amidst the chaos. I need it. But in terms of the prison storyline, I also really look forward to seeing whether or not they're able to find the new leadership they're seeking among the inmates; that seems like a prime opportunity to introduce an interesting secondary character, which I think we could use some more of, since many of those from last season died in the revolt.