#milkvan ily

[gayofthefae]

Mike not even being able to use the word "love" in third person with Will ("If I had said *that thing*") gives me the same vibes as how when I had a "crush on a guy" in like elementary/middle school I wouldn't tell a SOUL. Like it was a VERY big deal it was my deepest secret that I guarded SO tightly. And at the time I always genuinely believed it was because I feared it getting back to them and then rejecting me or being weird about it. But in retrospect, as a lesbian, I think I feared it getting back to them because I worried they would believe it and I didn't want that to have any consequences like...God forbid...them liking me back and forcing me to confront the escapist lie I was telling myself. Because it was only an innocent lie as long as the object of my affections never got involved, and some part of me knew that.

I never wanted to tell them because I never wanted to pursue anything. I just wanted to tell MYSELF that I liked them, because I knew on some level that to get them involved in my lie was unethical. So it put SO much more weight on it that I was tight-lipped to tell even the people I trust most. Many of these "crushes" I had, friends of mine only heard about in retrospect or after months of mustering up my courage just to tell my FRIEND.

Thinking about Mike and how there are some lies you can only tell yourself and the consistency of that in how the lies start to break down whenever he's confronted with them and he becomes frantic and tries to shut down the conversation as quickly as possible so he doesn't have to confront the truth.

[platonicsoulmatesstobin]

"Growing up is realizing that people don't have to like the same things as you"

WRONG. You're not allowed to not like Will Byers

[byleresque]

This thought has been hunting me. People out there insist that Mike still loves El romantically and they're endgame, but in the show El doesn't think so. She canonically doubts these things. She broke up with Mike over it. People watching a show where a character says "we don't work as a couple and he doesn't love me" and deciding that they can make better judgement. We as viewers only see the plot relevant shots and theoretically they hang out and talk in between those, they know each other and their bond better than us as observers ever could, how are we supposed to ignore what El thinks about it all? El and Mike are the only ones seeing the full picture here and if we don't listen to them then what are we even going by? Dismissing her feelings because "of course they're going to overcome it they're the main couple"? Isn't it that IF they overcome it they'll be ONE of the couples in this show full of main characters and dynamics? I don't enjoy this interpretation of canon at all. I'm also uncomfortable with the notion that our feelings don't matter and we're all bound to end in the relationships that are socially expected from us

the way milkman isn’t even for milkman...

it goes so much deeper than El is sad because Mike doesn’t say ily -> something happens to change his mind that she is not privy to (i.e. several talks with Will later) -> Mike says ily and now they are the strongest couple to ever couple.

and maybe i know this because i like to watch shows with my eyes open, but El and Mike did not in fact come out of that stronger!!

anon you are so correct that people are dismissing El’s feelings. she is a girl already insecure because she’s lost her powers, she’s being bullied, and her boyfriend hasn’t told her he loves her in several months (how many?? like eight??) even though she says it in every letter she sends. she is desperate for a win. that, and she has been lying about her life in california for that long as well.

i think we don’t talk enough about El lying in her letters. one of El’s core traits, one of the first things she learned in the outside world, is friends don’t lie. for her to lie and lie to Mike shows a deep fracture in their relationship. she doesn’t trust him. she has doubts. maybe she rationalized it as not wanting him to worry-- but like Mike said, he knows about bullying. he knows about being the black sheep. so why lie?

because El doesn’t feel like Mike is someone she can lean on emotionally because he doesn’t lean on her either. they can kiss and hug and smile at each other but do they talk?? ever??

both of them would rather pretend to be content than admit their one piece of social currency, the only thing that gives them a perceived link to normalcy, is circling the drain. their relationship feels like it’s one wrong move from snapping in half which is, uh, exactly what happened.

and maybe a problem like this could’ve been fixed by talking and opening up, but they CAN’T because they honest to god just don’t know each other well enough to do that. what they have is the result of a puppy love crush stretched long past its expiration date. 

but back to the viewers... i think it’s frustrating/hilarious that people are like yep, they’re good! they may be broken up and avoiding each other, but they’re the main couple so they’ll figure it out :) like?? the amount of awkward milkman keeps serving us is just painful to watch. fun fact i did not watch s3 when it came it out because their couple dynamic weirded me out. i was like. am i going crazy or are these kids going way too fast.

i’ll be real with you anon i don’t think ANY of them have the full picture. El doesn’t know why Mike can suddenly say ily except perhaps overhearing Will encourage him to do it. ouch. F in the chat. Mike is all jumbled up from all the stuff Will has been saying, plus the painting and the GUILT oh my god. that boy ain’t right but that’s a conversation for a different post. and Will (honorary mention for being the #1 milkman truther) has the least pieces but is doing the most and unintentionally pushing milkman further off the cliff.

what kind of dramatic conclusion would that be if Mike and El were just fine in s5? El isn’t going to have any questions? They will suddenly be secure in their relationship? incomprehensible. and i totally agree it’s uncomfortable to think that you should just stick to the socially approved relationship and your doubts in that relationship are completely irrelevant. and i HAVE seen people talk about them as if that’s the only course of action left for them. “ohh well i don’t like Mike and El together but the writers wouldn’t make them break up again” says who?? they did it once! and this sentiment is always said to me with this vibe of the writers not being competent enough to fix milkman. as if every other couple in the show isn’t very well-liked. come on. come on now.

a milkman endgame would feel bleak. you would feel like they don’t have much of a future to look forward to outside of 2.5 kids and tv dinners. it doesn’t feel genuine, it doesn’t feel like THEM. how restricting would that be for El? how depressing would that be for Mike? and i think the duffers know that. i think they realized it would be a downer ending to these character arcs and pivoted in s4 to show Mike happily hanging out with the outcasts in the Hellfire club and El going on a backstory mission to rediscover her worth. all a part of the byler agenda

(so instead of that lets now imagine a byler endgame where they can stand up to the world together-- not mistakes and not afraid to live a little differently. they make themselves better just being together. and now El is free to find herself outside of all the goddamn men in her life. duffers i believe in you)

[bylertruther]

season five isn't going to be the byler show because we all have brains and recognize this is an ensemble sci fi show obviously, but it is kinda funny to hear people argue that because the duffers specifically point out in their pitch that will is gay and gets kidnapped soon after realizing it, then in season one have everyone who isn't "in the know" assume that this occurred because he's gay, thus really linking this realization with his disappearance both supernaturally and also to those outside of the main cast. this means that you can't separate the two. there's more to it of course, but will being gay and the consequences he faces for that is intertwined.

not only that, but they then reveal his kidnapper to be will's perfect character foil--love vs hate, light vs dark, hope vs despair, optimism vs cynicism, freedom vs subjugation, light wizard vs dark wizard, etc.

vecna spends all of season four preying on those who are traumatized and "other". he enshrouds them in their darkness until they succumb to it and believe it to be true, and gains strength from their despair.

what does will spend all of season four doing?

he stays by mike's side and banishes his deepest, darkest insecurities by basking him in his light. he listens to mike's worries and his secrets and tells him no, you're wrong, you're absolutely wrong and here's why. this is who you really are: someone worthy, capable, and strong. don't listen to that voice in your head; it's lying to you, mike. he gives mike hope and a way out of his darkness. he frees him from the grips of self-hate out of the goodness of his heart, not because he stands to gain anything from it.

vecna uses people's darkest and scariest memories to trap them and will uses one of mike's happy and safe memories to help him.

vecna gains strength from pain and rage and will gains strength from love and acceptance; acceptance that he felt from mike all his life and then acceptance that he specifically received from jonathan in the back kitchen.

time and time again, season four made sure to show us that they are two sides of the same coin and will's story cannot be extricated from mike and his romantic love for him, so like... season five is not going to be the byler show, but it also ... kind of is going to be the byler show lmao.

if season five is going to feature will then automatically it will feature mike and if it features them then it will pick up on their unfinished plot from season four and if love and acceptance are vecna's weaknesses and love and acceptance are what byler feel and receive from each other then... how is it not the byler show?

obviously other stuff is going to happen because they're not the only two characters in a romance show, but like ... to act like season four [for them] wasn't all about their relationship, the unsaid things that sit between them, and how will's love for mike is not only what made him able to finally say i love you to eleven for the first time but also precisely the love that he was trying to get from her, and that somehow that isn't going to bleed into season five and be resolved and be the exact kind of love and acceptance that will defeat vecna because will's otherness is rooted in his queerness and season five is literally his coming of age and also he's the focus and we'll be exploring his relation to everything because he is In Fact Actually connected to Everything and always has been is just .... weird. and nonsensical.

[jonathanbyersphd]

@jancyweek2022 Day 3:Love Languages 

[heheidks]

lmao el was really like "bitch please"

[somesaintiam]

bro as someone who used to ship milkvan i can literally say that yes the duffers literally DO want you to be sick of milkvans relationship and that becomes clear in s4. i had a bias bc i never thought such a big show would make a queer ship, byler, happen, but here we are. About milkvan again, i remember literally trying to convince myself that they were cute in s3 and 4, and remembering being confused that mike wouldnt go after eleven after she dumped him in s3. In s4, i was pretty much sick of them, but was still rooting for them. With their ily fight in s4 i was like "mike say ily to her please!!" but guess what. he never did. At that point i was done with them. I didnt really think about their relationship for like the rest of the season and the ily monologue was just sad. I dont really remember what my reaction was but I definitely felt bad for will. And something was off about that monologue. It was my first watch and i never thought to look into it more at the time. But if the duffers didnt want you to be sick of milkvan then why do they always have these annoying conflicts that take forever to get solved or never get solved, and during these conflicts, mike and el dont understand eachother?? But guess which people, in conflicts do still understand eachother? lucas and max, hopper and joyce, nancy and johnathan, most likely at this point vickie and robin, and mike and will. Those are the 5 endgame couples, if it wasnt already clear from the end scene of s4. Im so glad i watched a byler analysis video because now i actually know SO much more about not just byler and milkvan, but the show as a whole.

[doyoulikedem]

"el will be heartbroken if mileven breaks up!" this, "el loves mike and mike would never hurt her!" that.

have we considered that mike already hurt el with all of his letters and distance and absence whilst she was in california (he doesn't need her, after all, and i think that maybe he just isn't accustomed to her being around in the first place, never really having time to, not properly, and instead.. *checks notes* spends all of that time missing will and participating in things that would have reminded him of will and realising that hawkins wasn’t the same without him and that he was spending too much time with el and lost will or something?), and el was already under the impression that he didn't love her anymore, (even calling him out for it, almost phrasing it like she wanted confirmation, not like she was asking a question- see “but you don’t.. you don’t love me anymore?” except the question mark is also more “but you don’t.. you don’t love me anymore.”,) and that el thought that it was "over" already?

she hurt, she mourned the loss of a boyfriend, and cried like the people in the movies she used to watch during the "break up period", but she took some time away from mike - and everyone else - , came into herself just a little bit more, and got over it, mostly. she isn't shown as thinking about mike once during their time apart post-argument. the only part of the hurt that we see having remained in the aftermath is the anger and avoidance of mike, like he avoided her (and will?).

..at this point trying to hold onto milkvan’s relationship is just hurting both of them (and el isn't even the one trying to cling to the concept. *flashbacks to her describing mike as her first boyfriend 👀*).

with the above in mind, i am headcanoning that el had been accepting of the situation by the time they all reunited and would have been able to move past it until a later date, maybe until after the world stopped ending and they (mike and el) could both talk, until the ily monologue happened, and mike saying he loved her then just felt like bullets on skin because she'd already moved on and began her independence arc... maybe even realised that she didn't love him (anymore) either. he was just too late.

but picture it. el, finally getting time to herself without mike, and for some strange reason coming to the conclusion that he might not be in love with her, when she starts paying more attention to his actions without the distraction of him all over her all the time, and with each letter "from mike" growing more suspicious and realising/thinking he doesn't love her, getting continuously more worried, and then getting enough confirmation from the one day she spent with him to feel justified in her concerns and call him out for it.

almost immediately after said argument she then left a *badass* goodbye note to mike, in which i just wanted to point out the usage of "superhero", because i think that's interesting to me. if she was saying it like "so you could love me again", first of all that's heart-breaking and unhealthy, and secondly then why would she sign it "from el" rather than "love", making an obvious callback to how mike was hurting her and making her think he didn’t love her, mike then not giving any good explanations for mentioned behaviour.

mike bringing up el being a superhero repeatedly afterwards, and highlighting it again in his monologue almost makes me think that her being a "superhero" is more personal to her then mike - her powers should not be there so that mike can love her, and him saying "you're my superhero" in the monologue was only salt in the wound for her, reinstituting that he thought that was the most awesome part about her and what made her loveable or “out of his league” or whatever. (another reason why i love byler- mike doesn’t see will as a superhero, but as a best friend first and foremost, and therefore the love he feels for him is pure, and not an emotional attachment to a glorified ideology in his mind, whereas mileven were barely friends, barely acquaintances, before they kissed.)

the "you're my superhero" thing is also interesting, because finn has stated that this was improv, the duffers having told him to do whatever he wanted during the monologue (😭✋) and that he was "very proud" of this line. meaning he's either unaware of the toxidity of mileven, or he's proud of this line because it adds something more, another detail/relevant callback. and i would be surprised if he doesn't know about mileven's issues, seeing as when asked about byler he stated that he thinks will's love for mike is "beautiful", and i don't feel like you would say that without giving it time and consideration and actually thinking about the situation.

but anyways, back to the point i was making. i feel like it showed mike was yet to realise what he was doing, and that he was going around in circles, not making any obvious developments in his thought processes and unable to tell el anything new, apart from rewording their argument (and mixing in some of eddie's speech about recruiting new dnd players from earlier on in the season, not that el would know) but adding in that he loves her, because she had plainly told him that was what she had wanted. he probably wouldn't have even realised or thought to say so otherwise.

now, lets just stop for a moment. if eddie's "i love you, man" to dustin was meant platonically (which it almost certainly was, because urm obviously,) then who's to say that this one any different? mike is often shown as mirroring eddie throughout this season, even in this speech (as mentioned above).

even by itself, the point still stands that this “i love you” could/can be taken in a platonic way, and despite what else you can say, will was IN the shot of mike's first 'i love you' that he’s said to el's face (although realistically it still wasn't very properly to her face,), and had a literal hand on his back, saying to him that "you have to keep going, you're the heart, mike!" when mike.. looked at him for reassurance halfway through, god. (and el probably heard it.)

(also quickly acknowledging the concept of "you have to keep going, i need to hear you say it so i have confirmation that you will always love her and never me and therefore can force myself to try to move on" from wills pov here.)

and alright, so, in conclusion to this point, i think that el was driven to fight back against vecna by mike's 'i love you' in this scene, but out of strong feelings of sadness and anger rather than love and reassurance (neither of which the monologue truly offered, when taken into further consideration. it's just a very desperate, grasping-at-straws sort of confession. and not even like an emotional, angsty, clinging to her, "you've GOT to hold on, el !!!!" + sobbing into her chest, holding her in his arms, inconsolable desperate that we see with lumax. just a desperate last-ditch attempt of communicating his apparent "feelings").

anyways. just some ily monologue thoughts.. (not sure if this makes any sense at all, it’s sort of everywhere, but. idk. thought i might as well share.. <33) remember: mileven is unhealthy, will is not a homewrecker, but the actual reason the "i love you monologue" is a monologue and includes and "i love you" in it, and byler endgame most hopefully. please duffers. istg.

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

If Mike really loved El romantically, they wouldn’t have dragged out a weird plot of not being able to say ILY for two seasons. One season? Sure. I can let Season 3 slide somewhat if one discounts all the queer longing that takes place and the odd finale kiss. You could interpret S3 as an awkward kid building up the courage to say the L word.

But two seasons? Nah. If the first interpretation were true, things would’ve been resolved when El confesses that she loves him back at the end of S3. But things were not resolved? And the show goes out of its way to emphasize that Mike isn’t even writing “I love you” in his letters? And they have a big, explosive fight about it… and he still can’t say it? Nah Michael, I diagnose you with homosexuality.

“But saying I love you is scary and a big deal and yada yada…” Okay sure. Saying ILY is a big deal. But middle school kids still say it pretty casually. And they certainly at least write it. It’s not uncommon for a kid to drop the “L” bomb to someone they’ve only been dating for a short period of time, only to break up the next day. Things are fluid and chaotic and unpredictable and messy. In Romeo and Juliet, Romeo thought he was in love with Rosaline until seeing Juliet, and he immediately changed his mind.

But even if we just assume it’s harder for Mike to say ILY to El because Mlvn is serious and more meaningful than a fleeting crush, that still doesn’t let Mike off the hook. If Mlvn really is as soulmate-coded as Mlievens believe, when have you ever heard of a soulmate-coded relationship in media where the writers went out of their way to show that saying ILY was like pulling teeth? Imagine if there was a whole section of Titanic where Jack struggled with saying ILY to Rose? Imagine Leia got into a fight with Han because he couldn’t write “love” in his romantic letters, and Han was all like, “I care for you so much, Leia.”Imagine Katara pulled out the receipts, and Aang was like, “Okay, okay. Katara, you’re being ridiculous. Like what is this?”

That would be absurd. And you’d either demand an explanation or stop rooting for them. It’s not that ILY isn’t often a big deal in stories. It’s that when it’s emphasized in a weird way and dragged out for two seasons, you have to side-eye it. It’s one thing when the big ILY is the logical and natural culmination of an arc, whether at the end of a season or the end of a series. That makes sense. It’s another thing entirely when someone is literally begging you to say it, and you still can’t say it. And then when you finally do say it, it’s in the penultimate season, and it’s extremely anticlimactic. And everyone has to emphasize how you said it 9 times to cope/compensate.

If Mlvn was meant to be endgame, and Mike really loved El romantically, they would’ve just… shown Mike and El being in love with each other. There wouldn’t be any doubt. None of the other couples, other than Stancy, have ever gone through this weird kind of ritual where words are emphasized over actions. No one doubts that Lumax, Jopper, and Duzie are in love with each other. Jancy is a little more complicated cause they were separated throughout S4 and doubts were raised, but even so, it’s nowhere near the odd situation with Milkvan. Jancy, Lumax, Jopper, and Duzie have all shown they love each other through their actions. They don’t rely on big gestures or words to prove it. In fact, Lucas even specifically says to Max, “I don’t want a letter.”

All I’m saying is, if Mlvn is treated with a considerable lack of seriousness post Season 2, if the show keeps them in a weird Groundhog Day plot of constant fights and lies and not being on the same page, and if it takes a third party with vested romantic interest in the situation for Mike to finally monologue a measly ILY to his girlfriend, then maybe there’s a reason for this? 🤔

[miwiheroes]

Hi welcome to miwiheroes <3

*australian accent* 'Ello this is Eli, president of miwiheroes club and I realised I never made an intro post, also this is a little masterpost where you can find all the analysis/ byler rambling posts without having to scrolls through my account :D

I'm 18 years old (just about to start university im terrified)

he/him

I may look like an aggressively straight man but no one knows i'm actually hyperfixated on shipping two queer guys from a sci-fi netflix show

I'm a capricorn, infp, bisexual and trans ftm

i'm in quite a few fandoms but rn im hyperfixated on byler so... i'm also into the grishaverse fandom, good omens, dan and phil, + marauders

i'm from england

my spotify is 'figflower' and: Here are my byler playlists!!

i have an ao3 and i am releasing a fic rn called "vibrant days (caution to the breeze)"

i never used to write analysis on film but thx byler tumblr because i've been missing out

if you were wondering, my favourite characters from stranger things are (in this order): will, mike, hopper and el <3 okay see ya

MY ANALYSES:

(i will update these as i make them. my more massive analyses are highlighted in blue)

Confirmation that Mike jumping into the quarry was about Will

Milkvan's conflict, Byler, and the concept of understanding

Byler and the insane amount of Closet Imagery

Season 1 Mike is extremely queer-coded

The most important 'Will Voice' scene

Mike's bedroom is insane

FULL airport scene analysis Season 4

What if Mike's gay from the beginning of S5 like Will in S4?

You're not delusional: What I noticed when I wasn't a byler

Thinking about the monologue…

Mike is clearly thinking about Will in the Snow Ball scene

Light is symbolic for truth = byler endgame

Have fun! And if you don't ship byler ur allowed to interact but if you want to hate on it, please don't interact! I'll just delete any hate because I personally think there is no space for homophobia or negativity on my page.

You'll also find 0 byler doubt here. I don't want to worry people. So ily <3

[spicybylerpolls]

All of the teenage relationships are sexualised from the get-go. Stancy's introduction was all about the trope where bad boy Steve just wants to try getting good girl Nancy into bed. Jancy is also immediately sexualised when Jonathan takes the spicy photos of Nancy. And Steve and Robin make booby jokes before Vickie is even introduced. Meanwhile for Stobin, we only really got Steve thinking that he and Robin would be a cute couple but no sexual innuendos whatsoever, hinting that the relationship will not happen because there is no sexual attraction there.

It is initially a bit different for Mileven/Lumax/Byler because they are actually kids at the start of the show. But Season 3 makes such a big fuss about them not being kids anymore and it is coincidentally also the time some of the characters start to make innuendos themselves. Which also means that who they liked as kids is not necessarily who they are eventually attracted to as teenagers.

In comparison to the other teenage relationships, Mileven seems to be a relationship free of any sexual implications. In Season 3 Hopper wants the door certainly not open because he is afraid of them kissing - however, Mike and El never overtly express a desire for sex, neither with each other nor for other people. Milevens like to say "Oh, this means that Mike and El only have eyes for each other" although the sexual implications are completely absent from their relationship.

Of course you could argue that the characters may be demi/ace, but I think especially in Mike's case it is made clear that he is not acespec but a repressed queer (with the Season 4 Episode 1 montage as biggest proof). Some people also insisted (and still insist) that Will is ace too because they are subconsciously so afraid to see any sort of queer attraction on screen. (As a person on the acespec myself, I really long for the day where asexuality is finally done justice on screen. But Stranger Things is clearly a show where they actively contrast lack of sexual attraction and actual sexual attraction with each other. Unfortunately, 99% of media does not include intentionally-accurate representation of asexuality, so right now Stranger Things is not under the obligation to be the show that is suddenly an exception)

This is all so true! People try to argue that Mike and El "making out all the time" is evidence that they have interest in sexual exploration, but A) the show very clearly draws our attention to the fact that he takes his hands off her when they're making out, B) Mike doesn't express sexual interest in the Phoebe Cates, the hot girl of the day, like his friends, C) the show draws our attention to how unnatural it is by having Hopper comment on it, and D) this doesn't progress or increase in any way. In fact, it decreases. In S4, they have one fairly awkward kiss and never show any signs of desire for each other. Instead, the emphasis is on Mike not being able to say ILY to her.

For a ship that's allegedly the main ship, this is all pretty unusual. When was the last time you saw a ship with teenage characters who "only have eyes for each other" yet never show even the slightest sign that they want to explore the physical side of things, even if only 2nd base? It's like Mike got to 1st base and immediately wanted to abort mission and backtrack and never do anything straight again.

Some Milkvans will say it's because Mike is a gentleman, but... come on. Lucas is a gentleman with Max, and the show goes out of its way to emphasize his sexual desire multiple times. Dustin and his girlfriend aren't even in the same state, and she's a devout Mormon, and still there's no doubt that Dustin would round all the bases multiple times in a heartbeat if he got the chance.

Meanwhile, everything between Mike and El looks like a weird, unnatural performance. And they don't even kiss in the desert!

Especially considering the fact that Mike and Will, who are allegedly just platonic friends, do show signs of physical desire. This is what they're like JUST touching arms ever so slightly. Get a room.

[gayofthefae]

Okay but can we acknowledge how wild of a thing "I don't know how to live without you" is to say after 8 months apart (that you acted weird after)

[soft-tender-emotional-music]

okay say queerbaiting or milkvan endgame all you want but i have yet to see any plausible heterosexual explanation for the following

- the airport hug

he was happy to hug will in season 3 and happy to hug lucas in season 4. when the entirety of the show has made it clear that mike and will share the more profound bond (destiel iykyk) out of the party it makes no sense for him to not want to hug him- unless it’s because of his queer realisations atm

- ‘we’re friends, WE’RE FRIENDS’

um it is simply not plausible that mike clocked wills feelings enough to say this yet didn’t pick up what he was putting down in the van speech. bffr mike was absolutely on the defensive here, mans was trying to convince himself

- mike looking at eddie

you’re telling me you watched the scene in episode one where eddie has his ‘if you’re inTo baNd’ speech and still think mike isn’t a homo? he has a lil fanboy crush on eddie and none shall convince me otherwise

- mikes reaction to el kissing him and i love you too

there is no heterosexual reason for him to look so taken aback and distressed after her kiss and her saying she loves him too. the music and els face all suggest a beautiful moment of love but mikes face looks shocked completely contrasting this. esp contrasted against his face at ‘what if you wanna join another party’ and considering his face when he hugs karen at the end of s3. up till then he had made no effort to try and rekindle their relationship but still wanted to see her and talk to her while she was away. ur gonna look at me and ur gonna tell me that i’m wrong

- ‘i care for you so much’

yes i understand that some people have trouble saying i love you- as we see with nancy and steve. bUt the way this is framed in this scene makes it feel queer. he is deflecting he says he cares for her but can’t say he loves her. this is why i’m a gay mike truther this feels like he’s trying so hard to be someone he’s not but he’s reached his limit. he can’t truly say he loves her until under so much duress and pressure. even when he first said ily in season 3 was just a slip up and significance was only given to the words through everyone else’s reactions, not mikes own reaction.

- ‘mrs byers has this new job, mikes always complaining about it’

im sure i butchered this quote but we KNOW him and el only talked on walkies because she couldn’t talk on the phone for dead of the government figuring out she was alive. this line proves mike called plenty and he can only have been calling to talk to will. while yes it is feasible that he was calling as friends, why wouldn’t he say something? leaving this revelation until the last season makes it significant, and therefore makes it romantic and queer.

- shared looks

do i even need to explain. their looks are just fucking gay. especially that one in season 3 where wills like he’s here and mike just keeps staring at him for a good while

- the emphasis on lucas and mikes friendship

they make clear in season 1 that lucas is mikes best friend by mikes convo with dustin. and in season three their status as best friends is made clear because they relate and complain to each other all the time. then WHY throughout the WHOLE show is mike and wills bond given the most focus??? season 1 will is mikes motivation, season 2 he is his priority, season 3 they have an important arc and season 4 they have ups and downs but ultimately their relationship is regarded as most important- they are the only two from the original party who have consistently been paired together. dustin and lucas were both in the hawkins crew but were always in separate groups. there is no heterosexual reason to make clear who mikes best friend js then spend 4 seasons focused on his relationship with will.

- framing

there is no heterosexual reason to frame him in a closet at the milkvan season 3 kiss. there is no heterosexual reason to put a one way sign pointing to his closet. there is no heterosexual reason to pair him and will in the closing shot alongside two other endgame couples. need i say more.

- blue and yellow

obviously this colour symbolism is undeniable at this point. whether or not ppl believe it symbolises their relationship or just their characters, it’s clear that will is yellow and mike is blue. there’s a reason we barely see green clothing or lighting. there’s a reason mikes bouquet to el had purple (her colour) but too much yellow (will). there’s a reason their flannels always have hints of the other persons colour.

- will as mikes priority

instead of coming crawling back to el for forgiveness in s3 he goes to will. he says his life started when he found el (a lie like the rest of that speech) yet when will went missing he only cared about him. all of season 2 showed that he loves will so much he wouldn’t leave his side ever.

i have many other opinions about why milkvan endgame would completely undermine so many messages of the show but yeah i’ll stop for now

[freetobeeyouandme]

Anyway I don't think we talk about the 3 month time skip at the end of S3 which Milkvan spent broken up. Like for us it was immediate that they got back together but Mike and El had three months to get used to not being a couple, then El brought up the ILY, told him ILY, kissed him and moved away. Which I think isn't considered enough when talking about their dynamic, I think.

[pinetreesonfire]

things that wouldn’t make sense if byler wasn’t endgame/canon or if milkvan IS canon/endgame:

- the airport hug (mike made that awkward, not will)

- mike not saying ily to el during the fight abt him not saying ily. might just be me but a pretty obvious way to get out of that fight is to say ily

- the painting. why include it all if milkvan is gonna be endgame?

- the last shot where el is in front and byler is together with the other couples. no show writer would place them like that not on purpose.

- the parallels between both jonathan and nancy AND vickie and robin

- the last shot AGAIN. seriously how does this not convince everyone? it’s what convinced me of byler endgame. if they wanted it, they could’ve had will go in front pick up the flower and el stayed behind with mike. super plausible but noooo, pair them up like couples

there’s more but this is the main stuff i thought of

[will80sbyers]

they knew Will was going to be gay since before netflix took the show, in season 2 Will already had a crush on Mike because it's even in the script and they decided in season two to make it clear that Mike and Will have a really different relationship than all the others, more intimate and they understand each other and support each other many times during the whole season, Mike touches Will's hand and they decided to focus on it with the camera... they made Mike do a freaking monologue for Will, super intimate and emotional for both of them... they knew they wanted this storyline about Will having feelings for Mike since the start and still showed that Mike even having clearly feelings for a girl is way more attentive to Will than anyone else in season 1 & 2... then we go to season 3 and they make Will and Mike have a super emotional fight in the rain that is literally what happens in romantic movies usually... at the same time they portray the relationship that Mike is in as almost frivolous and childish and Mike is finding it difficult to express his feelings + is acting different and leaving his true self behind, thing that they showed Nancy do in season 1 for Steve... they explicitly made both Barb and Jonathan point this out to her... how she was acting different because of Steve... like Mike was doing in s3... jump to season 4 and Mike and El are both pretending to be cooler than they are and lying/omitting to say the ily, at the same time Will and Mike have a SECOND big emotional fight and lots of emotional conversations, heart to hearts with the interruption trope, Will is being the emotional fluffer in Mike's relationship and keeping them together basically by lying about the painting + Mike and Will get paired together all season and El and Mike have a BIG awful fight were they both invalidate the feelings of the other person... Mike makes a love monologue prompted by Will and then they don't show any cute milkvan scene after that, El doesn't react on screen at all except she looks weird at Mike in the cabin and isolates herself....

WHAT THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK IF NOT THAT THEY ARE WRITING BYLER ENDGAME SINCE SEASON 2 AT LEAST???????