#mileapo meta

[discluded]

MileApo x Dior update

Reporters are asking about working with Dior, Po said wait for the good news coming soon. Wait for the official announcement…

Apo: What news will there be coming soon

Q: Will there be any titles coming from working the brand? The fans are wondering/hoping there’ll be a title for you

Apo: Have to wait and see krub. It might or just from the fashion side, it could be from movie, work, or even the film ManSuang, (we’d/I’d) like to stay tune for what’s going surprise everyone

Translation by MileApo Safe Place

I had mentioned in the Dior Gateway to India press roundup that Hello! India might have jumped the gun on announcing the Dior ambassadorship in their coverage or possibly misunderstood the invite... it looks more like the former is the truth now.

Additionally, I'd mentioned this in response to anon about Dior:

Dior might be testing the waters of how much bang they’re going to get for their buck too. I had also thought, given the ambitious nature of Man Suang at international film festivals circuit, a high fashion brand might want the exclusive rights to dress them for all the red carpets, which for BOC could be very lucrative. Putting Mile and Apo in front for Dior seems to be part of a larger strategy at LVMH. LV is the stable brand that drives the highest volume and sets the average, but LVMH has been vesting a lot of effort into making Dior a giant.

Apo's comments seem to be validating that that might be what's in negotiation too.

Finally, on the bang-for-their-buck and digital strategy element, that wasn't just a throwaway comment--! Hot off the press, Lefty.io just published their most influential figures at the Dior pre-fall show (Gateway to India)

This is what EMV stands for:

What Is Earned Media Value? Earned Media Value is an influencer marketing metric that's used to quantify the value of social media content. EMV measures engagement with social media content about a brand that is created by a third party.

I don't care about other celebrities or whatever, but as a point of reference you can look at other EMV values they generated in these tweets for reference: (1) (2) (3)

If you bother to click the tweets, there are some other Thai actors on the list including Bright and Win (from you know. that couple). Mile and Apo clearly still lag behind them, but for a year out of one successful show it's pretty decent, and brands are really starting to see the impact of the Thai media in international soft power realm.

Finally, in terms of Dior's overall strategy, this is on overview of their digital push:

(this one is for SS2023 show, which happened in October 2022 - MA attended none of these shows)

(For FW2023 which is the show Apo attended)

This is why when I and annoying other fan clubs or posters encourage you to engage with Twitter and IG posts - that's why. Brands can see the impact of the engagement directly translating into marketing value and will encourage further high-value sponsors with their projects.

I don't have Mile's numbers for the Pre-fall show nor am I giving this company my info to get it, but I would be surprised if it was below $1M. But anyway, please continue to engage with posts not just on Tumblr. It does make a difference.

[discluded]

Thanks to Cris for giffing this and to Strawberry for translating as always. 💖

I want to point out a nuance/context that seems to be getting lost in what Mile is saying that people immediately jump to the MileApo divorce narrative.

Woody posed a question: what is the thing you are most worried about for each other? Mile responded with a hypothetical.

Mile said: Apo has extraordinary talent and his charisma and talent and tenacity will take him far.

Mile -- like Kinn -- is also responsible for the Romsaithong family dynasty business. His family are super supportive of him pursuing his dreams in the arts and his forray into it to extend his own name/contact list will be invaluable to the family business later, but there is always the goal of Mile leading the family business full time in the future.

He may have the time and capacity to return to acting or music in some doses in between, but he is passionate about business and specifically his family business and will not be able to dedicate as much energy to the arts as he is currently.

This is likely something they already talked about before, but at a certain point, Mile likely won't be able to walk side-by-side Apo in the entertainment industry anymore. For Apo, who was pushed out of the industry because of bullying and malicious rumors, Mile has become a safe space for him whom Apo knows will make him feel confident and will speak up for Apo if Apo is feeling uncomfortable or bullied.

I see a lot of people saying Mile and Apo will go their separate ways after Man Suang or something something, but I don't think it's that. They've always had the opportunity to go separately but are choosing to continue to work and promote together because they want to. But at some point, their dreams and personal obligations are going to force them to go separate paths professionally.

Mile is saying that Apo now has him as his the basis of strong support network so he never has to feel like he did in the low point of his career where he was going to quit the Thai entertainment industry. If! (back to the hypothetical!) IF! Apo ever feels lost or alone again, he can come back to Mile for support.

Mile isn't saying he or Apo are going anywhere -- he wants Apo to know no matter how far he goes, even if it's to Hollywood or to stars, Mile will still be there to catch him even if they're not walking side-by-side anymore professionally.

That's how strong their bond and love for each other is.

Mile's answer is a response to this question from February 2021. Mile really said: you'll never have to.

"At one point he’ll go beyond himself due to his talent and I’ll get too far to the point I won’t be close to him to take care of him as a partner or whatever. At that point, I'll still be here for him." - Mile about Apo

[luckydragon10]

Meta Doc for Man Suang & Shine

I have no chill.

I'm starting a meta doc for Man Suang and Shine. I wouldn't have done it for a movie alone, but since we're getting a series, well, game on.

There isn't enough content to make it worth sharing yet, but I just want y'all to know I'm on it and this is happening.

The dragon rises.

Not familiar with the KinnPorsche Meta Doc? It's nearly 1,000 collected links of Tumblr meta thoughts about KinnPorsche the Series, gathered from dozens upon dozens of fans during the time the show was airing.

[heaven-is-in-your-arms-series]

The Desire to Protect a Loved One

Right at the beginning of the film we see several moments that demonstrate Khem's affection for Wan. He immediately steals something he knows Wan enjoys with an ease that suggests this is far from his first time.

But most importantly, we see this moment between them where he chooses to grab hold of the bloody knife that Wan pulled out of the assassinated noble.

We know that Wan is panicking and clueless about what to do but Khem realises that Wan should have left the knife in and he is the one that attempts to staunch the blood flow until he realises it is useless.

To me, this reads as him being willing to take the blame in that moment. He is protecting Wan at a potential cost to himself.

Of course the guards bursting in are going to see him with the knife and assume he is the killer and not Wan or the long escaped assassin. He is smart enough to realise that but he does it anyway.

So when we jump forwards to the end, I find it really interesting that we then see Chatra perform a very similar action for Khem.

Khem is going through it, my poor beautiful boy. His best friend has revealed himself as a key player in the troubles going on at ManSuang and he is threatening to blow up the whole place and kill everyone, including Khem.

Khem is conflicted, filled with grief, he wants to protect his friend but can see no way to do it, short of ordering him to leave and never come back. Which he tries and Wan ultimately refuses.

So Khem, in a moment of grief and agony, shoots Wan.

We see the shock on Chatra's face above as he stares across at Khem..it was not an action anyone was expecting from him.

Almost immediately, Chatra grabs the gun off of Khem. He doesn't need a gun, he still has his own and anyway, Wan is dead.

The only person he is protecting now is Khem. He takes the gun out of Khem's hand with no resistance..Khem is in a daze and unable to help himself so Chatra does it for him.

Look at their hands touching

One reason and the one that is most reminiscent of Khem's action of grabbing the knife at the beginning of the film, is that, should anyone else walk in right now, it is going to look like Chatra committed the murder and not Khem.

The other is that it is very possible that Chatra is worried that Khem might go on to hurt himself in this grief filled state. He knows Wan's importance to Khem, they talked about it on their date kite retrieving mission and Khem is clearly teetering on the edge.

Chatra's eyes never leave Khem for the rest of this scene, even though we do see Hong looking away in the background as Khem grieves.

Khem will later go on to burn the incriminating papers in an act that not only protects Chatra but also shows a complete disregard for his own life. (Failing the mission was a death sentence. Of course, Chatra doesn't let that happen but Khem had no way of knowing that when he set light to the papers so this shows that Chatra would be right to worry about Khem.) 🥺

So what I am basically saying is

❤️❤️CHATRA LOVES KHEM ❤️❤️

Bonus rambling on Khem shooting Wan

I think (and this is purely my personal ManSuang obsessed speculation here,) that Khem chooses to shoot Wan in a twisted action of kindness for his friend.

He is doing what he knows must be done with his own hands. If Khem hadn't acted, we know Chatra was right there with his own gun and likely would have done it. Something that would probably have been seen as yet another act of violence against him by the Chinese in Wan's eyes, justifying his actions.

I think that's why we specifically see that Wan turns around despite the fact he was originally walking away and sees it was Khem before he dies.

Khem takes on this terrible task for Wan's sake and it ruins him to do so 💔

[waitmyturtles]

Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: KinnPorsche, and Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist Edition (Part 1)

[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. Today, in a two-part series, I offer my thoughts on KinnPorsche, my very first Thai BL, and the impact that I think KP has had on the Thai BL industry since 2022.]

Hot damn! It has been a MINUTE since my last OGMMTVC review, so I'm glad to be back. I've been very much looking forward to writing my thoughts about my recent KinnPorsche rewatch: I enjoyed this ENTIRE process, especially in regards to watching KinnPorsche in the context and chronology of past Thai BLs, and man, did I ever see KP WAYYYYY differently than the first time I watched it.

Why's that? Welp -- *KinnPorsche was my first-ever Thai BL*. (Not my first BL drama ever; that award goes to the GOAT, Kinou Nani Tabeta?/What Did You Eat Yesterday?)

But when I joined Tumblr officially in July 2022, just about a year and a half ago (in the heat of passionately obsessing over Old Fashion Cupcake), my dash was awash, AWASH, in KP posts. AWASH.

I had no idea what the fuck the algorithm was telling me.

I went into KinnPorsche knowing absolutely NOTHING about Thai BL tropes, the history of the genre, the actors in the roles, what made KP so innovative by way of its storyline, NADA. Dudes -- I'm half-Malaysian, and I had never even watched a show from the Southeast Asian region, let alone Thailand, and I was unaware of how prolific the Thai drama industry was (at least compared to the Korean drama machine).

When I first watched KinnPorsche, my perspective was that I had watched a pretty good show, and I was left surprised back then in particular by the No Homophobia Bubble (well, almost no homophobia, Big) that I now know is so much more common in Thai BLs than I realized.

It was through KinnPorsche that I discovered Thai BLs, and it was subsequently through Bad Buddy that I realized that I NEEDED to understand the development of this national genre -- so back to the history annals I went, through my OGMMTVC project, starting from 2014's Love Sick, and here we are at this moment of the timeline, the hot hot late spring and summer of 2022, enjoying the ✨vibbbeeezz✨ between Mile Phakphum and Apo Nattawin, and leaving me wondering why there was a national shirt button shortage in the midst of a Thai mafia crime drama. I'm glad I have history on my side now as I think about KinnPorsche as a standalone drama, and as I also think about the impact it has had on the Thai BL genre and fandoms prior to its premiere, up to today's moment in time.

I took my time to draft this piece partly because I was busy watching Be On Cloud's second and latest serial drama in Dead Friend Forever. I think BOC is doing something very interesting by way of their acting and contracted scripting choices, which I want to ponder by way of the context and aftermath of KP's airing. As such, while I had intended to write just one post about KP, I have a bunch of thoughts that'll spill over to tomorrow. So here we go, a quick overall outline for the lovers for today and tomorrow on my ruminating thoughts:

1) My critical thoughts on KinnPorsche as a standalone drama in the context of the history of previous Thai BLs, 2) My thoughts on how new arrivals to the wider Thai BL fandom shaped the perception of KP vis à vis older Thai BLs, 3) How I think KP has impacted how other studios approach, market, and write Thai BLs now, and 4) A quick passing thought on BOC's own continued influence on the Thai BL genre and industry since 2022, particularly by way of Dead Friend Forever.

I'm going to concentrate on numbers 1 and 2 in this piece, and they're actually going to be a touch conflated, because I want to lean into a now-obvious fact that the BL Elder community knew all along about KP when it first aired in 2022: there was not much that was new about what KinnPorsche was doing. (This is not necessarily a bad thing, as I’ll get into below.)

When I was a newbie on Tumblr, and the algorithm was feeding my dash, I remember seeing posts about how Be On Cloud, the studio behind KP, was doing things differently than the rest of the Thai BL field -- I recall posts about the studio hiring the best acting coaches, how the cinematography was nothing like what we had seen in other shows, and how Be On Cloud was committed to creating safe environments for its actors, particularly Apo Nattawin, who had reportedly faced discrimination in his past acting career, reportedly leading him to leave the Thai drama industry for a number of years.

While some very early Thai BL studios were known to not have the safest or friendliest environments (the filming of What The Duck comes to mind by way of this lore), by the time of KP's airing, GMMTV had strongly established itself as the leader of Thai BL productions, and other players, including New Siwaj and Cheewin Thanamin, had produced quite the number of dramas under each of their respective studio outfits. The industry, by 2020 and 2021, when KP was in its development origins, wasn't new anymore. Acting coaches, such as Aof Noppharnach, were now also regularly writing, directing, and producing original shows, and major BL studios had introduced workshopping as a regular step to production. On the artistic end, studios and writers had established expected artistic tropes -- 2018's Love By Chance is the first example that comes to my mind of when the Thai BL genre crystallized in a structurally derivative piece of art by way of containing and using prior trope references and dynamics.

Be On Cloud, in picking up the KinnPorsche script from Filmania during the pandemic (I use these posts here and here for my non-primary sources of KP lore) clearly knew it had something innovative on its hands by way of producing the genre's first mafia-based BL romance.

But 2020's Manner of Death had already introduced crime and mystery to BL, and 2021's Not Me continued a multi-genre perspective somewhat successfully around romance. And regarding sex and heat: KinnPorsche didn't do that first, either. MaxTul brought it first in 2017's Together With Me, and MAME has owned this corner since 2018's Love By Chance and 2019's TharnType. (Props to MaxTul for being in both Together With Me and Manner of Death; MileApo owe those dudes some beers.) By way of cinematography, which KP does extremely well: we had already begun seeing prestige cinematography in 2020's I Told Sunset About You, and 2021's I Promised You The Moon and A Tale of Thousand Stars.

It was natural, I think, for much of the KP fandom to think that KP was innovative in a lot of these categories, because, like me -- KP was our first-ever Thai BL. By way of money clearly spent on the show, the directorial purview of the show, the utterly gorgeous cinematography (man, that nighttime pull-away shot when the guys are in the roof pool, oof, why couldn't I find a gif), a new fan might think, geez, this has never been done before! But it had, and not just in Thailand, but for years prior in Japan, and more recently in Korea.

This is ALL not to say that KinnPorsche “suffered” because of what I'm uncovering by way of KP's misunderstood innovation. I think a perception of KP being entirely “new” in the BL field has contributed to its lore and enduring influential status. On this rewatch, I appreciated the mafia-based storyline as a support system to the central KinnPorsche romance. Yok being centered as an important mentor to Porsche, played by the inimitable Sprite Patteerat, was refreshing to see. Porsche accepting his bisexuality, especially with Yok's support, without the typical BL head-spinning queer revelation, was a welcome element to the show. And, frankly -- I had, on my first watch, missed, of course, the clear references to Thai BLs of the past in this show, references that I really loved seeing this time around.

From the old school, we got Kob Songsit, the OG BL dad, no longer Tong's dad in the seminal movie, The Love of Siam, nor Dean's dad in Until We Meet Again. This BL veteran is now a damn dad don, weapons and all.

We've also got Na Naphat, who played important side characters in IPYTM and UWMA. We have former BL lead guys in Jeff Satur and Perth Nakhun. We've got guitars and singing, we have underwater smooching, we have a cute-cute first date. We arguably have questionable kabedon in Kinn's and Porsche's first intimate moments. We have cooking for your lover, we have feeding your lover, we have the towel-drying of the hair. KP, by 2022, keeps up with Idol Factory's Secret Crush On You in prominently featuring a femme-presenting side character in Tankhun, PHENOMENALLY ACTED by Tong Thanayut, who we had seen previously in TharnType.

KP was, in part, directed by Pepzi Banchorn, who served as an assistant director on 2019's Dark Blue Kiss and 2021-22's Bad Buddy, and had a quick guest spot in 2022's The Warp Effect. KP was also, in part, directed by Khom Kongkiat, who played Uncle Tong in Bad Buddy, and subsequently directed The Promise in 2023. AND, finally, one of the KP screenwriters is Bee Pongsate, who has co-written so much flippin' BL: Last Twilight, Bad Buddy, Dangerous Romance (😬), Vice Versa, My School President, A Tale of Thousand Stars, 2gether and Still 2gether, and that's not even scratching the list -- you get it.

KP's supporting cast and crew was simply stacked with BL vets, who clearly knew the scene, and who helped to support Mile Phakphum's rookie acting and Apo Nattawin's return to the screen. I'd posit that this group of people knew EXACTLY what references they were putting into KinnPorsche, from actors to tropes, and also knew when, where, and how to innovate around those references to still make this show unique.

Certainly, KP's approach to sex and heat -- by way of Kinn's and Porsche's first drunken encounters (hi again, MaxTul), the uncut intimate scenes between them, and Vegas's and Pete's union by way of, well, semi-torture and/or kink -- was bold enough to be overall quite notable. But again: Thai BLs had been pushing that envelope for years past, and it has continued to do so in shows like MAME's Love In the Air and GMMTV's Only Friends.

In other words: after this rewatch, with the history of the older Thai BLs I've watched under my belt, I don't see KinnPorsche as firstly innovative. But I appreciate the show differently now, in particular for how very obvious it worked to include past Thai BL references in its production, and I actually gained a different appreciation for it.

I also want to made a quick tangential note about Apo and Tong specifically by way of innovation. Dr. Thomas Baudinette, a long-time BL fan and academic researcher on Thai and Japanese queer media, notes in his book, Boys Love Media in Thailand, that an ideal trajectory for a Thai BL actor is to debut in BLs in order to transition to more popular primetime het Thai dramas, as Gulf Kanuwat of TharnType, and Ohm Thitiwat and Kao Noppakao of UWMA and Lovely Writer, respectively, are notably doing at the moment. Apo Nattawin did this the other way around: he had established his career in het lakorns, most notably in 2015’s major hit drama, Sut Khaen Saen Rak, and subsequently left the Thai drama industry after reportedly being discriminated against for his skin tone and fashion choices. And his way back to the industry was through BLs. Taking the lore of Mile Phakphum recruiting Apo for KP out of the picture for a moment: I think this indicates a shift in how BLs are increasingly perceived in Thailand, and even globally, as being a career-worthy genre of content on its own for actors. (Apo's exploding fashion career is proof of this.) And BOC has now recruited another lakorn vet in Jes Jespipat for its third upcoming drama, 4 Minutes.

As well, Tong Thanayut’s very public coming out after the conclusion of KP’s airing is notable for how Be On Cloud has continued to center Tong in its productions after that fact, most notably in 2023’s film, Man Suang, while other out BL actors are not as lucky by way of guaranteeing and attracting future work.

I have a lot more to say about KinnPorsche's and Be On Cloud's impact on the current Thai BL industry, and how I think that impact has affected the marketing and creation of more recent shows like 2023's Only Friends, and 2023-24's Playboyy. But this first post has gotten long, and I actually haven't written much about the actual show itself, HA. So let me say this:

I think it's notable that the first shows that played around with themes outside of romance, like 2020's Manner of Death, and 2021's Not Me, were not perfect shows. We see now how multi-genre BLs are just exploding, what with Dead Friend Forever and the upcoming slew of vampire BLs that are going to drop (and let's not forget the first omegaverse BL drama in Pit Babe -- or should we forget it, I dunno). Not all of these shows are perfect, but the genre has only been around for a decade. There's a lot of time, and a tremendous amount of interest and funding, that upcoming shows can leverage to become better, especially these multi-genre shows that we're seeing more of.

KinnPorsche as well, was not a perfect show. I have some thoughts particularly on VegasPete to offer tomorrow, and I think, overall, that KP could have easily been a shorter series with more impact.

But I'll still give the show some of its flowers, because I think, unlike MoD and Not Me, that KinnPorsche did a better job of centering the Kinn and Porsche romance for dramatic effect, particularly by leveraging comedy. Were there many moments of hibbly-jibblies? Oh, totally. Dudes, also, Kinn fucking forgot about Pete! Pete coming back to the house and reminiscing about Vegas while holding his neck? Eeeeyikes, no thanx. There were a number of these weird bumps that I think could be explained by way of intentional camp (which I think KP did pretty well), but I do believe the show could have been tighter with more editing.

But, I gotta admit: I had a great time re-watching KP. That says something. Was it the heat that tiddled my dopamine cycles? Probably, somewhat. (No shame in my game.) Or -- a more reasonable theory, ha, is that Apo, as a veteran actor, demonstrated more range than I originally remembered. He can really do comedy well, and he timed his comedy perfectly for the absurdities that peppered KP through the series (the bread crawl, the constant throwing of hands, the jumping-on-Kinn when the ghost of Pete showed up, oh shit we're in the forest now, etc). Apo and Tong, in particular, stayed true to the bit many times during the show, and I think the series benefitted greatly from their collective comedic talent and timing -- which I thought was nicely refreshing for the genre.

With that, I'll have more ruminating tomorrow about the show itself, about how I think the impact that KP and BOC have had on the genre after KP's airing, and other thoughts about the cultural moment that KP demarcated when it aired -- see you tomorrow!

[MORE MORE MORE KP tomorrow! And I'll have more thoughts about the watchlist then. But for now, here's the classic OGMMTVC list for you to chew on!

1) The Love of Siam (2007) (movie) (review here) 2) My Bromance (2014) (movie) (review here) 3) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here) 4) Gay OK Bangkok Season 1 (2016) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 5) Make It Right (2016) (review here) 6) SOTUS (2016-2017) (review here) 7) Gay OK Bangkok Season 2 (2017) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 8) Make It Right 2 (2017) (review here) 9) Together With Me (2017) (review here) 10) SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS (2017-2018) (review here) 11) Love By Chance (2018) (review here) 12) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) (no review) 13) He’s Coming To Me (2019) (review here) 14) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) and Our Skyy x Kiss Me Again (2018) (review here) 15) TharnType (2019-2020) (review here) 16) Senior Secret Love: Puppy Honey (OffGun BL cuts) (2016 and 2017) (no review) 17) Theory of Love (2019) (review here) 18) 3 Will Be Free (2019) (a non-BL and an important harbinger of things to come in 2019 and beyond re: Jojo Tichakorn pushing queer content in non-BLs) (review here) 19) Dew the Movie (2019) (review here) 20) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) (review here) (and notes on my UWMA rewatch here) 21) 2gether (2020) and Still 2gether (2020) (review here) 22) I Told Sunset About You (2020) (review here) 23) YYY (2020, out of chronological order) (review here) 24) Manner of Death (2020-2021) (review here) 25) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here) 26) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake Of Rewatching Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (re-review here) 27) Lovely Writer (2021) (review here) 28) Last Twilight in Phuket (2021) (the mini-special before IPYTM) (review here) 29) I Promised You the Moon (2021) (review here) 30) Not Me (2021-2022) (review here) 31) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here) 32) 55:15 Never Too Late (2021-2022) (not a BL, but a GMMTV drama that features a macro BL storyline about shipper culture and the BL industry) (review here) 33) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) and Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (2023) OGMMTVC Rewatch (Links to the BBS OGMMTVC Meta Series are here: preamble here, part 1, part 2, part 3a, part 3b, and part 4) 34) Secret Crush On You (2022) (review here) 35) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here)  36) KinnPorsche (2022) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For the Sake of Re-Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist

...interrupting the OGMMTVC list here to watch War of Y (2022) (watching) in chronology to decide if it gets listed...

37) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here) 38) The Eclipse OGMMTVC Rewatch to Reexamine “Genre BLs” and Internalized/Externalized Homophobia in GMMTV Shows  39) GAP (2022-2023) (Thailand’s first GL) 40) My School President (2022-2023) and Our Skyy 2 x My School President (2023) 41) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here) 42) Bed Friend (2023) (tag here) 43 La Pluie (2023) (review coming) 44) Be My Favorite (2023) (tag here) (I’m including this for BMF’s sophisticated commentary on Krist’s career past as a BL icon) 45) Wedding Plan (2023) (Recommended as an important trajectory in the course of MAME’s work and influence from TharnType) 46) Only Friends (2023) (tag here) (not technically a BL, but it certainly became one in the end) 47) Last Twilight (2023-24) (tag here) (on the list as Thailand’s first major BL to center disability, successfully or otherwise) 48) Cherry Magic Thailand (2023-24) (tag here) (on the list as the first major Japanese-to-Thai drama adaptation, featuring the comeback of TayNew) 49) Ossan’s Love Returns (2024) (adding for the EarthMix cameo and the eventual Thai remake) 50) Dead Friend Forever (2024) (thoughts here) 51) 23.5 (tag here) (2024)]

[discluded]

A couple of thoughts:

1) lol just noticed us cute pokemon icon bitches out here writing long-haul essays about media and cultural impact

2) Adding another data point: SHL (Word of Honor) which also had an outsized impact with the international audience also aired Spring 2021. I actually thought it aired 2020, but that would have a real competitor to 2G. I think the success of both CQL and SHL validates your comment about the desire for high fantasy/strong queer storytelling and high production values in BL. (I also have some strong stankface comments for people, esp westerners, who don't consider CQL and SHL BLs that mostly center around the implication of claiming queer storytelling that circumvents government censorship isn't queer, and what they think about queer people who live in places with highly discriminatory policies against queer people, esp those who choose to live openly.) SHL's impact was slightly smaller and its impact was cut short by ZZH's situation which stopped the promotional process overall.

3) Kinnporsche is an outlier in the same way that CQL(/MDZS) was an outlier, and statistically speaking, it's impossible to predict when outliers will happen. We can write all the essays we want about what Mile, Apo, Pond, the sponsors etc. all thought would happen but Kinnporsche 's impact is fairly outsized. MDZS's success with international audiences dragged up the prominence of MXTX's other works and danmei as a genre internationally, and we see that effect for Kinnporsche as well -- with many people going back and watching other Thai BLs and being disappointed over the storytelling/production quality. The impact of MDZS hit most closely with MXTX's other works and It's likely to be the same with BOC/MileApo's projects. MA also are able to keep the moment going in a way that the TGCF production (drama and donghua) teams seemed to have stalled due to all the red tape around BL.

4) Alongside storytelling and production value, one thing that can't be overstated is the importance of actor chemistry in the role of the success of all the series we mentioned. It didn't fit into the other essay, but the fact that Thai BL industry encourages successful actor pairings to continue working and promoting together is actually beneficial to the momentum of productions because they come in with built-in fanbases. I think one of the rare elements of MA's success is that domestically they've also broken the barrier on actor-couple pairing that might typically be limited to straight couples that promote together too (based on what some Thai tlers have mentioned). This cuts down on some preproduction time since rehearsals to build actors' trust with each other is contnuously improved upon instead of built from the ground up each time. This is also in contrast to the CBL productions where there seems to be desire to distinguish yourself from your pairing partner almost immediately after the production cycle ends.

Anyway, thank you for putting together your thoughts... the impact of two interntional queer cultural phenoms so close together is interesting. Brave new world, huh.

tldr: bitches want gay shit, not het shit, with data and numbers to back it up; bonus Bible’s booty

so thinking about @discluded​‘s essay on Mile and Apo’s upcoming historical drama, and Thailand’s bid for soft power got my brain thinking thoughts. I’ve talked about Thailand noticing the soft power of their BL media before along with why I think Chinese, South Korean, and other East Asian media (from television to novels, etc) are popping off in popularity in the last 5 years or so. Idk where those posts are and I’m to lazy to link them thus is life

The point! The point is tho reading discluded’s post made me think about F4 Thailand. Ironic, I know, since F4 is a het drama based off Boys Over Flowers a shojo manga from Japan that was released in 1992 and ended serialization in 2008. 

Firstly, Boys Over Flowers FACINATES me b/c the god damn chokehold this series has on various Asian countries. I told a friend it’s comparable to like, Romeo and Juliet, in that it’s been adapted, remade, re-adapted, re-booted, re-imagined, and so on over and over and over again. Like there’s audio dramas, there’s films, there’s multiple live action TV shows, there’s an anime. Japan’s made two feature films, and two seasons of a TV. Taiwan had two seasons of a TV show, Korea had a tv show, China had two versions of the same show (one was a remake), Indonesia had two tv shows, India had a tv show, and finally Thailand was the latest to adapt it into a TV show in 2021 - 2022. The legacy of this story can’t be denied. 

Now, my point? Okay so my point is I witnessed online the marketing for F4 Thailand in real time. It was interesting to me b/c I very rarely - and have not since - seen a ton of talk about a Thai drama that wasn’t BL or a horror or action film. 

When it comes to the Thai film industry, the three genres I see discussed are: BL, Action, Horror. You can see this in what Netflix (America) offers in regards to Thai series specifically what ones they dub which shows like: Girl From Nowhere (which Netflix invested in a s2 and is a thriller/horror drama), The Whole Truth (a horror film), and Thai Cave Rescue (which they also have a documentary based on). Netflix is still (STUPIDLY) reluctant to purchase a license for any SK or Thai BL content (I know Semantic Error would blow the FUCK up on Netflix you idiots!!!) probably b/c investors are like, hmmmm but would gays of color sell? I would say they also have Your Name Engraved Herein but that’s an easier sell b/c its a drama and has more of that classic gay Oscars vibe (this isn’t an inherent bad thing don’t come for me). 

Okay back to my point I s2g I have one. 

So marketing for F4 Thailand was interesting b/c I actually saw it. I don’t see marketing cross over into my international waters for Thai het dramas. What helped this, and I fully believe this was done purposely, is the casting of Bright and Win who gained international popularity from 2Gether. Like, it seemed pretty obvious to me that casting Bright and Win was a bid to peak the interest of the international market, combined with casting them specifically in an adaption of one of the most famous and well known Asian romantic dramas of the last 30 years or so. This show was set-up to be A Hit. 

But I don’t think it really worked internationally; bare with me, numbers time. 

Now, ratings for F4 averaged at .441% on Thai TV, higher than Bad Buddy (which aired on the same network) which averaged at .121% and Kinnporsche which averaged at .314%. 

I compared F4 to these two shows specifically b/c they aired in a similar timeframe (all three shows aired over the course of 2021 - 2022 except KP which only aired in 2022) and arguably Bad Buddy and Kinnporsche were the biggest BL shows in Thailand in those respective years. 

F4 also did well in the Philippines, and ended up dubbed into Filipino, and it’s scheduled for re-broadcast in 2023. Honestly, it’s difficult to see how well F4 did internationally as there’s not a ton of information available on it. When I google “F4 Thailand reception” there’s not a lot of results, if I google “boys over flowers Thailand reception” I get this: 

ngl I think it’s pretty funny that one of the top four most asked questions is if F4 is BL and again, it’s def b/c of Bright and Win’s casting. But given that there’s not a ton of information available, I glean that F4 didn’t do great in the western (American/Latin American/European) market. Not to say it didn’t do well. 

On Google ratings: F4 Thailand lands at a 4.9 rating with 2619 reviews/ratings and Bad Buddy stands at a 5.0 with 1085 reviews/ratings

On MyDramaList F4 has a rating of 8.5/10 from 11,982 users, and Bad Buddy has a 8.5/10 from 26,445 users

On IMDb: F4 has a rating of 7.8/10 from 2.3k users, and Bad Buddy has 8.8/10 rating from 5k users

This isn’t a comparison about quality, but activity. I’m not here to make judgements on either shows quality, but rather international impact and relevancy. Outside of Google, Bad Buddy has more active users who left a rating or review on the website than F4, almost double in fact. 

If you go to GMMTV’s official Youtube page and look at the most popular videos on the channel it’s majority….2Gether. Like my god so much 2Gether the CHOKEHOLD this show had on y’all:

More date and a comparison of F4 and Bad Buddy’s international numbers below, we’re getting into the meat now. 

Keep reading

[matan4il]

Some days, coming home, getting on Tumblr and looking at my activity log, seeing people liking and reblogging, commenting in replies and tags on posts I've shared from different fandoms or dealing with different subjects, it's like...

It's like I prepared a buffet before I left my house for work that morning, I opened a gigantic table in the living room and I put there every dish and drink I could think of, just a huge assortment for whatever people's taste in food might be, I sent out invitations to all of my friends and left the door open for them. Then I came back home to find them all eating and drinking in my living room, enjoying the different dishes, chatting away happily... and most days, being disabled, I don't have the energy to join the buffet. I go and lie down to rest in my bed. But I can hear the chatter from the living room. And it makes me happy. It just makes me so, so happy.

Thank you for coming to my buffet, friends.

[morose-marble]

Amidst my pondering Khem, thoughts of Chatra are unavoidable, which then leads back to dissecting Khem. This one's particularly incoherent lol

The scene in which Chatra reveals that he is Suthin Borirak's son is one of immense emotional weight. Khem has found connection and trust specifically in believing that Chatra is of the same social class as him, to the point of mentioning it verbally more than once. He has, after all, good reason to be distrustful of nobles, with his history of being exploited being what it is. He has (very recklessly) trusted someone who has been lying to him about their motivations, in addition to them being of the class that oppresses him.

He should be livid, simply on a knee-jerk emotional level. However, we don't really get to see the extent of the confession's emotional impact on Khem aside from the restrained disappointment of his expression and voice during the dialogue and the burst of resentment during the argument in the storage room with Hong present. Instead, we are shown Chatra's emotional turmoil, and immediately jump to Khem extending the olive branch (Ruang) to him in the next scene.

It's been established that Khem is an empathetic, caring person, what with his commitment to protecting Wan and his defense of the courtesans. Him indicating that he cares for Chatra, narratively so soon after this revelation, makes sense characteristically. It also reinforces the audience's understanding of Khem's history of controlling his emotions to maintain a social situation's balance, even at his own expense (pretending to enjoy submission to the whims of social superiors), as it has been his primary method of survival.

He expresses disappointment and anger, but in a very subdued way. In fact, he stares down the barrel of the pistol calmly, as he denies Chatra's demand to give him the papers. He barely raises his voice and does not interrupt Chatra as he tells him his side of the story.

The revelation that Chatra is of noble descent makes him put up his guard, instead of freely expressing how betrayed he feels. He both latches on to the uncharacteristic sorrow and fear in Chatra's demeanour, and shuts off simultaneously, feeling empathy, yet wary enough to make sure that he does not appear vulnerable. He automatically puts his own pain and feelings of betrayal on the back burner to deal with the immediate situation, without taking up too much space. That's compelling.

However, it is mostly an issue of pacing that there is not enough time for the audience to see him process what a significant betrayal this is to him, beyond the later argument between him and Chatra in the storage room. Furthermore, the following scene with Ruang pushes his feelings aside narratively as well, as he sees Chatra's pain at the revelation of his father being a corrupt official, and chooses reconciliatory action. He could have put Rueang down and left, to avoid Chatra, but chooses instead to stay and make eye contact, signalling, if not forgiveness, at least an openness to it. The film communicates that Chatra's pain in this situation take precedence over his, for the sake of that particular moment in the story.

Because we do not effectively get to see Khem experience the conflicting emotions of betrayal and sympathy in private, we do not get a sense of the exact depth of his feelings. It's the same with the scene in which he opens up to Chatra in the tree. He makes himself very vulnerable, but he does it in a matter-of-fact tone, recounting the tragedy of his life numbly, both because allowing himself to feel that pain every time he is forced to acknowledge it would incapacitate him, and keeping his cards close to his chest is his primary mode of operation.

The storage room argument, and the open anger when he finally lashes out, is the unprocessed resentment boiling over at the prospect of burning the only thing that could free Khem from his position, and thus making Chatra, in his eyes, just another self-serving nobleman taking whatever he pleases from him. Chatra has already lied to him, and to add insult to injury, dares privilege his own family and some nebulous idea of morality over the magnitude of what is at stake for Khem and Wan, despite knowing what's in store for them. He finally shouts at Chatra, but even that burst of anger is brief, quashed by Hong's intervention, because their infighting is not productive to their shared goal. Again, Khem's feelings (as well as Chatra's, but nonetheless) are set aside in favour of advancing a goal.

I would have loved to have seen Khem have a sustained moment of messy, emotional honesty about the way Chatra hurt him, to see Chatra have to reckon with his role in the system that has rendered Khem in the situation he is in.

I assume it is Wan's death at Khem's hand that makes Chatra understand Khem's plight on an emotional level and prompts him to put Khem's safety ahead of his own interests. Khem in turn, has lost the will to care about his, the loss of the closest thing he has had to family plunging him into despair. Khem decides to reject the title that he has fought so hard for, because he doesn't see value in it anymore. Since he is free of the murder accusation, he is ultimately faced with choosing to opt in on the political games of the upper classes that have made his life hell with the slightest chance of making a difference, or keep his sense of integrity as phrai and enact change from the ground up. Khem never truly wanted power in the way that the upper classes conseptualise it: over others. In fact, all he wants is to express himself freely, as he is. I'm very intrigued as to whether this is a theme that will spill over into Shine.

What is Chatra going to be like in Shine? Who is he? What does he want? How is he going to go about getting it? What kind of power does he have, and how does this affect his relationship to Khem beyond the tiny glimpses that the film gave us? Will Khem finally be able to put his feelings first? Guess we'll have to stay tuned lol

[absolutebl]

I found your blog tonight and I'm rummaging through it like a raccoon come across the best foods he can get his little paws on

Weird analogy aside, i adore the amount of thought and effort you put into your posts (the posts about how BL isn't really made for queer viewers really resonated). I came here looking for some quality reccs, and I'm definitely gonna try some titles.

I am, though, at my heart, a Kinnporche girlie (for now) and I was scrolling through your posts about it and saw something that talked about mileapo and playing up the media relationship aspect. You referenced two other actors who did the same, and I'm not sure if you've gone into this before, but I'm really curious about how actors use their media personas for a specific purpose? (Utilizing the parasocial craze, I suppose.)

Hello hello, and very much WELCOME.

Let me see I have quite a few things on pair branding (as I've evolved to calling it) I'll unearth them for you...

Oh wait, I did a meta guide, YES, go past me. Here you go!

You'll find a lot of these are pre KP but the KP boys are using many of the same tactics and traditions.

I rarely directly discuss KP because the fans here on tumblr can get a bit too rabid and then I have to get the ban hammer out. You'll notice I almost never use the tag, for example.

I did do this post tho: 10 BLs to Watch if You Loved KinnPorsche

[discluded]

@iffervescent not the went but the where at least. the when does exist somewhere out there but is currently out of my grasp

Inspired by this amazing post on the Rosewood Bangkok, one of the locations for the main family’s home,

I decided to make a list of filming locations I’ve found in Kinnporsche.

This is in no way completely accurate, nor complete.

- The boat where Kinn asks Porsche to be his bodyguard and Porsche jumps off instead

- The we’ve-got-company bridge

- Hum Bar (Yok’s Bar)

- Kinn running for his life before getting to Hum Bar (Yok’s Bar) and asking Porsche for help

(- Minor building cameo: the Atheenee Hotel, which is beside The Deutsche Bank building)

- Ferry pier first kisses

- Ending their first date at their first kiss spot + Kinn’s first love makes his unwanted appearance

- Kinn and Porsche on their honeymoon in the jungle

- The quarry part of Kinn and Porsche’s honeymoon (and probably the truck and not-Not Me jump)

- Entrance to the minor Theerapanyakul family’s home

- Vegas tries to go on a date with Porsche but gets cockblocked

- The Theerapanyakul horny jail

- Arm’s work room, aka Team Porsche’s HQ

- Porsche and Tawan talk about… milk

- The first bathroom Kinn and Porsche make memories in, together with Kinn’s assassin

- Kimlock Holmes’ home

-That first sex scene

- That auction

- Room where the main family strategises + the mafia prince declares his love for a certain bodyguard

- Kinn and Porsche play footsie

- The undercover casino scene

- Post-shoot out party at Vegas’ home

- The back of Hum Bar (KP’s first meeting & declaration of love + VP’s meeting after Pete’s escape)

- Their “mutual masturbation” scene

- “Jom” takes Kinn’s watch

- The hospital, where Tankhun is iconic and dramatic, Kinn and Porsche are loving and Vegas, Pete and Macau have a group hug

- The underpass tunnel that Kinn and Big run to while being pursued

- Kim’s personal rehearsal room

- Porsche’s instagram boyfriend era + Kinn and Porsche’s cafe date

- Mes’ house + Kinn makes an animal friend

- Vegas and Pete’s poolside scene

- Scenes at the fictional Ananthamekha University

- Porsche’s Mulan training sequence with Team Porsche + Kinn and Porsche’s underwater kiss

- Kinn and Porsche celebrate their relationship + Kim protects Chay who is in his unhinged era

- Kinn and Pete watch Porsche and Vegas zoom away on Vegas’ bike

- Have no fear, Kimlock Holmes / Detective Wikachu is on the temple case!

- Porsche and Porchay’s home

- The shooting range where Kinn made Porsche put an apple on his head to shoot at

- Mr. Don makes gelato talk with “People say I’m more like my mum” Kinn

- The iconic scene where Tankhun hits Vegas with a tray

- Either Pete needs more lessons on how to follow or Vegas and Macau just have great observational skills

- The minor family’s torture chamber

- Tawan’s room

- Porsche and Pete’s bedroom

- Porsche and Pete’s room minus their bedroom

- Porsche catches up on sleep during his training with Chan

- Porsche’s orientation and introduction to the main Theerapanyakul’s other bodyguards

- Vegas’ clothing-optional office

- The minor Theerapanyakul family’s home

- Kan getting ahead of himself and prematurely celebrating Korn’s death

- Kinn and Porsche make merit together but are interrupted by a not so dead Tawan

- Part of the main Theerapanyakul house

- The room where Namphueng was kept (featuring the players on the chessboard)

- The one and only Deutsche Bank (Not my post)

- Jeff Satur’s Why Don’t You Stay music video

- Kinn goes to meet the loansharks, who were making Porsche pay back his (fake) uncle’s loans

- The finale scene on the boat with visual call backs

My alternate masterlist sorted by the IRL filming locations

- A quick wrap up of the locations that were not included

[liyazaki]

a scene™: on rage, regret & yes- joy

I already wrote a tag novel on this but I can't get this scene out of my mind & it deserves a deep-dive, so- buckle up, kids.

the heartwrench started in earnest when Vegas stormed out of the bathroom and Kinn turned to- or on to- Porsche. look at the small but striking journey Porsche's expressions go through here:

I'm praying to the BL gods that we get some BTS commentary on this moment in particular because there's so much that could be happening with Porsche here.

maybe in his tipsiness he was just happy to have Kinn there before the reality of Kinn's rage hit him. maybe it was some of that gleeful sass in response to Kinn's jealousy that we saw earlier in the ep.

or it could have a darker meaning: is that little smile a knowing one? a confirmation of the doubts about Kinn's sincerity/intentions that have been brewing in Porsche since he found out about Tawan?

regardless, all are loaded/potentially devastating possibilities.

Kinn and Porsche then exchange slaps and verbal barbs, but it's much more than the sum of its parts. they both have so many fears, insecurities and lack of trust in each other (and themselves, too) that they've been carrying around since this intoxicating, terrifying thing between them started.

the powder keg was already loaded & ready to explode- the altercation with Vegas was just the spark that lit it.

I'm glazing over the rest of the argument to the aftermath because that's where things really get narratively delicious. I've always been a sucker for a good chase- the idea that someone not just wants but needs you to the extent that they'd pursue you- and Kinn's desperate need for Porsche to stay with him is on full, aggressive display here.

he moves so quickly after Porsche that it comes off as an instinct, not an intentional choice- a magnet chasing its opposite polarity.

there's this moment against the mirror where they continue to struggle against each other, but it couldn't be more half-hearted. the mutual stare-off is intense as they size each other up. Kinn is a brick wall of determination, but we all know Porsche could easily get out of his grip & that room if he wanted to. which way is he gonna go? the tension in this moment was palpable (all hail MileApo for acting their damn faces off).

and then, Porsche caves- literally. he curls into himself in a defensive posture against the mirror, clearly pissed about giving into this insufferable man he loves- but he does it anyway, because it's Kinn. one of the hallmarks of their relationship is how mutually weak they are for each other, despite all the reasons they "shouldn't" be.

once Kinn realizes Porsche is staying with him- at least for the moment- this deep, yawning regret paints his expression, tinged with a sort of loneliness (not surprising after the life he's led), replacing the rage. there's a different sort of tension here now- this feeling of walking the edge of a knife, knowing one wrong word or move could end the fragile sort-of peace.

Kinn's terrified in this moment: not just at the possibility of losing Porsche for good, but the past repeating itself. of how the world seems stacked against his happiness- maybe even how he himself (and what he's had to become/endure) stands in the way of it.

Kinn didn't wax poetic here because, in my opinion, he can't: he's in the midst of a total emotion onslaught, holding onto this man who's become so precious to him for dear life. but he has to say something, do something, so he goes for simplicity: I'm sorry.

we linger here for a minute, the camera purposefully moving in Kinn's direction then Porsche's, the mirror giving us a full 180 view. again, the ball is in Porsche's court. the choice is his.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Porsche is a mirror, reflecting back whatever he's given (or not given), which makes the use of mirrors here all the more chef's kiss. Porsche also needs words to go along with actions, so as small as that apology was- it's exactly what he needed to hear.

he didn't want this fight, he didn't want that kiss from Vegas- he wants to stay with Kinn, be with Kinn, in spite of everything they're up against. there are so many layers here, but it's really pretty simple: it's love. stupid, wonderful, intoxicating love.

I love how slowly Porsche turns to Kinn here- it says "I'm not fighting; I'm not fleeing." and Kinn turns with him, again moving with him like he can't help himself.

and then: Porsche fully faces Kinn and my heart stopped. this isn't an expression we've seen him wear in front of anyone: it's soft but feels like a raw nerve. naked, vulnerable- it says, "you did wrong. I'm hurting, but I'm here. now show me how you really feel. heal what you hurt." Kinn strokes his hair with a breathless sort of wonder, not quite believing his luck that he's still there.

and then, the moment that shoots this scene into the stratosphere for me: Porsche doesn't move. this constantly-joking, light-hearted gremlin of a man doesn't do a thing to ease the tension- and he's so right for that.

he lets the silence stretch on, and Kinn takes his cue: this is his moment to demonstrate his deep remorse and affection for Porsche. so- he starts worshipping him. smartly, he doesn't move in for a kiss first- this would put them on too equal footing- not until they both get caught up in the heat together.

when they do kiss, Porsche grabs Kinn's chin and gently pulls him away, and Kinn nods to him in reassurance. I like to think he's saying it's OK to surrender, that he's safe with him- and once again, that was all the reassurance Porsche needed.

damn Tumblr's 10 image limit to hell because Kinn's expressions of pure, utter joy when Porsche touches him back is just incredible. Porsche mirrors (heh) that joy right back, delighted in his ability to make this man weak in the best possible way. it’s a beautiful, sexy sliver of happiness in the middle of the unstable chaos that is their reality- and really, their relationship.

and afterwards, when Porsche grabs Kinn as tightly to him as he can, Kinn in near-tears pressed against his shoulder? Porsche's face tight with his own emotions and empathy for the man in his arms? there's this feeling of inevitability; that they couldn't pull themselves away from each other if they wanted to...come what may.

POETIC CINEMA, my friends. poetic, smutty cinema.

[atlasshrugd]

something i’ve noticed is that while kinn is the one who likes to initiate conversations and hash things out, porsche is the one who likes to give verbal affirmation once the relationship is established. for example. he would say things like “last night was amazing,” “he is jealous that we are in love,” “you look great,” “smile, that’s when you’re cutest,” “you are really adorable,” “feels so good,” “so kind,” etc. most of these lil comments kinn doesn’t comment back, he usually just agrees or smiles. this is interesting bc porsche seems to put more weight on words of affirmation and acts of service (see: porsche always fixing kinn’s hair, being his bodyguard etc.), while kinn puts more weight on physical touch and quality time (see: kinn kissing him when he says “you never trust me” in ep 10, mutual masturbation scene / staying handcuffed to porsche in the woods etc.) as ways of expressing love/giving reassurance. 

let me elaborate:

kinn often initiates conversations (see: asking porsche if he is okay multiple times, “are we good now?”) to clear the air — because his way of thinking is efficient and organized. porsche often avoids these confrontations and would prefer to forgive and forget (see: kinn apologizing for “that night” multiple times in the woods but porsche not really wanting to talk about it). this is because porsche is not used to talking about his feelings (i.e. not having parents to talk to, not wanting to burden porchay, having to put feelings aside to get things done etc.) or having them be important/listened to. 

so, porsche uses words of affirmation to establish feelings because he was so starved of that for most of his life. mirroring this, kinn is also not used to verbal affirmation from loved ones. so when porsche offers this — he often doesn’t know how to respond, but is pleasantly surprised. 

porsche also uses acts of service to express love, as no one has ever taken care of him. he takes care and protects the people he loves, often sacrificing his own feelings. mirroring this, nobody has sacrificed for kinn, either. he has always been the one making the sacrifices (inheriting the mafia job despite being the middle child, putting aside his love life and freedom to do a job he doesn’t want), and nobody has ever cared for him beyond what he can do for them (his father, his people, tawan). 

so when porsche performs acts of service, (such as taking him out on a date/carefully planning, fixing his hair, coming back to save him, offering to cut off his hand, etc.) — this is completely new to kinn. he is used to people doing things for him out of obligation and duty. but with porsche, he rarely does anything he doesn’t want to do. he does these things for kinn by his own choice.

(see: porsche trying to “seduce” kinn by pretending he’s sick so kinn can look after him. this is an example of what porsche sees as love. taking care of someone.)

in return, kinn performs acts of service for porsche. he lets go of porsche in the woods, takes the bullet for him, gives his lucky gun to him, lets him borrow his phone to call porchay, gives him his own phone, pushes porsche out of the way of a bullet and cleans his wound, etc.

in contrast, kinn uses physical touch to anchor and communicate his feelings because he was touch starved for most of his life. the only touch he got was from callboys, and it wasn’t exactly loving or gentle. because he is so used to the trivialities of words, he often resorts to touch to speak louder. porsche responds to this bc he is equally touch-starved and lacked physical affection all his life.

additionally, kinn also uses quality time as a way to express love. he doesn’t take off the handcuffs because he knows he can only get this time with porsche if they are stuck together away from everything else. “we know each other so much better this way.” kinn decides to make it up to porsche by going over to his house and forcing himself to awkwardly sit with him and his drunk friends for hours. “if i didn’t care about you, why am i sitting here?” (see: kinn not being annoyed with all of porsche’s trivial demands on their date, instead looking fond. bc he doesn’t care how he spends time with porsche. as long as he is with porsche, he is happy.)

back to my original point. kinn likes to initiate conversations and gets straight to the point, especially when checking in on porsche. (e.g. “what now? [about us]” “are you okay with it? [kissing]” “are you okay? [after first time]” “are you good now?” etc.). this could be because he realises words of affirmation are important for porsche’s way of identifying love to himself. but where porsche affirms with compliments and revealing comments, kinn affirms by reassurance (see: “promise you will return to me no matter what” / “i promise.” / “return the gun, and yourself.”) — these reinforcements are short but important, quick and efficient (just like kinn’s mind). 

anyway damn. i just find it interesting how their languages of love differ yet they begin to incorporate and integrate the others’ into them — and how they respond to the other in their own language. this is their mode of communication. perhaps others won’t understand, but they do. and that’s what matters.

[discluded]

@iffervescent filmania era is sparse in terms of timeline here, but I have important dates between first meeting + casting here!

Is there any post or website where I can find a rough MileApo timeline? Like I known they walked that run way like 10 years ago but was that when they were in college or after they graduated? Same with the meeting at the gym and when did the old Kp get cancelled and the new kp announced. There are so many stories and moments that when you come into the fandom a bit later it's hard to figure out the timeline of everything.

sorry, i don't think anyone's made a comprehensive one (yet?). i know there's an old post that went around that kind of explains their backstory but some stuff in it is wrong, which we learned later as mileapo have talked more about their pasts, separately and together. or you can probably ask @discluded c:

[ichigokeks]

Kinnporsche Parallels || Ep 6 - Ep 12 Pete and Porsche leaving and choosing to come back 

[heaven-is-in-your-arms-series]

This scene...

Khem is excited to call Chatra by his new title - "Khun Luang," as it signifies a promotion for him but Chatra never wanted that position at all, he only took it to protect Khem. 🥹

And Chatra is excited to call Khem by the title "Than Khun," having traded those damn documents to make sure Khem would be able to be free of the "phrai" status only to learn that Khem has rejected the title and decided to stay in Man Suang after all 🥺

The parallels here where they both try to save the other but get thwarted sure are something.

Khem burned the documents to protect Chatra and his family despite knowing that failure to find the documents is basically a death sentence for him but unbeknownst to him (as far as we know) Chatra pulls them from the fire to use them to trade with Phraya Bodisorn for Khem's safety, despite a potential risk to him and his family in doing so. 😭

I guess what I'm saying is that they should have at least been allowed to make out over it a little or something....

Please Shine/Chai the series, rectify this travesty 🙏

[waitmyturtles]

Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: KinnPorsche, and Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist Edition (Part 2)

[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. Today, I conclude a two-part series on my thoughts on KinnPorsche, my very first Thai BL, and the impact that I think KP has had on the Thai BL industry since 2022.]

Top of the morning (or whatever time zone you're in) to ya! Yesterday, I ruminated on KinnPorsche's foundation in regards to how the show wasn't as innovative as newbie members of the Thai BL fandom, like myself, may have thought in 2022 -- but was rather a great example of a show that derivatively used a lot of excellent past Thai BL influences in order to make a newly stylized show that I think, for the most part, worked well.

Harkening back to the outline for these two pieces that I laid out yesterday, this post will concentrate on:

3) How I think KP has impacted how other studios approach, market, and write Thai BLs now, and 4) A quick passing thought on BOC's own continued influence on the Thai BL genre and industry since 2022, particularly by way of Dead Friend Forever.

Before I get fully into point 3, I wanted to take a second to offer one more thought on an element about the KinnPorsche series itself that I didn't unwind on much yesterday, and one that'll connect with point 3 in a second. I mentioned yesterday that I personally (in my own opinion, I am accountable here) don't think that some of the VegasPete elements of the show helped the show's flow and continuity at all times. After my rewatch, I think the show could have stood for more episode editing to better its flow. I very much know how beloved VegasPete are in much of the KP fandom (thanks so much to dear friend @wen-kexing-apologist for the conversations about this during my rewatch!), so I don't want to pooh-pooh very hard, because at the same time, I think Bible as an actor was valuable to the show regarding Vegas's interactions with Porsche -- that side storyline offered intrigue and depth particularly into Porsche's mindset at the end of the series. At the same time, I think the VegasPete scenes contained enough questionable takes on trauma and attraction that I think now contribute to the show's legend and status as a uniquely heaty drama, but (in my opinion, people, I own this!), I think some of those takes could have been removed, smoothed, or tamped down for editing's sake, vis à vis those questionable takes in particular.

Taking VegasPete's trauma-and-kink-driven storyline, and KinnPorsche's romps and unravellings, into consideration, along with the show's excellent use of comedy as a plot driver: I think that KinnPorsche has clearly had an impact on how subsequent "heat" BL dramas have been created and marketed since KP's run. I'm thinking in particularly of some big ones (heh heh), including 2023's Only Friends, and 2023-24's Playboyy (which I did not finish, FYI).

Heat -- and the increasing use and management of it -- has long been an important element of the Thai BL industry. Like I said yesterday, MaxTul (my beloved) were pioneers of it in Together With Me and Manner of Death, and MAME consecrated episodic heat in 2019's TharnType, and even introduced enough of it notably in 2018's Love By Chance by way of those awesome spicy AePete scenes. And the WONDERFUL Lovely Writer offered meta commentary about the dependence that the Thai BL/Series Y industry has on heat in order to drive in fans, oftentimes to the detriment of more interesting and/or fulfilling and/or emotionally complicated plots.

KinnPorsche's lengthy marketing, from its Filmania days in 2020 and 2021, to its eventual 2022 premiere through Be On Cloud, certainly helped to drive interest and intrigue in the show, from the debut pairing of MileApo, to the clear use of heat that the show was promising before its airing. (Red Peafowl could never.)

Looking at the moment we are in right now -- early spring of 2024, with the ability to look back on the conclusions of both Only Friends and Playboyy -- I see the influence that KinnPorsche had on these shows being HUGELY marketed as cutting-edge-entrées to a high-heat and high-interest slice of Thai BL, particularly for Only Friends, which was GMMTV's own first step into really high-heat territory.

Both of the shows ended in meh territory (and both shows were written by the same writer in Den Panuwat, who may very well have a monogamy kink). Both shows ended up putting pure monogamy on a pedestal, and seemed to judge extra-monogamous sex as a "mistake" that was worth rectifying through "true," i.e., monogamous, love.

I posit, and I'm glad, that KinnPorsche did NOT go this route. Extracurricular sex wasn't even in the show's genes anyway, but -- the heat that KP marketed at the time of its premiere was solely associated with the centralized romances of the two main pairings. KinnPorsche didn't have to get extra-monogamously messy in its bones (huh huh) in order to be hot -- and it makes me curious to wonder why shows like Only Friends and Playboyy felt the need to promote relational messiness as a way to hype up their heat, all of which kinda putzed out in the end run of both of those shows.

Of course, we've still had heat in many other shows since KP's premiere, including in directions that roundly surprised the larger fandom, such as Pit Babe's take on omegaverse, and maybe even the vets Earth and Mix getting hot and heavy in Moonlight Chicken, a direction that Aof Noppharnach has been known to not take for the sake of keeping the ratings on his shows kid-friendly. But I do find it interesting that the heavy promotion of Only Friends and Playboyy led the fandom to think that these shows were going to have progressive takes on sex and sexuality, when they ultimately did not (I'd even argue that both of these shows ended up being judgemental of sexual experimentation). And while I don't think KinnPorsche's takes on heat were necessarily progressive, I do think the marketing of their actors getting into that, particularly as compared to Apo's previous career path in leaving acting for a while, was notable -- and as well, the care that the show took to depict heat scenes with excellent cinematography makes many of those scenes so memorable today.

I want to make one final note about KinnPorsche's and Be On Cloud's general influence on the Thai BL industry, in that I'm impressed by their investment in generally good-to-great writing and directing. As I overviewed yesterday, KinnPorsche heavily featured veterans from across the BL landscape, and Be On Cloud's latest serial offering, Dead Friend Forever, continued that trajectory, having an OG BL director in Ma-Deaw Chookiat partly take the helm of that show. Very importantly, Ma-Deaw Chookiat has been the screenwriter and director of a number of seminal Thai queer films and shows, including 2019's Dew, and more impactfully, 2007's The Love of Siam, which is considered a harbinger of the television Thai BL industry, and a film that has notably influenced important Thai BL creators, especially New Siwaj, who doesn't hesitate to include references to LoS in many of his shows, including Until We Meet Again, My Only 12%, and more. Chookiat has also screenwritten and/or directed three shows written by the notable Thai Y novelist, Sammon, in DFF, Manner of Death, and Triage. Sammon has been on a tear recently, as she will be the screenwriter for BOC's upcoming drama, 4 Minutes, as well as Spare Me Your Mercy, the hugely anticipated BL drama starring Tor Thanapob and singer Jaylerr.

Going back to my thoughts earlier about big marketing of big BLs: we've seen some duds recently from shows that were marketed at a big tip, from OF, to Playboyy, to Idol Factory's The Sign. From what I've gathered from the Tumblr tag regarding The Sign -- it seems that show suffered mostly from a lack of editorial context and plot sensibility and tightness, and that there could have been a good show, if the show had spent less money on CGI, and more money on the script.

Be On Cloud seems to mostly be putting its money where its pen is. I say "mostly" as a caveat. Was the ending of DFF fantastic? No, and I totally admit as much: while the show mostly stuck to its slasher genre conventions (thank you so much to @lurkingshan, my genre guru, for explaining this to me), the show seemed to poop out in the end by giving us a PheeJin BL ship, instead of Phee's and Jin's gruesome deaths. Womp womp. The pull of BL, and the need for clean-ish endings for the fujoshi crowd, may still be too economically enticing for studios, including Be On Cloud itself.

But I'm optimistic for BOC's upcoming shows, with the talent and money they're putting into scripts and directing. And we know that BOC's first film, the non-queer Man Suang, was an important artistic point for the studio as it continues its investment in MileApo and experimental content to market within and outside of Thailand. It was important enough that Dead Friend Forever, emanating from the Thai BL world, took on an entirely different genre instead, and literally presented that back to BL fans on a silver platter. I hope 4 Minutes can tread similar experimental territory. And I'm glad to see Be On Cloud being able to invest in high-quality writing and directing after the publicly major obstacles the studio experienced last year during the Build Jakapan scandal.

From the time I discovered Thai BLs in 2022, to now: I would not have expected KinnPorsche and Be On Cloud to start such a journey in my personal drama fan life. As well, considering how many damn shows I've now watched from Thailand, I also didn't expect this rewatch of KinnPorsche to be so much fun. AND, I truly didn't realize I had this much to say about it -- but there was a lot of say, especially by way of how referential the original KinnPorsche series was, which touched my little nerdy BL heart.

With that, I say ta-ta to my entrée to this fun world of Thai BLs, and move on to the next one!

[OKAY! We are kind of back of the grind, although my ability to watch dramas has really been hampered by real life obligations and schedules. BUT: I'm trucking along through War of Y, and I have some fun rewatches coming up in The Eclipse (my first-ever GMMTV BL), as well as two new-to-me dramas in GAP (the first GL on the list, WOO!) and My School President, which I can't wait for.

I've made a few tiddly adjustments to the list below, including adding Dead Friend Forever as an important addition, and I'm deep in my giggles with 23.5, which I am LOVING. ONWARDS! For more details about the ongoing list, please checkity-check here!

1) The Love of Siam (2007) (movie) (review here) 2) My Bromance (2014) (movie) (review here) 3) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here) 4) Gay OK Bangkok Season 1 (2016) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 5) Make It Right (2016) (review here) 6) SOTUS (2016-2017) (review here) 7) Gay OK Bangkok Season 2 (2017) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 8) Make It Right 2 (2017) (review here) 9) Together With Me (2017) (review here) 10) SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS (2017-2018) (review here) 11) Love By Chance (2018) (review here) 12) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) (no review) 13) He’s Coming To Me (2019) (review here) 14) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) and Our Skyy x Kiss Me Again (2018) (review here) 15) TharnType (2019-2020) (review here) 16) Senior Secret Love: Puppy Honey (OffGun BL cuts) (2016 and 2017) (no review) 17) Theory of Love (2019) (review here) 18) 3 Will Be Free (2019) (a non-BL and an important harbinger of things to come in 2019 and beyond re: Jojo Tichakorn pushing queer content in non-BLs) (review here) 19) Dew the Movie (2019) (review here) 20) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) (review here) (and notes on my UWMA rewatch here) 21) 2gether (2020) and Still 2gether (2020) (review here) 22) I Told Sunset About You (2020) (review here) 23) YYY (2020, out of chronological order) (review here) 24) Manner of Death (2020-2021) (review here) 25) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here) 26) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake Of Rewatching Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (re-review here) 27) Lovely Writer (2021) (review here) 28) Last Twilight in Phuket (2021) (the mini-special before IPYTM) (review here) 29) I Promised You the Moon (2021) (review here) 30) Not Me (2021-2022) (review here) 31) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here) 32) 55:15 Never Too Late (2021-2022) (not a BL, but a GMMTV drama that features a macro BL storyline about shipper culture and the BL industry) (review here) 33) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) and Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (2023) OGMMTVC Rewatch (Links to the BBS OGMMTVC Meta Series are here: preamble here, part 1, part 2, part 3a, part 3b, and part 4) 34) Secret Crush On You (2022) (review here) 35) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here)  36) KinnPorsche (2022) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For the Sake of Re-Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist (part 1 here)

...interrupting the OGMMTVC list here to watch War of Y (2022) (watching) in chronology to decide if it gets listed...

37) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here) 38) The Eclipse OGMMTVC Rewatch to Reexamine “Genre BLs” and Internalized/Externalized Homophobia in GMMTV Shows  39) GAP (2022-2023) (Thailand’s first GL) 40) My School President (2022-2023) and Our Skyy 2 x My School President (2023) 41) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here) 42) Bed Friend (2023) (tag here) 43 La Pluie (2023) (review coming) 44) Be My Favorite (2023) (tag here) (I’m including this for BMF’s sophisticated commentary on Krist’s career past as a BL icon) 45) Wedding Plan (2023) (Recommended as an important trajectory in the course of MAME’s work and influence from TharnType) 46) Only Friends (2023) (tag here) (not technically a BL, but it certainly became one in the end) 47) Last Twilight (2023-24) (tag here) (on the list as Thailand’s first major BL to center disability, successfully or otherwise) 48) Cherry Magic Thailand (2023-24) (tag here) (on the list as the first major Japanese-to-Thai drama adaptation, featuring the comeback of TayNew) 49) Ossan’s Love Returns (2024) (adding for the EarthMix cameo and the eventual Thai remake) 50) Dead Friend Forever (2024) (thoughts here) 51) 23.5 (2024)]