#menelaus and odysseus and diomedes

[katerinaaqu]

I cant go to bed and i fear ill forget ths but wht is the difference in relationship between Odysseus x menelaus and odysseus x diomedes. i hve only read summaries of the illiad but i will read eventually. if ths seem a little random its cause i keep seeing fanart ships of the two ships (ikkkk guilty pleasure crucify me or whatever) and cant differentiate the difference. im sorry if ths does not make sense for my sleep deprived brain basically wht i am asking is what their difference in relationship (NOT IN FANON) like is menelaus more harsher to ody etccc

anyway sozz for the long ask i hve no idea how these work so plz tell me i did ths correctly

Hahahahaha I absolutely get this feeling! And boy that is a very very good question and a favorite of mine given how much I love Odysseus's relationships with his peers or men! And it is not random at all! I think it is a massively important question because the Iliad is not a pure war novel that talks about the anger of a demigod. It is also a story of war companionship, friendship and cooperation etc so the relationships between the heroes is great. And probably have noticed from this fanfiction of mine that I love exploring the two of them in regards to Odysseus and the other way round.

I am incredibly sorry if this gets long again for I have no self-control hahahaha!

So let's start with what they have in common. Both men, Diomedes and Menelaus, hold great respect for Odysseus at least as far as Homer is concerned (because dynamics are vastly different in post-homeric sources). Both kings seem to be speaking with the warmest words for Odysseus in the Odyssey as I have also slightly touched to my analysis about Achilles and Patroclus relationship. Basically Menelaus speaks on how Odysseus's fate makes him distressed so much that he cannot eat or sleep anymore. He also yells in exaspiration when Telemachus mentions how the suitors are eating away Odysseus's wealth and pry on his wife. During the Iliad Menelaus considered Odysseus nothing less than irreplacable and valuable. You can see my analysis here but here's the original passage and my own translation for it:

But let's go and help him, that's the best course! For I am afraid if anything bad happened to him as he is isolated by the Trojans, he will be incredibly missed by the Danaans!

So basically he says "if we lose him we're done for!". In Menelaus's mind Odysseus is an irreplacable valuable friend. He even leads him out of battle the best he can till his chariot comes to take him. Diomedes thinks similarly of him in the Iliad. In fact in 10th rhapsody of the Iliad when he chooses him as the partner for the counterspy mission to the Trojan side he says (again my translation);

If you ask from me to pick a partner to go with, how can I choose anyone else but godly Odysseus who has both fast wits and heroic heart and works hard for everyone, Pallas Athena loves him. If I follow him even through wild fire, we shall both return, this I know very well!

So yeah once again we have a complete flattery here. Diomedes thinks there is no better man than Odsseus to go with him on a mission because he believes in his skills and he knows both of them shall return from the battle which almost seems like he wants to redeem himself since two rhapsodies prior he lashes out to Odysseus calling him a coward for running lol! But I shall elaborate further below.

So both heroes have the most profound respect for Odysseus in battle and as a person. Now apart from that the differences between each person's appreciation or differences with each other seem to be very few and they seem to be ematating from the ages of the characters.

Menelaus is closer to Odysseus in age than Diomedes who is arguably the youngest among the kings so his relationship with him seems to be more direct in the level of experience in life and they speak in a more diplomatic or daresay "equal" manner in the essence of their age. Diomedes and Odysseus seem almost to have like a father and son relationship or mentor and protege even if of course both kings are tecnically equal. I am talking on age only. Diomedes seems to be sticking around Odysseus almost like a son figure and Odysseus seems to be trusting Diomedes with his plans and missions like no other because he knows his capabilities in battle and they both share the love of the same patron goddess, Athena

In one way I feel it is the other way round; that Menelaus is generally meeker with Odysseus while as I talked here Diomedes accuses Odysseus two rhapsodies before his praise in rhapsody 10 because Odysseus didn't run to assist him save Nestor (Diomedes seemed to be disobaying the gods at that moment and he was stopped by a lightning of Zeus) but that is probably because Diomedes's personality is generally harsher and more straightforward which makes sense given that not only is he younger but also because he was a soldier since he was a child (he was 14 at the war of Epigonoi)

But for sure it all depends on how you personally interpret the characters as well! I usually do not interpret them as lovers in fact we do not have much of evidence for that however if you also interpret their relationship as such it is up to your perception really.

I hope this helps! Sorry for the long message and please go to sleep my friend! Do not reprive yourself from sleep!

[simo0n]

"The horse and the infant"

[wolfythewitch]

dad jokes

[katkit-drops-alt]

aaaaaaaaaaaa the iliad/odyssey as cat memes aaaaaaaaaaaaa

[justvea18]

Back at the camp:

[bugbear55]

seriously i cant find ANY sources that agree ,, can anyone tell me how the fuck diomedes died

[sol-thorne]

So I uhhh... I finished the Iliad. I had a lot of fun but there were so MANY weird ass funny moments that I HAD to draw. Enjoy my personal retelling of these bits. (The designs for the characters are very undocumented and definitely not final though).

PART ONE:

Part two over there!

[sophiejanefostersilver]

Hear me out

The iliad, but they all 5 and fight over a toy Menelaus showed them

Nestor is the old man cause hes 6 and like, super smart

The gods are their parents/older siblings who took them to the park

[morpheus-somnium]

reading the iliad is like

who is echepolus? who is agenor? who is peirous?

hi odysseus!! hi achilles!!

who is phegeus? who is eurypylus? who is menesthes?

diomedes!! menelaus <33

who is ttepolemus? who is alcandrus? who is opheltius? who is-

[kupidachillea]

I was bored

Images from Pinterest

[mircsy]

Still Mermay, and Odysseus got the perfect scheme in his head against the Trojans

[incorrecthomer]

Odysseus: Hello friends! Diomedes: Agamemnon: Menelaus: Nestor: Antilochus: Odysseus: You might be wondering why I'm taped to the ceiling

[wolfythewitch]

scar map :D

[shwoooops]

Someone should write something where it's the Greek heroes from the Iliad watching odysseus during the odyssey from the afterlife. like achilles and company just being like yea fuck that guy up man. u got that. or he's crying over missing penelope and telemachus and they just feel bad for him or smth.

could also be them all listening/watching the epic songs/animatics 🦭

(even tho a lot of them don't die it's a fun idea in theory)

[justvea18]

I really like this shot from the thing I'm doing

[smokey07]

Random doodles

Left to right/ top to bottom:

Agamemnon, Menelaus (by the event of Iliad), Odysseus, Achilles, Paris, Andromache, Cassandra, Penelope, Hector, Diomedes and insane, probably having rabies Achilles again