#maybe it's powers of the dawnfather

[andi-o-geyser]

Deanna Leimert has everything. powers of the gods. an angsty backstory. majority of the only braincells in any group she's in. an ex husband. a werewolf fuckbuddy. a gay best friend. the best hangover cure you've ever had. religious trauma. homecooking skills. the ability to butcher a goat. a medical degree. a dump truck ass. and an etsy shop

[danwhobrowses]

Spoilers for Critical Role Campaign 3 Episode 104 Below

So with Orym's Seedling getting blessed by the Wildmother to now be Vestige-tier as a 'Relic of the Red Solstice' I thought I'd indulge myself and throw in which of the gods I think/want to bless the rest of the Hells with in order to give them Relics and why.

Imogen - The Stormlord Why - Easiest of the bunch after Orym, she is the storm after all and she likes her lightning magic, flying and projectiles. The Knowing Mistress may be a secondary option but I think the Stormlord has this one on lock, likely enhancing her damage output or overall spellcasting.

Laudna - The Matron of Ravens Why - Given Laudna's connection and affinity for the dark and spooky it seems the best fit. You could go and juxtapose with the Dawnfather given the Sun Tree or have the Arch Heart help her believe in her own magic but I think the Matron would be the best fit. Laudna's enhancement may fall more into damage avoidance than increased damage through the Matron, or something to hinder enemy saves.

Chetney - The All Hammer Why - The god of crafting hasn't gotten any real chances to shine in the past 3 campaigns, but he is the best fit for the toymaker. The Moonweaver may be an option given lycanthropy, and I wouldn't put it past Travis wanting to get a vestige from a Betrayer God but adding more options for Travis to be creative is always a solid recipe. For that maybe a Relic that changes shape or can make some summonings would work for Chet.

Fearne - The Moonweaver Why - While the Arch Heart - forefather of fey, Dawnfather - given the fire powers, or a double dip from the Wildmother are options, I think the Moonweaver best suits Fearne given how they're both known for their mischief and flirtiness. Also the Unseelie Court hate her so it'd be a nice dig at Zathuda. She also has a moon sickle, which may be the thing that gets enhanced if not her staff. Since the Titan shard already increases her firepower the Moonweaver could perhaps help with damage avoidance in an illusionary way, or improve her spellcasting and concentration saves.

Braius - The Lord of Lies Why - Braius is a difficult one actually. The As hole hasn't actually made contact with him so why give a vestige-like power? Problem is that there's not many other options given how he doesn't like the Primes. The Ruiner or Dread Emperor might be an option just for damage output. We've not seen too much of Braius but from what we've seen of him in combat he holds himself pretty well, so you'd probably expect something to enhance that maybe in a more hellish way. We'd also have to figure out how he'll contact a Betrayer in Vassalheim...

Dorian - The Changebringer Why - Dorian is the most difficult imo because although he's naturally good and considerate there isn't really a god he's been seen to lean on. I doubt he'd accept favour from the Matron or Wildmother after the Opal incident, but the god all about finding your own path may suit Dorian's mental state right now. The Lawbearer (to parallel with Orym getting the Wildmother's blessing), Arch Heart and Knowing Mistress are options too, but the latter already favoured a bard once before so you probably don't want to do repetition there. All manner of things can be enhanced for Dorian equipment-wise, it'll likely be an instrument though, which means their relic will likely enhance support and damage suppression.

Ashton - The Everlight Why - While I know the Coin of the Changebringer is right there, the Changebringer was FCG's god, not Ashton's - they have to walk their own path, providing that they are willing to accept a god's blessing. While the Ruiner may offer something to lure Ashton into given the promise of violence, or the Arch Heart proposing an enhancement of unique magic, I am sticking with my earlier mentioning that the Everlight is perhaps the god who can benefit Ashton the most as a person. It seems unorthodox but Ashton at their core wants to protect the people they care about; healing, temperance and redemption are all key to that, and like Fearne since the Titan powers increases their damage output already, perhaps Ashton's relic would be something to help them take more damage so others don't have to.

[shorthaltsjester]

honestly as someone who has been in various fandoms for a long time now and who also watched campaigns 1 and 2 without really getting into cr fandom it isn’t Shocking but it is annoying how often people will look at the stories that cr tells and make absolute claims about the goodness of characters (goodness here meaning Moral goodness, not I Like This character and think it’s well made goodness, which is a separate post entirely). particularly regarding the gods and pc parents. and honestly like, typically in fandom i get annoyed by people bending over backwards to woobify characters who are active in their choice to be unkind and generally horrible but in the cr fandom it’s tended to be the opposite where like. a character is just. a human being (in the sense of being Average not in the sense of Fantasy Races) and huge swaths of the fandom act like that’s the most unforgivable thing someone can be. and maybe it is, but one of the most powerful things about fiction is that it tends to encourage people to expand their empathy and exercise their ability to forgive. because fictional characters, no matter how much people like to project onto them, tend not to cause anyone harm, so it’s easier to learn how to forgive and accept things you don’t understand without also villainizing them.

this is mostly prompted by the recent 4sd and the fact that matt’s response to what’s up with the dawnfather was a very insistent “He’s not bad!” and also seeing the online reaction to the mention that the matron would punish vax for saving keyleth that has taken the as usual completely bonkers tune that the raven queen (Who When Met With A Brother Asking A God To Kill Him In Favour Of His Sister, Gave Him A Job, and Later Extended His Natural Life To Help Protect The World And Have More Time With His Family And Allowed Him To Visit His Sister On Her Wedding Day) is a horrible evil abusive bitch of a god. like. can we grow up? can we understand the world and fiction that represents the multitudes of experiences found in it in shades of grey? is that too much to ask (i know it is).

but also specifically the like Extremely Adamant way that both matt and laura were like no no no no relvin isn’t Horirble he’s average. he’s not good he’s just. he’s A father, not a good or bad one. and on the surface it’s hilarious that they’re both so like. enthused to point out that he’s Average because typically when people respond to a claim of a characters badness with the level of immediacy they both did it’s a rebuttal of “no, this character is good actually.” but it was just to affirm that relvin did harm imogen, but not because there’s some aspect of his character that is inherently cruel or especially Bad. and like. yeah actually. yeah you should react like that to a claim that this average person who Has hurt someone, the way that nearly every single person has hurt someone in a way they cannot repair, with immediacy to say this person is a Person and thus imperfect and capable of great harm, but that isn’t some all encompassing judgment on their morality or capability to also do good or be fine.

anyway this is kinda just a rant post but also is just me saying i’m very grateful that when surrounded by a fandom that tends to paint characters as Good or Bad and even while using a game that can encourage that with its alignment system, cr has always told stories that see goodness as a persistent choice that might sometimes falter and that can be chosen even after a lifetime of Badness. i can’t remember exactly what the quote was so forgive me if it’s incorrect but when jester is talking to caleb after he claims he’s not a very good person and she says “good people do bad things sometimes. even bad people do good things.” that’s it! that’s one of the most consistent themes across campaigns. and yet.

[nellie-elizabeth]

The Legend of Vox Machina: Thordak's Throne (3x09)

Oh shit, I can't believe they did that. And by that I mean... well, I'll talk about it in a bit.

Cons:

I have one small and one kind of medium-large complaint to lodge here before we go into how much I really did adore this episode.

Okay, obviously Travis broke my heart with his line delivery on "can you fix him? Please, you gotta fix him." But I do kind of miss his original improvised version that had more heat to it. The bellowed "FIX HIM" lives in my head rent free and we didn't get that here. Small nitpick, this version also tore out my heart, but thought I'd mention that. The thing about Grog is that he's our big lovable dummy, but the other thing about Grog is that he can be scary sometimes, even to the people he loves most.

Then there's the bigger thing. Pike's big moment was like... well, I'm not like, super angry, really, it's more of a "let's see where they're going with this thing", I guess. I have thoughts. Honestly, the stuff with Pike and the Everlight in this show has always been kind of muddy to me, and a plot progression where Pike finds strength in herself instead of in her goddess is totally fine with me in theory. But I thought in the past seasons the setup was more like... her faith as an anchor to her own strength. Or believing that she is deserving of the Everlight's favor and that thus the power she wields is her own, but the goddess is her supporter as much as Pike is a follower of her goddess? Like, does that make any sense? Pike having a complicated but ultimately loving relationship with her deity is what I was looking for here. That image of her actually throwing aside the Everlight's symbol was kind of... Not It, for me. I wish it had been more like "It's not just the Everlight's magic, and it's not just the Dawnfather's armor. It's me, who I am, being worthy to wield the powers they offer." That's the nuance I would have wanted here.

Maybe they're setting shit up, I don't know. There's clearly something going on with Pike here that I don't fully understand, since it's new material added to the show! But her big triumphant moment of using the armor to deal a devastating blow to Thordak left me a little uncertain, if I'm being honest. Pike does love her goddess, it's part of her strength. I don't want the story to take that away from her. Maybe whatever Zerxus was on about, that whole thing about her being "special," will shed further light on this, and what seemed like a triumphant moment in this episode will ultimately turn back on itself? That's kind of what I'm hoping for, in a way. I want Pike's final resolution as a character to be her reconciled and comfortable with the Everlight's place in her life, even if it's a relationship that has evolved, somewhat.

Pros:

But okay. Enough of that. This episode kicked ass.

Let's get back to the "oh shit, I can't believe they did that." I can't believe they killed Kash!!! Like, okay, there are so many things to talk about in this episode but I have to start with how fucking shocked I was by this. Totally out of left field, did not see it coming, completely crushed my soul. Because that's not just Kash, character who has been in like... two episodes of this show and cracks wise and flirts with Keyleth and how he's dead. That's who the character is to animated series watchers, and I'm sure his death is very sad from that perspective, but... but that's... fan favorite guest PC, played by Will Friedle, that's a character who gets to live happily ever after in the world of Exandria as far as the campaign story is concerned, and they killed him dead! And like... he's dead dead, we all know it, don't we? Yikes, this was so depressing! They did that very effective thing of having him and Zahra being all cutesy and kissing and then engaging in banter and doing cool battle combos together and then... SQUISH.

It was an enormously effective change, I can't even be mad at it. This show is not beholden to the streaming canon, they've told us that a thousand times. And let's be honest, we know what's coming up for certain other beloved characters. It makes a lot of sense to me that some named characters needed to be casualties of these big bad dragons before the end. This was... a fucking heartbreaking choice but I found it enormously impactful in exactly the right way. Zahra's despair was so moving, and I love how she got to give Pike that final angry pep talk to push her into her final moment of figuring out how to use her vestige. I also loved the imagery, of Kash standing up and looking down on his own mangled corpse, looking over at the group, and... seeing Vax, seeing him? Then the Matron imagery behind him as he turns and walks into shadow. Just... masterfully done, a super emotionally devastating death for a character who didn't need a lot of screen time to make a huge impact on my heart. Also, just, it was so MEAN! Ouch!

So much else to say. I don't know how to go in a linear order just talking about all the moments that I loved, so get ready for me to jump around just listing things that totally destroyed me and/or I totally cheered at.

All of the cool NPCs and side characters getting shown in small moments, kicking ass! Allura and Gilmore with their spells, and Kima and Groon as always being cool as shit, and Vex and Vax's dad being just kind of... shell-shocked by the mass destruction but then bickering with Cassandra about how to evacuate the troops. It just makes the world feel so full and like we've been to all of these places and met all of these cool different people.

Grog really got a lot of shining moments in this episode! I loved how when their original plan went to shit, Grog is the one who steps up and comes up with an alt. That was such a clever way to adapt one of my favorite aspects of the campaign, which is that Travis often had interesting strategic ideas at the table, but Grog wasn't allowed to be smart enough to think of them. So Grog would occasionally have these tactical insights, but Travis had to hold back a lot of the time. This was a fun way for Travis to possess Grog's body and come up with a good idea and get the ball rolling!

Seeing Grog and Scanlan teaming up was such a joy, you get this sense that theirs is a friendship full of wacky shenanigans and so much heart and love, that Grog has some of his best fun times with Scanlan Shorthalt and really enjoys his company. I loved Scanlan getting him into the rage mindset to defeat the eggs, and I loved Scanlan acting as bait with Thordak. And then... man, this show knows how to turn your emotional reality on its head. I was waiting for how the Scanlan death stuff would translate here, and despite wishing for the more angry version of "FIX HIM," I still was emotionally crushed by Grog's realization that Scanlan wasn't moving! Noooooo. He's gotta wake up, if only because Grog couldn't live with it otherwise!

We get a Keyleth moment where she turns into her fire elemental self, but it doesn't seem to work, which I thought was a cool moment - it makes sense within the mechanical logic of D&D that a big powerful fire thing wouldn't work that well against a big powerful fire thing, but it was also such a cool subversion of expectations to hear that amazing musical theme and see Vax and Keyleth do such a bad-ass combo and then have it not play out the way you would expect it to!

The final beats of everyone circling up around Thordak, then Pike getting that moment to really take him out and get rid of the soul anchor, was visually very cool even if (see above) I'm a little worried about the implications for Pike's character journey.

And then. Man. I knew I'd cry about Vex and Vax's mother, and this is one of those things I think is really enhanced by having watched the stream, and knowing how much this story became healing for Liam in particular. The visual of Thordak getting away, and Vax holding Vex's hand before launching himself into the air, the way he himself became the final weapon, punching through Thordak's body... so fucking beautiful and intense and cathartic. And then we get the twins holding each other in relief. They can't do anything to bring their mother back, or Percy, but at least they've stopped this dragon from doing any further harm.

Tracking Keyleth's mistrust of Raishan through the season has been so interesting, because here she turns up, seems like she might be about to turn on our heroes, and then she plays her part and attacks Thordak in a vulnerable moment instead, forcing him to fly off to lick his wounds, and setting Vax up for that final kill shot. Then you have Keyleth being the bigger person and going to tell Raishan she knows she was wrong, and thanking her for the allyship. But of course... Keyleth was fucking right, y'all, she was right all along, don't mess with my GIRL lol. Raishan is doing something with runes, and then before Vox Machina can stop her, she's vanished with Thordak's corpse in tow. Dun dun dunnnn.

I'm really curious about how we're fitting in the events I think we still have to hit in the next three episodes. Obviously things are so topsy turvey and out of order here. Percy didn't get to do the Thordak fight in this version! Keyleth doesn't have her vestige! Scanlan is unconscious and out for the count and I have to assume that's dealt with... before the Raishan combat? Or maybe Scanlan sits that one out? I don't fucking know, man, everything is so out of order that I'm on the edge of my seat as much as the just-animated-show viewers!

I'm not going to dock too many points for my big Pike question in this episode. I still want to see where they're going with this in the final three episodes. Other than that aspect, I really really loved this episode. RIP Kash, you really caught a stray by showing up in this episode and getting squished so bad. Gonna miss that guy.

9/10

[butterflydm]

cr3 102

I really enjoyed Bells Hells' questioning of Ludinus. I think they hit pretty much every point that I would have wanted them to make (even with them being less sympathetic towards the exandria gods than I am) and the way that Ludinus dodged every single question that they tried to put to him was... definitely less than convincing. And the way he left (encouraging the unleashing of Delilah) seems likely to only sour them even more towards him.

Because the huge point that needs to be made is that even if Ludinus was 100% correct about the gods -- even if that were true... how is what he's proposing any better? And he doesn't have any answer apart from "trust me bro".

Why is his super-powerful entity from beyond the stars better than the prime gods? It's just that it's his super-powerful entity that he prays to and communes with and devotes his life to empowering, and so that makes it different (and definitely not at all his god lol).

Launda being the one to point out how the prime/betrayer gods are a messed up little family just like Bells Hells is a messed up little family feels very poignant given the circumstances. And it tied really well into Launda very much fighting Delilah and giving her family permission to take her down to take down Delilah, which really made me feel like Laundra was paying real close attention to the interactions between the gods and she is determined not to be a 'betrayer god' to her own family.

Very emotionally intense fight overall but with some great moments of humor too (Essek the goat!). Launda fighting her way out of Delilah was fantastic every time. And Imogen (and the others!) trying to reach her.

I know that Orym has had more interactions with the Wildmother than any other god, but I am really feeling the Dawnfather energy from him tonight -- fighting but always hoping for another way out. At one hit point, staying in the fight and doing everything in his power to do his part for his family -- feels very much like Ayden/Dawnfather taking all that damage for the Emissary in the fight last episode. (and that's just the way that Orym is but, you know, that only reinforces the vibe)

(but, yeah, "She's hurt us worse than anyone." "That's why we have to help her." just... big Asmodeus-Everlight-Dawnfather vibes)

Dorian darting over to Orym after seeing him fall twice and trying to get him out of danger and just worrying over him the whole time. Lots of Dorym & Crownkeeper emotions going on tonight. And some tension, too! Because Dorian is more anti-god than anyone else at the table (due to what happened with Opal, I assume).

Was that Ashton leaving a piece of FCG in Aeor? Oh, man, my heart. There is also even more self-hate going on there than I realized, given the logic train of "if the gods are like us, they probably do deserve to die".

Braius is hilarious and I do not trust him even the slightest bit. And sorta bonding with Fearne over how all the gods are family (even the betrayers - so yeah that's an interesting vibe to be bringing in).

And we have a way to maybe separate Delilah from Launda, which is very exciting!

Yeah, this was a fantastic episode. We got everyone dunking on Ludinus, we got a tense fight, and we got to deal with the aftermath of the pvp in some safety and comfort afterwards. It had it all!

[utilitycaster]

Perhaps it’s because I’m religious (Jewish to be specific) but I really vibed with the perspective of The Lawbearer and the Covenant that they have with mortals.

Specifically, bc I find the pushback on the deity superiority and the “there are things you cannot undersand” complex as so interesting. Bcfrom my perspective yes the gods are more powerful and eternal than mortals. Yes they know more and understand more - far beyond comprehension.

Isn’t that why you enter into the covenant in the first place? It’s not an insult it’s a reality. That entity - that God IS more powerful than you as a mortal and is capable of more than you.

And this is maybe where the Judaism comes in - but like - there’s no guarantee that a covenant will be easy or pain free. Or that others will not hate you for your covenant. Or that there won’t be times where you want to break it because God(s) have done something you don’t agree with, asks too much of you, or you’re being persecuted.

And I guess the question I’ve been circling around - esp for the Society of Primes - is what is the point in serving or saving Gods you want to weaken?

Hi anon!

I am also Jewish and practicing, and have...experimented feels like the wrong word, but certainly changed, grappled with, and otherwise tried to figure out what that practice looks like and what I specifically believe in, which would be a long and rather personal discussion but suffice it to say both the background and the fact that I have questioned what I specifically do (and the fact that it is a background that is like hey questioning is great and you should do that) informs a my interpretations of deities in other works.

It's funny because I completely agree that the idea that you should both strive to understand the divine and that also it is, by its nature, beyond human comprehension. I also, coming from the Jewish tradition, think that the idea of negotiating with an entity far beyond your power or comprehension is on the table. On some level I think the discussion on last night's 4SD of how Nick approached the Dawnfather (rather more like the triple goddess than, in my opinion, the Trinity, if we're referencing religious mythology; I think it's interesting how people skewed to the latter) evokes, for example, Sodom and Gomorrah; you can put forth an argument! Indeed, Abraham does! People talk back to God a lot in the Torah. I don't think gods are beyond questioning for their actions, and there are fictional works where I think the gods shouldn't live. But getting back to your point, I think in those works it does come down to a covenant that seems broken that makes me go "yeah, gotta go."

I promise I am not making this up but I've been writing this during a summer thunderstorm - and I have an easterly-facing window through which I see a lot of rainbows, and there was one this time, which naturally made me think of the blessing on rainbows, which is one that focuses on God as, essentially, one who remembers covenants and keeps promises, and is reliable; it is very much like the vision of Erathis. It is, on some level, an exchange - not an equal one, but still an agreement, and one both are expected to keep.

The thing with Cassida is, and this is where I need to at least attempt to set aside my own religious biases, that's not the deity she was praying to. I would be interested to know more of the Society of Primes but I don't think they necessarily wanted to weaken the Prime Deities - I think they did believe fully in the power of the Primes and felt they were saving people by killing the Betrayers, and frankly that's not unreasonable to believe, given what we know. But at least for Cassida I do think it's really relevant that she was a follower of a goddess of mercy and healing, someone who from whom one would expect lenience and forgiveness, more so than reliability. It's also relevant that this is a polytheistic society and Judaism is monotheistic, so, for example, the idea of God as embodying mercy and destructive forces and agriculture and nature and beauty is not something that Exandrians would necessarily ascribe to. I think the revelation that the gods are both much more complex than expected but not infinite and specifically fallible (vs. the irl monotheistic view that does generally treat God as eternal and infinite) is something one has to keep in mind in understanding how Exandrians engage with the divine, and especially in Cassida's disillusionment.

[wenamedthedogkylo]

So much of Bor'Dor's waffling back and forth about how far to go with the Hells, where to go with them, what their goals were... so much of it makes sense now.

Two eps ago, he'd gone and talked to Orym in the tree and said he was set on sticking with them and helping them out. Last ep, he said he wasn't sure he wanted to stay with them because he didn't want to die for them.

He had to try and stay close, even if that meant saying he'd help them with whatever their goal was. Even if that goal was killing Ludinus.

But he didn't want to die for these people who killed "his friends" in the Ruby Vanguard. Of course he didn't. He didn't want to die for people he was there to get revenge on.

He wanted to try and talk the guards of the temple away from the fight before it started, because maybe they didn't know (according to Bor'Dor's world view) just how much the gods weren't watching and didn't care. Because maybe they were smart enough not to try dying for a god that didn't care to try and protect them.

But he had absolutely no problem shooting a paladin/cleric of the Dawnfather in the back and then bleeding her out to summon a demon. Because she was devoted to one of the very gods that he felt had abandoned him and his mother. And he felt no remorse for ending someone who clearly had no compunctions about oppressing others in her god's name.

And... and Ashton's pipe couldn't lie. Even being a clearly very powerful mage, Bor'Dor didn't know what Ashton's pipe would do because Ashton hadn't told anyone what it did up to that point.

Bor'Dor's greatest, most heroic achievement in life was shooting that Fire Bolt at the practice dummy, and celebrating with everyone, and finally, finally, feeling a sense of belonging for the first time in his life. With the people who killed his friends and fellow Vanguard members. That must have fucking hurt.

I'm not going anywhere with this really, except that Utkarsh really played a character that, for me at least, has to be the single most tragic character on this show. And now that the adrenaline has worn off, my heart just hurts for him. It hurts that in the end, he didn't even try to fight back. He was done. He wanted peace. He wanted to see his family again. He was tired of fighting and watching people die and he was still just a scared young man who had watched people around him die in the name of the gods or in the name of killing the gods for his entire life, and he just... wanted to be done.

Enough.

[meanderingpenguin]

It feels like in Campaign 3 they've done Guests very differently than the other two? In the other campaigns they did tight smaller personal arcs for the guest that could be finished in 1-3 episodes and then the guest quickly left. If they were called back later it was specifically to help the Main Party's storyline in some way with a quick life update of what's been going on off screen.

Every guest this season has had a minimum of five episodes, longer than Bertrand Bell himself. They've built a real or at least complex connection with most of the party, and then left with their plotline pretty much demanding they return to get closure at some point. With the exception of the dead one of course.

Dorian is a full member of Bells Hells and the Crown Keepers. He still has multiple plot crumbs with his Parents, his Title and responsibilities, his Brother, and of course reuniting with Orym and Fearne (and the rest of the party) at some point.

Yu made a time limited contract with the party. Then the Hells failed their part of the agreement when Ira stole the Crown from them and for extra oomph they snuck into Yu's court, blew shit up there, and were explicitly seen by Yu's boss as they escaped. Yu has the plotline crumbs of still being aligned with the people the Hells are fighting, still maybe having a contract to hunt down Fearne's parents and Fearne, and also the potential that they are being punished for failing in the first place.

Deni$e is going to catch up with the Crown Keepers at some point and give Dariax a piece of her mind. Whether we get more Crown Keeper's specials with her or we just get the updates some other way, her storyline isn't finished yet.

F.R.I.D.A. is basically a member of the Bells Hells now. They're going on a sidequest for the party's needs and have promised to help them in their fight. They still have connections to the looming Devexian plotline as well. Very important person to F.C.G. and the idea they'd never see each other again is unacceptable.

Deanna is also like Dorian and F.R.I.D.A. in that she's basically a member of the party now. She has a strong emotional bond with the four she traveled with. (And her potential conversations with the other three would be very interesting if she had the time to dig deeper.) She's doing what she can to help the Hells stop Ludinus. Out of all the clerics this campaign her relationship with her deity seems the most complicated and interesting? She still has the plotlines of however her sidequest turns out, whether or not she and the Dawnfather will come to an understanding or if she'll be punished further, and of course her connection with Chetney and Fearne will always be fun to explore more of.

Pri$m. Bonded with Orym, Laudna, and Ashton. Orym is her bestie now. Ashton seems to have set her on a new rebellious path in life. She also wants to take Laudna to the Shadowfel soon. Alongside Deanna and F.R.I.D.A she is now doing quests to help the Hells. Biggest of all, with Keyleth and Planerider Ryn both out of commission, Prism is the person closest to the party who knows teleport if the staff breaks or isn't powered up. The table always calls on their teleportation buddies when possible.

It's a different approach to guest party members? I feel like we're either at or nearing the second half of the campaign soon. So I'm curious how, when, and in what order we'll start to see these plotlines and connections tied up.

[nellasbookplanet]

Kind of fascinated by how, initially, what brought Laudna and Imogen together were recognizing their similarities - the feeling of being an ostracized outsider whose presence evokes a not entirely unwarranted fear; of having powers granted by a mysterious patron they are largely in the dark about yet know, in their heart of hearts, is dangerous both to them and the world at large; of still being tempted and enamoured by this power despite their better judgement - and how they in recent episodes have started moving in polar opposite directions in how to deal with these dark powers.

Imogen has admitted to temptation but, as she sees more and more proof of the danger of both Predathos and the Ruby Vanguard, is violently resisting it. Laudna, meanwhile, has openly called herself a dead end. She can see no way out of her predicament and so instead of trying to fight she’s decided to try to harness as much of it as she can before it burns her out. For what seems like the first time, she and Imogen are truly at odds at where to go; Laudna says maybe we're destined to harness it, Imogen says maybe we're destined to fight it; Laudna is regressing and Imogen is growing; Laudna says move on if I die, Imogen says I don’t accept it. The very fact that Imogen went to the Dawnfather for help, the god with whom Laudna now has bitter history, is a fascinating choice. Would Laudna even accept that help? She certainly wouldn’t ever ask for it. Yet finding a new patron, someone to keep her going after Delilah, seems her only option, but it’s one she’ll never seek on her own because she can’t see the point. They connected thanks to their pasts and now, as they begin to look to their futures, their paths are diverging with Laudna treading blindly towards a dangerous end.

[mayapapaya33]

This is dangerous to write because I'm a bit behind in C3 but I feel relatively safe that The Chained Oblivion isn't a major player in C3. I don't think they're secretly Predathos or the Luxon. (haha watch me be completely wrong lol. If the answer is revealed post C3 ep 86 shhhhh! No spoilers in general, don't be a dick.)

Ok so we know The Chained Oblivion is bound at the bottom of the Abyss by 6 shackles tethered to various points in Exandria. Their locations are a closely guarded internal secret of clergy of the Dawnfather and the Knowing Mistress. We know the location of one in Rexxentrum from C2. My question is, how much do you want to bet one of the shackle's fanes is in Whitestone? lol.

In C1 Matt used to tease them, and us by extension, with the Sun Tree by saying that the Sun Tree may know a LOT of information, but they were asking the wrong questions. That's been in my mind this whole time. What does Matthew McConatree know?!?! Well, the Sun Tree is a tree sacred to The Dawnfather, and rests at the intersection of powerful Ley Lines. The tree was there before the city, in fact, they built the city around the tree. The tree was planted during the Calamity directly over The Knowing Mistresses' Ziggurat temple, and the location of her wounding. We never fully got an answer as to WHY the Sun Tree is there! Is the Sun Tree just watching over the scene of the final battle or is it something more? In fact in C1 ep 70 at (3:10:35) Matt says that Keyleth senses the Ley Lines shoot off in SIX different directions! SIX! The Chained Oblivion is held by SIX chains!!!!!! COINCIDENCE?!?! I THINK NOT!!!! (Ok maybe it is, but still, Matt is ridiculously detailed in his world building, I wouldn't put it past him!)

Whitestone is so fucking cursed. It was messed up long before the Briarwoods got there, they just made it worse. It's where the final battle between The Chained Oblivion, The Knowing Mistress, And The Dawnfather started, The Ziggurat was her temple before it was corrupted, it's where she was wounded (I saw a theory somewhere that the raw essence in Whitestone's rock that can be refined into residuum is actually The Knowing Mistress' blood, which is genius, whoever came up with that, I think you are absolutely correct! That's so damn cool! It has SOMETHING to do with their battle, that much is for sure, what else could it be from?)

The battle ended in Gatshadow, so that's another candidate. Gatshadow is cool, and another important place from C1, but if I had to put money on it, I feel like Whitestone is just one of those places that never catches a break lol. Also Percy's family were originally followers of the Dawnfather (if I remember correctly). The city is a Dawnfather leaning city, Vex is a/the champion of the Dawnfather, which I hope C3 subtly develops further if only in the background. I feel like, of those who were war time converts to fight Vecna, Vex would probably take her duties as Champion most seriously especially considering her position in Whitestone and its relation to the Dawnfather. I'd love to see some Champion of the Dawnfather Vex'ahlia in later C3. (Again don't tell me if it happens).

If Gatshadow was super important strategically, you'd think The Dawnfather would have left a Sun Tree there to keep watch. Maybe he did and we just haven't run across it yet? Seems like we would have seen it on our way to fight Umbrasyl but you never know. They should check the Cobalt Soul library and see if there are any other Sun Trees in Exandria or if Whitestone is it. (The Cobalt Soul, who's favored deity is the Knowing Mistress, someone high up there definitely knows where the chain fanes are!) On second though that's probably way too obvious, having a Sun Tree in each location. They should figure out what other powerful symbols/ followers/ creations of The Dawnfather and The Knowing Mistress there are and look for those! Sphinx's and Sun Trees are only the start. This'll totally be important in Campaign 4 or 5 or 27! Matt plays the long game! He's mentioned The Chained Oblivion too many times for it to not come up again eventually. After the shenanigans around the Angel of Iron's cult and Obaan, and Aeor, Cognoza, the Somnovum, The Eyes of Nine, all that Jazz.

With nothing preventing it from influencing people even from the bottom of the Abyss, it'll happen again. So even if it's just an eternal game of whack-a-mole we'll be seeing their influence somewhere, somehow, at some point lol. "No! Bad! Quit influencing mortals from your prison in the Abyss! Bad Eldritch Abomination, the form of which, were I to look upon it, my sanity would melt into a gibbering puddle of goo! Stop That! Stay!

[jae-birde]

The Legend of Vox Machina Liveblog: Episode 2

I just finished the second episode of TLOVM season 3, and this breakdown got long.

(I reference the campaign again some, so if you don't want spoilers for that, maybe stay clear from my breakdown)

(Breakdown under the cut)

Starting off immediately with Orthax and Ripley is exactly what I wanted holy shit. I need to know if Percy's okay

holy shit is it just me or does Orthax look even more terrifying here? because he does to me oh my gods.

"You left it a whisper, but that whisper found me" Is the word choice of "whisper" intentional? Because I'm just thinking of the Vestige rn

Okay, that shot of Percy with Ripley walking away reflected in his glasses is SO GOOD. WHY DOES IT GO SO HARD

And Ripley admittedly looks really badass with Orthax coming up behind her like that (it's mostly bc of Orthax tho) And the delivery of her last line there? So good

I've talked about it before but HOLY SHIT THE INTRO GOES SO HARD

THE MUSIC IS AMAZING

THE ANIMATION

THE GODDAMN STORYTELLING HOLY SHIT

Gods above it just makes me so much more hyped for the whole show omg

Keyleth immediately blaming it on Raishan, lol. In character

Oooo, the idea of using Mythcarver to find Ripley + Percy. I don't think they ever did that in the campaign, though I might be mistaken lol

Vax amping up his flirtiness with Gilmore to get him to help, heh, I don't think that'll work

Oh, never mind it did work

OOOOOO, DESGUISE SELF, COOL!

Omg I turned on subtitles for when Gilmore was speaking Marquesian, and it actually had the translations! That's so cool!

And ah, yes. The twins sneaking in together. Honestly? The best two to go in

Aaaaannndd now Ripley monologuing about spreading the guns around Exandria. Perfect

Okay, but they're actually making Ripley's point seem somewhat understandable. Like, I get where she's coming from, but she's def not seeing the whole picture about the guns. Like, if everyone in Exandria had one, it would be, like Percy said, chaos. Plus I still absolutely despise her.

OOOOOO, RIPLEY WANTS THE VESTIGES AS A POWER SUPPLY

I honestly never thought too much about why she wanted them in the campaign, but this is interesting!

And now we're back to the twins!

Honestly, a little sad we didn't get the absolute madness that was Vox Machina trying to cover their tracks at the murder scene, as we saw in the campaign, but I def understand why they didn't. Plus, this is really interesting to see the twins investigating!

OMG CLASP MENTION

"Oh, I'm Vax, I was in a thieves' guild, I'm so cool" "seven days a week" gotta love the sibling teasing and banter between the two of 'em! XD

OOOP, THE OTHER GUARDS MIGHT BE CATCHING ONTO GILMORE, FUCK

Poor Gilmore, man. If the spell he used is the same as Disguise Self in D&D, then he was waiting out there for almost an hour for the twins.

OH NO, A GUARD SPOTTED THEM, FUCK

OMG KAYLIE! YAY

And Scanlan is such a proud dad watcher her too, aww. (I doubt she'll appreciate it much tho)

"That's my daughter up ther" OMG HE'S SO SO PROUD I LOVE THIS MAN SO MUCH

DOCTOR DRANZEL! Everyone give it up for Dr. Dra!

NICODRANIS MENTION?

And we're once again at Ripley. Of course

OH FUCK MASS PRODUCED GUNS POWERED BY VESTIGES? FUCK NO

"Once the weak rise up, what's to stop the oppressed from becoming oppressors" THANK YOU PERCY, THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING

"That's why I need you Percival, you understand humanity far more than I" Yeah, bitch, it's cuz you aint got much left

PERCY NO DON'T SAY YES DON'T SAY IT. PERCY NO.

PERCY YOU BETTER BE PLANNING SOMETHING I SWEAR TO THE DAWNFATHER I WILL REACH THROUGH THE SCREEN AND BEAT YOUR ASS IF YOU HELP HER

omg the rest of the party's at a Gilmore rip-off. Why is that so funny?

"I'm sorry about earlier, I just-" "Didn't believe me? No one does." KIKI BABY NO

Keyleth, stop lying, it's clearly not fine, you need to talk to someone about this!

Vex worrying about Percy, ah! My heart can't take it!

OMG SHE CARES SO MUCH FUCK GLINTSHORE IS GONNA HURT SO FUCKING BAD FUCK

Vax clearly SEES how much his sister cares for Percy, you can see it so clearly on his face.

Omg, is that the githyanki skull over where Grog was looking?

Oh, Grog playing along with the kids, he's so freakin' cute, I love him so much.

Okay, but Grog is actually lowkey really clever for asking the kids about that

Grog I adore you

OMG IT'S THE CLIP

IT'S THE CLIP THAT DROPPED THE SAME DAY AS THE MIGHTY NEIN SNEAK PEAK

I KNOW THIS SCENE

"There are times to talk and times to fight, but sometimes you've just gotta run" That's a really good quote by Pike

Holy shit what kind of armour do the guards have? damn that's cool

PLS DON'T GET ARRESTED GILMORE

FUCK HE GOT ARRESTED

Omg Vax is fucking Narruto runnign. First Percy, now him? lol

Aaaannnddd, now we're back to Scanlan & Kaylie. Say what you will about splitting the party, but it adds a lot of intrigue to a show like this!

"You're not making this easy on me are you?" "Did you make it easy on me and mum?" Scanlan, she's definitely got you there

Okay, so my first thought was don't mention the vestige, but if Kaylie found out later than she'd definitely be more upset he lied, so good job Scanlan!

Scanlan I swear to god if you run off because you're worried about being accused of being one of the "foriegners who killed someone", I will punt you. You CANNOT leave Kaylie again, I will actually reach through the screen to punt you, I'm warning you

Okay, it cut. He better not fucking run.

Percy, I will beat your ass later assuming you're not trying to play Ripley, but also I feel bad for him considering he has to listen to the demon that was in his head for several years talk about wanting his soul to the woman who literally tortured him. Cannot be easy

"That is very disconcerting" LITERALLY WHAT I'M SAYING

PERCY WHAT ARE YOU DOIJNG YPOU ABSOLUTE DUMBASS DONT WORK WITH THE BITCH

NEVER MIND I LOVE YOU PERCY KILL THE BITCH

Wait, the plate was damaged. OH MY GOD IS IT A FAKE?

OH FUCK ORTHAX AND RIPLEY (also the shot with Ripley holding Percy by the throat and Orthax curling above lowkey goes hard)

Ooooo, Ripley DID get the black and orange eye! Cool!

FUCK YEAH VEX SAVE YOUR MAN

COMING IN LIKE A BADASS I LOVE THIS WOMAN SO FUCKING MUCH

FUCK YEAH GROG

FUCK NO RIPLEY YOU BITCH

VOX MACHINA GET HER ASS

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH NO ONE SPEAK TO ME PERC'AHLIA HUG PERC'AHLIA HUG I'M GOIGN TO COMBUST

"I thought I'd lost you" "I'm here, Vex'ahlia" And what if I just died, huh? Because I love them so much (and also because Vex does lose Percy and there is a time where he won't be there, and fuck I'm sad again) AND OMG THE WAY THEY ARE HOLDING EACH OTHER I CAN'T I LOVE THEM SO MUCH

THE WAY SHE LEANS INTO HIS HAND

I'M GONNA DIE AND THEY ARE THE REASON I LOVE THEM

YES KIKI FREEZE RIPLEY'S ASS

OH FUCK I FORGOT ABOUT RIPLEY'S GUN. FUCK

VEX NOOOOO! OH NO OH NO OH NO OH FUCK

OH FUCK NO VEX GOT SHOT AND PERCY'S GONNA HAVE A GUILT COMPLEX OVER IT BEING HIS FAULT AND I SWEAR NO ONE BETTER BLAME PERCY OR I WILL RIOT

YES KEYLETH BREAKING OUT THE SUNLIGHT SPELL, QUEEN!

Oh fuck i thought Vex was hit in the shoulder not the chest FUCK (at least it's not lethal tho)

OH GOD THE MIXING OF RIPLEY'S AND ORTHAX'S VOICES IT'S JUST LIKE S1 WITH PERCY

Oh fuck VEX

Thank SARENRAE Pike was there my god. Also really good to get the bullet out, I was worried about that too

"You saved me. Twice." "What would you do without me?" *Cradles Perc'ahlia in my hands* No, you don't understand, I would die for them

FUCK THE GUARDS ARE HERE

THAT'S NOT GOOD

OMG J'MON SA ORD IS COMING IN, HELL YES! I cannot WAIT to see what they'll look like!

SCANLAN NO, DON'T YOU DARE LEAVE

Scanlan I swear if you get you're daughter arrested we will have words

Scanlan, if you keep acting like this, you're gonna make it worse. You can't be distracted for this conversation, man!

"The truth is, when I'm on stage, I'm golden. Straight fire. But when the lute goes down, I kinda... I don't know who I am." Oh Scanlan, the poor man. I appreciate that we're getting into these issues earlier, like, it's so clear throughout Campaign 1 that Scanlan struggles a lot with who he is, but hearing him actually really talk about it, especially before his Bard's Lament, is something I appreaciate.

SCANLAN, THEY AREN'T EVEN LOOKING FOR YOU

JUST TALK TO YOUR DAUGHTER MAN

OMG VOX MACHINA IS ABOUT TO MEET J'MON SA ORD, THIS IS GONNA BE GREAT (...let's just hope they don't fuck it up)

Percy, darling, don't blame yourself, please

OMG THE SMILE THAT PERCY GIVES VEX I CAN'T. AND THE SMILE SHE GIVES HIM. They are seriously trying to kill me with the amount of Perc'ahlia this season. AND IT'S THE SECOND EPISODE

I appreciate them showing Vex sensing J'mon, considering they are a dragon too.

OMG J'MON LOOKS SO GOOD

And them having (what I presume is) a pseudodragon is such a nice touch!

yeah, i don't think talking it out is gonna quite work Gilmore, but good shot!

Keyleth, honey, I love you, but I don't know if this is gonna help!

"Where you not here to steal them?" Oop. Caught red-handed. I Y'all better say that you were gonna ask or you're basically screwed.

Vax, you idiot.

Oh fuck, this is exactly the problem with Percy existing in Ank'harel at this time, Ripley is fucking things up. As she does

PERCY NO

I KNOW YOU'RE TRYING TO PROTECT EVERYONE ELSE BUT DARLING NO

Oh fuck and him saying "i take full responsibility" is him saying that he takes responsibility for Ripley and Orthax, because they were his problem first and in his mind he "let them" get here. Fuck

Vox Machina trying to convince J'mon of their collective innocence vs. Percy's raging guilt complex. Which will win?

Oh god, Vex's face. Oh no

THE TRANSFORMATION? WHAT THE FUCK

FUCK VEX'S FACE AS THEY'RE BEING DRAGGED OUT NO FUCK PERCY

Oh my GOD Scanlan are you shitting me? Did you get the fucking Sandkeg's Hide? Please tell me you didn't. This is a conversation to be SOBER

"I just wanna be in your wife, I mean life" Scanlan you are clearly too drunk for this

Scanlan. Man. Please. Good god, I feel bad for Kaylie because she has to deal with this.

Oh Kaylie, honey no, he does wanna change, he just doesn't know how yet.

Oh, I feel bad for Scanlan too. Fuck

Finally! Finally, Vox Machina found him!

Aw, Pike jumping in to protect him <3

Oh, poor Scanlan. He's really struggling rn, and I feel so bad because I know that it gets worse

Vex, I know you're worried, trust me, so am I, but c'mon, the man is struggling!

I'm onto Percy's next bit now. *chuckles nervously* what the fuck

OH FUCK THAT'S WHAT J'MON MEANT WHEN THEY SAID TRANSFORMATION

Oh Percy, darling, FUCK I'M GONNA CRY

OH FUCK WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING THIS IS SOME FREAKY SHIT GOING ON

OH GOD HIM SEEING VOX MACHINA FOR A MOMENT STOP MY HEART

Scanlan coming in clutch with the "OBJECTION" thank FUCK

Okay, but the guards picking him up by the arms and him staying exactly how he was is unreasonably hilarious

Oh god, he's still drunk. Fuck. This might go terribly

WAIT OH MY GOD WE'RE GETTING BURT REYNOLDS THE LAWYER NOW OH MY GOD YES

Using Mythcarver to prove Percy's innocence is actually GENIUS

Holy shit the animation when J'mon uses Mythcarver and their eyes light up and hair gets all flowy and shit goes HARD

OH FUCK ORTHAX SAW? FUCK

Can we all just say together THANK YOU SCANLAN

OH MY GODS THE LOOK THAT PERCY AND VEX SHARED

AND HER HOLDING HIS HAND

FUCK I LOVE THEM SO MUCH

Oh Scanlan, he still feels bad about how things went with Kaylie

OMG MORE FORGIVENESS TALK WITH PERCY AND VEX LETS GOOOO

"But I am to blame for what I made" I FUCKING CALLED IT. I KNEW THIS WAS HIS THOUGHT PROCESS

Also, can we talk about how beautiful this animation is? When it does the close up on Percy it looks SO GOOD

Like, LOOK AT THIS. THIS IS GORGEOUS

(yes I'm watching with subtitles, i wanna know what they say in Marquesian)

"And above all else, I just didn't want you to see me that way" PERCY DARLING, YOU CAN'T KEEP DOING THIS TO MY HEART

OH MY GOD THIS SCENE IS BEAUTIFUL

I SIMPLY ADORE THEM

"I've been thinking long and hard about our options." "What'd you come up with?" "Nothin'. Just wanted you to know I'd been thinking" And this, everyone, is why I adore Grog strongjaw

I KNEW IT WAS A FAKE I FUCKING KNEW IT

MAGIC ITEMS THAT STRONG DON'T GET DAMAGED LIKE THAT, THEY DON'T

"I did the only responsible thing." Did you put the real one in the Hells?

"I hid it in a place beyond even Thordak's reach" It's the fucking Hells isn't it

"Are you familiar with the Hells of Despath?" I fucking knew it

WAIT ZERXUS? AS IN THE FIRST KNIGHT OF AVALIR DURING THE CALAMITY ZERXUS? HOLY SHIT? WHAT THE FUCK? OH MY GOD REALLY? PLEASE TELL ME THEY GOT LUIS CARAZO TO PLAY HIM PLEASE

OMG THE END CREDITS IS DRANZEL'S SONG

OMG IT'S ABOUT RUBY LAVORRE

I FUCKING KNEW IT

I ABSOLUTELY FUCKING KNEW IT

Okay is this Matt singing? Because oh my god if is he is seriously so good! Whoever it is, but still

Okay, so I absolutely LOVED the episode! It was only like 25 minutes but it felt so much longer! (and that might've been because I kept pausing to write this, but shhhh)

This was really good, and I really enjoyed seeing everyone throughout the episode, and seeing the changes they're making too! It's so cool to see and I'm definitely looking forwards to what comes next! (i am both terrified and excited at the prospect of Glintshore happening soon, oh my god)

I don't have time to watch another episode rn, but this one was so good!

[nanierose]

Thinking on Orym's very good point that killing the gods would in fact be somewhat of a genocide, I do think another valid point needs to be raised. That being that for all the group talk about free will, gods never listening to them, power doesn't just come from the gods, why can't we just have faith in people etc. they're kind of ignoring a key point.

There are millions of people in Exandria who do have faith in the gods, get power from them and they would be significantly harmed by the gods dying. They worship them through their own will the majority of the time, and they wouldn't do so if they didn't feel they were getting something out of it. It's all well and good having an opinion, but when there is an active threat I do feel discounting the opinions of a large portion of society is not great. Most people of faith are not like the Dawnfather missionaries in Hearthdell. They're ordinary people who go about their day, trying to live by the tenants set out by their chosen god. Just because you don't feel the gods have helped you personally, doesn't mean they haven't helped others. We can all agree forcing your faith on others is harmful and wrong. But arguing that maybe killing the gods that so many people rely on is a good thing isn't great either.

[quipxotic]

Time for another Campaign 3 wish list. Spoilers for the campaign up to C3E72, so be forewarned.

Here's a few things I'd love to see in upcoming episodes, in no particular order:

Ashton meeting a god. Preferably not the Dawnfather because I can't imagine that being anything but an explosive experience for everyone involved. Maybe the Changebringer? Maybe someone else? Not that I think such a meeting would change his opinion of them. But Ashton took the words of the angel in the Dawnfather's temple very personally and that's what motivated them to make changes in their life, many of which seem pretty positive. I've always thought their interpretation of that event a little odd and would love to see it challenged. Since the only ones in Team Issylra who could do that right now, Laudna and Orym, seem disinclined to do so, why not a god?

The witches spending some time together. If that leads to Imogen and Laudna telling Fearne they're dating, then great! If not, that's fine too.

FCG and Laudna talking about Turn Undead, including how it makes Laudna feel. Also all of Bell's Hells coming up with a plan for how FCG can still turn the undead while eliminating or limiting the damage to Laudna.

Orym and Ashton talking about how over the last day (in-game) our favorite halfling has rushed into battle twice, far ahead of everyone else, without support or communicating any type of plan. Both times he took major damage and in one he got very close to being knocked unconscious. He could get away with that kind of recklessness when the party was facing weaker, less organized threats, but they're dealing with some heavy hitters now and will be even more so if they go back to the dig site or to the moon. Personally, I don't think Orym has a death wish, but I do think he's willing to sacrifice himself for even the slimiest chance of preventing the people he cares about from dying on his watch. Previously the tanks had a pretty good track record of communicating and supporting each other in a fight. They need to get back on track before they face the battles they have ahead of them.

Everyone in BH talking with the tree. Let's face it, all of them need therapy and all of them could do with some hard truths.

No one in BH becoming incapacitated from cold damage on this sailing trip. This is one I suspect I'm not going to get; after all, there has to be a negative side-effect to traveling on a ghost ship.

Ashton using their Titan of Blood and chaos powers in front of someone not in BH but who recognizes those powers for what they are. I am partially dreading and partially hoping for this because so many interesting, and in some cases terrible, things could happen when someone powerful figures out who and what they are.

Imogen and FCG talking. I don't care what they talk about, I just like their dynamic.

Fearne and Ashton stealing from each other. If they end up having a real one-on-one conversation, maybe about that forehead kiss before the battle on the solstice, then wonderful.

Chetney not dying in his sleep or from any other cause before a) there are negative consequences for giving up that cursed sword and b) Deanna kicks his ass for trading away her ring.

Everyone sleeping in a great big pile together to conserve heat. I'm a sucker for the "there was only one bed" and similar tropes.

[elahogn]

My penny on C3e63. Spoiler Alert.

Stop reading if you don't want spoiler about Team Issyral.

We all wonder wtf is going on with Bor'Dor, but we are all collectively so shocked when the truth came out (trust me, i was there when the chat room went feral). Utkash is brilliant at playing the character. He endeared us so much with character choices. And we don't expect such a plot twist from a first time player at the table like him! The only moment his mask kinda cracked was when he questioned the group about the moral of killing after the coup against the Dawnfather Church, he didn't sound so naive in that moment. When Deni$e asked him about the brother, he said 'I don't have' a brother cuz it's the truth, he doesn't have a brother anymore in the present, he did have one, and a family before they were taken away by the gods-worshiping people. Looking back on it, he was the first one to agree to join the townspeople rebellion against the church despite how he seemed so afraid and inexperienced in battle. And the moment he casted Inflict wound on the angel seemed so well calculated as it perfectly mirrored the moment an accidental Inflict wound took away his family and his belief towards the gods. In his last effort to escape from the group, he tried to tell his truth and casting the spell through the piece of crystal, which to his understanding, doesn't amplify the spell but divide it into smaller damages to multiple targets. He didn't want to kill the group, he was just trying to escape cuz he knows he doesn't stand a chance against this group of powerful people. Other than seeing his story as a betrayal to the group, it only makes it clearer how manipulative Ludinus is, collecting followers into his army against the gods by using their trauma and promise about a changed Exandria.

Many in the chat room were surprised by Orym's action in that moment, which was not taking any action against Laudna taking Bor'Dor's live. But to me, it's true to Orym. He hunts down the Ruby Vanguard cuz they took away his love and his family. And Bor'Dor is part of the Vanguard. As Orym said, it's war, it's cruel, maybe in a different timeline, no one needs to die.

[butterflydm]

I might need to rewatch that big last conversation when it comes out on youtube next week, because it was a lot, but it does leave me with many more questions than answers.

If I am remembering correctly, the Arch Heart asks Bells Hells if they know what a vessel is, kinda goes, ~eh close enough~ to their answers and never gives them any true clarity.

The Arch Heart. As they themselves stressed a few times, what they said last night was their own opinion, so I'm just going to poke at their history and some thoughts of their plan a bit.

(cutting for length)

A. Gives mortals the ability to use arcane magic just to see what they'll do with it.

B. Age of Arcanum happens. A mage is able to construct a ritual to replace the god of death. Using her example, a second mage attempts the same with the Lord of the Hells but fucks it up and gives Asmodeus a window into the world. This leads us into the Calamity.

C. During the Calamity, Aeor becomes blocked to the gods' vision. This worries them enough to call something of a truce and to incorporate into, well, let's call them vessels, at least for now. Upon investigating Aeor, they discover a weapon that can kill them, and we get Downfall. During this period, the Arch Heart briefly floats the idea that death is somewhat fascinating to them but ultimately fights with the other gods for the protection and preservation of their family.

D. Ludinus grows up, bitter and angry about the gods. As the god who gave mortals magic, is the Arch Heart aware of his plan before the others are? Or did they remain just as much in the dark?

E. Sometime off-screen, the gods do become aware that a dangerous plan is afoot and begin marshalling forces against the Ruby Vanguard and investigating more. Gods we have seen extend and influence their followers into this effort would include the Dawnfather, the Everlight, the Changebringer, the Storm Lord, the Wildmother, the Platinum Dragon, the Matron of Ravens, the Lord of the Hells, and the Spider Queen. (Am I missing anyone?)

Which god is it that agrees with the Arch Heart? Presumably not one of those who is actively setting their followers against the Vanguard and Ludinus.

F. Somewhere in all this, the Arch Heart learns about Ludinus's plans and, just like they considered their Aeorian mages' plans to be worthy of consideration, the Arch Heart is wondering if perhaps Ludinis's plan has merit. Not all of it. Not the part that actually kills any of their family. But maybe this is the push their siblings need to let go of Exandria. So the Arch Heart wonders.

G. Establishes that Bells Hells are not certain what being a vessel would mean, and cheerfully pushes them towards a plan that involves Fearne and/or Imogen becoming a vessel for Predathos and controlling that power/hunger enough to scare all the gods off Exandria without killing them.

Can't/won't answer what that means for the vessel's mortal body. How will Predathos chase the gods in a mortal body? Will that body get overwhelmed by the power and mist away, like the gods' mortal forms at the end of Downfall?

If the mortal body isn't overwhelmed and stays intact but isn't able to endure the vacuum of space, will Predathos turn that hunger on the available food near it? On the divine power of the Luxon, perhaps?

What is the plan to account for the gods who might care more about staying to protect 'their children' and might not be willing to leave?

It sounds like, from what the Arch Heart says, that the gods are in active discussion about the idea of bringing down the Divine Gate so that they can act more forcefully against Ludinus. That potential second Calamity.

Definitely more questions than answers, which suits the god that influences the fey. Also, I know some fans were indignant that Bells Hells needed to justify their inclusion in the plan against some of the religious folks' concerns, but the fact that they're considering the Arch Heart's plan kinda feels like it justifies those worries and concerns that we saw from the assembled people in the meeting at Vasselheim. The whole reason that those clerics & etc. were worried, presumably, is because of Ruby Vanguard infiltration in their ranks making them concerned about betrayal from within. And BH keeps getting offered opportunities to enact those betrayals.

[odusseus-xvi]

I've seen some people feeling weird about Bells Hells sentiment about the gods saying that "they did get signs from the gods and they just ignored them" and THAT's actually rubbing me the wrong way, because that's not really what happened. (I'm not saying they are right to think that the gods did nothing, just that they ignored the gods is not entirely true :)

"The Everlight resurrected Laudna through Pike" and that's a crucial detail, not only do they not know about the Everlight doing that specifically, but they most probably believe PIKE did that, not her godess. It's not the Everlight that said "Hey let me bring back your friend", Pike did, and like they said countless times : "I have faith in the people."

The Wildmother has had interactions with both Orym and Fearne : Yes, and he actually has kept that to himself (maybe he should have talked about it with more than just Chet) and he actually is one of the Bells Hells that is for saving the gods. As for Fearne, she doesn't seem to care much in general.

"Ashton has the Luxon in their head !" None of them know what the Luxon is.

"The Dawnfather had interactions with Deanna and brought her back to life !!" And again they probably think (and honestly I think with reason) that the Dawnfather didn't initiate that alone, someone else had to do that. Plus with Team Issylra's adventures it probably didn't help.

"The Changebringer and FCG ??" Well yes, and FCG is the only one that is fully for saving the gods. Not only that but they saw FCG perform magic on his own before meeting the Changebringer, they don't know if interacting with Avandra really brought anything.

"They just got a message of the Matron of Ravens", yes, that boiled down to "HELP". They already know that the gods need help.

Basically what they feel (or at least what I felt was happening) was not so much "The gods are not giving us signs" but more "Where were you when I actually needed you, when so many people got screwed over all around me. If you have so much power, why didn't you use it.". And again I'm not saying that it's how this works (I do think it's quite the opposite actually), but it makes sense to get that sentiment from people who's life got screwed multiple times and who had no education of the gods, and of which's signs recently was mostly distress calls.

And honestly I do think this sentiment will change over the course of future events, because I do think this is not how they are gonna save the world. (waiting for Chet to worship the Matron, and for The Luxon to reveal itself to Ashton.)

(Also saw someone say "do they not know that without the help of the gods Vox Machina would not have defeated Vecna", well, probably not, The Mighty Nein, wich happened only 7 years prior to Bells Hells barely knew about Vox, and outside of maybe Orym, all of Bells (first did not know about Vox) were surpsied to know Keyleth got to meet gods.)

(sorry for the probable many syntax mistakes english's not my first language)