#manipulation young royals

[raincitygirl76]

Marcus is only 18, and he had very strong feelings for a boy who did not return those feelings. To Simon, Marcus was a distraction from his grief over the boy Simon was still in love with having betrayed him. To Marcus, he and Simon had a beautiful relationship. Marcus was seeing what he wanted, not reality. But unrequited love is a BITCH, especially when you’re only 18.

That said, in 2.03, Marcus weaponizing Simon’s childhood trauma to talk Simon out of his decision to break up with Marcus was a BAD thing to do. I make no excuses for that. Marcus’s mom (Lotte) and Linda Eriksson are friends. Friends tell each other their horrible divorce shit, and how their addicted, possibly abusive ex-husband fucked up their kids.

But they say that stuff in confidence! I don’t know if Marcus eavesdropped on his mom and Linda, or if Lotte betrayed her friend’s confidence by gossiping to her son. But Marcus had no right to that information and shouldn’t have used it against Simon when Simon was breaking up with him in 2.03. Period. No exceptions.

That said, Marcus is only 18 and still figuring shit out himself. He did controlling and manipulative things in his relationship with Simon. That does not necessarily mean he’s irredeemable forever. He and Simon would never have worked out, partly because there was this huge mismatch in their level of interest in each other, partly because Marcus didn’t listen to Simon.

He substituted what he WANTED to hear from Simon for Simon’s actual words, and used his confidential information about Simon’s past trauma to convince Simon his words and opinions about wanting to break up with Marcus were wrong. Not cool, Marcus. But a few years down the road, once he’s grown up a lot more, Marcus might be a perfectly good boyfriend to someone else.

He might yet realize he can’t manipulate someone he cares about into returning his feelings, and he has to listen to and act on what his partner is actually SAYING. Instead of ignoring that and substituting his preferred narrative. In which case Marcus could mature into much healthier relationship patterns. Or he might lean into his existing manipulative and controlling tendencies, and become a full-grown bad person.

At this point, it’s very hard to say. I’m not willing to write him off as as totally irredeemable at only 18. If he’s still doing this to his boyfriends at 23 or 28, then yeah, definitely. But he might figure his shit out still. It’s just he’ll do it off-camera, since his arc in the show is over. So it’s an eternal question mark.

Also, just because I think Marcus could mature does not mean I’m okay with what he did to Simon in 2.03. That was unforgivable. Also unforgivable was some of what he said in 2.06. In 2.04, Simon behaved very shittily. He used Marcus to try and make Wille jealous, then ghosted him. Marcus was entitled to feel hurt, angry, used, and humiliated, when Simon rolled out of Wilhelm’s bed in 2.06 to make it clear things with Marcus were officially over. And Marcus was entitled to express those feelings to Simon.

However, Marcus was NOT entitled to tell a 16 year old that he KNEW had been a victim of child pornography a few months ago that he liked playing the victim. Especially since the tape was still circulating on the internet, with Simon being revictimized every time some stranger watched it. Marcus made Simon’s life worse, and Simon has every right to hate and distrust Marcus for the rest of his life. In fact, I’d encourage him to avoid the guy at all costs.

My belief that Marcus might well mature with time and be better in future relationships is because not everyone’s personality and beliefs about how to conduct romantic relationships is set at 18. I was pretty emotionally immature at 18, and I wasn’t the only one. My belief Marcus might be able to change in the future doesn’t mean I’m okay with what he’s already done to Simon. I’m not. I’m just saying people have the capacity to grow and change, especially when they’re still just teenagers.

okay maybe this is a hot take but I'm so tired of y'all acting like marcus is the evil irredeemable person who was only out to get simon and deserves only bad things because he'll never change or something, etc. etc.

like a) he's still a teen and b) he's a character with NUANCE that people are ignoring just bc he got in the way of wilmon, and I'm so sick of the shallow fucking interpretations of him that we keep getting despite the fact that everyone had no problem with seeing august as a well rounded character. and god knows I complain and hate on him as much as the next person because he did do really shitty things, but I also know he's not a one dimensional character who only wanted to manipulate simon through the entire season, and I feel like the fandom has a hard time seeing that because we were already biased against him from the start

[sadhappylady]

Can we also talk a little about Kristina this season?

The manipulation and emotional blackmailing of Wille had me so furious!

Calling him to say she cannot handle this anymore! What about Wille? How is he supposed to handle it? He also lost Erik, and in addition he was outed to the world in such a horrenduous way, and then he was pushed into the closet and lost Simon because of that. And even if he won Simon back, he is under constant pressure.

And Kristina has the audacity to put the responsibility of the Crown on his shoulders! To carry alone, with no support.

I know she is grieving and that she is trying her best. But her best is not good enough!

The way I screamed when Wille called her out on her bad parenting!

[crownedwille]

"You would get more votes than him."

↳ Prince Wilhelm in 2.02

[silviakundera]

Ok but sometimes in The Princess Royal it's so fucking funny to think about how the rest of the capital are viewing them. In ep 17 everyone thinks it's all over for the princess, in house arrest in a temple copying texts and about to get banished to her country estate for eternity, and the noble houses put on hit on her too ambitious husband. Servants gossip is she's in denial about his death! How tragic.

In reality she was like, yeah and THEN the next part of our 65 step plan is that I'll take myself off the board and lower their guard by doing some shit to get me on house arrest. And in court I'll suggest some other punishments that'll get waived, so I can take down that asshole in Ministry of Justice with me. 💁 Then you dodge the inevitable murder attempts and come back with the evidence. Done & done. ✔

And instead of losing her mind about her dead husband, she really has a point that this old demon Pei Wenxuan has survived way worse and isn't gonna be taken out like that. 🙅

(not that she isn't legit worried and writing pining unsent letters to him, because she misses him constantly. BECAUSE SHE IS and it's awesome.)

[raincitygirl76]

Taking the video might have been okay, if he’d never shown it to anyone, deleted it as soon as he sobered up, and never spoken of its contents. People do stupid shit sometimes. People with an ounce of morality, though, realize when they’ve done something bad, and try to mitigate it. But holding onto the video for leverage for at least a week, and then leaking it to the entire fucking world, all because Wilhelm humiliated August in front of his precious Society, that was unforgivable.

Also, Wilhelm would never have been in a position to humiliate August if August hadn’t decided to make Simon the scapegoat for the drugs in 1.05. Wilhelm didn’t have a clue about August’s major financial problems until he had the music room fight with Simon and Simon told him.

Wilhelm then leveraged that information very effectively to hit back at August and take control of the Society. August wanted to punish Wilhelm for being “unmanly” by having this relationship with Simon, so he tried to get Wilhelm’s boyfriend expelled. And then he was SURPRISED when Wilhelm actually fought back against August trying to get rid of Simon.

What had August expected? That Wilhelm would sit back, shrug his shoulders, and agree to pin it all on his boyfriend, thus not only getting him expelled, but probably also getting him a criminal record? August has many cunning plans, but most of them fail totally fail to take into account that there are other smart, cunning, ruthless people in the world too. August’s cunning plans are stymied by not anticipating any fightback.

And Wilhelm spent 16 years being raised by Kristina II of Sweden. She is an expert manipulator, and Wilhelm isn’t stupid. Yeah, she can still get in his head sometimes and manipulate him. But he learned at his mother’s knee how to manipulate third parties.

Wilhelm doesn’t usually like playing the manipulation game. But that doesn’t make him a clueless naïf. When he chooses to play power games, he draws on everything he’s observed from his mother. He may not like the game very much, but he’s still pretty good at it, especially since he’s only 16.

Also, August’s plan to blame Simon was always idiotic. Unless Alexander claims Simon held him at gunpoint and forced him to carry the drugs, Alexander will still be in big trouble. Yeah, Simon would also get expelled, but Alexander was still the one caught red-handed with a big bag of drugs. August’s plan was never about saving Alexander. It was always about punishing the socialist for not knowing his place in the hierarchy.

And punishing Wilhelm for being unmanly by having a relationship with another boy. One where he went down, no less. I think August would’ve been less disgusted by the video if it had shown Simon going down on Wilhelm. Then August could spin it as his cousin being heterosexual but horny and desperate. Hey, a blowjob is a blowjob, you just close your eyes and think of a girl.

August would’ve been much happier if Wille had just been exploiting a gay boy’s attraction to him for one-sided orgasms. Instead Wille was an enthusiastic participant who wanted to give his partner pleasure too. August was repelled by that, and wanted to break Wilhelm and Simon up.

And then he was surprised when Wille objected, and had an alternate plan to August’s plan to get Wille’s boyfriend expelled. And was surprised when Wille fought back, and proved to be an effective adversary. August set this entire train of events in motion himself. He underestimated his cousin, he underestimated the intensity of his cousin’s feelings for his boyfriend, and he ended up humiliated in front of the Society.

And that’s when he finally used the leverage he’d been holding onto for at least a week. He leaked child pornography all over the internet with malice aforethought. All because his clever plan to split up his cousin and the socialist didn’t work. Because August is not the only clever, ruthless person in the world, and his cunning plans often lead to consequences he hadn’t foreseen.

look no matter how sad august's backstory is or whatever, taking that video of wille and simon was simply inexcusable unforgivable etc etc etc

[hillerskaroyals]

coincidence? i think NOT!

[boyguk]

happy to realise I haven't been crazy for being in team 'fuck marcus' since the very beginning, like of course he talked to the press about Wille and Simon since he didn't get what he wanted from Simon

[raincitygirl76]

This is a wonderful take on Kristina. Because she didn’t emerge from the womb fully-formed as the character we know now. She gradually BECAME this fiftysomething woman who is utterly consumed by her role as figurehead to a nation. I wonder how often she heard “being a princess is a privilege, not a punishment” from her parents when she was a girl. How did the king her father reply if she ever said she hadn’t asked for this? The barely suppressed rage in her voice when Wilhelm utters the same complaint to her and she says, “No one has ever, ever asked for this!” is suggestive, just to echo @amyriadfthings

Maybe Kristina too was a neurotic, unhappy, sensitive kid who wasn’t thrilled about her career choice being decided at birth by other people. And she too threw up and had panic attacks when she was nervous. Maybe she is so insistent on Wilhelm learning to control his emotions because she sees herself in her younger son, and she knows she got over this rebellious patch and moulded herself into the metaphorical Viking warrior we know.

And how much bullshit did Kristina have to endure because she was a future Queen rather than a future king? Fun fact, the real Sweden had agnatic primogeniture from 1809 (the Napoleonic era) until 1980. Meaning daughters and granddaughters of kings had zero succession rights, unlike countries which practiced male preference primogeniture (where a princess could inherit the throne if she had no surviving brothers).

Obviously Young Royals takes place in a make believe alternate Sweden with a made-up dynasty. But I wonder if Parliament in YR-Sweden switched to male preference primogeniture when Kristina was a child, when it became obvious she would not have any younger brothers. In which case she’d have no choice but to see being first in line as an honour, rather than a burden. If they changed the law just so she could inherit, perhaps on urging from her father, the king, who desperately wanted his only child to succeed him. And if she loved her dad, she wouldn’t want to disappoint him.

And I wonder if Kristina’s name became a burden to her as well. Being named after Sweden’s last Queen in her own right, the 17th century Christina. The real Christina became Queen in 1632 at the age of 5, and had a succession of regents until she was 18. She openly refused to marry, embraced androgyny in the way she dressed, and had many poorly-concealed romantic relationships with other women.

In the 17th century people struggled to define Queen Christina. In the 21st century she would probably be considered a lesbian. She finally caused the biggest scandal of her reign in 1654 when she converted to Catholicism, abdicated the throne in favour of a male cousin, and moved to Rome.

Obviously Young Royals Kristina has far less political power than her 17th century namesake. But I doubt it’s an accident Lisa Ambjorn named her after such a transgressive example of a female Swedish monarch. Our Kristina is bound up by convention and her sacred duty to the monarchy. The real Christina abandoned her duty, just as Kristina’s son threatens to abandon his duty.

So yes, our Kristina underestimates Wilhelm, underestimates his commitment to Simon, dismisses Simon as an “unfortunate romance” Wille will grow out of once he’s no longer 16 and prone to infatuation. She compares it to her own unfortunate romance around his age, a romance she doesn’t seem to recall with fondness.

She forgets that Wilhelm attached himself like a limpet to his desk when Jan-Olof ordered Malin to physically drag him out of Hillerska, and dared Kristina to survive a public scandal. Because there WOULD have been a public scandal if a classmate of Wilhelm’s had managed to get his taxpayer-funded bodyguards on video manhandling him out of Hillerska and into a waiting car on his mother’s orders.

THAT’s why Jan-Olof got Kristina on the phone. Not because he had an epiphany, but because his and Kristina’s Plan A had spectacularly failed thanks to a skinny but determined teen. Wilhelm and Simon were on the outs in 2.02, but for all their bickering, Wille refused to be parted from Simon. And thus Kristina blinked first in her stare down with her son.

You’d think 2.02 would have taught her not to underestimate her only surviving child, but it didn’t. She assumes the things she was indoctrinated in childhood to believe are things Wilhelm believes too. And he does believe them, at first, but his belief is wallpaper-thin. It doesn’t take Boris much time at all to scrape through that layer of indoctrination and ask Wille what HE wants out of life.

Kristina’s worst decision ever = assuming just because Boris is the Hillerska school psychologist, he’ll parrot the monarchical party line about the importance of secrecy and tradition. You can work for a reactionary institution and not be a reactionary yourself.

Kristina’s second worst decision = not giving August ANY punishment for posting revenge porn of her son, a minor. I think Wilhelm would have felt a little less betrayed by his mother if he’d seen August face consequences from her. Even if they were merely social consequences.

P.S. A shoutout to the casting director,for casting Pernilla August in a small but vital role. Ms August does SO much to convey Kristina’s complexity with limited screen time.

And great tags from @opheliascamander

Sometimes you´re out grocery shopping and idly browsing the frozen veg section when you suddenly remember that the queen threw up after Erik´s death when Wille said he´s always been compared to his brother and Wille threw up when he realized he´s going to have to keep being crown prince.

And you think about similar reactions to stress of parent and child and you remember the queen told Wille to take three deep breaths when he freaked out over Simon´s date and how she sends him to therapy to control his outbursts (ugh).

And you think where did it all go wrong that she can´t ever connect with her son when she´s obviously got some experience in that department. I think we meet her so far into her own history of controlling her emotions that she´s unable and mostly unwilling to connect even when Wille is outright asking her to be his mom (gah!), because oh hey, those would be more emotions she would need to allow to break through, and those walls are staying. Maybe in her mind even for Wille´s own good, to teach him how it´s done.

And there´s certainly reasons for those walls and it´s probably part self-protection and probably people telling her from a young age she needs to have them, and probably also because she´s a woman on the throne, so people would probably insist a little extra on them. .

The most honest and raw I´ve seen her in the show is the moment she throws up.

(I usually question what she´s saying to Wille or August, no matter what warm or soft tone she´s using about what the court allegedly wants her to do, how it´s not really her, and how she actually supports Wille etc, as she´s been proven to manipulate Wille (and August in S2) into doing what she thinks is best for the institution she´s the head of. The one whose survival is always the priority, as per her own words.)

She´s shown to do royal business in what looks like pyjamas after all, the most casual and private of clothes, telling us there´s no separation, ever, that she´s always the queen. She rolls her eyes at her son after ending a phone call in which a rattled Wille sits among shards of glass negotiating with her (!), after she wanted to forcibly remove him from school. She doesn´t ever truly seem torn or conflicted, except that one time she throws up.

When her emotional core literally breaks its way out of her against her will.

No wonder she completely underestimates Wille and the depth and power for change his emotions hold after he´s finally allowed some therapy (that he could have used long ago just for growing up in that institution) and experienced actual emotional growth and healing instead of using it for control like she probably has. No wonder she and the court collectively underestimate Simon and what his love, what their love and connection mean to Wille. (Looking at you, Jan-Olof, allowing Wille a moment with Simon, you fool!) It´s simply been too long behind those impenetrable walls that she can´t even see it anymore. Until her son shows her. And you wonder if he´s even breaking through to her, or if she´s just been confirmed in her fears about his emotional unruliness and will dig in deeper inside her fortress. (Another time if feels like we see some honest emotion from her is of course in S1 when she´s visibly angry as she says that nobody ever chooses the royal life, so maybe Wille can relay Boris´ message about choosing how to live your life to her? Maybe she´s not beyond Boris´ wisdom. Anyway.)

The show shines such an unforgiving light on that institution that chokes all feelings and individual freedom out of you, especially over such a long time as with the queen, but I love love love how hopeful and defiant Wille´s journey of deliberate progress is in the face of it.

And I do hope he´ll continue therapy and never allows his own walls back up once they´re down.

[youngroyals3456]

I actually find it so funny that after trying so hard to get over Wille and avoiding him at all costs in season 2, the second Wille says that Simon doesn’t love him anymore, Simon literally ditches his date to run after Wille just to tell him he’s wrong. Like, babes, that’s the exact opposite of what someone who’s supposedly trying to get over their ex does.

[daylightaftertherain]

made another low quality character alignment chart after a while xoxo

[heartbreakprincewille]

It's so interesting to me that we were supposed to like Marcus, and like Rojda said, she thought that people will be like Team Marcus or something and how it went completely opposite.

I think I completely agree with what they said, that people had stages with Marcus's character, it was supposed to be like that- we were supposed to like him in the beginning, then see things go downhill with him until he's just not a character to root for anymore.

Which I agree, usually the third person introduced to the audience in a love triangle is made to be this "perfect" person the audience is supposed to root for(to create a dilemma for the audience and the main couple as well). But I actually appreciate them for differentiating Marcus from a "perfect person" overall to "perfect for Simon", because there is a huge difference between those two terms. On the surface, he is perfect for Simon, but he is not a "perfect" person overall- which, nobody is, it all depends on how we perceive people.

Also, I have this sort of confession to make that I did not catch Marcus's manipulative behaviour until the fandom pointed it out. Yes, I didn't. It's not like I liked him or even had sympathy for him in the end, I just didn't realize that his subtle behaviours are creepy or manipulative. I actually liked Marcus until Ep 2(in a way that it was nice to see Simon explore his horizons and not be surrounded by Wille's hurt for a while), I felt kind of icky but couldn't point out what it was in Ep 3, and then he just went downhill after that for me. Maybe I'm not that experienced with people and relationships or I was just determined to see the best in him after reading so many pre-conceived notions about him before S2 dropped, but I actually didn't see it. But now everyone pointed it out, I do see it. And I'm so grateful for everyone who recognised it because it was actually very subtle, how they did Marcus's flaws.

But another confession: I don't dislike Marcus. Yeah, I don't love him either, but "love" or "hate" are not the only binary emotions we can feel for a character. I'm just indifferent towards him(mainly because we have no idea about him as a person so yeah). He served a purpose in the storyline, kind of felt unnecessary at times but I do understand the point of bringing him into the mix.

[raincitygirl76]

Reblogging again for addition by @domtheforestgnome

The contrast on the loneliness Simon and Wille experience during s1e6

One thing I really loved about the way s1 wraps up is exactly the stark contrast between the loneliness Simon and Wille experience after everything blows out of proportion. In this post, I'll delve a bit on what aspects of their loneliness really differ and how fascinating – although utterly tragic – that is.

Spoiler ahead!

Simon

Simon is left alone to deal with the scrutiny and harrassment from the leaked video after Wille not only denies being in it but also affirms he's not emotionally involved with anyone. Simon feels his world crumble down when he finds out through Ayub about the prince’s statement.

It comes as a bullet through his heart because up until that very moment, he had believed Wille wholeheartedly. Wille had said time and time again that he wouldn't say what his mom wanted him to say, that they would face it together, and still. Simon had learned that he was thrown alone to the wolves through his friend and not from Wille himself. Simon feels betrayed by the boy he loves and decides to distance himself from him because he simply can't trust Wille not to hurt him anymore.

Simon is all alone to deal with the exposure of their intimacy, but at very least, he has friends and his mom to support him at home — although the person who mattered the most is missing.

Wille

Wille finds safety and protection in denying any involvement with Simon in that video and also basks in the crown's PR management to keep the rumors about him at bay. However, Wille feels extremely lonely in this small secured space he made for himself. He doesn't have friends to comfort him, his beloved brother is dead, his mother only cares about the family's reputation and his cousin is to blame for all of this. And, on top of that, he lost the boy he loves the moment he betrayed his trust, the moment he acted like a prince and not like someone who cares about Simon.

The scene with Wille hanging up on his mom showcases this perfectly. There's a background chilling music as he talks to her, revealing how anxious and distressed he is about finding out it was August who ruined his life. And when his own mother reveals she had known it for days — inadvertently telling us that he could have done things differently if he had known too, that he could have tried being himself for once, that he didn't have to break his word to Simon — he hangs up on her and everything is silent.

Everything is quiet and Wille is alone in the school yard, small and fragile and all by himself.

(Also props to that one lone tear rolling down, really made this scene hurt that much more)

He has literally no one to turn to, not even Simon because he lost him the moment he denied having any emotional bond with him. And because of what? Because his mom said it would be worse if he didn't? The same mom that knew it should be August suffering and taking the blame in his place but decided that it was easier to deny Wille his happiness, claiming it was all a sick way to honor his dead brother?

At the very last scene of the episode, Wille hugs Simon close and apologizes to him. He says he's sorry because he knows he hurt him for nothing. He's sorry because they lost this precious thing they were nurturing together because Wille was scared and did what was best for his mother and not for them.

In that moment Wille had just removed August from his family and he just realized he couldn't trust his mother either.

Simon & Wille

He says he loves Simon, and Simon can't say it back because, in the end, it doesn't matter. Simon was left alone to fend for himself. Wille claiming he loves him won't change that fact. He can't love someone who will leave him the moment push comes to shove.

And, in the very end, Simon is once again walking alone in between all the students that recognizes him from the sex-tape with the prince that denies any involvement with him — although he has his sister by his side, supporting him through it at the moment. Meanwhile, Wille is safely seated inside his ride. There's no prying eyes around him, no distress from being judged by others. He is, however, completely alone in this small box of steel, no one to care for him for who he is.

And the worst part of it all is that he put himself there.

In conclusion, I love how painful it is to watch the way they distance themselves from each other. They both feel terribly lonely, in ways and proportions the other can't even begin to grasp, but both equally harshly. I didn't make this post to try and point out who suffered more in this whole scandal, they both suffered greatly and there's denying that. And it all makes it all the more interesting to watch the way they clash and beat their heads during s2, clumsily finding their way into understanding the other's perspective and realizing that August's revenge porn and everything that came after that doesn't define them.

Wille can right his wrongs. Simon can attempt to trust Wille again. But that shall be an analysis to another post.

[3rdsleeper]

rewatching young royals s1 like ooooooh wille has a crush. meanwhile simon is fighting for his to life to compete with the richest kids in the country and protect his sister and making deals with his abusive father and dealing drugs to pay for tutoring and having a sex tape recorded and released without his knowledge and his sister seems fine with it and also having a crush on possibly the most inconvenient person to have a crush on and then having to break up with them because he’ll choose his family over him. and it only gets worse for him in season two.

[sillyunicorn]

Wille got game

wille: you'd be a better leader than august vincent: [flustered]

[kandicon]

One of these days I'll write that 100k Cozy Glow/Flurry Heart slow burn fic that plagues my brain

[misfithive]

Marcus and Nice Guy Syndrome ™️

I think what bothers me most about marcus is that he is the kind of “nice guy” that claims they are a “nice guy”. But really they are only “nice” if you are showing interest in them and then the second you aren’t they turn into the most spiteful cruel person. The kind of “nice guy” who thinks that because they are “nice” you owe them some kind of attention or affection or a relationship. Like thank u for being nice, thats the bare minimum. There is more to wanting to be with someone than that. And then when u dont wanna be with them its like “see this is why you get treated like shit. U choose horrible guys who treat u bad when i’m right here and u dont appreciate me”. Hmm suddenly u aren’t sounding so nice anymore.

It’s interesting bc a lot if women experience this and i always kind of thought it was some level of misogyny or something? Idk. But to see the same thing play out in Marcus and Simon’s dynamic was just so familiar to me. And it actually kind of bothers me that when the cast talks about it (besides Omar) they are like oh Marcus is so nice whats not to love about Marcus. And its like kind of meta or something that they are even replicating this expectation in a way. That bc someone is seemingly nice (even tho we saw how thinly veiled that niceness was) u should love them. Like all Marcus had going for him was being supposedly “nice” compared with Simon who Wille have a deep bond, trust, intimacy, +compassion for one another. Being simply “nice” does not compete.