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venusintheblindspots-blog · 1 year ago

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The Maiden, the Mother and the Crone: a study on Nettles

Nettles, the Maiden

In ASOIAF, the maiden represents innocence and chasity. Now, like all the other faces of the faith of the seven, the maiden is represented through various characters, with one of them being Nettles. With her upbringing being unknown, all that is known about Nettles’ childhood and sexual experience are speculations made based on her class, race and gender. She is not granted the privilege of innocence the noble women in Westeros are given.

Despite the authors of fire and blood, and the people in-universe accusing her of promiscuity, Nettles’ connection to the maiden has almost nothing to do with sex, but is rather an exploration of the war amongst the noble houses of Westeros, and the fault of legitimacy as it pertains to Targaryens.

The Claiming of Sheepstealer

According to the accounts in Fire and Blood, Nettles claims the wild-dragon Sheepstealer by feeding him freshly slaughtered sheep everyday until he came to accept her as his mount. In various cultures, religions and art pieces, sheep are used to represent innocence and purity. Sheep are also generally defenseless against harm, and are likely to die from panic if even frightened.

How this relates to Nettles and the maiden:

The account of the events we get in ASOIAF, always comes from nobility. We do not get the POV of anyone of low birth, but, we don’t need their POV to know that the smallfolk are always at the mercy of the people that rule over them. They are always the first and largest casualties in wars that are usually insignificant to them and their well-being. Nettles being of low birth means that she’s lived most of her life unprotected, and at risk of being a means to ends for the schemes of a lord or lady, or even a prince. Nettles being of low birth means that she’s a sheep in a realm ruled by dragons.

By becoming the rider of Sheepstealer, Nettles becomes exposed to life of the nobility in Westeros, in the most devastating way, war.

Nettles, the Mother

Motherhood in Westeros

The loss of innocence for the women of ASOIAF is usually synonymous with the loss of their virginity. Sex isn’t typically done for their pleasure, but rather the fulfilling of their marital duties by providing their husbands with an heir. Their value as women is based on their fertility, so a child sired in marriage is often the sole form of agency and protection women in Westeros get.

GRRM frequently uses metaphors to explore the loss of innocence, like Jaime being cut by Ser Arthur Dayne during his knighting, or Jaime witnessing the death of Brandon and Rickard Stark, or Sansa experiencing her first period, etc. For Nettles, her loss of innocence is written in a way that parallels the optics of motherhood in Westeros.

When Nettles claimed Sheepstealer, she was granted individuality. She is no longer a mere sheep in the field, she has an identity, the Unlikely Dragon-Rider. She is granted protection and value, much like the wives of the lords of Westeros are given, after providing their husbands with a son. When Rhaenyra calls for her head, Lord Mooton, Ser Florian, and Maester Norren all saw it as an unjustly request. If she hadn’t claimed Sheepstealer, if she still remained as a nameless, baseborn girl, she would’ve been killed, swiftly.

Nettles, the Crone

The Dance of the Dragons was the most deadly war fought in Westeros, as it was headlined by dragon-riders. Most of the participants wound up dead by the end of it, with their cause lost in grief. There are many events that led to the dance of the dragons, but at its core, it was a war fought over the legitimacy of House Targaryen. Nettles is one of the few people who survived it, and her dragon is one of the last to be seen or heard of before Daenerys Targaryen’s hatching of Rhaegal, Viserion and Drogon.

Masculinity and Legitimacy in Westeros

The conquest of Westeros by Aegon and his two sister-wives, Rhaenys and Visenya, was only possible with the dragons of Old Valyria. The legitimacy of the Targaryen dynasty relies on blood quantum,i.e.,having the blood of the dragon, and being able to ride one. All the Targaryen kings, from Aegon, straight down to Viserys, were dragon riders, and that played a part in their kingship.

Kings in Westeros are the ultimate male figures, followed by knights, maesters and lords. Looking at these archetypes and their specific roles,- kings and lords protect the realm, knights defend the innocent, maesters share their wisdom with youth-, Nettles fulfills all of them during the Dance.

The Black Ram

After the Dance, Nettles is worshipped as a fire witch by the mountain clans of the Vale. According to the accounts in fire and blood, the youths would bring her gifts and return as men with burns to show that they faced the dragon woman in her lair. Nettles in this instance is being used as a rite of passage and symbol of the loss of innocence, as well as wisdom, paralleling the relationship between her and Sheepstealer.

Through Sheepstealer she becomes a warrior and a protector of the realm, and she defends Rhaenyra’s claim like any knight would. Who best to act as a rite of passage but the woman who has played in every archetype they aspire to be?

Before her departure from Maidenpool, and one her last recorded appearances, Nettles feeds her dragon Sheepstealer, a black ram. She’d slit its throat herself, and the animal’s blood was said to have stained her leather clothing. The black ram is often associated with wisdom, discernment, sacrifice and guidance. In most cultures, it represents different gods and goddesses of war, fertility and royalty. She started her story as an innocent sheep, ignorant of the spoils of war, and ends as the black ram, the epitome of wisdom.

And to close: Nettles isn’t confirmed to be of royal blood, but she is embodiment of House Targaryen’s ideology of being gods amongst men.

#nettles f&b #asoiaf nettles #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #nettles #nettles asoiaf #nettles and sheepstealer

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darklinaforever · 2 years ago

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NETTLES AND DAEMON RELATIONSHIP !

This article is both based on my personal opinions and also those of :

- arabian-bloodstream

- theroguedragon3

- horizon-verizon

- the-king-andthe-lionheart

From which I took the liberty of taking certain things, simply because it summarizes very well what i thought.

Here, I am about to dismantle all the things seen in a romantic way in the relationship of Nettles and Daemon ! Hope you enjoy and share my opinion, and be polite if you ever want to give your opinion / add something ! (Warning, you are free to like whatever you want. If you think Nettles and Daemon is a sexual and romantic relationship and you like it, great, but then this article is not for you)

Good reading !

1) Mushroom said it ! (And Glyadyn supports his version !)

Lol, that's really persuasive.

Mushroom is literally the most unreliable source out there, precisely because it tends to make everything salacious, or prefer sordid stories.

Yes, the fictional writer of the book gives credence to Mushroom's version here, but it should not be forgotten that Glyadyn did not attend the events recounted, making up his mind only through biased texts, and above all, the dude is a pure product of his time, misogynist with his own prejudices that would inevitably lead him to believe that Nettles and Daemon were lovers, even if, as he himself says, there is no real proof of that.

Not to mention that he also gave credit to Laenor being killed by Daemon, when there's no evidence for that either, and the very idea is frankly stupid if you look at it. (I did an article on this, as many others have looked into the matter)

There are also other credible claims from Mushroom, which were ignored by Glyadyn. Like Rhaenyra being already pregnant with Daemon at the time of the wedding, or Corlys being Addam and Aryn's biological father. The author doesn't offer an opinion on these things, much less a positive / valid opinion, and that doesn't preclude them from being the most likely facts.

2) There are four / five sources that suggest Daemon and Nettles were lovers !

There are admittedly, about four / five "sources", which suggest / say that Daemon and Nettles were lovers. Except that it must be remembered that these sources are all based on the first, namely that of Mushroom, and that the vast majority of accounts were biased against Rhaenyra, and wanted to portray her and her camp negatively. And if a supposedly "legitimate" source such as Rhaenyra's Court Mushroom claimed that Nettles was Daemon's lover, well, that was surely true. Is not it ? After all, given Daemon's (previous, but tenacious) reputation, it would fit rather well (long live prejudices...), it doesn't matter that Mushroom, the first to have suggested this love affair between Nettles and Daemon, has always predominantly gendered the stories he told, in addition to favoring the most sordid tales. Surely, their affair must be true! And so other accounts followed suit. After all, when you hear something repeated over and over again, it catches on (especially if it's crisp, in a society full of misogyny and prejudice). However, that doesn't make it true, it just makes it a story told often enough for it to become true.

3) Daemon taught Nettles how to stand, eat, style, dress and wash properly !

So, personally, I find that it really resembles the behavior of an educator / mentor, or even, one could say, outright paternalistic, since the role of mentor is often associated with the father in fiction. And that's good, since Maester Norren, who actually witnessed the interactions of the two dragon riders, describes Daemon being crazy about Nettles as a father would be about his daughter / girl.

4) Daemon and Nettles had adjourned rooms, and they ate breakfast and dinner together !

Yes. So what ? For the chambers, it just shows that Daemon particularly loved Nettles, enough to keep her close to him. Which makes sense, if he did indeed take on a fatherly affection / mentorship for her, taking her under his wing as a result. So there's nothing particularly weird / wacky about Daemon keeping her close. At least, if he was the one who asked their guests for adjoining rooms in the first place. One thing we can't be sure of. Indeed, we were able to give them to them as soon as they arrived. Not to mention that, if it was Daemon who claimed the adjoining rooms, he could very well have done so because he and Nettles didn't know anyone else in Harrenhal, wanting to keep closeness for comfort, as well (mainly) as a certain feeling / assurance of security. Because yes, I remember that they were in time of war, or it was good / wise to be wary of everyone. That the only two riders present make sure to stay as close as possible to plan for any eventuality, makes sense. (I personally vote for this last option)

As for breakfast and shared dinner, it's all the same. They, again, very well could have done it out of the comfort of not knowing anyone else. That, or so, is something that came later in their relationship, after he actually took her under his wing. Which I think makes the most sense, because it's impossible to think that Nettles and Daemon never had dinner with the Lord of Harrenhal. Also, Nettles was Daemon's partner in the active pursuit of Aemond and Vaghar, thus leading the two to spend their days together with their dragons, hence the closeness and deepening of their relationship. So it also makes sense that they end up having dinner and breakfast together in this context, especially if Daemon has come to adore him like a father to his daughter/girl. It's a fairly standard situation for two people who must coexist / spend their time with each other, and end up appreciating / loving (platonically) each other.

None of this is inherently romantic or sexual.

5) Daemon gave gifts to Nettles ! / It's like when he gave gifts to Rhaenyra ! / Daemon is only shown giving gifts to Rhaenyra and Nettles !

First of all, I would like to point out that there are nevertheless various and varied reasons for giving gifts to someone, and that Fire and Blood is a biased history book, not a novel that will allow us to see the detailed life of the characters. So you would have me believe, on the pretext that it wasn't explicitly named in the book, that Daemon never gave gifts to Laena or his own daughters and sons? That only Rhaenyra and Nettles ever got gifts from her ? (Do you realize how ridiculous this probability is ?)

Then, the gifts of Daemon to Nettles and those offered to Rhaenyra, have in fact nothing to do.

Here are Rhaenyra's gifts named (although it is known that she received others from Daemon during her youth), are : Pearls, silk, books, and a jade diadem believed to have belonged to Empress of Leng.

As for Nettles' gifts (the only ones we know of), they are : An ivory-handled hairbrush, a silver mirror, a rich brown velvet coat lined with satin, and a pair of boots riding shoes in butter-soft leather.

Rhaenyra's gifts are exuberant, sometimes even useless, - pearls, silk - very much like gifts one would give purely and simply to please, - books - even to woo someone - jade diadem. It is important to remember that by the time Rhaenyra received these gifts, well she had indeed reached marriageable age. Not only did Daemon give Rhaenyra gifts, but they also did a lot of activities together. Such as dinner, so far nothing suspicious you might say, but he also sailed with her, hunted with her ; entertained her by making fun of the Greens, characterized as suckers, flattering Queen Alicent and her children. He also read poetry to her and praised her beauty, declaring her to be the most beautiful woman in all the Seven Kingdoms and they also began flying together almost daily, racing Syrax against Caraxes to Dragonstone back and forth. In itself, a classic behavior of courtship for the feudal era which inspired GRRM.

As for Nettles, besides the obvious preciousness of the gifts, the fact that Daemon is a prince, notice how practical they seem above all else ? (besides the fact that Dameon is never named as doing tons of fun stuff with Nettles as with Rhaenyra)

From what we know of Nettles, she was a wildling who had nothing, and whom Daemon taught manners, such as how to dress, sit, brush her hair, and wash herself. The gifts he gave her seem to fit perfectly into this framework.

He taught her how to do her hair and dress properly ? Brush, mirror, coat and boots.

Things, again, above all practical and related to what he taught him (so when he was in a mentoring role), which undeniably could help improve Nettles' life, which began, remember, and mostly took place in poverty.

We therefore absolutely cannot say that Daemon would have spoiled Nettles, as he would have spoiled Rhaenyra. Nor even that the gifts he gave her have a fundamentally romantic aspect.

6) Daemon took baths with Nettles !

Yes, it's true. Except this aspect isn't portrayed in a sexual/salacious or romantic sense, or even with insinuations of that kind of relationship between the two. That is to say that the baths are therefore not described here by Mushroom, or by Maester Eustace. (Two unreliable sources, often questioned) The baths are actually reported by Maester Norren, who describes the relationship of the two riders as paternalistic, in a context where Daemon actually taught Nettles how to bathe properly.

Also, we have no idea of the actual frequencies of their bathing together. The maids are the ones who said Daemon "often" shared a tub with Nettles, which could actually be both everything and nothing. "Often" does not mean "always". So there are cases where Daemon didn't take a bath with Nettles.

In such a context, where the information is reported by servants, we must therefore ask ourselves what "often" exactly means here. Was it really a daily thing, as some like to think ? Or did it only happen once, twice, or even three times ?

That would be more than enough for Nettles to learn how to clean himself, but it would only take one time for the rumors to spread. The sight would be alarming for women and girls who have learned not to be too close to noble / royal men, for fear, precisely, of attracting the attention of bad lords (like Aegon II, notorious rapist for example). Not to mention that the work of servants / maids in castles is particularly monotonous and difficult. So, what better subject of conversation and pleasure than a prince having a close relationship with a girl of low birth ? The servants wouldn't talk / gossip / or exaggerate the subject ? (Answer : Of course they would. It's inevitable)

Also, let's keep in mind that it is very rare for an individual to find himself sexually attracted to a person whom he has personally taught to wash properly / have a proper personal hygiene - lifestyle.

I am now going to present to you a specific example of fantasy, showing two characters, a man and a woman, sharing a bath together in a purely platonic way. These are the characters of Moiraine and Lan in the series "The Wheel of Time" in episode 1. Moiraine is an aes sedai, and Lan is her champion. The two share a magical bond said to be stronger than between parents/children, brothers/sisters, husbands/wives, lovers, friends, etc. It is a link beyond all others. So, you surely/probably think that sex (just like me at first) is not involved in such type of relationship. Nevertheless, it is proven in the series that sexual attraction and intercourse can exist between aes sedai and their champions. Proof of this is that Alanna, an aes sedai, practices threesomes with her two champions, Maksim and Ihvon, the latter forming a relationship based on respect and mutual love. To return to the shared bath of Moiraine and Lan, it should be noted that the latter is bisexual. Indeed, she is currently in love with another aes sedai named Siuan, and in the books Moiraine ends up married to Thom. As for Lan, the latter seems to be straight, and will end up falling in love with a woman named Nynaeve. Lan and Moiraine have no particular excuse for taking a bath together, and given their attitude, it's certainly not the first time they've done it. They could also very well have washed one after the other, because Moiraine can literally heat the water, thanks to her magic. Besides, if we had to characterize the relationship of Moiraine and Lan, it would be quite filial, like a brother and a sister. However, see that it did not prevent them from taking baths together.

Once again, it's important, not everyone has the same type of modesty, or the same notion of nudity. I have always said it, and will always support it, nudity does not equal sex. Daemon being, we know, an unconventional man, and Nettles, a girl who has essentially always lived on the streets, I doubt that the two of them necessarily associate nudity with sex as a result.

7) Daemon may or may not have shared a bed with Nettles !

First, why maybe ?

Because there is doubt about it, especially because of these dialogues :

“This thing is easily done,” said the captain of his guard. “The prince sleeps beside her, but he has grown old. Three men should be enough to subdue him should he try to interfere, but I will take six to be certain. Does my lord wish this done tonight ?”

“Six men or sixty, he is still Daemon Targaryen,” Lord Mooton’s brother objected. “A sleeping draft in his evening wine would be the wiser course. Let him wake to find her dead.”

“The queen has forbidden any harm to come to him,” Lord Mooton reminded them, “and murdering two guests in their beds is twice as foul as murdering one. I should be doubly cursed.”

Already, it is important to specify that the language and the formulation used by the author does not make it possible to be certain of anything. The guard, for example, doesn't say that Daemon sleeps "with" Nettles, but "beside her", which admittedly may suggest that they actually sleep together, but which could also simply refer to the adjoining rooms. that they share. The "Let him wake up to find her dead" quote is also not a fundamental indication that he is sleeping with Nettles. Whether or not Daemon sleeps with her, if she is killed, well he will indeed awaken to find her dead. Let's not forget either "their beds" in the plural, used by the lord of Harrenhal which would indicate that Nettles and Daemon actually sleep separately, but which could just as well be a simple expression.

It's also possible, out of sheer prejudice against Daemon's close relationship with Nettles, that the captain of the guard, and others, possibly even the Lord of Harrenhal himself, think that they sleep in the same bed. This could precisely result from the affair of the baths in particular.

However, some argue that it is impossible for Daemon not to sleep with Nettles, as the lord and the guards are afraid to attack her and have to face Daemon's wrath as they try to pass. to action, are; let him intervene. So the only explanation for such fear would be that Daemon would sleep directly in Nettles' bed, or she in his, of which they would be absolutely sure. And yes, I agree, it is quite plausible.

Moreover, we are still sure of people who think that sixty men facing a 49-year-old Daemon Targaryen barely emerging from his sleep, it is not a safe bet. A bit exaggerated anyway you will tell me, especially when you take into account the fact that Daemon is no longer very young. So, would it be so crazy that they were afraid to attack Nettles, even though Daemon was in the next room? Because yes, therefore he sleeps well next to her. I remind you that Daemon is literally the best warrior of his time, therefore he would surely be able to wake up to the slightest possibly suspicious noise, even from those that would emanate from Nettles' room. Especially since their rooms are only separated by a door. So imagine if this one had the misfortune to be open !

So, no, the conversation between the Lord of Harrenhal, his people, and the guards doesn't give any certainty about whether or not Nettles and Daemon share a bed. It seems that the author wanted to play with our nerves to the end and blur even this simple conversation, that is to say...

Now, I see you coming, even if Daemon and Nettles shared a bed, that wouldn't mean that they would have slept together, or had a romantic relationship. Truly. It's not a formal indication. Especially, once again, if we take into account the fact that we are in a medieval setting. Context is very important.

Here, Nettles and Daemon are far from anyone they know, and they're in a stone castle with probably some drafts. What weather is it ? Is it cold ? At the time, castles could be very cold, especially since there was no heating. In fact, it was common to sleep in the same bed as others to stay warm, but also simply for company. We see this in the same universe as Fire and Blood for the ASOIAF saga, starring Margaery Tyrell. She has many companions, with whom she shares her bed every night. They do this for warmth, companionship, but also to make sure the lady they serve is "chaste" and not entertaining men in her bed. Now, I grant you, Daemon is a man, so it's not really the same thing. But we must remember that Nettles and Daemon are once again alone with each other. They do not have their own household with them or other companions. So whether or not they might have shared a bed, it certainly could have been completely innocent, with the two wanting/seeking companionship and warmth.

We also need to consider the possibility that they were simply vigilant and proactive. If they shared a bed, they may have done so because one or both of them felt unsafe. Which is, once again, quite logical during a war. It is not so difficult for them to think that we would seek to target them, as dragon riders, in a situation where they are not precisely close to their dragons, therefore in a more vulnerable context, like in their rooms, at rest, for example. It's quite logical.

Not to mention that we have no idea of the size of the beds in Harrenhal, which also changes the context. And I tend to think that their beds were anything but small and cramped forcing them to be stuck tight together.

8) Daemon is said to have harmed the people of Harrenhal if they touched Nettles !

Yes. And ? Is this supposed to be proof of ultimate romance ? If Daemon has come to love Nettles platonically / paternally, it makes just as much sense that his wrath would descend on Harrenhal if ever harm was done to him.

Question : If you found out that someone you platonically love had been killed, and you had a dragon at your disposal that obeyed you... what would you do? Eh ? Don't tell me you wouldn't want to use it to punish the murderers in question. (especially in a world where no consequences will fall on you)

9) All joy leaves Daemon's eyes as he reads Nettles' execution letter, by Rhaenyra !

You know, here Daemon might as well get sad because the girl he took under his wing and formed a strong and close bond with, is accused of treason and ordered executed for something she did not commit, by his wife / queen whom he loves and who in passing questions his own loyalty and fidelity, when he is also innocent.

10) The Persian cry of Caraxes !

When Daemon watches Nettles leave, after the latter has sent him away to save her from Rhaenyra's execution order, Caraxes roars and smashes all the windows of Jonquil Tower. Clearly, Caraxes' roar is a reaction to Daemon's feelings at the time, which he remains stoic, not moving or saying a word. But then again, that's not fundamental evidence of a romance between them either. Doubt is always allowed. If Daemon developed a deep platonic bond with Nettles, coming to regard her as one of his daughters, knowing that he had been away from his own children for an extremely long time, and with whom he had always lived, well, he makes sense that Caraxes would express Daemon's pain so viscerally at seeing Nettles leave. Imagine the pain of losing a child again. Because yes, at this point Daemon has lost not only his unborn daughter, his stepsons, and he believes his second biological son, being estranged for a long time from the rest of his children. Again, Daemon found himself in a situation where it was totally and easily possible for him to quickly go crazy for Nettles like a man would for his daughter. This option, posed by the author himself, is not improbable. Not only that, but imagine having to part ways (essentially forever) with that girl you now call yours, because your wife/queen whom you love dearly basically accuses you of infidelity with her, while you you're both innocent. Inevitably, strong emotions levels, it must go. Also, at the time Daemon watches Nettles leave, we don't know what's going on in his head, or even what he was thinking/feeling precisely at that moment. To claim otherwise is a mistake. If that is it is a mixture of several thoughts and emotions which crossed it and finally made crack Caraxes at this time there. In sum, the departure of Nettles would have been only the ultimate breaking point to other painful events experienced by Daemon. So it's not necessarily romantic either. Some argue that it is, since the tower whose windows Caraxes broke bears the name "Jonquil", a girl known in the ASOIAF universe to have had a great romance, and who aptly gives her name to the round. However, the tower itself is not a symbol of love. People were literally locked up there as prisoners. The symbol of love, in relation to Jonquil, is the swimming pool where she and her lover first met. Not the tower then.

11) Daemon affectionately called Nettles ; Nettie.

So... sorry to break your dreams, but that sounds a lot like the nickname a parent would give their child, not the nickname a man would give his lover.

12) This is a clear and voluntary parallel of the Jaime and Brienne relationship !

George confirmed that he did not draw any parallels, at least intentionally, between the characters of Fire and Blood and those of his main saga, because he wanted to avoid repeating himself.

13) Large age differences are common in feudal times !

Certainly. But GRRM has never romantically or positively portrayed relationships with such a wide age gap as Nettles and Daemon. Just compare this to the relationships of Jorah & Dany, and Jon Arryn & Lysa Tully to realize this. They have absolutely nothing positive, let alone romantic. In fact, one can strongly question the so-called undeniable romantic aspect of the Nettles and Daemon relationship. But we can even doubt the negative aspect, which some try to stick to Daemon through the terms "abuse" and "grooming", for the relationship of the two dragon riders. Already, simply because of the feudal context, but also because Daemon is supposed to be a morally gray character, and not a villain, in addition to being the author's favorite. So are we supposed to believe that GRRM's favorite character, the ultimate gray character in this story, essentially a Byronic hero archetype, also the older of the two individuals, is going to have this type of negative / unhealthy relationship ?!

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lovelipton · 1 year ago

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Chapter 4

Smut warning: Masterbat!on.

It seemed a betrayal to imagine her. It was an unfair thing to lust for.

He grabbed the oil jug from atop his fire place, taking it to his night stand, coating his fingers as he sat down, trying to conjure up any other image.

The blood orange smell had lingered on him, adding to the difficulty of the situation. The tallow oil smelled like her hair. Perhaps he should ask a maid, at least one would be willing. The thought back to their lingering touches and wanting stares during his bath, pretty girls, older than his companion, their pale hands gliding over him with a wet cloth, how his hand slid down the girls back, how the smell could take him back if he gave in.

He stopped himself, mindlessly grabbing his neglected cock with the oiled hand, trying his best ignore his thoughts. He slid his hand, in the same memorized way from his youth and tried his best to be quick.

He thought about his wife, the salt air the first time he had her, a time where it was need and not want, the feeling of her thigh against his hand, her mouth on his. When she was younger, all those years ago in the brothel.

His hand picked up speed, he felt himself building to the needed climax. His head arched back, lost in older memory. He stroked his tip, grunting with his dependence on the budding release.

The stench of stale ale in the air, the mindless interlocked bodies her eyes pulled to. Nettles eyes would pull like that to any new thing shown to her, the ale was polluted with the stale wine.

If he stopped now he wouldn’t finish, he was a man lost to his urges. His mind flashed to her, half dressed, undressed, licking her lips, laughing and looking up at him, mouth ajar for what ever reason. It felt wrong to imagine, he tried to think to anything else but a memory of her would cloud his mind and judgement for what was right. All he knew was what he needed to do. He was almost there.

He grunted with each stroke, on the brink of his anticipation paying off. He heard the knock at the door and couldn’t answer. He leaned into himself, tugging away mindlessly. The oranges danced with his building sweat. A coating covered him as he drew near than he had been in months, her round breast, revealed itself from her raven coils, he could taste his peak.

He could hear her calling his name, through their door, he didn’t know if he was half conjuring it.

“Daemon?”

His peak came with the swing of their door, a curious call of his name and a strained grunt at her intrusion.

“Sorry, Your Grace.”

Ever quick, she recognized his state, wide eyed to be sure with a quick apology and pulling the door back shut, he was past the point where he could stop himself. He dropped his cock as it spurted over the floor, the immediate guilt and relief flooding him together.

He placed his hands at either side of him, nearly delirious with the relief of his expectation, he steadied himself and recognized where he was, what he had done to get there, almost angered by the new clarity.

He could apologize to her to her enough to justify it, he had to apologize to her now for what happened. The door wasn’t locked on his insistence to his side, he should’ve spoken to send her away. He felt no control over it all, a deep desire settled in his soul over it.

He stood up hazily and got dressed, wiping the sweat off his skin and rinsing away all the musk that had developed in its arrival. He knocked the door of and searched her room to find it empty and unmade. He closed the door and made his way to breakfast through his room, he had no desire to see the state he left his in.

He felt hollow as he made his way to the dinning area, unwilling to face the myriad of emotions he could anticipate from her, he doubted he would look less that guilty at her, her face changing into something more desired now.

He walked in on her, in deep conversation with Maester Norren and Lord Mooton, she’s the first to recognize him in the room.

She stands as he would expect, a glimpse of shyness lingered in her expression, avoiding his eyes entirely, preserving her serious expression as the others join her greeting. He made his way at her side. They all sat together, going into a less intense version of the previous conversation , she refused to meet his eyes.

“You should ask him now that he’s here. Perhaps you’ll listen to him.”

She was never impolite, if she was angry her tone would say but she simply sounded flustered, with the same restrained anger she met him with more often than not.

“What is your request my Lord?” He stared at the fat country Lord, seemingly caught up in the throws of the previous conversation. He looked towards the girl, who focused intently on the porridge in front of her, idling herself by playing with it, breathing deeply to calm herself.

He wondered if she had cared about what she saw, if his worry would even matter after he heard what the Lord said, it didn’t seem to impact her day as much as he had.

“I’m simply curious about the possibility of you both splitting up, to find Vhagar and cover the Riverlands with your protection.”

He could feel his anger rise with the closing of the statement, seeing why there was need for the argument in the first place.

Did he think they sat on dragon back each day to waste time?

That they simply enjoyed the others reactions to the piles of bodies they’d stack every other week?

He felt Nettles heat leave her as he restated what seemed to be the same conversation to him. She was as anxious as she was angry.

The girl couldn’t sleep for so long, at least having someone near her, making sure she would was a comfort. He doubted whether she would eat alone or take care of her self without his insistence. She drank herself to peace just the last night.

His grand plan never made her a causality, he recalled. She’d always go back to Rhaenyra’s side as he went after Vhagar. Even as a suggestion the girl was in danger by herself against Vhagar. No one dragon could stand alone against her.

He gripped the knife in his hand tightly, trying his best to rationalize his anger before he spoke. Did he think the girl was here in jest for company alone?

He felt a warm thing grab his thigh, shifting his demeanor to confusion , he looked down then up at her, a weary expression trying to reassure him, in some small attempt to quell a dragon’s tendency. He could feel himself calm, wondering if she used the same method on Sheepstealer before.

He turned back to the scared Lord, resting the knife down before he responded.

“It would be a useless feat, no dragon alone would stand against Vhagar, even I need someone at my side to make sure I return. Her grace is very adamant on that front.”

She moved her hand back to herself and he felt the warmth leave him, almost hostile in its departure. Her food busied her as the conversation continued, over breakfast, entailing small notes about the following steps towards a quicker end to his nephew.

He checked on her throughout the conversation, sometimes justifying it by making sure she took note of certain places, other times to ensure her presence, just to gage her reaction. By the time they were done he was sure he had paid her more attention, against his better judgment.

“We will leave you both to discuss further, Your Grace.” The Maester stated before departing behind his Lord, it couldn’t have been after nine when he and Netty were finally left alone.

She was wearing a Targaryen red dress, truly made for court, she found a way to make it look like an appropriate dress for the occasion, it dipped low like a King’s Landing style he noted before turning away with he thought, entirely.

“Did you finish?” The question sounded common place out of her mouth , for a moment he felt the air get knocked out of his lungs.

His expression caused her to muffle a laugh, and he found, hearing the air leave her as well. For a moment, they waited for their composure to wash over them before the conversation flowed.

“I seem to have taken to making a fool of myself with you. I owe you my apology.” In a better light, he’d see it as a just remark to make, but even the knowledge that she had helped him to finish seemed wrong. The only comfort was that she didn’t know.

“ I think it is a new talent. You did avoid the notice entirely.” She said, stifling a laugh. He recalled the morning before, and he looked for the cut to explain the blood from a young lady. He seemed to lose his sense around her. He remembered how her voice sounded half fantastical at that time, the expanding of her in his thoughts.

“I was caught off guard, to be clear. Then the last conversation made me see red, I could imagine how you felt.”

The fire her hand stoked had yet to disappear, being around her seemed secretive and new. Her scent seemed alluring, her easy smile entranced him, so surely, he thought, he could breathe her like life itself.

“It’s done now, you have the day to recover.”

It was cruel, he thought, to desire her when he’d barely earned her trust. He only just started to see glimmers of the light Jace had written about. Had it not been for the prolonged and hollow description of her appearance, he would’ve thought the boy had half fallen for her. Now, he understood why the words felt the way they did, appearance or otherwise.

“You and Jace were close?”

He regretted it the moment he asked. He saw the way she transformed at the mention of his name, seeing her reaction to it, like someone had stabbed her through the heart. She dropped the spoon for her food and rationalized the question. He wished he could move from it all together.

“He looked out for me, more than he did for the others.” Her voice lacked any emotion, like she was keeping a secret about them from him. Had he known either of them else, he would’ve thought he stumbled onto an affair.

“That was nice of him. He wrote fondly about you.” He held the goblet of watered wine to his lips as she gazed off to the side. He wanted to go back to the people they were before.

“He liked to care. One of the better traits he had. He’d get angry like you. That was a worse one.” He heard the hint of a smile, but her words hit him hard now. Jace was argumentative, never really taking to him like a father, more so a ward, more so an uncle, he supposed.

They had a shared grief over him over Viserys, and even as she seemed to close herself off from the emotion it caused, she cared enough to allow for the understanding. He knew he had taken to all the children in her own strange way, but even now, it seemed the first time he shared his grief rather than felt it alone. It had torn at Rhaenyra, he recalled, a mention of what they had lost would take her away from court, a sentiment he couldn’t share with her.

“I should go check on the dragons, I’m sure they’ll be glad for the break.” She stood up, distant and monotone, excusing herself without his response, walking away with the warmth. She left him cold and almost desperate.

He’d heard from the shepherds that she’d whistle to call Caraxes. In another light, it seemed as though they were singing through the whistling. She wouldn’t miss a day without feeding her dragon, flying or not, dragons bend easier when fed.

Perhaps they understood each other better than he could imagine, they’d understand being hungry, he supposed, from her eating habits, it was a way to show love, to bond with such a new relationship. The first rider of an eighty year old dragon was a big feat for such a small girl.

The rest of their day was spent apart until dinner. She had gone to Jonquil’s pool, a famously dangerous place for Targaryens, stopping by to announce it and then disappearing altogether for the evening period.

He lost himself in the letters, distracting himself from what now seemed like his worst impulse, responding to Lords who wished for protections, Lords who needed aid and the Lords at court who seemed to worry about the Queen, succession and all the things he was less glad to be away from now.

He was mapping out the route for them to take in the following days, when he heard the mouse of her presence. He called out twice to no response before their door eased open, an unkempt head of hair meeting him before her eyes did, a glimmer of light meeting him after the daunting day.

“How are you?”

He asked, looking at the blue evening dress coming into view, hugging her frame as she made her way to him. He preferred her in red.

“It was fine, no murder attempt.” The ease from before still had yet to take back her voice, a trend he hoped wouldn’t continue in his presence. One he hoped he’d gain

“I should’ve gone next week, with the full moon.” In passing, she’d mention something akin to a superstition she held. He didn’t think she prayed to the seven, judging from the Septa’s reaction to her she didn’t intend to but some small beliefs held in her.

“You pray to moon gods?” He asked passively, drawing out a trivial conversation , just to stay with her for a while, before they went back to the day to day.

“A little faith is always good. I suppose Targaryens would believe in themselves.” He looked up at her, comprehending the jab before returning to the map across his table.

“Then you should try it, unlike other Gods, your dragon will never disappoint you.” Unlike her Dragonstone bred peers, she never clung to the idea that she was a Targaryen. Unlike Addam and Alyn, she never claimed to be Laenor’s spawn or a Velayron.

She was simply a dragon rider, almost insulting the legacy of Targaryens with the refusal. It seemed more interesting than ill meaning, to him at least. What girl did not want to be a Targaryen?

“I wouldn’t prefer it, you’ve grown around men for too long, it makes the faith less believable.”

He smiled down at his map, trying his best to avoid her quick remark towards his suggestion. He decided to deflect from it all together.

“You should sleep better tonight, or you can have the maester make you a sleeping drought.”

He could feel his heart rise at the mention. She still hadn’t told him about her lack of sleep. Her history at Maidenpool with Milk of The Poppy or the sleeping drought wasn’t more than a secret understanding he could never uncover. Thankfully, she seemed unconcerned with the suggestion.

“I slept a while last night, I’m sure it’ll be better tonight.”

He recalled the dark bags under her eyes, the redden gaze that met his, the dirt from the day caked on her until this morning. He wondered if she would lie to him so carelessly, he glanced at her to see a look of understanding on her face. Perhaps she had forgotten, like with the Poppy milk.

“You didn’t look well rested?” He quirked an eyebrow to her, wanting to absolve her of the misunderstanding.

“I had a bad dream. I got up and couldn’t go back to sleep, hence the wine and tired look.” She fumbled with her hands, avoiding his look with the newly revealed information.

“The wine isn’t acceptable, I’d prefer the drought.” He sounded like his father the first time he visited Dragonstone after his wedding to his first Lady wife.

“ It wasn’t to sleep, I just..” She stopped herself, drawing his full attention to her now, this was a new conversation they had gone too.

“I just wanted to get rid of the thought of the dream, to lose some control over hearing the same thing repeatedly.”

She sounded like him when he justified his drinking to his grandmother after the wedding. He should wait, he knew he shouldn’t push to far with her, he’d get less understanding if she closed off entirely. The thought that she could be opening up was too tempting to ignore through, the hope she’d put the trust in him was pulling him like a tide to follow the conversation.

“What was the dream?”

He sat down looking up at her, she seemed delicate with the candlelight around her. She was water in his hands, he was scared to let go of her, for the first time they were as close has they had been because of her.

“ Nothing truly, I’m just a stupid girl who can’t quiet the stupid questions in her mind.”

Corlys had guessed that she was no older than ten and six, according to his ship mistress, she was a child on Driftmark with the others. He still had never heard her call herself a girl, now, she never seemed to capture the word well. He guessed she’d been an adult for longer that she was a child on the streets Addam claimed she resided on.

“What could be so bad?” It was half a plea to her, half a question for himself, what had plagued her thoughts so bad she’d need to escape her mind.

“I’ve been like the people we aid longer than I’ve been a dragon rider.” His shock from her answering the question couldn’t be concealed but she barely looked at him as she confessed her plight, he could only listen.

“They drop like flies, while I’m hunting the largest dragon alive, it doesn’t seem likely that I survive it.”

Her confession felt like someone had slapped him, she was almost mouse like now, quite in the space she held, dimming her own light, allowing the darkness to shine.

“I promised you..” He began forming some response, some sense of understanding in what she said, a comfort he’d given himself at the thought of her in danger, in that situation.

“ Yesterday, men clung to me begging for their lives to end, fathers and sons alike. Bigger and stronger than I’ve ever been. Terrified and dying because of the only thing that makes them not like me.”

Her voice was distorted with the anger and sadness that possessed her, he couldn’t remember the last time someone had been so open with him.

He’d give her whatever he could. He was never more sure that she’d never fight Vhagar.

“It was too much , all at once but I’m fine now.” He hadn’t hidden his demeanor, the divisive anger that guided his action. He had just wed at her age, she had a lifetime ahead of her, like Jace and Luke, like Viserys. She had children, chaos and adventures , written in her spirit.

It seemed a cruelty for her to doubt it.

“I meant my promise to you, Netty.”

He stared at her, catching her fallen gaze before it met his, staring past her, if she could trust him, even for a moment now, all would be well worth it.

“You’ll have a lifetime for yourself, I swear on Caraxes.”

She chuckled at the implication, seeing it as no more than a false comfort to pull her out of her doubt. She probably had a lifetime of promises from men just like him. He had never meant anything more though, he could feel the promise seal into his very bones.

“It is all well now, Daemon. No need to drag Caraxes into nightmares.” She was joking, he felt as though he’d gotten too serious now. She’d retract the new position she held him in if he pushed anymore, he’d settle for her contentment now. His plan seemed to settle more together than ever now.

“Very well.” He stated as she sat down next to him. He informed her about their mission to Pink Maiden, then to track where he might go from there to try to ambush him. She was quiet for the rest of the conversation.

They ate in his room that night, a simple meal of Acorn soup , with small conversation about packing between them. He felt almost mad looking for a difference in her demeanor with him, waiting to see if the confession had changed anything between them, with a resounding no by the end. She was content with it between them and moving along as though it hadn’t existed at all. He felt trapped in a desert with no water around him as they finished.

She wished him a good night and closed the door behind her shortly after the meal. He was a deranged man he thought. The thoughts left him half mad, devouring him until he had to put it away.

Tomorrow would be a new day for him hopefully.

#house of the dragon #hotd #daemon targaryen #fanfic #netty #nettles #nettles asoiaf #maidenpool #hotd fanfic #from eden ff #daemon targeryan x nettles #dragonseeds #daemon x nettles #nettles x daemon

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blue-mint-winter · 3 months ago

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Musings about the timeline of deaths and speed of the travelling news (in F&B)

After the betrayal of Hugh Hammer and Ulf the White in Tumbleton, the events of the Dance of the Dragons seem to follow in quick succession. However, it was surprising to learn that 5 months passed between Daemon's death on 22nd May and Rhaenyra's death on 22nd October 130 AC.

I'll try to put the events in order:

The First Battle of Tumbleton and the Betrayal.

Rhaenyra orders Addam's arrest and Nettles' execution, Addam escapes, Corlys is imprisoned, grandmaester Gerardys is sent to Dragonstone.

Lord Mooton receives his orders, maester Norren tells Daemon, next morning Daemon goes to Harrenhal, 14 days later fights with Aemond in the battle of the God's Eye and dies on 22nd May - that means Rhaenyra's orders arrived in Maidenpool on 7th May.

Attempt to rescue Corlys, hanging of the 2 rescuers, on the same day after sunset Helaena dies after half a year of captivity - so it's at least in June? The six months could be a maester's exaggeration.

The rumour about Helaena's murder causes a riot so it must be within a few days of her death if not the very next day.

Next day after riots Rhaenyra learns about Maidenpool disobeying her, Nettles escaping and Daemon's "betrayal", then storming of the Dragonpit happens on that night.

Rhaenyra leaves King's Landing at dawn, ser Perkin installs king Trystane, the beginning of the Moon of 3 Kings, Larys is back in court, Orwyle and Corlys are freed.

News about unrest in King's Landing reach Tumbleton.

Belated news about Aemond's death reach Tumbleton, Hugh Hammer wants to be a king.

Next day: Hugh wears a crown, kills Roger Corne, the Caltrops plot in the night to kill Hugh and Ulf.

2 days later, in the night - Second Battle of Tumbleton, Addam Velaryon attacks with a Riverlands army that he gathered.

Next morning after battle Ulf declares that he'll be king.

Next day Hobert Hightower poisons Ulf and himself.

Rhaenyra is on the road for unspecified amount of time, but she's turned away at Rosby, stays for one night at Stokeworth.

Rhaenyra stays in Duskendale for unspecified amount of time, on the condition that it won't be long, manages to send 3 ravens to Dragonstone but gets no reply from Gerardys, because Aegon II took over there - it's safe to assume that only happened after she left King's Landing. During her stay in Duskendale Rhaenyra sends ravens to Cregan Stark and Jeyne Arryn and gets their replies, then lady Darklyn asks her to leave because she overstayed her welcome.

Rhaenyra goes to Dragonstone and dies on 22nd October, Aegon II sends ravens to lords.

Sunfyre dies on 9th December, Aegon II almost executes Baela.

Borros Baratheon takes King's Landing after hearing about Rhaenyra's death, ending the Moon of 3 Kings.

Aegon II returns to King's Landing in the last days of the year (around 22nd December).

The fact that Rhaenyra on the Last Day in King's Landing received news about Daemon's "betrayal" but not about his death makes me think that this was still before the Battle of God's Eye. Obviously lord Mooton wouldn't inform her that he turned cloak, so someone else on her side had to uncover this. Too bad that it's not said if Rhaenyra got the information from one of her loyal lords by raven or if an informant travelled all the way to King's Landing to tell her what happened. It's likely that one of Black loyalists in Maidenpool, who didn't know why lord Mooton turned cloak, went to inform Rhaenyra.

Even looking at the map and how roads are laid out, if the courier is sent from Maidenpool, he has 2 options - turn west and go by Kingsroad or turn east towards Duskendale and take the road from there. Information between Tumbleton and King's Landing probably also goes by road, because Greens aren't sending ravens.

Map from Atlas of Ice and Fire

The thing is that Greens in Tumbleton got news about battle of the God's Eye after they heard about riots in King's Landing. Tumbleton is southwest of King's Landing and further away from Harrenhal than the capital. It would make sense for Rhaenyra to get the news about Daemon's death before the Greens, but she didn't. It must be because she'd left the city before the news came.

The news about the battle of the God's Eye must have reached King's Landing first before it belatedly reached Tumbleton. Harrenhal doesn't have a maester to send a raven and Alys wasn't in a hurry to tell anyone what happened, also Riverlanders hate Aemond so there's no one who would rush to inform the Greens about his death. That's why the information spread more slowly and the news from Harrenhal came so late to Tumbleton. It's possible that it first came late to King's Landing and then Larys and/or Orwyle sent a quick message to Tumbleton. Or they got the information in a normal time then kept it from Tumbleton and the ambitious Betrayers. They could have wanted to stall to give time to Aegon II and Sunfyre to recover to a fighting condition.

It is rather frustrating that it's unknown how much time passed between Tumbleton learning about the riots and about Aemond's death. The book gives the impression that it wasn't that long.

As word of the unrest at King’s Landing reached Prince Daeron’s host, many younger lords grew anxious to advance upon the city at once. Chief amongst them were Ser Jon Roxton, Ser Roger Corne, and Lord Unwin Peake…but Ser Hobert Hightower counseled caution, and the Two Betrayers refused to join any attack unless their own demands were met. Ulf White, it will be recalled, wished to be granted the great castle of Highgarden with all its lands and incomes, whilst Hard Hugh Hammer desired nothing less than a crown for himself. These conflicts came to a boil when Tumbleton learned belatedly of Aemond Targaryen’s death at Harrenhal.

Hugh openly wanted the crown even when he thought Aemond was still alive? Lol. One thing is for sure, the news of Aemond and Daemon killing each other must have been like an early Christmas present for him. He became the one with the largest dragon.

The Green army could have gone to King's Landing even without Hugh and Ulf. There were no dragons defending the city and they had Daeron's Tessarion. I guess Hobert was cautious because to his knowledge Daemon was still at large and he could take down Tessarion, so the Greens still needed to keep Hugh and Ulf around to fight him. But even with that, if the other lords were so impatient to march, Hobert couldn't hold them back for very long. After the news about Aemond's death, the events started moving very quickly. The Second Battle of Tumbleton happened only 3 days later.

Theories about symbolic timing of deaths

I was thinking if it was possible for Rhaenyra to die on the same day as Daemon. It would have been immensely tragic - Daemon sacrificing himself to kill Aemond, thinking this will protect Rhaenyra, unaware that at the same time she's killed by Aegon on Dragonstone while she's thinking that Daemon betrayed her for Nettles. That's incredibly tragic and angsty.

However, looking at the timeline, it's impossible for them to die on the same day because of Rhaenyra exchanging messages with the North and the Vale when she's in Duskendale. Ravens aren't that fast, so I'd give it a month for her to send letters and receive replies.

Also, Addam Velaryon needed time to gather Riverlands army and go with it to Tumbleton. It had to be after Aemond's death, because otherwise Aemond would have stopped the army.

It could be interesting and more plausible if Daemon's death and the storming of Dragonpit happened on the same day. Last day of Rhaenyra's reign in capital is the same day her husband and protector dies. It's possible as it gives 14 days for the news about Daemon and Nettles to travel from Maidenpool to King's Landing. That should be enough time. I just think that waiting until June would have been too suspicious. Lord Mooton received Rhaenyra's orders on 7th May, there is a time limit of how long Rhaenyra can wait for his reply as Maidenpool isn't that far away. Especially damning should be that Daemon didn't return on dragonback within a day or two.

Knowing just how honorable lord Mooton was, I doubt he sent a false message to Rhaenyra after he openly turned cloak and changed his banners. I think he just went radio silent and didn't send anything. The longer Daemon didn't come back and there were no ravens from Maidenpool, the more suspicious it must have looked to Rhaenyra. If it went on too long, it would look like a confirmation of betrayal. Not to mention she could send ravens to Rook's Rest or someone else closer to Maidenpool to ask them to check what's going on there and why they aren't replying. She couldn't rule out Aemond killing Daemon and burning the city.

Helaena dying after half a year in captivity which kickstarts the riots would place her death sometime in June, probably the second half. Could Rhaenyra really wait over a month for information about Maidenpool without suspecting anything? She reacted with rage to the news, so she wasn't expecting the betrayal. That leads me to believe that not enough time passed to make the lack of contact suspicious to her.

This makes the timing of Helaena's death slightly off. I think it was earlier than June and she wasn't a captive for full 6 months. I could accept if it was around 1st June, because then if she killed herself because Mysaria told her about Maelor's death, it would be on Children's Day and that makes it even more cruel and tragic.

Unspecified time in Duskendale

One thing I'm rather annoyed with is that the Moon of 3 Kings lasts around 3-4 months. Another is Rhaenyra staying so long in Duskendale. Even if travelling there took longer than usual, it's just not that far from the capital, so I'd give it maximum 2 weeks on the road. That would mean that she were in Duskendale for months, which was a time she could have used to travel to the Riverlands or the Vale and her more accommodating allies. As I said, communicating by raven with the North and the Vale could take her around a month, so after that why would she stay even longer in Duskendale doing nothing before she takes a ship to Dragonstone?

Rhaenyra stayed in limbo because the author arbitrarily decided that Aegon can retake the throne only in the end of the year. I'd say moving those events earlier seems better in this case. Tumbleton could happen soon after the riots in June, then Rhaenyra dies in July and Aegon II comes back to King's Landing in August. It doesn't collide with anything else and eliminates the awkward sitting around in Duskendale for months.

Thanks for reading, as always I'm open to more discussions. Timelines are rather fuzzy in ASOIAF, so it can be a source of endless speculation :)

Next post will be about Mysaria and Nettles situation.

#fire and blood #dance of the dragons #rhaenyra targaryen #daemon targaryen #book spoilers #my thoughts #asoiaf theories

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horizon-verizon · 2 years ago

Note

▪︎Mastre Norren, present in Harrenhal, tells us that Daemon was crazy about Nettles, as a man would be about his daughter.

▪︎Nettles was 17 years old, the same age as Baela and Rhaena, Daemon's own daughters.

▪︎Daemon affectionately nicknamed Nettles: Nettie.

▪︎Mushroom, dwarf of the court of Rhaenyra, known for his unreliable, often sexual and where sordid testimonies, is the very first source to declare that Daemon would have fallen in love with Nettles and would have taken her as a lover, when he did not wasn't even present at Harrenhal.

▪︎4 / 5 other sources also maintain that Nettles & Daemon were lovers, these written after Mushroom's testimony, therefore relying on the latter as well as other rumors, having in fact not been present either Harrenhal.

▪︎Glyadyn meanwhile, the maester who wrote Fire and Blood, supports Mushroom's version as the most likely to change his habit. Except that Glyadyn writes the book at least 1 century later, when all the characters of the dance are nothing more than dust, therefore not having even attended the events, based on biased testimonies of 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th hand . Without forgetting that Glyadyn is a maester, not very "for" the Targaryens in general (like most maesters) a pure product of his time, himself a misogine with his own prejudices which would necessarily lead him to lean more towards the simple history of lovers, even if, as the book says, there is no concrete proof of this. The only thing we can be sure of between Nettles and Daemon is that they spent their days hunting down Aemond on Rhaenyra's behalf.

Some people: Let's conveniently ignore those CRUCIAL elements and information of this relationship, and that completely changes the context of the interactions/relationship between the two characters! It doesn't matter that all the sources recounting Nettles and Daemon as lovers have in fact never seen them interact, relying mainly on word of mouth, and that the only maester who has actually seen them interact supports a platonic relationship! He is necessarily the one who is wrong since he is the only one to say it!

Sorry, but that Daemon:

▪︎taught Nettles how to eat, stand, and dress properly.

▪︎gave Nettles gifts: A hairbrush, mirror, coat and boots.

▪︎had adjoining rooms with Nettles.

▪︎ always had dinner and lunch with Nettles.

▪︎would be able to go after the people of Harrenhal if Nettles was ever killed.

▪︎loses his smile/joy reading Nettles' execution letter.

▪︎chooses to go against Rhaenyra's order to free Nettles.

▪︎ sees his emotions expressed through the cries of Caraxes when Nettles leaves.

Absolutely NONE of these things basically indicate a relationship of a romantic and/or sexual nature. All of this can easily pass within the framework of an affectionate platonic father & daughter / mentor & student relationship. Some Daemon reactions may not even be completely related / relate to Nettles, such as the reactions to the letter and the shouting of Caraxes.

The only things that can really look suspicious, to our modern eyes, are possibly already; the baths and the possible bed sharing, which is actually not even safe. However, you and many others had dealt with these aspects in depth. I will just say that for the baths, they are described in a learning context, where Daemon teaches Nettles, a girl who has always lived alone in the street, with no one to really educate her, how to wash properly/have a healthy lifestyle. It's the people who romanticize and or sexualize the baths, because the text itself never does that. And yes, platonic baths, it fucking exists, no offense to some who think they are smarter by claiming the opposite. Nudity = sex is a concept that bothers me so much...

I didn't even know Nettles & Daemon was a thing until I came to tumblr to say. Never when reading the book did I interpret them as lovers and I'm amazed at how many people do?! How is that even possible?! It seems to be totally at odds with the way GRRM writes their romances, especially because of the specific age difference between the characters. Some even say that Daemon was living out his fantasy with Nettles, leaving Rhaenyra to fend for herself, which is essentially untrue. Where the hell is this bullshit coming from too?

I think the ASOIAF fandom is one of the worst I've seen. The Sansa, Arya and Daenerys stuff alone is crazy, but the Fire and Blood character takes are even worse!The stuff I saw on Aemond?! Enough to make me nauseous for weeks.

Overall I only liked the series for Daemyra (although I hated episode 10) and sometimes Viserys. The rest was crap. Alicent, one of my favorite villains ever was ruined and I'm not even talking about the rest of the adaptation massacre, of certain sets and especially the fucking costumes.

I agree with you anon. And relate. I also didn’t even know people shipped them or even thought they could have had sex until I created a Tumblr account back in Oct ‘22.

And I argued/proved against DaemonxNettles through these posts:

Execution Letter/Sleeping Patterns/the Persons Deciding What to Do w/D and N after the Letter

Credibility of Gyldayn, Nettles, the Maidservants, and Readers Looking back at the “Lessons” Mushrooms says Daemon gave Rhaenyra

On Oberyn Martell being a Credible Source

The Strangeness of Shipping DaemonxNEttles to Spite Daemyra/Rhaenyra/Targs (la-pheacienne)

It is both Misogynist and Hypocritical of DxN shippers/green stans to Believe in DaemonxNettles

An example of a green stan/DaemonxNettles shipper shooting themsleves in the Logical foot

One correction: Norren and the lord he works for are at Maidenpool, east of Harrenhal. Daemon and Nettles were at Maidenpool, not Harrenhal.

#asoiaf asks to me #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #daemon and nettles #daemon targaryen #nettles #asoiaf shipping #daemon and nettles shipping #maester norren #maidenpool #fandom commentary #fandom critical #fire and blood sources #f&b master post

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ride-thedragon · 1 year ago

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Just figuring this out, but Lord Mooton just had to keep choosing Treason for the benefit of his house over and over again.

I don't like how much of a justification ' the girl is a child no matter how foul her treason.' is carrying in this assumption, but they knew what was going on.

They, at any point in time could've been like " hey Queen, your husband is messing with another girl" but then they'd lose the inherent protection against Aemond and Vhagar that Nettles and Daemon have ensured but failed to establish for months.

So it's this constant reliance on what's best for the house and what's best for their queen, and because they are smart people, they choose themselves, men have paramours in this world all the time.

Then, the queen demands the head of his paramour. They know she is right in some of her suspicions. However, she isn't demanding a fair trial for this girl. She wants them to kill this girl and for her husband to return, but the girl is innocent until she stands for trial. Like what the old king did and would ask of them in a similar place.

Like what Jaehaerys did for his daughter, basically. Which again is circle justification with an underlying misogyny, but it works in their favor.

So their choice again is to be loyal to Rhaenyra and follow her orders, something they all conclude would end with Daemon's wroth towards them or what Maester Norren suggests, which is make it Daemon's choice. Which is again treason but self-preservation.

In two weeks, they are no longer supporting treason, the relationship issue is sorted, and Daemon and Vhagar are gone. They change their banners after the threat of Vhagar is gone based on the beliefs that lead them out of the mess.

It's not a big part of the story by any means, but even in such small characters, George shows how politically savvy the Mooton's are and teaches a good lesson in how to play the game.

Men, Maesters, and Knights preserving their house>>>>.

#hotd #house of the dragon #fire and blood #maester norren #lord Mooton #ser florian #daemon x nettles #queen rhaenyra #nettles #nettles asoiaf #i love men playing the game well #daemon targaryen #he knows exactly what he's doing #yall cant jump me when i start thirsting over them #ser florian and daemon being the same age is so......

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stromuprisahat · 1 year ago

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... Prince Daemon departed Maidenpool for the last time. When he had gone, Maester Norren went to his lord to say, “Take the chain from my neck and bind my hands with it. You must need deliver me the queen. When I gave warning to a traitor and allowed her to escape, I became a traitor as well.” Lord Mooton refused. “Keep your chain,” his lordship said. “We are all traitors here.” And that night, Queen Rhaenyra’s quartered banners were taken down from where they flew above the gates of Maidenpool, and the golden dragons of King Aegon II raised in their stead.

The Princess and the Queen & Fire and Blood (George R. R. Martin)

Did they get the banners alongside Aegon's letter?

Did they have them stored somewhere just in case?

Did they sew them that night?

Where did they get the cloth of the proper colour?

#ASoIaF #The Princess and the Queen #Fire & Blood #valyrianscrolls #ch: The Dying of the Dragons: Rhaenyra Triumphant #Maester Norren #Manfryd Mooton #Dance of the Dragons #Houser Mooton #V #GRRM #books #quotes

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finitefall · 2 years ago

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So I summarize. Maester Norren says Daemon was crazy about Nettles like a father would be about his girl. He dines and lunches with her. Both have adjourned bedrooms. He taught her how to behave, eat, comb her hair, dress and wash properly, sometimes sharing a tub with her. Gave gifts related to what he taught her and apparently affectionately called her Nettie...

Is that the great love story? I'm sorry, but beyond the baths, which may seem weird to some people, but not really to me (Do you know Moiraine and Lan of "The Wheel of time" ?) well, it really looks like a paternalistic, mentor / student relationship...

People don't even think it's a great love story, they either hate Daemon and want it to be true because it makes him a creep and someone who cheated on Rhaenyra, or they hate Rhaenyra and use it to say Daemon didn't love her anymore and all Daemyra shippers are losers. I'm so tired of people wanting to convince us that Daemon and Nettles were in a romantic and sexual relationship. Daemon loved her as a daughter as I said before, and mentor/student relationships are interesting ones indeed.

Honestly, I can understand why taking baths together can seem weird to some people. I understand that at Nettles' age we weren't taking baths with a father figure. But things are different in other cultures, for some people it's not weird at all.

I haven't read The Wheel of Time yet, it's been in my to read list for a while now but there are always new books to read...

#ASOIAF #Daemon Targaryen #Nettles #answered

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bohemian-nights · 2 years ago

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In the end, the brown dragon was brought to heel by the cunning and persistence of a "small brown girl" of six-and-ten, who delivered him a freshly slaughtered sheep every morning, until Sheepstealer learned to accept and expect her. Munkun sets down the name of this unlikely dragonrider as Nettles. Mushroom tells us the girl was a bastard of uncertain birth called Netty, born to a dockside whore. By any name, she was black-haired, brown-eyed, brown-skinned, skinny, foul-mouthed, fearless.. and the first and last rider of the dragon Sheepstealer.

The girl Nettles did not share their celebrations. She had flown with the others, fought as bravely, burned and killed as they had, but her face was black with smoke and streaked with tears when she returned to Dragonstone.

Yet was fear of Vhagar the only reason Prince Daemon kept Nettles close to him? Mushroom would have us believe it was not. By the dwarfs account, Daemon Targaryen had come to love the small brown bastard girl, and had taken her into his bed.

Nor could Netty truly be called pretty. "A skinny brown girl on a skinny brown dragon," writes Munkun in his True Telling (though he never saw her). Septon Eustace says her teeth were crooked, her nose scarred where it had once been slit for thieving. Hardly a likely paramour for a prince, one would think.

Maester Norren writes that "the prince and his bastard girl" supped together every night, broke their fast together every morning, slept in adjoining bedchambers, that the prince "doted upon the brown girl as a man might dote upon his daughter," instructing her in "common courtesies" and how to dress and sit and brush her hair, that he made gifts to her of "an ivory-handled hairbrush, a silvered looking glass, a cloak of rich brown velvet bordered in satin, a pair of riding boots of leather soft as butter." The prince taught the girl to wash, Norren says, and the maidservants who fetched their bath water said he oft shared a tub with her, "soaping her back or washing the dragon stink from her hair, both of them as naked as their namedays."

“As to the girl Nettles, She is a common thing, with the stink of sorcery upon her," the queen declared. "My prince would ne'er lay with such a low creature. You need only look at her to know she has no drop of dragon's blood in her. It was with spells that she bound a dragon to her, and she has done the same with my lord husband." So long as he was in the girl's thrall, Prince Daemon could not be relied upon, Her Grace went on. Therefore, let a command be sent at once to Maidenpool, but only for the eyes of Lord Mooton. "Let him take her at table or abed and strike her head off. Only then shall my prince be freed."

"It may be we shall be destroyed whatever choice we make. The prince is more than fond of this brown child, and his dragon is close at hand. A wise lord would kill them both, lest the prince burn Maidenpool in his wroth."

How the prince and his bastard girl spent their last night beneath Lord Mooton's roof is not recorded, but as dawn broke they appeared together in the yard, and Prince Daemon helped Nettles saddle Sheepstealer one last time. It was her custom to feed him each day before she flew; dragons bend easier to their rider's will when full. That morning she fed him a black ram, the largest in all Maidenpool, slitting the ram's throat herself. Her riding leathers were stained with blood when she mounted her dragon, Maester Norren records, and "her cheeks were stained with tears." No word of farewell was spoken betwixt man and maid, but as Sheepstealer beat his leathery brown wings and climbed into the dawn sky, Caraxes raised his head and gave a scream that shattered every window in Jonquil's Tower. High above the town, Nettles turned her dragon toward the Bay of Crabs, and vanished in the morning mists, never to be seen again at court or castle.

The singers tell us that the old prince survived the fall and afterward made his way back to the girl Nettles, to spend the remainder of his days at her side.

Sixteen men perished in the fight that followed, and threescore more suffered burns before the angry brown wyrm took wing and fled deeper into the mountains with "a ragged woman clinging to its back." That was the last known sighting of Sheepstealer and his rider, Nettles, recorded in the annals of Westeros...though the wildlings of the mountains still tell tales of a "fire witch" who once dwelled in a hidden vale far from any road or village. One of the most savage of the mountain clan came to worship her, the storytellers say; youths would prove their courage by bringing gifts to her, and were only accounted men when they returned with burns to show that they had faced the dragon woman in her lair.

-Fire & Blood 🔥🐉

#nettles #house of the dragon #hotd #hotd spoilers #houseofthedragon #nettles f&b #nettles fancast #jessica allain #nettles asoiaf #👩🏾🐑🐉#no weapon formed against nettles shall prosper 🗡#valyrianscrolls #netty #houseofthedragonedit #hotdedit #bnmoodboard

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