#maester norren

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

You don’t believe Nettles was Daemon’s bastard?

🤨 Yes? I mean, no, I don't believe Daemon fucked his daughter. Presuming that's what you're asking, and that you aren't a sexual-relationship-denialist. (I find "anti" doesn't quite work as a properly definitive noun here.) If you are, though, you should reread:

By the dwarf’s account, Daemon Targaryen had come to love the small brown bastard girl, and had taken her into his bed. How much credence can we give the fool’s testimony? [...] Septon Eustace says her teeth were crooked, her nose scarred where it had once been slit for thieving. Hardly a likely paramour for a prince, one would think. Against that we have The Testimony of Mushroom…and in this case, the Chronicles of Maidenpool as set down by Lord Mooton’s maester. Maester Norren writes that “the prince and his bastard girl” supped together every night, broke their fast together every morning, slept in adjoining bedchambers, that the prince “doted upon the brown girl as a man might dote upon his daughter,” instructing her in “common courtesies” and how to dress and sit and brush her hair, that he made gifts to her of “an ivory-handled hairbrush, a silvered looking glass, a cloak of rich brown velvet bordered in satin, a pair of riding boots of leather soft as butter.” The prince taught the girl to wash, Norren says, and the maidservants who fetched their bath water said he oft shared a tub with her, “soaping her back or washing the dragon stink from her hair, both of them as naked as their namedays.” None of this constitutes proof that Daemon Targaryen had carnal knowledge of the bastard girl, but in light of what followed we must surely judge that more likely than most of Mushroom’s tales.

Or to sum up what Gyldayn is saying: "normally Mushroom is not trustworthy. However, here is a maester (someone in my job, someone I trust) with his professional records of the histories of Maidenpool, and he confirms Mushroom's story. I think it's very likely."

Or what GRRM is saying: "I know I set up Mushroom to be the wild sexy gossip you can't believe guy, but this is an actual bit of wild sexy truth here, ok? Sorry the conceit of my history book doesn't let me actually state anything outright."

And in case you were asking the daddy-in-more-ways-than-one question, no, I've stated from the start (2013 with TPATQ, tyvm) that Nettles exists to show that dragonriding does not necessarily require Valyrian blood. Daemon is just paternalistic. Patronizing, in a Henry Higgins meets "Wildest Dreams" kinda way...

[horizon-verizon]

Nettles is Daemon’s daughter and absolutely no one can convince me otherwise. First of all, her personality is incredibly similar to Daemon’s mother, Alyssa, which I don’t think is a coincidence. Both are anything but refined and ladylike, Alyssa is “as bawdy a wench as any barmaid in King’s Landing, as she herself was fond of boasting”, Nettles is “a filthy girl with an even filthier mouth”, both are tearaway tomboys, they are both described as not conventionally attractive, Alyssa has a broken nose and mismatched eyes while Nettles has a scarred nose and crooked teeth. And not only Alyssa, but also Baelon’s bravery, bopping Balerion on the nose, Baela and Daemon’s personalities all echo in Nettles, particularly in how she tames Sheepstealer. There are too many similarities between them for it to be random.

Second of all, if we look at Daemon’s reaction to “Rhaenyra’s” letter, there’s something a lot of people miss:

The prince greeted me politely, but as he read I saw the joy go from his eyes, and a sadness descended upon him, like a weight too heavy to be borne. When the girl asked what was in the letter, he said, ‘A queen’s words, a whore’s work.’

He was happy when he got a letter from his queen and wife, but became very sad when he read its contents, he was crushed with grief. He then blamed Mysaria for the content of the letter. This reveals several things:

1. If he lost attraction to Rhaenyra and was cheating on her, why would he be happy to get her letter ?

2. If he didn’t care about Rhaenyra, why would he be sad instead of angry ? Why did he feel no guilt or shame, or try to cover up the truth if he was cheating ?

3. If all he wanted to do was control Rhaenyra as a puppet, if he only cared about himself having power, why didn’t he fly back to King’s Landing after letting Nettles escape and come up with a way to gaslight Rhaenyra, who at this point was beginning to lose her handle on King’s Landing ? Wouldn’t he have wanted to prioritize winning the war ? Persuade Rhaenyra to name their son Aegon heir instead of Joffrey ?

4. A “weight too heavy to be borne.” That isn’t the reaction of a man who got caught cheating and regrets it, it’s the reaction of a man devastated that his queen and wife lost faith in him and made him choose between her and his daughter.

He blames Mysaria for the letter, instead of getting angry at Rhaenyra herself. Why is that ? Because he lived with Rhaenyra in an unconventional joint family for a decade and yet Rhaenyra is unable to accept Nettles and doesn’t trust him anymore. Rhaenyra and Daemon raised all of their children together. He likely expected that he’d be able to officially introduce Nettles as his daughter after the war. But those plans were dashed terribly.

Yeah, it's exhausting to point out all of the things you say abt Mysaria, Nettles, and Daemon time and time again over the past few years to people. As for Nettles being Daemon's bio daughter, I truly believe in it. At first I was like "🤨" but then "🤔" and now I've been on board for a while. It just makes sense to me, esp when you contemplate that Daemon absolutely would have been sleeping around on Rhea while a few feet/miles from the Stepstones or slept with some pirate or whatever. And yes, it adds so much to see Nettles act Baela-Daemon-like or have more...room to behave contrary to the ideal "lady" when she's had to look out for herself perhaps from very young childhood.

[ride-thedragon]

Is this a safe space ?

If y'all see me thirsting over a 22 year old maester who puts an end to Daemon Targaryen's reign of terror, I just want us all to agree to not judge others.

[stromuprisahat]

From King’s Landing came a raven bearing the queen’s message to Manfryd Mooton, Lord of Maidenpool: he was to deliver her the head of the bastard girl Nettles, who was said to have become Prince Daemon’s lover and who the queen had therefore judged guilty of high treason. ... “These are foul times,” Lord Mooton said, “and it is a foul choice this queen has given me. The girl is a guest beneath my roof. If I obey, Maidenpool shall be forever cursed. If I refuse, we shall be attainted and destroyed.” To which his brother answered, “It may be we shall be destroyed whatever choice we make. The prince is more than fond of this brown child, and his dragon is close at hand. A wise lord would kill them both, lest the prince burn Maidenpool in his wroth.” “The queen has forbidden any harm to come to him,” Lord Mooton reminded them, “and murdering two guests in their beds is twice as foul as murdering one. I should be doubly cursed.” Thereupon he sighed and said, “Would that I had never read this letter.” And up spoke Maester Norren, saying, “Mayhaps you never did.” What was said after that is unknown. All we know is that the maester, a young man of two-and-twenty, found Prince Daemon and the girl Nettles at their supper that night, and showed them the queen’s letter.

The Princess and the Queen × Fire and Blood (George R. R. Martin)

To quote Daemon Targaryen himself:

“You are a bad maester, but a good man.”

[bohemian-nights]

When people say Daemon and Nettles had a father-daughter relationship and/or he was her biological father I get so confused 😐. Nettles was born in 113 AC (on Driftmark) at this time Daemom was ruiling the Bloodstone as "King of the Stepstones and the Narrow Sea" in the Stepstones. He had been doing this since his exile by Viserys in 111 AC. He doesn't return to Driftmark until 115 AC. This would make Nettles already two years old. So i’m not sure what health class these particular fans claiming this attended….but that’s simply impossible in every way, shape, and form.

That being said, book wise we don’t get any particular information about Daemon’s relationship with his children. That’s not to say that he was a bad father or that he didn’t love them, rather we just don’t have any indication that fatherhood changed him. And show wise Daemons relationship with his daughters is unfortunately very strained to say the least. Aegon III and Viserys II are babies and we’ve seen him interact with them only once. The same thing can be said for Jace, Luke, and Joffrey.

So we can’t say his actions toward Nettles were fatherly when we have no indication of how he supposedly acts when he’s being “fatherly.”

(Sorry for ranting)

You are more than welcome to rant all day 😊

At this point I’m convinced people either haven’t read the book like they say they have or they skipped over Nettles parts because it triggered them 🤷🏽‍♀️ She’s not his kid and no amount of saying she could be his daughter will change the impossibility of that being the case.

Yeah, we don’t get any parenting info on book! Daemon other than him being okay with Baela being a bit of a wild child. I think he’s better than his show counterpart though because he’s not separating his kids and there is no mentions of them being treated unequally.

Baela in the show writes to Daemon on Driftmark(from what I remember, someone correct me if I’m wrong cause I’m not rewatching that trash), but he is pretty much a deadbeat💀

This man has been a father to no one and if people think he’s going to suddenly be a surrogate father to Nettles then they are smoking crack. If they were going to do the father-daughter plot Nettles would be scrapped and replaced with Rhaena(which is what they are hoping for despite it not making any sense and basically mean having to rework the story).

There is nothing fatherly about bathing with a young woman butt naked, but they are more than welcome to explain how Corlys bathing naked with Rhaenyra would be 100% platonic father/daughter-in-law bonding time 🙃

[daemonxnettles]

Maester Norren writes that "the prince and his bastard girl" supped together every night, broke their fast together every morning, slept in adjoining bedchambers, that the prince "doted upon the brown girl as a man might dote upon his daughter," instructing her in "common courtesies" and how to dress and sit and brush her hair, that he made gifts to her of "an ivory-handled hairbrush, a silvered looking glass, a cloak of rich brown velvet bordered in satin, a pair of riding boots of leather soft as butter." The prince taught the girl to wash, Norren says, and the maidservants who fetched their bath water said he oft shared a tub with her, "soaping her back or washing the dragon stink from her hair, both of them as naked as their namedays."

Fire & Blood🔥

[qyburnsghost]

Lady Mysaria, once Daemon's paramour, fed Rhaenyra's growing distrust of the dragonseeds with rumors of Nettles and Daemon's relationship. Rhaenyra raged, declaring that Nettles had used spells to bond with Sheepstealer and to seduce her husband, and that Daemon could not be relied upon while in the girl's thrall. The queen sent a raven to Manfryd Mooton, Lord of Maidenpool, ordering him to deliver Nettles's head but not to do Daemon any harm, only to tell him to return to the capital. However, according to Maester Norren, Manfryd and his advisors, fearful of how Daemon slept beside Nettles, unwilling to kill a guest or a young girl (or two guests, to prevent Daemon from becoming enraged at the death of the girl he was "more than fond of" and taking out his wrath on Maidenpool), disobeyed the queen and followed Norren's advice to pretend that they had never received the letter. When Maester Norren informed Daemon that Rhaenyra had declared Nettles a traitor, Daemon recognized Mysaria's actions in Rhaenyra's words, and and thanked the maester for the warning, before he allowed Nettles to escape the next morning. It is unknown how the two spent their last night together, but at dawn Daemon helped Nettles saddle Sheepstealer one last time. Nettles killed a large black ram and fed it to her dragon, then tearfully flew Sheepstealer into the morning mists of the Bay of Crabs. According to Norren, no word of farewell was spoken between Daemon and Nettles, but as Sheepstealer flew away, Caraxes let out a scream that shattered all the windows of Jonquil's Tower.

That same day, Daemon did not return to his wife in King's Landing, but publicly announced his departure for Harrenhal. He perished fighting Aemond in the Battle Above the Gods Eye. Since Daemon's body was never found in the Gods Eye, some songs claim that he survived the encounter and found his way back to Nettles.Rhaenyra was enraged by the disappearance of Nettles, and her husband's betrayal.

-ASOIAF Wiki

[venusintheblindspots-blog]

The Maiden, the Mother and the Crone: a study on Nettles

Nettles, the Maiden

In ASOIAF, the maiden represents innocence and chasity. Now, like all the other faces of the faith of the seven, the maiden is represented through various characters, with one of them being Nettles. With her upbringing being unknown, all that is known about Nettles’ childhood and sexual experience are speculations made based on her class, race and gender. She is not granted the privilege of innocence the noble women in Westeros are given.

Despite the authors of fire and blood, and the people in-universe accusing her of promiscuity, Nettles’ connection to the maiden has almost nothing to do with sex, but is rather an exploration of the war amongst the noble houses of Westeros, and the fault of legitimacy as it pertains to Targaryens.

The Claiming of Sheepstealer

According to the accounts in Fire and Blood, Nettles claims the wild-dragon Sheepstealer by feeding him freshly slaughtered sheep everyday until he came to accept her as his mount. In various cultures, religions and art pieces, sheep are used to represent innocence and purity. Sheep are also generally defenseless against harm, and are likely to die from panic if even frightened.

How this relates to Nettles and the maiden:

The account of the events we get in ASOIAF, always comes from nobility. We do not get the POV of anyone of low birth, but, we don’t need their POV to know that the smallfolk are always at the mercy of the people that rule over them. They are always the first and largest casualties in wars that are usually insignificant to them and their well-being. Nettles being of low birth means that she’s lived most of her life unprotected, and at risk of being a means to ends for the schemes of a lord or lady, or even a prince. Nettles being of low birth means that she’s a sheep in a realm ruled by dragons.

By becoming the rider of Sheepstealer, Nettles becomes exposed to life of the nobility in Westeros, in the most devastating way, war.

Nettles, the Mother

Motherhood in Westeros

The loss of innocence for the women of ASOIAF is usually synonymous with the loss of their virginity. Sex isn’t typically done for their pleasure, but rather the fulfilling of their marital duties by providing their husbands with an heir. Their value as women is based on their fertility, so a child sired in marriage is often the sole form of agency and protection women in Westeros get.

GRRM frequently uses metaphors to explore the loss of innocence, like Jaime being cut by Ser Arthur Dayne during his knighting, or Jaime witnessing the death of Brandon and Rickard Stark, or Sansa experiencing her first period, etc. For Nettles, her loss of innocence is written in a way that parallels the optics of motherhood in Westeros.

When Nettles claimed Sheepstealer, she was granted individuality. She is no longer a mere sheep in the field, she has an identity, the Unlikely Dragon-Rider. She is granted protection and value, much like the wives of the lords of Westeros are given, after providing their husbands with a son. When Rhaenyra calls for her head, Lord Mooton, Ser Florian, and Maester Norren all saw it as an unjustly request. If she hadn’t claimed Sheepstealer, if she still remained as a nameless, baseborn girl, she would’ve been killed, swiftly.

Nettles, the Crone

The Dance of the Dragons was the most deadly war fought in Westeros, as it was headlined by dragon-riders. Most of the participants wound up dead by the end of it, with their cause lost in grief. There are many events that led to the dance of the dragons, but at its core, it was a war fought over the legitimacy of House Targaryen. Nettles is one of the few people who survived it, and her dragon is one of the last to be seen or heard of before Daenerys Targaryen’s hatching of Rhaegal, Viserion and Drogon.

Masculinity and Legitimacy in Westeros

The conquest of Westeros by Aegon and his two sister-wives, Rhaenys and Visenya, was only possible with the dragons of Old Valyria. The legitimacy of the Targaryen dynasty relies on blood quantum,i.e.,having the blood of the dragon, and being able to ride one. All the Targaryen kings, from Aegon, straight down to Viserys, were dragon riders, and that played a part in their kingship.

Kings in Westeros are the ultimate male figures, followed by knights, maesters and lords. Looking at these archetypes and their specific roles,- kings and lords protect the realm, knights defend the innocent, maesters share their wisdom with youth-, Nettles fulfills all of them during the Dance.

The Black Ram

After the Dance, Nettles is worshipped as a fire witch by the mountain clans of the Vale. According to the accounts in fire and blood, the youths would bring her gifts and return as men with burns to show that they faced the dragon woman in her lair. Nettles in this instance is being used as a rite of passage and symbol of the loss of innocence, as well as wisdom, paralleling the relationship between her and Sheepstealer.

Through Sheepstealer she becomes a warrior and a protector of the realm, and she defends Rhaenyra’s claim like any knight would. Who best to act as a rite of passage but the woman who has played in every archetype they aspire to be?

Before her departure from Maidenpool, and one her last recorded appearances, Nettles feeds her dragon Sheepstealer, a black ram. She’d slit its throat herself, and the animal’s blood was said to have stained her leather clothing. The black ram is often associated with wisdom, discernment, sacrifice and guidance. In most cultures, it represents different gods and goddesses of war, fertility and royalty. She started her story as an innocent sheep, ignorant of the spoils of war, and ends as the black ram, the epitome of wisdom.

And to close: Nettles isn’t confirmed to be of royal blood, but she is embodiment of House Targaryen’s ideology of being gods amongst men.

[lovelipton]

Chapter 4

Smut warning: Masterbat!on.

It seemed a betrayal to imagine her. It was an unfair thing to lust for.

He grabbed the oil jug from atop his fire place, taking it to his night stand, coating his fingers as he sat down, trying to conjure up any other image.

The blood orange smell had lingered on him, adding to the difficulty of the situation. The tallow oil smelled like her hair. Perhaps he should ask a maid, at least one would be willing. The thought back to their lingering touches and wanting stares during his bath, pretty girls, older than his companion, their pale hands gliding over him with a wet cloth, how his hand slid down the girls back, how the smell could take him back if he gave in.

He stopped himself, mindlessly grabbing his neglected cock with the oiled hand, trying his best ignore his thoughts. He slid his hand, in the same memorized way from his youth and tried his best to be quick.

He thought about his wife, the salt air the first time he had her, a time where it was need and not want, the feeling of her thigh against his hand, her mouth on his. When she was younger, all those years ago in the brothel.

His hand picked up speed, he felt himself building to the needed climax. His head arched back, lost in older memory. He stroked his tip, grunting with his dependence on the budding release.

The stench of stale ale in the air, the mindless interlocked bodies her eyes pulled to. Nettles eyes would pull like that to any new thing shown to her, the ale was polluted with the stale wine.

If he stopped now he wouldn’t finish,  he was a man lost to his urges. His mind flashed to her, half dressed, undressed, licking her lips, laughing and looking up at him, mouth ajar for what ever reason. It felt wrong to imagine, he tried to think to anything else but a memory of her would cloud his mind and judgement for what was right. All he knew was what he needed to do. He was almost there.

He grunted with each stroke, on the brink of his anticipation paying off. He heard the knock at the door and couldn’t answer. He leaned into himself, tugging away mindlessly. The oranges danced with his building sweat. A coating covered him as he drew near than he had been in months, her round breast, revealed itself from her raven coils, he could taste his peak.

He could hear her calling his name, through their door, he didn’t know if he was half conjuring it.

“Daemon?”

His peak came with the swing of their door, a curious call of his name and a strained grunt at her intrusion.

“Sorry, Your Grace.”

Ever quick, she recognized his state, wide eyed to be sure with a quick apology and pulling the door back shut, he was past the point where he could stop himself. He dropped his cock as it spurted over the floor, the immediate guilt and relief flooding him together.

He placed his hands at either side of him, nearly delirious with the relief of his expectation, he steadied himself and recognized where he was, what he had done to get there, almost angered by the new clarity.

He could apologize to her to her enough to justify it, he had to apologize to her now for what happened. The door wasn’t locked on his insistence to his side, he should’ve spoken to send her away. He felt no control over it all, a deep desire settled in his soul over it.

He stood up hazily and got dressed, wiping the sweat off his skin and rinsing away all the musk that had developed in its arrival. He knocked the door of and searched her room to find it empty and unmade. He closed the door and made his way to breakfast through his room, he had no desire to see the state he left his in.

He felt hollow as he made his way to the dinning area, unwilling to face the myriad of emotions he could anticipate from her, he doubted he would look less that guilty at her, her face changing into something more desired now.

He walked in on her, in deep conversation with Maester Norren and Lord Mooton, she’s the first to recognize him in the room.

She stands as he would expect, a glimpse of shyness lingered in her expression, avoiding his eyes entirely, preserving her serious expression as the others join her greeting. He made his way at her side. They all sat together, going into a less intense version of the previous conversation , she refused to meet his eyes.

“You should ask him now that he’s here. Perhaps you’ll listen to him.”

She was never impolite, if she was angry her tone would say but she simply sounded flustered, with the same restrained anger she met him with more often than not.

“What is your request my Lord?” He stared at the fat country Lord, seemingly caught up in the throws of the previous conversation. He looked towards the girl, who focused intently on the porridge in front of her, idling herself by playing with it, breathing deeply to calm herself.

He wondered if she had cared about what she saw, if his worry would even matter after he heard what the Lord said, it didn’t seem to impact her day as much as he had.

“I’m simply curious about the possibility of you both splitting up, to find Vhagar and cover the Riverlands with your protection.”

He could feel his anger rise with the closing of the statement, seeing why there was need for the argument in the first place.

Did he think they sat on dragon back each day to waste time?

That they simply enjoyed the others reactions to the piles of bodies they’d stack every other week?

He felt Nettles heat leave her as he restated what seemed to be the same conversation to him. She was as anxious as she was angry.

 The girl couldn’t sleep for so long, at least having someone near her, making sure she would was a comfort. He doubted whether she would eat alone or take care of her self without his insistence. She drank herself to peace just the last night.

His grand plan never made her a causality, he recalled. She’d always go back to Rhaenyra’s side as he went after Vhagar. Even as a suggestion the girl was in danger by herself against Vhagar. No one dragon could stand alone against her.

He gripped the knife in his hand tightly, trying his best to rationalize his anger before he spoke. Did he think the girl was here in jest for company alone?

He felt a warm thing grab his thigh, shifting his demeanor to confusion , he looked down then up at her, a weary expression trying to reassure him, in some small attempt to quell a dragon’s tendency. He could feel himself calm, wondering if she used the same method on Sheepstealer before.

He turned back to the scared Lord, resting the knife down before he responded.

“It would be a useless feat, no dragon alone would stand against Vhagar, even I need someone at my side to make sure I return. Her grace is very adamant on that front.”

She moved her hand back to herself and he felt the warmth leave him, almost hostile in its departure.  Her food busied her as the conversation continued, over breakfast, entailing small notes about the following steps towards a quicker end to his nephew.

He checked on her throughout the conversation, sometimes justifying it by making sure she took note of certain places, other times to ensure her presence, just to gage her reaction. By the time they were done he was sure he had paid her more attention, against his better judgment.

“We will leave you both to discuss further, Your Grace.” The Maester stated before departing behind his Lord, it couldn’t have been after nine when he and Netty were finally left alone.

She was wearing a Targaryen red dress, truly made for court, she found a way to make it look like an appropriate dress for the occasion, it dipped low like a King’s Landing style he noted before turning away with he thought, entirely.

“Did you finish?” The question sounded common place out of her mouth , for a moment he felt the air get knocked out of his lungs.

His expression caused her to muffle a laugh, and he found, hearing the air leave her as well. For a moment, they waited for their composure to wash over them before the conversation flowed.

“I seem to have taken to making a fool of myself with you. I owe you my apology.” In a better light, he’d see it as a just remark to make, but even the knowledge that she had helped him to finish seemed wrong. The only comfort was that she didn’t know.

“ I think it is a new talent. You did avoid the notice entirely.” She said, stifling a laugh. He recalled the morning before, and he looked for the cut to explain the blood from a young lady. He seemed to lose his sense around her. He remembered how her voice sounded half fantastical at that time, the expanding of her in his thoughts.

“I was caught off guard, to be clear. Then the last conversation made me see red, I could imagine how you felt.”

The fire her hand stoked had yet to disappear, being around her seemed secretive and new. Her scent seemed alluring, her easy smile entranced him, so surely, he thought, he could breathe her like life itself.

“It’s done now, you have the day to recover.”

It was cruel, he thought, to desire her when he’d barely earned her trust. He only just started to see glimmers of the light Jace had written about. Had it not been for the prolonged and hollow description of her appearance, he would’ve thought the boy had half fallen for her. Now, he understood why the words felt the way they did, appearance or otherwise.

“You and Jace were close?”

He regretted it the moment he asked. He saw the way she transformed at the mention of his name, seeing her reaction to it, like someone had stabbed her through the heart.  She dropped the spoon for her food and rationalized the question. He wished he could move from it all together.

“He looked out for me, more than he did for the others.” Her voice lacked any emotion, like she was keeping a secret about them from him. Had he known either of them else, he would’ve thought he stumbled onto an affair.

“That was nice of him. He wrote fondly about you.” He held the goblet of watered wine to his lips as she gazed off to the side. He wanted to go back to the people they were before.

“He liked to care. One of the better traits he had. He’d get angry like you. That was a worse one.” He heard the hint of a smile, but her words hit him hard now. Jace was argumentative, never really taking to him like a father, more so a ward, more so an uncle, he supposed.

They had a shared grief over him over Viserys, and even as she seemed to close herself off from the emotion it caused, she cared enough to allow for the understanding. He knew he had taken to all the children in her own strange way, but even now, it seemed the first time he shared his grief rather than felt it alone. It had torn at Rhaenyra, he recalled, a mention of what they had lost would take her away from court, a sentiment he couldn’t share with her.

“I should go check on the dragons, I’m sure they’ll be glad for the break.” She stood up, distant and monotone, excusing herself without his response, walking away with the warmth. She left him cold and almost desperate.

He’d heard from the shepherds that she’d whistle to call Caraxes. In another light, it seemed as though they were singing through the whistling. She wouldn’t miss a day without feeding her dragon,  flying or not, dragons bend easier when fed.

Perhaps they understood each other better than he could imagine, they’d understand being hungry, he supposed, from her eating habits, it was a way to show love, to bond with such a new relationship.  The first rider of an eighty year old dragon was a big feat for such a small girl.

The rest of their day was spent apart until dinner. She had gone to Jonquil’s pool, a famously dangerous place for Targaryens, stopping by to announce it and then disappearing altogether for the evening period.

He lost himself in the letters, distracting himself from what now seemed like his worst impulse, responding to Lords who wished for protections, Lords who needed aid and the Lords at court who seemed to worry about the Queen, succession and all the things he was less glad to be away from now.

He was mapping out the route for them to take in the following days, when he heard the mouse of her presence. He called out twice to no response before their door eased open, an unkempt head of hair meeting him before her eyes did, a glimmer of light meeting him after the daunting day.

“How are you?”

 He asked, looking at the blue evening dress coming into view, hugging her frame as she made her way to him. He preferred her in red.

“It was fine, no murder attempt.” The ease from before still had yet to take back her voice, a trend he hoped wouldn’t continue in his presence. One he hoped he’d gain

“I should’ve gone next week, with the full moon.” In passing, she’d mention something akin to a superstition she held. He didn’t think she prayed to the seven, judging from the Septa’s reaction to her she didn’t intend to but some small beliefs held in her.

“You pray to moon gods?” He asked passively, drawing out a trivial conversation , just to stay with her for a while, before they went back to the day to day.

“A little faith is always good. I suppose Targaryens would believe in themselves.”  He looked up at her, comprehending the jab before returning to the map across his table.

“Then you should try it, unlike other Gods, your dragon will never disappoint you.” Unlike her Dragonstone bred peers, she never clung to the idea that she was a Targaryen. Unlike Addam and Alyn, she never claimed to be Laenor’s spawn or a Velayron.

She was simply a dragon rider, almost insulting the legacy of Targaryens with the refusal. It seemed more interesting than ill meaning, to him at least. What girl did not want to be a Targaryen?

“I wouldn’t prefer it, you’ve grown around men for too long, it makes the faith less believable.” 

He smiled down at his map, trying his best to avoid her quick remark towards his suggestion. He decided to deflect from it all together.

“You should sleep better tonight, or you can have the maester make you a sleeping drought.”

He could feel his heart rise at the mention. She still hadn’t told him about her lack of sleep. Her history at Maidenpool with Milk of The Poppy or the sleeping drought wasn’t more than a secret understanding he could never uncover.  Thankfully, she seemed unconcerned with the suggestion.

“I slept a while last night, I’m sure it’ll be better tonight.”

He recalled the dark bags under her eyes, the redden gaze that met his, the dirt from the day caked on her until this morning. He wondered if she would lie to him so carelessly, he glanced at her to see a look of understanding on her face. Perhaps she had forgotten, like with the Poppy milk.

“You didn’t look well rested?” He quirked an eyebrow to her, wanting to absolve her of the misunderstanding.

“I had a bad dream. I got up and couldn’t go back to sleep, hence the wine and tired look.” She fumbled with her hands, avoiding his look with the newly revealed information.

“The wine isn’t acceptable, I’d prefer the drought.” He sounded like his father the first time he visited Dragonstone after his wedding to his first Lady wife.

“ It wasn’t to sleep, I just..” She stopped herself, drawing his full attention to her now, this was a new conversation they had gone too.

“I just wanted to get rid of the thought of the dream, to lose some control over hearing the same thing repeatedly.”

She sounded like him when he justified his drinking to his grandmother after the wedding. He should wait, he knew he shouldn’t push to far with her, he’d get less understanding if she closed off entirely. The thought that she could be opening up was too tempting to ignore through, the hope she’d put the trust in him was pulling him like a tide to follow the conversation.

“What was the dream?”

 He sat down looking up at her, she seemed delicate with the candlelight around her. She was  water in his hands, he was scared to let go of her, for the first time they were as close has they had been because of her.

“ Nothing truly, I’m just a stupid girl who can’t quiet the stupid questions in her mind.”

Corlys had guessed that she was no older than ten and six, according to his ship mistress, she was a child on Driftmark with the others. He still had never heard her call herself a girl, now, she never seemed to capture the word well. He guessed she’d been an adult for longer that she was a child on the streets Addam claimed she resided on.

“What could be so bad?” It was half a plea to her, half a question for himself, what had plagued her thoughts so bad she’d need to escape her mind.

“I’ve been like the people we aid longer than I’ve been a dragon rider.” His shock from her answering the question couldn’t be concealed but she barely looked at him as she confessed her plight, he could only listen.

“They drop like flies, while I’m hunting the largest dragon alive, it doesn’t seem likely that I survive it.”

Her confession felt like someone had slapped him, she was almost mouse like now, quite in the space she held, dimming her own light, allowing the darkness to shine.

“I promised you..” He began forming some response, some sense of understanding in what she said, a comfort he’d given himself at the thought of her in danger, in that situation.

“ Yesterday, men clung to me begging for their lives to end, fathers and sons alike. Bigger and stronger than I’ve ever been. Terrified and dying because of the only thing that makes them not like me.”

Her voice was distorted with the anger and sadness that possessed her, he couldn’t remember the last time someone had been so open with him.

He’d give her whatever he could. He was never more sure that she’d never fight Vhagar.

“It was too much , all at once but I’m fine now.” He hadn’t hidden his demeanor, the divisive anger that guided his action. He had just wed at her age, she had a lifetime ahead of her, like Jace and Luke, like Viserys. She had children, chaos and adventures , written in her spirit.

It seemed a cruelty for her to doubt it.

“I meant my promise to you, Netty.”

He stared at her, catching her fallen gaze before it met his, staring past her, if she could trust him, even for a moment now, all would be well worth it.

“You’ll have a lifetime for yourself, I swear on Caraxes.”

 She chuckled at the implication, seeing it as no more than a false comfort to pull her out of her doubt. She probably had a lifetime of promises from men just like him. He had never meant anything more though, he could feel the promise seal into his very bones.

“It is all well now, Daemon. No need to drag Caraxes into nightmares.” She was joking, he felt as though he’d gotten too serious now. She’d retract the new position she held him in if he pushed anymore, he’d settle for her contentment now. His plan seemed to settle more together than ever now.

“Very well.” He stated as she sat down next to him. He informed her about their mission to Pink Maiden, then to track where he might go from there to try to ambush him. She was quiet for the rest of the conversation.

They ate in his room that night, a simple meal of Acorn soup , with small conversation about packing between them. He felt almost mad looking for a difference in her demeanor with him, waiting to see if the confession had changed anything between them, with a resounding no by the end. She was content with it between them and moving along as though it hadn’t existed at all. He felt trapped in a desert with no water around him as they finished.

She wished him a good night and closed the door behind her shortly after the meal. He was a deranged man he thought. The thoughts left him half mad, devouring him until he had to put it away.

Tomorrow would be a new day for him hopefully.

[blue-mint-winter]

Musings about the timeline of deaths and speed of the travelling news (in F&B)

After the betrayal of Hugh Hammer and Ulf the White in Tumbleton, the events of the Dance of the Dragons seem to follow in quick succession. However, it was surprising to learn that 5 months passed between Daemon's death on 22nd May and Rhaenyra's death on 22nd October 130 AC.

I'll try to put the events in order:

The First Battle of Tumbleton and the Betrayal.

Rhaenyra orders Addam's arrest and Nettles' execution, Addam escapes, Corlys is imprisoned, grandmaester Gerardys is sent to Dragonstone.

Lord Mooton receives his orders, maester Norren tells Daemon, next morning Daemon goes to Harrenhal, 14 days later fights with Aemond in the battle of the God's Eye and dies on 22nd May - that means Rhaenyra's orders arrived in Maidenpool on 7th May.

Attempt to rescue Corlys, hanging of the 2 rescuers, on the same day after sunset Helaena dies after half a year of captivity - so it's at least in June? The six months could be a maester's exaggeration.

The rumour about Helaena's murder causes a riot so it must be within a few days of her death if not the very next day.

Next day after riots Rhaenyra learns about Maidenpool disobeying her, Nettles escaping and Daemon's "betrayal", then storming of the Dragonpit happens on that night.

Rhaenyra leaves King's Landing at dawn, ser Perkin installs king Trystane, the beginning of the Moon of 3 Kings, Larys is back in court, Orwyle and Corlys are freed.

News about unrest in King's Landing reach Tumbleton.

Belated news about Aemond's death reach Tumbleton, Hugh Hammer wants to be a king.

Next day: Hugh wears a crown, kills Roger Corne, the Caltrops plot in the night to kill Hugh and Ulf.

2 days later, in the night - Second Battle of Tumbleton, Addam Velaryon attacks with a Riverlands army that he gathered.

Next morning after battle Ulf declares that he'll be king.

Next day Hobert Hightower poisons Ulf and himself.

Rhaenyra is on the road for unspecified amount of time, but she's turned away at Rosby, stays for one night at Stokeworth.

Rhaenyra stays in Duskendale for unspecified amount of time, on the condition that it won't be long, manages to send 3 ravens to Dragonstone but gets no reply from Gerardys, because Aegon II took over there - it's safe to assume that only happened after she left King's Landing. During her stay in Duskendale Rhaenyra sends ravens to Cregan Stark and Jeyne Arryn and gets their replies, then lady Darklyn asks her to leave because she overstayed her welcome.

Rhaenyra goes to Dragonstone and dies on 22nd October, Aegon II sends ravens to lords.

Sunfyre dies on 9th December, Aegon II almost executes Baela.

Borros Baratheon takes King's Landing after hearing about Rhaenyra's death, ending the Moon of 3 Kings.

Aegon II returns to King's Landing in the last days of the year (around 22nd December).

The fact that Rhaenyra on the Last Day in King's Landing received news about Daemon's "betrayal" but not about his death makes me think that this was still before the Battle of God's Eye. Obviously lord Mooton wouldn't inform her that he turned cloak, so someone else on her side had to uncover this. Too bad that it's not said if Rhaenyra got the information from one of her loyal lords by raven or if an informant travelled all the way to King's Landing to tell her what happened. It's likely that one of Black loyalists in Maidenpool, who didn't know why lord Mooton turned cloak, went to inform Rhaenyra.

Even looking at the map and how roads are laid out, if the courier is sent from Maidenpool, he has 2 options - turn west and go by Kingsroad or turn east towards Duskendale and take the road from there. Information between Tumbleton and King's Landing probably also goes by road, because Greens aren't sending ravens.

Map from Atlas of Ice and Fire

The thing is that Greens in Tumbleton got news about battle of the God's Eye after they heard about riots in King's Landing. Tumbleton is southwest of King's Landing and further away from Harrenhal than the capital. It would make sense for Rhaenyra to get the news about Daemon's death before the Greens, but she didn't. It must be because she'd left the city before the news came.

The news about the battle of the God's Eye must have reached King's Landing first before it belatedly reached Tumbleton. Harrenhal doesn't have a maester to send a raven and Alys wasn't in a hurry to tell anyone what happened, also Riverlanders hate Aemond so there's no one who would rush to inform the Greens about his death. That's why the information spread more slowly and the news from Harrenhal came so late to Tumbleton. It's possible that it first came late to King's Landing and then Larys and/or Orwyle sent a quick message to Tumbleton. Or they got the information in a normal time then kept it from Tumbleton and the ambitious Betrayers. They could have wanted to stall to give time to Aegon II and Sunfyre to recover to a fighting condition.

It is rather frustrating that it's unknown how much time passed between Tumbleton learning about the riots and about Aemond's death. The book gives the impression that it wasn't that long.

As word of the unrest at King’s Landing reached Prince Daeron’s host, many younger lords grew anxious to advance upon the city at once. Chief amongst them were Ser Jon Roxton, Ser Roger Corne, and Lord Unwin Peake…but Ser Hobert Hightower counseled caution, and the Two Betrayers refused to join any attack unless their own demands were met. Ulf White, it will be recalled, wished to be granted the great castle of Highgarden with all its lands and incomes, whilst Hard Hugh Hammer desired nothing less than a crown for himself. These conflicts came to a boil when Tumbleton learned belatedly of Aemond Targaryen’s death at Harrenhal. 

Hugh openly wanted the crown even when he thought Aemond was still alive? Lol. One thing is for sure, the news of Aemond and Daemon killing each other must have been like an early Christmas present for him. He became the one with the largest dragon.

The Green army could have gone to King's Landing even without Hugh and Ulf. There were no dragons defending the city and they had Daeron's Tessarion. I guess Hobert was cautious because to his knowledge Daemon was still at large and he could take down Tessarion, so the Greens still needed to keep Hugh and Ulf around to fight him. But even with that, if the other lords were so impatient to march, Hobert couldn't hold them back for very long. After the news about Aemond's death, the events started moving very quickly. The Second Battle of Tumbleton happened only 3 days later.

Theories about symbolic timing of deaths

I was thinking if it was possible for Rhaenyra to die on the same day as Daemon. It would have been immensely tragic - Daemon sacrificing himself to kill Aemond, thinking this will protect Rhaenyra, unaware that at the same time she's killed by Aegon on Dragonstone while she's thinking that Daemon betrayed her for Nettles. That's incredibly tragic and angsty.

However, looking at the timeline, it's impossible for them to die on the same day because of Rhaenyra exchanging messages with the North and the Vale when she's in Duskendale. Ravens aren't that fast, so I'd give it a month for her to send letters and receive replies.

Also, Addam Velaryon needed time to gather Riverlands army and go with it to Tumbleton. It had to be after Aemond's death, because otherwise Aemond would have stopped the army.

It could be interesting and more plausible if Daemon's death and the storming of Dragonpit happened on the same day. Last day of Rhaenyra's reign in capital is the same day her husband and protector dies. It's possible as it gives 14 days for the news about Daemon and Nettles to travel from Maidenpool to King's Landing. That should be enough time. I just think that waiting until June would have been too suspicious. Lord Mooton received Rhaenyra's orders on 7th May, there is a time limit of how long Rhaenyra can wait for his reply as Maidenpool isn't that far away. Especially damning should be that Daemon didn't return on dragonback within a day or two.

Knowing just how honorable lord Mooton was, I doubt he sent a false message to Rhaenyra after he openly turned cloak and changed his banners. I think he just went radio silent and didn't send anything. The longer Daemon didn't come back and there were no ravens from Maidenpool, the more suspicious it must have looked to Rhaenyra. If it went on too long, it would look like a confirmation of betrayal. Not to mention she could send ravens to Rook's Rest or someone else closer to Maidenpool to ask them to check what's going on there and why they aren't replying. She couldn't rule out Aemond killing Daemon and burning the city.

Helaena dying after half a year in captivity which kickstarts the riots would place her death sometime in June, probably the second half. Could Rhaenyra really wait over a month for information about Maidenpool without suspecting anything? She reacted with rage to the news, so she wasn't expecting the betrayal. That leads me to believe that not enough time passed to make the lack of contact suspicious to her.

This makes the timing of Helaena's death slightly off. I think it was earlier than June and she wasn't a captive for full 6 months. I could accept if it was around 1st June, because then if she killed herself because Mysaria told her about Maelor's death, it would be on Children's Day and that makes it even more cruel and tragic.

Unspecified time in Duskendale

One thing I'm rather annoyed with is that the Moon of 3 Kings lasts around 3-4 months. Another is Rhaenyra staying so long in Duskendale. Even if travelling there took longer than usual, it's just not that far from the capital, so I'd give it maximum 2 weeks on the road. That would mean that she were in Duskendale for months, which was a time she could have used to travel to the Riverlands or the Vale and her more accommodating allies. As I said, communicating by raven with the North and the Vale could take her around a month, so after that why would she stay even longer in Duskendale doing nothing before she takes a ship to Dragonstone?

Rhaenyra stayed in limbo because the author arbitrarily decided that Aegon can retake the throne only in the end of the year. I'd say moving those events earlier seems better in this case. Tumbleton could happen soon after the riots in June, then Rhaenyra dies in July and Aegon II comes back to King's Landing in August. It doesn't collide with anything else and eliminates the awkward sitting around in Duskendale for months.

.

Thanks for reading, as always I'm open to more discussions. Timelines are rather fuzzy in ASOIAF, so it can be a source of endless speculation :)

Next post will be about Mysaria and Nettles situation.

[loksthegreat]

Will you do the rest of Elaena’s children? Thank you!

Yes of course! Here’s the next few:

In 595 AC, one year after Alysanne V, Elaena gave birth to her second son, Daemion I, a boy who took after his father in looks strongly and became heir to Driftmark after Elaenas mother on his fifth name day. Daemion was a quite and serious boy and had been engaged to his Velaryon cousin, Lady Alanna for nearly all his life duo to the close friendship between their mothers. Daemion however had no interest in girls or even knightly activities, his love laid with his dragon, a large dark blue creature that he would spend any walking hour on, if allowed to. Elaena could not bear to send him away to be fostered at Drifmark, so instead his great grandfather taught him how to sail in the harbor of kings landing. His betrothed came to live at the red keep when Daemion was 14 and all though he dutifully spend time with her, there just wasn’t a spark. Instead they parted ways after their wedding, Alanna returned to driftmark and Daemion spend his time either traveling across the narrow sea by boat or dragon, or at court where he served as lord admiral to his brother, long before he even inherited the driftwood throne.

A year after Daemion princess Shaera II is born. She does posses classic Targaryen features but is very skinny and long limped, with wide set eyes and a long pointy face, which leads to her being mocked for her spider like appearance and awkward movements often. Shaera could read and write exceptionally well, but her face very very rarely showed any emotions and she did not voice her thoughts or struggles to other, which led to her being considered low of intelligent by her septa’s. Shaera was taller than most men and seldomly spoke, making her a hard match to make. Much like with Alysanne, Elaena was desperate to find a good and gentle husband for the girl, although Shaera might not have minded the silent sisters all that much. At nineteen Shaera married Robert Redwyne the young lord of the Arbor, who had travel all around Westeros by boat and only seen one portrait of the princess before agreeing to wed her. Shaera had only one daughter, but her mother was happy to see that Shaera would now occasionally smile, whenever her mother visited her.

Princess Alayne was born in 598 AC, she was named after the queens close friend and lady in waiting, Alayne Massey, and though small of stand and prone to bad luck, Alayne was the wildest of the queens daughters by far. Her father, king Rhaegar I, would take her dragon riding and taught her to use a bow as well as a sword. As a girl of 12 he took her along with him to tour the Riverlands, where his murder of Lord Blackwoods eldest son caused an up roar. In the midst of the ensuing rebellions, Alayne disappeared, she spend a good 4 years living in the wild, in enemy camps or in castles, disguised as a boy, with her hair dyed black. It was during these years that the 14 year old princess was thrown into a bear arena, (a common practice of entertainment among northerners at war) where she suffered a claw mark to the left cheek, before being rescued by her fathers dishonored knight, Ser Norren, who killed the bear and spend the next year trying to drag the girl back to her mothers court. Eventually Alayne married Lord Arin Baratheon, a man ten years her senior at 18, by her own choice. She became known as ‘the she-hound of the Stormlands’.

Prince Aeron I was the third son born in 599 AC, he was a smart boy and he and Rhaegar II had been inseparable in their youth, but when he turned 18 he expressed his wish to got to the citadel and become an arch maester, he did just that and the men of the citadel prophesied him a bright future until in the year 619 AC Aeron visited a Tourney at Harrenhal and meets Lady Sabitha Tully, who he falls deeply in love with. She is smart, honest and capable and they exchange frequent letters for the following year, only falling deeper in love, but Sabitha is betrothed to the heir of house Bracken, Ser Jorrik, who is frankly, a terrifying dude. So just a few months before the wedding, Aeron takes his dragon and goes and marries Sabitha, leaving her father and the Brackens enraged. They leave for kings landing, Aeron becomes hand of the king to his brother eventually and Sabitha becomes a great politician. Aeron does a terrific job at keeping the realm together during the chaos that is Rhaegar II ascension and funfact: a lot of boys are named after him. He also kills Jorrik Bracken in a duel at some point sooo…

Hope you enjoy this and as always I’m up for any more questions you might have!!!

(I’ll post the next four kids as soon as possible!)

[horizon-verizon]

▪︎Mastre Norren, present in Harrenhal, tells us that Daemon was crazy about Nettles, as a man would be about his daughter.

▪︎Nettles was 17 years old, the same age as Baela and Rhaena, Daemon's own daughters.

▪︎Daemon affectionately nicknamed Nettles: Nettie.

▪︎Mushroom, dwarf of the court of Rhaenyra, known for his unreliable, often sexual and where sordid testimonies, is the very first source to declare that Daemon would have fallen in love with Nettles and would have taken her as a lover, when he did not wasn't even present at Harrenhal.

▪︎4 / 5 other sources also maintain that Nettles & Daemon were lovers, these written after Mushroom's testimony, therefore relying on the latter as well as other rumors, having in fact not been present either Harrenhal.

▪︎Glyadyn meanwhile, the maester who wrote Fire and Blood, supports Mushroom's version as the most likely to change his habit. Except that Glyadyn writes the book at least 1 century later, when all the characters of the dance are nothing more than dust, therefore not having even attended the events, based on biased testimonies of 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th hand . Without forgetting that Glyadyn is a maester, not very "for" the Targaryens in general (like most maesters) a pure product of his time, himself a misogine with his own prejudices which would necessarily lead him to lean more towards the simple history of lovers, even if, as the book says, there is no concrete proof of this. The only thing we can be sure of between Nettles and Daemon is that they spent their days hunting down Aemond on Rhaenyra's behalf.

Some people: Let's conveniently ignore those CRUCIAL elements and information of this relationship, and that completely changes the context of the interactions/relationship between the two characters! It doesn't matter that all the sources recounting Nettles and Daemon as lovers have in fact never seen them interact, relying mainly on word of mouth, and that the only maester who has actually seen them interact supports a platonic relationship! He is necessarily the one who is wrong since he is the only one to say it!

Sorry, but that Daemon:

▪︎taught Nettles how to eat, stand, and dress properly.

▪︎gave Nettles gifts: A hairbrush, mirror, coat and boots.

▪︎had adjoining rooms with Nettles.

▪︎ always had dinner and lunch with Nettles.

▪︎would be able to go after the people of Harrenhal if Nettles was ever killed.

▪︎loses his smile/joy reading Nettles' execution letter.

▪︎chooses to go against Rhaenyra's order to free Nettles.

▪︎ sees his emotions expressed through the cries of Caraxes when Nettles leaves.

Absolutely NONE of these things basically indicate a relationship of a romantic and/or sexual nature. All of this can easily pass within the framework of an affectionate platonic father & daughter / mentor & student relationship. Some Daemon reactions may not even be completely related / relate to Nettles, such as the reactions to the letter and the shouting of Caraxes.

The only things that can really look suspicious, to our modern eyes, are possibly already; the baths and the possible bed sharing, which is actually not even safe. However, you and many others had dealt with these aspects in depth. I will just say that for the baths, they are described in a learning context, where Daemon teaches Nettles, a girl who has always lived alone in the street, with no one to really educate her, how to wash properly/have a healthy lifestyle. It's the people who romanticize and or sexualize the baths, because the text itself never does that. And yes, platonic baths, it fucking exists, no offense to some who think they are smarter by claiming the opposite. Nudity = sex is a concept that bothers me so much...

I didn't even know Nettles & Daemon was a thing until I came to tumblr to say. Never when reading the book did I interpret them as lovers and I'm amazed at how many people do?! How is that even possible?! It seems to be totally at odds with the way GRRM writes their romances, especially because of the specific age difference between the characters. Some even say that Daemon was living out his fantasy with Nettles, leaving Rhaenyra to fend for herself, which is essentially untrue. Where the hell is this bullshit coming from too?

I think the ASOIAF fandom is one of the worst I've seen. The Sansa, Arya and Daenerys stuff alone is crazy, but the Fire and Blood character takes are even worse!The stuff I saw on Aemond?! Enough to make me nauseous for weeks.

Overall I only liked the series for Daemyra (although I hated episode 10) and sometimes Viserys. The rest was crap. Alicent, one of my favorite villains ever was ruined and I'm not even talking about the rest of the adaptation massacre, of certain sets and especially the fucking costumes.

I agree with you anon. And relate. I also didn’t even know people shipped them or even thought they could have had sex until I created a Tumblr account back in Oct ‘22.

And I argued/proved against DaemonxNettles through these posts:

Execution Letter/Sleeping Patterns/the Persons Deciding What to Do w/D and N after the Letter

Credibility of Gyldayn, Nettles, the Maidservants, and Readers Looking back at the “Lessons” Mushrooms says Daemon gave Rhaenyra

On Oberyn Martell being a Credible Source

The Strangeness of Shipping DaemonxNEttles to Spite Daemyra/Rhaenyra/Targs (la-pheacienne)

It is both Misogynist and Hypocritical of DxN shippers/green stans to Believe in DaemonxNettles

An example of a green stan/DaemonxNettles shipper shooting themsleves in the Logical foot

One correction: Norren and the lord he works for are at Maidenpool, east of Harrenhal. Daemon and Nettles were at Maidenpool, not Harrenhal.

[ride-thedragon]

Just figuring this out, but Lord Mooton just had to keep choosing Treason for the benefit of his house over and over again.

I don't like how much of a justification ' the girl is a child no matter how foul her treason.' is carrying in this assumption, but they knew what was going on.

They, at any point in time could've been like " hey Queen, your husband is messing with another girl" but then they'd lose the inherent protection against Aemond and Vhagar that Nettles and Daemon have ensured but failed to establish for months.

So it's this constant reliance on what's best for the house and what's best for their queen, and because they are smart people, they choose themselves, men have paramours in this world all the time.

Then, the queen demands the head of his paramour. They know she is right in some of her suspicions. However, she isn't demanding a fair trial for this girl. She wants them to kill this girl and for her husband to return, but the girl is innocent until she stands for trial. Like what the old king did and would ask of them in a similar place.

Like what Jaehaerys did for his daughter, basically. Which again is circle justification with an underlying misogyny, but it works in their favor.

So their choice again is to be loyal to Rhaenyra and follow her orders, something they all conclude would end with Daemon's wroth towards them or what Maester Norren suggests, which is make it Daemon's choice. Which is again treason but self-preservation.

In two weeks, they are no longer supporting treason, the relationship issue is sorted, and Daemon and Vhagar are gone. They change their banners after the threat of Vhagar is gone based on the beliefs that lead them out of the mess.

It's not a big part of the story by any means, but even in such small characters, George shows how politically savvy the Mooton's are and teaches a good lesson in how to play the game.

Men, Maesters, and Knights preserving their house>>>>.

[stromuprisahat]

... Prince Daemon departed Maidenpool for the last time. When he had gone, Maester Norren went to his lord to say, “Take the chain from my neck and bind my hands with it. You must need deliver me the queen. When I gave warning to a traitor and allowed her to escape, I became a traitor as well.” Lord Mooton refused. “Keep your chain,” his lordship said. “We are all traitors here.” And that night, Queen Rhaenyra’s quartered banners were taken down from where they flew above the gates of Maidenpool, and the golden dragons of King Aegon II raised in their stead.

The Princess and the Queen & Fire and Blood (George R. R. Martin)

Did they get the banners alongside Aegon's letter?

Did they have them stored somewhere just in case?

Did they sew them that night?

Where did they get the cloth of the proper colour?

[the-rogue-dragon]

I'm not too good at goodbyes | Accepting | @merelaes sent;

Goodbye

According to Maester Gyldayn, this letter was found at Maidenpool, by Maester Norren, it is unclear if the letter describes a romantic story between Prince Daemon and his nephew Prince Aemond, or not.

Or how our historical peeps call it "and they were roommates."

Ñuha zaldrīzes dārilaros;

It seems far-fetched that you will be able to find this letter, for I do not believe you will descend upon Maidenpool, but if you do, I hope you find it before or after the deed is done. I know I must fight you though in truth I never wanted to. But the Gods have been cruel to our family and crueler to us.

What have we done to ourselves? How did we allow this to happen? It seems pointless to sit and ponder over the things we have done, the decisions we made, and what consequences it brought. Now, as I write this, I’m not sure if I could look at you the same way as I did before, nor I believe you would be able to look at me the same way either.

We lost ourselves to duty, we gave each other to Queens and Kings, like rooks on a chess game. It is said, by those who know, that when two rooks fight each other it ends in a draw. Must that be our fate? Kill each other then… in all honestly if I die with you perhaps then it won’t be so bad to go.

I’m tired, this war had put on me more years than any fight before, for I lost so much… We lost so much. I’m tired, and old and I welcome my fate if it is to die by your hand. But don’t believe me fool, I will fight back, I won’t leave without fighting like you and Vhagar deserve to be fought, with honor, the same honor that waits for the coward and the brave.

Perhaps you will win, perhaps I will win, yet whatever happens I will not count it as a victory, for if I kill you, I will die with you as well. And if you kill me and read this letter, then know that I forgive you, and I hope you can find in you to forgive me.

We should have been in Essos, flying to the horizon together.

Daemon T.

[bohemian-nights]

In the end, the brown dragon was brought to heel by the cunning and persistence of a "small brown girl" of six-and-ten, who delivered him a freshly slaughtered sheep every morning, until Sheepstealer learned to accept and expect her. Munkun sets down the name of this unlikely dragonrider as Nettles. Mushroom tells us the girl was a bastard of uncertain birth called Netty, born to a dockside whore. By any name, she was black-haired, brown-eyed, brown-skinned, skinny, foul-mouthed, fearless.. and the first and last rider of the dragon Sheepstealer.

The girl Nettles did not share their celebrations. She had flown with the others, fought as bravely, burned and killed as they had, but her face was black with smoke and streaked with tears when she returned to Dragonstone.

Yet was fear of Vhagar the only reason Prince Daemon kept Nettles close to him? Mushroom would have us believe it was not. By the dwarfs account, Daemon Targaryen had come to love the small brown bastard girl, and had taken her into his bed.

Nor could Netty truly be called pretty. "A skinny brown girl on a skinny brown dragon," writes Munkun in his True Telling (though he never saw her). Septon Eustace says her teeth were crooked, her nose scarred where it had once been slit for thieving. Hardly a likely paramour for a prince, one would think.

Maester Norren writes that "the prince and his bastard girl" supped together every night, broke their fast together every morning, slept in adjoining bedchambers, that the prince "doted upon the brown girl as a man might dote upon his daughter," instructing her in "common courtesies" and how to dress and sit and brush her hair, that he made gifts to her of "an ivory-handled hairbrush, a silvered looking glass, a cloak of rich brown velvet bordered in satin, a pair of riding boots of leather soft as butter." The prince taught the girl to wash, Norren says, and the maidservants who fetched their bath water said he oft shared a tub with her, "soaping her back or washing the dragon stink from her hair, both of them as naked as their namedays."

“As to the girl Nettles, She is a common thing, with the stink of sorcery upon her," the queen declared. "My prince would ne'er lay with such a low creature. You need only look at her to know she has no drop of dragon's blood in her. It was with spells that she bound a dragon to her, and she has done the same with my lord husband." So long as he was in the girl's thrall, Prince Daemon could not be relied upon, Her Grace went on. Therefore, let a command be sent at once to Maidenpool, but only for the eyes of Lord Mooton. "Let him take her at table or abed and strike her head off. Only then shall my prince be freed."

"It may be we shall be destroyed whatever choice we make. The prince is more than fond of this brown child, and his dragon is close at hand. A wise lord would kill them both, lest the prince burn Maidenpool in his wroth."

How the prince and his bastard girl spent their last night beneath Lord Mooton's roof is not recorded, but as dawn broke they appeared together in the yard, and Prince Daemon helped Nettles saddle Sheepstealer one last time. It was her custom to feed him each day before she flew; dragons bend easier to their rider's will when full. That morning she fed him a black ram, the largest in all Maidenpool, slitting the ram's throat herself. Her riding leathers were stained with blood when she mounted her dragon, Maester Norren records, and "her cheeks were stained with tears." No word of farewell was spoken betwixt man and maid, but as Sheepstealer beat his leathery brown wings and climbed into the dawn sky, Caraxes raised his head and gave a scream that shattered every window in Jonquil's Tower. High above the town, Nettles turned her dragon toward the Bay of Crabs, and vanished in the morning mists, never to be seen again at court or castle.

The singers tell us that the old prince survived the fall and afterward made his way back to the girl Nettles, to spend the remainder of his days at her side.

Sixteen men perished in the fight that followed, and threescore more suffered burns before the angry brown wyrm took wing and fled deeper into the mountains with "a ragged woman clinging to its back." That was the last known sighting of Sheepstealer and his rider, Nettles, recorded in the annals of Westeros...though the wildlings of the mountains still tell tales of a "fire witch" who once dwelled in a hidden vale far from any road or village. One of the most savage of the mountain clan came to worship her, the storytellers say; youths would prove their courage by bringing gifts to her, and were only accounted men when they returned with burns to show that they had faced the dragon woman in her lair.

-Fire & Blood 🔥🐉