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the-analytical-bostie · 9 months ago

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I honestly don’t understand the whole “it’s just a joke”, “that’s how guys talk” like no?

First of all that’s a lame fucking excuse for his behavior. Just because you’re a fan doesn’t mean you have to protect every fucked up thing he says.

Let’s be honest non of us know them personally, we see what’s online and hear what’s said. So pretending like you know them, saying “he’s a good guy” and defending him like you do is embarrassing.

I use to be a fan of Misha. Well, more like I use to respect him as an actor and I enjoyed him in SPN. This year I had the privilege to meet him at a con. I say privilege because I know that many can’t afford to or haven’t had the opportunity.

It was so awkward, he clearly didn’t want to be there. Everything he said during his q&a catered to the audience. It was over all very fake, I still can’t understand how people feed into the stuff he says.

It really put a bad taste in my mouth. I’ve never been his biggest fan, just thought that it would be fun to meet someone, from the tv show the show I’ve loved for years. That being said if I could go back, I’d save my money instead of wasting it.

I’m not saying he wasn’t nice to me, I did have a longer interaction than others that had been in line. But as someone who hasn’t ever been an obsessive fan, I think it might have been easier not feeding into all the crap he says.

People forget that he gets paid to do this stuff. The reason why he’s a fan favorite is because of destiel. So ofc he’s going to milk it, since that’s the only thing he has to talk about.

All the questions were destiel related, he has nothing else to say about the show. Honestly I don’t think he remembers anything that happened in the show, except from all of the scenes where he can confirm that destiel is canon.

Anyway after that con I watched a few videos of other panels online, because Jensen and Jared didn’t attend the one I went to. And I have to say I agree with a lot of the things you’ve posted.

It’s clear that he tries hard to push Jared out of the picture, he forces this idea of being besties with Jensen at cons. It’s always so awkward watching them together. Most of the time Jensen just goes along with stuff Misha says, so he doesn’t have to answer the same questions about destiel being canon or not.

Jensen obviously takes his acting seriously, he played Dean for 15 years. So I don’t get when he says over and over again, that destiel isn’t a thing. That people can’t accept it and move on. I love Dean, but I’m not going to pretend I know him better than Jensen. He WAS Dean. He knows him inside and out.

Then we have Misha that eggs the fans on during these panels. It’s like Jensen tries to answer the question seriously. Then Misha swoops in makes a small joke out of it, like Jensen has no idea what he’s talking about and proceeds to talk over him. Giving them the answer they want to hear.

It even feels like he’s making fun of the fans at times, knowing that they feed into this crap and thinking it’s funny that they do.

Gives me the same vibes of Regina George saying “I love that bracelet where did you get it”. Then going back to the green room and making fun of it.

I mean he’s made fun of the show and fans before, there are literally videos or posts online.

ALSO!!! The whole thing Jensen said about it not being subtext it was clear text, has been so fucking twisted.

This has turned into more of a rant, sorry. But what I mean to say is I agree with a lot of the things you’ve said. I just don’t understand how people can’t see it? It’s so frustrating.

I don’t hate Misha, it just really really fucking bugs me, that people don’t see what he’s doing. I just don’t get that you, like others who point it out get attacked.

People go on and on about how hateful others are, then proceed to bully people online for pointing shit out? Make that make sense.

Hi Anon! Saw your other message, and yeah, I don't blame you there, but you are good, so here we go. Thank you for the message btw. Very refreshing after my last few that's for sure.

I will start by saying that I have never seen a group of people so willing to turn a blind eye to the numerous inappropriate things their fave does/says as the hellers/Misha Stans. Their mantra in life is "oh, it was just a joke". I mean, they have to say it constantly because Misha can't stop being inappropriate. He kinda has to though doesn't he? Otherwise, he couldn't keep them entertained and he'd float on off into obscurity.

Unfortunately, that requires the use of Jared and Jensen's names.

I'll start with Jensen just because I happen to already have a link ready.

So, with Jensen, he's going to play that Destiel/Cockles card as much as he possibly can. Always has, always will. Jensen has always said that Destiel doesn't exist. (Thanks to @Sammyiscat on X for posting this today, just when I needed it!)

Once upon a time, Jensen did do a little fan service and lean into it slightly during JenMish panels. However, he always made it as clear as possible how he really feels. Then the hellers called him homophobic for it. So earlier this year, as you mentioned, he called it "clear text" not subtext. He tried to be as diplomatic as possible. The unfortunate part of being diplomatic is that it allowed the hellers to twist themselves into pretzels making it sound like Jensen said the opposite of what he actually was saying.

What I find the most interesting is that in the last few years, Misha is on his best behavior around Jensen. He only runs his mouth off when Jensen isn't around. Usually when he's at a European con alone. I'd LOVE to know how that transpired. Jensen is also usually in a pretty bad mood leading up to a JenMish panel these days as well. He was surprisingly ok in Charlotte (except for that one damn question). However, let's look back on San Francisco. Remember when he ran from Misha trying to hug him?

That is the definition of an unhappy Jensen....Yet hellers, CANNOT SEE IT! How can they not see that? Anyways...I could go on and on here....

So let's move on to Jared...

Sweet silly Jared. How anyone could be mean to him I'll never know. Something has changed there too. There was a lot more joking from Misha where Jared is concerned once up a time. Now, everything Misha says about his sounds bitter and or malicious.

He loves to point out that Jared was discovered just walking down the street, or that he has no training or that he didn't go to college.

Then there was the airplane story from last month in DC. It was partially true, but heavily embellished to make Jared sound bad, and what happens every time that happens? Tons of hate descends onto Jared online. People telling him to kill himself. Just pure bullying and hate. Misha HAS to know that is what would happen.

Just this past weekend he mocked him: (Ignore the person who tweeted this. You don't want to go down that route)

What an asshole. I mean really. I know, I know hellers, "oh, it's just a joke" right? Let's not start the "you and your friends have no sense of humor" crap again.

As far as con experiences go? I've heard people say many times that they have had negative experiences meeting Misha. Unless you are known to him already he couldn't care less. Been there, done that, can confirm. Like I said in another post, glad I already didn't like him because I sure wouldn't now!

Edited to add another link of Jensen denying Destiel.

#anti misha #anti hellers

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angel-fruitcake · 7 months ago

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what are your thoughts about castiel’s overall characterization throughout the series? I often see people say they made him a “joke” the longer the show went on and that they don’t like how they made him less menacing than he was when first introduced

tbh as the show progressed, i believe that the writers slowly but surely forgot how to utilize Castiel as a character. some people might disagree with me about this, but imo the only one who actually even came close to realizing Cas' potential was Kripke, and that was partially bc he created him. spn honest to god struck gold, not just with angels in general, but with Cas, and Kripke recognized that almost immediately from the fan response to him. Cas was introduced in season 4 as a minor character, and by season 5, he had already earned his spot as one of 3 leads.

once Kripke peaced out, it took exactly one (1) season before the writers were already trying to throw Cas away like fuckin garbage, despite him being a fan favorite. but once they realized that that decision would quite literally get the whole series cancelled, they were forced to bring him back. that whole situation is proof to me that many of the writers, at least at that point, simply did not understand what they held in their hands (something something you don't know whatcha got til it's gone).

once they stopped trying to get rid of him, i think one of the things that irritated me the most was how much they depowered Cas at just about every corner. so yeah, i'm in the same boat as a lot of people with that. but i also understand that leaving Cas at full angel power would've allowed him to solve pretty much any problem the Winchesters had, so they couldn't exactly do that either without the story becoming too boring. i acknowledge that they were in a bit of a tough spot as far as that went.

but even still, i feel like there was a happy medium that was overlooked. Castiel had so many really cool and interesting aspects as a character that were under-appreciated or not fully explored. for example, Cas theoretically knew every language ever created, yet we never saw him speak anything other than english or enochian (he didn't even sign with Eileen!). the most he ever did was translate some texts from other languages to english, which is just not the same. i would've also loved to know more about Castiel's true form. they gave us the tiniest hint of what Zachariah's looked like (six wings and four faces, one of which being a lion), but all we ever really got for Cas was his skyscraper height (although i will admit to the beauty of his true form being left mostly up to fan imagination). it just felt like post season 5, the writers' idea of angels in general devolved into a more stereotypical concept, rather than the terrifying biblical version during the Kripke era.

i could go on and on about Castiel; he holds a very special place in my heart. while i do love how gentle and domesticated he became in the later seasons, i still think overall he was dreadfully under-utilized and mishandled as a character. but i wouldn't necessarily say they turned him into a "joke" over the years. i just don't think the writers truly understood how much potential he had, therefore he was misrepresented (and kinda mistreated) time and time again.

#sorry this is so long #i have many thoughts and feelings about my baby #castiel #spn #supernatural #anon #asks #emily yaps

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scoobydoodean · 10 months ago

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Not asking you to speculate, but it seems to be REALLY funny to me that Wincesties try to insist that Sam is "gay" and Dean is "straight." It's about cutting off connections. Canon-Sam has no major male love interests, so there are no "male rivals" to entertain. Gay Sam feels safe. And since Canon-Dean has quite a few male love interests, some of them long-running, they need there to NOT be any "male rivals." A straight Dean is a safe Dean for them, too.

I think this is very true for some of them. In my experience, a good 90% of wincest shippers are samgirls. Some of them care about Dean a lot, but many of them do not actually care about Dean at all except as a brainless robot whose only function should be to shower Sam with praise and love and treat Sam as the center of his universe. Within this framework, they see any connection Dean might have to another person (another man or not) besides Sam as a threat to Sam's throne. Like straight up a bronly crawled into my notifs once on a simple post about Dean and Cas's care for one another because the idea of Dean and Cas caring about each other made them feel threatened, and the proceeded to to try and tell me Dean didn't care about Cas and that Dean is just "the little black dress" of the SPN fandom who Sam gets to wear in the end. I.e., Dean is nothing more than an accessory to many samgirls of the bronly persuasion—a status symbol.

On the other hand, there are other samgirls who openly despise Dean and have an interest in claiming that Sam is queer and Dean is the straightest straight to ever straight because they equate queerness with being special—and even in some strange way—being the most moral. They see it as a status symbol. This is also why they're obsessed with the idea of woman-coded Sam. They see simply being a woman as inherently more morally righteous. This is also why they engage in voter fraud. Cheating to win a poll means you actually won nothing, but there is still value in cheating to win for some Sam fans because they care so deeply about appearances. Queer Sam is not an actual passion for them it's just set dressing, but that set dressing matters to them desperately.

NOTE: I think there's room to complain here that many destiel shippers perceive Sam as super straight and Dean as queer, and to also apply underlying jealousy to that, but in the end, I just think the text lends itself to queer Dean better than it does queer Sam and that's just the damn truth. A lot of this is for pretty simple reasons, like the fact that Dean forms close bonds with other men in the canon of the show (Cas, Benny, Crowley, etc) whereas Sam tends to hold back on forming close relationships with anyone outside of Dean (until Eileen and Rowena) as a defense mechanism. This creates less opportunity for fans to explore Sam's connections with other men and become invested in those relationships. Another factor is (in the eyes of most fans) Jared's lack of romantic chemistry with other men. None of that means we can't construct compelling queer Sam readings, but I think it says something that the most obvious and compelling queer Sam reading I can think of is one Samgirls overwhelmingly reject—I think—because it codes his entire family as queer instead of just him, meaning he doesn't get to be the only one who's "special".

#mail

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autisticandroids · 8 months ago

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Seeing as you provide every interesting in depth spn analysis I'm probably coming to the wrong person for something so possibly surface level but I'm rewatching spn and would really love something to keep notes on, so is there any interesting phenomena in there you think would be worth keeping an eye on?

i received this, like, a month ago 🥴 sorry. anyway.

so, first of all. i'm flattered but i have also always been a little uncomfortable with the superlatives people attach to my name. the reason people think of me as some kind of spn scholar is a result of four factors, give or take: first, i make a lot of posts. in the year after november fifth i made something like five thousand posts. i know because i tag all my spn posts spn. and a lot of those posts were half a sentence! or an ask i answered with emojis! but it's still a lot of posts. the second reason is that i'm kind of a last man standing. a lot of the big name post-nov fifth destiel fandom crowd has kind of evaporated in search of newer, shinier things; my fascination was more enduring, so i still get the credit. the third reason has to do with like... i have slightly different tastes than the average spn fandom person and so the things i pay attention to are different and so my takes are unique. there were a lot of blogs that were bigger than me that people don't remember as much because their takes were more in line with conventional fanon (and therefore more similar to other people's and less memorable), whereas mine, because i have specific interests and am an incurable contrarian, were more unique and therefore people remembered who i was. fourth, and here we are down to the meat of the issue, i speak very authoritatively and use a lot of big words when i'm excited about something so people think i'm right.

i guess what i'm saying is don't take me so seriously.

now that my narcissism is out of the way, let's talk about themes in supernatural.

first of all, the thing about supernatural is that it has three hundred and twenty seven episodes organized into fifteen seasons, written by fifty three different writers supervised by four different showrunners and that's just the writing! that doesn't even mention directing, or acting, or producing... personally i like to say that i can feel when the story editor changes! so there really is... almost nothing you can get out of the whole show as a text that isn't incredibly broad and/or vague and/or boring. "they say family a lot" yeah they sure do. "it's a reactionary macho fantasy" like every other show from 2005. "they kill all the women" mmmmhm. like, basically every consistent element of spn as a story is a result of either classic genre cliches from the scifi or procedural or teenie bopper genres, very basic conclusions from the premise, or just the material nature of the behind the scenes of supernatural. they're going on a case instead of working on the main apocalypse of the season because this is a monster of the week show. cas has gone away again because they don't want to pay misha collins. quiet emotional scenes get dropped from the script because they don't serve the plot. and while there's some interesting things you can get out of these elements - one piece of analysis i've been thinking about a lot lately is this video about the mcu that argues that the classic serialized storytelling logic of constant escalation leads inherently to a fascist politics, and i think this point applies very well to supernatural - it only goes so far. it's interesting if you want to look at how the show exists in the wider politics of the real world. it's not that interesting if you want to sit with the show supernatural in its particular uniqueness.

so basically my recommendation, first of all, is to divide the show up into chunks. there are some obvious chunks - by season, by showrunner. most people do these. i would also recommend other methods, for example tying together some adjacent seasons. for example, even though season eleven is technically carver era and season twelve is technically dabb era, i would argue that seasons eleven and twelve have more in common in terms of tone and style than eleven has with 8/9/10 or twelve has with 13/14/15. seasons four, five, and six have a lot in common in terms of tone and themes that they don't share with seven or the first three. i would also recommend paying attention to the individual writers; their bodies of work will usually have more in common with themselves than with the episodes around them in terms of character, tone, and theme. for example, in season six, ben edlund creates a whole other arc about the angel civil war that he wants the season to have that exists only in his episodes, and none of the other writers really pick up what he's putting down so he's kind of left hanging. you can see all sorts of patterns like this if you sit down and look, and i would recommend doing that. maybe you can be the first guy to memorize all the directors and have Thoughts.

and then the next thing i would say is just... pick some themes you want to iterate on. so for example: one of my favorite themes to contemplate is a theme that season six almost has - dean believing that it is his job to protect ben and lisa, which justifies anything he might want to do to them, or anyone else.

----

man everything above that line is an ask i half answered then forgot about in july of 2023. i NEED to check my drafts more often

#spn #asks #anonymous

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thinemilkbag · 2 months ago

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HEYYYYY LEMME GET YO ATTENTION SUPERNATURAL FANS PLEAASSSEEE

Did… did I get your attention? Yippee!

Anyways, hi! Glad you want to at least check this post out :D. This is basically an advertisement for a discord server that I co-own with two other people! We are basically an hangout yet a role play server. We have an adult section. But let me show you and explain some stuff!

FIRST

You got the first area when you join the server, all the introductions, notifications and all. We have a section for system intros, we are a D.I.D and Singlet friendly server. We have pluralkit and if there is another bot you prefer for your system. We have an age verification only applies to get the nsfw section and adult section.

SECOND

We have all of the typical chats where people mainly hang out in. There is the adult hangout that i was mentioning earlier. However it is only access if you do the Age verification for it. We have a section as well where you can see what the mods do, or like talk/rant about. Stories are made, memes, small interactions. Even then you can react to the messages! We see it.

THIRRDDD

WE GOT A CATEGORY FOR JUST SPN TALK! QOTD(Question of the day) is like a channel that characters can answer. We are currently working on the world building, adding the information of the series, monsters, episodes, places and more. From there under we have our role play section, character submissions, wikis and the list of them. We also allow your own variations of monsters/creatures. We are very open about other ideas and such.

FORTH AND FINAL

Okay, last image i swear. This is all the available locations, not only that we have the alternative timelines and universe. So if you do get a character submitted and approved, go ham in these places, swear it is a lot of fun! Role plays are also dated according to the show! So you would know when the rp is taken place! Location would be debated, tbh it will be determined by the people you rp with!

FINALLY

I do hope you consider joining, it is pretty new and we accept those who are 15 and older! WE DON’T BITE SWEAR ON JACK— well god but, POINT BEING PLEASE JOIN <3

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fictionalcrisis · 2 months ago

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https://www.tumblr.com/fictionalcrisis/782057161640607744/okay-so-someone-called-me-out-for-agreeing-with?source=share

People in the fandom are fucking weird. They get angry if someone has a different opinion about a ship that doesn't even exist in the canon. Like... ship and let ship

Ikr??? Like, I stay out of fandom drama with every fiber of my being. Picking a fight over some fictional pair is something I grew out of like 12 years ago. I've been into numerous fandoms and never once someone got offended by me literally AGREEING with them?? Then to make things even more confusing, the op dmed me to delete my reblog and then proceeded to block me without any further text. I deleted the reblog right away anyway cause I've got better things to do and I simply don't care enough. It's just that, I was confused cause I never encountered something like this and it made me question whether people are still allowed to reblog a post with a simple opinion of their own or not. Maybe I'm a tumblr boomer at my ancient age of 26 kek.

Having said that, amazing people (like u) exist on this app and so far I've only interacted with them solely. (Guess I've been lucky!). I'm very new to spn fandom and your ask is making a lot of sense right now. (Thank you ❤️) This fandom has definitely got a side to is which I gotta avoid from now on.

#wincest #wtf is wrong with some y'all?#fannibals are amazing really #samdean #do better

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sillybruja · 1 year ago

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keep reading if you wanna know about the craziest liar and well known spn roleplayer I've met on tumblr

I will never forget being on tumblr from 2011 - 2015 and being in the supernatural role playing community. It was both one of the best, and worst experiences of my entire life. I role played as Dean Winchester (and actually my page is still up, and I might start up again) and had a fairly large following.

during 2011, the SPN rp community just started growing so I, among a few of my mun friends, were like the "It girls and guys". It's so insane to think about it now, 10+ years later. There were people out there who did not roleplay that would follow me, and reblog my threads just because they appreciated by writing ^.^ it was so sweet. Back to my memory lol.

Anyways, I made friends with a rper on here who ran a Castiel account. We very obviously shipped Dean & Cas, and so did a lot of people. People even shipped us xD we had a ship name and everything. This person became my best friend in real time.

I really really thought I knew this person. He told me everything, every part of his life, every heart break from some dumb guy, every accident he's ever made, etc. I saw him as not only a best friend but a brother.

around 2013, my life took a turn -- things got more serious for me, and I fell off from roleplaying for a bit, and we lost contact. I remember he just eventually stopped responding to my messages. This wasn't okay for me because before he ghosted me, he told me he was really sick. I was always worried that the last text I sent him was the last I'd ever hear from him.

Eventually he did respond to me, and I remember him saying, "I'm fine, I might just be gone for a while. It's not your fault" and that was that. Mind you, I was 10+ years younger, and I really felt devastated.

Several months later, I logged back onto my roleplaying account. I remember being spammed with asks and messages about him. One of our mutuals sent me a message saying he had passed away a month prior. She showed me the go fund me that was started for him to cover his funeral expenses. My heart was shattered.

The next year was spent of thinking about him almost every day. I felt so sorry that things ended the way they did, and that he was gone. I honestly felt grief that entire year.

In 2015, I get this intuitive 'nudge' to check my tumblr again. This time when I log in, I see appreciation posts about him, and all of those feelings come back. I remember trying to get back into rping in honor of him, and I remember coming across an account that seemed awfully familiar.

This was another castiel account, almost identical in text, aesthetic, vocabulary, even same psds. I just knew it was him. I can't tell you how, I just did. I remember thinking I was crazy and that this was grief... but, unfortunately, I was right.

Eventually, I gathered the nerve to reach out to this account. I cannot remember the name they gave me. But I talked to them, and I sort of played detective lol.

I deeply knew it was him and felt like it was so wrong that he lied about everything, had everyone upset, and took HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS from people who donated for his funeral.

One day, I was just tired of being nice. I approached him about it all. Of course he denied it. I badgered him about it though, and I even told him that what he is doing is illegal, and that he owes it to people who are mourning a very much alive person.

I didn't stop until he came forward.

He said, "I'm sorry, I had to do this to be with my boyfriend" and my jaw was on the freaking floor.

I told him to come forward, or I will have to do something about this.

Of course, he did not. Instead, he deleted his account. I tried to make a claim against him, but it was never looked into.

I will never forget that.

and if he's still out there, I hope he actually understands the weight of his actions. and I hope justice gets served.

#erys ramblings #this was crazy #i really got traumatized from this #supernatural #spn #spn rp #supernatural roleplay #roleplay #rpg #roleplayer #roleplayers #roleplay blog #rp community #2012 rp #dean winchest #cas #castiel

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greaseonmymouth · 2 years ago

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9, 13, 24… and, you know what, 20 bc I’m curious 😂

9. What is your favorite summer activity?

trying not to melt from the heat! although this week has been balmy in the low twenties with rain on/off, today it is 17 degrees and raining and I'm not complaining. I made myself hot chocolate.

other than that, sitting outside in the evenings in good company and enjoying the long nights! haven't got to do that in a while and tbr it works better somewhere that isn't the south of England (by which I mean Denmark at the very least but ideally like Finland or Iceland) because the light lasts longer there.

13. What fandom do you consume the most content for?

at the moment?? I think I'm between fandoms?? I'm sort of poking at things here and there and just reading whatever I feel like across a wide variety of fandoms. Historically though, that would be HP, SPN and MCU, and also because of the sheer number of fics available in these which means there's always something there to find...

24. Current hyperfixation?

the caterpillars in my tiny herb garden. no for real, I have a caterpillar problem so this past ten days or so, every 30 minutes (when home and not in the office or otherwise out of the house) I go check for caterpillars so I can pluck them off. (haven't found any in 48 hours so maybe I am Free.)

I think the only other thing that comes close to a hyperfixation at the moment is my bookbinding spreadsheets, I have been re-organising my stuff and cleaning up spreadsheets to keep track of everything and now I'm at a point where there are no more spreadsheets that can feasibly be made. I mean, I probably could just invent some, but like, I am capable of reason.

20. What are the fanfics you’ve ever read?

...I don't know how to answer this question :''D what does this even mean :'''''D

you know what FUCK IT let's have the 5 most recently read fics from my AO3 history no cheating

so. we spacemen in geardagum by indigostohelit (https://archiveofourown.org/works/42430848) a Star Trek fic in old English (there's a modern English backtranslation in chapter 2). actually considering binding this one with the two texts side by side and ALSO transliterating it into futhorc. somebody stop me

Cas + Dean 4Ever by Tuesday (https://archiveofourown.org/works/66459) a classic! I actually bound this one the other day, just haven't posted any photos because it's a simple paperback experiment and I'm going to do a group post when I've got a few more bindings like that

Miss by mistr3ssquickly (https://archiveofourown.org/works/48372088) this is smutty Ballister Boldheart/Ambrosius Goldenloin fic

The Music Room by CinnamonAndPancakes (https://archiveofourown.org/works/38755788) this is smutty Metal Lords (Hunter/Clay) fic

Treasures by yeaka (https://archiveofourown.org/works/849107) this is smutty Kirk/Spock fic

the reason we're stopping here and not doing 10 most recently read is because the next 5 fics are just smutty Finn/Poe fic and look I don't need to air ALL my dirty laundry. if you ask nicely I'll link you the one with Poe in a gold bikini

#ask meme #😘😘😘

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follows-the-bees · 1 year ago

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The former supernatural community latching onto izzy like he's dean is disturbing.

I have many thoughts and feelings on this, so I will try to make this short.

First, I've seen a divide with SPN fans and their reactions to Izzy and Izzy's death. Some fans are similar to me, and understand Izzy's purpose in both the show and his death, while not necessarily thinking he needed to die, but he needed to be far away from Ed and Stede in order for them to heal. And some who I think had a different version of Izzy in their head (and connection to him) than what the show established/portrayed, and felt betrayed by the end when it didn't match their reading.

At first I was surprised that Izzy is the character that was latched onto and not, for instance Ed. Ed is far more like Dean (Daddy issues, he is at the core soft, but has to be hard to protect people or when he is pushed to be, etc) than Izzy or really anyone else on the show. He is misunderstood the most too.

A lot of it is seems to be from past trauma from Dean's death and SPN's terrible finale. The shock value. And also a lot of projection. But it is only the ghost of it. It is not the same scenario, and it serves completely different purposes, especially since Izzy and Dean are different tropes, archetypes, etc.

But now that I have had months to think about it and read a lot of essays and it makes sense. SPN, especially at certain times, requires a lot of analysis of subtext. Especially when looking at the queer subtext about the main three characters. Until the ending, they went full text, and people will still argue about it.

OFMD is different in that basically all of the characters are queer. There is no having to dig through subtext to analyze. There are so many other interesting things to analyze instead, from the trauma of not only the two leads, but the whole crew. But if you are used to having to dig and read into queer subtext, especially the Hays Code era, there is only one character that works with: Izzy. So if you are coming from SPN, the trauma and queer coding and that's all you want to identify with or analysis, that is going to limit your readings in an openly queer show.

Now this is only a little bit of it. Some of it is people just identifying and liking Izzy and his journey the most on the show. Everyone is going to identify with different characters and different journeys. So if you identify with Izzy the most, cool, but getting made at the show and insulting the creator because he didn't match what was in your head, even though Izzy's death was foreshadowed in the first season, is not cool.

There are two good posts that I'll link to here and here, but they also express why looking at the show through Izzy's lens while not wrong of course, is just missing the point of the show and once again framing a white repressed antagonist as the only queer reading is actually making it heteronormative.

#answered

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youre-only-gay-once · 2 years ago

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[ID: Glowing neon white and orange text set over a picture of a foggy, wet road at night. the road is surrounded by looming trees and there is a single car driving on it. The text reads: Clarice your-only-gay-once’s 3000 Follower Celebration end ID]

Hey y’all, I recently hit 3000 followers and decided to do an supernatural creator event! It will run for 6 days from August 1 to August 6 !

Prompts

August 1: Favorite episode(s)/character(s)/ship(s) // Black and/or Red // Flowers

August 2: Horror // Teal and/or Orange // Liminal Spaces

August 3: Women in Spn // Purple and/or Gold // Cars

August 4: Angels, demons, and other non-humans// Green and/or Blue // Music

August 5: Older content, tag me in something you made that never got the attention it deserved or even just something you made that you really liked!

August 6: Freespace!! Anything you want!!

Guidelines

Open to everyone regardless of whether you follow me or are mutuals with me (no incest or minor/adult shippers though please)

You can fill one of the prompts or all of the prompts. In fact, you don’t even have to follow the prompts at all, they’re just suggestions/ideas and you can make content for as few or as many of the days as you want

All content types are welcome (gifs, fanfic, amvs, poetry, web weaves, edits, graphics etc. etc.)

If you aren’t indigenous don’t make any Kaia (including dreamhunter) content, see this post for why

No baby jack content, it's not my thing and while some of it was cute at first it got really wide spread and started turning pretty ableist, see these posts for more info x x

No wincest or winkline please

No extremely NSFW content please, if it’s mild nsfw please make sure to tag it

Try to warning tag your posts the best you can please

Tag your posts with #yogo3000 and/or tag me directly

#yogo3000 #spnedit #supernatural #events #tw incest mention

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mittensmorgul · 3 years ago

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So I've finally managed to start a supernatural rewatch since it ended. I had a really hard time coming back to it knowing it ended like.... that. I'm wondering if you (or anyone who reads this) has any really good fix-it fics to read instead of the finale? I'm planning on watching up to 15x19 (maybe only 15x18 depending) and then just reading a fic as the ending instead, so I'm looking for something that picks up right where it leaves off, and then wraps everything up in the way the finale didn't.

Thanks for all your meta and spn commentary and stuff. You're one of my fave accounts ♥️

oh gosh, hello! And thanks!

I've read a lot of great fix it fics for the finale, and heck i should've made a special tag for them on tumblr, but I think most of the ones I've seen have made it into my episode tag... only there's like 60 pages of posts in there and I'd venture to say that the majority of them aren't fics, but meta, gif sets, art, and like... generalized yelling. All of which may be interesting and useful to you anyway! Even if it's not all fic. :D

I've written several fics myself that fall under the umbrella of Series Fix It, too:

Revenge of the Text (25.5k, rated T because my intent was to make something that COULD have aired, though after posting I realized I could've given more screen time to Sam and Eileen, even though I pretty much give them their happy ending right at the start lol... priorities, after all)

what goes around... (468 words, rated T, short and angsty with a happy ending)

The Famous Final Scene (202 words of pure fix it)

Everything I've written set in canon since the finale is effectively finale fix it, too, even if it doesn't directly address the finale, because the assumption is life just went on, they got Cas back, and without Chuck's power there to beam their reality to our tv screens in our universe, some network exec panicked and aired ~whatever that was~ instead of what actually happened in their lives instead. So we have holiday fluff with For The Best, case fic with lectio in equis, and coming October 6 for the DCBB this year, I'll be posting Heart Shaped Box. And that's just my own fix its. There's soooo many.

Another good place to start is probably the Episode Fix-It: s15e20 Carry On tag on AO3, though ymmv on various different iterations of "fixing it." Like... i have less than zero desire to read any fix it involving them all being dead in heaven. That's not fixing it for me. So mind the tags on each story and find what YOU want to read. Because there's a lot there, and that means something for everyone!

And also, like some of my fic referenced above, post-canon fic that isn't directly ABOUT fixing the finale, but still carries on the original story either like the finale never happened at all, or else handwaves the fixing bit and moves right on with their lives without explaining in detail how everything was fixed-- a lot of those fics won't get tagged with the 15.20 fix it tag, for obvious reasons. Post-canon might be another good search term, to look for, as well.

Good luck with your rewatch! :D

#nice things people say #spiders georg of the tnt loop #i still haven't rewatched the finale... not sure i'll ever be able to... don't know why i'd even want to lololol #spn fanfic #destiel #spn 15.20 coda fic #WELL HECK maybe try that tag? even if there might not be a lot in it because i keep forgetting i made it lolol

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eisforeidolon · 2 years ago

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https://www.tumblr.com/eisforeidolon/718782188223594496/httpstwittercommonafone618status166338788879

There really is a dangerous level of over-investment in J2's relationship (and other actors' relationships with them) from people on all sides of fandom.

I’ll admit, I absolutely loved the fact that Jared and Jensen were/seemed incredibly close, and it added something special to Supernatural for me. It felt …wholesome … or something to see two celebrities who genuinely seemed to form a close bond with each other. Yet, I started watching the show not that long before the prequel announcement, and when that and the surround crap happened, it made me sad. Not, ruin my life sad, but disappointed that they maybe weren’t as close as they seemed. So, I get feeling disappointment.

Do I think Jared and Jensen are as close as they used to be? No. They have basically said as much themselves, saying they mostly hang out at times surrounding cons these days, but they also mention texting and things like that. But does this mean they hate each other now? Um, no. This is just about the most likely scenario (hanging out less and mostly hanging out at cons) when they aren’t working on the same project and have families with kids who are getting older. Also, last year and this year have had a ton of cons, sometimes twice a month. Hell, I’m lucky if I see my best friend once a month and we both live and work in the same town. Adults lives just get busy. I do think they still care about each other, not being physically beside each other at all times doesn’t mean they don’t care, but I don't know if they are still "besties," anymore, either. Honest,y, I don’t need them to be. I’m happy if they are still happy to do cons together and maybe work together on a project at some point. I still enjoy watching them play-off each other.

That Twitter post talks about them being like magic and now it’s all gone. I disagree with this. They still have good chemistry, but they are also older and can be a little more reserved than when they were both in their 30s. Again, this should also be expected. It’s like J2 aren’t supposed to be normal humans who are allowed to grow and change or something.

So, I get feeling sad that they didn’t seem (we don’t actually KNOW this) as close, but that doesn’t mean they are enemies now, and never want to do anything together again. Also, as you pointed out, Jensen already directed Walker. It’s like this twitter person thinks projects and show are just J2's for the picking, and all they’re have to do to work on a project together is just pick one and go. It’s not easy to get anything going in Hollywood, never mind a project with your buddy when you both need to work in the meantime.

Yeah. I mean, I've always been fond of J2's friendship, but I am also very aware that they're not just separate distinct individuals but ... actors. Some fans have this very weird idea that actors must necessarily have the same relationships between themselves IRL as their characters have on their show. That's just ... not how it works. Jared and Jensen don't have to be attached at the hip to play Sam and Dean continuing to be that way in some hypothetical SPN continuation.

At the end of the day, the only people who really fully understand how prequelgate affected J2's relationship? Are Jared and Jensen themselves. As you say, in adult relationships, how often you see each other does not necessarily directly correspond to how close of friends you are. You're also not wrong that there's a lot of fans who desperately NEED them to either be just as close as ever or hate each other's guts - as if middle ground between those two alternatives isn't even possible.

And yeah, fans insisting they'll never work together again already are completely ignorant (or at least ignoring) that it's not just as easy as wanting to work together and it immediately happening tomorrow in a puff of magical fairy dust. Again, it's only been three years since SPN ended. In terms of developing projects, that is really not that long at all.

#askboxery #anonymous #j2 prequel drama

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aerialworms · 2 years ago

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hello dear mutual! I have a question. I'm no longer in the fandom but I like watching from the sidelines. there was a poll asking if destiel will still be made canon and my question is: how. isn't the prequel planned about the parents? I would love an explanation cause I don't understand. thank you so much!!

Hello there friend!! I'm happy to explain, I love rambling about this batshit show so much!

So yes, the prequel is about the parents, but I'm not sure how much you know about it so here's a little primer: from what I've seen, it's actually Dean telling the story of how his parents met and fell in love, presumably while he's up in Heaven post-finale (y'know, where Cas is also supposed to be). Jensen and his wife Daneel are executive producing, and the prequel is being showrun by Robbie Thompson, known for writing such episodes as Goodbye Stranger (the crypt scene my beloved!!!!!!), Meta Fiction ("What makes a story work? Is it the plot, the characters, the text? The subtext?"), and Fan Fiction (the musical ep! With Sam teasing Dean about destiel!). So from the get-go everyone was like 👀 because Robbie has always been a destiel-positive writer! Plus, apparently, Daneel's favourite character is Cas, so it would make sense for them to bring Cas back if they (and Misha) wanted!

Please bear in mind that I haven't actually watched any of the prequel, i've just been living vicariously through my dash. People who have actually watched it/know more than me please feel free to add on/correct me!

So, to my knowledge, the reasons people are thinking they might make Destiel canon in the prequel are (in no particular order):

a) A few weeks ago there was an episode that had Gabriel (as played by Richard Speight Jr) as the MOTW and also had a background cameo from Rob Benedict in a very bad wig (unclear if that was Chuck or not), and there have been quotes from (i think) Robbie saying that they're only having cameos from OG SPN actors if it's relevant to the story they want to tell (and since the Rob cameo was not explained or plot-relevant people are thinking they're possibly going to do a Chuck won scenario? It could turn out that he was never actually defeated in 15.19 and now Dean has to show up to fight him again (and get Cas back?? maybe??))

b) In that same episode, there was a scene where Mary and John look at a picture of some dude who'd given them a clue or talked to John or something - it was Dean! So he's alive again, briefly, in the 70s. Could be time travel, could be he's escaped from Heaven. So if Dean is around in the show, whether just as narrator or as a character in the story, he has the potential to go rogue and look for Cas, or be telling the story to Cas up in Heaven. In either case, there is the potential for canon destiel, if they (Jensen, Daneel, Robbie, Misha, etc.) decide they want to do that.

c) Jensen has said various things at cons recently which are kinda 👀, including that he'd have been happy to keep going on SPN for another 6 years, and, most recently (this weekend), which I think sparked the poll you were talking about - that if Dean and Cas reunited Dean would say "Hey, can we talk about that goodbye a little bit?" and then joked that nah, it would be more like "hey, buddy, good to see you, old pal" but THEN said "I don't know, maybe we'll get to see that, that would be interesting" (Here's a gifset of him saying that if you're interested)

Also this:

[ID: Tweet from Toni @JensFloofHair.

JENSEN WANTS TO FILM A NEW ENDING FOR SUPERNATURAL, THE ONE HE HAD DREAMED OF. ABOUT A 2 DAY SHOOTING, HE SAYS.

Misha: I mean, you have the Impala.

Damn right, nothing stopping them!!

#JIB11 /End ID]

It's no secret that Jensen Did Not like the finale, apparently Eric Kripke had to talk him into it and he still makes salty jokes about it even now. Add the fact that he got someone else to film the confession for him because he wanted to have a record of it, and has said they cut out key parts of his performance in that scene (which is why the editing of it is so janky). So it's possible that he intended for there to be actual reciprocation in that scene and, well, now he's got the reins. He could do it if he wanted!!!

d) The prequel finale - airing next Tuesday, Jack help us - is titled "Hey, that's no way to say goodbye". Which was already kinda 👀 before the con this weekend, but combined with Jensen saying Dean would say "can we talk about that goodbye a little bit?" is um. Look I don't wanna get my hopes up. But also........ 👀👀👀

I think the prevailing theories at the moment (from what I've seen on my dash) are that either:

a) They're baiting us to keep interest in the prequel (I trust Robbie but I don't really trust Jensen, so this seems likely)

b) They really are gonna bring Cas back, either as him being the one Dean is telling this story to up in Heaven, or using that Rob Benedict cameo to retcon the finale and make the show about breaking free of Chuck's control for realsies this time (which hopefully means Cas actually showing up and not being explained away in one line like the finale)

Like I said, I don't wanna get my hopes up because I don't quite trust Jensen. But. Given Robbie Thompson showrunning and Daneel loving Cas and Jensen dropping all these maybe-maybe-not hints. If they DID make destiel canon. I would not be surprised.

Well maybe a little bit but in an "I can't believe I was right" way.

#my asks #artie talks #spn #jensen #bts #spn prequel #this got long lmao like i said i love to ramble #i tried to cover all the points! let me know if you want me to elaborate on anything though #personally i think that if they do decide to bring cas back they'll have him do a “hello dean” or something in the prequel finale #to hook people for the next season #or if they cant get misha for whatever reason this season they'll have dean show up and mention off hand that he's looking for cas #im leaning very far toward “oooooh i think theyll do it” but also. ive been burned before *tjlc flashbacks*#ill never trust a showrunner again #unless robbie does make destiel canon in which case im gonna marry him #also i think this is my first time talking to you hi hello! you activated my hyperfixation trap card i hope i dont scare you off 😅#my dms are open if you wanna chat more!#meta #destiel

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orionsangel86 · 4 years ago

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SPN Conspiracies - Applying Logic to Chaos

Its been over 2 months now since the Supernatural finale aired. I am still so angry, hurt, and confused by it and I don’t think I will ever get closure unless someone like Andrew Dabb, or Jensen Ackles, actually opens up and gives us an explanation that makes sense.

What annoys me most right now is people trying to gaslight fans into believing that we should accept the narrative we have been given at face value: That the finale was always planned to be that way, that Destiel was never on the cards, that there was no Network interference, that the only changes made were due to covid and were minor at best.

This harmful gaslighting is FALSE.

NO ONE KNOWS THE TRUTH OF WHAT HAPPENED.

Look, I don’t agree with some of the crazier conspiracy theories. I don’t believe that there was some huge campaign among the CW Network execs to remove anything remotely gay out of homophobia. I don’t believe that the finale was changed because of some desire to make it into a Walker promo. I don’t believe that the finale was really bad on purpose in protest by Dabb for not getting to do an ending he truly wanted. I don’t believe that Dabb left us smart fans a bunch of secret messages in the finale to hint that he was on our side all along and that everything was fake.

I do, however, believe that all of these conspiracy theories have some elements in them that are plausible. At least, more plausible than the bullshit narrative mentioned above that some people are pushing in some desperate attempt to defend the Network (which imo is really strange behaviour anyway - why would anyone care about a TV network with a history of terrible behaviour?!?)

We have facts, based on information provided before the covid lockdown, which for some reason, people like Misha have since backpeddled on. So let me try to outline some of the information that makes no sense.

Below the cut I go on a deep dive into the conspiracies and statements I have heard about the SPN finale and try to make some sense of this whole fucked up situation. It gets long.

1. “Cas was never gonna be in the finale”.

False: We have many fan accounts of Misha confirming that he was filming the finale. We have video evidence of Misha confirming he was going back to film the finale after the lockdown. We have confirmation from fans in Misha M&Gs from March that he had about 5 days of filming left.

We also had fan accounts of discussions with Alex Calvert (I think) where he confirmed the final shot of the final episode was all four of them though I would LOVE if someone can find a source for this.

2. Okay, Misha was gonna be in the finale, but only as Jimmy Novak

False: I heavily side eyed Misha when he said this. But I think I can come up with a plausible explanation for it. Per above, Misha was supposed to film for 5 days. This does not align with the half a day he described of filming as Jimmy Novak. My own belief is that after Cas was cut from the finale (for whatever reason we don’t know) someone (probably Jensen Ackles) put up a fight and complained that Misha should be there for the final episode. The writers probably tried to come up with a way to bring Misha back without having to deal with Cas, and pitched the idea of Jimmy Novak being in Heaven. Misha, obviously annoyed about this, turned this stupid pitch down.

3. Destiel was never a thing, never planned, never part of Dabb’s ending. Bobo and Misha pushing the confession was the part of the season that was Wrong.

False: We have a SPN writer on record saying that Castiel’s confession was the first thing written for Season 15 when the writers returned to the writers room. If it wasn’t planned, why was it the first thing written, why does it align so well with the rest of season 15? Look I know some people either a. hate destiel and refuse to see it even if it slaps them in the face, or b. have major heteronormative goggles on, or c. are just homophobes in denial, but 15x18 fits in perfectly with the narrative of season 15. Everything Cas says, everything that happened in that scene was so in character it just works. It fit. If you just rewatch the season whilst applying some critical thinking skills and pay attention to the narrative and character arcs, trust me, the confession fits in with pretty much every other plot point, and character story in the season.

Also: We have known for a while that the network did market research into Destiel, wanting to know if it would go down well or not. They were well aware of its popularity and considering it. Where would this have come from if not pitched by the showrunner? Dabb must have at least been considering it. If you take all of Dabb era into consideration, starting with mid season 11, all the way through the season 12 build up, season 13 grief arc, and then Bobo’s Destiel break up arc in late season 14, early season 15, it is clear that there was some toing and froing on the issue of Destiel, but ultimately, I still believe that Dabb was on board. He wrote 13x01 for christs sake. No way he wasn’t taking it seriously.

4. It’s always been about the brothers. The finale just stays true to what Supernatural is all about.

*rubs temples* Fundamentally FALSE: The show has time and again reasserted the message of “Family don’t end with blood”, as well as the messages of AKF and YANA. Sam and Dean may be at the heart of the show, but a heart can’t exist without a body to support it. Without bones, and lungs, and blood, and muscles, and a BRAIN. The finale abandons the shows core messages. It forces the characters back into their season 1 characterisations and the whole thing becomes hollow and souless. But I’m not here to complain, I’m here to lay down the facts. Dean’s heaven was supposed to be surrounded by loved ones right? We know OG Charlie Bradbury was gonna be in his Heaven, we also know CAS was gonna be in there. So this idea that the finale as it currently stands was how it was meant to be is wrong. Dean was supposed to die and reunite with his found family and loved ones. This alone would have been a far better ending than the one given. Do I think this was solely a covid issue? Fuck no.

The randoms that WERE in the finale are proof alone that they could have got people in and quarantined. We also have several actors on record saying that they WOULD have quarantined for the finale had they been asked to return but they WEREN’T.

Lies have been told. Samantha Ferris and Chad Limberg have confirmed that we have been lied to about the original plans for the finale.

This alone is proof enough that there is more plausibility in some of the conspiracy theories than any bullshit narrative some people are pushing in defence of the barbaric mess of a finale we were given.

So lets address some of the conspiracy theories now:

Conspiracy No.1: The CW Network reviewed Supernatural during the covid break, and due to homophobia, refused any Destiel arc that wasn’t already filmed, shut down any potential reciprocation from Dean, and forced Dabb to change his finale.

I don’t think this is entirely what happened. But I do think it is very strange how there is a such a huge disconnect particularly in Dean’s characterisations between what had come before the lockdown, and what came after. The one fact we have here, and please someone provide a source if you can find it because I know there is one, the finale script was still going through changes up to only 2 weeks before it was filmed. We know that there was some weird editing in 15x18 (which was still in post and uncompleted before lockdown) and we know from Jensen’s own mouth that there was more to the confession scene on Dean’s side that was cut. We also know that this isn’t the first time that Destiel heavy moments have been changed in post - the prayer scene is another big scene that went through a lot of changes and Bobo fought to have his script play out the way he wanted it.

There are certain things that in my own opinions, are basically true of SPN which I have put together from years of keeping one eye on the writers room, the network, and all the various comments made. My opinion is this:

The writers room has always been split on Destiel. Some writers heavily supported making it canon, others did not care, or were against it.

The Network considered it over the course of several years, did market research, green lit it, then changed their minds, possibly several times over the course of Dabb’s era. Destiel was pitched to the Network early in Dabb era.

The crew on set were also split. Some people heavily supported it, and worked to assist the reading, whereas others did not care/did not support it. The same can be said for the editing room.

Bob Singer supported the subtextual homoeroticism, but never supported bringing it into text (this is an opinion, but I think it aligns with everything we know about him.) IMO Bob Singer also supported subtextual homoeroticism between Sam and Dean - the guy is gross is what I’m saying. He isn’t exactly a progressive person.

Fun fact - a while back our old enemy Sera Gamble went on a Twitter rant about writers rooms and the ways a script goes through changes. I don’t think this was in relation to the SPN finale wank but she basically inadvertantly confirmed that the Network can step in and make sweeping changes to a script if they want to and if they decide they don’t like the direction of a story. Sera Gamble confirmed this as a fact.

Now. I’m not saying that this is what the CW did with Destiel. I just think its very strange how pre lockdown, the last thing filmed is a heartfelt homosexual declaration of love between Dean and Cas, and we have a finale script that Misha had not seen, but knew that he was meant to film as Castiel for 5 days (5 days on set is over half of an episode as far as I know). Then all of a sudden, Covid happens, and Cas is cut from the finale completely, a desperate attempt to bring Misha back only as Jimmy Novak takes place, which Misha rightly refuses, leading to a finale which makes zero sense narratively and appears in every way completely and utterly butchered.

The only explanation provided by anyone involved is that Covid meant changes had to happen - but that covid didn’t change the actual story at all.

But this makes no sense because we know that Cas was cut from the finale. This is FACT. Do not let anyone gaslight you into thinking otherwise. Misha was preparing to quaranting to return to set as Cas post Covid, so whatever happened to cut Cas from the finale, it wasn’t Covid.

I’m gonna have to Occum’s Razor this and say that the most logical explanation here is the one that is most likely true. Someone got cold feet with the Destiel story, and to prevent any possible interpretation that included Dean reciprocating, any hints of Destiel were removed from the finale script, including Castiel’s whole appearance.

Now, this isn’t me saying I think that Dabb’s original finale was full of Destiel love confessions and a homosexual kiss or whatever, but I am asking you all to really think about it and ask yourselves WHY Cas would have been totally cut from an episode he was supposed to be in at LEAST half of?

We will probably never know the real reason Cas was cut, but he WAS cut. I’m not saying it was all homophobia, but some fuckery went down.

Conspiracy No. 2: The CW Network changed the finale to make it into a Walker promo because they only cared about raising up Jared and not Jensen and Misha as they were losing them anyway.

I don’t agree with this in terms of the finale being butchered solely to make it into a Walker promo. There are however moments in the finale that are clearly supposed to be Walker Easter Eggs and added to excite fans of Jared/Sam in particular such as Sam’s gratuitous and unnecessary topless scene, as well as the call on the “case in Austin”.

I will take this moment to say something pretty damn controversial though.

*Deep breath*

The fact is, Dean Winchester has been the “lead” character of Supernatural’s narrative for years now, with Sam often being sidelined and not given great storylines himself. Even in Season 15, right up until the finale, I myself felt bad for Sam sometimes because so much of this show has become all about Dean. Jensen Ackles is clearly the better actor when it comes to emotional story arcs, so the emotional heart of the story has most often leant on him.

So you can understand my confusion, when this is turned on its head in the final episode, to make Sam carry all the emotional weight, and have the most lines/screentime, and story resolution (even if his story resolution was just as crappy as Dean’s).

If we pretend that Destiel is not a thing, and ignore Cas’s confession, the story change in the finale from Dean focus to Sam focus is still rather suspicious. Again, I’m not saying I completely approve of or agree to the conspiracy theory that Walker influenced the butchering of the script, but I can believe that perhaps a note went down from the CW to someone like Bob Singer, to emphasise Sam/Jared more than they perhaps would normally, because the CW wanted to shine the spotlight on Jared to raise excitement for Walker.

I can also believe this note might have said something like “we wanna cater to fans of Sam/Jared the most - don’t do anything to piss them off.” but now I am getting into my own conspiracy theories so by all means dismiss this as me being bitter.

Conspiracy No.3: Dabb purposely made it bad, as a secret message to Destiel fans that he had been silenced, by layering meta clues into the episode that he knew fans would notice.

I doubt this one is true. Though some of the theories are quite compelling. The old vampire silent movie theory for instance starts off quite well, but loses me the moment it brings up Urban Dictionary slang.

Sometimes I have just had to accept that Supernatural is a bad show that is sometimes accidentally a masterpiece. However, some writers really did go That Deep with their stories - anything by Ben Edlund or Steve Yockey for instance, their episodes are meta masterpieces with a hundred different layers of beautiful subtextual storytelling and are a joy to analyse. Bobo Berens has certainly done some A+++ work especially now we KNOW that he was working hard all this time to bring Destiel to canon text (so any analysis of Destiel in the subtext in his episodes is very accurate). There have been many other key elements analysed over the years which have been confirmed true. Cas’s death in Season 12, Dean’s time as a demon in season 10, Season 11 ending in unity of dark and light, these were all plot points predicted by meta writers just by analysing the narrative. Sometimes the writers really have been very smart and they do add things to the show to aid us in our meta.

Richard Speight Jr for instance, confirmed that SPN has a visual library that the production team use to give clues and hints in the narrative. Pizza, for example, always means a lie has been told. Whenever Pizza is being eaten or even just mentioned on screen, there is dishonesty in that particular moment.

The beers also have a very specific message and the one thing I can’t let go about the finale, was that Dean was drinking El Sol beer. The beer his dad gave him, that was terrible.

El Sol has been used in the show to indicate something being wrong, a fake reality, or another lie, for the longest time. It is the beer of deception.

The fact that in the final episode of this entire show, Dean is in Heaven, supposedly at peace, and then he gets handed an El Sol beer to drink? Thats a HUGE red flag for any meta writer watching who can read SPNs visual library.

If they had given him the Margiekugel beer of family then it would make sense. Dean is in Heaven, with Bobby, his family, at peace. Margiekugel should have been the beer of choice. But nope. El Sol. Something is wrong.

I don’t know if it was Dabb, or Singer, or some disgruntled ADs and crew members who added these elements into the finale, but their very presence confirms some message of Wrongness.

I could go into a huge rant about Vampire Mimes not making sense and the very glaringly obvious symbolism of cutting out peoples tongues too, but that is high school level film analysis. It’s obvious. It means to silence someone. There is validity in interpreting this as Dabb saying he was silenced. I don’t know how true it is, but i can’t 100% dismiss it, because as I said, this is high school analysis levels of obvious subtextual storytelling.

So in summary, whilst I don’t think that Dabb intentionally went out of his way to sabotage his own script, and leave a breadtrail of secret messages for savvy fans to put together to confirm that he was silenced by an evil network into not getting what he wanted... I do think that there is validity in questioning these odd choices for the finale. Cutting out tongues? Vampire Mimes? El Sol beer?

The evidence is somewhat compelling is all I’m saying. I don’t believe the full conspiracy theories, but as I have said many times before, some fuckery went down.

So What Do I Believe?

That some fuckery went down and whatever company line they are pushing is bullshit.

I believe that the original script included Cas (since thats fact). I believe that the original script probably always had Dean dying on a vampire hunt (due to Jensen’s issues with it and in particular, his sarcastic comments about vampires in the past year or so which in hindsight are hilarious and prove he never really came to terms with Dean’s idiotic death). I believe Dabb’s original script was some less crappy version of what we got, which potentially included showing Jack rescuing Cas from the Empty and resolving the outstanding Empty plot points (potentially this was actually a 15x19 plot since Mark P commented that his final scenes were supposed to be with Jack and Cas), had Cas reunite with Dean in Heaven and had them have a discussion about Cas’s confession. I believe that there was probably a lot of back and forth over how to handle that with some people wanting Dean to obviously reciprocate and others believing they should keep it ambiguous. I believe that Dean and Cas would have reunited with Charlie Bradbury, and Bobby Singer, and possibly others (though if this was the case it must have been very early on since no one ever looped in Sam Ferris, Chad Linberg or any other Roadhouse people).

I believe that Sam’s ending probably didn’t change much, but I do feel that initially they were planning on him ending up with Eileen, because it is the only thing that narratively makes sense. Cutting Eileen and giving him a blurry wife is something I won’t ever understand and Jared’s bullshit explanations are quite clearly pulled out of his ass to appease bronly types. I believe the reunion on the bridge would have included Cas and Jack, with a final shot of all four of them together, at peace (as this aligns with Alex’s comments from around a year or so ago that the final shot was all four of them). (I also am not sure it was always supposed to be on a bridge since the foreshadowing in an earlier episode showed Dean, Cas and Sam all in the Roadhouse together).

I believe that script went through countless changes and redrafts, and not even production people or the types that some fandom people claim as their “sources” would even have seen those early scripts, since even Misha never saw it. I believe that these rumours of Dabb never having Cas in his finale and ignoring all Destiel elements likely come from people who only saw later versions, weren’t party to network discussions and felt bitter about the final scripts they did see (being the crappy butchered one that was ultimately filmed). Those “sources” are now spreading rumours to discredit Dabb.

I obviously believe Dabb is a weak ass pushover who either didn’t care enough to fight back, or gave up since he’s been stuck with fucking Bob Singer on his back for years, but I will NEVER believe he didn’t care about the DeanCas love story, because he has been one of the few writers who has championed for it for years. You can’t look back at Dabb’s episodes in earlier seasons and claim he didn’t care. Dabb was a writer whose creative ideas were beaten out of him by an unforgiving Network only concerned about where their future money was coming from. Do I think he gave up too easily? Yes. But I also have one other huge reason for not believing the bullshit about Dabb being this anti-Destiel villain.

Bobo. Because if Bobo truly believed Dabb was gonna fuck that up at the end, I don’t think he would have given us Cas’s love confession to begin with. If he had known it was gonna end like that, I think he would have reconsidered, because had Cas not confessed his love, I don’t think he would have been cut from the finale. Bobo - a gay man, would not have wanted such a horrible message for queer fans being put across in the show he worked so hard on. He started writing that confession scene the day they returned to the writers room. Dabb would have been there, would have seen what he was writing, probably discussed it with him, after all, other episodes were written with the confession in mind. No way was Dabb planning to fuck up the ending knowing what Bobo was giving us. Nope.

Something went very wrong over lockdown. Someone, somewhere up the chain of power caught wind of the confession scene in 15x18, realised that it demanded a resolution which would make Dean Winchester, their protagonist, queer, and pulled the plug. I believe this did not come from a place of homophobia, but of bad business sense.

The CW is constantly trying to win the approval and attention of the one demo group that they seem to fail at getting the most: young straight men. Supernatural was one of their only remaining shows that appeals to young straight men, and Dean Winchester is more often than not the fave character of those young straight men who project onto him. Making Dean Winchester, established Han Solo of Supernatural, queer and in love with his best friend in the finale would have come across as a betrayal to those young straight men. The CW probably feared they would lose that demo group for good, and with a show like Walker starting soon with Jared at the helm, they couldn’t take the risk.

Hence there was probably a whole bunch of back and forth script redrafts with the Network, with Dabb and Singer fighting to make a finale that would appeal to everyone. There was most likely no way that they could bring Cas back without addressing what had already been filmed, because any resolution of that plot would either a. make Dean queer, or b. address it awkwardly by having Dean reject Cas (this storyline would probably have been slammed by critics worse than the finale because it meant addressing it. It might have got the attention of LGBTQ activist groups and caused a bigger shitstorm than what we got). The best option was therefore C. Bury it and Cas, pretend it never happened. Never address it again and distract Dean with other things. Hope that Destiel fans will accept no answer from Dean as ambiguous enough to imagine a future reunion rather than shutting it down with a rejection, and still keep hold of the blissfully ignorant heteronormative straight boys so they can carry over to Walker when it starts.

I also believe (controversially probably) that there was concern that any resolution of Dean and Cas would have overshadowed network darling Jared Padalecki. If Dean and Cas had come together in the finale, with a very clearly textual homosexual reunion, then that would have been all anyone talked about. The reviewers, the critics, the audience, everyone. It would have been nothing but Dean and Cas (and look, if they did think this, they were right, Destiel trending over the US ELECTION.)

So what is the network to do, when they are losing the two stars who would get the most attention from this storyline? The one star they were holding on to and getting his own show, relegated to third place in the finale of the show where he was first on the call sheet? Nope. That’s pretty unacceptable. Even without Walker I can imagine people at all levels side eyeing the Destiel thing over the years. This IS a show about two brothers, and their relationship should be the core relationship, we can’t have one brother pushed aside in the finale to make way for a queer relationship that will get all the attention instead. It was never gonna get approved for this reason ALONE.

At the end of the day, if I look at it from a business perspective, it makes far more sense that the CW shut down Destiel, rather than “oh Dabb never cared and ruined it because he’s an idiot.” The writers cared, and had built on that story over years. But their mistake was leaving any Destiel resolution to the finale. If they had instead gone and got Dean and Cas together in early season 15, then they could have ended it in a way that satisfied everyone. Destiel wouldn’t have threatened pulling focus away from Sam and Dean, and the show could have gone out on a high.

When I lay out all the conspiracy theories, and line them up next to the cold hard facts, the conspiracy theories in some way or another, make more sense. To believe the company line, the narrative we have been fed, is to ignore your own eyes, ears, and memories pre March 2020.

All I’m asking people to do is take a look at the show, the narrative presented in the show, and the information presented above. I’m not telling you to believe what I’ve written here, half of which is just my own opinion. I’m asking you to ask yourselves if it makes sense to you. Because it sure as hell doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t think I’ll ever be satisfied.

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