#lumax needs a hug

[nicxxx5]

max and mike got close when the byers left for california. they found comfort in each other being the same person, different font. dustin and lucas knew because they'd see them hanging out but never told anyone or intervened because they could see how the two had bonded and that their hang outs were their thing. when the cali crew gets back mike is very distraught about max and will and el are a little confused.

when the group arrived back in hawkins, they knew they were most likely in to receive unfortunate news left and right. they were still unprepared for the news about max. they knew el's fight with henry hadn't gone as smoothly as they had hoped, but the condition max was in was still difficult to comprehend. however, her condition wasn't the most surprising thing the cali group faced upon their return.

after dustin delivered the news mike, el and will quickly made their was to the hospital. although arriving to hawkins and catching up with some of their friends and family incredibly briefly was enough to make anyone's head spin, that didn't mean will and el didn't notice mike's face become sickly pale and look as though he was about to vomit when hearing about max. of course hearing that their friend was left with severe broken bones and in a coma after being possessed by a serial killer in another dimension would be hard on anyone, but from what they recalled of the two's relationship, mike's reaction was a little more than they were expecting.

as they approached the hospital mike appeared to seem more and more anxious. this confused the siblings even more but argued to themselves that hospitals probably made mike anxious after all that they've been through as they did to them. also the situation they were approaching was not one they ever anticipated them having to deal with.

when they finally found the room max was being treated in they entered and were greeted with the sight of lucas and erica sitting by max's bed side while lucas read to her. they embraced each other, relieved to be together again after the past week. while el approached max's bed side the boys hung back to give her space.

mike had begun to look as though he was about to collapse. his skin was white as a sheet and damp, and his hands were shaking as if someone had hooked him up to a live wire.

out of the corner of his eye will caught mike's current state and knit his eyebrows together in concern. "mike? are you okay? you look sick?"

mike didn't even glance his way. his eyes were locked on max's frame. "i-...i-" he looked like he was trying to swallow a rock.

their interaction gaining the attention of the others in the room, el, lucas and erica turned to look at them.

"mike?" although things had appeared tense on the ride down to hawkins, el was still concerned for him. she stood up from her place at max's side.

mike, his mouth opening searching for words and his eyes darting around the room, finally shook his head. "i can't- i can't. i need to go. sorry. i'm sorry." and he turned for the door.

bewildered by his friend's actions will turned to him. "mike what? mike what's wrong? mike wait!" he moved to go after him.

"wait."

will stopped and turned to look at lucas. his friend had a look on his face that clearly meant he knew something will didn't. "give him some space. this is probably really hard for him. i wish we could have warned you guys." lucas sighed.

el and will shared a look, telepathically agreeing that their was something they were missing.

will turned back to his friend. "yeah, i mean this is really hard for all of us. but for mike to run out like that? i don't get why he would..." he trailed off struggling to find the word to sum up mike's actions.

lucas sighed again and his eyes trailed off. "yeah, well, mike and max...while you guys were gone and the rest of us in hawkins were struggling to move on and adjust to high school...mike and max became...surprisingly close."

will raised an eyebrow. "what do you mean?"

lucas sat with his hands folded in his lap. "i mean that they'd hang out together. more often than they'd hang out with dustin and i" he look away "a lot more often than max and i."

el and will looked at each other surprised by what they were hearing but didn't say anything to allow lucas to continue.

he looked back at them and continued "i don't think they knew that we knew. i mean, it's not like it's wrong for them to hang out. it was just a little strange considering how much they'd argue since day one, so i guess we were at least a little surprised. but we never said anything because we didn't want to make things awkward and those two were already dealing with enough shit, more than the rest of us i think looking back on it."

"what do you mean?" el asked this time.

lucas sighed "i mean out of those of us left here in hawkins i think they had lost the most after what happened at starcourt. even though he was a piece of shit, max watched her brother die, then her step dad walked and i don't think she's talked to her mom since that summer because her mom is either at work or passed out from drinking."

he turned and looked at el "i think you leaving took a toll her too." el looked up at him, surprised at this acknowledgment. "i know you two got pretty close last summer and i think she missed you and having a friend she could talk about stuff with that she couldn't with us guys" lucas half joked because he knew there were somethings that were talked about girl-to-girl that couldn't be talked about girl-to-boy, even girlfriend-to-boyfriend.

lucas turned will "and mike lost you." will's head shot straight up and his eyes went wide. lucas continued "i know we're the party but...you and mike were different. you were always close in a way that you weren't with dustin and i. i mean, all he ever did every day since you left was complain about he could never get through when he tried calling your house in california because the line was always busy."

will stared at lucas as if he didn't believe what he was hearing, and honestly he didn't completely believe it either. after third wheeling his sister and mike's relationship, only actually gotten through to him a handful of times on the phone and received no letters, it was shocking to hear that mike apparently tried calling him every day.

lucas continued on "my point is is that i think because they lost so much so close to them and because they're more similar than the two of them would probably ever admit they gravitated towards each other and started hanging out on their own, especially when they were having bad days. i remember on days where max seemed more withdrawn than she already was, or days were mike was quieter but simultaneously more irritable than usual, i'd look over and see max's skateboard outside the wheeler's garage, or sometimes mike's bike outside max's trailer when i'd try to go and see if i could get her to talk to me"

"dustin said he'd sometimes see them together out side at lunch or walking to and from school together. neither one of us said anything because i think as strange as it was i think we were both at least glad" he paused for a second "maybe even relieved, that if they wouldn't talk to us, they at least had each other they could talk to. so yeah i think that's probably why mike ran out. i think this is a little harder for him than he might lead on."

as he finished speaking will and el turned and looked at each other, processing the information they were given but still surprised but what they were just told. neither one of them had realized just how much their friends' dynamics had changed while they were away.

finally will spoke "wow...i never thought i'd hear of the day where mike and max weren't at each other's throats throwing insults" he offered partly as a joke but also as a way to express his disbelief to the situation at hand.

lucas chuckled "yeah, like i said man, we were surprised too but it seems that they're able to help each other out. definitely in a way that i'll never understand and honestly i'm a little nervous to try."

will and el both laughed at lucas's attempt to throw in a joke when suddenly the door opened slowly.

mike peaked his head around the door then walked in, almost timidly, with his arms full of what looked like some snacks.

he cleared his throat and looked around the room "hey," he said "sorry. i- um-...hospitals you know, just, kinda make uneasy, and um, i guess see max- uh-"

"it's alright man" lucas cut him off sensing his struggle

mike glanced at him briefly "right. i- uh, got some snacks before i came back, because i figured we haven't had much since we got back," he looked at will and el. then he turned to lucas and erica "and i figured you guys are probably hungry as well and i don't know how long you've been here without eating, so, uh yeah, here-" and he started passing snacks around.

he passed out some chips and candy. mike got to will and handed him a bag of reese's pieces. "i got you these because i know they were your favorite and uh, i- uh, hope they still are" mike said to him awkwardly as he handed him the bag with a slightly shaky hand, looking to and away from his face.

will took the bag and he smile at mike "they are mike, thanks." and he began opening the bag.

mike let out what seemed almost like a sigh of relief and he went to go sit in an open chair that happened to be by max's bedside. he looked over at her and a look of longing and despair came over his face. it was a look you'd see on someone who just lost something incredibly valuable to them.

no one said anything though. they just let the two of them be, because that's how max and mike worked with each other.

[thewisewill80sbyers]

Okay sorry, I'm gonna respond to all the comments later now I'm gonna make my little post of the context around the scenes / what I think...

Will and Joyce heart to heart... probably a coming out scene!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE'S SO CUTE AND ADORABLE AND I LOVE HIM SO SO MUCH AND I NEED TO HUG HIM AND HE'S GOING TO BE OUR CENTRAL CHARACTER AND FOCUS OF THE SEASON AS HE FUCKING SHOULD

MIKE IN PROTECTION MODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WILL HURT IN THE BACKGROUND??? WHAT DID THEY DO TO MY SON !!!! STOP IT!!! I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE EXTRA KIDS

Steve and Dustin in the UD lab ?

LUMAX ANGST from the first ep. probably?

Karen and Holly being attacked or scared for someone???

JOYCE BYERS PROTECTING HER CHILDREN!!!! We have Will, Robin, Erica and Derek in the background and they are at the farm

El and Hopper... idk what happened but my girly is not doing too well

THIS IS FROM THE AUDIO LEAKED!!!!! AT THE RADIO STATION!!! SO IT WAS HIM!!!! Also it seems like he's trying to control either himself or someone else?? not sure

IDK WHO THAT IS NOW I SHOULD ZOOM IN BUT... MY SON HAVING THE VOICEOVER IN THE TEASER THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU TO ALL THE GODS OUT THERE THAT LISTENED TO THE DESIRES OF MY HEART

GOOD FUCKING NIGHT AND BYLER ENDGAME!!!!! NEW YEAR'S KISS !!!!!!!!

[love-byers]

st4 music coding: yearning and miscommunication (& lumax/byler parallel)

alright here we go

this will be long so strap in

(yes this is the post i've been hyping up for like 3 days lol)

there's a song that i noticed plays twice in season 4, in two very similar scenes, and a third that ill talk about later. the first is lucas looking at the hellfire club celebrate, and the second is will looking at mike and el skate ahead of him. i've drawn a few interesting parallels here that i think really strengthen byler endgame. please watch the video above in tandem with reading the post

first of all the obvious: lucas and will are both yearning to be with what/who they're looking at. lucas wanted to be there for the end of the campaign. he asked them to move it, not cancel it. he wanted to be there because he likes being in the club and he loves his friends. and we all know will byers is devastatingly in love with mike wheeler, so that speaks for itself. lucas and will are both feeling rejected, forgotten, unneeded, replaced. they are also both looking at their sibling taking their place. erica took lucas' place in hellfire, and el has taken will's place at mike's side. mike and el were attached at the hip the whole day, and that used to be mike and will. will knew mike long before el did, and before they started dating mike and will were a firm duo. mike and el were heavy on the PDA that day, but mike used to be affectionate towards will too, putting his arm around him, holding his hand, sticking close to him, laying his head on his chest, hugging him, etc etc. now mike can't even hug him. and there's a special sting about your sibling of all people replacing you, and seeing your friends (or crush in will's case) having a great time without you, with the better version of you, not needing you, not even thinking of you. and right there, ladies and gentleman, is where will and lucas are wrong. sure, the hellfire club were happy with erica and about the fact that they won, but they wanted lucas there. the whole reason mike and dustin were upset in the first place was because lucas was choosing the basketball team over them. they accepted that lucas had "gone to the dark side" and went on to find his replacement. they feel like lucas doesn't need them anymore, that he's replaced them with the jocks. and little do they know, that is not true. lucas misses them and yearns to be over there celebrating with them. and though it doesn't seem like it in that moment (lucas' point of view), they miss him and want him there too. they are miscommunicating. the same is going on with mike and will. will feels rejected, ignored, replaced. he thinks mike has basically forgotten he was there. he thinks mike couldn't give half a shit about him. he thinks mike doesn't need him. he will soon find out that that could not be farther from the truth. mike was HOT AND FUCKING BOTHERED. he felt rejected by will. he felt like will was purposefully pulling away. he felt ignored. he felt replaced by will's non-existent friends and maybe even a girl will liked. he felt like will didn't need him anymore, that will was doing great without him. he felt like he had lost will. he, like the hellfire club, accepted (or attempted to accept) that they weren't wanted or needed and leaned heavy into filling that void. (meanwhile lucas' replacement wasn't sufficing, and will didn't even have one). and little does mike know, that is all wrong. he missed will just as much as will missed him. he'd been watching will all day hoping will would talk to him. meanwhile will thinks mike has looked at him like...twice, and so does the audience, because we got will's pov first. this is why the rink o mania fight is so all over the place and dramatic, they're basically running smack dab into each other at full speed. they're both confused because the other suddenly cares about their relationship, and they're both hurt. they are miscommunicating. the hellfire club enjoyed having erica there, but she's not lucas. mike enjoyed hanging out with el, but she's just not will. meanwhile , lucas' replacement for hellfire wasn't sufficing, and will never tried to replace mike at all.

onto more specifc and visual parallels: lucas, el, will, and mike all fake smiles. i really want to stress el and mike, because not a lot of people realize that shot is about both of them. mike is faking a smile too. mike is upset too. mike is trying to appear happy and satisfied too. like y'all please cut my son some slack he was having a BAD DAY. his whole day was shitty too just have some empathy. if you really pay attention, you'll see that mike and el are doing the exact same things in tandem. mike sighs, el sighs. mike fakes a smile, el fakes a smile. mike's smile falls, el's smile falls. they're both trying to conform, trying to pass of lies as reality. "I try to laugh about it, cover it all up with lies... I try to laugh about it, hiding the tears in my eyes..."

now lastly: the scene of max listening to the radio call of the game. this falls right in line with the themes of the other scenes. she feels like lucas is doing great without her, like she's not needed. his life is just getting better and better and hers is getting worse. but she's got it all wrong too. she turns it off when the radio guy says "He must be feeling on top of the world right now". he was not. he was feeling shitty and missing his friends. he was missing max desperately, all the time. and he felt rejected by max, like she was steadily pulling away from him. and unlike the others where the distancing happens because of the miscommunication, max and lucas' happened because max distanced herself, and she was not there to see how lucas was really feeling, which was shitty. and yall already know im byler brainrotted as fuck so its extremely important to me that both times this track is used there is romance involved. in the ep 1 scene the song specifically trails into max's scene, roping her into this coding. mike and will are once again paralleled to a canon, requited, well written couple.

i don't really have any closing thoughts

actually here i have one: lucas and will parallels are the reason i wake up and breathe every day

and another actually

at this point to anyone who truly thinks mlvn are getting married:

and byler endgame but wbk

[givehimthemedicine]

time for my big lumax rantpost. I used to be way more of a shipper but upon reexamining some of my GA-era assumptions, I'm here to tell you why it sucks, and why I don't look forward to lumax endgame if it's the same lumax we've been getting.

lumax has fantastic potential, but needs lots of work to actually become the ship most of the fandom thinks it is.

I get the sense most on here consider lumax ST's darling perfect ship which is sullied by weak and/or racist writing. while I wouldn't argue at all that the writing does right by Lucas, I do think it's important to recognize lumax as an intentionally-written badly flawed relationship, NOT a poorly-written perfect relationship. (the writing for 5 has a lot to prove so we'll see)

lumax is obviously happening. no ending to Lucas's story makes sense other than him getting the girl. however, I don't like that from either character's standpoint.

from hers - Max is not a prize. and from his - Max is no prize.

Max is a pretty shitty girlfriend.

we've never seen her show Lucas any interest in learning anything about him. I can't remember a time she's complimented him, said anything nice about him, or done anything purely for his benefit. virtually all of their serious conversations have been about her, and the scant few that are sort of about him are inevitably just a lead-in to him offering support to her.

Lucas and Max's relationship - pre, during, and post dating - is 100% about what he can do for her. he's the one making 100% of the effort.

it seems like most of their interactions are him walking on eggshells trying to placate, reassure, or convince her, all for the reward of.... what. being allowed to continue existing near her? like yeah, she's a cool girl, but. that can't be it.

what good is getting the girl if the girl doesn't really offer anything?

. . .

through the seasons, semiquickly:

season 2

Lucas and Dustin both like Max, so they invite her trick or treating, offering to protect her from bullies and show her where the good candy is. in other words, the first Max / Lucas interaction is him offering something to benefit her. Max returns no appreciation or even response to the invite, yet still shows up to reap the benefits.

that pretty much sets the tone.

Max wants to be included, but that's a sensitive subject, so she puts on aloof airs to protect herself. it's an act, but nonetheless it's all Lucas receives.

the facade slips on multiple occasions though; Lucas is permitted to see her vulnerability, and we can see she's actually more desperate to make the connection than he is.

Dustin seeks Steve's manipulation tactics to use on Max, but Lucas wins her over by treating her like an equal and offering her genuine friendship.

he risks both his place in the party and his safety/life to include her, gives his undivided attention when she talks to him, asks questions that show his interest and concern, he reassures, uplifts and compliments her, and physically protects her.

in return, Max. uhh. well she does apologize for being a jerk, although she doesn't exactly stop, lmao. this is one of only two moments I can think of when Max reveals any regard for what Lucas thinks of her.

lumax is off-balance before it even starts, although s2 is when I think that dynamic is most permissible. since Max is a newcomer, Lucas has the advantage in many respects, and it makes sense for him to be the one extending a hand to her.

when Billy attacks Lucas for hanging out with Max, he could be gravely hurt if not for Steve taking the beating instead. Max joins in the momentary group hug but never says a word about this. (I suspect the writers mean for Max's bus apology to have proactively served as a veiled "sorry my stepbro is racist" but more felt needed in that moment.)

then they go to the dance and she kisses him and it's cute and everything is happy for ten whole seconds.

between 2 and 3

even though the summer of '85 is "the good days," this relationship is already careening downhill.

we learn that Max has dumped Lucas five times - such a regular occurrence that he takes it in stride and is well practiced at winning her back as a result.

unfortunately it's Lucas taking to heart the "happy wife happy life" policy from his dad that's set up lumax as something that seems to serve only Max. her awareness of the policy means she holds all the cards.

season 3

Max has secured her place in the party and the relationship, and now it's time for her to bring something to the table, but I honestly can't name one thing. it's still Lucas bending over backwards and Max sometimes being a bit of a jerk. (another act. we'll come back to this)

from the start of 3 we see an excessively secure Max and an obsequious Lucas. she doesn't show him any of the vulnerability that made her endearing in 2. they share fun moments, but we can infer that she doesn't treat him very well in ways that matter.

at one point she even plays mad just to watch him panic. you get the feeling this boy can never feel secure in his relationship. yeah she's just teasing, but do you think Lucas is allowed to tease too?

when El comes to Max for advice, she tells her that "boyfriends lie all the time" and this is before we see Lucas lie to her.

when Mike comes to Lucas for advice, he confidently schools him on how to get back in El's good graces by buying her a present - making clear he's been following his dad's advice all summer long and it's been working:

L: Dad? When Mom's mad at you, how do you make her not mad? C: First, I apologize. Then, I get your mother whatever she wants. L: Even when she's wrong? C: She's never wrong, son.

the mall confrontation is the first time we see Lucas really lie to Max, but even then, the girls don't actually have proof Nana isn't sick.

it's telling, actually, that Lucas's loyalty goes to Mike instead of Max in this moment. in s2 it was the other way around (Lucas pissed off the whole party by including her in the group and telling her the truth - a technically banishable offense). but now he's back to his s1 bros before hoes policy, and not only backs up but expands on Mike's lie. after dating almost a year, his loyalty to Max should be even stronger, but here we see the opposite. if Max had been at least as good a friend to him as Mike, I'm inclined to think he would at least have tried to be noncommittal here.

Max is so confident Lucas will have nothing on his mind but winning her back, as always - meanwhile who we actually see Lucas apologizing to is Will.

she may have had Lucas wrapped around her little finger all summer, but we're seeing that start to uncoil. if Lucas apologizes, it's offscreen.

when Billy tries to break out of the sauna to kill Max, Lucas slingshots him and body shields Max during the fight. next thing you know, Max is back to being cliquey with El in the bathroom (making fun of Mike even though he was the only one who did anything to save El's life?? girl you're being shitty to boyfriends that aren't even yours)

they seem to be a couple again by the end of 3, but the relationship is weakened...

between 3 and 4

..which sets the scene for how the two apparently drift when Max ends it once again. she's not playing this time - she uses the term "break up" instead of "dump" and Lucas has accepted that it's over.

depression makes it hard for Max to connect with him, but the way she treated him in 3 has likely also eaten away at his insistence on prioritizing her. if you push someone away over and over you can't be too surprised if they stay further away each time.

so Max withdraws socially and Lucas apparently doesn't go to his usual lengths to pursue her.

he's still making effort though! the "stalking" comment makes it clear he's been trying to approach her. we know he's been inviting her to his basketball games. him already knowing her favorite song as of 4x4 is more evidence of him taking an interest in her between seasons.

he clearly still cares a lot about Max, but good for him for pursuing his own hobbies and friendships as well.

season 4

Lucas finally asks Max to do something to support him for once (come to his game), but she shuts it down hard.

we know Max still cares about him, but that's just it - WE know. he doesn't. to his face, it's bristling rejection even while he literally begs for the chance to support her.

saving Max's life is a group effort, but Lucas knowing her favorite song is the key that saves her life, and it's only after that that she's friendly towards him again.

the only time I can recall Max expressing any concern for Lucas's wellbeing is when she asks if he's okay in 4x6 - and he only gets a few sentences to process Patrick's death before it's time for him to turn it into an apology to her. sigh.

Lucas is the only one of Max's friends to voice any objection to her suicide mission of a Vecna plan, and pitches for them to gamble a stranger's life instead. he once again risks his life to hang out in the Creel house with Max, personally taking on the huge responsibility of making sure she doesn't die.

Vol 2 Max finally shows Lucas some long-awaited appreciation ("you might have been there" and "I'm glad you're here") which is very nice to see.

I'm conflicted about the movie invite scene, but we'll talk about that later. textually: he asks her out, she accepts, it's totes adorbs.

unfortunately, Max being tranced out by the time Jason walks in means it's time for Lucas once again to get attacked by an older, stronger guy who's wrongly convinced he's a danger to her. (again not her fault, but kinda because of her)

everything goes sideways, Max gets Vecna'd, and Lucas holds her while she dies. we end on a bruised Lucas sitting loyally at Max's bedside, reading to her just in case she can hear it inside her coma.

Lucas hasn't been perfect but he has spent yet another season physically protecting and emotionally supporting Max at great personal expense, and with little appreciation and no support in return.

. . .

the movie doodle didn't fix lumax

Max has had an epiphany, but a change of behavior has scarcely begun. being nice isn't the same as making amends. they've resolved zero of the old issues, plus 4 (even if the plan had worked) has heaped a ton of new shit on both of them.

she's still a grieving, neglected, depressed and passively suicidal child of a triply-broken home. dating doesn't fix that. they already broke up once under the same conditions.

plus Max has new catastrophic emotional traumas, some of which which explicitly exacerbate those very issues. she has catastrophic injuries and disability to cope with (and this is a girl who withdraws under stress normally). with a shred of realism, she's waking up in less a mood for dating than ever.

Lucas has also taken on new traumas, between the basketball team stuff, getting beaten up and almost shot/strangled, and watching Max get Vecna'd and die. he already has a history of guilt about not being there for her enough, so he's going to have a lot more about failing her in that moment (definitely not his fault but he'll still feel bad) and will likely be even more focused on her.

to me, this all sounds like a recipe for the same old dynamic except worse than ever. if they get sleeping beauty'd directly back into lumax, it'll be a disservice to both characters.

. . .

now let's talk about why Max treats Lucas the way she does 🔬

she's not a conniving bitch, she's just a scared kid from a toxic home. that doesn't excuse her behavior but it does make it understandable.

Max CAN be a great friend. she's just not to Lucas.

Max absolutely showers El with the good qualities she'll barely show Lucas. in fact I could loosely say Max is to El what Lucas is to Max.

Max is suspicious and disparaging towards Lucas, even while trusting that he can be counted upon to grovel. meanwhile El never apologizes for intentionally hurting Max both physically and emotionally, yet the moment El acknowledges her (only because she wants help), Max is instantly forgiving, kind, gentle, caring, generous and supportive towards her.

she throws her loyalty behind a friend of 1 afternoon over her boyfriend of a year who's been the only person in Hawkins to show her any true kindness and emotional connection.

if Max was half the friend to Lucas that she is to El, she'd be a decent girlfriend. why isn't she?

we can name a few reasons why Max IS so nice to El, but why she ISN'T to Lucas is a separate question. kindness isn't zero-sum.

she told us why. boyfriends lie.

and it's ANY boyfriend, not just hers. Nana's sick? more like Mike's a lying piece of shit! Suzie from camp? fake! Dustin's obviously lying! the only one of the boys Max has never accused of lying is Will - the only one who's been single the whole time.

just. the state of being a boyfriend (or even just liking a girl is close enough), makes any boy automatically a liar.

Max believes "friend" and "boyfriend" are mutually exclusive

"Friends don't lie!" "Yeah, well, boyfriends lie all the time." <- it's all right there.

back in 2 when Lucas was her friend, she was more open and trusting. she gave him the benefit of the doubt that monsters were real and he knew a girl with magic powers. starting to date flipped the switch, and now she doesn't trust him about mundane stuff.

now they're not friends, they're boyfriend/girlfriend, and she expects to be treated in a whole different way, including all the baggage that comes with romantic relationships in her mind.

what baggage?

Max's childhood is full of examples of awful, manipulative men and abusive, broken relationships.

her dad: I'd only be speculating about why her parents' marriage failed, but in 2 Max misses California because her dad is still there, then by 4 acts like it's doubtful he can even be tracked down for delivery of what's basically her suicide letter. it's clear she desired a relationship with her dad but was abandoned. Neil: abusive asshole who rules the household with an iron fist. I'd be shocked if he hasn't abused Susan, and see little reason he wouldn't do it in front of Max (after all, we see him verbally and physically abuse his first wife in front of his son, in a bad fight over suspected lies/infidelity). in his grief over Billy, Neil and Susan have "bad fights" and he leaves the family. he's not missed, but it's still a second abandonment by a father figure. Billy: Max's peer example of guys in relationships: a sleazy, two-faced asshole who treats girls like trash and completely changes his persona to manipulate them for sex or whatever else he wants (Max appears to be all too aware of his sex life and is disgusted). abandonment issues with him too: a good relationship with a big brother would've meant the world to her, but he rejected and probably abused her for years; her letter at his grave reads "ever since you left" - same word she used for Neil.

Max desperately hopes Lucas is an exception to the rule, but these are the behaviors she would naturally fear from any guy she dates.

Max is especially terrified of being abandoned (and that she deserves it)

to be abandoned over and over can naturally leave a kid wondering if it's their fault, if this is the treatment they deserve.

Lucas is overall quite honest, and there's not an abusive bone in his body. the most realistic one of Max's fears to apply to him is that someday he'll leave her, too.

and that's the worst fear Vecna chooses to voice in Lucas's form: realizing he's been wrong about her, that she's fundamentally bad and he's glad she's going to be killed. a gutting abandonment from the guy she most wants to trust.

Vecna-Susan also tells Max that she deserves what's going to happen to her, that she's "broken everything" and that her letters can't make things right. because he's in full Vecna mode when he says it, I just took those as very general condemnations at first. but they hurt even worse when I remember they're still coming from "Susan" - revealing that Max feels she has broken her family.

she wanted Billy to die, and she figures Neil left because Billy died, so that's two of the abandonments being "her fault". if that's true, Max would also feel responsible for destroying her mom's life - having cost her her marriage, home, and financial security.

in her addictions Susans has, in an emotional sense, abandoned Max just like all her other family members - and Max fears she deserves it. how desperate she was for this hug... :(

anyway, back to lumax: let's reexamine those s3 dumpings

what exactly did Lucas even do? we never find out.

on first watch, I took "boyfriends lie" at face value and assumed Lucas got caught fibbing. but that doesn't fit so well.

he's maybe the party member most invested in "friends don't lie". honesty to his friends is a pillar of his character. again, he caused friction in 2 because he so strongly prioritized honesty to Max. to assume based on one line from an unreliable narrator that he randomly became a huge liar over the summer is unfair.

via their counseling of Mike and El, Lucas and Max tell us what's been going on with lumax

Max tells El:

He'll come crawling back to you in no time, begging for forgiveness. I guarantee him and Lucas are totally wallowing in self-pity and misery right now like "ohh, I hope they take us back!"

I think we all clocked that one: Max thinks that because El followed her technique, Mike will come crawling back - because Lucas has come crawling back to her several times now.

but I haven't seen much discussion about how the spying scene (which "he'll come crawling back" is paired with) shows Lucas assuring Mike that he's been dumped for an unfair and illogical reason because that's what Max has done to him several times now.

M: I just don't understand what I did to deserve this. L: Nothing. Nothing. That's my whole point. You are the victim here. Stop asking rational questions. M: I know, I know, you're right. Because women act on emotion and not logic. L: Precisely. It's a totally different species.

Max is pissed. but has she been irrational, acting on emotion and not logic, and dumping him for no apparent reason all summer? signs point to yes.

and I understand Lucas saying this. it's not pure misogyny out of nowhere; he's been told that his mother expects gifts and apologies even when wrong, Max acts that way too, and now so apparently does El. all of his examples concur that this is just how women in relationships are. (Charles Sinclair how many relationships will your advice destroy lmao)

both Max and Lucas are bringing preconceptions from home.

Max acts this way on purpose

I don't think she's dumped him over truly nothing (although that's how it looks to him). I'm thinking she blows real, minor missteps out of proportion.

any time Lucas does something slightly insensitive, it looks like the first red flag to her, and instead of communicating in a constructive way, she just throws up this "boys aint shit" force field and dumps him. of course she doesn't truly want to be rid of him, she's just sorta snapping the leash.

I think Max knows what she's doing. I think she wants to keep Lucas always on his back foot, because the relationship isn't as scary if she feels like she holds all the power.

she's always trying to cover up fear/sorrow with anger, because anger gives an illusion of control. and she's been conscious of that anger, and the fact that it's unfair to Lucas, since the beginning - that's what she apologized for on the bus. "I guess I'm angry too, and I'm sorry."

she was mature enough at 13 to see the error in her behavior, but still not mature enough by 15 to fix it. every season has just been a slightly different flavor of "leave before you get left".

so, that's my take on Max's relationship behavior. but again, explanations aren't excuses. Lucas deserves to be treated well, and that's not happening.

what needs to happen?

simply maturing more will help them both a lot. being 15 is a terrible condition in of itself.

I don't see Lucas dumping Max's ass, but she should take her own advice before the relationship continues: explain herself and fix the garbage parts of her behavior.

before Max can be the girlfriend Lucas deserves, she needs a substantial period of physical and emotional healing.

she needs renewed connections with her friends and family, and a lot of general growth in the area of communication and processing her feelings.

in regards to Lucas, she needs to work on her trust issues, and learn to extend him the treatment warranted by his behavior, not the behavior she fears from others. she needs to learn that "friend" and "girlfriend" aren't mutually exclusive, that real friendship is the key to their relationship, and is a two-way street.

any Billy racism/assault acknowledgement would be better years late than never, especially if grieving Billy continues to be a focus in front of Lucas.

Lucas could also use a little work

the relentless positivity doesn't serve Max well. often it turns out to be empty reassurances which make her feel let down (so, a soft version of the lies she fears). she let him know in 4x4 that this hurts her, but he kept doing it for the rest of the season.

but the big one is that "happy wife happy life" doesn't serve him well, and rewarding unfair treatment perpetuates the problem. yes, the ability to compromise, swallow pride, and be the bigger person are healthy parts of a relationship, as well as the willingness to extend grace to your partner/friend when they're struggling. but it always being on one designated person is a recipe for dissatisfaction and resentment.

Lucas should voice to Max that he, too, has struggles and needs support. I'd like to see him pursue outside interests unapologetically.

no, this isn't an exhaustive list, and I don't expect to see everything fixed at once, or explicitly processed onscreen. but I sure hope we get some evidence of change, and that this has all been part of an arc.

for instance, I'd love for the final lumax reconciliation to be Max asking Lucas to take her back.

I kind of hope not to see them officially together until the very end. in fact I'd so much rather see ST end on a good Max / Lucas friendship with an implied romantic future than jump back to the status quo.

l don't want to see lumax until it's a new lumax, based on real, reciprocal friendship.

[jujuprincesinhasofia]

the trailer (no spoilers)

Hey!

To anyone who needs to hear this (especially my future self):

The trailer probably won’t include any Byler moments. In fact, it might highlight the other ship instead

I’m excited for the trailer, and if we do get to see Mike and Will, that’s a win. But keep in mind: Mike and El are definitely going to have scenes together in s5, and that's healthy!

So if that’s what shows up in the trailer, it's fine ❤️ it does not erase the character's arcs + What's more important than the trailer is the recap, and those do show Byler a lot

A Look Back at Previous Trailers, u can skip to what's the point

Season 1 The trailer opens with the D&D game (+the first two lines of the entire show are from Mike and Will). Will disappears. We see Joyce and Hopper, the boys searching, Mike seeing El and saying “That’s not Will.” Mike and El talk, but every time Mike mentions her, it’s about Will. Jonathan and Nancy. Every couple is teased — except Steve, who doesn’t even appear even though he is dating Nancy

Season 2 Starts with El finding the waffle (she was surviving all by herself my baby(😭) Mike talks about Will. We see Jonathan and Nancy, Steve with the kids, Will and Mike, Hopper and Joyce. Later, Mike says “If anyone knows how to destroy this thing, it’s Will.” El appears near the end. Bob shows up (but never with Joyce). Mike and El do NOT appear together

BUT, in the TEASER for s2, Mike's voice calls "Eleven," and there's ZERO scenes with Will, and we all agree season two is Byler season, especially considering he stopped calling el once will was at the hospital

Season 3

Starts with Dustin’s return prank. Mike is literally positioned between El and Will twice. Jonathan/Nancy, Billy, Hopper then Joyce (but not together), Max and El, Lumax holding hands, and El/Max’s friendship is shown again. We do hear Mike’s voice talking to Will (BYLER FIGHT) and Hopper talking to Joyce.

They placed Mike looking back at Will's house (which is like almost last scene) — right at the start of the trailer. Then, five seconds before they end the trailer, Mileven kiss from episode 1.

This is to show trailers can't be trusted!!

Opens with Vecna’s voice and the clock. Max narrates to Billy (I’ve always felt this monologue could parallel Mike to Will but that's not what I'm here for rn). We get a glimpse of where everyone is in episode 1. Hopper in Russia. Will watching Mike and El skate. Mike watching El leave. Steve/Nancy (yes, no Jancy), Lucas hugging Max, Max floating. Big action scenes.

So what’s the point?

They’ve used misleading clips, taken scenes out of context, and more. Trailers are marketing, not storytelling. Sure, they can sometimes support a theory, but they shouldn’t, for example, be above foreshadowing as proof.

I won’t spoil anything here, don’t worry, but there’s a specific quote from Mike to El that leaked and will most likely be in the trailer. It's the kind of quote that seems made for the trailer too. And that’s totally fine!

I'm sorry if I missed anything, i'm sick :( and i never get sick so that's a bummer :( but yeah!!!

[milla-jordan]

possible coded mike scene getting vecnad ?? (ft. will) in episode 3

VECNA why are you here mike? what have you done?

[vecna closes in on mike, who isn’t bound by vines, he’s mocking his obliviousness]

MIKE i don’t know, i don’t know, i don’t know ! what’s happening?

[mike is backing away but not faster than vecna pproaches]

VECNA you know, mike. you’ve always known. you hide [pic of him and el], you run [mike biking away in Holly Jolly after seeing ‘wills’ body].

at this point vecnad is getting unbearably close to mike, he can taste his stench.

VECNA you leave. [airport hug scene] yet you always come back [flashes between mike and wills pov in cabin scene]. why? you’re so lost mike. they don’t need you. you’ve never needed yourself [cliff scene in season 1]. he doesn’t need you [cut to will panicking frantically trying to get mike out, similar to lumax ;)]

[cut back to mike. shaking his head, slow at first but rapidly faster as the music swells]

VECNA you’re so, so afraid, mike. i can stop that.

[mike looks on the verge of tears, his shoulders begin to slouch, he is giving in until— the camera snaps to will]

WILL mike! mike do you hear me?! you need to run! RUN! [an L cut as the camera snaps back to mike]

VECNA i can stop all of this.

the scene progresses similar to max’s in s4 ep4, but when mike gets out he is cold towards will. what did vecna show him that was so upsetting?

i imagine this scene in episode 3 as it leaves an episode of angst between them before lovers lake gate in episode 5! lmk what you think :)

[misterfibbly]

If Mileven is supposedly endgame, then why do we get ZERO moments from them together this season?

There are absolutely no scenes of them together, just them alone, having a moment or being couple-y in a way that doesn’t have either of them faking or lying to each other.

The first thing we see with both of them is El writing a letter to Mike, telling him about her life in Lenora, lying to him about it (what a great way to start off the season!! /s). Okay, but let’s give El the benefit of the doubt, maybe she’ll tell Mike as soon as they see each other, right?

Wrong.

Now, let’s get back to my original point about how they don’t have any scenes alone.

There’s a couple of scenes where we get them greeting each other, kissing (notice how Mike’s wearing sunglasses. Who’s to say he doesn’t have his eyes open under those? It certainly wouldn’t be the first time).

Also I’m not sure if it’s just me who sees this, but why does it seem like they’re trying to be as far away from each other as possible during that kiss?? Like lean into it a little if you really want it to seem like you like each other.

Oh look! We immediately see Jonathan in Will in the background (and Argyle in some frames) in a scene that’s supposedly a romantic reunion between Mike and El.

Mike is literally being DRAGGED right now, if he’s the one who got out of the car first, shouldn’t he be walking a bit more in the front? Oh and, of course, Will is in this scene too.

Will standing next to them as El lies to Mike about her friends. Will trailing behind them as they skate. Will eating with them. Will, Will, Will.

But wait — there actually is one scene where Mike and El are alone.

The fight! The only scene with just them, and the only scene where they show strong emotions for each other. Except it’s just El being angry at Mike, which she has every right to be, and she’s sad too. Mike seems distressed but he’s not nearly as upset as she is, and he’s showing absolutely no remorse either.

Even in the “love confession” scene, Will right there, and he’s the one who tells Mike to say “I love you” earlier in the van, Mike didn’t come to this conclusion himself, something he would have done if he really meant it and wanted to say it.

How the other couples are different

Jopper - Joyce spent the whole season looking for Hopper, Hopper spent the whole season missing Joyce and hoping she’s okay. Their reunion had emotional music playing they hugged for a long time and they kissed eventually too. The look in their eyes alone showed how much they care about each other.

Lumax - even though they were broken up for basically the whole season, they never stopped caring for each other and being there for each other. Lucas made sure Max was okay and continued to protect her. Max started to let Lucas back into her life and expressed that she needs him.

Even Jancy - they were separated for the whole season but we still got some lighthearted moments between them. They ranted to their friends about each other, and their meeting at the end was genuine and full of love.

Meanwhile, Byler…

They fought, too.

But they quickly made up.

I would add more pictures if I could, but my point is, Byler spent the whole season rebuilding their relationship. Mileven spent the whole season ignoring their issues. Byler had multiple heart to hearts, they continued to listen and understand each other, they worked together “as a team”.

[nothoughts-onlywomen]

you know what Lumax needs? yes, they obviously need to kiss, and kiss passionately. but I really want them to HUG. like a genuine, meaningful hug. she closes her eyes, he rocks her. they’re both sobbing. feeling at home again.

[steddieunderdogfics]

for friends to lovers theme weekend, i absolutely have to rec “i’ll be two steps on the water” by aliwrites07. it’s just absolutely gorgeous and more people should be obsessed with it

https://archiveofourown.org/works/41197821

i'll be two steps on the water by aliwrites07

Rating: Not Rated

29,153 words, 1/1 chapters

Archive Warning: Creator chose not to use

Tags: Falling In Love, Friends to Lovers, Queer Eddie Munson, Bisexual Steve Harrington, My Love, Max Mayfield is the Best, Maxine "Max" Mayfield & Eddie Munson Have a Sibling Relationship, Supportive Wayne Munson, First Kiss, Recreational Drug Use, eddie has scars too let steve love them, Eddie Munson Needs a Hug, Eddie Munson Lives, Disabled Maxine "Max" Mayfield, she’s half blind, Implied Lumax, because i love them, Title from a Kate Bush Song, Implied Sexual Content, Mechanic!Eddie Munson, mechanic!Max Mayfield, Love Confessions, Steve Harrington Loves Eddie Munson, Eddie Munson Loves Steve Harrington, i love these little fruits, im so proud of this

Summary:

Eddie doesn't remember much after he died. *** Or, Eddie Munson cheating death, learning to live, and finding love in the most unlikely of places.

Thanks for the rec!

This rec is a part of Theme Weekend. The theme this weekend is Friends to Lovers.

Know a fic that deserves extra love? Submit through our asks or the submission box!

[starry-eyed-steve]

Max taking the risk in season 2 is the reason she survived so long, and it will (hopefully) be the reason she gets saved in season 5.

I love the angsty lumax scenes comparisons/parallels like every other person, but it's not true that Max getting involved led to her being in a coma in s4. I think people want an angsty Lucas arc for the last season where he blames himself for everything, but I need someone to reassure him it's not because he got Max involved in s2. I believe his guilt will mostly stem from him not being able to stop Jason in time, letting Max go through with the half-baked plan and, in general, letting Max isolate in the months leading up to Vecna. (Which is already enough. Someone needs to give him a hug in s5)

Max being part of the group by accepting the risk, actually saved her life in multiple ways.

In s3, the chance of her dying due to Billy would have been significantly higher than it actually was. Billy would have gotten possessed either way. It was Karen's fault, not Max or the party, that he was at the wrong place at the right time. If Max hadn't known about the Mindflayer or El, she wouldn't have suspected anything, thus making her an easy target to get flayed as well.

If she were to survive s3 on her own, Vecna would have still targeted her because she felt guilty about Billy dying not because she witnessed it but because she wished that something would happen to him to make the abuse she suffered from him stop. And when something did happen, she blamed herself. Her complicated relationship with Billy is the reason why she got cursed. It was never because she took the risk. Her issues stem from outside of the supernatural things. Without Lucas and her friends, she wouldn't have survived the first attack. She would have been confused like Chrissy, Patrick, and Fred, not knowing what was going on and then dying a horrific death.

Taking the risk ensured her to live as long as she did because she had the opportunity to get information that were vitol for her physical well-being.

But taking the risk also gave her the opportunity to live a more fulfilled life. In the beginning of s2, Max was super closed off. She was scared to get close to anyone because of her brother. He was threatening to harm people if Max disobeyed him (aka him trying to run the party over as a scare tatic to get her back under control after the argument). So she pushed Dustin and Lucas away. It was easier and safer for everyone involved. If we take Runaway Max as canon, then Billy actually physically harmed one of her friends, so it's understandable that Max tries her hardest to stay away in the beginning. Only due to Lucas and Dustin constant persuading and pushing she opened up a bit more. And then when Lucas told her the huge secret she was suddenly a part of something so big she had to allow herself to trust others because her life was dependent on it. It gave her the opportunity to be honest and vulnerable to an outsider, which also then led her to free herself from her brother's control by the end of s2. Meeting Steve and the rest and seeing that someone was willing to protect her from her brother's abuse gave her the strength to set boundaries, which then allowed her to be happier and more open. She met El and found amazing friends in the party, which she wouldn't be close otherwise. It also allowed her to have a different relationship with Billy. In s3, they seemed to be more relaxed before everything went south.

Without getting involved, she probably would still be the closed off girl she was at the beginning of s2. She would still be under Billy's control until he died. And then she would be alone without anyone really looking out for her, which would lead to her definite death in s4.

Lucas saved her physically and emotionally by giving her the opportunity to take the risk. And because of that, she can still be saved in s5.

[sterlingarcher23]

Max's memories are forshadowing: ElMax & Lumax

Inventive foreshadowing creates a sense of unity in a story even when the audience may not be consciously aware of the foreshadowing and payoff., David Trottier

Sort of. The happy memories actually give us the basic structure of Max's character arc in regards to relationships in Season 5. (As far as there is scene material because I think there's something else.)

Now the first thing is Lucas & Max from S4, but then they start to show us several scenes but completely out of order.

Lucas "I'm right here" (at her bedside - S4 or 5?), Swallowing the red Skittle/the ghost like Pac-Man mid flight ("You were wearing that yellow benny's burgers t-shirt and it was so big it almost swallowed you whole")=consumption of a ghost, followed by the linking sequence, going back to S2 apso out of order, the boys meeting the killer & Lucas and Dustin teaming with Max, the ghost trap, photos of ElMax, like frozen in time (Doctor Who=single moment in time). Lucas and Max when he calls her Madmax (like Mad Max Rockatansky), again ElMax together ....

...even Mike appears (a talk between him & Max like Kota and Lucy having a conversation?), foreshadowing the movie date, ElMax hugging, Lumax not unhappy and, Highfive! Winners.

Lover in the mind - lover in the physical world.

Lucas speaks to the dying (physical), El speaks to the going (mind).

Both have patterns that need another verse in order to rhyme bc of a tiny change midway through (similar to a certain D&D bridge puzzle😉)

Elumax Endgame.

Byler on the left, ElMax on the right, both when Will or Max respectively, have their possession phase.

Oh, and the movie date scene is a basic story writing technique: a promise. And this needs a payoff. The question isn't IF but HOW. (And how you get abilities is been established in Season 4.)

It's you and me won't be unhappy.... Promise, progress, payoff.

So, they made a promise, are now (with the revival) in the process of a progress which will be added through the way how Max will wake up....

...and this will get a payoff. Simple. Right now, most can't imagine how, given the circumstances even though the writers gave us the rules for doing it and every foreshadowing possible that will lead to a payoff. Max can't feel nor see - both! So, either both will be mended or none. Excluding one is bad writing. - So, its both. We learned how, therefore it's not a Deus ex machina, and we will learn why. Max only needs to take his, I mean her medicine. Darn pronouns.

That payoff is only possible through ElMax and note how they use sequences with them in which they are physically close to one another after the mall scene in which they link, like they are...inseparable.

Here separated...

...after this they are combined. Linked. "Love goes through the stomach"

It's all One and One for all = 11

A bit dated (admittedly)

[freakaz0-id]

i need a s5 lumax hug. i need a s5 lumax hug where they hold onto each other for dear life, gripping at each others' clothing so hard that it's almost as if the other lets go, one might disappear. i need a s5 lumax hug where they start tearing up. i need a s5 lumax hug where they both bring down their walls entirely and just melt into each other and cry. i need a s5 lumax hug where when i watch it i start crying. i just need a meaningful s5 lumax hug. :(

[love-byers]

What byler scenes do you think we’ll get in season 5 (a kiss, holding hands, a rain fight, dating, ect)

oh god i honestly have no idea what to expect

going off of the other couples, i'm hoping we'll get an accidental hand hold because of a jump scare. im PRAYING we get a dramatic fight, perhaps in the rain again. i don't think they'll be dating until the very end, perhaps in an epilogue since the duffers said nothing will be left up to interpretation regarding who the endgame couples are. i think there'll be at least one kiss. the ST writers dont make couples they actually care about kiss a lot. lumax have kissed on screen one time, jancy had 1 makeout and 2 kisses. jopper had one makeout. because it doesn't take a bunch of physical intimacy for the audience to like the couple. so i dont think we'll get a lot of byler kisses. maybe one in the main plot and one in the epilogue (if there is one). id be fine with that. since it was just basically confirmed s5 is set in 1989 meaning the party will be 17-18, i feel like that would make the writers more comfortable potentially having a byler heat-of-the-moment makeout or something like that, similarly to jancy. and as im typing this i remembered they made milkvan make out twice in s3 when they were 14 so i guess they don't care that much but i hope you get what i'm saying lmao. but yeah i won't be disappointed if there's no makeout.

i also need them to hug. like pls. like give us a "Omg i thought you were hurt/dead im gonna smother you in a hug now"

interlocking pinkies in a setting where they can't do PDA is always a great trope

running from something while holding hands is also 10/10

really i just want longing stares and intense eye contact that is shattered by an interruption

and i say all of this but honestly i have 0 idea of what we'll get. i have no idea what direction they're going with s5 byler and how itll be developed, but im hoping and praying it's treated as normally as the other couples are and isn't lesser just cause its queer

[chaosgremlinmunson]

STWG prompt: Birthday party

Pairings: Lumax and Henderhop

Jane and Dustin woke up slowly that morning, Dustin turned to Jane a smile on his face as he took in her halo of curls on the pillow, her face still lax with sleep and leaned in to steal a kiss on her forehead.

“Mmm, good morning.” She mumbled, her arms wrapping around his neck and pulling him down to kiss again.

“Good morning, Angel. Happy birthday, my beautiful wife.” He kissed the tip of her nose before pulling her from bed with him, “The party is coming by in a few. They wanted to celebrate with us before baby Max was born.”

Jane reached her hand down cradling her prominent bump, and smiled, “We still have to tell Max that we're naming our daughter after her.”

“Who do you think is going to be most excited, Lucas or Max?” Dustin mumbled around his toothbrush.

“Not sure, babe, I need help.” Jane said pouting at her pants she couldn't bend to get on her legs, “Maxie is making it impossible to dress myself. Maybe I should just wear my dress, but I want pants!”

Dustin walked up behind her and cradled her bump kissing her neck and shoulders, and lifted her bump for a moment to alleviate some of her back pain. She sank back into him, and sighed. After a few moments he helped her dress, pressed kisses to her stomach and smiled up at her. The doorbell sounded out in the silence, and Dustin stood hooking his arm around Jane and helping her to the couch where her pregnancy nest was set up. Giant pillows, and fuzzy blankets all making a cocoon for her so he had prime comfort while her husband flitted around to help her with anything she needed.

He opened the door to greet all of their friends and laughed when all he saw of Max was her red hair over a massive pile of gifts in her arms, Lucas beside her with bags of food in one hand and a cake in the other. Max rushed into the house setting her hoard onto the kitchen table before coming over to where Jane was sitting curling up next to her.

“How's my favorite person, and my baby doing?” Max asked leaning in to hug Jane who giggled her hand landing on her bump again.

“We're doing great. Maxie here is sassy as can be already, just like her auntie.” Max's eyes widened and then she broke into a grin.

“You named her after me?” She whispered, her hand also cradling Jane's bump as her eyes got misty.

“Who better than the girl who fought the devil and survived?” Dustin responded as they walked into the living taking the arm chairs across from the loves of their lives.

[yourlocalbadgerscales]

Yeah?? Those are our analyses of the situation??? The whole point of analysing is looking deeper into things, not just going with what seems the most obvious??????? (Sorry if I seem pissed off I’m just confused)

I get that Mike’s just a kid and he’s in his first relationship, but this is FICTION. Fiction isn’t supposed to be hyperrealistic, or I mean some fiction might be but sometimes it’s just a little weird. Mileven are supposed to be the cute main couple, and yet something is just… off. Hell, thet barely spend any time together in the show! And when they do it’s like 20% cute moments, 30% awkwardness and confusion because Mike can’t tell El that he loves her, 40% Mike making awkward jokes and stuff to distract El from the fact that he never asks her personal things or tells her he loves her and 10% them fighting (Don’t pay attention to the percent I kinda bullshitted the numbers but yeah). Again, this is fiction and the main couple in a show should be wholesome and cute and they should have a lot of screen time together, right? Yet Mileven feels kinda lazily done to me, yk? Like the Duffers don’t even care that much.

What bothers me REALLY much is the part I mentioned about them never having any deep discussions! They talk about Vecna and allat Upside Down shit, they make out and they fight. Honestly the only times I saw any chemistry between them was during s1, before they got together, and them reuniting in the end of s4 was very wholesome… but that felt so much more platonic, somehow. They hugged and cried and told each other they’d missed each other, but so did El and Will, and they’re siblings! (Basically.)

And then we compare all this to Lumax, who constantly comfort each other and show each other that they’re there for the other person, who smile a lot around each other and only kissed once! Because they don’t need kisses to show the audience that they love each other, it’s very clear from their interactions alone. Their relationship is super wholesome, and even though they had some miscommunication due to Max not telling Lucas how she was doing after Billy’s death they quickly resolved that. Lumax are main couple material.

The only couples we see where one of them struggles to say “I love you” to the other one are Stancy and Mileven. Nancy struggles to say it to Steve because she doesn’t actually love him romantically, and Mike struggles to say it to El because…?

Now I know Milevens think the confession was romantic and that Mike is just struggling to say it because… actually idk that part of how Milevens reason but I assume y’all have a theory. Bylers have other theories! And I don’t see anything wrong with that.

Edit: Was reading this through and I would like to add that in Mike’s monologue he said that he knew from the moment he saw El that he loved her… and Finn later said Mike DEFINITELY didn’t have romance on his mind in the beginning. Which I personally think was pretty clear from the start, considering that Mike was more than willing to let El be taken to a mental hospital… don’t get me wrong, I think Mike really loves El and started doing so early on in s1. BUT! Not ROMANTICALLY! Finn’s confirmation that Mike, in fact, DIDNT like El romantically from the start just proves that Mike lied in his monologue. Not very romantic if you ask me… why would he even do that????

Imo Mike isn’t rlly a bad person to El or Will or anyone, really… I’ve come to that conclusion. HOWEVER to me it seems like his and El’s relationship doesn’t work. And they seemed much happier in each other’s company in s1 when they were FRIENDS. But that’s just me, and again, your opinion is your opinion and that’s fine.

Will needing Mike to grow as a person is BULLSHIT and now I’m mad about that. Thanks for submitting that ss! It was eye opening.

So yeah if you couldn’t tell I disagree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with that statement because wtf, Will does not *need* Mike and I think that him giving Mike that painting in s4 was his way of confessing his love withouT actually making Mike aware of what he was doing, and also I think that was Will “ripping of the Band-Aid” and deciding to try and move on. Which could be a good move, if that was the Duffers’s intention (although I don’t understand why they would even make Will to be in love with Mike to begin with, if that was the case)… so why do I think that’s not the case?

Well. I think it would be really cruel for the Duffers to even make Will have a crush on Mike to begin with, to put him in the background of a bunch of Mileven scenes as if to show the audience “he’s here, he’s seeing this and he’s suffering knowing that he can never have that with Mike”… and DONT GET ME STARTED on how cruel it is to make Will sacrifice himself and his love to strengthen Mike enough for Mike to confess his love for El!

Yk what. I’m gonna get started on that anyways because IM SO PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS OKAY?? That would be plain CRUEL! To make Will and Mike spend a lot of time together in s4, and then make Will lie when giving Mike the painting to save Mike’s and El’s relationship. Mike didn’t even seem to want to save it, tbh… HE was the one who threw El’s last note to him into the trash can because Will told him it was not gonna change just because he kept staring at it, it was MIKE who said that his and El’s fight was a fight you “[couldn’t] come back from”, and Will was the one who convinced him that whatever it was he hadn’t said to El yet, he could say it when they found her. And then, in the van, it was WILL who convinced Mike to try to solve things with El… by lying about the painting and telling Mike that it was commissioned by El.

Having Will lie and his sacrifice being what saved Mileven’s relationship would be a veeery bold move by the Duffers if they intended to make Mileven endgame. What was the reason?! Sure, if they wanted Will to be queer then that would have been awesome, IF he fell in love with someone else! Why Mike, of all people, if the show is just gonna end with Mike and El staying together and Will being forced to move on? That’s just making him suffer more than necessary throughout the whole show, not to mention how it’s SUCH a slap in the face for queer people who already struggle with feeling like they’ll never find love just because they’re queer. Giving Will the same ending is just another painful “reminder” to us queer people of how unloveable we are and that we’re destined to never find love. It’s basically just shoving it in our faces.

He’s always there in the background it’s seriously crazyyy

So yeah, making Will NOT end up with Mike would be cruel and such bad writing, not because he ‘needs’ Mike (even though it’s clear in his speech in the van that that’s what he believes) but because he needs to know that he is NOT UNABLE TO FIND LOVE. And I think a satisfying arc for him would be realising that he doesn’t need Mike and he can be his own person and trying his best to distance himself from Mike in the beginning of s5 to do so.

And Mike… throughout the whole series he keeps needing encouragement from his friends to solve things with El! He needed help from Lucas and Dustin in s3, he needed Will’s help in s4… and none of them is more experienced than he is. Why is it he needs their constant reassurance that solving things with El is the right thing to do? Whereas with Will, things seem to be way more easy for him. All of their interactions are just… idk, it seems so much more natural.

That is until season 3, when he blurts out “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!” when Will didn’t even suggest the opposite… and at the airport in s4 (reminder that Will is the one with a canon crush on Mike here, not the other way around), Will went in for a hug with a wide smile on his face and open arms and Mike avoided it for NO REASON and made things awkward as hell. It would make so much more sense for the Duffers to make WILL awkwardly hug MIKE, wouldn’t it?

And then Mike was acting strangely cold towards Will when he asked him what he had brought with him… the painting. Reminder, El had told him all about Will painting a lot and how she through it was for a girl he liked, so Mike knew all of that. As far as he was concerned, Will had brought said painting for SOME GIRL with him to the airport, but instead of just asking Will about “the girl” and teasing him, Mike just acted really weird about it and didn’t bring it up at all.

I could go into even more detail about everything that went down at Rink-o-Mania too, but I won’t rn so dw.

But THE VAN SCENE! Will gave Mike the painting, and again, Mike was aware of how it was allegedly for someone Will liked because El had told him in her letter how Will was acting strange… (one could argue that Mike is the one acting strange but ANYWAYS—) so when Will gave him that painting, shouldn’t it have made him realise some things?

Well, maybe it did! I’ve seen many excellent analyses on Finn’s microexpressions in the entire van scene, and they all suggest that Mike did, in fact, realise what the painting and the speech really meant. Reminder: the van scene took an ENTIRE DAY to film! I wonder why…? And I wonder why Mike’s occasional lip glances and REALLY TELLING microexpressions still made it to the final cut by accident… hm, what if they weren’t accidental?

If Mike didn’t like Will back, wouldn’t the most logical thing be for him to go “Hey Will, what the hell?? El doesn’t play D&D and I know for a fact she isn’t involved in any of this! Why are you lying?!?”… but he didn’t. He just stared at Will without saying a word until he’d finished his speech with a dazed look on his face, his breath hitched a few times… you get it.

(He even glanced over at Will’s arm touching his randomly… hmm…)

Do with that what you will.

Of course I understand that Byler might not be for everyone (understatement of the century…), but I do think it’s what the Duffers have in mind. And I would be totally fine with Byler not being endgame, if it wasn’t for all the hints towards it actually being endgame. I don’t mind shipping a non canon couple AS LONG as it isn’t foreshadowed to be just for the writers not to make it happen!

For example: blocking. It’s a familiar concept for everyone who loves analysing media in the form of TV shows and movies.

I won’t get into detail but there’s one example of blocking I think is very telling, and it’s this scene:

The end of a season usually reflects and foreshadows what’s gonna happen in the next season. And here? Mike has confessed his love to El and supposedly solved their conflict. They should be sharing wholesome moments and tearing up and hugging each other tightly and shit… But what does El do? She walks to the front… ALONE. Whilst Mike and Will stand next to each other. And the other two pairs that surround them are CANON COUPLES! The Duffers could easily have chosen to put Jonathan and Will next to each other, and Mike and Nancy, since they’re all siblings, but NO! This is what they did. And blocking isn’t some made up thing Bylers have come up with, it’s an actual thing that’s used in all TV shows and films.

Oh and also, El picks up dead flowers that SUSPICIOUSLY enough resemble the ones Mike gave her at the airport (with a note saying “To El, FROM Mike”, mind you)… but ig that specific piece of proof is more arguable? OH AND! Allegedly Will and Mike are gonna spend a whole lot of time together in s5, as you might know. And yeah, sure, Mike and El have that rooftop scene and most definitely a whole lot more scenes than that… but I like to think those scenes are gonna be wholesome in all their platonicness, because I miss s1 Elmike SO FUCKING BADDDDDDDSHEHISHSJS

I’ll read that thread about El and independence asap, possibly later today, thank youuu! I’ve not read many El- related analyses yet, so I bet this will be an interesting read, at least I hope so. I have to admit that I’ve mostly focused on Will and Mike, even though I do love El’s character so so much, and I kinda feel bad for that… anyways THANK YOY

But yeah uh, this got out of hand. Basically, if I ignore the fact that I think Mileven is kiiinda toxic, I still don’t think they’ll be endgame and I’m very confident of this. The only reason I still have Byler doubt is because there’s always a chance of queerbait. Also SORRY because ik you don’t care at all abt any of this shi ig I just needed to get some things off my chest and it just happened to be in this thread and I’m sorry for that…

Oh and yeah I also hate when people mischaracterise Mike, I just think we have wildly different opinions on what is mischaracterisation and what isn’t, and that’s okay.

There are really horrible people on both “sides” (out of lack of better words) I suppose. There are people on both sides who refer to El as “Eleven” or “011” which is EXTREMLY dehumanising (I’m still a bit mad at Mike for pulling the “Eleven” card in their s4 argument of lack of anything else to say that was ri his favour… anyways). There are Milevens who want to see El getting pregnant in the end of s5????? And a Mileven marriage???? There are also Bylers who are weirdly fixated on sex between Will and Mike. There are both Bylers and Milevens who seem to hate Mike, which is so odd????? And yeah, etc etc. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of problematic people in this fandom so it’s impossible for us all to get along.

So yeah ig that’s what I wanted to have said. And also that I don’t think Mike is a bad person. Yasss. Byeee.

How it feels when Milkvans completely dissolve Both Mike and El’s characters, Turning Mike into an asshole for no reason and making El seemingly not being able to survive without Mike. It kills me

[hersheyalmond]

(warning: spoiler [close ur eyes when u scroll lol])

They had so much potential, they didn't have to die like that.

He could've been such good friends with Will and played D&D together.

Steve would finally have a co-parent and it's such a good twist that Steve would turn out to be bisexual.

He completes the fruity four!

He could've toughened up for season 5 and become an additional protector.

His death didn't have a strong impact and it wasn't necessary for him to die.

He could've had a chance to be proven innocent in season 5 and not painted as a murderer/cult leader.

He just died for a town that hates him. Not fair.

Everyone loves Eddie Munson. This character is very precious.

HE'S SUCH A WELL WRITTEN CHARACTER!

(ctto of the pic collage)