#lucrecia's lament

[that-weird-skeleton-bastard]

I drew alternate outfits for Raz Psychonauts two!

inspired by @dailyraz 's post :P

Close-ups below! 👇🏼

i am very proud of myself for that Hollis' hot streak design

haha Joker card Raz go brrr

[jnixz]

Knit part of Lucrecia's Lament

ref'd from this photoset bc uh new computer things

one thing im learning from watercolor is how difficult details can be, and how maybe i need to look things from far away instead of closer

[tehrevving]

Wondering why you decided to not include the "Lament of the Damned sidequest" in the fic.

Good Question! Feel free to keep sending in questions!

I actually am going to write this one AND have it finish with Coffin Fucking 🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤 (FINALLY. I am so horny for this you all have no idea (or maybe you do lmao fuckkkkkkk))

I really wanted to include this sidequest but from the 'Chaos Theory' perspective, it only makes sense to include it after Reader knows a little bit more about Vincent's past, and has seen more of his body. (specifically something that was around his neck under his clothes lmao)

I don't like writing cutscenes/quests etc verbatim straight from the games. We've already played them, or watched a playthrough, so we already know what happens. If I'm going to write a scene that's already in the game, then I want to add stuff to it, either with extra scenes, conversations or description.

When I think about writing that sidequest, the things I want to specifically explore are more about Lucrecia, the experiments that happened at the manor, and what happened to Vincent. Talking about those things, with enough context that Reader can start putting some pieces together, only makes sense if she knows more about Vincent.

I felt like it would seem weird if after the Gold Saucer, where there's a rush to get to the Temple of the Ancients, they just stopped and did random sidequests. It's fine in a game, and in an 'interlude' type chapter, but just not in the main fic.

So look forward to this one

[blow-it-to-smithereens]

I had to combine some of the levels to have enough room. Comment which one you prefer!

[monstrous-angels]

Just a friendly little reminder to everyone:

Ever Crisis seems to have activated a lot of trauma for a lot of people. With several sides clashing at each other over the figures in our favorite little boy's life who failed him when they had the chance to get him out.

It is important to take stock in how we feel about this stuff and acknowledge what biases are currently active in our mind. Are they from our own experiences in life, or are they part of the intended portrayal by the authors of Final Fantasy VII? How does their handling of certain subjects make you feel? Does the behavior of the characters within the confines of the narrative touch you in some way?

Ever Crisis is taking on heavy themes of abuse.. The story has been gloves off all the way so far. And I feel the reaction to this is particularly pronounced because of the slow burn it has taken to get to this point. Literally over 20 years we've been wondering just what Sephiroth was lamenting about down in that basement.

Lots of people appear to be mired in hate for the figures whose action or inaction lead to this result in the story. Understand that Lucrecia and Hojo are just figures in a narrative and there is room for nuance in the interpretation of each. Frankly some of the greatest portrayals in fandom (such as CrimsonSun's portrayal of Hojo) can be really compelling and in my opinion even surpass the original.

Its a story, everybody. And more importantly a story told by people who get excited about fan engagement and so far don't appear to have extremely problematic takes that make indulging in the fandom feel like an exercise in compartmentalization! It is perfectly acceptable to create fanwork that rights these wrongs for you! The devs love it, the fandom loves it and twitter can get it's shit together and realize you were right about Sephiroth this whole time :D

Just don't argue with each other please. We're all here for the same reason ♥.

[altocat]

I actually love Lucrecia as a character because despite DOC’s writing, she is still a subversion of the classic, redundant “victimized and martyred mother” trope. I think that is what they had planned in the original drafts, for her to be someone forced into the horrible position of bearing enhanced children, with Sephiroth being one of them.

Usually this trope also has the mother being the sacrificial lamb that dies trying to protect their child, and being a totally selfless angelic Madonna figure with no flaws and their only character trait being their pure, motherly love for their child. Oh and they have no agency. (See: Disney mothers).

Personally, I am tired of this cliche and I love that Lucrecia was someone that was desperate to prove others wrong and had a lot of emotional issues that led her to make horrific mistakes with real consequences. She lost her baby because she chose to trust people that wanted weapons and scientific advancements at the cost of human life. She made that choice and it cost her son.

Her remorse, hopelessness, self-loathing…it is very realistic and believable. To make things worse, she clearly loved her child and had some point where she realized it. She calls him her “dear, dear child” in the OG and dreams of him, she begs to see him, to know what happened to him. All of her laments over her past mistakes are valid and painful

It also makes Seph looking for her all his life even more tragic because his mother did love him and want him, but she was the one that tore them apart ultimately because of her decisions. She’s the one that hurt him by letting his life be violated from the womb. It stabs at the heart so much more than the age-old “my selfless mother sacrificed herself for me and I wish I could still be with her” cliche.

Seph has a missing mother that could have been with him, but she’s not because of every one of the awful circumstances that she brought herself into. They both want and need each other, but it’s hopeless.

Lucrecia made a huge mistake and she and Sephiroth both paid dearly for it. It’s so tragically human and real. I love Lucrecia for her complex story in this way. People should stop just hating on her and try to see the unique aspects of her story.

^^^^ All of this.

It's just a tragedy. A complete tragedy at every angle. But while Lucrecia is despicable, part of me WANTS to see mother and child reunite. Because none of this had to be this way. And their separation from each other is the very thing that kicks all of this into motion.

[whelmed-justwhelmed]

Thoughts about Vincent Valentine and some of his struggles

Some miscellaneous notes before the actual substance of this post.

Loosely inspired by / based on this post, might suggest reading it before my own for a better understanding of the perspectives of the ideas in this post, though not strictly necessary as I think it’s still comprehensible without doing so. This post was made to my understanding + my current interpretation + what I can remember of things at the moment. Anyways here’s my maybe somewhat rambling thoughts, this is what I’ve got thus far. ( @sephirthoughts ask and you shall receive.)

After seeing and being inspired by the previously mentioned post I got to thinking about what I felt to be an interesting character development opportunity for Vincent. The basic premise being how Vincent’s situation, mostly in relation to himself and some of the things that have happened to him in the past, could potentially improve if he could at least start to reconcile his views of things compared to the objective realities. I feel like a step like this could help him to have a healthier perspective and at least somewhat improve his general quality of life.

Now it’s known how feelings such as guilt and regret among other such ones weigh heavily on him, of which a significant amount stem from his time as a bodyguard for the scientists of shinra manor. Although I do acknowledge these things aren’t the only ones that weigh on him and that my proposal of reconciliation is not the only thing that could be done to help his situation, much of his suffering specifically does seem to directly or indirectly stem from that time, his perspective of it, and of how it all relates to him. So with that perspective in mind, I think it’s a good place to start (at least for this hypothetical Vincent character development scenario).

Vincent is the sort where I want to (respectfully) gently grab him by the shoulders and shake a bit going, “It’s not your fault, it wasn’t your fault, it wasn’t your responsibility, you did about as much as you could for the situation, It. Wasn’t. Your. Fault.” Sadly though it seems (at least to me I feel) he’s generally not at a point where such a message would really get through to him in any meaningful or lasting way, so then that led me to wonder, what sorts of things might get him to that point? And what would the process look like?

I feel like he would probably need some sort of external prompting to actually properly start the process and that said process would be a gradual one. Not entirety sure how the prompting would start and be sustained though. Perhaps for example as something to start with, something like the moment in the lament of the damned side quest in rebirth where there’s brief vague discussion of the manor scientists and Barrett expresses how he thinks Lucrecia must not have been all that much better than Hojo causing Vincent to get defensive about her. A gradual process of stuff that challenges him like others questioning things and being faced with tangible evidence of the past, something that challenges him and he actually starts to stop and more seriously consider that perspective.

Here’s where the basic premise as previously mentioned really comes in. I feel Vincent’s situation could potentially improve if he could start to reconcile his perspective and feelings regarding what happened then and the objective reality of it. Challenges and consideration could lead to some acknowledgment that those two perspectives can coexist with each other, that he doesn’t have to choose one over the other.

In regards to Lucrecia, while not always exactly the most pleasant way to think of her, he can still feel fondly towards her and her memory while also thinking a bit more critically about how her actions and the choices she’s made have had serious and more often than not harmful consequences, especially about the harm done to him directly or indirectly. He could still care about her, albeit a likely less idealized version of her, and hold her a bit more accountable for the harm she’s caused. In regards to Vincent himself, it could significantly improve his overall view of himself and perhaps by extension general quality of life. Potential benefits being things like generally improving his mental state, the more specific parts of that could be things like better self worth, less self loathing, at least a bit of self forgiveness, generally starting to be able to take some of the blame off of himself. As such it could help him start to recognize he’s largely not responsible or at fault for what happened (and that he was a victim of the circumstances at that point more than anything?). It could help facilitate him being able to cope with it all a bit better, perhaps even heal the mental / emotional wounds a bit.

All that said, I highly doubt all this would be easy for him to do, I think he’s going to have to struggle for it. Like I’ve said, I think it would be a slow and gradual process that challenges him to think more critically and change his perspective to eventually at least start to understand that he’s not the one in the wrong, such a process would take time and effort. It would also involve a lot of difficult emotions, what emotions, in what context, and how they come up, I don’t really have as much of an answer for at the moment as I feel it depends on how one would imagine the reconciliation process and things as a whole would play out. I’m not necessarily saying I want to see him break down or something like that per se, but I would like for him to have proper opportunities to be more openly emotional about it all. For him to have chances to be vulnerable and be treated with care in return. (And if that means having him break down then by all means let him break down.)

I do want to say that I don’t expect such a process to solve everything with him or that I would expect him to stop being upset about all that’s happened or otherwise take away what makes his story his (etc.), just that ultimately the idea is all about getting him to a point of having a bit more of a balance of his feelings and viewpoint. Bittersweet, but hopeful.

Hypothetically, if I were to try and place the idea where I think it could work well game timeline wise, I would place it around Dirge of Cerberus and / or post Dirge. I think it would go well then for the subject matter being covered, could work well thematically, and for potential opportunities for him to actually have the time and space to think and process (etc.). (Admittedly I think that putting it sometime around DoC is the obvious answer and that it could work at other points in time as well if it was done thoughtfully.)

I think that’s about all I have on this right now.

[psychonauts-faceoff]

LEVELS SHOWDOWN ROUND 4: FINALE

[aquato-family-circus]

thinking abt a tag saying meat circus was like a great Final Level that pn2 lacked and its got me thinking now hc i love like, lucrecia's lament > fatherland follies > back to lucrecia's lament basically as a trio finale but i do think i agree that that all does not make One Striking Final Vision... like the final boss arena with the frozen in time grulovian flood is baller thats true but somethin abt it aint got a pow a pop a zing like "escape flood tent while evil dad says SON CATCH!!"

not to say maligula fight aint good. just thinking abt it since the level face off is fresh on my brain

[freyayuki]

Final Fantasy Record Keeper Vincent Valentine Updated Relics and Stats List

In the Final Fantasy Record Keeper (FFRK) mobile game, Final Fantasy VII is the realm where I have the most relics. That’s because FF7 is my fave realm in this game.

If there’s a Final Fantasy VII banner or if a Final Fantasy VII char is featured on a banner, I almost always pull on said banner.

This post is all about Vincent Valentine from Final Fantasy VII and Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII and all the Soul Breaks that I currently have for him as well as his current stats and such.

Final Fantasy Record Keeper End of Service Announcement

Unfortunately, Final Fantasy Record Keeper just recently announced that it was gonna end its service on September 29, 2022. I talk more about that in another post.

I really wish this didn’t have to happen. I don’t want FFRK to end, at least not anytime soon.

Anyway, I’m hoping to be able to finish as much of FFRK’s content as I can before everything ends on September 29, 2022. I talk more about that in another post.

I also want to take screenshots of a couple of stuff in the game before the end.

Vincent Valentine Relics List

Here’s a list of all the relics that I have for Vincent Valentine from Final Fantasy VII (#ad) and Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII:

Limit Break Overstrike (LBO), Galian Scratch

Chain Soul Break (CSB), Cerberus Soul

Synchro Arcane Soul Break 1 (SASB1), Bestial Claws

SASB2, Chaos Saber

Awakened Arcane Soul Break 1 (AASB1), Chthonian Blaze

AASB2, Galian Saber

Ultra Soul Break 1 (USB1), Lucrecia's Lament

USB2, Dirge of Cerberus

Glint+ Soul Break (G+), Munitions Reload

Glint Soul Break (G), Forsaken Power

Burst Soul Break 2 (BSB2), Flame Penalty

Default Soul Break, Head Shot

Legend Materia 1, Turk Among Turks

Legend Materia 2, Beast Within

Legend Materia Relic 1 (LMR1), Seeing Red

Missing 6 or 7 of Vincent’s Soul Breaks:

True Arcane Soul Break (TASB) or Arcane Dyad Soul Break (ADSB), Satan Slam

USB3, Marksman's Spite

BSB1, Galian Beast

Super Soul Break 1 (SSB1), Cerberus Shell

SSB2, Bestial Roar

Unique Soul Break, Chain Shot

LMR2, Beastly Aspect

Unfortunately, FFRK ended before I had the chance to take more screenshots of Vincent’s relics, stats, character profiles, and such.

Wasn’t able to take a screenshot of the Materia tab of his relics list, and now I can’t remember for sure if I have his LMR2 or not.

This one gives him fastcast 3 on battle start but I don’t think I’ve ever used this. Pretty sure I always have Vincent equipped with his LMR1 and his Legend Materia 2.

His LMR1 gives him a chance to dualcast fire-type abilities while Beast Within powers him up and restores his HP back to full when it drops to a low amount during battle.

I remember picking Vincent’s Glint+ Soul Break from the Final Fantasy Record Keeper Summer Sun Relic Draw Stamp Sheet Glint Soul Break or Legend Materia Relic select. I talk more about this in another post.

Vincent’s Glint+ is great because it instantly gives him 2 bars so I can have him cast his Chain or one of his BDL relics as soon as the battle starts or whenever I want him to.

Anyway, of the relics that I know for sure that I’m missing for Vincent, the only one that I can’t get from the The Record Lab by using Anima Lenses is his TASB.

Even his LMR2 is Lensable though I still can’t remember for sure if I already have this or not.

If the game was still ongoing, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have bothered to Lens this. Also wouldn’t bother Lensing the other relics that I’m missing for Vincent because they’re all outdated by now, and getting them would just be a waste of resources, especially if I’m not gonna use them anyway.

But with the news that FFRK was coming to an end, I wouldn’t have minded spending the Lenses needed to get these relics. After all, there was no more point in saving any of the resources and materials and such in this game.

Too bad Final Fantasy Record Keeper ended before I had the chance to get all of Vincent’s Lensable relics.

It’s also too bad that I never got his TASB. I’d been meaning to try pulling for it whenever it returned on a banner because it was the only relic that I’m missing for Vincent that I can’t Lens. But now I’ll never be able to get it since the game is over by now. Sigh.

Vincent Valentine Info

In Final Fantasy Record Keeper, Vincent Valentine is a hybrid DPS slash support who deals fire elemental damage.

As a hybrid char, Vincent can be made to deal either magical fire or physical fire damage depending on which stat of his is currently higher.

If his MAG stat is higher, then he’ll deal magical damage. If his ATK stat is higher, then he’ll deal physical damage.

Vincent has one of the best magical fire Chains in the game. He can equip the Machinist ability that has the chance to imperil the fire element. He has Soul Breaks that allow him to imperil fire.

Vincent deals pretty good damage while also supporting the party via his imperils and Chain.

Fire is my favorite and strongest element in Final Fantasy Record Keeper because that’s the element of Genesis Rhapsodos from Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII.

Currently, Genesis is my absolute, most fave Final Fantasy char. He’s the reason why I’m playing Final Fantasy Record Keeper.

So I always try to bring Genesis to every fight, even the ones with enemies that resist fire and/or aren’t naturally weak to fire.

I’m always looking to improve my physical fire team. Genesis is my main DPS, of course, but I’m always on the lookout for secondary physical fire DPS and other chars who could help make my fire team the best it can possibly be.

When I got 2 BDL relics for Vincent, he became part of my phsysical fire elemental team as my secondary DPS who could also help imperil fire.

Vincent was also on my magical fire team since he can be a magical DPS too. His CSB is really good so he’s also my Chain holder for my magical fire team.

I remember getting Vincent’s Sync 2 on the Final Fantasy VII Inherited Blade banner.

This one has a bonus effect depending on how many Final Fantasy VII chars you have in your party, so it’s not necessarily better than Vincent’s Sync 1.

I’d bring Vincent’s Sync 2 if I’m taking a full Final Fantasy VII party to a fight but I’d opt for his Sync 1 if I only have 1 or 2 FF7 chars in my team.

If I could, I would have readily brought both Syncs. But the thing is each char can only equip 1 Sync at a time, which is really too bad. Vincent will be even better if I could use both of his Syncs on the same fight.

Anyway, Vincent’s AASB2 was also featured on the Final Fantasy VII Inherited Blade banner. Thankfully, I was also able to pull for this Soul Break. I talk more about my pulls on this banner in this post.

Vincent’s AASB2 is definitely better than his AASB1. But at least I don’t have to choose between the 2 because there’s no limit to the number of Awakenings each char can equip.

Getting more BDL relics for Vincent just made him even better and has really helped to cement his place on my fire team.

Got to use Vincent in a lot of fights. I remember that he was part of my team when I went to take on the physical and fire-weak version of White Odin or Argent Odin. This is a quest level 600 fight. I talk more about this fight in this post.

Vincent was also part of my team when I took on the magical and fire-weak version of Argent Odin. I talk more about that in this post.

When I got more of Sephiroth’s (from Final Fantasy VII) fire-type Soul Breaks, I started using Vincent less in my physical fire team. That’s because Sephiroth became my secondary DPS.

Sephi doesn’t really offer anything other than damage but the damage he deals is really good.

The fire imperils from Vincent are helpful and important but the thing is that I do always have Balthier (Ffamran mied Bunansa) from Final Fantasy XII as part of my physical fire team.

Balthier’s Chain Soul Break is one of the best physical fire Chains in FFRK. I’m really glad I have this relic because it really helps to boost the damage output of my fire chars.

As a result of having Balthier’s fire Chain, he’s always a part of my fire team alongside Genesis.

Balthier can equip the Machinist ability that has the chance to imperil fire. He also has a Legend Materia that gives him the chance to imperil fire. He even has an Ultra Soul Break that lowers the enemy’s resistance to the fire element by 2 levels.

So it’s not like I really need Vincent to imperil fire although having him around does mean that I can quickly max out an enemy’s resistance to the fire element.

The point is that between Sephiroth and Vincent, Sephi deals more damage so I started using him more and more as my secondary DPS, especially once I started getting more BDL relics for him.

Vincent is still part of my magical fire team since he’s still one of my top DPS for magical fire and his fire CSB is still one of the best magical fire Chains in the game.

If I can make it work, my physical fire team would usually be Genesis, Sephiroth, Vincent, and Balthier with the fifth char being a healer and buffer.

This slot was usually filled by either Lenna Charlotte Tycoon from Final Fantasy V, Elarra from Final Fantasy Record Keeper, or Aeris or Aerith Gainsborough from Final Fantasy VII.

On really hard fights, this team will unfortunately not work though. I’d need to bring a support like Tyro from Final Fantasy Record Keeper instead of another damage dealer like Vincent.

An example was when I took on the physical-weak version of Snow Giant, the boss of the Labyrinth Nexus Season 2, Part 1 dungeon in the Labyrinth Dungeons. This quest is level 650. I talk more about this fight in this post.

Vincent is still part of my Final Fantasy VII realm team since said team has basically become a fire team too. This happened once I got more fire relics for Sephiroth and Barret Wallace from Final Fantasy VII.

I remember that I was able to clear the Final Fantasy VII Dragonking Dungeon quest level 630 fight with Genesis, Sephiroth, Vincent, Balthier, and Aerith.

Even managed to sub-30 this fight with the battle ending at 26.95 seconds. I talk more about that in this post.

Glad I got to use Vincent a lot in Final Fantasy Record Keeper. Wish I’d been able to get more of his relics and gotten to use him even more.

Vincent Valentine Hero Artifacts and Hero Ability

My Vincent is currently equipped with his Hero Artifacts:

Level 99 of 99 Death Penalty (VII)

Level 99 of 99 Vincent’s Bandana (VII-DoC)

Level 1 of 1 Vincent’s Boots (VII)

Both weapon and armor have been augmented up to Level 5 of 99.

Unfortunately, wasn’t able to double-check if I’d been able to get the best passives for all of Vincent’s Hero Artifacts. I think one or 2 of his Arts have the best passives.

Anyway, I also created Vincent’s Hero Ability. It’s a Machinist-type ability called Beast Flare. Vincent’s currently equipped with that and the Burnt Offering ability.

Vincent Valentine Stats

Vincent currently has the following stats:

ATK - 878

MAG - 895

ACC - 126

DEF - 448

RES - 538

EVA - 130

MND - 90

SPD - 182

Vincent Valentine Magia Crystals

Currently, Vincent has 489 Magia points. Unfortunately, wasn’t able to take a screenshot of his Magia Crystals list before the game ended.

But I’m positive that Vincent used to have 100 points in his Magic Magia Crystal and 100 in his Attack Magia Crystal. Then I reset his points so he didn’t have any in his Magic Magia Crystal anymore.

This was because Vincent has a higher magic stat when compared to his attack stat. Whenever I tried to gear Vincent to deal physical damage, he still ended up with a higher magical stat anyway.

This was back when Vincent was still a prominent part of my physical fire team and when my magical fire team wasn’t that good or fully built yet. So I wanted Vincent to deal more physical damage.

I don’t think I ever got to bring Vincent’s Magic Magia Crystal back to 100 points. Even without this though, Vincent still has a higher magic stat anyway. It’s kind of infuriating.

As for the rest of his Magia points, pretty sure 100 went to his Fire Magia Crystal. His HP Magia Crystal should have 100 points as well then the rest should be split between his DEF and RES Magia Crystals.

Vincent Valentine Crystal Water Points

Wasn’t able to take a screenshot but I’m pretty sure that my Vincent has max Crystal Waters for the following stats: ATK, MAG, HP, DEF, and RES.

Vincent Valentine Character Profile

Each char in Final Fantasy Record Keeper has a Character Profile. This has 2 tabs - Overview and Hero Record.

Unfortunately, wasn’t able to take screenshots of Vincent’s Overview and Hero Record.

But here’s some of what is listed under the Overview tab of Vincent’s Character Profile:

Vincent’s Role is listed as Offensive Magic, which isn’t entirely accurate since Vincent is a hybrid char so he could be a physical DPS too.

Under the Special Traits heading is the following text:

Proficient with a variety of weapons and armor, with a focus on guns and rods. Can use rare black magic abilities, buffing his Magic to deal heavy elemental magic damage.

The Hero Record tab of Vincent’s Character Profile has the following text:

A gunslinger who slept in a coffin in the Shinra Mansion for many years, Vincent is one of the few who knows Sephiroth's true origin. Vincent has been surgically altered, giving him eternal youth and the ability to change into a variety of beasts.

If Vincent had any costumes, it would have been listed in the Hero Record tab under the Wardrobe Records heading. Too bad Vincent doesn’t have any alt outfits in this game.

Ugh. I’m really annoyed that I wasn’t able to take more Vincent-related screenshots before Final Fantasy Record Keeper ended. Wish I’d been able to take more notes and info and such about all of this. Sigh.

It really sucks that the game is all over now. I really wish we could have gotten more time to play FFRK.

Conclusion

So what about you? What do you think about Vincent Valentine from Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy VII? Do you have a lot of Soul Breaks for him? What do you think about the fact that Final Fantasy Record Keeper is all over now? Feel free to share your thoughts and opinions by leaving a comment below or by reblogging or replying to this post.

Notes:

screenshots are from my Final Fantasy Record Keeper game account

[technovillain]

maligula's shift back into lucy as she finds marona...and the shift into nona...back into lucy........back into maligula..........................lucrecia's lament most painful level of all time

[silliest-basilisk]

not to mention that the deluge being only 20 years ago makes next to no sense. augustus in the memory vaults looks 12 at most, which would put him in his early 30s in the present day, which means he wouldve been a teenager when dion and frazie were born.... obv its not out of the question that he and dona were teen parents but im not sure if this was intended also its a little weird considering the ages of the psychic 7? they mostly look to be in their 70s or even 80s, which would make it so that they were in their 50s-60s when the deluge happened, but ford referred to himself as being 'young' back then in lucrecia's lament? i guess he couldve meant youngER, but still, its a little weird (though it makes sense given that lucy was already a widow by the time she joined the psy7, and compton was likely already divorced and had kids when he joined as well) not to mention that this makes the common hc that ford and otto started researching psitanium soon after college make no sense. i doubt the psy7 lived in the gulch for DECADES.

I'm confused by the Psychonauts timeline. And I don't mean "Oh doesn't it take place in the 1980s cause of the second game having magazines?" vs "doesn't it take place in the 1800s because Fred validly being the great great great grandson of Napoleon Bonaparte and we can look up Napoleon's lineage and see that said great great great grandchildren lived in that age?" vs "Doesn't it take place in a futuristic 2000s because vibes?"

No no no no no.

I'm talking about what events took place in what order?

Like... Ford and Otto meet and decide to go to some place in the woods to study this thing called Psitanium. Many people think they dropped out of college but they could have also been like... geology majors...

And apparently Otto knew a hydrokinetic woman named Lucy from Grulovia so...

Mark that actually first in the timeline, Otto knew Lucy and knew a war was happening in Grulovia. Sometime after that, Otto and Ford meet and start studying Psitanium. Lucy's husband, Gelsin, dies in the war so she leaves. Leaving her sister behind.

Lucy and Ford start bonding long before other psychics join them, but then we don't know the exact order that people came in.

Compton, Cassie, and Bob are somewhere in the mix with Helmut being last but... which of them came first!? Was it Cassie who struggled to socialize with the others and only bonded with Ford? OR was it Compton because his psychic abilities were having trouble being honed and Ford was like- why don't we try to help? OR was it Bob who had no one else around and was probably aimlessly wandering or drunk? We don't know. Make it up yourself.

Helmut and Bob have a wedding, which... includes... Truman. Wait how old is Truman!? I thought he was younger than Augustus but Augustus is clearly around Raz's age (maybe older) in the memory vaults but now looks older than Truman.

Do we need to put THAT on the timeline, too!? *sigh* just... plot things out...

After that wedding the next point in the timeline is Lucrecia's return to Grulovia because the war eventually breaches its borders, and fearing for her sister's life, Lucrecia heads back. This is now a lot easier to plot out. Lucrecia heads back, turns the tide of war (pun intended), and becomes the War Minister under the Malik Crown. Lucrecia eventually creates mild floods at protests, and gains the moniker "Maligula" from either those of the crown, or the protestors. During this time, her letters start to no longer show up in the mail and Maligula gains a big name for herself (as we see with Psychic Times Magazine). The Deluge happens. Marona and Lazarus are killed and then she is left to succumb to her primal fight instincts that try to protect her from feeling the guilt and aiming her rage at those she blames to be the real cause of her sister's death. Other protestors, or even the crown. The Maliks flee, and after many militaries cannot get to Grulovia, they send in the small group of Psychics that have also probably been published in similar magazines (most likely thanks to Otto). The fight with Maligula happens, Helmut "dies," Ford "kills" Maligula, and he takes Maligula and Helmut's brain to the Heptadome.

Things get messy here again. Because while it may seem that Maligula's, Augustus's, and Ford's rewrites happened back to back in Helmut's memories of the incident, there's implications that it wasn't the case. Ford recalls at the end of "Tomb of the Sharkophogus" that "I had my Lucy back." This implies that he first used it to isolate Maligula. Afterall, it he remarks he had his Lucy. Ford goes on to say "But I knew the world would never forgive her. So I had to hide her somewhere safe."

Perhaps this was him still having her in the astrolaithe, BUT it could also be that he and Lucy came up with the plan of hiding her further from herself. Remember: Lucy accepted the name of Maligula before the Deluge (Cruller's Correspondence). It was even the name they featured her with on the Psychic magazine before the Deluge. But we don't know. This is a hole in our understanding. It's an even bigger hole with Raz saying that Ford was "the greatest leader the Psychonauts had ever seen," back in PN1 (before Maligula was the reason that Ford's mind became fucked up). Meaning that not only should Ford have at least a FEW missions under his belt, it would mean the back-to-back memory wipe makes no sense. But if the back-to-back memory wipe makes no sense then there would be no reason for Otto to have not known the brain in the jar was Helmut Fullbear! ESPECIALLY when Ford is supposedly out of it during Helmut's funeral and when Ford is at the founding of the Motherlobe.

Another hole in our understanding is even where Ford got the idea of the circus. Was it from Lazarus Aquato and his famous national aquatic circus that Augustus tells Raz about? Was it from the fact that the Galochios were supposed to have been a rival circus in the past? We don't get anything with that!

So what are we left with? I suppose it would have had to have been something like this - Ford rescues Lucy, but between all of her friends she believes she killed Helmut, as well as her sister. Possibly unable to deal with the grief, She begs Ford to help her redeem herself by saving Augustus. But Augustus, traumatized by the loss of his mother to his aunt rejects her until they're both locking their memories away. And then Ford... well there's another grey period.

What makes the MOST sense is that he was HAILED as the best leader the Psychonauts had because he was 1. The First, and 2. Took down Maligula. And basically immediately after tried to seal the memories of Lucy away with the Astrolaithe and accidentally broke his own mind by the time they had Helmut's funeral.

THEN we get into the New Leadership of the Psychonauts. Mostly led by Otto, but we also have Truman as the only other leader. Who is clearly old enough to have been at Helmut and Bob's wedding given the figments you can find in Bob's Bottles.

I'm guessing that Ford and Otto had their time as leaders, but when Cassie left, Truman was the one in charge. But that's only guess work. Truman could have just been leading the Psychonauts as the organization we know it since the beginning.

But the most IRRITATING part of the Psychonauts timeline is the current batch of agents. No, not Raz and the Juniors, I'm talking about the Senior Agents. The superstars.

Where did Sasha Nein, Milla Vodello, Hollis Forsythe, and Morceau Oleander come from?

Like... we know their backstories and where they were BEFORE the Psychonauts. But we only see Hollis recruited. And she's able to call the Psychonauts and get Truman to come on a mission to fix her mess.

But like... if the Psychonauts are just a phone call away, they're clearly established for the populous rather than the way they're called in like... the E3 reveal trailer by military. So HOW did she become SECOND HEAD? Who was Truman's second hand before her? Did he have one before her? Was this during a time that like... Otto and Compton were in charge?

Were Morceau, Sasha, and Milla already there? That would make the most sense, considering how popular and available the Psychonauts are. But then again, why would someone who got into the Psychonauts so late become the Second Head??

And it's not even that Hollis was an immediate field agent, as she dropped being a nurse and got a graduate degree in mathematics. So she either took off away from the Psychonauts and got that degree then came in later, or under the Psychonauts got her degree.

We don't have the order of half of the founding members, and we don't have the order of the modern psychonauts being recruited.

All. We have. Are Headcanons. And even then those clash a lot.

Like, I can say: "Oh I think Truman became leader fairly quickly thanks to his age being around 20s or 30s at the latest and Otto and Compton were struggling with trauma" but at the same time it's equally valid to say: "Ford was the leader who lost himself overtime rather than shattering immediately"

And sometimes that's great. But sometimes that can cause people to yell at one another.

What am I trying to get at?

Nothing I'm just neurodivergent about numbers and timelines are something I'm VERY neurodivergent for.

[kingartsybanana]

thinking about this unused cross-stitch in Lucy's mind 🥺

[psychonauts-faceoff]

LEVELS SHOWDOWN ROUND 2

[jnixz]

Man, all these bacon dialogue makes me appreciate just how much audio was available with Ford and how it made him available as a companion in Raz’s journey in the first game. No wonder Raz mentions being a friend of his when inspecting Ford’s mural in the Motherlobe.

He probably did canonically call Ford a couple of times to ask for help. Take in this bit of dialogue from Hollis Hotstreak

He probably means it in general, but like the bacon thing is one of the more memorable to me, and readily available in the first game when you get it. There is even an achievement for it which is so silly but also like, kinda sweet Ford answers every time.

(Then again this man has a bacon tattoo. His Nuggets of Wisdom are bacon. He really loves bacon. Absolutely obsessed.

So he gives bacon as a surefire direct contact for Raz to get him, and Raz thanks him every time you back away from the help dialogue tree and -- aw man I’m being sappy again)

I just ugaghgh appreciate their dynamic. Makes the reveal so much more impactful and personal hnngngn. It gets so much complicated layers in the second game, and its so SO good.