#lltpq

[gabowook]

My takes on Greta and Albert, governors of Dream Town from TNBC book Long Live The Pumpkin Queen!

I felt a bit conflicted with the changes on the lore but I fell in love with Sally’s parents quite fast lol. Might as well draw them complete with a few changes, still working on my interpretation!

[tnbc-thoughtsandheadcanons]

....Ssssooooooo I binged Sally's Lament in one day. What can I say. It hooked me deep at some point and the hours just flew by.

All I will say for now is that I absolutely love the story and enjoyed the read. I do have some criticisms to make, but those and further Spoilers will be included in my overall Review, which I will write tomorrow and schedule for later in October.

I have some memes to make. And hopefully some fanart of my favorite scenes. Holy HELL was I spoiled with how much Jack X Sally was in here. I really only have one thing to say:

[anonymously-creating]

Do you guys think there’s a sex shop in Valentine’s Day Town?

Ruby Valentino handing Jack a strap-on: “Here. You might need this for Sally.”

Jack, completely dumbfounded: “Why on earth would I need this?”

Ruby: “Well, you’re a skeleton, right? You don’t have a…” *Gestures to the lower half of his body.*

Jack: “I literally eat, drink, sleep, walk, and can do just about everything a normal skeleton can’t do. Why are you doubting my abilities?”

[keep-going-to-the-sunrise]

“You are the Pumpkin Queen, Sally. You can do whatever you want.”

[theemmtropy]

Inspired by Shea Ernshaw's description of Dream Town. I loved Long Live The Pumpkin Queen, and I don't care what the haters have to say 🤷‍♀️

[scientistservant]

Sandman’s realm consists of sand. A sea of sand, crumbling buildings and structures made of sandstone. Everlasting night with stars sparkling above, sky reflecting the ground like a mirror.

The only physical being in his realm, he watches visions of people’s dreams perform around him like a play. Souls of people, wishes, desires, fears. Happy memories, sad memories, nightmares.

What happens when someone ventures into this realm searching for his own dream? Someone who enters awake and walking?

[tnbc-thoughtsandheadcanons]

Well, it's not a comic, but a book recently released in the Disney Twisted Tales series, which have the premises of 'what-ifs' starring the female leads of Disney movies as the protagonists of the books.

Also, hate to correct on this again, but in Long Live the Pumpkin Queen, Sally was the long-lost daughter of governors of Dream Town, not a princess from a Kingdom! There's a whole plot point in the book of Dream Town abolishing their monarchy and banishing their prior King. It definitely still makes Sally born into riches and privileged, but I just want to make sure that's clear.

I'll try not to Spoil much about Sally's Lament since it released only 4 days ago, but the book is more focused on a "twisted"/darker take of Christmas Town (hence 'Twisted Tales), so Sally's discovery of it is a bit more darker than how Jack's went. She does go on a journey of her own initially, but (biggest thing to a Spoiler I'll say here), she and Jack ultimately go on the adventure to Christmas Town together, and he's the only one she tells about it for a reason early on in the book.

I myself and others are a bit miffed on some of Sally's characterization in there though, a sentiment I think you'll share if/when you read the book. I have a post written about it that I plan to release soon. But this tale didn't really retcon anything for Nightmare to the level that LLTPQ did - the story is much different than how it played out in the movie.

TNBC showerthought #10: Sally is her own Doll

((OOC: So I saw because of @tnbc-thoughtsandheadcanons that there's a new comic coming out that's a 'what if' if Sally had been the one to find the holiday doors and not Jack. I'll admit the idea intrigues me...but I'm a little cautious.

Now's not the time to go into it but I get a little peeved with how Disney is utilizing fan-fic ideas and concepts like AUs and mecha crossovers in their spinoff material. But, besides that fear, I'm cautious for another reason. I'm noticing a lot more stuff trying to feature Sally more and more. While I like that, I'm also kind of annoyed with it.

Among the many problems I have with "Long Live the Pumpkin Queen", one of them is I feel like they're trying to make Sally more of a female alt to Jack, rather than her own unique character. LLTPQ had to retcon Sally into being a princess from another kingdom the way Jack is already a 'King'. Which, to ME is deeply insulting.

Part of what makes Sally impressive is that she is 'just' a ragdoll. She was created, not born or 'died', and she also happens to be smarter than her creator and even the king of her town. There doesn't need to be some explanation for her being the way she is and that's what's cool about her. It's very, Ozian, for lack of a better word. It's such a cute idea of an inanimate-object-brought-to-life becoming a ruler and being thought of as their own person. It's cute and even a little empowering in a way.

While I'm not scared that this new comic will retcon anything like LLTPQ did (really, it's supposed to, given that it's an AU), I'm still worried that this new comic will give Sally the exact same reaction Jack has to Christmas and have the plot of the movie try and go on but with Sally in Jack's place...and I really hope that's not what happens.

Sally is not Jack. That's what's adorable about her. That's what we the audience love about her and that's what Jack falls in love with her at the end for. Sally wouldn't do the things Jack does with Christmas because Sally is her own person and her situation and social status is different than Jack.

AUs of this kind really kind of put into perspective the kind of characters you're working/messing with. The whole reason the story of TNBC happens at all is because Jack is the kind of person he is while he finds Christmas; extroverted, peppy, self-absorbed, ostentatious and manic depressive. Jack is the king and everybody wants his approval and attention even if he thinks no one actually listens to him. The only reason Halloween ends up doing Christmas at all is because Jack is the king and is used to doing what he wants and getting his citizens in on his plans.

If Sally finds Christmas Town or any other holiday world and comes to her own self-discovery, she better not go back and try and tell the people of Halloween about it. Sally's whole deal in the first half of the movie is she doesn't want to live with Dr. Fink; she's trying to escape. She'd probably stay in the Holiday worlds because she has no one back home desperately looking for her besides Dr. Fink. She wants to be away. If anything she has a way better reason than Jack or anyone else in town to run away. And, if Dr. Fink did make a big deal and ask people to help him look and then THAT's how Halloween first finds Christmas-- that would be something. I'd really like to see an alt. Jally-romance take that direction; Jack starts a search party for Dr. Fink's missing secretary he's seen once or twice, he follows a party personally to the outskirts of Halloween land, finds the doors and Sally and SHE'S the one to introduce HIM to the other holiday worlds. That'd be so cool!

tl;dr: I hope the 'what if' comic has Sally functionally going on her own journey and being a different character and not her functionally going through the beats of the story Jack did but just Sally in place of Jack. Sally is not Jack.

))

[crimsonfacets]

This post acts as both an interest check and a tag dump for Sally the Ragdoll. Please leave a 🪡 in the replies (and for multis - muses you're interested in having her interact with), or like this post, if you have interest in interacting with her! Her profile can be found here.

『 sally / ic. 』 ❝ I sense there's someone in the wind. ❞

『 sally / visage. 』 ❝ one crafty ragdoll. ❞

『 sally / insp. 』 ❝ she's more than she seams. ❞

『 sally / aes. 』 ❝ fresh belladonna & shelves of tinctures. ❞

『 sally / interests. 』 ❝ plucked fresh from a poisonous garden. ❞

『 sally / hc. 』 ❝ welcome to sally's. ❞

『 sally / style. 』 ❝ patchwork pockets stuffed with herbs. ❞

『 sally / bonds. 』 ❝ this city is a graveyard. ❞

『 sally / &jack. 』 ❝ you're everything I've ever wanted; if you die I hope you haunt me. ❞

『 sally / verse; lltpq. 』 ❝ a little place called dreamtown. ❞ / a long live the pumpkin queen verse.

[dapperinsanity]

While I’m trying to keep up with avoiding certain companies and boycotting them, I wish there was a way I would be able to read the upcoming Sally’s Lament book, the sequel to LLTPQ, and the book of bill from gravity falls. All I can hope is that someone makes an audiobook for the first two on YT. And hopefully, find Mirror Moon on the internet somewhere for free. But if not, it’s fine. I’d rather avoid giving any money to a company that supports genocide cause that stuff isn’t important at the end of the day.

[seegsart]

My take on Queen Ruby Valentino from Long Live the Pumpkin Queen 💖

[waifines]

Oh this is so beautiful.

Dream Town Sally from Long Live the Pumpkin Queen! 🎃👑🌙✨

[tnbc-thoughtsandheadcanons]

Non-canon anon here again!

I totally agree with you that if LLTPQ were canon, then every other spin-off game and book would be canon. I think the best thing about having all of these different media about TNBC is that you can pick and choose which ones you like and want to be canon.

And yeah, Tim's word means nothing lol! I remember when he had said there's no such thing as magic in Halloween Town, which is ridiculous. Honestly, if it isn't said by Henry Selick or Danny Elfman, it isn't canon in my eyes.

Also, Fink is my favourite character for many reasons, and someone on Youtube tried to convince me to stop sympathising with him because of what he did in LLTPQ. LLTPQ is about as canon as Kingdom Hearts.

Exactly! The TNBC universe feels like a 'pick-your-own' canon thing regarding the prequels and sequels. I think that's what makes it a lot of fun! And people can consider *everything* canon if they want to, and not have to justify anything. I just think some people should cool it a bit if someone doesn't know about a comic/book whatever, or if they disagree with it. This is all for fun!

AHAHA I *DO* REMEMBER THAT! If magic doesn't exist then what the hell was Santa Claus pinching his nose and yeeting himself out of Oogie's lair with? That's NOT Christmas magic? I cannot grasp people holding Tim Burton as the 'word of God' when it comes to TNBC because...so much of it was written by Henry, Danny, and Caroline...and there are even a couple things said by THEM that I cannot get 100% behind. So honestly. Do what you want at this point, lol.

Also, that person is ridiculous. I know Finkelstein is someone people either loathe or love, and Long Live the Pumpkin Queen did a LOOOT of irreparable damage to his character, all because the author didn't "like Sally belonging to him". Yeah, he's definitely done some bad things and caused an awful situation for her, but that doesn't mean he's past redemption or not worth being looked into beyond "oh he kidnapped her so he's evil!" I think he deserved sooo much more than what he was chalked up to in the story.

And for people to treat that as canon? Sure, whatever, just don't take that out on his fans or use it against them. Because Shea Ernshaw isn't Tim Burton or any of the people who *actually* wrote his character. I imagine fans of his know the kind of flawed character he is -- they certainly don't need people telling them to stop liking or sympathizing with him.

[dragon-cookies]

Can’t believe Sally killed the queen herself

[chaifootsteps]

“Halloween Town smells like black licorice and pumpkin spice!”

No, Shea. Halloween Town smells like leaves and rain. Halloween Town smells like a walk in late fall. Go to hell.

[scientistservant]

This is why I call TNBC Henry Selick’s movie, and Danny Elfman’s. They, along with the other fantastic and talented crew, MADE Nightmare.

Tim was basically the shitty biological dad who would come over and visit once or twice a year.

What Shea Ernshaw said about the writing process of Long Live The Pumpkin Queen in her virtual Q&A confirms something I’ve been suspecting for a long time now: Tim Burton doesn’t really care for The Nightmare Before Christmas anymore and hasn’t in a while. Or rather, he cares about it only as far as the paycheck he gets from royalties for the use of his characters. Disney and their collaborators can do whatever they want as long as he cashes in on it.

I don’t say this lightly, I was the biggest Burton fan for many years and I hate using that word! But. Tim Burton sold out. And he’s made a cozy place for himself very deep in Disney’s pockets.

And I suppose the fans and characters will suffer the consequences of that. More content, but at what cost?

[marchingroo24]

Tim Burton and the TNBC cast after reading : Long Live The Pumkin Queen circa. 2022