#lis2 discussion

[celibibratty]

Ehhhh?????, lw daniel has blood on his clothes!?, during mine whole life seeing this ending never saw that, now the question is, who's blood?, is his or Else?🤔

[cutielatias]

Idk what bb ending have but sometimes sean and daniel look kinda ugly on it :b i was seeing some screenshots of sean (cuz i was trying to draw him from bb)and sean looks kinda cursed/ugly in some but its funny cuz i do find this sean very handsome (and i find daniel prettie too)but in some scenes they are…ugly, like how something can be pretty and ugly at same time?(its weird,cuz the same time that this sean looks old he also looks young but i personally think that this make his apperance looks weird(i personally prefer to focus more on the older look, makes him more handsome,i don't care if he's twenty he looks like an adult so he gonna be an adult))

they look very cursed especially when show they whole body, looks unnatural

[sorrywh]

Discussions about Max and Chloe's breakup, along with sentiments like "this is disrespectful to fans" and "my Pricefield can't be like this," are bound to persist. It's clear that many fans are frustrated, and while I understand and share the love for Chloe, the overwhelming focus on her is excessive. I am concerned that it will overshadow the actual discussions about Double Exposure itself (the game's characters, their relationships, possible discussions about the development of events). From the outside (to those who could potentially become a part of the fandom), it could seem that in Life Is Strange, only sapphic relationships matter. As sad as it may be, this is further confirmed by the absence of any accompanying materials (books, comics) for LIS2, while True Colors has two (mutually exclusive!!!) sequels that focus solely on the female love interest—one in the form of a book, the other in the form of a comic.

Besides that, Life Is Strange as a franchise has never been limited to a single timeline. The comic Forget-Me-Not took as its basis the timeline with Rachel alive and living together with Chloe. The book Steph's Story directly stated that it's based on the events of bae over bay ending. There is even a whole six-volume comic series concluding its story with Max and Chloe's happily ever after and the restoration of Arcadia Bay, while in Life Is Strange 2, the town destroyed by the tornado remains a mere ghost town.

I don't see that supporters of the sapphic love line have a lack of content—there's space for Pricefield, Amberprice and Chenrich, and I don't see a problem with Deck Nine taking a completely different direction in the development of the characters' relationships.

We just have to wait for this discourse to quiet down, and for discussions about the game itself to become much more prominent. I want to see Life Is Strange as it was 9 years ago - full of discussions, theories, whodunnit guesses, symbolism explanations, and longreads connecting the dots. I've been a fan since the release of the first episode of the first season, and I'm grateful that the franchise is still alive and that new content is still being released.

[thealexchen]

hi! i recently got back into lis2 again and that made me really curious - do you still agree with a majority of the critiques you made on lis2 in 2020? i know it's been 4 years since that post was made, but i actually do remember when you dropped this critique on a separate account and i'd thought it was an interesting one to keep in mind back then :)

i appreciated a lot of what you have to say, even if i respectfully disagree with almost all of it 😭 - i didn't want to drop a whole "why" i disagree discussion on here because it seems kind of rude to drop such a huge thing about it haha, but i would like to say that this critique actually did stick with me for a bit and i appreciate that you made it when you did! your account was a big lis2 acc that i remember back in the day, and i always loved seeing your posts!

Hi there and thanks for your ask! I think I may know who you are, but you did get me thinking about that critique again (has it been four years already?? Jesus). After rereading it again, I have to say my overall opinions haven’t changed… I’m just not as invested in them as I used to be.

Since DE came out, I’ve seen a drastic shift from favoring D9 to DN, but I really think the reception comes down to their creative choices (or lack thereof). When I gave my initial thoughts on DE in May, I said that D9’s games rely heavily on fanservice to be marketable, while LiS2 was divisive from the jump because it was so obviously rooted in DN’s prioritization of making a game out of passion and not what would sell well (a continuation of Max and Chloe’s story). People have mostly been complaining that DE feels written without much thought or care for the original game, with lazy offscreen narrative decisions. Unfortunately, I believe this output is really due to D9 being puppeteered by Square to “corporatize” this series to death, which I find really depressing.

When LiS1 first debuted in 2015, the gaming industry was still recovering from Gamergate (which proved how misogynistic it still was) and LGBT+ issues were finally achieving mainstream attention, both positive and negative. The media storm surrounding LiS1 all focused on how different it was. It was truly radical at the time to turn what would be a typical Sundance indie film plot into an interactive AA game and make it mainstream. I think both the positive attention from gamers starved for a story like this and the negative attention calling it “Life is Tumblr” contributed to its massive popularity and attention that hasn’t been matched since.

I have always, always believed (like since 2018) in LiS being an anthology series and letting Max and Chloe’s story end. “Farewell” was supposed to be that, and I was really excited to see what DN was making next and hopeful I could fall in love with LiS2 like I did the first game. Even if I found LiS2’s narrative choices really frustrating, I still respect DN for sticking to their vision. Honestly, Michel Koch deserves his flowers so much for staying active on Twitter through years of fan hate and complaining and posting consistently respectful replies, even as his own characters have likely become unrecognizable to him.

But while DN stuck to their vision about LiS2, I think the main contextual issue with the game (and where my critiques came from) is there was too much pressure to follow up an accidental hit. DN wanted to follow up LiS1 with an even bigger, more serious, more ambitious, maybe more “artistic” and “daring” game that was boldly political… but I just don’t think they achieved that. The game still looks beautiful, with a strong soundtrack, art direction, moments of calm, and great environmental storytelling like the first game. But while LiS1 lured you into a false sense of security with its cozy vibes and high school setting, only to blindside gamers with heartbreaking and shocking plot twists late in the game, LiS2 is just a misery fest from start to end in an attempt to be as serious and memorable as the first game. There isn’t enough joy and nostalgia (DN is SO good at nostalgia) to contrast the sorrow, and the game wasn’t as memorable or fun to play for me.

My main critique in 2020 was the game relies too much on a violent trauma narrative without proper research and content warnings. Looking back on it now, I think DN internalized the praise too strongly that LiS1 was daring and different. They tried to be even more topical and bold without regard to how actual players of color might react to the racial violence onscreen. In addition, I critiqued LiS2 for not showcasing the positive aspects of Sean and Daniel’s Mexican heritage to contrast all the racism, and I thought True Colors did a better job at including meaningful and positive cultural details for Alex and Gabe’s family. They likely didn’t think to research more carefully how to depict POC (and how the standards for sensitive representation might be different in the U.S. compared to France). American politics are also wayyyy more complex than what’s on the news, and have a massive historical, social, and economic background, and nowadays, I’ll cut DN some slack and say I think that’s too much to tackle for any game. Yes, DN could’ve done better, but I wouldn’t critique them as harshly today, and I know they had good intentions.

If the pressure to follow up LiS1 wasn’t there, maybe LiS2 could’ve been different. Maybe DN wouldn’t have bit off more they could chew, or maybe this game could’ve been made independently of the LiS series and judged on its own merit. A game like Tell Me Why shows how DN is at their best when they tell smaller, nostalgic stories and are able to do the right research and collaborate with the right consultants and actors. I hope Lost Records can be the same, since DN is pitching it from the jump as an anthology and likely their do-over of LiS as their own independent studio.

Thank you again for asking! It was nice to revisit my critique. If you’d still like to talk about it, I am down for a friendly debate!

[caulfield-ley]

Replaying lis2 and karen and sean's discussion in episode 4 just makes me cry

They'll never make me hate you Karen

[somedeadbeatloz3r69]

how i feel abt u based on your favorite lis2 ending

blood brothers = ur so real 4 that ily (platonically) parting ways = I will have a long discussion with you about why it's good and how I understand why its your favorite lone wolf = WHAT. redemption = I will have a long debate with you about why its your favorite and if you think its fair or not and why. BONUS : whats ur favorite ending?? (poll)

[this-world-of-beautiful-monsters]

it's funny how lis1 and lis2 have the exact opposite problems in terms of how they're treated as political games--like, lis1 is extremely political in how it discusses misogyny and how it interacts with queerphobia, classism, and ableism, but it's almost never discussed as a political work. while lis2 is extremely political in how it deals with racism, and that aspect is hyperfocused on and used as a bludgeon against it. like lis2 got screwed over in a lot of ways but at least more people acknowledge what it was about (even if that game's discussion of how racism intersects with queerphobia, classism, and ableism almost never comes up). like it's interesting to see what people just ignore and what they get pissed at you for even discussing.

[ki-fi]

why is that? i dont mean to be rude just genuinely curious and i want to have a pleasant discussion if possible, maybe youll convince me to see things in a different way.

to expand on my tags, what im saying is that in my opinion og lis tied the story pretty well and didnt really need a sequel especially since the og creators have made several remarks about them leaving the story as it was intended and deck9 now taking maxs face for a final lifeline cashgrab (as deck9 is in a tight finacial spot, at least it was when i last checked when announcement about double exposure came out) is just pretty distasteful and plainly speaking rude.

on the other hand, dontnod was clear on them not furthering lis1 as they already left max and chloe fates into fans hands with the either ending you got. lis1 was a moody and aesthetical masterpiece and seeing DE gameplay just feels like they spit you in the face, with the way it just seems very much mechanical, ill even dare to say clinical (yeah, the graphics are the first giveaway, lis1 was stylized delight that your eyes feasted upon), theres just nothing about it that made the first game so great, no heart, no soul, DE is not only a slight to creators but fans as well and i mean sure you can enjoy it but we should face the fact thats its not life is strange game any more, but just a big satire of what it was, with characters (thats just max but their characterization of chloe too feels off) that look like the og ones but are not them. i just feel like some things should be sacred and not touched upon, as they already resolved perfectly and i get the craving of more, but its just not the way story was intented to be.

if you meant lis2 with wolf brothers as a sequel, next part of lis series, then i wholeheartly agree, it was an amazing journey and then im happy to be called wrong. and in case we just misunderstood each other dontnod created lis1 and lis2, deck9 - lis:tc, lis:bts and lis:de!

[xlostsoulsfound]

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[celibibratty]

Happy Birthday Sean🎉❤️

[cutielatias]

sometimes I remember this hate that daniel received (because of ep 3) and I think it's so...stupid! I don't know why people get so angry at daniel, compared to other kid characters daniel is kinda ok, and even if he's not, he doesn't do anything much different from these other characters, but for some reason daniel suffer/suffered a lot of hate and these characters don't, like, daniel is even very understanding, he tells sean to not blame himself for things, sometimes he tries to get along with sean, and he even apologize to him,even though i don't think it should be daniel the one apologizing(agressively looking at sean😒💢)it shows that he reflects/thinks about his behavior, but here the thing, daniel is mad/sad(on ep3) and that makes him take impulsive decisions (and also because sean never listens to him, that makes him irritated) daniel is much more fine comparing to others kid sidekick characters that has in other media/games, but I've never seen these characters receive all that hate that him(daniel) received (of course there must have people to complain/complained but even so, it's not as the same level as daniel's) even though the characters are more naughty than him, I have a take for that, I think can be because the "lis" franchise has a lot things to do with "ships" and ep 3 kinda it is the ep where we have the chance to do the romances, but daniel kinda gets in the way of the romances(especially Cassidy's one, since it was the route that most of people used to do at the time) because he being upset / "making a fuss", makes the player not able to do the routes without feeling that Daniel is going to do some "shit" / confusation since he's upset, then people get pissed at daniel because he keeps getting in the way of sean's/player's flirtation😒 or simply getting in the way of the game in general since daniel not liking cassidy/ he turning "rebel" makes the player not able to explore much of the ep3 interactions without feeling that it's going to make a bad consequence on their playthrough, kinda makes a little of sense if you think, because most of these games that have kid sidekick characters, the protagonists don't have any romantic partners or the games don't have such a fame because of ships😞

[touchoffleece]

No doubt we'll have some asses expose themselves against Safi, all the while also having performative slogans about current events in their bios or main headers. I do see Max and Chloe as iconic, but the idea of Max moving on with her life past the events of LiS 1 with a woman of color and coming from a different cultural background (even if it is toned down by being a x-generation of immigrant parents) interest me so much. And despite what people want to believe, no racism and race adjacent hate is not as obvious as LiS2 has people believe. So keep an open mind to the idea of Pricefield fans being in the wrong in the discussions of the new game. Chloe was an amazing character and is an icon for a generation of gamers but let's not make her the end all be all; which actually presents a modern dilmema to the og discourse and fan war LiS1 proposed us with its final choices: Chloe being there physically, or keeping the memory of Chloe and moving on with other people in life besides Chloe.

New Life is Strange game got announced, and Max seems to have a new friend named Safi whose Middle Eastern. Get ready to defend her from rabid Chloe Stans/OG LIS fans with the power of friendship and this gun we found...

~Mod René

[thealexchen]

Revisiting LIS2 and while I still love it I feel like some of it haven’t aged well or I’m more critical of - for example Cassidy is a strong one.

I still think she’s cool and has interesting scenes but I’m more idk critical of her? Like the way the narrative really pushes her as a romance (especially when the queer romance yet again in the franchise is available when you commit darker/criminal actions and has like a chaste kiss at most - I’m not expecting a sex scene or anything but there was way less content and it was kinda the ‘darker’ path as you have to do the heist with him for it while Cassidy is treated as the ‘moral’ choice) and that her flaws compared to Finn weren’t really explored at all (I don’t love him but at least the narrative didn’t whitewash his issues) - also the potential age gap between Sean (a minor) and her (who I’m assuming is in her early/mid 20s roughly considering everything ) and how she gets weirdly angry/annoyed if he won’t have sex with her despite him explicitly being a virgin who only just shared a kiss with her that’s never really addressed and felt kinda randomly harsh. Also her hair (Finn’s too) 💀 I don’t hate her but I’m much more unsure of her now then when I first played it - especially since I’m older now. Was curious what you thought since I’ve seen more mixed opinions like these lately on Cassidy as times passed with people discussing double standards and such - would love to hear your thoughts!

I agree with a lot of her points! I don't like that DN never specified Finn and Cassidy's ages, especially, and is why I never shipped Sean with either of them. The age of consent in France is 15, so it may not have occurred to DN that Sean being 16 was a risky move, narratively. Finn was already hooking up with Hannah, who is confirmed to be 28, so that's yikes all around for whatever it implies with Sean. There were people, including myself, who were criticizing Finn and Cassidy's dreads and the unbalanced romance back in 2019, though I think Jacob, Finn, and Cassidy's designs were inspired by Mike Brodie's street photography of real freight hoppers in the '90s, so the circumstances of the original inspiration can't really be helped. I feel like fans only found Cassidy interesting because she was a purple haired cool girl with a Southern accent, tbh.

Thank you for sharing and asking!

[thingsarentgood]

I know we've addressed Sean's eye depending on the ending, but has anybody talked about the symbolism of how different Daniel can look? Like obviously in Lone Wolf he looks more outwardly like he's lived a hard life while in Redemption he looks more stereotypically "put together". But I want to get into the details of why he seems so thin in some endings? Or why he seems to keep short hair in Mexico but longer hair in America? Or why he has facial hair in some but seems very clean shaven in others?

[chloepricestan]

Oh so here’s my predictions right now based on the trailer

1. daniel’s going to hurt someone in this episode (or the next one)

2. you’re going to have to choose in episode 5 between hurting daniel or letting him kill someone / wreak mass havoc

why? I’ll explain under the cut.

what do y’all think?

OK SO in my playthrough I decided not to intervene and daniel fucking MURDERED THAT COUGAR right in front of my eyes. Okay

Then later on he swipes that police car to the side like it’s nothing. OKAY

Now in the trailer for episode 3 we have the line from somebody about “Your brother needs a lesson... you ALL need a lesson” >:C implying someone will try to physically hurt daniel

AND 

we see daniel lift a bigass fucking log over you just to prank you.

So let’s recap, we’ve seen Daniel...

Kill in anger (while conscious of what he was doing, not like when the cop died in the explosion)

Manipulate massive objects (huge tree, cop car)

Disobey Sean on many instances, more angrily now in the trailer for ep 3

Including pushing Sean physically to the ground with his power

Do something with his power that could kill Sean easily (as a joke, but still...)

which leads me to believe that Daniel not only CAN but WILL hurt other people with his power, particularly if he’s upset

and the narrative of lis1 leads me to believe that your final, most painful choice is gonna be letting him intentionally hurt people or stopping him with force

thoughts?

[head-full-of-things]

Excellent analysis. I haven't though before about how the big choice of Mexico vs US represents Sean's struggle of racial identity. Obviously I knew that it is a choice between Mexico and the US, but I guess I didn't pay focus to Sean's internal racial struggle in that sense. So this opened my eyes. Or about Daniel's powers as a metaphor for him being 'other' in society.

I wonder what do you think about how Mexico in game is also connected to the idea of running away?

Also about the conversation between Sean and the Mexican couple? It's my favorite part of the episode because of its two-layered-ness. And I'm really interested in your opinion of it in general, and in the post-colonial lens specifically.

Life is Strange 2: A postcolonial reading

[Disclaimer: I haven’t written a lot of meta, so this is more A-level essay style than traditional meta style. I’m also not an expert on race or these theories, so if I make a mistake or anything, let me know.]

[Also spoilers for Episode 5: Wolves]

What is Postcolonialism?

To define a Postcolonialism lens, it’s first important to understand what a colony is. Mostly focused on European history, a colony is a less powerful region that is ‘owned’ by a superpower - like British dominance in India, for example. The colony is seen as lesser and loses part of its culture to the more powerful nation. A post-colonial lens looks at how this has an impact on how those people are presented - are they lesser or is there story and identity expressed? My textbook* describes this lens as looking at ‘issues of power, dominance and control and also in freedom and empowerment’.

Identity plays such a key role in LIS2 - the game has rightfully been praised for its latino representation - so i thought it would be interesting to examine the game under this lens, in terms of a more specific postcolonial theorist: Paul Gilroy.

Keep reading