#lis2 discussion

[celibibratty]

Happy Birthday Sean🎉❤️

[cutielatias]

Idk what bb ending have but sometimes sean and daniel look kinda ugly on it :b i was seeing some screenshots of sean (cuz i was trying to draw him from bb)and sean looks kinda cursed/ugly in some but its funny cuz i do find this sean very handsome (and i find daniel prettie too)but in some scenes they are…ugly, like how something can be pretty and ugly at same time?(its weird,cuz the same time that this sean looks old he also looks young but i personally think that this make his apperance looks weird(i personally prefer to focus more on the older look, makes him more handsome,i don't care if he's twenty he looks like an adult so he gonna be an adult))

they look very cursed especially when show they whole body, looks unnatural

[sorrywh]

Discussions about Max and Chloe's breakup, along with sentiments like "this is disrespectful to fans" and "my Pricefield can't be like this," are bound to persist. It's clear that many fans are frustrated, and while I understand and share the love for Chloe, the overwhelming focus on her is excessive. I am concerned that it will overshadow the actual discussions about Double Exposure itself (the game's characters, their relationships, possible discussions about the development of events). From the outside (to those who could potentially become a part of the fandom), it could seem that in Life Is Strange, only sapphic relationships matter. As sad as it may be, this is further confirmed by the absence of any accompanying materials (books, comics) for LIS2, while True Colors has two (mutually exclusive!!!) sequels that focus solely on the female love interest—one in the form of a book, the other in the form of a comic.

Besides that, Life Is Strange as a franchise has never been limited to a single timeline. The comic Forget-Me-Not took as its basis the timeline with Rachel alive and living together with Chloe. The book Steph's Story directly stated that it's based on the events of bae over bay ending. There is even a whole six-volume comic series concluding its story with Max and Chloe's happily ever after and the restoration of Arcadia Bay, while in Life Is Strange 2, the town destroyed by the tornado remains a mere ghost town.

I don't see that supporters of the sapphic love line have a lack of content—there's space for Pricefield, Amberprice and Chenrich, and I don't see a problem with Deck Nine taking a completely different direction in the development of the characters' relationships.

We just have to wait for this discourse to quiet down, and for discussions about the game itself to become much more prominent. I want to see Life Is Strange as it was 9 years ago - full of discussions, theories, whodunnit guesses, symbolism explanations, and longreads connecting the dots. I've been a fan since the release of the first episode of the first season, and I'm grateful that the franchise is still alive and that new content is still being released.

[thealexchen]

hi! i recently got back into lis2 again and that made me really curious - do you still agree with a majority of the critiques you made on lis2 in 2020? i know it's been 4 years since that post was made, but i actually do remember when you dropped this critique on a separate account and i'd thought it was an interesting one to keep in mind back then :)

i appreciated a lot of what you have to say, even if i respectfully disagree with almost all of it 😭 - i didn't want to drop a whole "why" i disagree discussion on here because it seems kind of rude to drop such a huge thing about it haha, but i would like to say that this critique actually did stick with me for a bit and i appreciate that you made it when you did! your account was a big lis2 acc that i remember back in the day, and i always loved seeing your posts!

Hi there and thanks for your ask! I think I may know who you are, but you did get me thinking about that critique again (has it been four years already?? Jesus). After rereading it again, I have to say my overall opinions haven’t changed… I’m just not as invested in them as I used to be.

Since DE came out, I’ve seen a drastic shift from favoring D9 to DN, but I really think the reception comes down to their creative choices (or lack thereof). When I gave my initial thoughts on DE in May, I said that D9’s games rely heavily on fanservice to be marketable, while LiS2 was divisive from the jump because it was so obviously rooted in DN’s prioritization of making a game out of passion and not what would sell well (a continuation of Max and Chloe’s story). People have mostly been complaining that DE feels written without much thought or care for the original game, with lazy offscreen narrative decisions. Unfortunately, I believe this output is really due to D9 being puppeteered by Square to “corporatize” this series to death, which I find really depressing.

When LiS1 first debuted in 2015, the gaming industry was still recovering from Gamergate (which proved how misogynistic it still was) and LGBT+ issues were finally achieving mainstream attention, both positive and negative. The media storm surrounding LiS1 all focused on how different it was. It was truly radical at the time to turn what would be a typical Sundance indie film plot into an interactive AA game and make it mainstream. I think both the positive attention from gamers starved for a story like this and the negative attention calling it “Life is Tumblr” contributed to its massive popularity and attention that hasn’t been matched since.

I have always, always believed (like since 2018) in LiS being an anthology series and letting Max and Chloe’s story end. “Farewell” was supposed to be that, and I was really excited to see what DN was making next and hopeful I could fall in love with LiS2 like I did the first game. Even if I found LiS2’s narrative choices really frustrating, I still respect DN for sticking to their vision. Honestly, Michel Koch deserves his flowers so much for staying active on Twitter through years of fan hate and complaining and posting consistently respectful replies, even as his own characters have likely become unrecognizable to him.

But while DN stuck to their vision about LiS2, I think the main contextual issue with the game (and where my critiques came from) is there was too much pressure to follow up an accidental hit. DN wanted to follow up LiS1 with an even bigger, more serious, more ambitious, maybe more “artistic” and “daring” game that was boldly political… but I just don’t think they achieved that. The game still looks beautiful, with a strong soundtrack, art direction, moments of calm, and great environmental storytelling like the first game. But while LiS1 lured you into a false sense of security with its cozy vibes and high school setting, only to blindside gamers with heartbreaking and shocking plot twists late in the game, LiS2 is just a misery fest from start to end in an attempt to be as serious and memorable as the first game. There isn’t enough joy and nostalgia (DN is SO good at nostalgia) to contrast the sorrow, and the game wasn’t as memorable or fun to play for me.

My main critique in 2020 was the game relies too much on a violent trauma narrative without proper research and content warnings. Looking back on it now, I think DN internalized the praise too strongly that LiS1 was daring and different. They tried to be even more topical and bold without regard to how actual players of color might react to the racial violence onscreen. In addition, I critiqued LiS2 for not showcasing the positive aspects of Sean and Daniel’s Mexican heritage to contrast all the racism, and I thought True Colors did a better job at including meaningful and positive cultural details for Alex and Gabe’s family. They likely didn’t think to research more carefully how to depict POC (and how the standards for sensitive representation might be different in the U.S. compared to France). American politics are also wayyyy more complex than what’s on the news, and have a massive historical, social, and economic background, and nowadays, I’ll cut DN some slack and say I think that’s too much to tackle for any game. Yes, DN could’ve done better, but I wouldn’t critique them as harshly today, and I know they had good intentions.

If the pressure to follow up LiS1 wasn’t there, maybe LiS2 could’ve been different. Maybe DN wouldn’t have bit off more they could chew, or maybe this game could’ve been made independently of the LiS series and judged on its own merit. A game like Tell Me Why shows how DN is at their best when they tell smaller, nostalgic stories and are able to do the right research and collaborate with the right consultants and actors. I hope Lost Records can be the same, since DN is pitching it from the jump as an anthology and likely their do-over of LiS as their own independent studio.

Thank you again for asking! It was nice to revisit my critique. If you’d still like to talk about it, I am down for a friendly debate!

[caulfield-ley]

Replaying lis2 and karen and sean's discussion in episode 4 just makes me cry

They'll never make me hate you Karen

[somedeadbeatloz3r69]

how i feel abt u based on your favorite lis2 ending

blood brothers = ur so real 4 that ily (platonically) parting ways = I will have a long discussion with you about why it's good and how I understand why its your favorite lone wolf = WHAT. redemption = I will have a long debate with you about why its your favorite and if you think its fair or not and why. BONUS : whats ur favorite ending?? (poll)

[this-world-of-beautiful-monsters]

it's funny how lis1 and lis2 have the exact opposite problems in terms of how they're treated as political games--like, lis1 is extremely political in how it discusses misogyny and how it interacts with queerphobia, classism, and ableism, but it's almost never discussed as a political work. while lis2 is extremely political in how it deals with racism, and that aspect is hyperfocused on and used as a bludgeon against it. like lis2 got screwed over in a lot of ways but at least more people acknowledge what it was about (even if that game's discussion of how racism intersects with queerphobia, classism, and ableism almost never comes up). like it's interesting to see what people just ignore and what they get pissed at you for even discussing.

[lakemichigans]

do you like lis2? I've tried to play it so many times and I really love the concept, but no matter what I just can't seem to get into it. I love love love lis, and true colors is one of my favorite games of all time. I even got through all of before the storm!! but for some reason I can't connect to the second game so much and it frustrates me. I was wondering what your thoughts are on all of the games (which I know is a big ask, so you don't have to go too in depth if you don't want) and where you would place lis2 among all of them??

oooh i’ll take any opportunity to talk about lis, but before i say anything, it’s okay if lis2 just isn’t your thing! life is too short to force yourself to finish a game you’re not into :’) anyway here’s my order from favorite to least favorite:

1 - LIFE IS STRANGE

i don’t think any game in this franchise will be able to capture the lightning in a bottle that lis1 was. it came out at a time when there were few story-based games and even fewer games that weren’t targeted specifically to men. the episodic format meant that a large fandom could gather to discuss theories and we had plenty of time to make art, fics, cosplay, etc. which all served to increase hype for the next episode. and i’m not going to talk too much about the story or the characters here because i think we all know how much i love them fjksjds it’s just sooo good. i’ll replay it over and over til the end of time.

2 - LIFE IS STRANGE 2

the reason i love lis2 is because of the strong bond between sean and daniel. i’m a protective older sister and daniel reminds me sooo much of my little brother, so there were some moments that hit me so hard i had to take a breather before i could continue playing. the relationship between them felt SO accurate and real, and the way you can feel their bond shifting over time depending on your choices is so cool. there are 4 unique endings with some of them having different possible variations, so your choices throughout the game matter a lot. it’s definitely a more chill, slower game than the first one, but i feel that the character development makes up for it. sean is my favorite main character of all the lis games; he has such a strong characterization on his own, but is also relatable enough that you can put yourself in his shoes (at least, i could). i love it a lot.

3 - THE AWESOME ADVENTURES OF CAPTAIN SPIRIT

yes, i’m counting this as a game. it rocks. i love chris & his voice actor, the game is delightfully adorable with just the right amount of emotion running throughout it, and it’s one of the best portrayals of what it’s like to be a young kid growing up with a parent who is struggling with addiction, depression, and grief. it’s the perfect lead-in to lis2. i’m only putting it this low because it’s short!

4 - TRUE COLORS

this game was.... fine. i really don’t have strong feelings about it. the visuals were stunning, the dialogue was good (it lost a lot of it’s cringey charm though), the characters were pretty strong, and the story had a good concept. unfortunately, it just fell flat for me. the twists were predictable and, most importantly for me, it didn’t make me cry!! :( i’m not itching to replay it anytime soon.

5 - alllllllll the way at the bottom... BEFORE THE STORM

the rest of this is just a huge fucking rant about bts...

i fucking hate this game fjskdjs i hate the dialogue, the voice acting (i’m sorryyyy but why did they NEED to make this game during the voice acting strike?? why did they NEED to make it without ashly burch???), i hate hate hate the story. the story makes NO sense, ignores canon, and even directly contradicts canon in some places. like, why the actual fuck would rachel’s dad be the DISTRICT ATTORNEY but when his daughter goes missing, he doesn’t give a shit? no one is looking for rachel?? nothing about rachel’s parents interested me at all, and it all felt so incredibly unrealistic. in the first game, we were dealing with things like time travel and a local kidnapping ring, but somehow it felt grounded in reality SO MUCH MORE than anything that happens in before the storm.

but my biggest gripe is that bts rachel feels like a completely different person to the rachel we “met” through context clues in the first game. it’s jarring. sure, the romance between rachel and chloe is sweet, but it’s not at ALL the relationship i imagined them to have. in bts, there is no indication that within just a few months, rachel will be cheating on chloe with multiple other people, and planning to leave chloe behind while she goes to california. and look, i’m not trying to slander rachel here. i think she’s super interesting and complex, and i DO think she loved chloe in her own way, but it was definitely not this cute, puppy love, exclusive relationship that bts showed us. there’s just no way.

and WHY did they do that to nathan’s character??? it’s like they were trying to make us feel bad for him by giving him an even more sad backstory, but like.. i already felt bad for him!! his story hits especially hard for me as someone who’s also experienced psychosis many times. it’s fucking terrifying already, let alone when people are trying to manipulate you. nathan was mentally ill and even when he was showing clear signs of deteriorating mental state, everyone just kept covering up his actions and letting him abuse drugs/alcohol. no one noticed him literally being groomed by his older, well-respected teacher and mentor, who was also close with nathan’s father. and at the end of the story, nathan is murdered by his abuser. that’s fucking bleak!! i already feel awful for him!! we didn’t need to see freshman nathan getting bullied and booed off stage and being yelled at by his dad. those were just cheap tricks. i wanted to see an actual exploration into his mental state and everything that led to the events of life is strange. at the very least, they could’ve shown us nathan & rachel’s friendship, or nathan, rachel, victoria, etc. joining the vortex club. we could’ve gotten meaningful character exploration but instead they were like “hey what if nathan was a poor little meow meow?” lmao

i’m not done complaining yet fjskjds after everything that happens in the first game dealing with being drugged, kidnapped, sexual assault, etc. why the actual fuck did bts show a funny quirky scene where victoria gets her tea drugged just so she can’t perform in a school production??? my jaw was on the floor when they played that off like a silly scene. like. wtf.

[ki-fi]

why is that? i dont mean to be rude just genuinely curious and i want to have a pleasant discussion if possible, maybe youll convince me to see things in a different way.

to expand on my tags, what im saying is that in my opinion og lis tied the story pretty well and didnt really need a sequel especially since the og creators have made several remarks about them leaving the story as it was intended and deck9 now taking maxs face for a final lifeline cashgrab (as deck9 is in a tight finacial spot, at least it was when i last checked when announcement about double exposure came out) is just pretty distasteful and plainly speaking rude.

on the other hand, dontnod was clear on them not furthering lis1 as they already left max and chloe fates into fans hands with the either ending you got. lis1 was a moody and aesthetical masterpiece and seeing DE gameplay just feels like they spit you in the face, with the way it just seems very much mechanical, ill even dare to say clinical (yeah, the graphics are the first giveaway, lis1 was stylized delight that your eyes feasted upon), theres just nothing about it that made the first game so great, no heart, no soul, DE is not only a slight to creators but fans as well and i mean sure you can enjoy it but we should face the fact thats its not life is strange game any more, but just a big satire of what it was, with characters (thats just max but their characterization of chloe too feels off) that look like the og ones but are not them. i just feel like some things should be sacred and not touched upon, as they already resolved perfectly and i get the craving of more, but its just not the way story was intented to be.

if you meant lis2 with wolf brothers as a sequel, next part of lis series, then i wholeheartly agree, it was an amazing journey and then im happy to be called wrong. and in case we just misunderstood each other dontnod created lis1 and lis2, deck9 - lis:tc, lis:bts and lis:de!

[xlostsoulsfound]

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[celibibratty]

i like that daniel being explosive/angry, it's such a HIS character thing, that on the special video for his birthday, it showed some daniel modes, and it has the "angry daniel"😂

[cutielatias]

Funny,the logo before (before the (ep1) forest part)was a skate not two wolves, i...didn't remember that

[touchoffleece]

No doubt we'll have some asses expose themselves against Safi, all the while also having performative slogans about current events in their bios or main headers. I do see Max and Chloe as iconic, but the idea of Max moving on with her life past the events of LiS 1 with a woman of color and coming from a different cultural background (even if it is toned down by being a x-generation of immigrant parents) interest me so much. And despite what people want to believe, no racism and race adjacent hate is not as obvious as LiS2 has people believe. So keep an open mind to the idea of Pricefield fans being in the wrong in the discussions of the new game. Chloe was an amazing character and is an icon for a generation of gamers but let's not make her the end all be all; which actually presents a modern dilmema to the og discourse and fan war LiS1 proposed us with its final choices: Chloe being there physically, or keeping the memory of Chloe and moving on with other people in life besides Chloe.

New Life is Strange game got announced, and Max seems to have a new friend named Safi whose Middle Eastern. Get ready to defend her from rabid Chloe Stans/OG LIS fans with the power of friendship and this gun we found...

~Mod René

[thingsarentgood]

I know we've addressed Sean's eye depending on the ending, but has anybody talked about the symbolism of how different Daniel can look? Like obviously in Lone Wolf he looks more outwardly like he's lived a hard life while in Redemption he looks more stereotypically "put together". But I want to get into the details of why he seems so thin in some endings? Or why he seems to keep short hair in Mexico but longer hair in America? Or why he has facial hair in some but seems very clean shaven in others?

[chloepricestan]

Oh so here’s my predictions right now based on the trailer

1. daniel’s going to hurt someone in this episode (or the next one)

2. you’re going to have to choose in episode 5 between hurting daniel or letting him kill someone / wreak mass havoc

why? I’ll explain under the cut.

what do y’all think?

OK SO in my playthrough I decided not to intervene and daniel fucking MURDERED THAT COUGAR right in front of my eyes. Okay

Then later on he swipes that police car to the side like it’s nothing. OKAY

Now in the trailer for episode 3 we have the line from somebody about “Your brother needs a lesson... you ALL need a lesson” >:C implying someone will try to physically hurt daniel

AND 

we see daniel lift a bigass fucking log over you just to prank you.

So let’s recap, we’ve seen Daniel...

Kill in anger (while conscious of what he was doing, not like when the cop died in the explosion)

Manipulate massive objects (huge tree, cop car)

Disobey Sean on many instances, more angrily now in the trailer for ep 3

Including pushing Sean physically to the ground with his power

Do something with his power that could kill Sean easily (as a joke, but still...)

which leads me to believe that Daniel not only CAN but WILL hurt other people with his power, particularly if he’s upset

and the narrative of lis1 leads me to believe that your final, most painful choice is gonna be letting him intentionally hurt people or stopping him with force

thoughts?

[this-world-of-beautiful-monsters]

something something episode 1 of lis2 being a condensed version of all lis1/lis2 starting where lis1 ends.

in the beginning we've got the dates--both games begin in october, with lis1 kicking off on Oct 28, a couple weeks after Storm Day on October 11. lis1 is (technically) contained within a week, while lis2 is spaced out over months on end, unfurling outward from a similar jumping off point as lis1.

both games begin with a powered character whose abilities are trigged by witnessing an act of deadly gun violence against a loved one. in both cases, this reaction in turn brings about further destruction (Daniel's immediate, but smaller scale, and Max's delayed, but much stronger) which shapes the rest of the game's narrative

in lis1, however, that violence is only the beginning of a much larger conspiracy of murder and manipulation, with the question of Chloe Price's shooting bleeding into the disappearance of Rachel Amber and a much larger conspiracy. In lis2, Esteban's death is a brutally simple case of all-American bigotry, kicked off by Brett Foster's casual racism/ableism and culminating in Officer Matthews' police brutality. The whole point is that there's no reason to make it a mystery, because shit like this happens every day.

and yet ep1 of lis2 is still a mystery, in its way, because Sean doesn't know why there was an explosion in Seattle, and Daniel doesn't know where his father is. Both boys pick up on signs that something is off, in a more restrained reflection of Chloe and Max's search for the truth throughout lis1, before both secrets comes out during the final confrontation in the motel room.

There are other visible parallels with Episode 5, like Sean/Max being restrained in a darkened office/Dark Room by a violent man with a brutal ideology and requiring help from an outside source (Daniel/David) to escape. And of course, there's the climatic storm (or "storm") at the end of the episode, with Daniel/Max violently losing control of their abilities with only Sean/Chloe to guide them through it.

unlike Chloe, Sean is able to calm Daniel's storm--but the Diaz brothers are still left with the worst of both lis1 endings, involving both the dead loved one who can't be rescued from Save Arcadia Bay and the destruction and exile left behind from Save Chloe Price. like Chloe and Max in the latter ending, they're seen riding into an unknown future together, overseen by animal guardians--the deer glimpsed in the ruins of Arcadia and the wolves in Sean's story.

the next four episode of lis2 provide an opportunity to answer all the questions we only get glimpses of in a Save Chloe Price reality--what it means to live on the run with havoc in your wake, what it means to really live with/love a person capable of such devastation, what it means to deal with the long-term effects of your own powerlessness in the face of such supernatural forces (which I really want to explore more later).

tl:dr ep1 of lis2 provides a spiritual recap of lis1 to expand and build upon everything discussed in that game in the process of becoming its own powerhouse. it's awesome to witness and I love it so much and I'm glad there are other people out there who do, too.