#like to the point of not acknowledging their personhood about it

[squirrelno2]

Ok so Davrin! I have Thoughts about Davrin.

Because if you’re aware at all of the stuff I write you’re probably aware that I am a big fan of the kind of character who subsumes their own desires and survival and personhood for the sake of being One Thing, whether that’s a living weapon/made to be a soldier situation or just a “I am Your Best Friend first and foremost situation”. It is, uh. Small wonder I end up liking characters of colour the most, since those are the ones most often written with a Purpose in the story who don’t get to expand beyond that Purpose in the narrative, or if they do have that arc that I crave it’s still underrepresented in fanworks so it becomes my favourite and most frustrating niche where I have to create the content I want to see in the world, which is “person who tries to ignore their own needs gets to realise they’re allowed to love and be loved whether or not they’re useful”. Please be aware that while I don’t specifically discuss Davrin’s Blackness in the next few paragraphs it is a large part of why I’m writing this now because it massively changes the way this story gets read, both because people with unexamined biases will gloss over his story and just accept Davrin as being a tool to the story instead of a person and also because those of us who are aware now must consider how to address such a storyline knowing that Black people most of all are reduced in their stories to things and plot points.

So getting back to Davrin in particular I am both obsessed with and frustrated by how he’s written because! His narrative is such a good example of this trope! He is a monster hunter, and to a lesser extent at the start a protector, and from the moment we meet him he is trying very hard to keep himself shut in that box. He downplays any effect he has on the griffons, is upset at the idea of taking care of Assan because that’s what the others are there for, he’s just the sword arm. As time goes on and we do things like, you know, fight an archdemon without getting our Warden buddy killed, he seems so lost and almost devastated to have not died when he was “supposed to” – and this is a man who doesn’t really seem suicidal at all, he has no real desire to die, he just. Expects to. And what he can do to save others is always more important to him than what he could do to save himself. When my Rook walked in there expecting to be overjoyed with him that they were both still around I have to think the gap in emotion was so jarring to both of them, because like. This man has accepted his own death in the face of the “greater good” for so long that he never once made a contingency plan or even wild hope for “what if I don’t die?” And it’s so cool that he and my Rook got to walk hand in hand through danger and decide they deserve to be happy! It’s so cool that you get to potentially get him through the entire game and into a life with open possibilities and who knows what kind of future for the Wardens! That’s my shit!

And while I can’t say I’ll never choose the Grey Warden option for the griffon choice, to me that is so much a metaphor about letting yourself become a weapon vs finding peace and joy that is in line with you as an individual that if I’m playing the game acting on my conscience, not a Rook who’s further from me, I will always choose Arlathan for them. Because that’s so obviously a metaphor for Davrin’s own growth as a character.

This is where it pisses me off, though – too much of that metaphor is treated literally. Davrin doesn’t verbally acknowledge what the griffons’ changing role means for him, and I’m unsure if an unromanced Davrin ever says anything about planning for the future, having only gotten through the game once thus far. The fucking epilogue where all the companions say a little line about what’s in their future and Davrin just mentions the griffons and not his own fucking life??? Like he had a little line about pursuing romance or whatever but again. That’s a romanced Davrin. If he and my Rook hadn’t vibed “the griffons found a new home in Arlathan” or whatever would have been presented as the sole culmination of Davrin’s character arc. I love coparenting a griffon as much as the next guy but we cannot replace the “sword arm” persona with a “griffon daddy” persona as though him subsuming his needs and wants for the sake of Assan is any better for him than doing it for the Wardens. What the fuck.

Anyway short version of all that is Davrin has my favourite kind of story, and griffons are a metaphor for the way Wardens treat themselves. and the POINT of me writing all that is that you cannot approach his story without acknowledging that the fact that he’s a Black man means people who work/ed on both canon and fan content are ready and willing to treat him as a tool in his own fucking storyline for the sake of an animal, and he deserves so much better because holy hell if you’re gonna write a Black man with this kind of “I exist for a Purpose alone” arc you have got to pay attention to what you’re doing. Please. his story involves Assan but it's not about Assan it's about him.

[shame-kink]

in that same light i really enjoy how all the zoldyck conflicts, despite carrying with them maybe the highest possible emotional stakes (and physical violence) you could get from them, still resolve at the end of the day as if it were a fairly “normal” family disagreement. it can feel bad for those of us who want to see illumi get punted but it does do a really fucking good job at hammering home that this IS a surprisingly less-dysfunctional family given how extreme their circumstances & behaviors are. oh god killua is being tortured as punishment for running away!! oh he talks his dad into letting him leave again. oh no illumi is trying to kill alluka!!! oh but he realizes her worth and then gets telepormed for being a wierdo about it. oh fuck oh shit killua attacked/threatened his parents!!!!!!!! oh they’re actually kinda proud. its great.

[dukeofriven]

I don't know are you sure there's just always going to be another Dave? Really? REALLY?

there will always be another dave strider but there will never be another terezi, there will never be another kanaya, there will never be another aradia, there will never be another jade harley. so many of the women in homestuck blatantly go against expectation and are so wonderfully unique for it

[leohtttbriar]

the sequence of “deadlock” to “thaw” to “tuvix” to “resolutions” is so interesting. a sequence of traumatizing events about: what it means to be intimate with no one but yourself, intimate with fear as a simulated person until you both fade from simulated reality but remain in the material one, and intimate with a merged half such that it's not two halves but one whole--and then with an equal with whom, by position and consequence, no intimacy can be allowed to exist. which i guess is just a different kind of intimacy?

it's like a cycle in which janeway learns she is alone in a fundamental way, making decisions and hard calculations with no other cooks fixing the broth, and while there could be a new and equivalent love, there actually can't. no matter the small acknowledgment, she walks back onto the ship to the start of the cycle, again. sacrifice, fear, choice, sacrifice, fear, choice, sacrifice--

in a meta way, there's an interesting read regarding how mulgrew didn't want janeway and chakotay to get together, and how she was right for it: the first female-captain character of this enormous franchise couldn't be the first to also have an explicit romance with her second-in-command. to be in a specific singular position requires constructing some scaffolding that might not otherwise be needed. in this is the implication that, while other captains would be as lonely as janeway, they might not be quite as actually alone. and it's like how strachey describes queen elizabeth i, forever unmarried, but in the most cunning of ways--prevaricating on committing to the personal, leaning into the tension but never breaking it, pledging only in the quiet so it can't ever be interpreted as contractual, all to retain a hold on centered power. a power which, in many ways in the story, is the ethic driving the crew back across the galaxy and acting as infrastructure for the culture of their unbelievably distant home, through sheer will. it's a kind of compromise of personhood to the position that seems particular to janeway, because of her gender and the fact that she's the highest-ranking officer of a distant culture's diplomatic and governing organization for 70,000 light years.

she has to be aware she's more representative than real at this point. like, it's almost an idea somewhat suggested by her brief duplication and her brief simulation. (and like of course she split tuvix back up--she only thinks now with two bodies instead of one, kathryn and captain, and it's inconceivable these separate persons might genuinely fuse.) the solitude of janeway makes either her insane or, as strachey put it, "a sane woman in a universe of violent maniacs."

[honeyspotpie]

Trudy Trout you are so important to me. For a show that's been specifically about the trails and tribulations of parenthood from the perspective of father figures and viewed from the lense of said fathers only, it's so refreshing to have a main MOTHER character who is as painstakingly tragic as Trudy. Because yes, her character is a commentary on the negativity of tradwife values - but being a "tradwife" doesn't exclusively mean being a perfect lover for her husband, but being a perfect mother to her children as well - and I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that and not acknowledging it nearly enough. Women, especially in that time, had to pretty much carry the entire burden of shaping and properly raising their children into functioning human beings, being their singular caretakers. Trudy (or the husk of the person who is Trudy now) having to properly shape and form the minds of her children when she herself is not properly shaped and formed. Raising them to be ready to face the great wide world out there, the same world that she struggles to face herself, the world that kicks her down everytime she gets up. There's so much potential to explore, so many poignant points to be made. Like look, I'm as fascinated by her relationship with Tucker as literally everyone else, but I do hope that at one point in the narrative the focus shifts to her relationship with Tuck, Tina and Timmy. Make Trudy realize how much her motherhood is intertwined with her personhood, and let us watch her grapple that.

[fallenrocket]

Some Random Galinda/Elphaba/Fiyero Thoughts

Note: This is mostly based on the musical, looking at the movie in particular--while I love the book, Fiyero is so different between the two versions that he needs to be viewed as two separate characters. Also, my shipping thoughts go hand in hand with my neurodivergent headcanons. For the purposes of this post, we have Elphaba (autistic,) Galinda (high-masking autistic/ADHD,) and Fiyero (ADHD.)

For as long as there have been love triangles and shipper wars, there have been fans who've pointed out the obvious solution of "So-and-So has two hands!" I've certainly seen the appeal of various OT3 ships in the past, but after watching Wicked: Part 1, I'm not sure if I've ever seen a love triangle as much in need of an OT3 resolution as Galinda/Elphaba/Fiyero.

Any way you look at it, it's clear that Elphaba is the apex of this triangle/polycule, so let's start there. The Elphaba/Galinda and Elphaba/Fiyero ships are both rock solid. Both have certain similarities, the popular hottie paired with the gorgeous outcast whose beauty can only be seen by them. But the road to how they get there in each case is a little different, so we'll take them one at a time.

Elphaba/Galinda

We have to talk about them first, obviously. That's why we're all here, right? The relationship so iconic, you can build a whole marketing campaign purely off the colors green and pink. These two have a classic love/hate setup, the old I Hate My Roommate, Oh No I Love Them! routine. But with both characters, it goes so deep. Being seen as a good person is crucial to Galinda's sense of self, and from the moment she meets Elphaba, who sees through her self-aggrandizing vow to use her not-yet-developed sorcery skills to "help" her, that sense of self is challenged. The image Galinda presents to the world is so carefully controlled and precise--her popularity is thanks in part to the fact that she's constantly performing "personhood" for those around her. But Elphaba immediately sees through her performance, calling her out in front of everybody.

That, I think, is at the heart of their early conflicts. It's not just that Galinda is pretty and popular and Elphaba is green and weird. It's that Elphaba has no issue pointing out that Galinda isn't what she pretends to be, and that rattles her. At the same time, it probably burns her up that Elphaba refuses to give in to what other people think about her, at least giving the impression that she doesn't care about their opinions. That isn't true, of course, as Galinda rightly recognizes at the Ozdust Ballroom.

When Galinda steps forward to dance with Elphaba, it's a revolutionary moment for her character. It's an unspoken acknowledgment that she had been cruel in giving Elphaba the hat, willingly admitting that she's not as "good" as she likes to think she is. But at the same time, this dance is the first truly kind thing Galinda does in the story. Like Elphaba, she hasn't stopped caring what people think about her, but for the first time, doing something right means more to her than just giving the appearance of it. So she stands with Elphaba among the stares and whispers, following her lead and doing her dance regardless of how it looks.

"Popular" is more than just a recompense, a genuine way to try and help Elphaba after tricking her earlier with the hat. Even as Galinda tries to make Elphaba more like her--ultimately giving up when she realizes how lovely Elphaba already is as herself--this is Galinda at her most unmasked, which actually makes her a little more like Elphaba. She is extra as hell throughout this whole song, delightfully goofy and hyper and excited. It's in stark contrast with Elphaba, who doesn't know what to think here, but this is who Galinda is when she's not performing for everyone around her. Elphaba is always 100% herself and never lets anyone take that away from her, and in "Popular," Galinda lets Elphaba see her.

When the break happens between them in "Defying Gravity," it has nothing to do with how they feel about each other. Their angry/frustrated accusations of "I hope you're happy" give way to their sad/wistful farewells of "I hope you're happy." Their essential breakdown is about, not who they are but how they are. Elphaba doesn't know how to go along to get along, even for the sake of playing a long game, so she immediately blows everything up with the Wizard and Madame Morrible because she knows how wrong this all is. She shows her hand without a second thought and is instantly prepared to throw everything else away for her ideals. Galinda, meanwhile, has spent her life being who other people expect her to be, and she doesn't really know how to give all that up--including her dreams of becoming a sorcerer and her chance for real power and influence--to take what feels like a shortsighted stand. Elphaba has no plan beyond "I won't do this" and "We have to get out," and as much as Galinda loves her, she's not ready or able to take that leap. They're both caught on diverging paths, reaching out for each other even as they're being pulled apart. Gaaaaah!!!

Elphaba/Fiyero

Even though Elphaba/Fiyero plays with similar archetypes and some similar themes as Elphaba/Galinda, their interactions and relationship are different, which is valuable. This isn't just a case where the canon M/F ship gets to "go there" while copying the F/F ship Because Compulsive Heterosexuality. I will say, the movie in particular gives me lots of Fiyero feels that I don't necessarily have with the stage show, so my thoughts on both Elphaba/Fiyero and Galinda/Fiyero rely heavily on Jonathan Bailey's interpretation of the character. In this version of the story, Fiyero does feel important to me, not just a shoehorned-in love interest for the sake of it.

Like Galinda, Fiyero is a character who masks/performs a lot. A key difference between them, I think, is that Fiyero has much more self-awareness about his. He knows what he's doing when he plays the role of the shallow party prince, essentially "giving the people what they want." But as hard as Galinda works to maintain the image she projects, I'm not sure if she entirely realizes that it isn't the real her. Both characters are trapped behind the masks they've made, but Fiyero definitely knows it, and I'm not sure if Galinda does.

At any rate, that's what we're working with when Fiyero meets Elphaba. In this instance, he clocks her before she clocks him--Fiyero easily defies her expectations when she rattles through her standard "no, I'm not seasick" list, and he immediately treats her like a person, something that not many people in her life do.

Elphaba quite can't see that at first, though. I don't know if she initially buys the performance Fiyero sells everyone else, but she's pointedly unimpressed by it. While everybody else is tripping over themselves falling for his charms in "Dancing Through Life," Elphaba huffs and rolls her eyes, even when Fiyero specifically meets her gaze in the middle of the number and gives her a little "hey, I know you!" wave.

So even though we get a bit of a love/hate trajectory again, it's not mutual this time. Fiyero is intrigued by Elphaba from the start, though not particularly because of her greenness--rather, he finds it interesting that she's immune to his charm. He likes that she speaks her mind and causes "commotion," and post-"Popular," he tells her she doesn't need to change herself. The unspoken implication? He likes who she already is. Elphaba is the one who holds back here.

It's not clear exactly where and how the change happens for her. Obviously, the rescue of the Lion cub marks the moment where Elphaba realizes her feelings for Fiyero, voiced in "I'm Not that Girl." But her opinion--and understanding--of him had already shifted. As he points out, some part of her chooses not to knock him out with the poppy spell, recognizing him as a potential ally to help the Lion. And it's in that scene where she acknowledges that he just pretends to be shallow and self-absorbed, adding that he's unhappy within that performance. So she's already made those observations about him. But when did it happen? For me, that's the part I'm not seeing on the screen, and it's an interesting question to wonder what causes Elphaba to reevaluate Fiyero in the first place.

With both Galinda and Fiyero, I think it's important to note that loving Elphaba doesn't change who they fundamentally are. This isn't character growth via The Love of a Good Woman. Both of them already are the people Elphaba comes to know and love, but the parts of them that she values are the parts that they tend to hide. Loving Elphaba makes them want to let themselves be seen, at least by her. By the end of the movie, Fiyero's feelings about how he wants to show himself are already changing, while Galinda is torn, breaking her own heart as she's dragged back into other people's expectations.

Galinda/Fiyero

Mileage on this one varies, I know. Plenty of fans will argue that this "triangle" really only has two sides, that it's Elphaba/Galinda and Elphaba/Fiyero. That Galinda/Fiyero is purely fake performative comphet. If that's your interpretation, that's cool.

For me, though, I do think there are real feelings there, on both sides. Galinda lamenting, "I don't even think he's perfect anymore, and I still want him!" feels major for her character, and I see Fiyero's care in how gently he responds when Galinda is knocked out by the poppies. And it's just more interesting to me if they both care about each other. I'm not saying their feelings for each other are the same as what they feel for Elphaba, or as intense. But in a hypothetical OT3 resolution for this story, I think their relationship would add up to more than just passing each other coming and going from Elphaba's bedroom.

I find Galinda/Fiyero very interesting because, even though they're the only "official" couple within the triangle by the end of the movie, there's far more potential in what their relationship could be than what it actually is at this point. In an OT3 scenario, I feel like their dynamic requires the most speculation or imagination. It's very clear what Elphaba/Galinda or Elphaba/Fiyero would be like romantically. But what would Galinda/Fiyero be to each other?

The way I see it, their canon relationship is hampered by two chief points: masking and outside expectations of monogamy.

Because both of them are performing most of the time, that extends to their relationship. Fiyero and Galinda start dating because each is very much The Sort of Person I'm Supposed to Date. When they flirt with each other, it feels like you're watching a play, two master performers "yes and-ing" their way through a relationship that's far more about the image they want to present than what they themselves really want.

Again, they're both drawn to Elphaba in part because she sees them for who they are and makes them want to be who they are. Fiyero's mask makes him actively unhappy, and at minimum, Galinda's puts her under a lot of pressure to maintain it and forces her into heartwrenching choices. So as they date one another--largely because other people expect it of them, because they're "perfect together"--their relationship is tied up in this thing that brings them misery and stress.

Furthermore, they're not really dating one another, they're dating one another's masks. We know that the real Galinda and the real Fiyero are both great--Elphaba wouldn't like them if they weren't! But in in their relationship, they don't really get to see the parts of each other that Elphaba loves.

That brings me to their other main hindrance. If Galinda and Fiyero are artificially forced into monogamy, then of course it's not gonna happen for them. They're just not it. Neither of them would choose the other over Elphaba, and if only one of them can be with her, than one person's happily-ever-after is the other one's loss.

In that way, I think a real Galinda/Fiyero relationship could only be possible inside an OT3. If both of them were free to date Elphaba, free to love and be loved by her, that could give them space to love each other, in whatever form that would take. Maybe it'd be romantic, maybe not (Lesbian!Galinda truthers, I see you!)--maybe they'd both have a romantic/sexual relationship with Elphaba and be platonic partners for each other. I'm not sure. But I do think they genuinely care about each other, and I think they'd be able to figure out what that looks like for them if they were both comfortable and secure in their relationship with Elphaba. If they didn't 1) feel forced to compete for her or 2) feel that, not being with her, they were one another's "consolation prize." And since I also think being with Elphaba would help them both feel more comfortable in dropping their masks and being their authentic selves, they'd have a much better opportunities to actually get to know one another.

[meat-wentz]

okay so i’m gonna say here: listen. you’re allowed to think and say whatever you want. sometimes though when you put those things on a large public platform other people will read them and they may find what you have to say hurtful, and it may be your first instinct to go on the defense and say uhm okay get a life if you find this hurtful, but you’ve gotta admit somewhere along the line that if this many people find what you have to say upsetting, there’s a reason why and they’re not crazy for seeing the offending pieces even if you don’t. you don’t have to be intentionally racist to say something racist or intentionally fatphobic to say something fatphobic or intentionally transphobic to say something transphobic etc. you may not even see what you said that was offensive but that’s why you have to listen.

you have to trust that marginalized people (and i’m directing this to marginalized people too) have spent the entirety of their lives picking up on how people speak to and about them to the point where they can see the hurtful matter underneath the seemingly kindest of words. and we’re sick of the way our personhood is approached and the way it’s hidden between words and they way the insult cuts like a knife even when it’s dressed as a compliment. you may not see the offending matter but maybe it’s important to listen to people who do, maybe it’s important to realize it’s not actually about you it’s about acknowledging hurt where hurt was dealt and listening and learning as to how it happened. you’re not evil for saying things, but there are lots of people here trying to explain why they’re flagging your words, maybe you should listen to them.

i’m japanese and which means i have flags for so many innocuous things. when people approach me with the words cute or quiet or small or comment on my hair or mention anime or mention even the most mundane part of my culture like ramen or sushi, my ears prick up. it’s a defense mechanism, all of these seemingly innocent things are things that have been used to fetishize or ostracize me, have been used to hurt me or place me beneath, i have flags on them for good reason, to protect myself. so people may not know why it feels weird to me when they use certain language around and about me, so i’ll literally tell them. it’s strange how many people i’ve known that have immediately put up their defenses because they thought i was calling them evil for saying something so innocent rather than listen to my lived experience of how this language has been used against me and why i prefer different language. it’s so strange how many queer white people i know who are amenable to my pronouns but aren’t amenable to the language i prefer to address me based on my experience being the race i am.

idk i guess the thesis of this is you’re not evil but also maybe listen to the people who are telling you there’s hurt beneath your words even if you don’t know it’s there.

[windybluebelles]

There’s plenty of fics about Kon hating being dehumanised, being shocked when not dehumanised, being turned on by being dehumanised- you get the point

I want a fic where he just doesn’t bat an eye at it, where he is so used to being referred to as an object it doesn’t even compute that it’s not normal. Yes, now, he’s acknowledged as a real person and treated as such, but it’s hard to think something is weird when you grew up with it. His first memories were of being in a lab and getting referred to as ‘project 13’, his only experiences of being a person were probably referred to in a future tense.

When he moved into the real world, he went by superMAN and everyone’s first reaction was to tell him- No you aren’t.

So even though he’s now referred to as a person, (as in he has actual pronouns now) , he still doesn’t have a name. He is still only halfway to personhood.

When he does get a name, it’s SuperBoy. At this point in time, he doesn’t have the best support system and has essentially gone from being an object to a glorified child star. Brilliant.

Shockingly I can’t imagine Rex Leech giving Kon a talk on why it’s wrong to be objectified.

By the time he does get actual guardians, (thank the Lord for Ma and Pa Kent) people kind of assume that he has had that talk. That he knows how he was treated in the lab was wrong. Heck- they probably think that someone has told him why how he was treated with Tana Moon was wrong! But no one really did.

His whole existence he has been objectified/sold/used, I can’t imagine he really knows why it’d be wrong if someone continued to refer to him like that.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

your “sentimonsters vs tropes” post made me realize how sentimonsters don’t work as a metaphor for marginalized people despite what other people say, because even if it was intentional, the show doesn’t acknowledge the fact that the majority of them get killed by the heroes, including Adrien and Felix (who are part of their race). Honestly, it makes me wonder if Miraculous ever did some sort of allegory right at all

(Post in question)

Before we get into it, I wanted to quickly define allegory in case that's a new or forgotten term for anyone as it's hardly common parlance:

An allegory is a narrative or visual representation in which a character, place, or event can be interpreted to represent a meaning with moral or political significance. Authors have used allegory throughout history in all forms of art to illustrate or convey complex ideas and concepts in ways that are comprehensible or striking to its viewers, readers, or listeners.

In the linked post, I chastised canon for not using the sentikids to say anything about personhood or self worth. While I stand by that, I will also give canon credit for the fact that sentimonsters as a race are not presented as a clear allegory for anything. The sentimonsters that weren't meant to be equal to humans are just worthless akuma knockoffs created to act as canon fodder. The human-equivalent sentimonsters are basically perfect humans who happen to have remote controls. You are never supposed to think about the implications of that frankly bizarre difference. There is not meant to be a deeper message and that's the right call because, when you look at the setup we just went over, you quickly realize canon didn't set itself up to make the sentimonster race an allegory for anything but eugenics.

While you can argue that canon is eugenics apologia, that is very clearly not intentional. I don't worry about kids walking away thinking eugenics are good because you only get that as a takeaway if you're actively searching for a message in canon's writing. There is no on-screen discussion of which sentimonsters are okay to kill or any other type of blatant allegory for eugenics. If eugenics = good is the intended message, then it's incredibly subtle.

While plot-level* allegory can be subtle, that tends to be rare in family-oriented media as the point of allegory is to convey a message. If no one is picking up on the message, then you've failed to make your point. That's why no one is watching Zootopia or Elemental and walking away asking, "Huh, I wonder what that film was trying to teach kids?"

Miraculous doesn't have anything that stands out as a clear allegory like I'd expect if the intent was to use allegory to teach kids something. I'd normally say that means there was no intentional allegory in the show, but we have straight up insane statements from the writers like this one about the season five final:

In the next scene, we can see Marinette taking the miraculous that have been standardized and industrialized by Gabriel and putting them back in shape. The writers specify that this is a parable about craftsmanship vs industrial production. The miraculous will now be adapted to every person, but we can’t see what they look like just yet! In this new world, the powers are all shared, among people who they trust and know will work for the common good.

Did anyone get this from the show? I certainly didn't. With the writers making statements like this, who even knows what messages they're trying to send. Between this and the reveal that Lila learned about Gabriel by reading Nathalie's lips in the season four final, I've given up trying to figure out what these loons are doing with their wacky storytelling. It's always fascinating to hear them talk about the story they think they've told versus what the average viewer came away thinking. I have never once seen a fan get the Lila thing. Everyone I've seen thought she was just evilly enjoying Nathalie's suffering, but it's pretty clear that the writers are quite proud of this and think it was a great choice! You know what would have been an even better choice? Letting Lila read lips at any point before or even after that scene to establish this is a skill she has. That's basic setup and payoff! Storytelling 101!

*As a quick clarification, when I said "plot-level allegory" that was me trying to find a term to convey the sort of high-level, in-your-face allegory writers use when actively trying to clearly convey a message to the audience. There are lots of works that have no obvious allegory, but actually contain subtle allegory for those who enjoy analysis or a select group that's in the know. Something the author had fun playing with, but doesn't expect the audience to get.

An example of more subtle allegory that comes to mind is The Little Mermaid. There are many valid queer readings of both the original story and the popular Disney film, especially since the book was written by an openly bisexual man after a man he loved got engaged to a woman and one of the movie's producers/major creative influences was an openly gay man. These fact have lead many to argue that the stories were always meant to be about queer acceptance on some level as opposed to the stories simply being ones that can be used to discuss that topic in spite of the author never intending that. (Which doesn't invalidate the value of a reading, btw. As far as I'm concerned, author intentionality only matters in very specific types of discussion. Most of the time, I'm a death-of-the-author girl.)

However, even if the two works are meant to be an allegory for acceptance of "alternate" sexuality, you'd be hard pressed to argue that the allegory is presented in a way that the average viewer is going to get. Everyone gets that Zootopia is all about prejudice being bad. I generally hear Disney's The Little Mermaid described as a silly fairy tale about "a girl giving up everything for a man" even though that's only true for the original story.

[skullmoss]

helluva boss really pisses me off, because every day it is more proof that vivziepop has no idea how to write female characters with their own lives and goals without having the anchor of a male character holding them down into the narrative.

the one female character with any actual nuance and care given in helluva boss is probably octavia, and she mostly serves as a plot device for her father. we don't know anything about her beyond what she represents to stolas. all conversations with her and about her revolve around stolas.

when a male character is present in a female character's life in helluva boss, the male character overshadows them and becomes the Main Person. stella is an antagonist, but once her brother is introduced he immediately takes over as an antagonist, leaving stella to be a lackey as opposed to an active villain with her own agenda and goals.

and millie has always been a problematic sticking point with the main cast of helluva boss, because she is so underdeveloped & underutilized compared to blitz & moxxie. she cannot exist separate from moxxie. the writing team for helluva boss clearly struggles to figure out what to do with millie outside of Wife. and it's at a point where it is entirely too late to reconcile and fix her role in the story without feeling like it's forced. knowing full well the prioritizing of male characters over female characters has cornered the helluva boss team into trying to acknowledge the 'millie problem' in a way where most people can tell they just...can't fix anymore.

so they give her an unplanned pregnancy/motherhood angst plot. and she is so underdeveloped and underutilized as a character, and the fandom is so hyperfocused on the male characters where they don't stop to think for five seconds about the female characters outside their relationship with their fave males, that some people think/theorize millie is upset because she cheated on moxxie, because the helluva boss fandom is so primed and groomed into simply not taking five seconds to try to understand why a female character feels a certain way unless they did wrong to their man.

there is a way to explore a lack of individual personhood and the anxiety of being pregnant and becoming a mother making that even more apparent for a character like millie, but the helluva boss writing team just does not function that way. i do not trust them with a pregnancy subplot just given the overall way they write and handle their female characters, shoving them into a corner where only the male characters can dig them out into relevancy before they get shoved aside once again. there is no agency.

[dekusleftsock]

Don’t y’all love it when a popular tiktok creator is analyzing a character and interpreting it so, so wrong, and him and his dumb ass take is spreading.

Like it was one thing for you to be wrong

ITS ANOTHER THING FOR YOU TO BE WRONG AND MAKING OTHER PEOPLE MORE WRONG

If one more person says that Izuku is “underdeveloped” and that he’s “uninterested in all of his other relationships” and that he “has a power imbalance in his relationships with other characters bc they care more about him than he does them” STOP. PLEASE STOP.

A fundamental part of Izuku’s character: He is an UNRELIABLE NARRATOR. Most of his character is, therefore, told through SUBTEXT.

Izuku doesn’t say that he feels ashamed about his feelings for Katsuki.

But he does say that he thinks they’re gross.

Izuku doesn’t say that he thinks that Toga and her feelings aren’t human

But he does say that she is the “perfect counter to this quirk”.

THE LIST COULD GO ON.

Izuku is an unreliable narrator in a third person omniscient story (though sometimes mha acts more like a third person objective story? Anyway). That means that the way we do not understand the story is not through a retelling of what is happening to you, the viewer, unreliably—instead it is not telling you the full extent of his character and his thoughts.

To say “izuocha’s relationship is underdeveloped because it’s one sided” is NOT the same as saying “bkdk’s relationship is underdeveloped because it’s one sided”.

Izuku has always been obsessed with Katsuki. At some point the rhetoric being passed around was that it was Katsuki who was underdeveloped and uninterested in the dynamic. Now that rhetoric has been reversed since we’ve seen so much of Katsuki’s POV.

Ochako has always been obsessed with Izuku, NEVER THE OTHER WAY AROUND. In fact, Ochako’s arc even surrounded letting go of those feelings… as literally said in the text. Because that is a textual statement that she makes.

Izuku does not understand how or what Ochako loves in anybody, especially him. She loves a unique sense of personhood, which Izuku has always carried, and of which she saw in the entrance exam.

Izuku does not know how to view things he deems as “girly”, and Ochako very personally CANT be in a relationship with someone that she has realized is very repressed. Her friendships turn from friends to fascination very quickly, into her heroic form. (Think her few moments with Katsuki in that extra, or how disinterested she became of Izuku as she saw him run away from help, and not know how to respond to an apology. Or, hell, how much more interested she became when Himiko was honest with her feelings in their second real confrontation. She even says that she “admires how she can love so freely, and say it with her whole chest”)

LIKE ALL OF THESE THINGS. THIS IS WHY IZUOCHA ISNT DEVELOPED. That’s a purposeful choice in genius writing, at least in my opinion.

Bkdk is a result of Izuku being uninterested in acknowledging said feelings, and this is shown to be different because of the amount of times he has had that imply a deeper emotion or thought that we are not told. Think black whip, controlling your heart solely surrounding katsuki, “my feelings are gross”, the ear piercing scream when katsuki was kidnapped and the “this was a total loss” line, relaxing into katsuki’s arms after the apology, only coming home because of Katsuki, comparing romantic feelings toga had for him and admiration to ALLMIGHT and not katsuki who was “actually in his life”, I COULD GO ON FOR HOURS.

This is absolutely NOT underdeveloped, this is called SHOW NOT TELL. Horikoshi is so purposeful in what he shows vs what he tells. He tells you that ochako and toga are the same, he tells you that katsuki is worried about Izuku, he tells you that katsuki is there to step in when deku can’t handle it on his own, he tells you that ochako has a crush on Izuku, and he tells you that Katsuki is Izuku’s “closest person”.

But he also SHOWS YOU SO MUCH MORE. Unreliable narration is such a key part of Izuku and his character. Izuku doesn’t understand Izuku as much as the audience doesn’t understand him. It’s why I genuinely think most interpretations of his character are wrong, because you really can’t take him at his word. It’s the same reason no one understood katsuki for the longest time, he was in the same circumstances of a character who is only showed to you, not told.

I know i named so many god damn references so if anyone is curious as to what specifically I’m talking about with what, I’ll gladly show what scene I’m referring to. Apparently I can’t remember a damn thing but this manga anyway.

[featherstorm2004]

Nana Shimura's guilt

Ok, so I'm sure plenty of people have noticed that in the latest chapter Nana has been insisting that Izuku must kill Shigaraki and that he's a wall that Izuku doesn't have to climb over. And I want to discus that as whilst I certainly don't agree with her, I find her reasons for such a perspective to be fascinating.

But let's begin with a trend I've noticed in any chapters where Nana and the vestiges talk about Shigaraki, and that's the fact that despite originally agreeing to go along with Izuku's wish to save Shigaraki they constantly refer to him as an 'it' or a 'thing' more often describing him as something less then human. And whilst it may not be surprising for the others to refer to him this way, it is incredibly disturbing that Nana his own grandmother seems the most determined to remove Shigaraki's humanity.

In fact it appears to be a theme that anyone who had a personal stake in how Shigaraki came to be are the one's most determined to ignore any sign of personhood inside him. This can be seen with Grand Torino, who despite having come to the realisation that his and Nana's decision was a mistake, seems to double down and tries to convince Izuku that killing Tomura is the better option; hell, literally the moment Shigaraki's identity is reviled he is the one to convince All Might that he isn't worth saving and that no matter his bloodline he's still a villain.

And he says this with full confidence despite the fact All For One outright told them both that he deliberately groomed Shigaraki to hate All Might and only chose him to mess with his enemy.

Even All Might chose to give up on Shigaraki very quickly and hasn't even thought about him since he found out, which is honestly really sad because of all people he should have been the one who cared the most, especially since he knows one of the only reasons All For One chose to mess with Shigaraki was to hurt him.

Which brings me back to Nanna and why she is acting the way she is and honestly, it's most likely due to a number of reasons and guilt is likely the most prominent one. After all it was her choices which led to Kotaro becoming traumatised and despising hero's, and it was because she was a wielder of One For All that her family/Tenko was targeted. Now I'm not saying it's Nana's fault Kotaro became an abuser, after all he was a grown man who was more than responsible for the way he handled his trauma however, that doesn't erase the fact that she was the root of his hatred which he passed down onto his son.

Not to mention she knows that the main reason Tenko was targeted was for revenge against her for defying All For One, so not only dose she have to deal with the fact that her son abused his child to near insanity but also her mortal enemy, who killed her, her master and tried to kill her student also groomed her grandchild to hate her, hero's and to become his next vessel.

That a lot of guilt for anyone to be burdened with and whilst it isn't directly her fault, the birth of Shigaraki is a result of the legacy she left behind.

And she obviously can't cope with that because if she did, it would basically invalidate every sacrifice she made for the sake of protecting One For All, so what dose she do? Well she makes a very human mistake and choses to ignore it. After all if Shigaraki is just a monster, a creature beyond human understanding then she doesn't have to face the guilt, "it was out of my hands, what could I have done?" "there's no point in dwelling on what could have been".

Ironically it's the same response All For One had regarding his own humanity. Essentially she's taking the responsibility out of her hands in order to protect herself because if she dose acknowledge it, it would essentially be an ego death for her and well humans are naturally programmed to protect ourselves at all costs. It's not nice but it's the truth, which honestly makes someone like Izuku stand out more.

Izuku has no reason to sympathies with Shigaraki, he has no idea what he's gone through or the history behind his creation but despite that he is the only person on the hero's side who has NEVER ignored him. Hell, even back in the mall scene where Shigaraki practically had him a gun point he still took the time to listen to him and give him a proper answer to his question and clearly what Shigaraki said meant something to him as he ask's All Might about it later.

It's clear that ever since these two have met that for some reason, whether it be the legacies they both carry or the fact that Izuku is just an innately empathetic person, these two have shared a connection. It's like Izuku and Shigaraki said, it's almost like fate has brought them together and we'll just have to see however that played out.

However, it's abundantly clear that whatever might happen between the two of them for Shigaraki to be truly be saved Nana and by extension all others who have kindly rejected Shigaraki will have to eventually accept that he is in fact human. They cannot keep pushing things under the rug because Izuku won't let them.

[lightningidle]

A thought about Gerard’s scene in Episode 18, which is: Elody watches the conversation between Gerard and Rapunzel.

                                                    ——————

Princess Elody is a tactical motherfucker, so even when these cool young women approach her and say all the right things, things that make sense, she doesn’t fully buy in. Not at face value.

When they talk about princes, it’s somehow both completely flippant and with caustic derision — like these young men were props meant to move the plot along, sole owners of agency in stories that weren’t even titled after them. (Elody wonders about their treatment of the princes as the fairies’ deux es machina, wonders about how easy it is to “kill a lot of princes” as Snow White explains. And by their own logic, how likely is it, really, that the princes are cardboard cutouts if Cinderella is so sure her stepmother, not even royalty, has her own book?)

There’s evidence to the contrary of this in her story specifically, which she has no trouble recounting. There’s no way her prince was meant to pacify her into an idyllic life, because he’s a layabout! He’s unreliable! And sure, he’s charming and fun, yes, he tried to pull her away from the war table, but that wasn’t because of any scheming to get her to stay in line, it was just because he wanted attention. He’s frivolous, he’s not a monster, she says. She’s so passionate in her defense of Gerard’s personhood that she almost misses the shared look of the princesses, the glint in Rapunzel’s eye.

Let us show you, Rapunzel says, what a monster looks like.

The scrying ritual is completed quickly and without fuss. Rapunzel stares into a mirror that ripples like water, and then, on the other side, there he is. More froglike than he’s ever been.

“You’re a prince, friends are probably pretty expendable, right? How many friends have you really had, other than Elody?”

Now hold on, Elody wants to say, that’s goading him. That’s not fair. Cinderella puts a firm hand on her shoulder and shakes her head no, to stay quiet, to wait it out. Elody bites her tongue and waits for Gerard to prove one of them right.

“Your friends seem to really value you as a person. I’m sure it’s a comfort to know that they’re not just sort of putting up with you because you’ll tag along and swing your sword, prove a little bit useful.”

Gerard has snowball fights with his friends. He has friends? He has a dedicated workout buddy? She’s not sure he’s ever been dedicated to anything, except for gossip... or her. Now that she thinks about it, he has always been unquestionably devoted to her, hasn’t he?

“I have seen some titanic feats of strength from my companions the Beast, Cinderella, Snow White. Truly impressive acts of heroism.

I do not think I have seen any of my sisters strain more greatly than the Princess Elody to find something kind to say about you.”

Elody does open her mouth to speak this time, which turns out to be a huge mistake when a writhing mass of knotted hair wraps around the lower half of her face. Not to constrict, only to silence. A pit forms in her stomach at the thought that Rapunzel might not be lying, that in trying to defend Gerard she only condemned the worst of him.

“Yes... I don’t... I don’t doubt that.”

Her heart breaks for the second time.

“But I haven't seen the Princess Elody in a while, and I think it's telling that I'm seeing you in this lake and not her or any of the other princesses. I think you’re... manipulating people, or not telling them the full truth.”

Her eyes dart to the other princesses. Snow White’s expression remains unchanged, though Cinderella’s darkens slightly. When Rapunzel speaks again, it does not escape Elody’s notice that she doesn’t acknowledge what Gerard pointed out; she deflects. Elody is getting angrier, now, tugging at the hair around her jaw, hardly even hearing the next bit until a third voice speaks up, says the Princess Elody cares for you deeply.

“Not quite the same thing.”

“It's not, but seeing as the last thing she saw of me was me running away after I had already done that, I’m grateful that she still cares for me at all.”

The hair gathering around her tenses. Elody was brought here to see that, when Gerard thought nobody else could hear, he would prove himself to be just an agent of the fairies, or an empty vessel, or a selfish monster. What she’s seeing is none of those things. But she’s also not seeing the man she knew as her husband: he’s grown and changed, almost become someone else entirely. She wants to call out to Gerard. She wants to get to know him all over again.

“Gerard,” Rapunzel hisses, “what do you think the odds are that it got into Elody's head that the virtuous thing to do was to fall in love with a cold and slimy frog, and that every kindness she has paid you in your life has been a testament to her charity, rather than anything about you that would bring her joy?”

Elody freezes.

“I don't know that I can answer that.”

“It doesn’t seem very fair to Elody that you can’t.” 

“... I agree.”

The image in the mirror of the man who will never be a man again ripples and vanishes. Elody’s hands have fallen away from the hair around her face, which is convenient, as she finds herself suddenly holding a book. The hair recedes, and she doesn’t register what it is Rapunzel is saying to try and placate her, because the book in her hands is a slim volume, bound in her favorite shade of green and embossed in golden ink.

On the front is the title — The Princess Elody.

[localguy2]

General analysis of DR Zane, S1 and S2 included (spoilers):

Man... Is this one a doozy...

Okay okay so, what I wanna touch on first and foremost is Zane's humanity, or his perception of his own humanity, because uhhh...

Folks the implications are NOT GOOD in the SLIGHTEST in regards to his Mental State and thinking process.

Something we've seen repeatedly throughout DR is that the merged realms and it's people in general don't view Zane as human, they don't see him as a person but more so a machine, or equipment.

We saw this first in S1E13 'Wyldly Inappropriate' we get introduced to "Zane Day", a day dedicated entirely to Celebrating Zane and who he is, and it sounds really sweet and it is- but...

It's celebrated in the worst possible way ever.

Zane is treated like a robot, like striaght up robot, when people speaks its all in an attempt to mimic a robotic voice, and sometimes people end up saying stuff that's really offensive to him (Zane look alike contest).

Heck, even other Nindroids are in on it.

This sorta paints a sad picture in regards to Zane, because it implies that the city (or maybe entirety of the Merged Realms) see Zane as just a robot ninja with cool powers, nothing more, nothing less.

And we see this a second time in S2E7 'Fugitives from Madness' and S2E8 'Secrets of the Wyldness', in which Zane and Cole fight off The Administration, and yet again we see how Zane's Humanity is absolutely disregard, heck it's even violated in this scenario, they don't even acknowledge him as a person, The Administration straight up calls him "Equipment".

Equipment that's to be destroyed when taken, and that's despite Zane proving himself to be an actual being multiple times to the agents.

So, what am I getting at here?

Well, in simple terms, The World of Ninjago Post-Merge doesn't really acknowledge Zane's humanity or his personhood, of course, the average everyday civilian to a lot less extent then say, an entire organisation, but the wholehearted confidence the Agents of the Administration say that Zane is an object calls into question whether it's their actual personal beliefs, or protocols set by the Administratior.

And... You know what's the absolute worst part?

Zane doesn't even TRY to defend himself.

Striaght up, he neither tries to explain what Nindroids are to people during Zane day, and just goes along with the flow.

And when fighting The Administration, he even OFFERS himself to them in exchange to let Cole and Bonzel get away, granted you could say it was part of his plan to buy him and the others more time, but his continued insistence on trying to find a compromise with The Agents sorta hammers home his whole hearted belief that he's:

A) Expendable.

B) Not a person, but a machine/"equipment".

Now, this might be over analysis on my end, but I would also like to point out the scene where he plugs himself into The Administration mech and tries to decode/hack their netrowk and systems.

In that scene, his mech gets stabbed in the back with a massive sword from one of The Agents, and instead of immediately getting the fuck out, he stays Plugged in and KEEPS trying to hack their stuff, all in the hope that he can finish it in time before he gets fried alive.

Unfortunately, that doesn't happen, his circuits get fried completely and he passes out.

But, it again (directly or indirectly) hammers in points A and B, Expendable, and Nothing more then a machine.

(I would like to add as well, his this parallels nicely with PIXAL in S11 during 'Kiaju Protocol', their stubbornness, and something I've neglected to mention about Zane which EVERYONE knows, is his Self-Sacrificial and Nobel tendencies).

And you don't even have to make that many assumptions for all of this to be considered true, just look at what he says...

In S2E5 'The Spell at the Waterfall', Zane finds a plush made for him by Frohickey, of Frohickey himself.

When Zane asks why Frohickey made him this plush, Frohickey says that he made it so if Zane had any issue to take up with him, he could talk to the Plush instead (reminiscent of his PIXAL-Brush coping mechanism in S1).

And Zane... Well he striaght up lies, he says and I quote:

"I do not expiernce heightened emotions."

Which, yeah, okay buddy, sure...

Just ignore the time you shut off your emotions... Sure

But anyway, this is really really unusual for Zane to say, he might not be good at emotions, but he'd never ever deny the fact that he feels all of them.

Well... Unless he fully believes he's just a machine.

See what I'm getting at here?

If he doesn't believe he's more then machine, then he sure as hell will make wrong assumptions and judgements on his own personhood and emotions, and... Why shouldn't he?

Everything and Everyone in the merged realms sees as him as nothing more than that, regardless of previous experiences and events that have impacted him personally.

It's wrong, really REALLY wrong, but in his mind, probably not so much.

So, what do I think they writers are doing this?

I think personally, this is all subtle and slow build up to give Zane an eventual arc, perhaps in Part 2 of Season 2, or in Season 3 even.

Because, even Doc himself recognised that Zane's character has become very stale and boring during the last few seasons, and given how pretty much EVERY CHARACTER in the show has gotten something to do that involves their character, it'd be particularly odd to leave Zane out (well unless they don't know how to write him).

And it's why they're deliberately making Zane go and say these things, it's subtle, but when it's time to give him his own time to shine, it'll make a lot more sense.

This could also related to the egg/pod thing he woke up in under Imperium, because Doc also said that it's a matter for later seasons.

But it remains to be seen if the future planned Zane arc/story is connected to the egg he was in, we'll just have to wait and see really...

[bonefall]

are there any differences when it comes to starclan worship and beliefs among the clans? considering how you’re taking a christian-flavored approach to their religion, there’s gotta’ve been some kind of “great schism” or “protestant reformation” religious discourse. especially when it comes to wind “we-sleep-under-the-stars” clan and sky “gone-for-the-past-50-years” clan

The most significant difference is between SkyClan and Forest Four worship. Between the four, it's mostly superficial ritual differences.

Traditional Forest Four religion is centralized. Clerics are both healers and religious leaders. There is a stricter concept of both blasphemy and dark magic that discourages personal worship of StarClan, so when you're given a strange dream or omen, you are supposed to bring it to your Cleric to interpret it.

By contrast, SkyClan has lived several generations on the lam. The closest thing to a Cleric they had was the Hub like Skywatcher, who was more of an "official networking expert" than anything. The Leader is the strongest spiritual authority and a Cleric is more of a doctor than a priest, so SkyClan cats nurture a more personal connection to Skypelt than Forest Four do with Silverpelt.

SkyClan's practices do not sit well with Forest Four. It's no wonder they have a demon like Brokenstar in their pantheon. Heretics, the lot of them.

As for Forest Four...

ShadowClan will surprise you with how pious they are. They have a deep connection to the Dark Forest with Ripplestar, Brokenstar, and Tigerstar in their recent past, so they fear the influence of demons more than other Clans.

So, their warding rituals also tend to be the best, and they're the most vocal about blasphemy. Clan cat AU of The Exorcist would have the priest come from ShadowClan.

WindClan is loud. The wind howls and so do they. They sing songs, chant as groups, and act notably performative about their piety. Visiting the Cleric regularly is a social expectation-- else you must be hiding something!

They have this practice of "counting their blessings," (Clanmew: "Pos shayu shai Laalha; For starlight I-lather") which basically means they like to point out the blessings StarClan has given WindClan. Usually this has to do with glowworms, an abundance of snails or rain, shiny things in general, a bountiful hunting week, etc.

ThunderClan does a lot of honoring. Sacrifices, dances, feasts. They have the most productive territory and make use of that. You'd think they'd get along with WindClan best, but they both find the other insufferable lmao

Leaftail: "bunch of shineless tailtasters over there-- they think they can just EAT FOOD and that means they're devoted to StarClan? I do that ANYWAY."

Shellfur: "maybe if they ate some more food over there they wouldn't have to visit their Cleric every 3 days. Your stomach growling isn't an omen bitch you just don't partake in StarClan's earthly delights."

Leaftail: "RICH coming from a TUNNELBUN BITER"

Shellfur: "MAAAAAAD that I eat YOUR food BETTER THAN YOU"

"SHUT UP"

"AND IM DATING YOUR COUSIN AND THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT"

And, lastly, RiverClan.

They take things slow and try to recognize the blessings present in their world. When something is acknowledged as having "personhood" in Clanmew, it's given a warrior name. RiverClan gives a lot of things warrior names.

They have a lot more rituals than other Clans, but they're little ones. Superstitions, really. Like saying prayers before meals, putting an intentional flaw in their crafts, throwing every 5th fish of a hunting patrol back in the river. Stuff like that.

[badfictropes]

Danny/Dani and Clark/Conner

(Warning: This is just my opinions and while I would love to hear other thoughts please be polite in your comments.)

Now I want to start by saying I don’t think Clark is wrong in feeling the way he does about Conner and about not wanting to be a father to him. But the way he dealt with and expressed those feelings is my problem. The way Clark treats Conner as if he isn't a real person with emotions and feelings and refuses to acknowledge Conner's personhood is fucked up.

Clark doesn’t want to be Conner’s father and while this is deeply unfair for Conner and will no doubt leave a scar it would be far worse to try and force Conner on Clark, I don’t doubt Clark will not be able to be the parent Conner needs.(Side note:does Lois or Clark’s parents ever find out about Conner in canon?) In DpxDc fics and prompts the JL trying to force Clark to play daddy is not going to do any good for Connor or for Clark. Clark does not see Conner as his own person/a person at all; all Clark sees is evidence of his violation and while this sucks for Conner forcing the two together isn’t going to help.

I read one DpxDc fic where Clark got therapy about this(Side note: this fic also pointed out how unethical it is to have a therapist that not only works under you but is also your personal friend ie Dinah. A lot of fics have her as not only the JL’s counselor but individual teammates personal therapist which just can’t be ethical.) and his therapist pointed out that Clark talks about Conner worse than he does Lex who actually violated his consent. I thought this was a very good point and definitely something Clark needs to think about. How is his opinion of Conner(who is the innocent and also a victim in this) worse than his one of Lex?.

Now for the Dp side. I personally am a fan of Danny being a mom(gender-neutral) to Dani(and Dan) and it’s my top 3 favorite Dp tropes but I know not everyone prefers it. While I imagine that after everything was over the full force of his violation at Vlad’s hands hit him I don’t think Danny ever wished Dani didn’t exist at all, I don’t think it ever even occurred to him to think that way. I could see him wishing the circumstances around her existence was different(after all Neverborne are a thing and it would be just like Danny to make one by accident) but he could never regret Her no matter how she got here. I’ve seen people mention that Dani manipulated and betrayed Danny and I’m just like while Dani has Danny’s memories she was literally created a few months ago cut her some slack, Dani was also being manipulated and used and Danny knows that he understands that; it why he not only helped her but forgave her. And I know people are going to be like forgiving someone is not that easy or quick but sometimes it is especially when your not even 18 and full set in your stubborn mindset and when your an empath like most people hc ghost to be(a little hard to stay mad for long when you can literally feel someone’s regret and remorse, it doesn’t hurt Danny no doubt saw Dani as someone smaller and weaker that needed his help and protection.)

Onto DpxDc. Now I think Danny would be sympathetic to Clark’s feelings and circumstances but I think his sympathy would end when he hears/witnesses how Clark treats Conner. Clark’s feelings are valid but how he deal with/expresses those feelings are not. Clark is a grown ass man and should know better than to take out his anger and pain on a child(Side note: Do you think Clark wouldn’t be as cruel to Conner or that the JL would be more intolerant of Clark’s behavior towards Conner if Conner was younger/a baby?). Danny would find Clark’s treatment/opinion of Conner deplorable after all Neverborn/Mirror born are precious no matter how they came to be and while it understandable Clark can’t be a parent to Conner that doesn’t mean someone shouldn’t be. Conner deserves to have a parent, a family that loves and cares about him; he deserves to be treated his own person and choose how he wants to live his life(not just be a hero) and since he won’t get that from Clark, the JL should find him a good foster parent he can get that from.

So in conclusion I think Danny would be sympathetic and understand of Clark’s circumstances until he sees Clark’s treatment of Conner/hears his opinin of Conner and then the sympathy is over; Danny will then focus on Conner and helping him/helping to figure out what’s best for him.