#like okay i respect actors but i am just Not Interested

[youmakethelight]

Dear AMC

Okay, so here's where I'm at following the David Zabel quotes released yesterday. I truly hate to be in this negative mindset and I wanted my tumblr to be a fun space only, but it's what I'm feeling, so I'm going to get it out. This is the most serious post I'll ever write (hopefully) so buckle up.

I'm not doing this because I don't want to continue to spread joy about caryl. I'm doing this because, if there's any chance, however small, that I can help to make a positive difference for the people I've come to care about, then I'm going to do that. This is because I care about female representation and empowerment. And because I care about what these stories mean to and for people, and especially people who relate to characters who have experienced abuse. Holding these characters' stories is a responsibility and those who do so need to be held accountable for how they do it.

I'm going to talk a lot now, but it's going to mainly be about Melissa, Isabelle's character, David Zabel, Greg Nicotero, and the idea of romantic caryl. I'm going to try to break it up into sections just because it's so long.

Melissa

Melissa McBride snuck up on me. I started watching TWD a couple of years after it first aired and like many, I fell for Daryl as a character. I observed his chemistry with Carol and always thought their relationship was something special. But like many, I gave up on the show around season 6/7. When TWD was released on Now TV in the UK this year, I decided to catch up, and season 9 hooked me on #caryl. Specifically, I was mesmerised by Melissa McBride and I've only grown to love her more. It's been beautiful finding the fandom and realising that Melissa McBride is the beating heart of it. She might not have as many Twitter followers as Norman Reedus, but she is valued more than I have seen any actor and she honestly doesn't even have to try. Fans will support her for walking to a car. I like Norman but I love Melissa.

Melissa looks happier than I have ever seen her look and she is honestly the only thing that has been keeping me tethered to any hope that I will enjoy this spinoff. My hype has been 100% driven by Melissa and how she has spoken about being back. I've already paid for Carol merch, which is something I never do. And if it wasn't for the fact I knew she was coming back at the end of season 1, I honestly wouldn't have watched Daryl Dixon. After investing in their relationship over 12 years of TWD, I'm not interested in seeing Daryl solo travel the globe and find a girl in every port. I'd rather watch something else and pretend the spinoff doesn't exist. But since Melissa is here and she's happy, I've still been hooked.

Seeing Carol confront her trauma surrounding Sophia is something I have been wanting for years. Since I started watching TWD again this year, all you'd ever hear me say is "why does no one ever talk about Sophia?". So I am beyond happy that story is receiving a spotlight in season 2. And I sense this is what Melissa is happy about too.

Beyond that, I really feel like Melissa doesn't have much space for her own voice. At SDCC, she said that she's quiet on her EP notes because she's the new person. And David Zabel made a joke that she doesn't want to make him cry (hilarious). Of course, I have no idea what the reality is, but my gut feeling is that Melissa is happy that she finally had some control with her character's own story after 14 years. But I truly don't believe she has even been given the space to think about how she *personally* would like the caryl story to look, let alone what they choose to do with the other major female character's story. I think Melissa respects Norman and trusts him with that part of the story. She knows he's had more power with the other producers - he was there for all of season 1, it's his name on the title of the show, and he chose the showrunner and writers.

And as for everything else, Melissa has spent the majority of her career in a male-dominated genre, all of her most powerful coworkers are part of that demographic, and in response to caryl, she has been the target of misogyny and ageism that is ongoing today. If I were her, I'd feel I can only speak so loud for so long before someone feels I've stepped on their toes.

While I do believe Norman cares about her deeply, I don't have any reason so far to trust that he understands the nuances of sexism well enough to be able to make the calls I'd want him to make. I really feel that if he did, he would never have agreed to the half naked shipbait nun scene in season 1. On to my next section...

Isabelle, David Zabel and Greg Nicotero

I will die on the hill that Isabelle's story should never have been touched by any inkling of shipbait, because she is a dedicated nun. The idea of romance for her present day story (especially with the male lead) grossly over-simplifies the decisions that led her to become a nun.

I do personally feel that the isabelle-laurent-daryl surrogate family idea is *pretty much* just that. I think, personally, DZ is lying when he says that the idea of romance wasn't manufactured. I think he wants us to believe that what we see on screen is organic. Absolutely nothing about the half naked wound helping scene, the happy stares across rooms with a happy score, and the 'isabelle just woke up in hospital and oh look its daryl's crossbow he must have been looking over her' scene is organic. Those are manufactured. Until episode 6, I liked isabelle and I think clemence is great. But daryl and isabelle's chemistry is non existent. I honestly think calling it a friendship is a stretch. Maybe the god awful, problematic "are you going to do to laurent what your dad did to you" could have been forgiven if they'd genuinely had any compelling bond whatsoever, but they didn't, and at best, it came off as needy. At worst (and what it actually was) was emotionally abusive. The thing I have always loved about caryl is that they *never* guilt-tripped each other like that. I really hope Zabel knows that line was truly offensive.

So anyway, I don't know, I think DZ would have liked it to go romantic, but nobody liked it. And based on the way they talked about it at SDCC, I think Norman is set on the idea it's really all about Laurent, and Isabelle is just another adult who cares about the kid so he cares about her too. However, I do think Nicotero and Zabel are invested in the idea that Daryl is falling for her. Nicotero in particular is obsessed with the idea that Daryl's falling for her while he doesn't know Carol is on her way - I actually find him enjoying that idea repulsive. So, I think they've written some ship bait in there, but I think Norman's acting choices will be reluctant. So, as long as there isn't something physical between them, I think Norman and Melissa's chemistry can recover from it. But. Zabel (and Nicotero) are showing their true colours.

While we're on Nicotero. I recently discovered that he has spoken about supporting bethyl before. So, if that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about him and his idea of how women and romance should be presented on screen in 2024, I don't know what will.

Romantic Caryl

Finally, I want to address the idea of whether Carol and Daryl should or could add a romantic element to their relationship. Lots of people that I agree with have already written well articulated thoughts about this, including this by my-mt-heart. My personal feelings are these.

Carol and Daryl have built a layered, deep, and emotionally rich relationship over 11 seasons of TWD. Fans are aware of the romantic layers throughout the years, and even those who don't follow it closely can see the romantic potential. It would be a disservice to fans to let those years of layering and emotional depth fall flat. And frankly, so many fans simply won't follow. (And if you're worried about fans who don't like the idea not watching - well, honestly, I don't like Richonne. Love them both individually but I never saw the chemistry and it felt random to me. But I still watched them and cared about them and their story and I even watched The Ones Who Live despite cringing the whole time.)

The creative opportunities are huge. Carol and Daryl are not a stereotypical love story by any means. Their dynamic has been fuelling creative minds for over a decade. I would personally admire any showrunner/writer who steps up to the challenge. Alternatively, not bothering comes across as lazy and cowardly to me.

At this point, there's absolutely no doubt in the audience that Carol and Daryl are soulmates. Their happy ending has been an important theme for a while now. And they are the characters that fans care about. Even fans who don't care about whether they have a romantic relationship agree that their idea of a happy ending would be with each other (and Dog). This wouldn't have to be romantic, but since we know that they are both interested in romantic relationships and have some romantic foundations together - why not? No other romantic relationship either of them could have is ever going to match up against Daryl and Carol's relationship. And why should they both be deprived of romance if they are both interested in romantic relationships? Who does that serve?

The idea that two people can so selflessly love each other for over a decade and end up together romantically is the ultimate bond of love. Suggestions that romance would 'cheapen' or 'ruin' a bond make me question what those people think romance means. It isn't the same as Richonne's romance. It's quiet and calm and careful. It's two damaged souls uplifting each other. So many viewers are empowered by that sort of story.

It would show that AMC are progressive and not ageist or sexist.

Final thoughts

I can't express enough how much I wanted to ignore all of my doubts about this spinoff because of Melissa's involvement and because I genuinely do trust her creative imagination more than anyone. But the comments by Zabel that were released yesterday have brought back the pit I was feeling in my stomach. I trust Melissa and I will always trust Melissa. But I don't trust Zabel. I don't trust that Zabel is doing right by Melissa or by the characters of Carol and Daryl. That doesn't mean that I think he's evil and doing nothing at all right. I just truly believe that we deserve better and Melissa deserves better.

I will give all of my hard earned cash and time to Melissa projects, but I won't do the same for Zabel, or even Norman without Melissa.

[socgf]

the outsiders bts tea from rob lowe's book: part 1 (casting)

okay i am reading rob lowe's autobiography and taking notes on anything the outsiders related! this first part is some personal background as well as the casting for the outsiders.

i know some of this is already common knowledge about their audition process but i thought rob had some interesting insights/ways of describing it so thought i would share. 😁 also i am recording every word he says about matt dillon because that's my man

ch 1-8: early life and acting idrc

at 15 rob gets a role in a tv sitcom, "a new kind of family” - this is when he first starts being seen as a teen idol, he's only 15 and getting fan mail from men in jail asking to see him shirtless :( and girls chase him around and basically jump him, they steal his shoelaces (?) he writes a lot about how he hates this ear piercing scream of teenage girls

he moves to santa monica and becomes friends with the LA actors crowd, mostly through his high school - he’s friends with the sheens and penns, robert downey jr, emilio estevez

charlie sheen is a freak and sometimes wears a bulletproof vest to school and is a huge conspiracy theorist but we knew he was a weirdo

but the tv show flops and he has trouble landing acting gigs for a while, he feels like a has been at 17, thinks of doing something else with his life, is ready to go into usc

in december 1982, he’s told he can audition for the outsiders - it’s basically his last chance

ch 9: the audition process part 1

LA auditions: tom cruise, emilio estevez, tommy howell

every male actor in hollywood between ages of 15 and 30 were being asked to audition

coppola didnt even know the outsiders existed until one middle school liked the book so much that they petitioned it to be made into a movie and he was like okay

rob says s.e. wrote the outsiders set in the 50s? maybe a writing mistake but i think that’s so funny if he actually thought it was in the 50s this whole time

rob sees emilio at the soundstage for the audition among 25 other actors, the audition is nothing like he's seen before, emilio is wearing a ‘ridiculous looking pompadour’ and rob asks him wtf is going on, emilio is like “hey what can i say it’s francis” - his dad genuinely almost died of a heart attack working for coppola on apocalypse now

side note the filming process of apocalypse now is absolutely INSANE - sickness everywhere, a tapeworm coming out of martin’s driver’s mouth at one point, playboy bunnies were just written into the film etc

everyone is leaving the auditions miserable except for this one guy who comes out all happy, telling rob and emilio that francis sent all the actors away except for him - rob describes him as friendly and funny but having a robotic, bloodless, focused intensity (tom cruise btw)

francis keeps switching everyone’s parts and having them read each others parts in front of the other actors

tom reads for sodapop randy darry and dally!

rob reads for sodapop and randy

emilio reads for sodapop and darry

the auditions have this insane setup of a table with a small light and 4 chairs in the middle of a dark room, everyone who’s not in the scene is circling around watching- he describes it like a boxing match

he says tom looks like he wants to bash his brains in and steal his role from him

1st lineup: dennis quaid as darryl, scot bayo as sodapop, tommy howell as ponyboy

tommy is so lowkey he doesn’t seem like he’s trying, but also seems very real and authentic, he looks like a baby

tommy is stonefaced and cool the entire time he’s watching others, they can’t believe he’s only 15

mickey rourke comes in and rob says he looks dirty and homeless lol francis worships him

2nd lineup: rob and tommy play their respective roles with john laughlin as darry

robs entire career lowkey rests on the soda crying monologue, he’s only able to cry because he sees tommy’s eyes water for him (aw)

francis gets mad at some of the actors for pronouncing soc as sock LOLLLL

the role of sodapop is most coveted after ponyboy, it’s supposed to be huge, romantic, with the big breakdown scene at the end - he will bring this back later i assume with how he was upset about it being cut

NYC auditions: matt dillon, ralph macchio

they fly to new york for the next round of auditions

on the flight together rob tommy emilio and tom are ‘working a cute stewardess for alcohol’ lol and become friends - this is like the LA squad

the new york actors make up the other group which is kinda fighting for roles against this LA group, they’re tough, intense, serious

the actors stay at the plaza hotel and they’re told they need to share rooms

as soon as tom hears this he calls his agent and rob literally does an impression of him “uh paul? they’re making us share 😠” he is certain this is not right and wants this fixed asap, he’s already a diva

the boys go out to times square and get super drunk

next morning is what rob calls the east coast vs. west coast acting brawl (screentest time)

rob’s impressions of the other actors below:

matt dillon

matt is already a huge teen idol, he’s pretty intimidated by him

he’s reading the part of dallas - “and by reading i mean reading, he’s holding the entire script with his eyes locked on the text” - idk what he means by this i thought this is what they’re supposed to do.. whatever

after a while he puts it down and is paraphrasing completely, adlibbing, making up dialogue while the other actors try to keep up with him

he can’t tell if francis told him to freestyle it or not - if so, he’s got the part locked in and if he didn’t, then matt dillon has “dangling, clanking, scary big elephant balls”

ralph macchio

he recognizes ralph because they were competing for a part in ‘eight is enough’

describes him as a tiny kid, bro is 21

he says it’s clear he’s the front runner for johnny

ralph says him and matt have only been reading for their respective parts and have been doing so for days (together btw) (it’s clear the dally-johnny dynamic is very important to francis)

this is very interesting to me!!! how everyone else was so in between parts and matt and ralph were just. locked in from the start. and paired.

tom comes in and is asked to do sodapop, he is nailing the breakdown and rob’s like ‘i’m done that’s it’ - he is a force to be reckoned with

then tom stops in the middle of the scene!! and says “this just isn’t working for me i’m sorry”, francis lets him try again but it doesn’t hit so that’s how he loses the role basically

rob does the scene and crushes it

that’s all for chapter 9, no one is casted yet. the only greaser not mentioned at auditions at this point is patrick, i assume he will get to that + diane lane + others in the next part though, and it’ll also cover the dynamic between the cast once they already get the roles

pt 2 coming soon hopefully some more juicy stuff 😋

[defective-4068]

Ngl I actually can't wait for this season to end so that my hyper fixation can move to something with a significantly less toxic Fandom than this one. I love the show, I have since season 3 aired, I love the characters and I love the cast and crew but the way that the cast and (to a lesser extent) the crew are treated by many people in this fandom is absolutely fucking despicable and I want you all to know that if you are not calling people out for this behaviour then you are also part of the problem! You have the right to not interact with the Fandom to protect your mental health but if you are choosing to ignore people harassing actors, crew members and other members of this fandom then you need to take a good look at why you are doing that.

People have every right to not like characters (even if you don't have an explanation for it) but going after the actors/actresses playing those characters and attacking them because you don't like the character that they play is NOT OKAY! I would like to say now that this is not just about Lou FJ (although he is the actor of choice this season), this has happened EVERY SEASON! Every season the Fandom seems to find one actor/actress and pick them apart piece by fucking piece. Last season it was Annelise Cepero, the season before was Megan West (yes these people also happen to both play bucks love interests) and so on.

When actors and actresses have done something genuinely wrong then they should 100% be held accountable for those actions, but what shouldn't happen is people scouring these actors pasts for reasons to hate them and shit that they have long moved past because I guarantee that anyone who has been on social media or who has even been alive for any extended amount of time has said or posted something extremely questionable. I am not going to defend anyone because at the end of the day, its not my job to defend celebrities for the fucked up shit they did/said yesterday, let alone 5-10 years ago.

Anyway, maybe people should just be fucking respectful (I'm talking about EVERYONE, celebrities included), that's the point of the post. I also want every toxic, over involved fan to know that YOU are the reason that no one likes us.

I'm done now.

[lemotmo]

🤣😬 yeah they're just unlike anything I have ever seen.

Q. Still think they aren't trolling? They're so embarrassing around one another and the fact that you all find it cute and not highly unprofessional and gross tells us all we need to know about you all. As inappropriate as their behavior is they still must be so mortified by you all and that says a lot. Yes podcasts and journalists and the marketing team love them but they are not canon. But try harder to intimidate people into submission.

A. Okay I'm going to answer this and then no more from you all because you're truly a level of deranged that I have never encountered in all my years of fandom life. Seriously, intimidating? Who am I trying to intimidate? I don't care that you're offended by the fact they're friends. I don't care that you believe they're trolling you (they aren't. I promise they don't think about you all). I don't care that you all feel 'attacked' by the content we got last week. I get it. It was a bad week for you all. And you finished the bad week with confirmation that your guy wants absolutely nothing to do with you. He thinks you are just as unhinged as the rest of us do. And instead of taking the hint you all decided to double down on your crazy and go after his sister. Proving he was correct in deciding to ignore you all. Nothing the show is doing is about or for Tommy. I know it. You know it (which is why you all are spiralling all over our ask boxes). Nobody cares. And that's the real problem for you all. We don't care. Oliver doesn't care. Ryan doesn't care. The show doesn't care. You are going to get to see him in season 8 in some capacity but then he's going to be gone. I don't like a single thing about the man but I will be forever grateful that his pathetic attention seeking weeded you all out of the fandom. I have no doubt that you all will try to make things as miserable as possible once his character is shown the door, but I won't care about you then either. I'm done giving you attention. Episode 7x4 was about Eddie. Everything that came after was about how differently Eddie sees and deals with Buck compared to all the other people he has dated. And every single one of you knows it. And that is pure satisfaction on my part. You know it. You see it. You try so hard to pretend it's anything else that you end up proving all of our points even further. Everyone is done with you. And now that even includes the man you all started all of this for. Which is absolutely hilarious. Bye now. I'm going back to enjoying my show.

Thank you Nonny.

I swear, each time I get one of these asks I am more baffled. How is it gross that two actors on a TV-show genuinly like each other and like spending time together? What planet do these people live on? This is called 'friendship'. Look it up in a dictionary if you have never heard of it.

Oh and the anon asker is right, Buddie aren't canon... YET. Give them some time. They'll get there. ;)

As for Ali's answer to this truly bizarre question?

Mic drop once again! All the way!

IMPORTANT! Please don't repost this ask and/or a link that leads straight to my Tumblr account on Twitter or any other social media. Thank you!

Heads up! For anyone who is giving me the shifty eyes for reposting Ali's updates instead of reblogging. Read this.

Remember, no hate in comments, reblogs or inboxes. Let's keep it civil and respectful. Thank you.

If you are interested in more of Ali’s posts, you can find all of her posts so far under the tag: anonymous blog I love.

[sarejima]

i am a starving child and am requesting kyman fanfics to soothe my hunger (PLS recommend ME SOME)

OMG YAY SOMEBODY ASKED ME SMTH IM SO HAPPY AMSBSDB

Unfortunately I'm a green and inexperienced mother but I'll do my best!! (thisll be long as i cant keep from waxing poetic about fics i like)-

The love of my life and one of the best things I've had the pleasure of reading period is “Know your Enemy” by Elsen. It's beyond perfect to me enough so that even though it may never be finished I'm sort of satisfied. Eric's characterisation is beautiful and literally just as hilarious as in the show itself with the way he schemes and jumps over nonsensical hoops in his head in order to satisfy his self image in processing his feelings for Kyle and unwitting desires to submit to him. The plot and setting in and of themselves also somehow complement his absurdity. Also has just the right amount of perversion. (Okay I'm done sorry)

Another genius Cartman channelfic that I was audibly giggling at due to the insanity of his mental gymnastics is "I crush everything" by Rainbow_Convection which is quite short and mainly deals with him "processing" his feelings

(The above person is really good at writing compellingly about manic impulses and emotions so check out their other fics too)

On a similar note and also exploring implications of Cartmans outright deluded conscious, this time through Kyle's perspective, is 'Imaginationland 4: a tale of two Kyles' by Sinshipsahoy where it's revealed to Kyle (in increasingly horrifying ways) that Cartman's mind is (literally) swarming with him.

(This guy also has a worryingly well written corpse desecration fic so if that's your cup of tea)

In the 'I'm with Stupid' series by numbknee Eric gets together with Kyle and is annoying and fiercely loveable and everything's great until Kyle realises that sadly Cartman's views on relationships/love in general- but especially with Kyle, his 'enemy'- had been significantly skewed from the start due to an aversion to vulnerability, stunting their progress. I especially like the fourth and last fic/chapter.

Kinda depressing but in 'Sharing Last Names' by serpenrzbreath an adult Cartman's Kyle obsession is partly due to lamenting, while in the depths of denial, his own collosal wasted potential as over the years wasted rotting and room-bound due to severe mental instability but also just lack of trying, one of the only things grounding his shame is Kyle's comparative success, and when a time of reckoning comes an unwilling(?) Kyle is all he feels like turning to. However he soon learns that pity and concern is much more confusing and enraging than ire.

Some more Kyle focused fics are

'Love and the other thing' by Gumdroppy where we get an equal amount of Kyle and Eric perspective- Kyle who revealed his love for Eric as a kid first and loves Eric WAY too much for his own good(to the point where his friends feel the need to take measures to ensure his best interests) and Eric who perhaps fell harder- worships the ground Kyle walks on- but can't seem to help the kneejerk hurt and abuse that flows from his hands. Bonus points for jealous Stan and Kenny being an angel.

Ans also by Elsen 'How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Let My Mortal Enemy Eat My Ass' which is really hot with a compelling theme of overcoming Kyle's past trama what can I say

'It's basically a weird cat, right?' By Verimakea is a adorable fic about adult Kyle who by chance meets Eric in raccoon form(and then not-so-raccoon form) in which Cartman has separation issues and Kyle is forced to battle loneliness and incteasing mildly worrying feelings for this addition to his life.

Some other concepts:

'Baby, Just Say Yes' by shortstackedcheesecake96- a beautiful wonderful fic where the palpable chemistry between a (surprisingly earnest about the subject and a talented actor) Cartman and (quite good novice) Kyle get cast as Juliet and Romeo respectively. There's so much compelling teenage awkwardness where they both appear to be unwillingly drawn to each other despite everything in ways they feel they really shouldn't- Kyle especially is almost embarrassingly captivated by an Eric in his element- and it's such a pleasure to read; just thinking about some scenes has me wanting to reread it lmao.

(This writer also has a lot of enticing and well-written smut too)

'Fake it 'till you make it' by mewtwos is another fic I hold so so close to my heart in which Kyle and Eric have to fake date for a bit, until they realise that these fake displays of affection draw them in a little bit too hard; make them a bit too lightheaded, and by that point the reel has already been cast. It's insanely well written.

'Expertise' by Mewtwos where Eric is a little too eager to practice kissing with kyle and they have a little awakening

'To Be Wanted' by Verimakea- a Cowboy au where Kyle takes it upon himself to capture Wanted Sheriff Cartman, but things quickly gp array and they and up stuck together in one place for an indeterminate amount of time, with Kyle put in a position where he often has bo choice but to rely on the other. This writer is seriously skilled at painting subtly erotic/suggestive imagery, and writing complex emotions into characters through their actions so its quite the fun leg-kicking read lol.

'Copacabana' by Senkenwoo is a bittersweet fic about jaded middle aged retired performer Kyle recalling how he lost his charming and endearingly annoying bartender lover

Some unconventional smut cus y not:

'Laid To Rest' by gosh_zillah in which Kyle has a deep seated desire to be a cocksleeve and subsequently gets watched in his sleep by an enthralled little audience for a bit(among other things as he proves to be quite perceptive lol)

"You're in his DMs? i'm in his walls, we are not the same" by ratherblue - Eric watches Kyle have smexy times thru a hidden camera; implied mutual pining. Also Kyle's trans

'Cause I'm a free bitch, baby' by knumbknee where Kyle sees an Eric in proper drag for the first time and is transfixed

'sleep tight' by bloodylamb is a quirky little sleepover somnophillia fic where Kyle's mildly vocal about his Eric-disposition in his sleep if you're good with dubcon.

I'm sure you weren't expecting to be waterboarded by text and for this I apologise

[just-b-wilde]

I saw seven episodes of the third season...

Okay, in the context of things, season three is much better than I remember. And my main takeaway? There are a lot of hints in season three about where season four, and even the finale, will lead. But maybe more on that later.

What do I like about season 3?

Five and Lila - of course! I love their scenes.

Sloane and Luther - oh my gosh, I fell in love with those two in my fiction and now I enjoy them even more.

Klaus - honestly, his scenes with Reginald are actually interesting! Yes, Reginald is still a bit of a bastard, but it's actually nice to see him interact with "one of his kids" somehow more.

I liked the debate between Five and Victor when he told him what he did to get them back. God, Aidan is such a great actor! He can evoke authority and respect, just like his character should be able to. I like that a lot.

I liked when Lila talked about time travel and the necessary point to focus on. Haha, say hello to S4.

Oh, and I also liked the trip of Five and Victor!

And what don't I like about the season 3?

After how great Ben is in S2, Ben from S3 is like a kick in the gut.

I remember now why I have a problem with Allison.

The Harlen story. Harlen is like "I have no idea how to live with my powers" and then he seems like someone who teaches Victor because he can control it better than he can? Like… what? And then the thing with Allison? I mean, on the one hand, I get it, but I have a weird feeling about it.

Victor seems awfully whiny to me. I wouldn't mind it in a woman, but I really hate it in a man. Sorry.

I'm not a big fan of the Stanley plot.

And I would also like to say… it's nice to see Lila and Diego working together, isn't it? Except not at all! God, what was that? Lila was worried about Stanley, but instead of looking for him, she was eating sushi? They can't agree on anything and even Diego put them in danger (but yes, it's true, who knew how dangerous a bell could be, right?). Could they survive more than a week on the subway when Diego managed to lose two fingers in five minutes? 😅 Am I biased towards their relationship? Well, maybe… a little. But in that scene, neither of them proved to be a capable parent, and their cooperation was questionable. Besides, Stanley was really a kid with a lot of problems. Diego wouldn't say half a word to Lila about it? Well, they're all kind of mentally disturbed over there, so why am I surprised.

Yes, Lila and Five may hate each other (but honestly, after the bathroom scene, I don't even get that feeling) but they can work together and surprisingly, they can respect each other. Five is still more of an authority figure to her than anyone else in the family. Lila is not stupid or incompetent, but she is often very distracted. I think Five can kind of keep her grounded and let her fly at the same time. I don't know a better way to describe it. But he's never surprised at her behavior or what she says or does. But Diego, he doesn't understand her behavior almost most of the time. They're not often on the same frequency (maybe so when they're in bed together).

I'll continue tomorrow.

[jokeroutsubs]

[ENG SUB] Bojan Cvjetićanin for the podcast To je moja muska ('This is my music')

To je moja muska ('This is my music') is a podcast of the Val202 radio programme in which each guest provides the song selection, explaining their choices during the interview. The original interview was published on 1.07.2022 and can be found at this link.

Transcript and translation by drumbeat, proofread by a member of JokerOutSubs and X klamstrakur, subtitles by drumbeat.

The audio version of this interview is also available with Italian, French and Serbian subtitles. Translated respectively by @varianestoroff, X Yoda_Bor and IG marija_rocen.

Transcript below the cut 👇

To je moja muska. ('This is my music'.)

Host: Bojan Cvjetićanin, welcome to 'This is my music'! The show where the guests choose the music that has defined a particular time in their lives, or that they just like, or that is linked to an event in their lives. Can I try to guess what you've chosen? Usually my guests tell me upfront, but you didn't.

Bojan: You can try.

Videosex? As locals?¹ I just gave you an idea, didn't I, you'll change it. Then Elvis Costello and ABBA.

Bojan: ABBA is spot on.

Okay.

Bojan: ABBA is spot on.

To je moja muska.

How much has your taste in music changed over the years? Were you, I don't know, rebellious, did you belong to a subculture?

Bojan: It hasn't really, honestly, it hasn't changed, I've just been adding new artists to the repertoire, so to speak. But my taste hasn't changed.

Did you have any posters in your room?

Bojan: I had posters, and in fact I still have them, in my old room, all over the room, from Green Day.

How often do you go back to the old music, let's say very old music, and how much do you stay up to date with the contemporary and which one inspires you more?

Bojan: Now I don't know what you mean by old, but let's say 60's, 70's, okay. Yeah, I really like listening to music from that era. I would say it inspires me quite a lot, and if it doesn't, it's an influence for sure. Otherwise, I also really like new music, especially Slovenian. So my Slovenian selection will be very contemporary.

Tell me, what is your local selection?

Bojan: My local selection is 'Angeli' by MRFY.

Why?

Bojan: Because it's a song that I really like to put on at times when I'm not thinking about it, and then it pops into my head, like, 'Ah!' Spur of the moment, let's go! A great song.

Is there any rivalry between you?

Bojan: Absolutely. There's major rivalry between MRFY and Joker Out, which makes sense, because we're peers. But this is one healthy rivalry. I don't think either of us hates the other, except Štras² hates me, and I hate him back. (laughs) But no, I think we have a very healthy relationship.

To je moja muska.

You're not just a singer, you've got a few acting roles and event hostings under your belt. I've heard in one of your interviews, you said that you compared yourself to Val Fürst³ and realised that maybe you are not as talented, but still. How interested are you still in other artistic areas?

Bojan: I am very excited by and interested in acting. I know and understand that I am not a world class actor, but I feel that for these roles I've been cast in, I'm suitable and that I am good at what I do. At this point I feel that I don't want to stand on a theatre stage or go to AGRFT⁴ first and study for it. That is what I meant by Val Fürst being superior. Somehow I felt that Val really had it, that certain X factor, as far as acting is concerned. But yes, I am interested in acting.

Okay. Hosting?

Bojan: I like hosting. I found EMA incredibly stressful, incredibly enlightening, but I wouldn't do it again.⁵

What makes a frontman of a band, in your opinion? What are those traits, qualities?

Bojan: Yeah, a frontman just has to be very willing to share all of himself with everybody, that on stage he leaves nothing behind.

For example, Damiano David, Måneskin, who you also portrayed with Maja Keuc in the song 'Zitti e buoni'⁶, said that he learned this interaction with the audience on the street, where people don't show up to your concert, but you have to win their attention. How did you master it?

Bojan: I worked on graduation trips, as MC, so that was my job, to get the 500 graduates who were all very different, motivated to hang out, to have fun, to dance, to do all those sports activities or whatever. So I actually met a lot of different types of people and interacted with them and those things have just come in very handy for me now.

Second track?

Bojan: Track two I would say, because it was the first one that came into my head when you said that to me, 'The Winner Takes It All' by ABBA.

Any particular story behind it? Since when, I mean, when did you hear ABBA for the first time? Why do you still like it? How come it doesn't get on your nerves?

Bojan: ABBA is one of those artists, where whenever I'm listening to them, I feel really good. Usually in the morning, if I'm making eggs for breakfast, I put ABBA on and the day is better. So there aren't many, there's really no specific reason, but ABBA is a really feel-good band for me plus 'Mamma Mia' the movie, right. I don't know, people can hate, but if you watch it, and you don't feel good, there I really don't know what's wrong with you.

To je moja muska.

Let's talk a little bit about success, being recognisable, fame, do you feel it? Of course you do. Can you go somewhere without being recognised?

Bojan: Yes, I can go places where I'm not recognised, like EXIT.⁷ And even today, they…

At home, I mean.

Bojan: No, it's not ultra extreme though, but it's extreme enough, that it actually happens very rarely, that I go out and I don't take pictures or sign autographs or something.

Yeah, I was surprised at the 50th anniversary of Val 202⁸, that especially older ladies wanted to take a picture with you.

Bojan: Thank you for busting that myth, right, that only young girls listen to us. Because slightly older girls like to listen to us too, and the male companions as well.

One last thing, the third track.

Bojan: 'I Bet You Look Good on the Dance Floor' by Arctic Monkeys. Because I hope can transfer this song, or rather the energy of this song onto the stage today.

To je moja muska.

Notes:

¹Videosex were a Yugoslav synth-pop band formed in Ljubljana in 1982. The band was one of the most important groups in the Yugoslav synth-pop scene.

²Gregor Strasbergar, aka Štras, is a Slovenian musician, singer, guitarist and author for the Slovenian band MRFY, formed in 2013.

³Val Fürst is a Slovenian actor and musician who went to high school together with Bojan. Bojan talks about him in his interview.

⁴The AGRFT is the Academy of Theatre, Radio, Film and Television in Ljubljana.

⁵Evrovizijska Melodija (EMA) is the selection programme for Slovenia's representative in the Eurovision Song Contest. Bojan hosted its 26th edition, held from 5 to 19 February 2022.

⁶During the EMA 2022 final, Bojan and special guest Maja Keuc paid tribute to the reigning ESC champions, Maneskin, by performing their winning song, 'Zitti e Buoni'. The video can be found here.

⁷This interview was recorded before Joker Out performed for the first time at EXIT, a festival held annually in Novi Sad, Serbia.

⁸On June 16, 2022, radio station Val 202 celebrated its 50th anniversary by broadcasting 'Dan 202', a concert of Slovenian folk music live from Križanke, in which Bojan Cvjetićanin also participated. The concert is available in full here.

[klauzar]

translation (it's not perfect, but I really tried 🥹):

MIO and JET: Hello!

JET: I am Jet Jatsadakorn, I'm playing Title.

MIO: Hello, I'm Mio Athens, playing Dome.

[Who are Title and Dome?]

JET: Title is aggressive person who doesn't respect anyone. In the last series I was cruel, but this time it's even more brutal. Not a good person, that's for sure. MIO: You can tell from your face.

JET: Hey! 😕 In the story, you mean?

MIO: I'm a kid who is diligent about studying, a good guy. I'm nothing like him. We're like black and white. Well, maybe little bit of grey. Yep.

Dome is straightforward, he says exactly what he thinks. He's sincere, caring and loves everybody.

We're classmates and dear friends. 😉

JET: Yeah... friends who love each other.

[How do you feel about your role?]

MIO: I was startled at first. Who is this Dome? I didn't know anything but his name.

Name like this, he's probably a grown up. But then I’ve read the script, I saw that he is a nice kid.

I'm happy to play this role. But at first I thought that I could've play Title as well. Just didn't manage to get it.

JET: He means the character.

MIO: Yeah, I didn't get that role.

JET: Why am I feeling hurt?

MIO: So I got the better character. I mean, with nicer personality.

JET: You're teasing me? I think, playing an angry, cruel character is a big challenge. Takes a lot of preparation.

MIO: We came together to the first audition for both Title and Dome roles. So we could switch.

We thought: who's going for what role? In the end, Jet get Title, and I got Dome.

JET: Yeah, cast could try and switch roles.

[How did you prepare?]

MIO: I did my homework, looked at other characters in other stories. Is there something similar that can be improved? Like, movie for teenagers that looks interesting.

I was trying to work out how to portray Dome in my own style.

JET: My situation is similar. I was looking for characters from other stories, researching for workshop. I talked to kru'Ning and everybody else.

Top (Jet's character in DFF). Yes, he's like Top, but meaner.

MIO: Grown up Top, right?

[What's the similarities and differences?]

JET: Not even close! Because...

MIO: Really? Okay.

JET: He's cruel, he acts without thinking, he's not afraid of anything. Ready to explode any second. I usually think before taking action.

MIO: It's easy to get him going, isn't it?

JET: You mean Title?

MIO: Yes.

As for me and Dome, there isn't much difference. Sometimes I directly say what I think, like Dome.  That's one of my traits.

I expanded it for Dome. Good person, but too nosy. I'm not a nosy person and don't involve myself in someone else's business.

Dome is curious and wants to know everything.

[How do you feel about filming scenes with your senior actors?]

JET: In my case, I had scenes with Bible. I was so happy, because Bible helped me a lot.

What emotion to show and things like that. We talked about things. He's very professional, so I learnt from older generation.

MIO: Right. As for me, I didn't really have emotional scenes with Bible.

But there was a scene with almost no dialogue. Before it he supported me by saying: "You can do it, "Nong!"

I saw P'Jes... can't say much, but he's definitely our senior with high professionalism. When he's jumping into the role...

JET: He's changing immediately.

MIO: Yeah.

JET: Gaining more knowledge and skills...

MIO: Meeting new people.

JET: Sure. Huh?

MIO: I said - meeting new people.

JET: Oh, yeah, right. What?

*confused laughter*

MIO: We've met our seniors face to face, but never worked together. That's better way to put it.

And then we finally got to work with P'Job, for example.

JET: P'Job is awesome!

MIO: I'm not just saying it for him to hear. He's really cute, really!

JET: We're not just saying it to make him happy. P'Job is really cute.

He's totally not standind behind the camera right now.

JOB: (Very honest.)

[The most intense scene in the series?]

MIO: When I secretly filmed him and View. 

JET:  That day I felt annoyed because Title is such a violent character, he's hurting his friends and this girl. So angry. It's just not right. How annoying.

My colleague actors were too scared to talk to me.

MIO: But that's acting, P'.

JET: Exactly.

MIO: That was my favourite part. Going all out.

And maybe also the last scene?

JET: Yes.

MIO: Going all out in the last scene. Please watch 4minutes every friday on channel one31.

JET: Or sultrier version on Viu. Both versions aired at the same time at 23:15.

See you soon, bye-bye!

[lurkingshan]

Kinou nani tabeta/What Did You Eat Yesterday?

You should know that I attempted to start this write up about half a dozen times before I managed to get a single word down. Every time I tried I just ended up staring at the wall. I don’t think I’ve been this emotionally stunned by a show since I Told Sunset About You, and I don’t say that lightly!

So, is this a good show? My god, YES. What an understatement. Let me tell you, as my MDL can attest, I’ve watched nearly 300 dramas. I’m sure I’ve watched even more Western shows since I had a 30 year head start on those. And I can say confidently that I’ve never seen anything quite like this gem.

Kinou nani tabeta, or What Did You Eat Yesterday?, is a drama about two middle aged gay men living their everyday lives, making and sharing food, reckoning with their identities and expectations, and figuring out how to be together in a long term relationship. That’s it, that’s the show. If that sounds boring to you, I gotta tell you: YOU ARE WRONG.

We meet Shiro and Kenji when they’re in their mid 40s and already a couple years into living together. Over the course of the show, we learn more about their relationship - how they got together, how they differ, where they struggle, where they shine, what they are still figuring out - and we see them work through it all, together. We see them at work, with friends, with their families, out in public, and in the privacy of their own home - we get a full and complete picture of their lives. And we are invited in to experience it with them and get up close and personal with their relationship in a way that feels both cozy and thrilling.

Now, I am not going to go into detail about everything that happens in this show, or attempt to provide deep analysis about its story, its characters, or the various cultures it depicts. This show was released in 2019, the manga began its run many years before that, and there are folks on this website - like @isaksbestpillow and @bengiyo - who have been at this a hell of a long time and thus have a broader context and lived experience from which to critically examine the show and its messages as they relate to Japanese familial values, life as a queer man from an older generation, and building community while living in a culture that is actively hostile to who you are. I implore you to go read their thoughts and learn from their wisdom. But what I will do is mention a couple (3… no 4, okay 5!) things that really made it stand out to me, a lifelong romance reader, avid media consumer, and drama enjoyer (I’m going to keep plot stuff vague because I hope if you’re reading this, you will be watching very soon!):

Let me repeat: this is a drama about a middle aged couple in a long term relationship, and the ongoing growth and deepening of their relationship is the main plot. Do I have to tell you how unique that is? The romance genre is rarely interested in what happens after the couple gets together, and even in other dramas featuring a couple in a LTR, the plot is usually about something else with the relationship in the background. And I’m fairly sure this is the only show of this nature in the entire bl genre (@absolutebl please fact check me if I’m wrong). In this show, the relationship is the point. It’s a rare look at what it actually takes to learn to deal with your baggage and share your life with someone, and I found it deeply moving.

My god these actors. With all due respect to the many fine actors in the bl industry, these two are on another level. We just never get to see seasoned actors of this caliber headlining ql dramas. If I have one tiny critique of this show, it’s that I found the moments when they let us listen in on the characters’ internal monologues mostly unnecessary - every emotional beat played out in their faces and body language. There’s this one scene I can’t stop thinking about, where the main pair are fighting, and one of them says something he doesn’t mean, and you see the regret on his face instantly, followed by a quick aborted movement as if to take it back, but his partner has already turned away and doesn’t see it. Just perfection. And the acting was so good in the finale (@waitmyturtles informed me my absolute fav moment was improvised for fucks sake) that it actually laid me out for like an hour, I was just sitting there in a crying daze.

The writing is so fucking smart. What’s absolutely brilliant about this show is that it’s structured like an episodic slice of life drama, but there is a deeper long term emotional arc at play and the writers forget nothing. Just like in life, in each episode something will happen, it won’t really get fully resolved, and the characters will move on. But on this show, it always comes back around, usually when your guard is down and they can inflict maximum damage by sucker punching you right in the solar plexus. I can hardly believe how many times this show managed to sneak attack me with emotional realness (official Shan cry count: 8/12 episodes caused me to burst into tears, sometimes more than once).

This show will take you through every possible destination on the spectrum of human emotion. I was so emotional while watching this show, in every sense. Crying both happy and sad tears. Swinging wildly between giddy delight, deep sadness, low key anger, and belly laughing. Sometimes the switch happens literally one scene to the next! And yet, there is an evenness to the tone and assuredness to the filmmaking that makes it all feel smooth. You never feel jerked around by the narrative. This is a credit to the writing, acting, and editing all coming together with perfect precision. The people who made this show are masters of their crafts.

OBVIOUSLY I MUST MENTION THE FOOD. Every episode of this show features at least one instance of a character making Japanese food that looks like the best thing you’ve never gotten the chance to eat. I do not recommended watching this without feeding yourself first, because it will have you salivating. And they don’t just show you the characters making the food (even narrating the recipes for you!), they always show you the characters actually eating and enjoying it. Some real foodies were involved in this production and as someone who loves to eat and absolutely was raised to view feeding people as a love language, I loved it.

So now that you are obviously dying to watch it, you must be wondering: where can I find this show? Let me point you to this post on @kinounaniresource, where the amazing Siiri has compiled all the video files and English subs you need. If you’re not familiar with how to use these, you’ll find instructions on her blog (if you get confused come ask me, please don’t bug her about it). I know sometimes shows being a little hard to access is a big deterrent to watching them, but please trust me that this is absolutely worth your time and effort, you will not regret it.

[agentoffangirling]

as a south asian why the hell did they make aladdin and jasmine south asian. I am so confused. Isn't jasmine's name literally persian

Okay okay so there's a bit of a story for this

And to quickly answer your last question, yup, Jasmine is one of the forms of Yas/Yasmine, our jasmine flowers

So back in the 90s, and still a little bit today, many production companies such as Disney didn't really see a difference with the Middle East and South Asia. When Disney decided they wanted to make an adaptation of "Aladdin" from "One Thousand and One Nights" (slight tidbit here, the story of Aladdin is not part of the original book. A French guy added it in and for some reason, set it in China? One Thousand is a Persian story, most of the stories in there are Persian, so this choice was. Interesting), it's not like they suddenly hired a bunch of Middle Eastern experts to consult on the film. No, they just created a desert-y landscape and lumped in Persian, Arab, and South Asian all in there

This is why the palace of Agrabah heavily resembles the Taj Mahal on a more Arabic-sounding name. Rajah, Jasmine's pet tiger, is an Indian word for king. Names such as Jafar and Jasmine are Persian in origin, while a lot of the clothing is Turkish-inspired. Villains such as the Captain and Jafar have a lot more stereotypically Middle Eastern features (hooked nose, bushy eyebrows, etc [and it's a convo for another day about how the "good" characters don't have these exaggerated features])

This melding of several cultures is what led up to the live-action "Aladdin" in 2019. The creators of that movie wanted to be more respectful of the region, and so this time, they did hire consultants and the like to help ensure it would be much less offensive ("where they cut off your ear if they don't like your face", nice going 1992)

And for the most part, they did that. Except for Jasmine

Jasmine is played by Naomi Scott, a half white half Indian woman, and look, it's pretty obvious she only got this part because she's well known. I would also like to point out that the casting calls for the characters in general once again lumped Southeast Asian and Middle Eastern people, however, almost all of the cast is Middle Eastern, and several of them are Persian (Sultan and Mara, notably)

So while everyone else is wearing clothes more indicative of the Middle East, you have miss Jasmine over here dressed in sarees and Indian-inspired clothing because costuming department went "oh! She's Indian now!" Agrabah is also a lot more similar to South Asia than the Middle East, further deepening this issue

To an outsider, "Aladdin" is Indian. To them, there's some Arab inspo, but they would mostly think it's set somewhere in India or South Asia. That's what the casting and costuming department in "Rise of Red" were working with, and so they just opted to go the whole South Asian angle. None of the actors who portray Jasmine, Aladdin, and their kid are Middle Eastern, they're all South Asian. The clothes they're wearing are very obviously from that region

And if I'm being completely honest, that's exactly what I expect from Disney. Why would they bother to do research for extremely minor characters with two lines? The problem here is what I've been talking about above, is that Hollywood is constantly thinking South Asians and Middle Easterners are interchangeable when we're not. If I see a MENA character on screen, more often than not the actor is South Asian. This is a continuous problem no one from these places wants to see happening, and yet it is because Hollywood doesn't actually care. The more it's done, the more they think it's okay and so they continue to blur the lines between several different cultures

So, on an ending note, Jasmine and Aladdin are Arab, if not Persian, and the idea that we are interchangable with South Asians harms both our cultures

[rgr-pop]

I have a friend in the midwest who's looking for a political org and i was wondering if you could you offer some advice. Are there qualities you would look for in an org that would make you feel like, okay, these are people I can work with?

Yea! I think there’s a ton of variation and it depends on what kinds of work they like to do or want to learn to do. I’d be happy to talk to them directly about their city.

As a materialist, I sort of think any group or org can be worth trying—doing so gives you a sense of the conditions and things to learn, and helps you follow where people are, which is the best way to learn about a new place you live. Always join stuff, you can always stop going if you don’t like it, never try to start something from scratch until you’ve been going to stuff for a long time (unless that something is a union in your workplace :p). Your friend should just trust their instincts but be open to learning from others, honor their time/energy/boundaries, and watch out for red flag orgs that don’t respect boundaries and don’t allow members to vocalize concerns or bring ideas to the table. I think that’s the key line.

For me personally, I am only interested in deep involvement with democratically organized groups that are not primarily concerned with providing service to people who are mostly non members. I definitely respect and work with these kinds of orgs all the time, but it’s not where my organizing energy goes — I am not a mutual aid person, but your friend might be! Examples of groups locally that I like and work with and would trust as a model are food not bombs style mutual aid as well as some urban farm style stuff (some of which can be soooo fashy but some i like here!), syringe access and harm reduction, eviction defense and other anti carceral rapid response. I do work with abortion funds and infinitely recommend anybody who can stomach it do the same (they can reach out to me for info on their local funds). I’ve been doing stuff around parent/childcare/repro and I would strongly advise to tread carefully there given the entrenchment of socially conservative religious actors. Just stay vigilant and research. Antifascist style orgs are also very interesting, frustrating, messy, frequently dangerous, occasionally surprisingly fascist, and presently useful—look into them but be thoughtful.

Questions to ask, many of which especially apply to mutual aid style groups: is there a leadership structure, and if so, how do leaders become leaders? Is there a board of directors? Who is on it? Do we have money, and if so, where does it come from, who decides how we use it, and what is its legal status? Who decides what work we do and how? Do I as a participant have a vote, the potential to run for leadership, or the right to propose work or organizational ideas? How does this group conceptualize the relationship between me, the community at large, the people we focus on, and people in other places? What other orgs do they seem to be connected to? Is anyone paid staff, and if so, what are their working conditions and how do they relate to the non paid staff? What does this org have on paper, online, etc.? What kind of safety or security norms do they have? Do they have a procedure for handling violence or just mundane conflict between participants? How are everyday decisions handled? None of my judgments relate to an assessment of the people themselves, per se—which is NOT to say I don’t make those judgements lol.

Many different responses to the above are valid depending on the work, and not having clear answers doesn’t mean that an org is bad, especially if it’s open to development. Having said that, again, I only organize with groups that give me a vote. And I think everyone should consider that guide.

My pitch for joining DSA if you have a chapter is that it has the best answers to the above compared to anyone else. It has the most things you can do as a beginner, the widest variety, and the best opportunities to grow yourself as an organizer, and it’s the biggest leftist organization in blah blah you’ve heard it. I strongly recommend not getting too involved with small communist leftist factionalist orgs (I won’t name them here), but there are a million exceptions, especially in cities like Chicago and Minneapolis with long deep weird histories. And no need to hate on them, either. If some communist league seems to be really doing something and not uhhh openly trafficking people or something lol, go off. (Where I live this is the case on campus!) The other exception is the IWW. It’s always fine to join the IWW, especially for labor, and there really are a handful of cities where the IWW is effective and the place to do rank and file labor work (and mostly those are in the midwest!) In many more cases the IWW is a sad little thing but it’s our duty to be nice to them.

In conclusion “make you feel like you wanna work with them” is complicated—I’m a hater, and do not enjoy the company of most of these people, or in fact even the masses in general. You have to find your own balance, which requires pushing yourself out of your comfort zone for a little while, and see how the org reacts. But ultimately, you don’t need to want to work with the people—you need an org that is productive and moves by creating conditions for people to work together regardless of whether they like each other. Fundamental premise of socialism and communism specifically, and it’s what sets us apart from tendencies on the right and common versions of certain tendencies on the left whomst I won’t name. My #1 advice is always to avoid any group whose mission is based on affinity and friendship between its members. (But if you make friends with them, go off)

[neechees]

about the whole preoccupation w incest thing amongst white people on the internet i haven't really noticed it? i am white and find it intriguing (i was incestually abused as a child and so i find it interesting how it develops in families, how people respond to it, etc (it's kind of been part of my healing process)) but i don't really see anyone being obsessed w it? maybe pointing out themes of it in media but that's kinda it? some of my mutuals, idk if they're white, but they have also been abused the same way i have and find discussing it or finding media with incest in it to be a part of exposure therapy/dealing with the trauma. id love to hear your thoughts on it :)

I've talked about this a few times in the past, but I'm posting again to make my views & boundaries known that 1. Dni if you're a "pr0shipper" & enjoy shipping incest, I do not want you here, 2. Fiction does not exist in a vacuum. Im going with the assumption that anon is not a proshitter & they're asking this in good faith. Just putting a readmore because this got long and also for anyone who is triggered by this topic

The conversation I think is surrounding proshitters ("shippers"), but I think the conversation also goes deeper into things like "incest" & "step family" being popular porn site searches that very often feature white actors, as well as those things showing up in film, book, and TV, but in romantisize/sexualized/downplayed ways written by and featuring, again, white people. So I believe generally the "obsession" part means White people who are overly preoccupied with seeing incest quite often, especially and specifically in sexualized, fetishized, and/or romantisized ways. Because personally (& I believe other nonwhite people can attest to this as well, and that's what the other posts mean to say) a lot of the people who have this overkeen interest in incest are White.

Like it's not talking about people wanting to have nuanced depictions of incest, why it's bad, how that affects people & can be extremely traumatizing, and then approaching that topic respectfully (because it should be, that's a terrible thing and showing respect for victims of it & ensuring its not, accidentally or not, endorsed or shown as "okay" or normalizing it, is important. Execution as well as intent are important & should be done with tact.) The people who are mentioned as being "obsessed with incest" as these pr0shippers who find incest "sexy", want to see it, actively search it out where it is both romantisized/sexualized/fetishized, and will apply it in fanon interpretations even when it doesn't exist in canon or this interpretation wouldn't/doesn't make sense anyway, specifically because they enjoy seeing it. They find it titillating. Quite a few of the popular users on this site who have famously defended incest (and/or pedophilia) both in real life AND as proshitters have been... White. And racist.

I think there IS a correlation between White people, proshitters (who are usually people who defend romantisized depictions of things like incest), and liking incest, because I very often seen proshitters be racist (and other types of bigoted tbh), and ALSO defend things like racist depictions of nonwhite characters, things like slavery AU's featuring Black characters, or colonizer AU's, and the like. It's a common joke (not so much of a joke tho tbh) that the more White people that exist prominently in a fandom, then the less fun it is, specifically because of racism that will then exist in that fandom. So there's this huge overlap of White fans being racist but ALSO there being a lot of fans who enjoy seeing incest in their fave medias, because of the proshitters, who do both. There was also that whole thing where a bunch of popular white users on here (many of whom ALSO defended incest) defended sexual raceplay & then called any nonwhite person (ESPECIALLY BLACK USERS) "homophobic" or "transphobic" for rightfully and correctly calling this racist.

Lots of White people like to do this thing where, if they are marginalized in some way, then they'll weaponize that marginalization against anyone who criticizes them for something (most often racism), even if their marginalized identity has nothing to do with the topic or was brought up. White women who happened to be gay called me "homophobic" and "misogynist" (even though I'm a bi woman but you know) because I talked about the nazi associations & racist inclinations of cottage core. I saw multiple White lotr fans call a specific artist "homophobic" because that artist asked that their art not be tagged as an incest ship, and that incest ship is very popular (and their art piece was depicting them as just family), but this incest ship isn't even canon, and the artist wasn't actually homophobic or against gay relationships in general. So they essentially just called this artist "homophobic" for no reason. Because they didn't want their art piece of two family members to be incorrectly interpreted as incestuous. Im even reluctant to draw fan art of some of my favorite characters who are family members, because I dont want people who ship incest to interact with it or tag it as that, and the fact that so many artists even have to ask people NOT to do this is insane.

Like it's one thing if someone analyzes media with it or might find comfort in certain characters in books or TV etc because they feel seen in their trauma, and yet can acknowledge that this isn't for everybody and not everyone processes their trauma this way, and that seeing it (incest in media) can make trauma WORSE for many people, AND that not all representations are made equally, and none of those are free from being available to criticism in approach of that representation anyway. But very often there's White fans (many who aren't even incest victims themselves, so they don't have the "I'm coping" excuse) that are offended that other people don't like seeing incest at ALL, that people will (understandably) not want to interact with them if they're a pr*shipper, and hate being reminded that treating incest like its a fun little interest that shouldn't be handled with care just because it's being featured in a fictional situation (or even sometimes when it's NOT) is pretty fucked up and even disrespectful & insensitive to incest survivors, and then chalk up any criticism of the amount of sexualized/romanticized incest as "censorship" even though that's not what's happening, and again, very often self victimize themselves and often are also racist.

[alpaca-clouds]

How Isaactor became my OTP

I am one fanfic away from having more stories on Isaactor than Trephacard. And I think that would be a good time to talk about how Hector and Isaac became one OTP over basically everyone else.

Okay, technically there are still a lot more Trephacard stories, because I have several stories with just two of the three characters in them.

Still, I by now do like Isaactor more by now. Which is kinda ironic, because while Trephacard was something I started shipping, as soon as I saw the show (it just is a very obvious ship), I was like: "Sure, I can see Isaactor, but I do not have strong feelings about it."

I knew though from the very beginning of writing The lesser Evil, that it would end up with Striga and Morana returning to Styria. And from that came the idea that Striga could try to get the two forgemasters to hook up. Which lead to Five Games of Chess.

But the more I was writing about them, the more interesting did the dynamic become.

What makes them so interesting to me is that they are morally complex. Like, sure, most of the cast in Castlevania has more than enough trauma (which makes for delicious hurt/comfort), but they are also morally somewhat simple.

But then we have those two, who participated in what was meant to be an absolute genocide. Kill all the humans, because for differing reasons the two of them have come to hate humanity. Something that in Isaac's case had like really good reasons. Like, duh, the man survived slavery. As a child non the less. Yes, he has all the reasons to be angry at the world.

Still, Hector was the character who I identified with most. Because he is autistic and a survivor of parental abuse. So, yes. I can very much identify with his anger at the world.

None of that however makes genocide in any way or form justified. (Duh.) And that is, what makes the two so interesting. Because this realization is something they are going to have to deal with sooner or later. That they did something unspeakably bad.

And among that realization there really is only one other person who can understand them: The respective other. Because they both were part of the genocide. They both served Dracula. In a way for different reasons - but still those reasons were somewhat similar. And only the other person really will ever understand.

And yes, of course it should be mentioned that everything else also makes them such interesting characters.

Isaac easily is the best written character in all of Castlevania, where the input by Adetokumboh M'Cormack (the voice actor) really, really shows. Especially as the way the show deals with Isaac's religious conflict is so well depicted. Something that a ton of shows just struggle with - or do not show at all. I mean, how many well written Muslim characters are there in western media? And I mean, let's face it. Most western media does not even know that Sufism is a faith that exists.

Meanwhile I find Hector interesting, because he very much gets pushed into a role that normally female characters will be shown in, given he literally gets sexually assaulted within the show. I mean, for most of seasons 3 and 4 he is very much a damsel in distress waiting to be rescued. Something we usually do not see with male characters.

I will also remain of the opinion: Was Isaac white, the two of them would be the most popular ship of the show. Because they just have this rivals to enemies to lovers dynamic that fandom normally goes of to salivate over.

For myself, of course, there is also just the aspect, that Hector does have quite a few canonical hints that he is still very much kinky. Which makes for fun kinky sex scenes. ;)

But in general I just think the two of them are the most interesting characters and the most interesting dynamic in the show. And I just wished more people would write and create art for them, :(

[sizzlinbaconpeach]

The text connecting Chris and Jill is “戦友” or “kanyuu” which translates to “commrade in arms; war buddy”.?

in the Revelation's bio for Chris, they called him Jill's Brother-in-arms.?

So they don't have feelings for each other?

https://www.tumblr.com/chirikalovesjill/34500920927/where-did-this-picture-come-from-please-anyone

Hello Anon! I want to start off by saying that it's okay if you don't ship Chris and Jill romantically - not everyone does. I mentioned in a previous post how I can certainly see how others would only view their relationship as platonic or coworkers. Unfortunately, the link in your question does not work so I'm sorry I can't respond to that in particular. And I am not trying to sow any discontent or attacking, I'm merely responding and enjoying my preferred ship. I hope you can understand. If we can all stay positive and respectful that would be greatly appreciated. ^_^ Chris and Jill have been fighting BOW's since the very first game. Actual canon is that they survived through the whole mansion together. They've always protected each other. So 'comrade in arms', 'war buddy, 'brother-in-arms', 'partner', 'bestest friend', 'kindred spirits', 'love of my life' are all titles they would/could use to address each other.

Also, in RE1 original, Chris and Jill were written to be romantically interested in each other. In a recent interview, the live-action actor for RE1 Chris stated that he wanted to remain as respectful as possible to Jill's actress as she was much younger than him and he knew they were supposed to be romantically linked in the story. Source: ROE Plays RESIDENT EVIL 1 w/ Original Chris Redfield (Charlie Kraslavsky)

And this cute song that plays when they are reunited: Long Lost Friend Long Lost Friend Revisited - I love how bittersweet this is, very fitting In my mind, there is definitely some romantic sweetness to this song. But Capcom likes to keep them ambiguous or seems to want to retcon them, so I don't know. Ship them or don't. Doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. I just like how mature their relationship seems - built on lasting trust and respect. Even in Death Island there were ambiguous hints of something more between them. Like, Chris staring at a smiling Jill, backlit by a beautiful setting sun, seems kind of romantic to me. ... Only to fist bump her seconds later. Guess he wanted to keep it professional and clean in front of his sister XD

Before I got into Resident Evil (Biohazard), I never really knew about any 'ships'. I had vague memories of RE2 (Cleon bby) and RE5 (my unknowing teenage self actually shipped Sheva and Chris!), but it wasn't until I actually replayed the games as an adult and explored more of the extended lore that I became a Valenfield fan (and unexpectedly, less of a Cleon shipper). And what cemented it for me even more was the supplemental RE5 guide translations!

I highly recommend any Valenfield shipper to read it here. (scroll down a little more than half way on the page to find the STORY section. It's after the different colored text timeline.)

Some quotes from this official guide book:

... Referred to as "the BSAA's ace", Chris has a brilliant track record preventing many bioterror attacks, but Chris' chest is filled with an indescribable emptiness. Many comrades have been sacrificed to repair the errors of fools. Even if the world's saved, these friends will never return. He had lost his irreplaceable former partner. ...

... Chris has nothing against having a female partner. In fact, the partner he regarded as irreplaceable was a female too. She's the perfect person whom Chris can totally trust and rely on, someone whom he believes is what he needed to complete any mission. Chris felt their teamwork was like an eagle able to escape from biohazardous danger. ...

... Chris is staring intently at a statue of a sleeping beauty. He's like a person looking at his lover through a mirror, where the other side of the mirror's a different dimension. ... The image displayed on the PDA screen issued by the BSAA isn't very good quality. The faint face is illuminated by a weak light, ... Despite that, Chris is able to recognise the person. He's been chasing this lead all the while, just so he can repair the missing piece of his heart. This can't be a mistake, nor an illusion. This is a fact. ... It's Jill, his old partner who sacrificed herself and jumped off a cliff in order to save Chris. Due to Jill's absence ever since, the BSAA have removed her from duty. But two years later, there's finally a sign that shows she may be alive after all, and this sign's appearing right in front of her partner who refuses to believe she's dead. The reason why Chris, who was from BSAA North American branch, was hoping to join this operation within Kijuju, was because he'd obtained some sort of lead leaked by Irving on the black market while he was looking for Jill. ...

... Jill, with her antibodies, has been administered P30--- Gifted with superhuman abilities, she's been given a powerful drug that controls her mind too. This evil drug is continuously injected into her body, torturing her to no end. Just as Wesker intended, Jill's receiving hell-like suffering. "I'm begging you, kill me!" ... Wesker's instruction to Jill before he leaves, which is to kill Chris who has finally come for her, plays mercilessly in her mind like an echo. The painful, unbearable order's destroying Jill mentally, and she's begging with her mind for her old partner, Chris, to end her suffering. "Don't worry about me! If this goes on I'll only end up killing both of you! Shoot me, please!" Despite that, Chris refuses to give up. Chris screams like a beast at the brainwashed Jill. He promises that even if it means giving up his life, he's going to free his partner with whom he has finally reunited, from her curse.

But again, I believe Capcom will keep their relationship more ambiguous and open to interpretation - I think they want to keep all potential shippers content. And they certainly seem to be moving towards a more 'just a good friend/co-worker' angle than before.

Which, in my opinion, cheapens the over arcing story (RE1 - 5) and relationship - but that's for another post to ramble about, I suppose.

No hard feelings if you're not a Valenfield shipper. They have a good friendship and I can totally understand if people only see them as that and nothing more.

[findroleplay]

୨୧

hi guys! I'm 20 years old looking for a long-term 18+ roleplay partner and friend! :) the kind of rp i'm interested in is doubling. i will play a person of your choice against your oc/self insert, and you will do the same for me. i'm sorry to say that i'm not interested in rping ships so please dni if that's what you're seeking :) i am a literate writer, i write in paragraphs.

who i will rp: k-pop idols, actors, rockstars, musicians, celebrities, movie characters, video game characters, etc. i will be happy to rp anyone for you :) even if I don't know them well, i will research them for you if i need to, or you can tell me all about them and how they act! the person i want you to rp for me is a k-pop idol, so please keep that in mind :)

my favorite plots: i'm a lover of both soft themes and dark ones, comfort, sfw agere, best friends to lovers, tooth-rotting fluff, angst, yandere, dead dove. these are just a few of the things i like. smut is okay just as long as it doesn't take over the whole story, like where the plot revolves around only that D: i don't have many limits, but if we are rping real people, it is of course a priority for me that we are respectful to them as real people :)

where: here on tumblr

dni: if you only care about your own rp... i had one person i rped with reply to my story with chat gbt... D: when i rp with someone i care about their characters and plot just as much as i do mine and i invest a lot of energy into it because i love doing it :) i want to have someone who feels the same way and can match that energy.

if this sounds compatible with you, please comment and i will be happy to reach out to you!

-

[lullabyalikpoptarot]

Ateez Dynamics (Mingi's Perspective)

Okay, continuing on with their dynamics. We are now at Mingi's perspective. The members seem to be really cool with him, so let's see what he has to share.

Hongjoong (The Partners/7 of Cups) It does seem they are close. I just usually see the Partners card as partners in crime mentality. They both have strong beliefs of putting their partnerships first, so both are very loyal people and very loyal to each other. There is a respect they both have for one another. They may share their dreams and ideas together. Both of them seem to have strong imaginations and have lots of ideas floating around in their heads, so they both may share these things together.

Seonghwa (The Protector/Judgment) They may protect one another from judgment or criticism. It seems they may help each other from making mistakes or help each other make better decisions. I believe these two also have lots of respect from another. There could be this need to get praise from another as well. I do feel they help one another grow on a personal level. I do see these two respecting each other's space and boundaries as well.

Yunho (The Initiator/3 of Wands) Not surprised to see the initiator card for Yunho. That card gives me Aries energy and he is one. He is always up for a challenge or the first to do something. He leads the charge. This gives me he may inspire Mingi to take action on things when he may feel lazy or hesitant to do something. He sees Yunho as someone who goes after something even if it may be a long, strenuous journey. He is always pushing ahead. I see this go getter mentality is something maybe Mingi inspires to have.

Yeosang (The Experimenter/8 of Wands) These two together are probably all over the place, lots of energy here. These two may try a lot of new things together. Yeosang may be the one he can experiment and try fun new things with. This dynamic just seems like chaos and craziness, but not in a bad way. They seem to have lots of fun together, and lots of adventures.

San (The Fighters/The Magician) Well, this one is weird. These two may not get along too well at times. They may clash from time to time. There seems to be a lot of communication with the two, so that could lead to bickering when you talk a lot with someone. There is like a confidence they both have and that may be why they clash at times. These two are very skilled and talented at what they do, which may lead to clashing between them. This was weird, a bit hard to decipher this one.

Wooyoung (The Future/9 of Wands) He may see Wooyoung as someone very highly focused on the future, always looking ahead to it. It is like he lives today for the future. He seems to see him as having strong boundaries and having his guard up. I am not really sure he is that close to him right now. Mingi may also be a bit weary and suspicious of him, or maybe Wooyoung is as well. There is this kind of wall he has up, so it makes it hard to get close to him. It is like they may walk around eggshells around each other.

Jongho (The Actor/The Tower) He sees Jongho as someone who can play an act very well. He is very good at playing a part. He knows how to act in different situations. This can be a good and bad thing, The good thing is he can handle any situation with grace, but it can also be manipulative as well. So, with this tower card it is giving me that he may create chaotic situations and act like he did nothing wrong to create it. This is also giving me there may be some sort of breakdown or disfunction in their dynamics at the moment. I don't know if he created some drama in Mingi's life and now he is pretending he didn't. Or there was some sort of crazy situation or change that happened to both of them and he saw how calm he was about it, and has respect for that. I feel like this wasn't clear, there are many different scenarios that can be at play here.

Okay, once again another interesting read. I definitely continue to enjoy reading for them. I also enjoy how easy he was to read, this took probably less than 20 minutes to do lol I am definitely interested in Wooyoung's perspective next weekend, because besides San, seems most members don't have a favorable view of him from my readings.