#like not every Jew is a Zionist

[disco-cola]

someone i knew from former political circles messaged me today about my story which was a meme about how you can’t be sane when you (still) support Israel. He’s like „do you even know what you’re saying with this“ I’m like „that I don’t support Israel as stated?“ he’s like Israel has a right to exist!!! I’m like okay it didn’t say anywhere here that it doesn’t have the right to exist however there’s several countries in the world that because of the way it was founded and handled since still don’t recognize it as a state and also there’s religious Jews that don’t even recognize it because they say it’s against the tora. Like it’s a fact not everybody in the world recognizes it and it’s not an official state everywhere. I said I don’t support racism apartheid genocide and the fascist 2-class-system that Israel has which deprives Palestinians of rights and even their pure freedom. They are denying peoples existence and land. And while I said i am not speaking out against the states right to exist (bc I also live in a country that recognizes it as a state officially whereas it does not recognize Palestine at all) there is definitely room for criticizing and I do not believe the way Israel is existing and acting right now is the right way. He said it’s Jewish peoples land and they have to be safe - ummm it’s not „their“ land. There was a land there before and they took it and he said yes but it’s not their fault it’s Great Britain’s fault bc they made promises to both sides they couldn’t keep. Israel’s right to exist shouldn’t be based around the argument „they have to have a place where they are safe“ bc they should be safe anywhere in the world, it doesn’t justify the existence of what is now a military apartheid state that puts the rights of Jewish people *above* anyone else’s. I am very disappointed that people I used to know who claimed to be so politically correct and were always promoting „never again“ so loudly are actually on the wrong side of this. Saying „the way Israel was formed wasn’t that good“ is the understatement of the century. Never again should mean never again for anyone. Zionism is a dangerous nationalist ideology which doesn’t go hand in hand with judaism itself i don’t understand why so many people don’t get it. They really be saying well yeah I don’t think it’s good what they are doing in Gaza right now but they still have a right to exist because otherwise Jewish people have no land and aren’t safe and that’s why I still support Israel. He legit said that’s why he supports Israel in the end anyway. Make it make sense.

[stolen-stardust]

why do people want a cookie for not harassing random jews living their lives. “the people i racially profiled were nice to me, peace is possible ✊” is a fucking INSANE take

[gingerswagfreckles]

Things "The Zionist Lobby" (Evil Jews Who Control The World) have been accused of this week for literally no fucking reason:

-Starting and perpetuating the race riots in Britian

-Trying to steal the election in Venezuela

-Starting the rumor that the Olympic boxer Imane Khelif is trans

When will people wake the fuck up and realize people are using the word "Zionist" to mean Jews and going right back to blaming us for Literally Every Bad Or Controversial Thing On The Entire Planet.

[bitegore]

Zionists want you to conflate Judaism and Zionism. Zionists want you to believe that Judaism cannot exist without Zionism and that all Jews are Zionists. Zionism would have Jews believe that a Jewish state is the only way that they can be safe from antisemitism and will point to any instance of antisemitism as proof that Zionism is the solution- so Zionism wants gentiles to be antisemitic in their support of Palestine. They want you to conflate all Jews with Zionism and the state of Israel, and they want you to treat all Jews regardless of political affiliation as the face of Israel. Antizionist Jews exist, and incidences of antisemitism ostensibly acting against Zionism will not help dismantle the forces propping Zionism up.

Don't do their work for them.

[kelluinox]

I "love" how leftists are saying "but this time, this time for sure jews are evil! This time for sure!" And think they're any different from every single other group that has tried to exterminate us over the course of history

[infiniteglitterfall]

pretty please, my fellow progressives

Could we please all keep in mind that the concept of "The Jews In General, or A Specific Type Of Jew, Controls Education, Government, Media, and/or Banking", is a longstanding antisemitic trope?

And most of all, that it is false??

No, a marginalized group does not also control education, the government, the media, and/or banking?

No, Jews do not secretly control these things and just pretend to be marginalized? No, Jews have not secretly been accumulating power since the Holocaust, granted by too-generous gentiles, out of pity?

No, it isn't better if you just mean a specific subgroup or kind of Jews. It's still specifically Jews.

It's like when people who hate trans/queer people are fine with rich white cis gay men. So they think it's not bigoted to blame "people with blue hair and pronouns" for the downfall of society.

We all know this means, "I only see some of you as human like me. You have to speak and act a certain way to count. Everyone in your group has to pass a test to get into the Good group."

Doesn't work.

Sure, it gives them plausible deniability to the people who matter to them. But everyone else can see exactly how they feel.

We've all known for years that it's bad to think of a marginalized group as having some "good ones." Rein it the heck in, please.

Because YES, all of those examples are ones I've seen implied, or stated outright, over and over, within the progressive community. This month alone.

[some-stars]

sure do love reading posts about how zionism is a special, different kind of colonization that makes it actually fine and okay :)

like there were a LOT of antizionist jews in the early 20th century. there are a lot of us now. and it’s not because we just don’t Understand the Complexities of the israeli political situation. it’s because all forms of zionism, from their inception and to this day, have all always been morally wrong. israel was founded with a massive act of ethnic cleansing and murder because there is no other possible way to move large amounts of people into a place where other people already live that ensures the people arriving have all the political power. there was never a Good israel and there was never a Good zionism. it was rotten from its inception and it cannot be fixed or repaired or cleansed of the blood it demands.

you can dress up your explanations in lots of long paragraphs but the actual definition of all zionism is simply “we get to force everyone who was already living in this place to leave or be subservient to us or simply be killed.” there is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time.

[brick-van-dyke]

If there's one thing I've respectively noticed from Zionists and defenders of Israeli war crimes, it's that every source, argument and potential avenue to explore each explanation is riddled with cherry picking, moving the goalposts and mental gymnastics to explain why their conclusions, which typically are barely even related to the sources they use, somehow overshadow literal reality and what we see with our own eyes.

While scrolling, one example I came across was the repetitive misrepresentation of BLM, antifa and quotes from Martin Luther King Jr, as well as statistics, scholarly journal articles and government website information. These are all good sources, yet every single time they're mangled completely until the only possible "interpretation" of any of them is "well Israel is right to defend itself after shorting rockets beforehand because the retaliation was brutal and all Arabs are bad by default therefore". As if any of these sources are even about individual exceptions of Israel versus hatred towards Arabs.

I think what I find most absurd, as someone in the middle of their own studies, is how every bit of critical thinking and logic goes out the window as they do every single thing possible to do what professors worldwide say NOT to do when evaluating sources. It's like watching a race to see who can tangle and misconstrue scientific information to fit their world view the fastest. Then said people say "um actually I studied at university before so it's actually not wrong that I'm doing this exact this everyone is warned not to do because I have a permit". Ignorance I can forgive, but willful and arrogant manipulation? That's another thing entirely.

[lettersfromthelevant]

I did not just see a self-hating jew call zionism "manifest destiny" i did nooooooot

someone made a cutesy photo that literally called for the death of israel, like verbatim, it said "I need the death of israel" and this was someone's response (right after saying, "yikes that is my peoples' homeland.") please, diaspora jews, grow a spine and attach it to your brain stem. in what fucking world are jews living in our literal ancestral homeland in any way equatable to manifest destiny? fuck you, spineless schande

[smile-files]

i think the main issue in arguing with zionists is that, well, they believe in zionism! if israel did deserve to exist, then the genocide and injustice in palestine could be argued for (not like it should be, but it certainly could) -- and zionists believe israel deserves to exist.

i, unfortunately, have a large amount of experience interacting (personally) with zionism and zionists. most of those i've talked to feel for the palestinians, and the violence they are facing, but they fail to realize (or they staunchly deny) the very, very active part israel and the IDF have had in that -- and how it's representative of what the nation has always done.

at the same time, they focus more on israeli hostages than palestinian ones -- and i know, of course, that these zionist jews i've interacted with are either israeli or have loved ones in israel, and so have a very personal stake in the safety of israeli hostages (which may very well be friends or family members), but i find it strange how much emphasis they put on hamas' cruelty in taking hostages while the IDF is doing the same thing (in essence; the exact details of who's doing it worse are important to note, but not relevant right now, because folks should realize that their side is being at least as cruel as the enemy's).

recently i was drawn into an argument with an israeli zionist (who, unfortunately, is very close to the action and tragedy by being israeli), and she was incredibly offended by my anti-zionism and my opposition to israel's abject cruelty to palestinian citizens, as it seemed (to her) like i was bypassing the cruelty hamas has enacted on israeli citizens -- which is very telling. i've noticed that we as jews have the tendency, whatever the situation may be, of focusing more on our pain than the pain of others, even if we are the ones hurting them. that person has every reason to be scared and hurt, and i'd be lying if i said her response wasn't at least somewhat sympathetic, but her pain in this horrible, violent conflict does not invalidate the pain on the other side. jews, throughout this recent crisis, have consistently not talked in depth about the constant losses in palestine -- am i suddenly being callous by focusing on those losses, and not our own? (YOUR PAIN AND THEIRS AREN'T MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE, YOU DOLT! sorry...)

because it all comes down to believing in israel! my mom has always told me about how beautiful it is there, about her time living on a kibbutz... and sure, it might be nice. i can't argue with that. but why is it that our nationalism for israel is so strong, so virulent? i have not seen patriots as loyal for any other country. and when you criticize israel, israelis feel like you're criticizing their entire existence -- and many non-israeli jews do, as well. because zionism has been built so deep into the modern religion! it's made to be a necessary piece! belief in it is the default!

and, from the inside looking in, i can't be surprised that many jews take anti-zionism as being antisemitic -- because, to them, israel and zionism stand as the pinnacle of safety and support for the jewish people. it is impossible to argue with them about anything above that base layer, as the base layer itself serves as a foundation: so long as a jew thinks that israel is right, deserved, and necessary, no proof will sway them into hating israel. it's just impossible, and that's very frustrating.

for me in particular, i find it very frustrating, as this single idea has turned so many people i know to support a genocidal entity. they believe in and support israel, so they stand with it now -- even if they condemn its current actions, they neglect how those actions are just an extension of its inherent existence -- whether they think israel's doing the right thing or wrong thing right now, they don't really care at the end of the day, because israel, to them, is necessary in keeping the jewish people alive. they stand with it, thinking that jews can only stand at all if they do.

but a genocidal crutch is no crutch at all: it only breaks us more. zionist jews make me so mad, and the worst part is that i could never express that to them in a way they'll understand.

[wellthatswhatithought]

idk I just think the antizionist/pro-palestine mvmt would have much more success if some of you stopped saying such headass shit all the time

[squidgirlautism]

scrolling through blogs on here like are you a misinformed wacko or lying about being jewish

[blastlight]

every so often i think about how if i ever make a post or something that blows up, i'll immediately be harassed en masse by people claiming i'm a zionist

[monachopism]

being jewish with zero affiliation to israel and rather a generational line of activists for palestine is a hard line to walk and sometimes i wish i could just fall off

[adelle-ein]

idk man i've reblogged and said things about how certain people on this site and the bird one are putin defenders, syrian/ukranian genocide deniers, outright white supremacists, avowed antisemites, etc. pointed out the ways in which the current moment is being happily hijacked by white supremacists with very strong and obvious agendas. and some of you guys have reblogged and liked those posts, and then immediately gone on to continue reblogging violently antisemitic things from the very same people. so i don't think it's sinking in tbh

(and like, the posts in question are never anything useful or links to articles or anything remotely "worth" platforming genocide deniers, just the usual "DON'T SCROLL PAST THIS, POSTING IS ACTIVISM" shit)

[snapplewapple]

Hope I'm not swinging a bat at a hornets nest for this but it's been a thought in my mind ever since Oct 7. But I have to wonder what it's like being in the mind of an antisemite right now having basically all of your biases and bigoted stances confirmed right in front of your eyes? Like imagine that you're a person who thinks jews control the media and pull at the strings of the entire world to get what they want. And then here's israel... Kind of doing exactly that. Killing journalists and massacring a vulnerable nation in front of everyone's eyes and CNN and wikipedia and bbc all saying that no actually it's those dirty arabs fault all along... It's scary! It's so fucking scary and I guess I just sit here and wonder about the after, when all this is over and Palestine is free, how many people are we going to lose to antisemitism and how long are we going to spend fixing the damage of THAT. It just never fucking ends