#like it’s subtextual but if you know what ptsd is and you watch the show you WILL be able to tell that lapis has ptsd

[threeicedcreams]

Me when I pick up on basic character traits and have an understanding of character motivations and actions because I watched a show and paid attention to it

[bthump]

I've notice that Miura treats male rape recovery better than female recovery. I mean look at Casca. But I've also noticed that the male victims are always underage and never adults. But with girls majority of the time they are adults. Do you have a post that goes in depth with this subject?

Yeah I’ve definitely noticed that this is a trend, though I don’t think I’ve ever talked about it in depth so I don’t really have anything to link, but thanks for asking.

I’m gonna put this under a cut just bc it’s kind of long and meandering lol

In general I think it’s mainly just because Miura is a man and his presumed audience is mostly adult men, and rape only has the effect he’s going for when the audience is distanced from it. Children and women as victims are kind of like… expected and unfortunately more easily othered by men. Even when Guts is raped as a kid the reader is meant to feel sympathy, but not necessarily empathy. There’s no implicit threat to the reader, no sense of ‘this could happen to you,’ that women get every time we watch something with sexual violence.

In Berserk sexual violence against women is often used as like, tone-setting. It’s treated as a given that women are constantly under threat of sexual violence. Like eg we know the apostles are going to rape Casca as soon as they notice she’s a woman, because that’s what happens to women in Berserk. The possibility of any of the male Hawks getting gangraped by monsters is never suggested, and never crosses the typical reader’s mind. Wyald, trolls, all of Casca’s random enemy soldier assailants, the grotesque sexual violence in every shot of the torture chamber we get in the Conviction arc, even the damn rape horse lol, etc etc, women are the victims by default. The threat to men is death, the threat to women is rape.

Even when Guts is being held down by monsters while Femto rapes Casca, there’s no sexual threat to him. It might be purposefully reminiscent of his rape trauma, if I’m being generous to Miura, but if so it’s only extremely implicit. Guts never even shows a hint of fear, only rage.

There are some exceptions to this trend though, to be fair. Griffith is kind of an exception in that he faces an explicit rape threat as an adult, and it‘s actually a pretty big focal point of the story - it contributes most of the tension the Battle of Doldrey has, and Gennon being creepy and trying to capture Griffith as a sex slave instead of kill him is the plot point that wins Griffith the war lol. But then, this is also a unique circumstance - he’s not being threatened just because he exists like the women tend to be, he’s being threatened because he has a past history with this particular rapist.

And then when he is presumably actually raped as an adult that gets left in subtext, with the torturer’s creepy insinuations, so yk, he still contributes to this trend of Berserk’s textual rape victims only being women and children. And like, it’s rare that characters are assaulted in subtext instead of text in Berserk, Rosine’s the only other potential example I can think of, so this is kind of notable lol.

The other sort of exception imo is Slan kissing Guts, but again it fits with an audience of men in mind, because beautiful women sexually assaulting men is not really treated as threatening in most media aimed at men lol, it’s treated as titilating. In Berserk Guts is at least clearly afraid rather than turned on, but yeah it’s still pretty par for the course that when the adult male protagonist is sexually assaulted it’s by a sexy evil woman, and Guts brushes it off after the fact. This isn’t shown to be particularly traumatic.

When it comes to recovery, I’m kind of torn on this actually lol. I mean Guts and Griffith definitely get realistically portrayed trauma from their instances of childhood sexual abuse. Guts gets a ptsd flashback and more subtextually a pile of issues that contribute to his need to fight, Griffith washes himself with extremely closed-in body language, self harms, asks someone if he’s dirty, and subtextually it contributes to his self-loathing and view of sex as something he can trade. 

But to be really fair I think you can argue that Casca also got a realistic traumatized reaction to her attempted rape by the nobleman that informs her character throughout the Golden Age as well. Buuuuut if this is the case lol it’s also more subtle than the other two, enough so that I’m hesitant to give Miura credit for it lol.I’m thinking about how Casca latches onto saviours, first Griffith, then Guts, to the detriment of her own independent identity. But I mean, idek if Miura considers that a flaw potentially rooted in trauma, or just the natural state of a woman to define herself around men lol.

But still, either way Casca’s reactions to every other instance of rape and attempted rape she experiences are extremely disappointing and unbelievable imo. I mean after the Eclipse she goes insane and it’s basically used as a way to remove her character from the story for 20 years. And she doesn’t even get reactions after being sexually assaulted by Wyald or nearly raped by soldiers during the 100 man fight - her priorities in each of those instances instantly switch to Guts’ wellbeing as soon as she’s not in immediate danger.

There are a couple other instances of assault that at least get reactions, if not nearly as emotionally powerful as Guts and Griffith’s - Charlotte shuddering when her father is brought up and refusing to acknowledge him, Farnese breaking down after her really bad night with Guts and possession, Casca demonstrating clear fear of Guts after he assaults her - so like, it’s something at least? But yk, Charlotte’s is perfunctory, Farnese’s is more focused on seeing ghosts than being assaulted by them, and Casca is still infantalized.

But hey, I guess now we’ll see if Casca finally gets a strong and compelling expression of her trauma.

Anyway yeah tl;dr I do think in Berserk a lot more care and thoughtfulness is given to traumatized men than women, and despite having a couple prominent male victims, it still falls into the typical default of the basic threat to women being rape, while with men it’s always either when they’re children, and thus more readily viewed as potential victims, or under particularly unique and personal circumstances that don’t lend themselves to viewing men in general as potential victims of sexual assault.

[awed-frog]

hi there! i dont tend to trust sdcc interviews but i figure i'd ask this so i could get your opinion! a big thing they were talking about was the aftermath of michael on dean.. if they do this right it could be SO good and SO interesting for his character.. so i was gonna ask what you think this means for his character? after he is done being possessed by michael?

Hi! I haven’t heard the spoilers, and to be honest my enthusiasm about the show is pretty much in free fall - under a cut and sort of bitter, okay?

So, the obvious parallels that come to mind are Dean coming back from Hell and Dean being freed from the Mark, and I think the time and energy the show spent of those aftermaths is very telling of what the narrative priorities are. 

If you look at the post-Hell period - was intense. I haven’t rewatched that season in a while, but I seem to remember they spent a lot of time on how broken and not himself Dean was? And the whole thing, of course, was revealed to be even more tragic than what fans expected when Dean decided to tell Sam about how he’d chosen to torture others. Ouch. That was some truly powerful stuff, especially because in the pre-Hell period Dean had mostly pretended to be carefree - scarfing down burgers for breakfast, having threesomes, and generally trying to convince himself (and others) that since he never had much of a lifespan anyway, this death made complete sense. All of that, of course, was masterfully contrasted with how Dean actually died - he never got the hero death I’m sure many were expecting, the beautiful and sexy death main characters and pretty people are mostly gifted (or burdened) with. Instead, it was terrifying, base, humiliating affair - Dean was literally torn apart by dogs as his baby brother watched (not to mention he regretted his righteous decision as soon as he landed in Hell, and found himself calling for Sam like a frightened child instead of suffering his fate in manly silence). Jesus Sycamore Christ. That was beyond sobering, as was the whole post-Hell period - and especially how Dean wasn’t, in the end, all that happy to be alive again. Again: ouch.

What happened in S11 was rather different. On the whole, I enjoyed that season a lot, but while there were some tense and emotional moments for Dean (like his conversation with God), I found it very odd - and somewhat disappointing - that nobody ever mentioned the Mark again. After all, it was implied (or stated outright? I honestly don’t remember) that the Mark didn’t exactly change Dean; its power was preying on people, and taking their worst instincts to horrifying extremes. For instance, Dean kept hunting, but where he would normally give people a second chance, or find a solution that didn’t involve a full-out massacre, MoC!Dean never cared about that at all. However necessary it was for Dean to choose this burden (and even that is debatable), it led very directly to the death of a bunch of innocent people - Charlie, of course, but also the NoHomo hunter, knockoff Draco Malfoy and Rowena’s godchild (you’d think she’d mention him again at some point, or that Sam and Cas would bring him up in a kind of ‘Hey, remember when we slaughtered an innocent teen on the off chance his beating and bloodied heart could cure Dean? Good times’, but nope). To make matters worse, those four deaths happened in the space of a couple of days? And I get that Dean had other things on his mind soon after he was cured, but I still found it bizarre that they never came up at all. I mean - sure, there were subtextual clues and all that - when are there not, amirite - but to me, it was too weak. Honestly, it looked like Dean (and Sam, and Cas) just didn’t give a damn about the trail of destruction they’d left behind. Because this is what’s never acknowledged in S11: that those deaths were on them. Whoever got killed when Dean had the Mark: on them. And, more directly and unequivocally, all those people Amara killed: on them. That’s some powerful stuff, and yet it’s never explored at all, because it’s not what the current showrunner is interested in.

All this to say: in theory, post-Michael!Dean should be huge. The fact Dean took the decision so quickly was already a narrative blunder, considering how he’d been in exactly the same situation (and worse) in earlier seasons but had decided to say no to Michael. I mean - Dean’s free will and how it clashes with his need to help others - that’s the core of the character, and yet it took one line of dialogue to erase it into nothingness. Now, heading into S14 it looks pretty likely that Dean will rid himself of Michael very early - we’re talking two or three episodes, max, and apparently that’s our fault or something (don’t even get me started), which means this Very Meaningful and Earth-Shattering thing is already losing importance in favour of - I don’t know.

(More KFC demons? Lucifer’s cousin Throckmorton? Bobby and Mary’s budding romance and how that is finally the thing that turns Mary into a Tupperware wife and removes her from the boys’ lives in a believable way? I guess we’ll see.)

Will it have an effect on Dean? Obviously I can’t say for sure, but I doubt it. 

Like, for one, Michael has no beef with Dean, and vice versa. These two characters are not connected in any emotional way. To Michael, Dean is just a random and contemptible human; to Dean, Michael is just another over-ambitious freak in need of a good beheading. As for archangel possession - that’s tricky. Some guys are left empty shells; Sam wasn’t, and Cas wasn’t (and Dean is another main character, so he can’t be hurt too badly). Sam suffered a lot, but that’s because Lucifer hated him and had a personal vendetta against him. As a comparison, when Lucifer possessed Cas, he basically gave Cas a nice TV and never bothered him again, and I think that’s a more accurate description of the connection between AU!Michael and Dean. Neither of them cares enough for this thing to escalate. So whatever happens between them (Michael dies; Michael is kicked back to the AU!world; Michael finds another suitable vessel; Michael is forced into an unsuitable vessel), I don’t think there’ll be a lot of focus on how that changes Dean.

On the plus side, there are solid narrative reasons for that lack of focus to make sense. For instance, Dean’s never been the emotionally stunted troll fanon keeps pretending he is, but over the last two seasons he’s really made an effort to make his feelings crystal clear, and he’s been berated and ignored every single time. So if I were him, I don’t think I’d be very eager to confide in Sam ‘What about MY feelings?’ Winchester, Mary ‘Ew, I don’t want to be your mom’ Winchester or Cas ‘You humans make everything so needlessly complicated’ Winchester (he’s a brother now, right? even if for some reason we’re seeing him less than Jack). No, Dean is likely to keep his feelings private - despite the fact this experience should, logically, be a turning point for him. We know Dean has big issues when it comes to giving up control, and possession is - inevitably - also a metaphor for rape, which is - canonically? - a part of Dean’s past (look at Alastair’s unnecessary queering, for God’s sake). So a post!Michael Dean - he could have less confidence in himself, especially if his decision ends up doing more harm than good for some reason, or he could develop PTSD and decide to retire because he’s got nothing left to give (narratively sound, but not a place the show can afford to go to) or he could become nihilistic and even more determined to get his blaze of glory ending, and sooner rather than later (after all, we know he gets suicidal when he feels he needs to atone, so).

From a RL perspective, I don’t know how much of that we’ll see. Considering how little they used post-MoC!Dean, I think maybe we can expect some new crisis which will keep the focus off Dean’s feelings and opinions. On the other hand, S13 was basically a ‘best of’ of the Kripke era, so it’s possible that S14 will revisit the post-Hell!Dean theme in some way. I don’t know. Lately, the show seems determined to prove our heroes are Good People Who’ve Done Nothing Wrong Ever, so from that perspective Dean saying yes to Michael should turned out to be a Big Mistake, because Dean saying no to Michael is basically half of what saved the world the first time around. Then again, I’m not seeing a lot of coherence on that front (I’m on team ‘Why was the AU!world even about Mary’, sorry about that), so, really - everything is anyone’s guess. At this point, the one thing we can predict about Supernatural is that if you’re interested in the characters’ inner lives and in them actually evolving in some healthy way, you’re better off with fanfiction.

I apologize. I know that was depressing and bitter. Here is a baby owl.

[boleynns]

LOOSE ENDS, ASSHOLES.

I wrote this 3 days ago, because I just KNEW they were going to fuck it all up.

^PHOTO OF A LIAR, for reference. LONG list of pissed off thoughts below.

ON YOUR WATCH.

That Molly scene in TFP was so horrendous. I don’t even ship them at all, but really. How much of an asshole do you have to be???

How did John and Sherlock survive a bomb by jumping through glass windows and landing 2 stories down on the concrete with no injuries?

How did they get on that boat?

WHY were they on that boat?

WTF was that imaginary plane bullshit???

NO ONE CARES THAT THE DOG ISNT REAL, ARE YOU KIDDING ME

Why did Mary think John would pull away from Sherlock if she died, if she didn’t know she was going to die saving Sherlock? If she’d died ANY other way, John would have no reason to pull away.

Why did Mary give Sherlock the 10000% worst advice in the world (seriously, who tf tells their “friend”, who is a DRUG ADDICT, “GO FUCK YOURSELF on drugs, and GO DIE on purpose” on the random ass off chance that John would find this out in time???)?

Why did Mary have a slip of paper to knock Sherlock out prepared ahead of time?

Why did Mary tell Sherlock and John that “A.G.R.A.” was her initials, when if they had just looked at the fucking drive they would see her real name?

Why was she SOOOOO worried that Sherlock and John would look at the drive, if all that was on there were A.G.R.A.’s identities???

Why did Mary shoot Sherlock directly in the chest point blank, which did kill him enough that the doctors GAVE UP, if she wasn’t trying to fucking kill him dead forever?

Why would Mary not recognize Vivian (or at least, her voice) if A.G.R.A. worked with her?

If Mycroft dealt with freelancers, why did he not know Mary wasn’t fucking MARY???

Why would Mary name her daughter after an alias that could get said daughter KILLED??? AND WE FUCKING KNOW THAT NAME WAS DANGEROUS, BECAUSE MARY LEFT IT BEHIND TO BECOME “MARY MORSTAN” YOU IDIOTS

What did John’s letter to Sherlock say? If is wasn’t going to be addressed, why the fuck would you put it in the episode??

Why did Molly deliver such a hard “John would rather have anyone but you. Anyone” message if it had NO POINT.

Where did the baby go when everyone the baby knew was at John’s “Therapist’s” office at the beginning of TLD? And don’t give me that “it was with friendS” crap, literally only Sherlock, Molly, and Mrs. Hudson went to that kid’s babyshower for fuck sake, John has no other friends.

If you can’t handle the placement of a baby for ONE EPISODE, don’t write one into your show FOR LITERALLY NO REASON.

What was Sherlock’s reoccurring dream that he was telling Ella? Why put that in if it wasn’t important?

If Mary isn’t bad, and therefore wasn’t working with “Faith” and Culverton to set Sherlock up to die (which would have been a perfect and interesting conspiracy), HOW did “Faith” and Culverton know Sherlock would be drugged up enough to fall into their trap??

WTF was the POINT of Eurus texting with John IF SHE WASNT WORKING WITH MARY to mess with Him and Sherlock? Literally ZERO point to the “plot”.

Also, we see that John and Eurus see eachother for a 2nd time at the bus stop. I thought it was important, even though y’all acted like all they did was text, BUT NOPE just another loose end.

TD-12 was absolutely useless, and you spent SO MUCH time on it. 

why did mary keep repeating villain lines (“Miss me?” multiple times, “Anyone!” multiple times in her video, literally fuck off)

If mary had time to jump 5 feet to take a bullet after its already been shot than sherlock had time to jump out of the way you idiots

also the irony of your holier-than-thou deduction sequence when Sherlock got shot, about how big spurts of dramatic blood only happens in movies? You literally fucked yourself.

zero point to Sherlock and John’s extended “ROMANTIC LOVE WILL COMPLETE YOUUUUU” scene on every level, went no where

speaking of that scene, how did Sherlock hear “Mary” say that he should wear the hat???? HUH>?

Mrs. Hudson WATCHED Mary’’s DVD with sherlock, why was she all “OH, wonder what this is, what could it be, WOW LOOK JOHN its your wife???” later with John and Mycroft WHEN SHE KNEW SHERLOCK WAS PROBABLY DYING

Also why would she just let John watch that cold, knowing Mary’s face would show up??

Why did you make Irene a lesbian if you were going to keep making her ride Sherlock’s dick via text message AGAIN.

I’m sure she would want to tell you this if she was here, so I’ll relay the message: LITERALLY GO FUCK YOURSELVES, YOU “SHERLOCK CAN TURN A LESBIAN WOMAN STRAIGHT, HES JUST THAT AMAZING, NO HOMO!!!” ASSHOLES

why was John still crying about his no homo bro being dead after two years, no offense to my best friend but I will think of you really fondly but probably not be going to therapy forever and being all “I literally am so heartbroken that i cant even say the things that i wanted to say to him when he was alive”

speaking of that thing that he couldn’t say out loud to Ella the Therapist: i guess he just really wanted to tell sherlock “No homo tho”, just to make sure he knew that before he died

speaking of things unsaid - I guess the serious thing that sherlock was going to say to john on the tarmac, that he chose not to say for absolutely no decernable reason, was “Bro, I’m gonna miss you, bro! We had some good bro times bro, NO HOMO!!1!” and then they do that back-slap hug that guys do so things don't get too homo

no offense to the prop department, but that light-up skull, that would be either lit or not lit or COMPLETELY BLACK, was bullshit

speaking of bullshit: kindly shove all of those elephants up your ass

including that Take-Out menu on Mycroft’s fridge. I hope you get a paper-cut that never heals.

i might as well have not even bothered taking notes on these episodes, when I could have literally never watched the show before, not cared at all, and been totally fulfilled by everything by not giving a shit about details and character arcs and, you know, literally all of ACD’s original works.

OMG SHERLOCK HAS A SISTER, I don’t fucking care.

AW POOR MARY, John and her were clearly soooo in love!! - says a person who thinks couples that don’t want to be together even a little are super romantic

literally he was trying to leave his marriage like a month after it started, literally go fuck yourself

Your show made less sense, in terms of emotion and character arcs, than Guy Ritchie’s cash grab movies. Yeah. I said it.

“Look at us both”. YEAH, LOOK AT YOURSELVES IN THE MIRROR.

oh wait i forgot, you don’t know what a mirror is. what is literature? what are emotions? idk, lets make mary gasp for breathe and say “you were my whole world!!!” to john even though that makes zero fucking sense for her character or their relationship at all and does huge disservice to them both LOL

Mary could have been the most Awesome Badass Mastermind EVER but you fucked her

An Emotional Arc: Its this thing where characters (who, like people) have emotions (CRAZZY i know), and they start in one place emotionally, and end somewhere new through the story! Lets see:

Sherlock: Starts as a suave, kinda swashbuckling guy who tries to tidy up his apartment for John, asks him to dinner, and basically blushes at John’s attention. In the middle: a bit of an asshole, but one who literally tries to die for John over and over, and literally COMES BACK TO LIFE from a FATAL gunshot bc his subconsious doesn’t want to leave John with Mary. End? “Sometimes I text Irene, just like you text your side-chick! No Homo For Life, RIGHT??? Don’t think about how every action I take is to keep you safe or happy, lol”

John: Starts as an emotionally repressed, suicidal, PTSD stricken loner who is immediately enamored with Sherlock’s brain, and literally kills a man like 1 day after they meet. Middle: A bit of an asshole who is horrible at understanding that Sherlock is NOT a robot without feelings - but an asshole who is willing to die for him, and with him, but who has major trust issues. End? “I wish I had REALLY cheated on Mary with Bus Girl, I can’t believe I missed my chance! Also, even though I’m reacting extremely jealously to you texting Irene, I think you should hit that! Now hold me while I cry, and then lets get cake while my baby cries on the floor like a Sim somewhere NO HOMEO”

I will never let you forget this.

Congrats actually, you HAVE made history! You’ve made a Historically Huge Fuck Up.

Your show’s depth is thinner than Donald Trump’s skin.

200+ adaptations of Sherlock Holmes, no courage present - oh, except for that one parody “Oklahomo” one (thanks for including Sherlock tweeting an “Oklahoma!” reference also! if I had balls, that would’ve been a kick to them!).

LOL Sherlock and John - literally so hilarious!! All those people whining “They’re Not GAY that gross, Doyle would be rolling in his grave if he found out people thought that!” and “NO! SHERLOCK IS AN EMOTIONLESS ROBOT except he can fuck irene I'm okay with that for some reason”? They were all right! What a fucking joke.

I guess “Could he daily feel a stab of hunger for you, and find nourishment at the very sight of you? Yes [he’s in love with you]. But do you ache for him?” meant nothing—OH WAIT that’s from a show that actually textually acknowledged the feelings of love between it’s two main characters. And they didn’t even say “No homo!” afterwards?? I can’t believe it.

don’t ever ask your audience to pay attention on a subtextual level again. clearly, you can’t handle it.

also: I honestly couldn’t give a shit about your endless and constant derision and annoyance with people asking about the relationship between the MAIN CHARACtTERS OF YOUR FUCKING SHOW get over yourselves, and i really hope somehow ACD comes back as a ghost to haunt you one christmas, just to tell you straightt to your stupid faces that you fucked up, and how sad he is that it will always be 1895 - because nothing ever changes, and they will be stuck there forever, out of time.

how dare you bring Oscar Wilde and Freddie Mercury into this mess.

Your intentions don’t matter - what matters is that I would have been better off not paying attention to literally ANY details, not caring one ounce about the characters, and just tuning in as a completely casual viewer. 

The real lesson was “Caring is not an advantage.”, and that is sad.

And the real Final Problem? “It’s not about the characters, its about some stupid ass dog and a stupid ass ‘Saw’ house, and who gives a shit about the rest.

Congratulations - I no longer care!

[dreamersscape]

I read your theories on Jasper in S4 and while I also don't have much hope for him surviving beyond 4x11 either, I am hopeful that 'The Other Side' could be a powerful send off for him. I'm praying that we'll finally get a Jasper arc flashback. And what pleased me the most about your predictions post...OMG, someone else wants a Clarke/Jasper hug! So I'm not the only one who's desperate for Clasper reconciliation?

Yeah, if I deliberately don’t think about the possibility of Jasper’s death, I actually feel…cautiously optimistic about the potential for some substantial, rich Jasper content in 4x11. Ark flashbacks with him would be amazing! However, my big fear is that if they leave it until that episode to build up to or develop the events relating to how he may die, it could potentially feel rather rushed and not very well thought out. It’s not necessarily this show’s history with character death that gives me those fears as much as my personal history of repeatedly watching favorite characters die in ways that ultimately feel pointless, unnecessary, or fruitless for the story and/or cruelly inevitable, futile, and nihilistic for the character. I would really, really like The 100 to avoid following that pattern if they have to kill my most beloved character again. And if he gets sidelined or pigeon-holed for a good portion of the season leading up to 4x11, that won’t look like a good sign for me and that hope. Plus–and this is a bit of a selfish wish–it’ll make it a lot easier for the fandom to ignore him. So much of the discussion out there relating to Jasper is focused on the likelihood of his death already, and while I don’t believe we should never speak of it beforehand, I would wish that there will be enough storyline for the character that it’d be difficult for those people who would be inclined to skip over having to think about Jasper and his role to do so and that those of us who really enjoy the character won’t be forced to focus on something that we’d prefer not happen, to put it mildly. :)

Oh, you are so not alone, my friend! Reconciliation between Clarke and Jasper is something that I’ve already been fervently hoping for, but especially so now; it would feel like a major loose end if it doesn’t get resolved. I have faith that they’ll do right by Jasper and Monty, but slightly less so for Clarke and Jasper. A sweet, genuine hug between them could perfectly encapsulate that resolution though! (I say, not at all dying to make a gifset of every instance of Jasper throwing his arms around Clarke that would just not feel complete without one more occurrence given everything that’s transpired after the last time.) Starting with Clarke saving his life after the spear incident, Jasper not only looked up to Clarke, but he trusted that she would always do her best to keep them safe. It was safe if he put his life in her hands. I think a feeling of safety would be particularly powerful and affecting for Jasper, considering his continuous high anxiety and PTSD since reaching the ground e.g. why he didn't want to believe MW wasn't a safe place for the delinquents and resisted being suspicious of them longer than the others. I’m struggling to find words to properly convey what I mean, but suffice it to say, Jasper’s relationship to Clarke has been profoundly significant right from the beginning. So when I see people (what seems to me) reduce Jasper’s side of his 3x11 scenes with Clarke to “he’s angry with her about Maya and being a jerk” it’s aggravating because yes, that’s part of it and there are other factors (his clinging to the possibility of having saved everyone by killing Cage, Clarke’s sudden presence acting as a trigger, etc.), but few bring up that at the heart of Jasper’s animosity towards Clarke is–from his perspectiv–a very deep, personal betrayal of trust. We all understand why Clarke (and Bellamy & Monty) pulled the MW lever, and I think Jasper could as well theoretically, but of all the threats that life on Earth has presented for him, he just never expected that it would be Clarke who would be the ‘cause’ of so much ‘harm’. (Same for Monty, although Monty has always been in his life and he’s only known Clarke on the ground, so she could have been a more direct contrast to this new dangerous place where they now live.) This is all a subtextual thing, I realize; I’m not to imply anyone who hasn’t analyzed Jasper’s issues with Clarke with this in mind is an idiot for not looking at it this way. Anyway, I know that in real life, not every fractured relationship gets to heal, there are loose ends, but I NEED for this thread to get tied up neatly.

But if the worse should happen and there is no hug, I will draw us one. Just so it will be a thing that exists. Also because I like drawing hugs. :)

[awed-frog]

You said in your s13 meta that the narrative suffers from keeping Destiel in the subtext. Can you elaborate a bit on that? For example, would you have them enter a romantic relationship now (or in earlier seasons) or would you be okay with it only happening towards the end of the show as long as it gets shoved more into 'text' level along the way - however that would look? How would you personally go about it in a way that fits into the narrative of the show?

Well - I think there are a bunch of reasons why keeping Destiel in the subtext is hurting the show (narratively). Off the top of my head -

1) This kind of subtext - ie, scattered clues that can be as obscure as beer labels or paintings on the walls - is usually reserved for Big, Shocking Revelations - for instance, the identity of the murderer in a thriller. I can’t think of one single example in which the subtextual clues led to a ‘Guess what - she actually luuuuurves him!’, and there’s good reason for that - a romantic attraction is not interesting enough to leave the audience to guess it and half perceive it out of the corner of their eyes. A hidden subtext should be the kind of thing where you gasp and stare when it’s revealed and then you go back and rewatch the whole thing in disbelief (also annoyance, because part of you is not surprised by this at all, but you never listened to that part ‘cause your a gullible fool). For younger readers, the revelations about Snape in HP fit this model well; for older viewers, a good example is the ending of The Others or Fight Club. Romantically speaking, the only close equivalent to what Supernatural is doing goes something along the lines of sexual awakening - a beautiful example is Tracy Chevalier’s Girl with a Pearl Earring, in which it’s very clear for an adult reader that Griet is attracted to Vermeer from the very first moment she sees him, and yet the UST builds and builds because Griet herself is too young and inexperienced to see it - and when she finally realizes it, holy shit. Even in that case, though, the romance wasn’t exactly subtextual - every single adult around Griet wondered at it - her mother warned her to stay away from Vermeer, Vermeer’s wife was openly jealous from the second Griet started working for their household, the other servants were also suspicious of why Griet was spending so much time alone with Vermeer and so on and so forth. The tension came from the fact Griet herself didn’t understand what was going on - not from the thing being completely subtextual. So, to me, the fact Supernatural thinks a (gay) love story needs to be put in the subtext - it’s more than offensive - it’s just not effective.

2) Destiel is destroying Sam’s characterization, because they increasingly use him to contrast Dean’s feelings, which means Sam is mostly forced not to care about Cas at all. And so, while the two of them had some stolen moments where they were allowed to be themselves (ie, people who like each other and feel a deep affection for each other), Sam is often shown to be cold and unconcerned whenever Cas is mentioned. When Dean was fretting about Cas being possessed by Lucifer, for instance, Sam always acted like he couldn’t care less - which was annoying, not only on Cas’ behalf, but also because Sam knows what Lucifer is like, and he would never be so indifferent about Lucifer possessing anyone. Or when Cas was suffering from PTSD and would spend his days watching dog videos, again we had Dean (rightly, rationally) worried about him, while Sam brushed it off completely. Also the ‘it-gate’, remember that? And now, now Cas is actually dead, and this is still going on - Dean is very nearly broken, and Sam - Sam is fine with it. Doesn’t give a damn. And the thing is, if Dean’s love was out in the open, then they could let Sam care about Cas, because it would be textual that there’s still a difference there (Dean = lover, Sam = friend); but since that is not textual, this is what we’re left with - a join the dots game where they want us to wonder why Dean cares so much when Sam, the rational one, doesn’t care at all.

Moreover, the fact there are these huge subtextual secrets about Dean (that he’s bi, that he loves Cas) only makes him more interesting to write, while leaving nothing for Sam to do. It could even be argued that this is the true reversal of the Supernatual narrative - the first five seasons were about Sam and how he felt like a freak because of his Big Secret (which was textual: his psychic powers, and, later, his addiction to demon blood), while the next five seasons were about Dean and his Big Secret (and that only half worked, because everything is still subtextual, which means Dean’s narrative has not resolved in any neat, elegant way - nothing comparable to Swan Song - which also means the story is still about Dean, that it will be about Dean until the narrative knot is gone, and they seem adamant never to go there, so where does this leave us?).

3) Ironically enough, Destiel is also hurting Dean and Cas as characters. Cas, in particular, had an arc that was all about destroying his identity in earlier seasons (the break with Heaven and so on), and lately that’s shifted to building himself a new identity - his increasingly human feelings have been a big part of that, and to be fair, they did allow him to explore them - a journey that probably started with his rejection of Hannah and culminated in that infamous I love you - but this could have been done much better, and in a more coherent way, if Cas had been allowed to find Dean attractive as a potential romantic partner. And in a way, the same goes for Dean - we teetered on the edge of why things are different with Cas so many times, and they came closest, perhaps, in S8, but as long as they refuse to take that final step, it’s not clear, exactly, why Dean should care so much about Cas - about someone who’s far from perfect, and has betrayed them or let them down or hurt them many times in the past. And something else that only made sense if you squinted, of course, was Dean’s peculiar, sometimes volatile relationship with Crowley, and how his attitude to Crowley differed from Sam’s. I’ve seen people confused about that, but if you fill in the subtextual blanks - ie, Crowley loved Dean (as much as demons can love, that is), and they were actually together when Dean was a demon, and then had an awkward break-up when Crowley realized Dean could not love anyone as a demon, and would never love Crowley as a human - well - that’s suddenly a coherent narrative, isn’t it?

4) And finally, Supernatural is often built on parallels and mirrors, and the problem is, you need an equilibrium for that. If half your metaphor is out in the open, and the other half is subtextual, it just doesn’t work. That was one of the big problems with both S10 and S11 - remember the whole Colette story, which went nowhere? And how Amara represented the wrong way to love, contrasted with the right way, which was…what? And, sure, for some viewers that may work just fine, and others may even enjoy to be left guessing, but me - I like my symmetry, and I like honesty, and I found it profoundly frustrating that both those stories were left unfinished.

As to what I would do differently - I don’t particularly like fluff, and I don’t think either Cas or Dean are ready for a relationship right now, so I guess - what I would change is that I would make this thing between them textual but not to each other? There are many ways to do that - romantic movies basically live off them - character A talks to her friends or parents, has a revealing dream, thinks out loud, writes in a journal, does something incredibly stupid which makes it clear they’re madly in love - we’re spoiled for choice. The how and what, of course, depends on the world around your characters, and the specific challenges they face, which is why my way of bringing Dean and Cas together varies with the story I’m telling. In one fic, it’s Dean who comes forward and downright invites Cas to stay the night; in another, it’s Cas who demands that Dean comes clean about his feelings; in yet another one, Dean acknowledges those feelings, but says he can’t act on them because of Imminent Death and whatever else; and in the one I’m writing right now, my AU!S13, well - you’ll have to wait and see. For the show itself, I like a suggestion that’s been surfing through tumblr for a while - an episode featuring some ex of Dean’s (a man) so that Sam will be forced to put the pieces together, and next, some kind of conversation about Cas, and how Dean doesn’t feel worthy or ready or something. Sam shouldn’t play matchmaker (I know we like that in fanfiction, but I doubt that canon!Sam has either the skill or the inclination to do that), but knowing this very private thing about his brother - well - that can only be healthy, for both of them. And when it finally comes out (with Cas), I think it should be in anger, because that’s who Dean is - someone who blurts out things he never meant to say when he’s terrified and furious and worried out of his mind - and next, I’d have them separated, of course, because UST is a good thing and yay and keep it up. 

(Oh, and as for what I would be okay with - every single romantic relationship on Supernatural has been about falling into bed together, and Dean is a deeply sexual person, and we know Cas is not against that - at all, so no - I wouldn’t be happy with a five minute handshake at the very end, but I also wouldn’t be happy with the show changing everything it is jut to fit a romance in - and, most of all, I wouldn’t be happy with an ambiguous, ‘you’re the viewer, you decide’ Sherlock ending - nope. What I want is enough time for both characters to come to terms with how they’re feeling, followed by a clear, textual scene of them getting together, followed by their relationship being never brought up again as a central element of the show. Everything stays exactly the same, except sometimes Dean and Cas get a room just for the two of them, and Dean fixes Cas’ tie (which he does anyway), and Sam teases him about something or other because he’s a little shit, and Cas stares at Dean - a lot (which he does anyway), and maybe more hugs? and that’s it. They hunt, they do stuff, they face tragic choices - Supernatural shouldn’t be about a love story - it just shouldn’t hide it, because there’s nothing wrong with your main character being queer and it’s 2017 so maybe deal with it, show?)