#also not a dabb fan

[caswlw]

the idea that they’re writing the season as they go so they’re seeing the reaction the audience has and that it (even in the smallest way possible) could have an impact on what happens this season (and in future seasons) is so wild to me. not saying that they’re seeing our response and saying “oh that sounds good, totally writing that in,” but it’s not impossible to say that they will see what the people want, realize the best way to generate buzz and excitement and increased viewership is to keep your fans happy, and then actually do something about it instead of killing characters/storylines just for kicks

911 has the opportunity to be that bitch even more than it already is and they shouldn’t squander it while they’re on top

[antigonewinchester]

and while it's a little weird to hear that one of the lead actors didn't know or understand his character's emotional thru line for a whole season of television -- yes, actors bring their own interpretations to their characters but that kind of confusion speaks to writers / a writers room that didn't have a vision for the season, and ultimately actors are supposed to be interpreting the story they're given by the writers -- what's more uncomfortable personally is how Jackles's search for that emotional continuity sounds very similar to how fandom searches for character inferiority & continuity and how much SPN's later seasons seem to coast on that fandom energy compared to developing actual character coherence w/in the show. there's bad writing, sometimes a character arc doesn't quite work the way the writers wanted it to, and I will complain about it but I can also understand it, storytelling is hard, they're all on deadlines and esp for a serial TV show like SPN. but the writers depending on its fandom audience to add in vital elements to its characterization & narrative, it just feels... shitty. a deliberate capturing of fandom's attention & engagement & creativity to drive the product, and its not fandom that stands to make any $$ because of it.

the thing that's really Big Ooof about that interaction for me is Jackles is trying so hard to find Dean's emotional continuity thru the season but IMO the simplest answer is that Dabb didn't actually have anything underlying Amara's "Dean, I'm going to give you what you need most" > bringing Mary's back in terms of an emotional thru-line. it was about bringing back Mary for the audience / they could get Samantha Smith [as compared to JDM] / to be self-referential / for family drama. which is why Berens is confused when Jackles bring it up; because Berens wasn't thinking of that line at all.

[drulalovescas]

the thing is. when you ignore the whole jimmy in heaven nonsense and take into consideration everything said post THAT nonsense- by misha, kripke, dabb, fans who visited the vancouver set etc etc, the cas/dean reunion in the roadhouse, them sitting at the bar, cas' arm around dean's shoulders - it. all. adds. up.

it's not that misha is each time telling a different story. except for that ONE time, right after the finale, when he talked about it being jimmy in heaven. he's actually telling the same story, each time adding a new tidbit. so i guess what i'm saying is. next year we can all hear misha say; well actually dean and cas were supposed to be balls deep on that bar in that roadhouse because 1. this man is a troll 2. he could just be making shit up for our entertainment and his own amusement and 3. what will they do?? fire him??

but there is also a really truly genuinely terrifyingly good chance that all he's been saying about the destiel reunion in heaven is actually TRUE.

EDIT: I've just remembered Jensen's MONTHS long radio silence post the finale. And Jensen's and Misha's absence in the official thank you video. AND Jensen breaking the sexy silence only to comment on the IG handprint post. AND the rumour that Jensen wanted to wait with the shooting for the finale until after covid so that it could've been done properly.

Well, you don't do all THAT if you think what you actually got was the perfect ending. You do all that if you believe the alternative would've been so much better.

[i-isa-i]

I think it’s so interesting how much authority is awarded “the author” in different fandoms. You always here people scream “Death of the Author” but still hold up authorship as an authoritative concept.

Like, when Buffy had bad storylines the consensus was something like ‘trust Joss Whedon” who btw turned out to be a horrible person.

Similarly, Kripke was kind of deified by the fandom (and also kind of by the show) during early seasons spn.

Even disclaimers on fanfics show this dynamic. Why did we write stuff like ‘these characters belong to JKR’?!? Like no shit, I didn’t create Sirius Black but the character still doesn’t belong to that woman?

It’s so interesting to look at the stark difference between gomens and spn fan discourse at the moment. I’m not saying one way is the right way, just that the dynamics are interesting.

Neil says something and most people respect it, some even see it as their duty to act as his apostle and spread his word. People are in his asks to try and get his opinion on certain fan theory bc they consider him the ultimate authority over canon.

And then you have spn fans, especially destiel fans. Not only do they not care what kripke/ dabb or most of the show runners say, they actively oppose the “authors”’ perceived interpretations of the characters and routinely make fun of them. Dabb says he wrote a finale that is only meant to satisfy 30% of the fans and the rest of the fandom decides to strike it from canon and collectively produce enough fix-it fic to fill a library.

Can you imagine what would have happened if Dabb or Kripke or whoever had asked the fandom to keep a spoiler or leak like the gomens one a secret?!? It would have become a meme in 5 seconds and it would have trended above a historic election.

[scoobydoodean]

ok so I deeply love and respect your thoughts on supernatural because the majority of them line up with what I've been thinking for years but you said something the other day that I keep turning over in my brain and it was something along the lines of carver liking dean more than sam - I know you're in the middle of rewatching s4 but I would love to hear you expound on that (if you have time) because I remember being in the fandom while carvernatural was airing and it was pretty much when the deangirl exodus started. in fact I think people tore into him worse than dabb even 😭

feel free to hold onto this until later when you start the carver seasons if you wish :)

<3 I'll go ahead and answer this one, because it's more of a "broad strokes" thing for me, and I've been rewatching very slowly (on purpose) so that could be a very long wait.

This is so funny because I can just picture Sam fans reading it and turning red and their blood boiling with the fire of a thousand suns but the TL;DR is that season 8-11 (Carver era) broad strokes to me are:

Sam sucks and is a worse brother and person than Dean.

Sam spends the first two seasons of Carver's run thinking he's a better person than Dean anyway and then the second two knowing he sucks, deciding to embrace his moral flexibility to keep Dean alive no matter the cost, and trying to mend things.

Dean is circled by many potential suitors who also in a sense represent Sam replacements because Sam sucks: Benny, Cas, Crowley, and Amara.

Dean knows that Sam sucks and part of him wants to get tf away from him very badly but another part of him feels guilty for wanting that. Family is suffering. Family is a chain around your neck keeping you tied to them via guilt. (Demon Dean represents the desire for escape, as does Amara).

Everybody wants to be with Dean, be Dean, and/or be loved by Dean. Dean is love. Dean is the world. Dean is the reason for existing. Everybody is lovesick about him. Sam is just there.

Sam needs to stop blaming Dean for so many things and learn to own his own choices.

That was fun to write down.

Longer commentary/explanation below the cut.

Season 8 (Carver's first season) literally begins with a Sam character assassination. It begins with us learning that Sam knowingly left Kevin to spend the rest of his life kidnapped and tortured without even telling a soul what happened to him. Not only did he abandon Dean and Cas as well but he didn't even look for them, and refuses to give a satisfying answer as to why.

Season 8 Sam's abandonment as distinct from previous behavior

I have had people this year who I love and respect tell me they don't view this as a character assassination and say they believe this is in character for Sam. I simply do not agree with that. I talk about this as it relates to Kevin here.

Sam has displayed selfishness and a big ego at many points in the series up to season 8. He's told a lot of lies (sometimes to the point of gaslighting), he's gone behind Dean's back to do things that affect Dean's life, he's taken traumatic experiences Dean opened up to him about and ultimately harmed Dean with them, he's shown resentments and anger, he's displayed jealousy, he's displayed a sense of superiority. He has never abandoned his brother to die without even trying. The Sam of season 3 would eviscerate season 8 Sam for this.

Sometimes Sam says and does things he shouldn't, but his crimes do not include "abandoning Dean to die without even looking for him" up to season 8. Many of his crimes happen at least partly because he really really doesn't want Dean to die or is desperate to save his life. He lets go of his anger at John and returns to make sure Dean is safe in 1.11. He refuses to give up and finds a way to save Dean in 1.12. In 1.22, he's willing to put John's life at risk for revenge, but in 2.01 he gets into an outright screaming match with John in the hospital under the belief that John's prioritizing the demon over Dean. Sam spends all of season 3 raging and angst-ing about not being able to save Dean to the point of considering and doing some shady as hell things/abandoning some of his more stalwart moral stances (3.05, 3.11, 3.15, 3.16). Dean's death and later, the desire to secure his safety/future, is one of the catalysts for Sam's descent into drinking demon blood (3.09, 3.16, 4.04, 4.09, 4.12). When he dies in "Swan Song", he urges Dean to pursue a normal, safe, life because he knows that at that point in time, Dean wants to get out but has always felt trapped (2.09, 2.10, 2.20, 3.01, 4.12, 4.16). Even Soulless Sam (who isn't the same as regular Sam) tried to look for Dean in 6.09 "Clap Your Hands If You Believe"—it was simply that when leads for the night dried up, he hooked up with someone because he had nothing more to go on and in soulless Sam's head that was the reasonable thing to do. But soulless Sam also certainly isn't representative of the real Sam—the fact that he doesn't care as much is supposed to point us to differences between him and regular Sam. Season 8 opens with Sam abandoning Dean in a context that makes him arguably worse than his soulless self.

(I talk about why Sam actually abandons everyone in season 8 in a very long post here).

Season 8 and 9 more broadly

So Carver has Sam abandon Dean to die without even trying. Then he has Sam refuse to give any kind of actually reasonable explanation that makes sense to anyone who was paying attention. Then he has Sam say that he's going to leave the life and Dean needs to get over it and accept that Sam's new life will not include contact with Dean (just like his life at Stanford didn't). While saying he's going to leave, he still wants to exert control over Dean's relationships and leverages the threat of leaving (as if he were going to stay) to get Dean to shut up about Sam abandoning him and then again to try and get Dean to cut ties with Benny. He wants to kill Benny before knowing a single thing about him. He assigns someone (Martin) who he knows is mentally unstable and has a more black and white perception of monsters to track Benny and gets Martin killed. He watches Martin knock Dean unconscious and chain him up in a room and doesn't stop it because he wants Benny dead that bad, but then has the audacity to act as if Dean sending him a fake text is worse than Sam literally chaining him up in a room to prevent Sam from killing an innocent person (someone Sam would normally—btw—defend based on episodes like 2.03 and 4.04 or even a few episodes ago with Kate in "Bitten"). He tells Amelia he wants to fight for their relationship then the moment Dan says they should leave the choice to Amelia, he leaves so that it becomes his choice, and then he returns for one episode just to be a homewrecker. He insists on doing The Trials while promising to survive them and giving a big speech about how he's going to save Dean from his own suicidal ideation and then drops the promise as if it never existed two episodes later. Sam loses confidence in himself to complete The Trials and then acts like Dean is the one who doesn't believe in him because Dean is caring for him and insisting he rest and this is an unforgivable offense. At the end of the season, he basically says he's going to commit suicide because Dean has friends besides him. He acts as if he deserves to be Dean's most trusted confidant after an entire season of him being an absolutely fucking terrible brother and acts like Dean is just a big meanie whose feelings are irrational.

After all of this, he has the audacity, in season 9, to suggest that Dean is a bad person who can't stand the thought of being alone. He tells Dean he's the worst person ever and they can only be work partners from now on because Dean is so so bad and evil for stopping him from committing suicide and then not telling him about Gadreel. At the end of the season he admits this was a lie. He just wanted to punish Dean (9.23).

I can see how—if you were watching live at the time (I started watching when season 11 was airing) you'd lose hope. You'd quit the show over all of this, because it seems to go on forever. It's like torture. I would drop kick season 8 Sam into a pit full of lava without hesitation so I get it. If I believed that Carver was actually saying "Yes so true Dean is The Worst™️ and Sam is morally superior <3" for two seasons straight I'd quit the show too. But that isn't what he's saying. We're supposed to read between the lines and realize how unbelievably full of shit Sam is—how deeply selfish and hypocritical he's being. How yes—Dean has made mistakes—but Sam is NOT a better person than him and has gotten away with some absolutely rancid garbage. And season 10 and 11 go on to beat you over the head with it if you didn't get it the first time.

Season 10 and 11

Season 10 opens with this dialogue from a demon:

I heard the rumors. I said "no, that can't be." A Winchester, one of us? But it's true, isn't it? Whatever soul you had; whatever boy scout code you cuddled up to at night; it's all gone. Leaving what? Look at you!

We're meant to think she's talking about Dean who just woke up with black eyes, but then the camera cuts to Sam torturing her, demanding to know where Dean is.

In 10.03, we learn that Sam talked a man (Lester) into selling his soul so he could use him as bait. Demon Dean ends up being assigned to fulfill Lester's deal (to kill his wife for cheating on him). Dean immediately clocks Lester as having cheated on her first and kills Lester for being an insufferable hypocrite... and while he's doing it, I'm pretty sure he's also thinking of Sam's flaming hypocrisy.

SAM: I never meant— DEMON DEAN: Who cares what you meant?! That line that we thought was so clear between us and the things that we hunted, ain’t so clear is it? Wow. You might actually be worse than me! I mean, you took a guy at his lowest, used him, and it cost him his life and his soul. Nice work.

NOTE: 10.03 also recalls 4.21—an episode Sam fans have always tended to emphasize as a "Dean crime" episode where Dean risks Sam's death to force a detox. Sam does the reverse—pumping Dean full of human blood here in 10.03 and explicitly risking his death.

Sam gets Suzie killed in "The Werther Project" while searching for The Book of the Damned.

SAM I’m sorry, okay? I’m so sorry. SUZIE Lot of good “sorry” does me. Look at me. Look….at….me. [She points to her corpse.] There she is. The first casualty of your misguided mission. But what’s another human life to you? Anything’s worth it, as long as you two make it out alive. And how’s that search going? Any closer to a cure? SAM This isn’t real. You’re not real. SUZIE You think Dean’s the wild card, the loose cannon. But don’t you see? Making deals with witches, opening Pandora’s box down there? You’re the reckless one. You’ll do anything to keep clinging to that doomed brother of yours. How many more will die, Sammy? You know it. You have to be stopped. And the only one who can stop you is you!

A few episodes later, Sam orders Oskar's death for a spell to remove the Mark of Cain. I've seen hilarious posts before about how he had no choice but to do this because MoC Dean is so scawy and bad but that quite explicitly is not his motivation. They could have done so many other things. Throw him into space. Bury him in a really deep hole. Put him in something like The Cage. But Sam didn't like any of those options, because all of them meant being without his brother, and he's realized he doesn't want to be without him no matter the cost (10.18).

SAM So, awhile back, we had a chance to, um…close the gates of Hell. And in order to do that, I would’ve had to die. And, I was okay with that, and I am okay with that, but Dean was not. And so, he uh… CHARLIE He saved you. SAM Yeah, he saved me. CHARLIE And let me guess, in doing so, he did something you didn’t want, and that pissed you off. And you said something that hurt him? SAM Yeah, that sounds about right. [...] SAM You know, when Dean came to get me at school, I-I told myself… one last job, you know? One more job. And then when – when I, um…. When I lost Jess, I, again, told myself one more job. There’s always one more job, you know? And one more job, and one more job, and then I was gonna go back to law and – and to my life. CHARLIE You were the Dread Pirate Roberts of hunting. SAM Yeah. I guess I really understand now that….this is my life. I love it. But I can’t do it without my brother. I don’t want to do it without my brother. And if he’s gone, then I don’t…. CHARLIE I got it. I-I do.

This all culminates in 10.23, where a very mentally unstable MoC Dean attempts to reason with Sam about them both being evil and needing to take themselves out:

DEAN: Remember when we were in that church, making Crowley human, about to close the Gates of Hell? Well, you sure as hell were ready to die for the greater good then. SAM: Yeah, and, Dean, you pulled me back. DEAN: And I was wrong. You were right, Sam. You knew that this world would be better without us in it. SAM: No, no, no, wait a second. You're twisting my words here, Dean. DEAN: Why? Because we -- we track evil and kill it? The family business? Is that it? Look at the tape, Sam. Evil tracks us. And it nukes everything in our vicinity -- our family, our friends. It's time we put a proper name to what we really are and we deal with it. SAM: Wait a second. We are not evil. Listen... We're far from perfect, but we are good. That thing on your arm is evil, but not you, not me. DEAN: I let Rudy die. How was that not evil? I know what I am, Sam. But who were you when you --when you drove that man to sell his soul... Or when you bullied Charlie into getting herself killed? And to what end? A-a good end? A just end? To remove the Mark no matter what the consequences? Sam, how is that not evil? I have this thing on my arm, and you're willing to let the Darkness into the world. SAM: You were also willing to summon death to make sure you could never do any more harm. You summoned me because you knew I would do anything to protect you. That's not evil, Dean. That's not an evil man. That is a good man crying to be heard, searching for... some other way.

Dean is saying a lot of shady shit here, but some of what he's saying... isn't wrong?

Sam is willing to let The Darkness destroy the world, and he does, and then standing in the aftermath of a town being destroyed by the force he unleashed, Sam says:

SAM: I unleashed a force on this world that could destroy it . . . to save you. DEAN: And I told you not to. SAM: And I'd do it again. In a second, I would do it again.

Thousands of people are dying and Sam says he would do it again. This post about Sam's actions versus Dean stopping Sam from closing the gates of hell is highly relevant.

Season 11 continues with Sam taking a little more responsibility for his own decisions, while praying for Dean to live (11.02):

SAM: So . . . I know it's been a long time, but . . . Dean and I, we've -- we've been through a lot of bad. But this is different. This is my fault, and I don't know how to fix it. And if I have to die, I've made my peace with that, but . . . Please. Dean deserves better. Dean deserves a life. There are people out there, good people, who are going to suffer because of me, and I am not asking you to clean up my mess. Hell, I don't even know if you're out there, but . . . If you are . . . And if you can hear me, I, um . . . We need your help, God. We need to know there's hope. We need a sign.

And then there's the VERY long-awaited apology:

SAM When I was with Lucifer, he, um... He showed me things. It was like a highlight reel of my biggest failures. DEAN Yeah, he was messing with you. That's what he does. SAM Give me a sec. I should've looked for you. When you were in Purgatory, I... I should've turned over every stone.

Family (Sam) as chains

While all of this is happening, we also have Benny and Cas and Crowley and Amara.

Benny is contrast—someone whose goodness and selfless loyalty only makes Sam's horrible flaws stand out more sharply in season 8. Under the influence of the specter, Dean says, "Benny has been more of a brother to me this past year than you have ever been" and Sam can't stand it. It haunts him so bad he tries to kill Benny, and can't get over it even after the end of the season when Benny is fucking dead. He is unable to accept that the contrast between himself and Benny is his own fault.

Crowley and Dean's flirtations begin in season 9, as Sam suffocates Dean, and at the end of the season, Crowley has literally convinced Dean to run away with him. In 10.01, there is a delightful phone call where Crowley rubs it in Sam's face that Dean is with HIM:

SAM I don't know how you did this, what kind of... Black-magic stunt you pulled, but hear me --I will save my brother or die trying. CROWLEY You know what tickles me about all this? It's what's really eating you up. You don't care that he's a demon. Heck, you've been a demon. We've all been demons. No, it's that he's with me and he's having the time of his life. You can't stand the fact that he's mine. SAM He's not your pet. CROWLEY My pet? He's my best friend, my partner in crime. They'll write songs about us, graphic novels. “The Misadventures of Growley and Squirrel." Dean Winchester completes me, and that's what makes you lose your chickens.

It's this cruel callback to Sam's jealousy of Benny and Cas in season 8—how Crowley convinced Dean to finally ditch his smothering, controlling brat of little brother who can't stand him having friends, and now Dean is having the time of his life howling at the moon. The problem is, Dean also feels a little bit like maybe Crowley wants to control him too, and that isn't working for him.

Amara in season 11 goes on to further speak on terrible brothers who think they're better than you, who leave you betrayed and diminished, who abandon you. She's raging against the concept of family as chains—she wants revenge... but all the while she's in pain because she still loves her brother. Amara's attraction to Dean is based on that commonality—what she feels is a shared experience and how she wants to cut the last remaining pieces of love she feels for her brother away so she can finally be free of the pain of him—and she doesn't care if she destroys everything—including herself—in the process. (See: Dean slowly losing his identity through the MoC arc). Sam and Dean's relationship is in rehab over this whole season though, and so Dean's role ends up being to convince Amara not to destroy herself—to instead do what Sam and Dean have done and make up and work on improving their relationship.

[spnfanficpond]

June 2024 Angel Fish Awards

(Angel Fish design by @slytherkins!!)

Every month all of you fantastic writers work your asses off to post some truly incredible stories. Our Angel Fish Awards are the way for all of us, as a community of writers and readers, to lift each other up and give praise to those who have captured our attention and deserve a few kind words. (Click here to learn more about how to nominate a fic for an award!)

Nominated by @autisticandroids

The Horror of No Detrimental Redaction by sp8ce (AO3)

Really top tier whump that is also a super attentive cas character study which is also willing to sit with him in a really uncomfortable space

The Trapdoor by hal_incandenza (AO3)

it's an epic rewrite of dabb era with a level of attention to detail that i've rarely seen in any fiction. the metatextual elements are carefully woven in and the character beats feel real. plus, it's an almost episode by episode rewrite and the new monster of the week casefic elements are fresh and fun. also it answers the question what if apocalypse world was good.

finer things by @explainslowly

i think it's maybe the ultimate pinnacle of the deancas triangulation of desire genre. when dean and cas have weird sex via a woman... one of my favorite things. and this is my favorite iteration.

By Your Hand by @restlesshush

this is my favorite relitigation of moriah that i've ever encountered. cas is so crazy in it. you can kind of feel that things will eventually work out without that coming off as cheap. it's perfect

~*~*~

Nominated by @candygrammes

LIMBO by entselene (AO3)

It's the creepiest. angstiest, scariest story I've read this year. Sam wakes up in Sioux Falls Hospital horribly injured, with no idea what happened. Not only that, but Dean is nowhere to be seen. Why? Has Dean abandoned him?

Nominated by @charliethealpaccaso

Strange Encounters by deanandsam (Ao3)

I loved the idea that there are dog versions of dean and sam along side the main sam and dean that I found it cute but also opened up a whole side story I wish there was more of.

Dogs Don't Pay Taxes by Zetal (Rodinia) (AO3)

There oddly is a huge lack of dog!sam fics on A03 that I love to try and spread the word of the ones that are out there. This one was cute both prompt wise and just made my day when I came across it

Faithful Companion by brokenlittleboy (AO3)

What if during season two Sam developed a whole new issue with his psychic powers and turned himself into a dog then this is the fic for you. Dean does mess around with him in this fic but I think it was a fun and interesting read for the concept

~*~*~

Nominated by @glygriffe

Why’s every song is about love (or drinking too much) by @quietwings-fics

They didn't give us enough Sam and Castiel scenes in the show. Here's a bitter-sweet one between the two of them, talking about Dean and the whole 'unrequited love' thing. A ficlet the gives a Destiel fan just the right amount of heavy heart.

It’s the Stars that Lie by @seperis

Ok, this fic doesn't need recommandations, but it's still needs public praises. To fully appreciate it, you need to read the fever dream that is Map of the World first, but I love how the author builds on the glimpses that the episode The End gave of the apocalypse!world. The OCs are interesting (and many of them are POC), and the lovely slow burn between Dean and Castiel is spiced up with the fake boyfriends trope.

Since I've Been Loving You - Remaster by tgel210 (AO3)

I like Castiel's first-person POV, Dean being a musician without being a rock star: it feels close to home like my next-door neighbor is talking to me about the love of his life.

Closer than they appear by sunkenfox (AO3)

Dean and Castiel figuring out what their life could be together by looking at Misha and Jensen is interesting. Even more interesting is the concept that like it or not, the Supernatural characters would not exist in their world without the writers and the actors in an other world. That Dean and Jenses share more than a face; same for Misha and Castiel (even if the difference are more obvious between the last two). A story of discorvery on a meta level, hiding inside a cute Destiel and RPF romance.

he feels no control of his body by withthekeyisking (AO3)

A wonderful but sad exploration of Sam Winchester throughout his life; from his lack of bodily autonomy to his dying faith in god(s) and humanity. With just enough brotherly love to leave the reader aching from loss and something like betrayal. (I love Dean, but he his a royal dick to his brother sometimes)

~*~*~

Nominated by @handsliketruth

evergreen endless by @whiskeyjuniper

A glimpse of endverse!Dean and Castiel during the earliest days of The End, via Chuck (prophet? god? something in-between?) as he continues to chart their story...and struggles to keep them from their inevitable collision despite their wildly infuriating pattern of falling into it... (full disclosure, this one was a gift for me, but I would rec this anyway 💛 dark, spicy, funny, clever meta fun)

But I Ain't Dead Yet by @bloodydeanwinchester

I cannot wait to see how this one plays out! Clever and charming with a fun hook: what if s4 Dean and Cas time-traveled back to 1x12 Faith to save Layla? (I would read a million words of Dean watching faith!Dean and Castiel get along ����)

~*~*~

Nominated by @heavenssexiestangel

Bad Day Love by @spn-fanfic-reblog-writes

it's a cute pick-me-up story with one of my favorite ships. I really like how Arthur is so soft with Dean here.

Bedtime Routine by @spn-fanfic-reblog-writes

It's another rareship of mine andI love how they care for each other here and take care of Emma.

The Fool's Journey by @ladyknightskye

I know I was the artist for this story but - what Meg wrote for my art is awesome and it features one of my favorite characters - Gadreel. The journey he has in this fic is extremely important

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Nominated by @jinkieswouldyoulookatthis

Presence by @ani-coolgirl

This story broke my heart in the absolute most beautiful way. It's sad and sweet and doomed and it haunts me still.

~*~*~

Nominated by @mariekoukie6661

Stitches by @kittenofdoomage

Its cute! I like it!

Sweet Little Lies by @impala-dreamer

I like how funny it was despite all the angst!!

~*~*~

Nominated by @masoena

Nothing Ever Really Ends by @nyxocity

Beautiful heaven fic with Sam and Dean, bring tissues, post S15E20

In Silence Sealed by @fiercelynormal

Dean loses his hearing but starts talking his thoughts out loud beautifully written Smitty short

Love, Your Brother by @eninkahootz

Sam and Dean communicating by letters btw heaven and earth post-series. Work in progress and so well written

~*~*~

Nominated by @mrswhozeewhatsis

Cretaceous by tiamatv (AO3)

This is a cute, fluffy romp through Jurassic Park as a Destiel fic! You don't have to love dinos to love this fic, but I imagine it would make it even better. If you're looking for something sweet and light to read before bed, this is the bedtime story for you!

~*~*~

Nominated by @rainythursdaynight

Clean Air by @anactorya

I read this story when I was maybe 16 and re-read it twice or three times in the year after. That being said, I can remember it almost excruciatingly well. I'm a post-apocalypse gal and I crave anything in that genre, so it was doubtless that I'd love this story. But the world-building done in this story? The characterization? The tension it manages to build? It's so gripping and exciting and I remember reading it worried out of my mind for the characters and exhaling the deepest breath as the story drew to a close. It's a not too dense read and an enveloping one, you'll forget you're above ground by the end of it!

Empty Spaces by @schmerzerling

This story made me fall in love with writing again. It's so heavy with how it distributes emotion in its words, but also so soothing too. This reads like watching a glass vase get tipped over the edge of a table and, maybe distantly, wondering if someone will catch it in time. But it doesn't quite matter because the flowers are beautiful and if you're crying then it's about the flowers and not the vase. I highly recommend this story to everyone, heavy as its contents may be. I felt safe reading this, I ached, I adore this story beyond words can capture.

Phantasma! by @thisisapaige

I very rarely read things that are horror inclined (funny as that is given the nature of Spn), and maybe this story is not considered horror either, but it left me just on that edge of eerie and it was exhilarating. Most of the story is sweet, and cathartic, as Dean rebuilds his life outside of his family and finds that in Castiel. But the mystery of it all, the unknown, it left me waiting for the other shoe to drop and this writer was excellent at making that payoff worth it.

The Art of Falling by @zipegs

This story was gritty and ugly and didn't pull back punches when it came to its emotional weight. Recovery is a nightmarish process of relapse and pain and relief and this story embodied this with its characters beautifully. This story was lonely, in the sense that its only two characters yes but it also felt a lot like reading about two characters pitted against the backdrop of everything. The world, the universe, existence. It made me feel small but so vast at the same time, and it was so utterly human (funny given the context of the story). It's a short and beautiful read that left me aching but in a way that was comforting as opposed to alienating.

With The End Came You by @lotrspnfangirl

I adore zombie apoclaypse AUs but so few of them focus on the characters' growth alongside the events of the series. And so few of them do side characters justice. This story was THE exception. Not only does the progression of the characters not sideline the plot and vice versa, but the story handles people so so well. You have those that stick around for long, and those that don't, and it treats both parties so faithfully that I'm left emotional over side characters I've only had a page worth of content with as much as the main characters I'm with the entire time. This is a zombie apocalypse AU that puts people first and foremost, and its so human and such a rewarding story to those that have even the smallest interest in these types of AUs. And the progression of the plot is so smooth and natural, TWD could never (and I love that show so take with that as you will).

~*~*~

Nominated by @samanddean76

Dark As Midnight (And You Don’t Look The Same) by @kassyscarlett

This is a story that follows a young Dean (17 years-old) out looking for a good time and running into an older man that gives what he wants. Not realizing he knows him, that he is in fact his Sammy. This story is so good! Time-travel, the follies of youth, needing to be protected from yourself, and realizing years later what that random encounter really was. It is part of a series, but works as a stand alone. But the entire series is worth checking out.

Coming Out Of The Dark by firesign10 (AO3)

It's a story about others helping one they know is broken, giving him what he needs so he can move on and live the rest of his life. The Richesters visit Sam in the bunker after Dean's death, and give him one final night together, so that he might carry on. It tragic and beautiful and has all the feels. Highly recommend.

~*~*~

Nominated by @spn-fanfic-reblog-writes

Interspecies Romance and Its Associated Perils by suspiciousflashlight (AO3)

I have read this story many, many times. It’s adorable and hilarious. It’s cute and awkward in a way that someone who isn’t sure how to tell about a weird scar or birthmark is. The ending is the best part of the entire thing.

A Helping Hand and Thrilling Touches by mydestielbabies_67 (AO3)

I don’t normally nominate smut but this was just amazing. It was beautiful, and what and intense.

The Cherry Pie Club by zation (AO3)

This is a work in progress. It’s great! Zariah is such a great writer in so many genres. This one is about Dean exploring bdsm for the first time and ends up also realizing things about himself too. Poor Dean learns the hard way that it is Cas he loves about bdsm but still. Their connection and energy with each other is felt as you read. Highly recommend reading!

Absolute Beginners by @ahurston

Chapter 5 made me scream then go feral and foam at the mouth.

Dancing moves by faithlesshunter (AO3)

I am not normally one to read infidelity fics; however, this is destiel. It’s the holidays and Cas and Dean get left alone to reconnect. They tried to be a couple at the beginning once Cas came back from the Empty but they weren’t ready for it. Now, years later and they are! The confessions and the hot smut is just so exacting for them. It’s gorgeous! Dean has always loved Cas and Cas still loves Dean. Oh, I’d love to see how it works out but this reconnection is just purely intense and the dopamine is addictive. Good luck. MUST READ!

The Case of Dean and Castiel's Extremely Resolvable Tension by CanonFodder (Tartan_Temptation) (AO3)

This is hilarious and hot AF! It starts out explaining the premise and drives right into it where Dean finally gives in. He is so happy he does too. He gets a wonderfully deserving reward. Poor Sam and his need for eye bleach. Lol!

Objects May Appear Smaller by @valandrawrites

The instant connection of Cas and Dean, and the science of this story makes this a one-of-a-kind a/b/o. Despite it being incomplete, it’s such a fluffy and fascinating read. It keeps you wanting more with every one of the six chapters. I hope one day they get inspired to write more.

Sentinel by Followsthebees (AO3)

I love this story. I love that it’s a different take on Castiel—he’s a gargoyle. It’s such a fascinating story and their connect is seen by the readers but not Dean. It’s interesting how Dean starts to notice and how intense and romantic it gets. Sex and flying are fascinating, man. This is written oh so well!

Three's Company by @luci-in-trenchcoats

Cas x f!Reader that becomes Cas x f!reader x Dean. It shows a very healthy ethical non-monogamy relationship. I love how the Reader initially freaks, I think, and when Cas and them come to talk to Dean, he freaks too. Everyone is patient with each other though. It’s as it should be when introducing polyamory to non-poly experience people. It’s so sweet and wonderful to read. It’s adorable. This is how poly fics should be.

Ketch and Release by NichePastiche (AO3)

Oh, the fluff and growth! I love this series so so so so much! I always get excited when I see they wrote more. ❤️❤️❤️❤️

~*~*~

Nominated by @spnbabe67

Finish What You Started by @dean-winchester-is-a-warrior

I love the tension that melts into silly goofiness.

Spin Cycle by @winchester-girl67

I usually don't do a lot of fluff but I loved the way the writer did this one.

~*~*~

Nominated by @thoughtslikeaminefield

Take A Shot by @rizlowwritessortof

It's just so sexy and Dean. Guh.

Rest by @zepskies

It's swoony and cozy and melancholy, and I love that for us.

The Iceman Cometh by @talltalesandbedtimestories

Ice play is one of my favorite things. Pair that with Dean Winchester, written by Sandra, and, well, you've got a winner.

Damned If I Do by @zepskies

I liked Lisa and Ben, and this is a very satisfying way to show that!

~*~*~

Nominated by @whiskeyjuniper

Truth & Despair by @shallowseeker

It's so compelling, every time a new chapter is posted I'm so excited to see what happens next. Also it's Shal's first fic and they're almost done with it so I wanted to celebrate it :)

(Divider by @glygriffe)

THANK YOU ALL, KEEP UP THE AMAZING WORK, AND AS ALWAYS, HAPPY WRITING!

- From your Admins and Manta Rays, @manawhaat, @mrswhozeewhatsis, @mariekoukie6661, @thoughtslikeaminefield, and @heavenssexiestangel!

[castiellesbian]

some jumbled thoughts about the writers. I actually like Dabb's writing for young Sam at least, it's part of what makes Dark Side of the Moon great, and it makes The Girl Next Door and After School Special salvageable. Sera Gamble is a great writer, one of the best in the show, but unfortunately she wasn't a very good showrunner (though i do think some of it was more because of external forces and/or misogyny...). same with carver: very good standalone episodes, not terribly great at overarching plots. it's a common misconception that kripke had everything planned out and that's what makes 1-5 good, BUT i do think he was good at recognizing story beats over a longer period of time and seeing when something wasn't working and knowing how to scrap it without it feeling too obvious. dabb era... has it's issues. but i did appreciate how he tried to do something different than the seasons before by bringing back mary, introducing jack (cas really did need his own storyline), and leaning more into the ensemble cast (<-that's something that really hurt gamble since she just killed them off lol). buckleming admittedly are not the worst at characterization, they just are bad at writing in almost every other respect so it's hard to enjoy it lol. like yeah dean telling chuck being a killer is "not who i am" is great, but i also had to hear mark pellegrino yell "cuck" three times. so. also i genuinely think fans forget about meredith glynn more than she deserves, she was a solid later seasons writer!! not perfect but when she hits, she hits.

[mybrainproblems]

can you expand on what you mean about 12x22 and berens? i’ve never really looked at the writer patterns before but i’m intrigued

so jensen did a solo panel at JIB 8 in 2017 and an earlier question prompted him to recount his experience having difficulty connecting with the mary & dean relationship in s12 and the character motivation behind it. (and i think he's correct in saying that fans picked up on him not gelling with it which actually works in some episodes but feels off in others.)

anyway! berens was on-set when they were filming 12x22 "who we are" and jensen told him "oh god i get it now!" with the "i hate you, i forgive you" speech (that dean's character arc was him needing to forgive mary) and berens had no idea what he was talking about.

hopefully this embedded correctly to start at the right time code, but if not, he starts talking about it at 19:45

which yes, there's the possibility that berens was just yanking jensen's chain* about not realizing the "i hate you, i forgive you" was the thesis of mary & dean's relationship arc in s12. but also i really am inclined to believe he didn't realize he'd tied up the whole arc bc berens has been such a chronic dean misunderstander over the years. like folks will talk about dean as the "angry man" in late seasons and... that's mostly berens, baby!**

and i know you didn't ask but this is why the confession falls so flat for me. it rings hollow bc this is the writer who has done more than anyone else in the last few seasons to make dean an un-likeable prick. i do like the confession as a radical act of self-love (that "having" doesn't matter and "being" is more important) but as cas confessing his love to dean? yeah, i just can't buy it given the other stuff berens wrote over the years and the narrative framing is just off. much like the finale, it's tragedy wearing an ill-fitting ballgown and looking in a fun house mirror.

so, in summary (x)

* this is a bit unkind, but jensen is such a consummate pro that i would not be surprised if the "maybe he was yanking my chain" was a way to save face for berens since jensen has disagreed with him on his episodes before.

** i did not jive with 14x20 "moriah" until i re-watched it without the baggage of 14x18 before it (14x19 isn't great but does set up the "logic" of dean's actions in 14x20; never 5get that cas wanted to put jack in the cage... how is that different from a ma'lak box?). i think berens was just not a good fit for spn and especially not the direction they were going in during dabb era. i'm not a big fan of him in carver era either but he fit the vibes and direction way better.

[deancasforcutie]

3 years later I'm still lying awake at night about this knowing someday other high-profile examples of censorship will be exposed

but little did I know I was writing this post the same time they were running the only other recent example I've heard of where writers of a general-audience network show saw potential in a serendipitous queer slowburn fans recognized, but this time not facing resistance and illustrating how differently the press cycle goes for an uncensored show, making that silence we endured scream all the louder

@charcubed still putting this skillfully:

One of many things that keep me up at night about the network fuckery: how many other shows are/would be subject to these same kinds of homophobic restrictions, but we would never know because they didn’t try to push back? How many other shows accused of queerbaiting were actually silenced?

[teamfreewill2pointo]

I still don’t get why neither of J2 are as firm as Misha when talking about the confession scene. They know the intent, they know how meaningful it is to Misha and a lot of fans, canon says Castiel is queer. Why won’t they say it?

First, queer Castiel exists independently from that scene.

But to answer your question: Supernatural was made by multiple people and Berens and Misha weren't the only people involved in crafting that scene. If TPTB wanted it to be unambiguously romantic, they would've done so. One thing I appreciate about J2 is that they never queerbait and, while they respect all of our ships, they also talk about the show the way that it actually was. When they talk about that scene as "open to interpretation" they are talking about how it was produced; beyond the writing or the acting.

J2 didn't create "open to interpretation" they are merely reflecting the views that were created by those in charge. If Dabb and Singer return for the reboot, J2 now have the power to make Castiel's side unambiguously romantic, but they didn't back then.

If that's something they want to do, then they will do it. Perhaps they think that open to interpretation is more inclusive to fans, because it allows different people to see themselves and their relationships in the show.

[thedragonagebigbang]

Bang Creator Interview: Tumblr: @thraaaaaaaanduuuuuuuuiiiiiiiiil  |  AO3: chissprincess

The Collaboration period has begun! In these quiet months before works are due, we want to foster a sense of excitement, camaraderie, and celebration among our participants. To that end, all participants were given the option of a formal interview by our mod, Dema, or an informal “ask-game” survey. We hope you enjoy getting to know our phenomenal creators as much as we have!

ONE WEIRD TRICK FOR MAKING FRIENDS IN THEDAS

Vowelthranduil and Dema talk about that OTHER dragon media, early fandom experiences (fantheater, anyone?), and the supremacy of the Reluctant Hero trope

Dema: So! The collaboration period just began. Has this given you a fresh burst of energy for your fic?

vowelthranduil: It's definitely made me think more about my fic. The timing has been weird though because unfortunately, someone over on the House of the Dragon team also made the decision to cast Ewan Mitchell as Aemond and then made the further decision to allow the man to speak entire sentences in High Valyrian a few weeks ago. Up until that moment I was an entirely casual Game of Thrones/House of the Dragon fan but when that scene happened I could literally feel the casual leaving my body. So good news, I'm definitely in fic writing mode and thinking about fics and that includes my DABB fic! Bad news, it also includes like 3 House of the Dragon fics. My poor poor brain lol.

Dema: Hey. Momentum is momentum 😂For a long fic like this, do you have a full outline, or are you being guided by Vibes?

vowelthranduil: For this particular fic I do have a bit of an outline. There's a timeline I'm following of my character's life that I'm trying to follow. But to be honest a lot of it is also Vibes. I definitely don't look at the timeline or any kind of outline as set in stone. I'll change things as needed or if I feel like I have a better idea or if I feel like something just isn't working out. The nice thing about this fic is I know where my ending point is, which is something I often struggle with in my other longfics.

Dema:  Especially when your attention is divided between two very different fandoms, how do you get in the zone for this fic? Or are you allowing some of that HotD inspiration to infiltrate your DA fic?

vowelthranduil: Nah HotD and DA, despite both involving dragons, are very much in Never the Twain Shall Meet territory. Music is a big thing for me, in any of my fics. I have entire playlists for my HotD fics and my other DA fic. I don't really have a set playlist for this one, but I have lots of music that gives the proper vibes and is already sorted into some other easily accessible playlist so I can just bring that up. Or I'll go back and read what I already have, look at some of the art I have of my OC, or even just do a little DA-based research. I don't have the time to get into a full DAI playthrough right now or I would do that too.

Dema:  Have you done a Big Bang before or is this your first?

vowelthranduil: I've done smaller bangs, and I did try to do the WIP Big Bang a couple of years ago, but I couldn't keep up with it between school and mental health issues. I'm not in school now though. I work, but not having homework is super helpful. I come home and have time to do other stuff instead. Like, you know, write fics for Big Bangs mwahahaha

Dema: Do you try to set aside specific time to write?

vowelthranduil: I have tried in the past but I'm definitely not organized enough for that. Plus when something inevitably happens and I don't write at the appointed time or don't write for the appointed amount of time, I just feel guilty, and guilt is the inspiration and motivation killer.

Dema:  Is there anything that reliably creates a writing-mood? Or do you find the muse strikes randomly?

vowelthranduil: It can be pretty random I find. New music will sometimes do it, but unfortunately, there's no guarantee that the new music will be in any way helpful with creating the muse for a particular project so I can't rely on that. I can sometimes use music I already have to trigger the muse when I sit down to write but like...the general "I want to write now" feeling has to already be there. Otherwise it just turns into a long daydream session and I can lose a whole day to that easily without ever writing a single word if I'm not careful.

Dema:  How long have you been writing, fanfic or otherwise? Have you always been a writer?

vowelthranduil: I mean I can definitely remember writing as a kid, doing creative writing projects in school and stuff. I didn't really like it very much because I felt really confined. Like I remember this one time in Catholic school we were writing stories and I wanted to write something with a lot of magic but this was Catholic school, so I didn't dare do that, I had to turn it into something that would be acceptable to the teachers there. So I felt really stifled. I didn't even find out about fanfiction until I was about 14 or 15, when we finally got internet at my house (and this would have been around...like the late 90s in a pretty rural area). I was in the Star Wars fandom at the time, though of course I wouldn't have described it that way because I had never heard the term "fandom" before and didn't really have access to a broader fan community outside of my immediate friend group (for anything, not just Star Wars). But yeah once we got the internet I found fanfiction pretty quickly. I don't remember how exactly. But it was really cool and to be honest, it was something I was already doing sort of. You know how kids invent their own stories to play out alone or with their friends, that kind of thing. And I had been reading the Star Wars novels at the time, and I wrote these really corny plays that my friends and I actually performed. So I guess it depends on how exactly you want to define "fanfiction." If we go by a strict definition of a story, then the first one was probably when I was 14/15 after I found my first fics on the internet, and it was a self-insert fic of the most obvious caliber. If we include those plays, then a little early, around 13. If we go by the first ones I shared online....probably 16/17? But I legit don't remember for sure on that. And I've been doing academic writing for ages, like all of my degrees are in the humanities and social sciences, really writing-heavy fields, so I legit don't remember a time except my very young years when I haven't been writing SOMETHING regularly. (Hey look at that, I wrote you a novel.)

Dema:  I want to know more about these plays. That is SO cute and so lovely.

vowelthranduil: Oh god. They were like…I'm trying to even remember anything at all about them right now lol

Dema:  What part did you play? Do you remember that?

vowelthranduil: I think I legit wrote them with all of my friends in mind as the characters. Like I was the bounty hunter who was originally working for the Empire (and I was a Falleen, not human, so I was basically covered in green face paint) and....I was hunting Luke Skywalker for some reason. Because this is Star Wars so like, of course. And my best friend/boyfriend (look I wrote a trilogy and we started dating somewhere in this timeline lol) played Luke and wouldn't you know it but my character married Luke somewhere in all of this/ Oh and we defeated the Empire I'm pretty sure. Because...of course we did?

Dema: Incredible. I love it

vowelthranduil: Oh I wrote a play based on a Midsummer Night's Dream at one point too. God when was that? Must have been around the same time.

Dema:  A Star Wars play??

vowelthranduil:  No, this was straight Shakespeare fanfiction

Dema:  Oh, even better

vowelthranduil: We made sets out of cardboard boxes and stuff it was truly wild

Dema: I am delighted. When did you get involved with the DA fandom?

vowelthranduil: I THINK it was around the time DA2 came out? I'm actually not 100% sure except that I know DAI was nowhere near out yet. Like I don't even think it was a rumor. I had a friend who played DAO and was always talking about it and how great the romances were and stuff. I really wanted to play but I was super nervous because up until then I had only ever really played the Sims and like, Oregon Trail (the super old-school one and also Oregon Trail 2 I think). And of course DAO was kind of expensive so I was really nervous to spend the money on something I might hate, especially since I had tried Skyrim and not really gotten into it. But then it went on sale for like $5 around Black Friday (but also that low price is what makes me think this was proooooooooobably right before the DA2 release) so I decided I could take the chance for $5. It's either the best $5 I ever spent or definitely in the top 10 of best $5 I've ever spent.

Dema:  Do you have a favorite game in the franchise?

vowelthranduil: Oh DAI definitely. I'm really attached to my Lavellan.

Dema:  Is it the character-driven plot that made these games feel different than games like Skyrim? I do think it's so interesting how you're very multi-fandom but DA is the only game-fandom you've mentioned.

vowelthranduil: Yeah I don't really know what it is either. Some things just really grab me sometimes but I'm never entirely sure why. Like I've always been really into Star Wars but I never got into Star Trek. I enjoy some of the other big sci-fi franchises like Battlestar Galactica but I wouldn't say I'm "in the fandom." Until very recently the big book/movie/TV-show-based fantasy fandom was Tolkien. I've always kind of assumed that was a right-place-right-time kind of situation, i.e. my first real exposure to it was the Peter Jackson movie in 2001 and it just kind of hit me at juuuuuuuuuuuuust the right point in my life to become a part of me or something. What the hell was it about Ewan Mitchell speaking a few lines of a conlang that dragged me out of 13 years of being a casual into joining the HotD/GoT fandom? Damned if I know. So yeah, I'm not entirely sure what it is about Dragon Age that gets me vs. other games that by all accounts feel like they should be similar. Maybe it's that there's something relatable about them for me? I'm not really sure, kind of thinking out loud here as it were. But like in DAO I think it's kind of easy to relate to someone like Alistair, right? Like he's a nice, kind of goofy guy trying to find his way in the world. In DA2 we've got some real, recognizable struggles happening, and sure they're couched in these very fantasy tropes of "magic" and "elves" but a lot of the basic ideas are very real-world. I suppose in DAI there's something very similar to what's going on in LotR, where you've got some poor unsuspecting little guy who just kind of gets chucked into events whether they want to be there or not but then they get to choose over and over to do the right thing, perhaps even at their own expense, and save everyone in the process. It's an entirely thankless task for them and the world is never going to remember them properly (as we find out in Jaws of Hakkon -- rather painfully if you're playing a Lavellan imo) but someone has to do it and it might as well be you. Er, them....You know what I mean.

Dema:  Yeah! And I get what you mean. Timing has such a big impact and it's fascinating how some media clicks and others don't. Alright we're down to the wire here so if you've read the other interviews, I think you know what I'm about to ask 😂Do you have a misleading clickbait title for your bang fic you could share with me?

Vowelthranduil: lol omg

Dema:  Without giving anything major away that would identify your pitch lol

vowelthranduil: So coming up with titles is literally the worst, hardest, and least-favorite part of writing fics for me. I currently have a doc titled "absolutely the most bizarre fic concept I have ever had" and it's literally just...a romance fic with a slightly odd pairing lol

Dema:  Well. You definitely do not HAVE to do this lol

vowelthranduil: So for this one I guess I might go with something like ONE WEIRD TRICK FOR MAKING FRIENDS IN THEDAS

Dema: Perfect! I don't think we have a one weird trick yet! I honestly love "absolutely the most bizarre fic concept I have ever had," that made me laugh. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today!vowelthranduil: Yeah thanks for interviewing me!

[dotthings]

More and more Destiel shippers are figuring it out. You know that thing some of us have been trying to get people to understand for years. This wasn't all of a sudden just now. It's been growing more and more evident for years and we've been pointing it out for years.

Maybe now more people will understand what Jensen fans in the Destiel lane have been trying to say. All this time.

Huh gee you think maybe while spn was running and it was under a completely different corporate structure and corporate entities that Jensen didn't feel as free to show his support as openly, yet even then, Jensen showed his support plenty and people just didn't want to listen. And it wasn't just anti-Destiels it was Destiel shippers too. Who closed their eyes to Jensen's allyship towards fans, but also to his actual support for Destiel as part of the story. While having to maintain the company line oh it's just a fandom thing, no queer coding, no canon here shhhhh.

Nothing about this should be a surprise. It is refreshing though, to see this more open era of spn unfold.

Maybe people will understand now the tightrope wire Jensen had to walk while spn was running.

What's he going to do now, fire himself?

Some people are going to keep clinging to old narratives. Some will do it because of Dabb era and now they're mad at Cas and they disliked the DeanCas emotional dynamics of Dabb era so they grab onto things as a lifeline to tell themselves Destiel can never happen now, which isn't for phobic reasons. They feel the way they feel. Protecting themselves emotionally.

Some will do it on mild heteronormative biases, might be dislodged, Jensen's openness might have a positive impact there, in Jensen's lane particularly.

Some will still do it on more openly hostile phobic motivations and use dog whistles (and that comes from a few Jensen stans and from brosonlies).

Turning up the flame slowly makes a lot of sense when you think of the volatile history of this fanbase over Destiel.

And people don't have to ship Destiel. This has nothing to do with whether people ship Destiel or not. I could care less if people ship Destiel or not. It's about not treating Destiel like a disease, a blight, a show ruining, fandom ruining monster.

It's part of the story, it's part of the fandom, it's part of the spn universe. Antis can scream and yell against it and cling to old outdated narratives as their last outpost all they want.

It's not going to stop what's happening. Things are not going to go backwards.

This is just a warm-up.

[ardentpoop]

sometimes you guys don’t hate dabb and thompson enough lol. they knew what they were doing; some of those cut bits (and plenty of little bits that actually made it to the screen) were pretty clearly intentional ship bait. did they ever take it seriously/was it ever truly important to the story being told? nope! were certain lines written to be just weighty enough to please the intense shippers while ambiguous enough to not Offend The Sensibilities of the rest of the audience? yes.

also certain bits (like the “I love you” that was cut from that already cringe as hell scene in “goodbye stranger”) were only cut because jensen was like FUCK no. like thompson especially looooved to get his sick jollies out of baiting that part of the audience lmfao. of course he’d insist while doing it that it was meant to be “familial” lol that was part of the stupid little game these guys were playing.

I don’t like berens catching strays in this post because he was by no means the worst of the d*stiel baiters and on top of that he was a far more competent character writer in general than either thompson (embarrassing) or dabb (arguably even more embarrassing). genuinely one of the standouts in terms of the late-seasons writers put some respect on his name <3

anyway I know we really dislike this ship around these parts for many good reasons but come on. we can be more honest about the fan/writer collaboration on it than this.

[eisforeidolon]

Tumblr shows me such horrendous posts sometimes especially from tags like #dean winchester People genuinely with their whole chest think that he could have been saved from that rebar with a first aid kit 😂(even though he obviously couldn't plus they didn't have gods power anymore) and also thinking he gave up lol as if he hasn't said all along how he knew he'd die a hunter, wanted Sam to have a peaceful life & him dying first was best case scenario. They never listen to Dean the show or Jensen

Oof, yeah. It's been ages since I braved the main tags because - at least on tumblr - this fandom is a trashfire of bizarre and ignorant opinions. Like, just as a thought exercise, let's give the maximum benefit of the doubt possible.

I can see, to an extent, why after the light fantasy irreverence of the Dabb years, someone might be wishfully tempted to forget SPN's horror roots and think the Winchesters might not die at the end. Except Jared and Jensen made it pretty clear every time they talked about the ending that they saw the Winchesters dead at the end, one way or another. Except even when we were full on in the hunting-is-a-lark and constant resurrect-o-rama of Dabbernatural, it was still a show that revolved around monsters and death almost as much as it did the brothers' relationship. Except how do you even end a show where the characters constantly bring each other back from the dead in a way that feels significantly final other than them accepting death?

I can see, to an extent, why there would be some confusion over the severity of injuries, because the show never took them as serious as they would be IRL, Chuck or no Chuck. TV in general is pretty terrible about that. Except as much as I loathe the concept of the Winchesters only being competent and surviving because of Chuck, it was a thing in the show. Except we're talking about being stabbed fully through the main body cavity where there are a lot of pretty vital things you can't live with shish-kebabed. Even if it would have been possible to survive that injury IRL as some kind of medical miracle, it would definitely require medical professionals for him to survive getting off that rebar and they were in a barn in the middle of freakin' nowhere - being realistic is not "giving up". Except we're talking about a fictional character where the entire point was that the writers had decided Dean was going to die then, so it was a fatal injury because it was written as fatal. Except I think it's pretty obvious some fans only wanted Sam rushing around trying to do first aid to avoid 7 minutes of incest Dean's speech showing Sam was still the most important person in Dean's life to the end and he was perfectly capable of saying I love you - despite their reams upon reams of meta claiming otherwise.

I am not in any way saying anybody needs to be happy that Dean died, or even needs like the finale. I actually agree Dean's lack of self-worth and fatalism about how he'd inevitably die fighting monsters relatively young (especially when he said that in a particularly low moment) aren't good things, so him being ultimately right is actually really fucking sad. As is Sam getting the normal life he once wanted when IMO he no longer particularly wants it and it's at the expense of losing Dean after all they'd been through together. Disappointment, even disappointment one should reasonably have seen coming, is totally fair. The ending is meant to be bittersweet with the sweet part coming from the heaven reunion, and even dismissing delusional shippers? Not everybody is going to like that kind of ending. Except there's disappointment and then there's being really fucking weird about that disappointment by insisting a tv show owed you to end the way you wanted and further, it personally wronged you because no one tried to put a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. Also, a character dying from doing something dangerous and acknowledging they are dying when they get a fatal wound doing it instead of trying to insist they're okay is ... endorsing suicidal themes.

[orionsangel86]

I think that joke/dream trope can be used as an attempt to keep a foot in both camps. From the one hand we have fans who want to see friends or ace azicrow, from the other there’re fans who are craving for more prominent representation. I kinda doubt that Neil will risk to choose side after all that time he spent dodging the subject like a plague

Again I gotta stress here that Neil Gaiman is NOT Andrew Dabb, Erik Kripke, Bob Singer, Buckleming, Jeremy Carver, or Sera Gamble. Neil Gaiman is not a homophobic CW executive, and Amazon Prime is NOT the CW either and unlike the CW actually seems to be seeking out progressive queer content (even if it is run by an evil stereotypical Bond villain) instead of cancelling it.

This is NOT Supernatural. This is NOT Destiel. There is no "both sides" in Good Omens. Asexual people can still kiss each other! When did this concept that ace people NEVER even KISS become a thing?!? Kissing isn't sex people come on. As for people who only see AziraCrow as friends, well, Neil would have disappointed them after season 1 with his insistance that it was a love story.

Also Neil never dodged the subject like the plague, he just didn't want to reveal spoilers. He has always insisted that they loved each other and it was a love story. He wouldn't confirm that they were gay men, because he doesn't view AziraCrow as men. They are an angel and a demon, and they are in love. This is something he has been very clear on. So I don't get the concern. It's always been obvious to me, even before the spoiler, that were Good Omens to continue past season 1, that they would progress AziraCrow's relationship into more overt territory. It was only my OWN Spn trauma which ever caused me to doubt this, but I refuse to doubt what I see with my own eyes, because that is what SPN tried to do to me.

It's actually really eye opening how much of a number Supernatural did on fandom. How many people are so unwilling to accept what is right in front of their eyes because of the trauma and gaslighting we suffered from that horrible awful homophobic shit show. I saw the same sort of response when OFMD first came out, and how even WITH the kiss scene there were still fans wondering if the kiss was photoshopped before they watched the actual show. It's really sad, and I wish that the SPN creators could be shown the damage they have caused to the psyche of so many queer fans all around the world. Don't let your SPN trauma affect your excitement over new queer shows, we can't always be tormented by SPN.

[scoobydoodean]

I was wondering if you, as a Dean fan have opinions about the different writers? Mostly because I see a lot of Dean fans really strongly dislike Dabb for some reason and I don’t really understand why. I’ve never seen a concrete explanation beyond “he can’t write Dean/doesn’t understand Dean/actively hates Dean” but with no examples as to what he does that’s so bad. And I see this in every shipping lane. I don’t have a strong opinion about him as a writer one way or the other.

I'm exploring this more as I rewatch the show (currently on season 6) so I'll speak mainly from that perspective on my most recent thoughts. I am not a big fan of Dabb or Loflin, but have tried to be fair about things so far when talking through each episode. I am a fan of "Alpha and Omega"—it's my favorite finale (it's also... a finale for a season Carver started as showrunner? So I don't know what the implications are there as far as storyboarding). Also points for having demon Dean stab a guy through in 10.02.

I'll focus on the negatives you asked about in this post, but in the links you'll find me moving the narrative this way and that toward much more charitable readings... I think. (I do have a tag #dabb disk horse which you can either peruse or blacklist at your leisure). What I can tell you is something almost always strikes me as a off about Dabb/Loflin episodes so far in this rewatch in terms of character work.

Dabb/Loflin's first ever episode was 4.06 "Yellow Fever". In the aftermath, Kripke felt the need to release a definitive interpretation of their episode to the public, stating, "Dean is not a dick... he's a hero." The whole episode toyed with, to an extent, the idea that all the victims of the MotW were bullies. You can take this other directions—for example, queer meta, or meta about Sam as the real bully. However, the story a lot of fandom latched onto was that "Dean is a jerk and deserves to be humiliated and punished for that" which obviously didn't make Dean fans watching live in season 4 happy—and this theme of Jerk!Dean continues into their next episode, "After School Special", where they once again parallel Dean with a bully literally nicknamed "Dirk the Jerk" by Sam, and throw what I think is transparent shade at Kripke's issued statement from before the Christmas break (post here)... or maybe they mean to throw shade at the Dean fans who got angry. In this episode, they also make illusions to Dean wanting to have sex with barely legal high school cheerleaders, which also did not ingratiate them to Deanfans at the time. I said on my last rewatch, "In After School Special, Dean seems more unlike himself than any episode ever in the history of Supernatural up to this point" (post explaining that here). I carry similar sentiments about portions of 5.06 "I Believe The Children Are Our Future". Yes—I am aware of performing Dean meta. I just... feel like they try a little too hard. It feels hamfisted—desperate. To the point it doesn't feel like Dean anymore sometimes. In 5.06, they also have Dean (guy who is generally very protective of kids) suggest to Jesse that he'd be good to have in a fight???? I can see how they got there, but again—it just feels... off. The last episode I rewatched that they authored, 6.04 "Weekend At Bobby's", also leaves a bad taste in my mouth—not in what it's trying to do with Bobby or what it's trying to do on a meta level—but once again, with dialogue from Dean that just makes me think "he would not fucking say that" (post here). I think looking at all of these, you can probably see deangirl ire toward Dabb has a long history. It's been around as long as he's been around, whether he deserves as much ire as he gets or not.

I haven't circled back yet on this rewatch, but Dabb and Loflin also penned season 7's "The Girl Next Door"... do I need to say anything specific? Maybe I'll just link my entire #amy tag. What narrative did they want you to get from that episode? Who the fuck knows. And that's often the problem:

When you watch various episodes I've mentioned, you can work around to a meta that tells you something different than you might at first think the page conveys—something hidden and maybe contradictory. The thing is... you could also... not do that? And that wouldn't be so bad, except that sometimes the two narratives you can most easily grasp completely contradict each other. "After School Special" can be an episode that points to Sam's envy of Dean and John deep down and foreshadows Sam becoming a bully, but on a meta level, it also just as easily says Sam becoming a bully is somehow Dean's fault, and Sam is some poor captive baby. Dean is a creep and a bully and a cheater but we should all coddle him because he saw his mom die when he was a child and he's sooo sad. "Yellow Fever" can be a queer meta story and might also foreshadow approaching Bully!Sam in 4.14, but it also very much does call Dean a jerk (should we take that seriously? should we not?) and implies Dean should be punished for the outcome of three decades of reality-bending torture. Even if it's a queer meta underneath... it's just as easily one about how closeted men should be humiliated for cowardice or how being closeted turns you into an asshole.

Jumping way ahead, I have to mention 15.10 "The Hero's Journey" just because. Yes, it is full of jokes and Garth goodness, but also tries to sell you the story that nothing about Sam and Dean is real, to a degree that feels like you are being flipped the bird for ever watching this show. And again—you can make meta that it's all a ruse! But is it? Or is Dabb actually just telling you to go fuck yourself? Like he totally wasn't when, after the SPN finale when fans were Not Happy™️, he tweeted a sign reading, "Don't feed the baboons"? Yet again—we play into the motif of the "hero" who isn't a hero at all but some pathetic loser who deserves to be publicly humiliated, bookended with Dabb's opening episode in his opening season. I'm not saying that's what it is on purpose—but I am saying you can make these arguments easily, and that leaves me consistently annoyed with Dabb for being fucking sloppy and leaving me to deal with some of the most insufferable meta imaginable that carries little support outside of episodes written by Dabb or the Dabb/Loflin writing team.... Yes—I am in fact saying that Dabb and Loflin's hamfisted episodes (regardless of their intentions) are largely responsible for some of the most insufferable, loathesome fandom metas about Sam and Dean's relationship around.

Look at 5.16 "Dark Side Of The Moon", and 7.08 "Time for A Wedding!" and 8.14 "Trial and Error", 11.17 "Red Meat", and 15.20 "Carry On". Along with 4.13, while they might or might not say something deeper or contradictory on a meta level, on a surface level, every single one of these episodes sows the narrative that Dean is needy and clingy and needs Sam more than Sam needs him—something I intensely disagree with for a multitude of reasons... but I'll just link this. Many of these episodes also follow a surface level narrative of "normal life obsessed Sam" (and here I'll link my entire #sam the hunter tag and #in which sam is not a helpless little waif with his hands cast over his eyes being carried along by the tides of the immutable sea). When I look at this episode list, I also don't find it at all difficult to believe that Dabb wanted Dean to die in the finale. There is nothing at all shocking about that. And yes—you can argue he's pointing to the opposite—that this fate should be subverted and that's what makes 15.20 the dark ending, but I think you can just as easily argue that yes it's a dark ending and yes Dabb has always dreamed of this ending. A "tragic" ending where Dean dies and Sam goes on to have a white picket fence... while also leaving you little hints along the way that maybe it's all a big ruse because how could he not? He never has to explain anything. Someone else will pick up the story and make it make sense. He's already fucked off to piss all over fans of Resident Evil.

That said, when I mention what I feel is off character work, I mainly mention Dabb/Loflin episodes from my recent rewatch, which suffer from the two of them being newer to the series (coming onto the writing team in season 4) and also leave questions about whether, perhaps, they had conflicting ideas about characterization. Was Dabb the one penning these lines? Was it Loflin? Was it both? Did they trade out who took the lead? I didn't really say anything negative about "Sam, Interrupted" or "Jump the Shark"... (though "Sam, Interrupted" also calls Dean "codependent") who wrote those? Is it possible that the messiness of the meta comes down to two writers at war? I have to imagine though, that they got along, or else they wouldn't have written together for four fucking years. If they didn't get along...? My mind always comes back to their first solo episodes, right after splitting up in season 8. Dabb's first solo episode is "Hunteri Heroici"—the only episode to lend any perspective to season 8 Sam's reasons for abandoning everyone—paralleling him checking out with Fred's catatonia, which Sam has to save Fred from. It is the only episode that lends Sam sympathy in the early part of the season. He follows it up with "Trial and Error"—where Sam promises to save Dean from suicidal thoughts. Loflin's first solo episode is what I would regard as the most scathing solo episode commentary on Sam in the entire series—"Citizen Fang". Then he writes again right after Dabb's "Trial and Error"—penning "Remember The Titans" where Sam tells Dean to get over the promise Sam so passionately made in Dabb's episode and face reality.

This is why we're exploring this rewatch.

DISCLAIMER: Now I just devolve into bitching because I'm writing at 3AM. Proceed at your own risk.

It seems like these days, everyone demands an explanation for disliking Dabb (something about some sort of destiel battle... I don't know what that flamewar is and I don't give a damn tbqh.) I guess I've just been wondering what's actually so great about him. Because it feels like people have overcorrected to basically acting like he's god's greatest gift to mankind. People point to how meta his episodes can be, but I think other writers easily best him on that front on multiple occasions (particularly enjoyed by me so far on this rewatch: 3.10 "Dream A Little Dream Of Me", 4.04 "Monster Movie", 4.12 "Criss Angel Is A Douchebag"), and without leaving their meaning so up in the air that you don't even know what the hell they were actually trying to tell you because there are two different completely incongruous narratives you could just as justifiably claim were the intended one. Some people may find that duality praise-worthy. I don't. I find it sloppy—and when I add in mediocre character work, I just land on the side of him being, at the very best, mid.

Add him in as showrunner, you have... at least two of my least favorite seasons (13 and 15). Add that he's a one-trick pony in terms of the Sam and Dean conflicts mentioned above that he continuously rehashes rather than come up with anything new or fresh, and the same conflicts between Dean and Cas being played out until they both die (shut UP I'm not talking about canon destiel as the alternative—I am literally just asking for more diverse conflicts). I can't say I understand what I''m supposed to find so impressive.

(Before anyone so much as breathes this near me, Berens also sucks and I am going to tear off your nose hairs if you start bringing him up as if disliking Dabb for some reason means wearing rose colored glasses about Berens. Berens can eat a whole cactus raw over "The Trap" alone.)