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dimiclaudeblaigan · 1 year ago

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I know you all know by default how much I love this conversation, but in RD at least, a lot of characters fall out of relevancy after a certain point (whereas in PoR you could argue that having full supports prevents this). Shinon is one of the only side characters who doesn't really do this, having three base conversations throughout part three (which is pretty fucking good considering several of the chapters aren't even with the Greil Mercenaries).

Back in PoR, Shinon asks for praise/gratitude. Expects it. By this point he doesn't want it anymore. He didn't want it when he was selling bows for emergency income (which Rolf took up as well) and he doesn't want it here either. His personality has chilled out so much from being a hothead and he's much more expressive of his actual feelings (even if you compare his standard death quotes in both games, he's much more emotionally expressive in RD).

A lot of characters - most honestly, including even the GMs (barring Boyd if he A supports Mist which gives him more content and expresses a whole lot of maturity compared to PoR Boyd) tend to drop off in development. They might stick around (ex. PoR puts all the major groups in the spotlight until the next group shows up and goes through all of them), but the development eventually stagnates outside of supports (including in base conversations, which this one is such).

Since RD doesn't get supports with full conversations, you only get snippets of development/characterization through them, while the base conversations may offer insight into the characters and show you how they've changed over the years but don't truly develop them. Shinon is a very lucky situation for his character because he keeps returning in both games, and it helps develop him across both games with a full timeline (similar to Naesala, who has a fully fleshed out story and personality development over both games and never stops dead at any point in the pair of games).

In PoR Shinon was distant and selectively a bit cold (Greil, Rolf and Gatrie excluded from that, and Mist to an extent as well). RD gives the impression that he just... doesn't care about all that anymore. He's fine where he is and has learned he can live with these people and not have to expect betrayal. He doesn't have to anticipate being on his own ever again. There's no real reason for him to keep up the walls and barriers to protect himself, and he's not living just to survive anymore.

Most times when I end up loving a character it's because of the content given to me and what have I to work with, rather than loving a character and searching for things to love. I fully expect that that's why I finally, after years of being unable to decide who my Tellius favorite was because I loved several of them too dearly to decide, found myself able to settle on Shinon.

When I got older and gave it more thought, considering all the development and traits of each of them and how responsive I was to them, one day I asked myself, well okay, what if someone asked you who your favorite was? What if you still did love the same ones as your number one, all of them, but could only give one name quick and simple? Who would you pick? The first name that instantly hit me was Shinon. That was enough for me to decide okay, there's a reason he's the first person who instantly came to me if I had to truly settle on one. I hadn't quite figured it out yet, but I knew there was a reason that if I had to pick a single standout, it would be him.

A lot of it harkens back to this conversation. It is development in and of itself, and also very expressive of who he is. The fact that he also doesn't fall off in conversations and is more recurring than not also gives me more to examine about him and more to think about. It puts him in a more likely position to think about him and who he is than I would for characters the writers didn't really bother developing (including other recurring characters like Marcia, who keep coming back in both games similar to Shinon, but see no development as a person - unfortunately in her case, in either game).

He has a very rich, detailed and unforgotten-by-the-writers character and one whose story ends on a very high note. I say "ends" in the sense of main story/base content, but it technically continues if he's taken to the Tower and gains the ability to A support various other characters who he otherwise could not support or could only reach a B support with, such as Sanaki, Tibarn, etc. This conversation is like an accumulation of his growth between both games, including the subtle things you can only pick up on through actions/other character lines.

Ike says he (everyone, which includes Shinon) chose to stay with them when he told everyone who their next employer was/what they'd be doing/etc, and Ike gave him and Soren an out if they weren't comfortable with it. They weren't all forced to go. That says by itself that Shinon made that choice on his own. He chose to stay with them when he was not yet totally comfortable with laguz and was still working on that part of himself (the fact that he uses the term "laguz" at all is already a huge step up from where he leaves off on his A support with Janaff, which did not leave off poorly at all).

Last time Shinon was uncomfortable with something in the Greil Mercenaries, he made the choice to leave. When he did come back, he was not exclusively surrounded by only the GMs and otherwise, purely laguz (which prior to meeting Janaff I would argue he was not ready for at all at the time). Here, he was, and he still made the choice to stay with them knowing exactly what his situation would look like.

Another thing worth considering is how much of a hothead Shinon was in PoR, but he still took Rolf on as a student. While I'm not sure exactly how accurate Mist's statement is about "forcing" Rhys to teach her (it's possible she was pushy about it because he didn't want to, such as because it might mean she might end up on the battlefield), we do know Rolf wanted to learn and was accepted.

We can easily infer through their conversations that Shinon would rather teach him to survive and have a safety net rather than worry about him being on a battlefield. Shinon saw that he was motivated to learn and, regardless of the fact that he was still in survival mode himself and not of the mind of "I'll be with these people forever and want to help them", taught him while apparently having told him "things like this happen" with mercenaries (i.e. different employers, separation, etc). If they ended up on opposite sides but Rolf could wield a weapon, that could endanger him, but he does it anyway. His priority is always survival, but it's also the survival of children and anyone he cares about. He also dies begrudgingly in his PoR death quote, which is completely opposite of his death quote against Rolf.

Another thing for me: he's also very confident and aware of his capabilities as a marksman. He knows what he's worth and at this point, he no longer brags about it (he used to all the time in PoR). He sees no reason to have to prop himself up. There's no insecurity in him that makes him feel the need to try to be open about being better than anyone else. He knows and accepts what he's worth without feeling the need to tell people about it.

If someone asked him what he thought of himself/his own worth, yeah, he'd admit his skill and capability without being too humble, but he also wouldn't go overboard with it or say it during instances that don't really warrant it (basically, if absolutely nobody asked, he'd say it anyway in PoR. In RD he doesn't really seem to give a shit anymore about letting the whole world know how good he is). He's lost the whole pick me, look at me sort of attitude. Imo it's also due to a higher amount of respect he has for himself now, and a much healthier one. He doesn't care about being the best anymore (he'd be perfectly happy if Rolf was instead) and is just satisfied knowing his skill on his own. He's satisfied not being alive just to survive, but to be with this mercenary group and actually able to live.

As a side note, we never actually see him having drunk or in the middle of drinking in RD, so... it's also likely he's worked on his possible PoR drinking issue too!

All in all, he's just one of the few non-main characters who came a whole long way with a full story. He feels very different in RD, but not so much that he feels like a different character entirely. For me, I can feel the growth in who he is, and that to me is an excellent handling of a character. When I can feel how different they are from beginning to end, I can feel the intent of character growth behind it. I can't tell you with certainty that the writers took a liking to him and so biasly kept sticking in dialogue for him (and singlehandedly made him one of the solidly best units in RD, for that matter...), but he's definitely repeatedly present and has hefty, story/backstory littered implications.

His dialogue feels meaningful to his own personal story in all his conversations. In other words, he doesn't have a conversation that feels devoid of meaning. It comes across more as all of his content exists for a reason/has meaning behind it. There's no wasted dialogue with him. When he's there, it means something for his character (comparatively to other side characters who may have lengthy conversations but you walk away having gotten nothing out of it, be that in PoR and/or RD).

He has fewer supports than most of the cast in PoR, but every single one had some kind of direction to it. Even if you look at his C support with Janaff and go "well that's just classic early PoR Shinon", the point of that is exactly that: that he starts out who we recognize and develops from there. That support alone goes from that to a lot of growth in three conversations, and beneficially so on both sides.

Simply put, he has more content the average Tellius character (including all of his boss quotes in chapter 18), and everything leads up to who he is by this conversation. It's a full story for a side character, later including personalized support dialogue for A supports, and he just happens to exhibit a lot of growth and traits that I already lean toward (hence why he was in my top spot all along, just tied with others. Now he's not tied with others and has the top spot to himself!).

I think it's likely it's the fact that as mentioned, none of his conversations are throwaway conversations. You never walk away from his conversations having gotten nothing (I mean, I'm sure people who refuse to see it don't notice precisely because they are willing themselves to refuse to see it to find excuses to keep hating him). Even in his first RD base conversation, the fact that he acts as you'd expect but drops a "laguz" in there is already a hint for his growth direction on top of being there at all. It's really just up from there, as is the case with all his content.

I tend to lean toward characters with a whole fountain of insightful conversations and depth, and in FE games you often don't find those characters outside of the mains. While I'd argue Tellius is a lot less tropey than modern FE (there were some tropey types like Makalov and Ilyana whose characters are basically nothing without their tropes), a lot of its side characters are still reduced to very surface level characterization with no real growth.

Shinon was very lucky to get as much as he did, and I'd say he has just as much if not more personal depth and lore than even some of the mains themselves. Imo he's a very lucky and rare find in FE games, when there are so many goddamn characters that the writers can't flesh them all out (reasonably of course, but it makes it even more special when it happens for non mains). Even with the Fodlan games and all its content, a lot if not most of its characters are full on tropes with little to nothing in the way of anything else. Engage suffers from it too, with a few diamonds in the rough and not much else.

That's not to say I hate the games or their characters, because obviously I would not still be playing new titles to the franchise if I hated it. I'm saying it makes the ones with as much depth as Shinon a gold mine to be found amidst a very large cast of characters that don't usually get that treatment.

anyway i will always talk abt shinon more when able so this is Not The End but i will end this post here lest it turns into another 20+ paragraphs.

#DCB RD Run #Shinon #i was gonna post this a long time ago but then my fandom interests shifted again #but then a friend in said fandom showed blatant interest in shinon and that's all it took #i wasn't kidding when i said even when i go into other fandoms tellius just STICKS with me #shinon can't leave me and i can't leave him i am simply bound to him at this point #i remember back in the day when i couldn't determine who my fave was in these games #and i just asked myself like... if someone asked for your fave and you could only pick one char #who would you pick in that situation (since when trying to decide i was always like #it's oscar ike shinon ranulf and soren and probably reyson!!!) but if i had to pick only one?#asking MYSELF that was difficult... but if i considered someone ELSE asking me?#my answer was immediately shinon. as shinon himself would say! ''no hesitation''!#that was when i actually genuinely knew my answer. kinda hard to deny when my little heart and brain just #instantly processed that answer without any actual thought. I stuck with it since and honestly???#I've been so happy for it. I've been so happy expressing my love for him!#I love Ike too ofc but it's a very different feeling ig since Ike is already insanely loved by the fandom #shinon is like... my special little guy

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