#like at first i was confused why namor was even an option when her and reed are engaged from issue 1

[songofpurple-summer]

currently trying to read through the fantastic four comics starting from the the beginning and someone please tell me Sue gets her force fields soon, i can’t take much more of this

[mmark1985]

When I say Namora is a problem. I mean it in the best way possible. She is an instigator and makes Namor question his own judgement. I love it. I love that you highlighted the comparison between Namora vs. M'Baku and Nakia. That's a brilliant observation.

I also see your points about Ramonda cuddling Shuri. And this is common with parents who lose children. They become protective of the others. But at no time did she have faith in Shuri's ability to be diplomatic. Namor told Ramonda that Shuri asked to be taken to Talokan. She should have trusted that Shuri had a plan of some kind. When Namor said there was nothing SHE could offer him to release Shuri he is playing with her a bit. Because Shuri is not his captive, Riri is. But Shuri won't leave without Riri... That's what she just told him. So in his mind there really is nothing Ramonda can offer for him to release Shuri.

Ramonda could have asked to speak to Shuri, to get a letter from her to assure she is safe... Something before the most nuclear option that he specifically said would lead to war.

Her cuddling of Shuri makes her forget about her duty as sovereign of a nation.

I'm sorry for everyone who disagrees but she made the worst decision at every turn and caused her own demise. Shuri was the one trying to negotiate with Namor and Ramonda just interrupted it.

And on point 2) that's why I said it was edited weird. I think they changed their mind about something or cut out a scene and tried to stitch it together. Because we can see time is passing through Nakia and Ramonda but we can't tell time is passing Talokan. Shuri's and Namor's conversations has to have taken place on two different days. We can explain why he changes clothes, not not why Shuri changes clothes... And where? Her quarters was with Riri and Riri acted like that was the first time she was seeing Shuri since she first went to meet Namor. She didn't even ask... "why are you wearing different clothes?". So imo that's a continuity error or they just cut a scene between where Shuri sees Riri again after seeing Talocan and when she talks with Namor again, on another day. The cut in the movie is confusing.

So I watched over Wakanda forever and I noticed a few things.

1)I'm sorry but Ramonda was kind of guilty. Even though I understood that she wanted her daughter back she sent in someone that killed two people. One of them a very innocent and almost defenseless girl. Shuri asked to be taken to Talokan. He was treating her well. I felt really bad for Namor when the girl is looking to him to save her because to her, he is a God. Yet he is unable to help her. He calls the girl his child. To him they are all his children. So essentially Ramonda had his child killed. And wouldn't you go crazy if someone killed your chidren and was risking your entire family. Everything Wakanda did continued to put Talokan in danger and Ramonda was totally lacking empathy.

So for me, while it is sad that she died, Namor was not unjustified in killing her.

And to be clear, he told her that he would bring war to Wakanda if they tried to come into Talokan. And Ramonda went ahead. Why didn't Nakia also have non lethal weapons too so at least she wouldn't kill anyone.

2) Shuri was in Talokan longer than I noticed. On the first day she is there he gives her one traditional royal outfit to wear and he wears his more formal traditional clothes. Then the scene happens where he shows her around. The next time we see them her outfit is not the traditional clothes. It's something fancier than what everyone else is wearing but Riri has something made of similar material on. And he is no longer in his formal clothes but something I'm guessing is more casual for his position. At this point he is not talking to her on a diplomatic level, it's more personal. He isn't really trying to look impressive anymore. (probably can't top the sun underwater anyway).

3)Namora is a problem. She was there to instigate and push for more conflict everytime. She didn't see the wisdom in his strategy and she sees Wakanda as enemies and Namor as being weak. If he gets his own movie then this is what they should focus on. I was thinking Atuma would be the problem because he is on the comics but in the movie Namora is the one who always gets him to escalate.

4) so now that I've picked up on these things I didn't see before I feel like they needed more scenes of Shuri in Talocan to show how much time was passing. It will also justify Ramonda more. Also more hints of how Namor's Court (I'll call it that) feels about what he is trying to do. Because as the movie is cut right now it looks like all her conversations with Namor happens in one day into night and at some time in that day they changed clothes. 🤷🏾‍♀️ That's weird. His is understandable because he removed his extra regal and fancy stuff to show her Talokan but she just pops up in a different outfit. And Riri acts like she was gone all that time. So maybe a conversation with Riri hinting that they were there for a while and Shuri telling her how she trying to get them out of the situation.

PS....

I know everyone will disagree with me about the queen but she was acting like a mother, not a queen and it cost her nation dearly.

[thebibliomancer]

Essential Avengers: West Coast Avengers #1: Avengers Assemble!

September, 1984

WHO will answer Hawkeye’s call to join the new team?

I assume Mockingbird? I see her silhouette in the cover box and the assumption was that she and Clint were a package deal? I don’t know what it’s being played like its not a given.

Some good or at least interesting options here for the second team.

Red Wolf, Iron Man, Puck, I thiiiiink Crystal?, Doc Sampson, Mockingbird, Cyclops, Black Widow, Wonder Man, Tigra, Quicksilver, Hercules, Ant-Man, Namor, and the Shroud.

A lot of interesting options. I really want it to be Cyclops and I know its not going to be Cyclops.

STOP TEASING ME WITH AVENGERS CYCLOPS IF YOU’RE NOT GOING TO GIVE IT TO ME!

Also, this issue #1 of West Coast Avengers. Or at least the first issue #1. The team is introduced in a four issue miniseries before getting an ongoing - and a second issue #1 - about a year later.

This will be moderately confusing for my numbering but I’m brave enough to barrel on through anyway.

Last time in Avengers: Vision became the chairman of the Avengers and announced that due to the threat of the Dire Wraiths, the Avengers would be opening up a West Coast team led by newly married Hawkeye. In one page reminders of the subplot in various issues, Hawkeye and Mockingbird arrived in Los Angeles, went real estate shopping, and set up a new HQ in a nice compound that used to belong to an actress.

The team is only missing one thing.

A team.

Maybe it’s just me but I’d think that you’d get the team sorted out before you spent who knows how much renovating a compound up to the level required for a superhero team.

It’s going to be really embarrassing if you open a new Avengers team and nobody comes.

(Vision agrees and has taken the liberty of reaching out to several likely candidates.)

Mockingbird confirms that Hawkeye has invited her onto the team but she’s not even sure she’s Avengers material, she doesn’t even have powers.

Hawkeye: “Neither does Captain America! Neither do I! If I can be an Avenger -- !”

Mockingbird: “Anyone can, right?”

Hawkeye: “And people wonder why you took the code-name Mockingbird!”

Haha! I do like their chemistry!

He does clarify that its totally not just because she’s married to him (although I would point out that he kept trying to get Black Widow on the team based on them dating) but that she’s totally earned it! She has years of experience as a SHIELD agent!

Hawkeye calls Vision to let him know that the place is all set up and Vision lets him know about the reaching out to several likely candidates biz.

BOOM SCENE TRANSITION TO DOWNTOWN SAN FRANCISCO at the office of private investigator Jessica Drew.

Because, yeah, Jessica Drew did the PI thing as an ex-superhero way before Jessica Jones. And Jessica Jones is probably Drew with some of the serial numbers scratched off.

ANYWAY, she’s talking to hardboiled Tigra, who helped her on the Enselmo case.

Jessica Drew: “I still laugh when I think about the way you ran our pigeon up and down Telegraph Hill!”

Tigra: “That was the best part of the case! After all... bringing pigeons to ground is second nature to a lady who’s half-cat!”

Jessica tries to offer Tigra a job (since this is before the internet and Tigra can’t find a lot of modeling jobs for models covered with fur) but Jessica’s secretary interrupts with a call for Tigra.

The call sounds ominous from Jess only hearing half of it but I’m 99.9% sure its Vision offering Tigra a spot on the West Coast Avengers.

Read Tigra’s replies with that context and you’ll laugh.

Tigra tells Jess that she’s got to book it to LA for business that she has to settle on her own but they’ll talk about Jess’ offer later.

Tigra: “Don’t worry, I’m a big girl... I can make my own mistakes!”

I feel like a little bit of clarification would have gone a long way here, Tigra.

Because Jessica assumes that Tigra is in trouble and decides to call someone to tail (ha) Tigra.

Meanwhile, a car chase in the Mojave Desert.

To cut to the car chase, this is a movie set filming a stunt spectacular car chase scene for what I’m pretty sure is James Bond.

Pyrotechnics are easy if you don’t stress blowing up the stuntman.

Because he’s near invulnerable.

The stuntman (Simon Williams, Wonder Man) does need to have buckets of water thrown on him to cool him off after being in an explosion but he’s otherwise fine.

Cool that Wonder Man found an acting job he can handle. He seems pretty thrilled with it.

One of the staff on set tells Simon that his trailer is buzzing and he realizes its his Avengers transceiver.

He receives his offer from Vision (although apparently a much more vague one than Tigra) and flies off after making sure he has no more stunts scheduled for the day.

An hour later and hundreds of miles elsewhere, Iron Man (the James Rhodes version) is flying around, minding his own business, thinking about how cool it is to have relocated to California to help Tony Stark open a new business, admiring the Standord University Linear Accelerator Center.

Just as he’s thinking that he hopes that Tony isn’t in a hurry to being Iron Man since he’s gotten used to it, Vision cuts in on the secret Iron Man radio frequency to call him in to the meeting.

Iron Man arrives twenty minutes later at the West Avengers compound on the Palos Verdes Peninsula bluffs and paraphrased does an impressed whistle at what a nice place it is.

Iron Man: “Some spread! This looks like the kinda place Tony would’ve hung out... before he lost Stark International! The best part of being his pilot in those days was ferrying him to spots like this! Who’d have thought I’d ever be invited on my own? Then again, who’d have thought little Jimmy Rhodes would grow up to be Iron Man?!”

Future knowledge bums me out a little with this. This is spoilers for a year from now and several issues from now but in the time gap between the West Coast Avengers limited series and the ongoing, Tony does take over being Iron Man again. I hope you enjoy all this while it lasts, Rhodey. And hey, War Machine is only like eight years away!

Tigra arrives and starts acting familiar with Iron Man because she thinks she knows its Tony and they were teammates for a bit.

She ditches the briefly identity obscuring trenchcoat and hat because dammit she has a year round fur coat and its hot in California!

She also might be flirting, although hopefully not as bad as she’ll get later in the ongoing. Spoilers for a year and several issues for now but it is a bafflingly bad subplot that Tigra gets given.

The other reason I bring it up is that this is the exact situation that led Rhodey to quit the Avengers when he became Iron Man. He felt it would be awkward interacting with people who already knew Iron Man well.

I guess he’s more comfortable with it now.

The West Coast Avengers roster that we already know about are all people who either quit the Avengers or don’t feel like they’d be a good fit. Which is just a great start so I’m interested to see if we’ll get justifications for why they’d sign up the minute a franchise opens.

Hawkeye takes Tigra and Iron Man off on a tour while a mysterious shrouded figure watches.

The tour concludes without us seeing the tour, boo. But it comes up that neither Iron Man or Tigra know why they’re here.

Iron Man was just told he was needed but didn’t get any more details. We know that Wonder Man got the same vagueness. And Tigra was just offered a $1000 dollar stipend to fly out to LA and see if she could “help the Avengers out!”

So Hawkeye gives them the sales pitch.

That Captain America made it a rule that except in emergencies, the Avengers’ roster would be limited to six members. But Vision decided that they need more than six Avengers but wanted to keep the team from becoming unwieldy so told Hawkeye to set up an expansion team: the West Coast Avengers!

It’ll basically be the same thing as the original Avengers in terms of by-laws and rights and privileges and both groups will be affiliated but the West Coast Avengers will be running their own show west of the Rockies.

If everyone here agrees to sign up, that’ll make a team of five with a sixth spot to fill.

But Tigra objects that she left the original team because she felt out of her depth and why would that be different here?

Ah, now there it is.

Justify it, Hawkeye.

Except he doesn’t because the intruder alarm goes off.

The intruder alarm all the way in the first basement level, which means their intruder has already penetrated deep into the compound and bypassed a lot of the security systems.

Hawkeye is sure that the intruder is actually a highly organized commando raid and he’s instantly proven wrong with an infrared scan shows just one guy.

Womp womp.

Hawkeye is also sure that however this just one guy got as far as he did, the security system in the next area will totally--

Womp womp.

Hawkeye is fed up at this point and seals off the security levels, forcing the dude back through the domestic areas. He then orders Iron Man, Tigra, and Mockingbird to split up to cover more ground that way and surround the intruder.

Not having much better to do, they do, but everyone has some misgivings in their thinky thoughts.

Iron Man: Hawk sounds like he really gets into giving orders. I don’t know if I like that.

Tigra: I must be some sort of masochist to get involved with Avengers again! They always seem to know what they’re doing... not like me! What am I doing here? What am I trying to prove?

Hawkeye: Should I let the others catch our intruder... or rush in and collar him myself? How would Cap handle this?

Mockingbird: Poor Hawk... He wants so much to be a good leader! I know he can do it, but I wish he wouldn’t try quite so hard! In a way, though, it’s funny... His first act as leader was having the team split up!

Mockingbird is the first to run into the intruder, suddenly being enveloped in a cloud of darkness. She can’t see anything but hears someone moving and launches one of her staves from her spring-loaded sleeve launcher.

Its a near miss, breaking a lamp instead of the intruder, who turns out to be Shroud. Y’know, that friend of Jessica Drew’s we met in that two-parter about saving Jessica Drew’s ghost?

Shroud realizes how skilled Mockingbird is and that he might have trouble if he takes her lightly so he goes right for the Vulcan neck pinch, knocking out Mockingbird. But she hits Shroud in the stomach guts with her second stave as she’s passing out.

Hawkeye then shows up, concerned that he hasn’t run into Mockingbird yet and drawn to the cloud of darkness, except not the Final Fantasy villain.

He shoots a light arrow, except not the Legend of Zelda powerup, into the cloud to no real effect so shrugs and shoots a sonic arrow instead.

Shroud flees the area and Hawkeye finds Mockingbird who tells him to shut up with the EEEEE arrow.

Hawkeye: “Where’d our man go?”

Mockingbird: “How should I know? It was dark!”

Hah.

The cloud of darkness passes through the area of the mansion/compound that Tigra is in and she recognizes it as Shroud’s darkness. She calls out to him but he doesn’t hear her because he’s in another wing about to be tackled by Iron Man who can see Shroud with his in-helmet radar.

Controlling darkness is all well and good until technology.

Ain’t it said, Rumia?

Shroud is also blind so all he knows is that an armored man is lunging at him until Iron Man calls him a fool for trespassing on Avengers turf.

And that’s when he realizes that he done goofed.

Hmm. What is that symbol on Shroud’s hood, anyway? It looks kinda like Aku.

Shroud manages to escape Iron Man’s grasp, sacrificing some of his neat cape. Although, it tears into an even cooler look so is it really a sacrifice?

He decides that he’s just going to get out of here.

Shroud: Have to get undercover and think out my next move. I don’t want to fight Avengers! That could become a life’s work -- and I have better things to do!

I can’t decide whether he means that he’d be at it all day or that this misunderstanding fight would lead him down an unwilling path of villainy as some third-string grudge holder.

Probably the former?

Anyway, Shroud is just leaping over the balcony when Wonder Man finally arrives and spots him. And unfortunately for Shroud’s ribs, he has been cultivating a reputation as a crimelord so Wonder Man flies in and tackles him into a tree.

Womp womp, except for Shroud this time.

Tigra shows up and jumps on Wonder Man from forty feet away to stop him from hurting Shroud any further, explaining that he’s her friend.

Shroud: “I’m certainly glad I’m not an enemy... I’d hate to think how I’d be treated then!”

Hah.

Later, in the medical room, I guess, Mockingbird applies bandages to Shroud’s ribs except on the outside of his costume. Does... does that do anything? Obviously not for open wounds. But for bruised bones, I guess the point is compression. But it feels less than ideal because he’d have to take off the bandages to take off his shirt. Just feels better to apply the bandages under the clothes, MOCKINGBIRD.

What makes it weirder is that we see him a couple panels later pulling his shirt down over the bandages. Which makes me think Mockingbird bandaged him on top of his costume and he had to pull his costume top out from under them and pull it down. He didn’t just stop her because that would be rude?

Shroud explains that Jessica Drew asked him to keep an eye on Tigra because of how the phone call made her act all weird. He followed Tigra from the airport to here and ran into a gaggle of superheroes. 

In the meantime, Hawkeye has verified Shroud with a report Captain America filed on him so Hawkeye believes he’s a good guy now.

Wonder Man and Iron Man apologize for going in swinging and Tigra for not just telling Jessica what the call was about. But Shroud tells them no permanent harm done.

Hawkeye decides to offer Shroud the last spot on the team (assuming that everyone already invited is going to choose to stay).

Hawkeye: “That trick you do with the dark is one slick little number... and anyone who can hold his own against us as long as you did obviously has what it takes in the skill department. Besides, what you did reminds me a little of how I introduced myself to the Avengers -- I broke in, too! Come on... What do you say?”

Shroud say... no.

He’s honored and a couple years earlier he would have jumped at the chance. But Wonder Man’s assumption didn’t come from nowhere. Shroud has been spending the last many months building up his outlaw rep so he can take down gangs from the inside.

Like the Green Hornet, I guess?

But since it’d be hard to be an Avenger West Coast AND keep up the fake outlaw thing, Shroud has to turn them down.

Shroud then pulls his cloud of darkness disappearing trick and nopes out.

With all that tied up, Wonder Man asks whats the big thing that Vision called him out for, leading an exasperated Hawkeye to start his West Coast Avengers sales pitch from the top.

Mockingbird: “That’s the spirit, fearless leader! Just remember, it can only get better from here!”

Hah.

So, that was the first issue of West Coast Avengers.

And there’s still no West Coast Avengers team.

Tigra and Iron Man still have reservations about the idea. Wonder Man has no idea why he’s there.

Its an interesting decision to hit the ground walking with this team. But it makes sense. The initial plan wasn’t for the West Coast Avengers to get an ongoing. This limited series was supposed to establish the concept, give a few Avengers affiliated characters something to be doing off-panel, and be able to be pulled in for crossovers and guest appearances as needed.

So the book can focus more on Hawkeye’s trials in actually getting this team going. He’s finally gotten to be a leader of the Avengers like he’s always wanted and now has to deal with all the frustration that Captain America or Hank Pym had with him, and then some.

Still, funny that the West Coast Avengers’ first adventure has them not only not a team yet but spending their time beating up a friend due to mistaken identity.

Will they get their act together by the next issue? Only time will tell. I tell a lie because Chronos never spoils stories. Only me will tell or maybe the Internet.

Follow @essential-avengers​ for the rest of the West Coast Avengers limited series. And for eventual bafflement when they get an ongoing. Also, like and reblog.

[f4liveblogarchives]

Fantastic Four Vol. 1 Annual 1963

Session Start (Wackd:#Wack’d): Sat Oct 22 00:19:13 2016 -0400  [22:34:41] <Wackd> Does anything Reed makes NOT involve horribly harmful substances? 

[22:35:43] <maxwellelvis> Like maybe they're the Han Solo type and they're not exactly in this for their revolution or whatever. [22:36:10] <maxwellelvis> Wackd: With an attitude like that, you could never be a scientician. [22:36:56] <Wackd> "Ben, could you maybe watch your language a bit?" "I don't SEE what you mean!"

[22:38:38] <maxwellelvis> Where are they going that Reed has to buy tickets? [22:38:39] <Wackd> Ben Grimm in a hoodie on a cruise ship is my aesthetic

[22:39:37] <maxwellelvis> Ben sees no reason to have a good time if he can't look like he's having a terrible time. [22:40:20] <CorvusAtrox> Hey, back from work [22:41:37] <Phantomwoman> Hey [22:42:56] <Wackd> I fucking love Namor. "I have abducted the Four so that they can tell the humans that all the seas are off-limits from now on!" "Couldn't ya have just sent a telegram?" "..." [22:43:14] <maxwellelvis> "Quiet, you!" [22:44:57] <Wackd> So the UN has brought in some sort of expert on Atlantians to convince the UN Namur and his kin are real. [22:45:16] <Wackd> Which, y'know. Namor, dude. All you needed to do was fucking show up. [22:45:32] <maxwellelvis> You're asking Namor to make things easy for humans? [22:46:06] <maxwellelvis> They could just ask Jim Hammond? I'm sure as a robot he can't tell a lie. [22:46:24] <maxwellelvis> Oh wait, Jim Hammond has never been seen since the end of WWII. [22:46:33] <maxwellelvis> Whatever happened to him? [22:46:41] <Wackd> I'm really confused. Why does a human expert on Atlantians even exist? An accredited one? Like. Shouldn't that be like if Reed Richards went and said "Dracula's gonna conquer Earth!" and then brought in an expert on vampires? [22:47:16] <maxwellelvis> Isn't that what Hannibal King and Abraham Whistler and Blade are? [22:47:32] <Wackd> Also how the fuck has this guy studies Atlantians to begin with? No one has seen one for hundreds of years [22:47:55] <maxwellelvis> Well, a full-blooded Atlantian. [22:48:02] <maxwellelvis> *Atlantean* [22:48:14] <Wackd> Also this guy, uh [22:48:20] <Wackd> Knows how Namor was conceived [22:48:22] <Wackd> For some reason [22:48:33] <Wackd> WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION DR. FALTON [22:48:36] <Wackd> WHY DO YOU KNOW ALL THIS [22:48:40] <maxwellelvis> Marvel Comics #1 [22:49:10] <maxwellelvis> http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/0/09/Marvel_Comics_Vol_1_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20051217080221 [22:49:45] <Bocaj> Dr. Falton was in the room where it happened, the room where it happened [22:50:46] <MousaThe14> Namor is conceited, maybe he just told people [22:50:55] <MousaThe14> Or maybe it's in the records from his old invaders days [22:51:13] <maxwellelvis> The real question is where did the authors of Marvel Comics issue one get that information. [22:51:50] <Wackd> Okay so I looked this up on Marvel wiki [22:52:07] <Wackd> Because I was like "hey maybe Falton is a forgotten Golden Age character, a friend of Namor perhaps" [22:52:24] <maxwellelvis> Namor had been attacking surface-dwellers at random since 1939 [22:52:31] <MousaThe14> Also my listening to the Fantasti-cast has made me realize that Stan and Jack could barely remember details on a n issue to issue basis so stuff like "Who knows whose information" falls out of their minds very quickly [22:52:37] <maxwellelvis> Only stopping when WWII broke out. [22:52:51] <Wackd>

[22:52:52] <maxwellelvis> Wackd: IIRC, you may have just spoiled yourself. [22:52:54] <Bocaj> I've long known that Stan was bad at memory. [22:52:57] <Wackd> Anyway I guess that explains that [22:53:07] <MousaThe14> I mean, they were working on many comics at once and were already old men [22:53:14] <Bocaj> In an avengers story, he wrote that the Hulk's secret identity was Donald Blake [22:53:16] <maxwellelvis> I wish I'd remembered that in the first place. [22:53:34] <Bocaj> Holy shit, Namor's last name really is Mckenzie? [22:53:34] <maxwellelvis> Because then I could have just said, "Keep going, you'll see" [22:53:35] <MousaThe14> Peter Palmer, Rob Banner [22:53:41] <Bocaj> I thought Jay and Miles were making that up [22:53:46] <MousaThe14> @Bocaj, You didn't know? [22:53:46] <Wackd> I mean. Namor. Namor buddy. YOU COULD'VE JUST EXPLAINED AS YOURSELF [22:53:53] <MousaThe14> I figured you'd be one of the first people to know [22:53:56] <Wackd> WHY DID YOU NEED TO DISGUISE YOURSELF AS AN EXPERT ON ATLANTIANS [22:54:00] <Bocaj> Why doesn't it come up much more often? [22:54:02] <maxwellelvis> And waste that reveal? [22:54:02] <Bocaj> That's amazing [22:54:06] <Bocaj> Namor McKenzie [22:54:13] <maxwellelvis> Probably because he'd kill you if you used his human name. [22:54:27] <maxwellelvis> Even today he's not exactly on good terms with the human world. [22:54:39] <Wackd> Anyway back to it [22:54:43] <Bocaj> Except the parts that he wants to stick his dick in [22:55:01] <Bocaj> I'm not really impressed by Namor's antipathy towards humans with that kind of gaping exception [22:55:15] <MousaThe14> Namor's position has always been "Will help but will also turn against humans at the slightest provocation" [22:55:21] <Wackd> Okay uh the explanation makes a warped sort of sense [22:55:33] <Wackd> Namor wanted to be able to see what decision mankind would make without him in the room [22:55:50] <MousaThe14> Which does make sense [22:55:54] <Wackd> And then once they decided to fight he could fucking IMMEDIATELY take off and get his war machine moving [22:56:11] <MousaThe14> Namor is nothing if not efficient [22:56:25] <Wackd> Doesn't explain why he didn't just disguise himself as a member of the assembly instead of donning an elaborate professorial disguise and explaining his whole backstory [22:56:32] <Wackd> But whatever [22:56:47] <MousaThe14> Comic book contrivances [22:56:50] <maxwellelvis> That was purely for the audience's benefit. [22:57:29] <Wackd> I'll say this for Atlantians--I don't think anyone's ever conquered a whole city with zero casualties on either side before [22:57:31] <Wackd> Nice work guys

[22:57:52] <maxwellelvis> The Atlanteans used to be a lot more grotesque in the Golden Age. [22:59:19] <Wackd> So Namor's the only Atlantian who can breath air [22:59:26] <Bocaj> The females seem a lot less grotesque *for some reason* [22:59:44] <Wackd> So Reed's gonna...evaporate the water from all their helmets [22:59:49] <Wackd> Yay genocide? [23:00:06] <Phantomwoman> apparently [23:00:22] <maxwellelvis> How is it Reed seems more of a monster than Namor does? [23:00:35] <Wackd> Oh hey so max was talking the other night about how trusting Americans were of their government in the early 60s [23:00:36] <MousaThe14> Because he's the "hero". [23:00:37] <maxwellelvis> I mean, there's killing and then there's what Reed does in this annual. [23:00:48] <MousaThe14> He's the straight white middle aged man [23:00:53] <maxwellelvis> Yes, Wackd? [23:00:54] <MousaThe14> Therefore is right in everything [23:01:11] <Wackd> And it's really interesting to contrast the scene we're getting of the Pentagon refusing to attack New York with mass weaponry because of the civilian population [23:01:22] <Wackd> With the World Security Council saying "fuck it" in the first Avengers movie [23:01:46] <Bocaj> Non-atmospheric, mukora? [23:03:15] <Wackd> This really seems like something Reed should've worked out in the design stage

[23:03:56] <MousaThe14> The thing about mad engineering is that sometimes it's more art than science [23:04:10] <maxwellelvis> She's nowhere near that thing, Reed. [23:04:15] <maxwellelvis> In fact she's behind you. [23:10:24] <Wackd> Aw. I feel kinda bad for Namor. [23:10:33] <Wackd> He tried to save Sue so his people abandoned him. [23:10:46] <Wackd> Ain't that just the way. [23:10:53] <Bocaj> He tried to save her because he wants to bone her. And he put her in peril. [23:11:05] <MousaThe14> Seems kind of hyperbolic of the Atlanteans [23:11:31] <Bocaj> Outer space or under the sea or inside the earth, everyone is jerks [23:11:31] <MousaThe14> I mean, They took the city with no casualties so obviously they don't mind not having humans killed [23:11:38] <Wackd> I mean. He wasn't responsible this time? [23:11:45] <Wackd> His fiancée tried to throw Sue out an airlock. [23:11:54] <Wackd> Against his express wishes. [23:13:12] <Wackd> This seems...unlikely

[23:13:55] <Bocaj> Reed: "I should definitely take an underage boy into space with me." [23:14:42] <Wackd> WHO KNOWS WHAT EVIL LURKS IN THE HEARTS OF FEMALES

[23:14:44] <Phantomwoman> oh [23:15:06] <Wackd> (I think a better question is why does Sue have such godawful taste in men) [23:15:08] <Phantomwoman> Oh wow [23:15:10] <Zarek> As long as females are carrying a martini tray, darling. *clink* [23:15:30] <Bocaj> god the gender politics in comics are, have been and can be atrocious [23:15:43] <Phantomwoman> Yes [23:17:02] <Wackd> Oh hey, max, you'll like this. [23:17:09] <maxwellelvis> Ooh [23:17:37] <Wackd> They're redoing the Spidey vs. Four encounter from Amazing Spider-Man #1 with the extra pages in this annual, because the fans have requested it! [23:18:01] <maxwellelvis> Neato [23:18:26] <Mukora> I just realized I should probably make a smaller-scale version of planet generation from SWN for this game [23:18:28] <maxwellelvis> "Why'd you break in here?" "I wanna join you guys! How much do you pay?" [23:19:08] <Mukora> I don't want rules for generating an entire galaxy but I do want the option to just like. Procedurally generate planets [23:19:23] <Wackd> Hey Pete, save it for Johnny!

[23:19:46] <maxwellelvis> heh [23:20:09] <maxwellelvis> Is the art recycled or entirely redrawn? And if the latter, who's doing the art? [23:20:59] <Wackd> Kirby's redrawn it with Ditko on inks [23:21:04] <maxwellelvis> Ah. [23:21:12] <maxwellelvis> I could guess. [23:21:27] <maxwellelvis> Spidey was one character Jack just... couldn't really do. [23:21:31] <Wackd> Peter prefers to be the one pitching, Johnny

[23:22:09] <maxwellelvis> "Man, do the Mets need me or what?" [23:22:57] <Wackd> So that's it for the annual. Back to the series proper!