#like I don't hate people that ship Jayroy I just don't like the ship

[youhavelessproof]

I'm not gonna all out, just full warning, but I do wanna make a couple points. (<- this was apparently a half-life. I talked a lot, but I technically didn't say everything I could've.)

1. Slade was made to be Dick's villain. like he was technically a Titans' villain, but let's be real. he was made to contrast and mirror Dick's relationship with Bruce. Deathstroke eventually just became the boogeyman for DC, but he is first and foremost there for Dick.

2. There is much less of a power dynamic in Sladick than people think there is when we're talking about the comics. Dick is younger and that can be problematic, but like. pretty sure he was an adult when they met. (19 I think. because that was how old Dick was when he originally became Nightwing.) DC keeps pushing Dick's age back, so in the current continuity who the fuck knows, but y'know.

Slade has been able to beat Dick in fights before, but mostly when Dick was younger. most their fights from, like, Nightwing '96 on either don't really have a winner or Dick wins. Slade may have won a couple more recently, I don't really know, but they're pretty evenly matched. that's kinda the point.

Slade respects Dick enough that during said Nightwing '96 run he actually tells Dick when he has a contract in Blud out of respect.

I'm not gonna show panels for everything, I just think that one is important to cite directly.

3. I'm not gonna over this on for long at all but. Renegade. Dick was not forced to be Renegade. Dick being forced to be Slade's apprentice only happened in the 2003 cartoon. never happened in the comics. Renegade was Dick's choice and he had a lot of reasons for it.

4. Slade is obsessed with Dick. has been for a long time. however that obsession is not about killing Dick. I don't know if this is a misconception, but I'm gonna put it here. not to say Slade would never kill Dick, he tried in Dark Crisis, but it's more complicated than that. again, Slade respects Dick and really respects Dick's strength. to the point of being mad when Dick does not live up to expectations. (see what I mean by mirroring Bruce in certain ways?)

in no way am I saying Dick and Slade are healthy, I think they would make each other worse (affectionate), but they aren't what a lot of people seem to think they are.

Dick is very capable of dealing with Slade, that's why Slade likes him so much. they have less of a power imbalance and more a power struggle.

anyway this is longer than I thought it would be but onto Jayroy. this isn't gonna be positive, but I'll try and be reasonable and not aggressive about it.

Roy was made directly based off of Dick. Speedy intro-ed into comics in 1941 after Robin in 1940. they still have similarities in their origins, but it was even more obvious back then. though Speedy was clearly not as beloved as Robin has he apparently disappeared for a bit. point is: while they weren't made for each other, Dick and Roy have been connected since their creation.

now, I don't think that fact in and of itself discredits Jayroy at all. ships can come from anywhere and it doesn't really matter if Dick and Roy are always going to be the best friend/rivals they are because that doesn't mean Roy and Jason can't be together too.

however.

the New 52/Rebirth/post-Flashpoint whatever continuity has not been kind to Roy. it has not been kind to a lot of characters, but I find Roy's case especially bad. (partly because he's one of my favorite characters.)

I really need to stress that Roy was not underutilized before RHATO. post-crisis Roy was extremely fleshed out and interesting and a very developed character. he was not a character that had been forgotten. yes addiction was a part of his stories, but he was so much more than that.

I don't want to suddenly turn this into a character study, but when I think of Roy I think of how interesting of a case study he is in loyalty. I think of how kind and caring he is. I think of how much he respects heroes, especially ones that have been doing longer than he has, but how that doesn't change his ability to call them out for their shit.

RHATO did not take characters that had nothing. it took Roy and Kori, characters that have had a lot of love put into their characters, and did whatever it wanted with them. that is fine for fanfic, but for it to be in a published comic by DC is frankly sad.

I don't really wanna talk about Jason's characterization here, but I do want to hit on one key point. Roy absolutely still loved Cheshire after shit she did, but there was a reason he did not stay with her. Roy does not feel good about loving her, but he cannot control his heart.

I've heard Roy and Chesh's relationship used to fight for and against Jayroy in every way but the key fact is this: even if Roy loved Jason, it would not feel good for him.

Roy is someone that loves people in spite of their flaws. he sees them clearly, but he finds it more important to focus on the good of people than the bad. not that it's black and white, but that is his general thinking.

I believe in the right circumstances, Roy would try and help Jason. would try and lead him on the right path. (if we ignore Jason's actions towards Dick (someone Roy is terrifyingly devoted to) and Mia (part of Roy's found family.)) however, I also think it would destroy him inside.

all that to say: ship whatever you want. I don't like Jayroy because of how it came about and some other things, but I think they are interesting things you could do with it. I just ask that you don't vote for it because it's the healthier option.

first of all, I've already talked about the connotations of "healthy" in a comic universe, but also it's just not. Jason would not be good for Roy and that's okay. ships don't have to be healthy to be good.

and I would also appreciate people stop erasing Dick and Roy's relationship (even if it's all platonic) but I think that's asking a bit too much. DC seems happy to erase that all away. :(

also sorry that I talked so long what the fuck.

tl;dr comic Sladick isn't healthy but it's also not what a lot of fandom seems to think it is and Jayroy started because DC decided fuck Roy's character so please look into post-crisis Roy he's a very good boy.

ship whatever you want, this is just some information and opinions. o7

Top AO3 Batfamily Ships Bracket: Losers Round 1

Are you sad your favorite ship lost in the first round? Don't worry! They still have a chance to win the Losers Bracket, a mini tournament for all ships that got eliminated in the first round.

[erinwantstowrite]

is this a safe space to admit i don't really like jayroy,,,,,,

[glitter-stained]

Ngl I feel bad -like genuinely- for people who can't enjoy characters or ships because of a canon OOC writing. And that's not in an "I pity you" sort of way, really. That almost happened to me: when I first got into the fandom, one of the first comics I read was Lost Days, which was unfortunately my introduction to Talia. Fortunately, I was very new to the fandom and her character and my perception of her was soon rectified when I found out quickly that this was OOC racist writing and I didn't really get the time to develop any discomfort with her character before my view was corrected (thank you, tumblr dc fandom who people like to denigrate) but I could have not been so lucky. First impressions are important, and I totally understand not being able to get past your introduction to a character. What if the first thing I first read about Dick was his time as a cop, or Steph doing blackface in a white saviour-ish run, or Tim being violently misogynistic? (pretty sure all of those are because of Chuck Dixon, fuck you Chuck Dixon). What if the first thing I read about Jason was one of so many of his terrible runs, he's my favourite blorbo and I could have been like "who tf is this 40 years old mf shooting children in the chest" don't think my image of him would have ever fully recovered. Same with ships I understand the frustration of liking a character and being so disappointed by their portrayal in a team-up that it disgusts you from the ship. People who hate Jayroy/Joyfire because of Lobdell's writing, who can't deal with StephCass after Batgirls 2022, etc I get it. And I'm sorry those writers took away the joy and pleasure you could have had in exploring those characters and the dynamics between them. And it could still happen! With any new character/relationship there's that risk. And I'm not gonna lie, I'm pretty scared of giving the writers that power over me. Like yeah, I get it that's the point of writing, but who decides to give Morrison's Talia more power over Barr's Talia: dc editorial? The chronology upon which you stumble upon a comic? Sheer coincidence?

Absolutely terrifying. So many of these characters and ships have so much potential, and I think that's why I cling so much to the version of them that exists in my head like no, leave my Talia alone, you won't touch my Stephcass, get your grubby paws away from my Jayroy. It's like an everyday mantra "they can't take the sapphics from me, they can't take the sapphics from me, they can't..." Anyway, cheers to fanfic and AUs and the handful of mutuals that enjoy my personal brand of characterization cherry-picked from the quality comics I enjoy.

(But also it goes both way. Your introduction to the character/ship is very different from mine and mine is very different from yours, and you don't get to police shipping or even just shit on the ship just because it isn't for you. I'm weary of this mentality I've been seeing of "you shouldn't ship that because they don't interact in canon"/"their only canon interactions are ooc" because like, yeah? The point of shipping is not just to explore preexisting dynamics it's also often "i think those would complete/oppose eachother in an interesting way", that's the point. Don't yuck eachother's yums because of Scott Lobdell, do you really wanna give him that much power over your life?).

[lisholoz]

Jesus idk where the sudden influx of hate is coming from but your art gives me so much joy, i love it, please keep up the amazing work 💖💖💖

I know it's mad! Thank you so much for your support♥️♥️ I'm still baffled what the issue people have is I feel my art is kind of wholesome?? 😂 Obviously nobody should ever receive death threats over ships but I'm still baffled what's the issue people have with my art??? Jason is in his twenties and to my knowledge has little to no interactions with Slade before his time as Red Hood where they have a whopping like THREE interactions which have all been positive 😂 . I think maybe people just don't like messy relationships. Personally I watched a lot of EastEnders growing up so I LOVE soap opera level dramatic relationships. Let Jason Todd have the messiest yet somehow healthiest relationship with his ex-girlfriends dad / brothers tormentor . How are you gonna give that man severe daddy issues then NOT want me to draw him being dicked down by an old man. Genuinely even though I don't ship any batcest myself I'll firmly plant myself with that group of people cuz I know they aren't psychos lmfao. I saw people tryna cancel JAYROY the other day cuz Jason and Roy knew eachother as teenagers. Mind boggling!!

[liedownquisition]

Oh boy. You know, I really love how you've cut some of those panels out. Here's a little more context on Oliver very clearly laying a solid chunk of what's wrong with Jason at Bruce's feet:

And you know what, you're right! No one's ever obligated to forgive everyone or anyone ever! But also guess what! You're also ignoring like... a lot of stuff actually. You think the batarang is the only thing people have an issue with.... as if it exists in a vacuum as the only thing Bruce has ever done wrong to Jason ever? Because most people aren't so much mad over a single incident as we are over it happening again and again and again.

RHATO Rebirth v2 #25

Batman and Robin uhhh Issue 6 I think? Going off the omnibus, sorry

Batman #138* *yes I'm aware that Bruce is being influenced by "Zur-En-Arr" in this, but honestly? I've always felt that this & the Batman & Robin one were some of the more in-character examples of Bruce's flaws manifesting in abusive ways

Or maybe some of these are too recent. Let's talk my personal favorite little beef that I like to contrast with Ollie:

Batman #424-425 The Diplomat's Son & Consequences

Ollie, on the other hand, when his charge commits a murder that Ollie thought could be prevented:

Now there's something to be said for how the writers for these stories had very different opinions of the sidekicks that were responsible, Starlin, for example, fucking hated Jason (Well, Robin in general) and wanted him dead, and it's deliberately set up to be a question of whether or not Jason actually did. Regardless, Bruce pretty cleanly absolves himself of any wrongdoing in his upbringing of Jason, whereas Ollie takes responsibility for Mia being in the position that she even could/would make that kind of call. And at this point, Oliver had Mia with him for a lot less time than Bruce had had Jason.

If it was Just the batarang, then, frankly, I think it's be a lot less controversial. This isn't even everything OR the worst panels from those incidents!!! I'm just cherrypicking, just like you were. And you know what, let me add this:

According to Bruce, Ollie's a pretty forgiving guy, it looks like. And if we're taking more Rebirth into account, Oliver was pretty chill about Cheshire hanging out with his family, and she's definitely caused her fair share of problems for the family and world at large on scales Jason has yet to even touch*, regardless of if she's Lian's mom. *some of Jade's crimes are dubiously canon, but with the reality mashing from Convergence in a way all of it is.

Ollie is a lot of hot air. I love the man, and he'll rip anyone and everyone a new one at the drop of a hat for any godsdamned reason. Pretty sure he's called Bruce and Barry and Hal all fascists before, so he has no hesitation in saying the absolute worst about people while... still having a relatively decent relationship with them in the long run, actually. Hal even used to be a villain for a while and Oliver was forced to kill him and now they're buds again. An alternate version of Hal that is STILL that villain continues to torment Oliver and his family.

Would Jason need to actually work to earn forgiveness from the Arrows? Probably. But he's still friends with Roy now (yes, CURRENTLY. AS HE HAS BEEN FOR OVER A DECADE he hasn't even been features in much w/ Roy lately but it has been REFERENCED), and even if it was small that olive branch of helping Roy and Lian reunite (and their general friendship, actually) isn't something that Ollie would just brush off, just as he wouldn't just brush off the events of Seeing Red.

But, in the grand scheme of things, kidnapping her, sending him on a wild goose chase across town, "having a talk" (mia's words) then letting her leave unharmed, and blowing up a building behind her is honestly small potatoes in comparison to the Repeated incidents of textbook abusive relationships that goes on between Bruce and Jason. (And I cannot overemphasize how little Mia was injured by this incident.)

Of course Olie was talking shit about Jason in the interim, Red Hood is incredibly dangerous, and he's scared for her safety. You can SEE how stumped he is by her coming out of this completely unharmed. Plus! This is hot on the heels of her return after the Dr Light Incident, and Ollie has every right to be scared out of his fucking mind.

But when it comes down to it, Mia Was Not Harmed. I will not stop saying that. Because in the world of villains and superheroes and red Hood doing significantly worse shit to other characters, this is NOTHING. Even actually within Arrow comics???? This WAS NOTHING.

And oh my god "He did the same thing Joker did" okay so where do I start with this

a) that was the point, obviously.

b) he didn't, actually.

c) that was the worst description of both incidents I've ever read in my entire life. Joker didn't "take a kid from his father and torture him and make him doubt his place in his family" unless you're talking about the fucking Arkham 'verse!

c2) actually let's break down that description: "took a kid from their father figure" Joker didn't take Jason, he was sold out by his mom. "Beat them up" understatement, but go off. "Tortured them mentally about their place in their family" not really. Joker just beat him nearly to death laughing for the most part, Jason's doubts about it came after he came back to life and saw news that Joker was still alive.

d) hmmm I wonder who said it was just Jason messing with Bruce...

Hm. Yeah. Bruce is definitely the most reliable source for Jason's intentions. I mean, was it generally to spite Bruce? Probably, yeah. But Jason's very good at multitasking and layering his intentions.

e) once again, Mia was not harmed. Jason spent most of their sparring match on the defensive, And only hit Her, physically, like, four times? and all of them in retaliation to her getting in close and hitting him first*? (And, trust me, if Jason can pull the hypercompetent bullshit that is "Seemingly shooting wildly but managing to hit nothing but THE STRING OF MIA'S BOW while also accounting for how she'd dodge" he could do sooooo much worse.) Notably, he briefly had her pinned to the floor with his hands around her throat... and then let up just after he held it long enough to make his point *Note: this is not a justification, she had every reason to fight back with everything she had and what Jason does is very fucked up on like...a normalscale. But it's worth noting he was Very Visibly and outright explicitly "teaching" her throughout it and it's soooo much less than any other villain has done to her.

This doesn't read to me "Making her doubt her place in her family" so much as "Emphasizing their similarities" this is the kind of speech the villain gives when he's trying to recruit the hero. (something which, hilariously, he mocked the idea of in UTH) But you know, all interpretations of canon are valid, although...

Funny enough, this also is very much not what Joker Did, actually. I mean, I don't recall Joker letting Jason have ANY agency at all, really. Just started breaking bones.

Now, I didn't post all of them because if I kept going it'd just be the whole comic, but yeah he does very much air out his daddy issues and compare them to her relationship with Ollie. It's clear that while he does know a lot about Mia... he also doesn't know much about Ollie. At least, not personality wise. Not how much genuinely better he is at this whole parenting gig.

This is so, so much easier to forgive, conceptually, than everything that goes on in the Batfam both from and to Jason and from and to OTHER MEMBERS OF THE BATFAM without involving Jason at all!!! (Birthdays, amirite?)

And, honestly, I'm probably seeing a lot of the posts that you are, and the ones making the Jason & Ollie bonding posts? Aren't really the same ones going on about the Batarang Incident. We've moved on to the rest of the, gestures above, Patterns of Abuse. If we discuss anything past post-crisis at all. (Speaking of post crisis, I actually remember Jason doing a pretty big solid for one of Oliver's close friends... hmmmmmm. Oh, yeah, he helped out when Black Lightning was framed for murder by Slade so good that even HE thought he did it! Granted, that was pre-Mia. So he's not going to stop being wary, but it's not like Jason hasn't done good things that affected people close to Ollie either.)

And if Jason's emotions aren't an excuse, than, well, Bruce's aren't really an excuse either, are they?

Jason's not even the only one who gets abusive treatment from Bruce. And regardless of your personal interpretations of whether or not it's a valid Batman characterization, after multiple writers have written this kind of thing across multiple continuities, there comes a point when you have to accept that this is a genuine flaw that Bruce carries and find a way to reconcile it with everything else.

And if we're going off of canon-gospel, Jason's own behavior has steadily trended towards more and more fangless, more palatable, in a way that given exposure Oliver would probably tolerate, considering all the others that he tends to tolerate. He still seems to regard the Batclan in general as a dumpster fire, "None of my kids would take a shot at me" he says, completely correct, while Batman's kids wouldn't even hesitate. He rolled up with unsolicited advice about Batman's relationships multiple times, all correct, and gotten shot down or ignored as if his significantly fewer incidents of being a shitty parent that he's very self-aware about somehow make him unqualified to speak at all!

Sometimes the reason that people are writing this, is because they like Ollie more than Bruce, because he knows how to actually apologize and actually do better. And trying to ignore canon in favor of making "good dad" Bruce stories, can wear you down when you just keep seeing Bruce depicted worse and worse and worse, and so maybe you want to start seeing the people trapped in Bruce's vortex move away from that.

And among those in that vortex, Jason has it the worst. Like, this isn't a competition. Some of the shitty stuff that Bruce does to him could be argued to be just responses to what he does himself (victim-blamey, but you know what let's pretend it makes things okay) like uth, or RHATOv2#25 But... Batman & Robin? "Oh Bruce was upset about Damian."

What was it you said? Oh, that's right: "Your feelings being valid don't excuse the harm you do, guys."

Gotham War? I'm sure you'll make excuses for Bruce there. I mean, maybe implementing it was Zur, but, frankly, that "Failsafe"? That has "Bruce genuinely thought this" written all over it. Hypocrite. Considering what his response was to the last time someone messed with his mind.

Oliver... kind of is the canon version of fanon's "good dad Bruce" tbh. And sometimes people make that connection, see those parallels, and want to play with that. It's just a what if.

You know that thing about tragedies about how if anything happened any differently it could have been prevented, that someone could have been saved? Ollie fucks up, but, fundamentally, if Ollie had been in Bruce's position, he would have saved Jason, not by doing the impossible of making it there in time, but by putting Jason first and having healthy communication lmao. Because Bruce very explicitly didn't! He didn't want to talk about it because he was scared of the truth! Or, he was scared of what he believed to be the truth, which would be that Jason had killed. And that it wasn't Bruce's fault. Because it's never Bruce's fault if he failed to raise Jason in that way that took that instinct out. It's not his responsibility to have realized, as the adult in the situation, that Jason maybe shouldn't have been exposed to so much rape and murder at an impressionable age. It's not his responsibility to keep better track of his barely teenaged son who's going through severe trauma right in front of him because they failed to enact justice on someone.

And Bruce had a lot to say about what he thought about Jason that varied and, honestly, rang more as projecting his own issues onto Jason than matching up what was actually happening on the page. Better meta-writers than I have discussed how rarely we get Jason's POV in these situations, that we're TOLD a lot about Jason by everyone else who has an agenda to frame Jason in a certain way.

If you hate Jason Todd, or hate jayroy, then block the damn tags & add it to a content filter bcs generally the latter is always marked. if it's someone on your dash reblogging them and it's not tagged/hiding it then ask them to tag it so you can filter it or stop following them idc. Don't pretend your cherry picking of canon and willful out-of-context misinterpretations is any better than anyone else's.

I have seen many posts and fanfics who are going "Oliver works with Jason to annoy Bruce!", "Oliver protecting Jason from Bruce!", "Oliver deciding to annoy Bruce by being like a father figure to Jason!", "Oliver being so happy for Roy and Jason being together!", and etc, but in canon, Oliver HATES his guts.

Here is a compilation of Oliver thinking or talking about Jason from Seeing Red, which is the first Red Hood's story after Under The Red Hood, and the one time Oliver and Jason interracted in canon (if I'm not mistaken, they never did since):

For the last one, he is talking to Bruce and Jason is one of the "every damned manner of sociopathic fruit fly".

And like, Oliver and the Arrowfam are 100% justified in their dislike or hate. He literally pulled the same shit Joker did on them: took a teenager away from her father figure, beat her up, torture her mentally about her place in her new family and her usefulness, make her and her guardian think he was going to kill her, explode the building she was in in front of her father figure to make him believe he was too late... And all of that to get to Batman. He doesn't give a shit about Oliver or Mia, it's about Batman, it's about Bruce. Just like when the Joker killed him, it wasn't about him, it was about Batman.

And it doesn't matter that Jason changed, because others aren't obligated to forgive someone because they redeemed themselves. I do not believe that Oliver is fine with Jason, he is probably not very happy he hangs around Roy, and does NOT want him near Mia ever again, and certainly not his granddaughter, Liam. That's the man that kidnapped his daughter because he was mad at his own father, nope. He knows how it is to be annoyed with the Bat, and it doesn't justify this.

I can hear y'all seeing disregarding canon is fine, and yes, sure. But also, folks, you are such hypocrites if you want to keep in that Bruce threw a batarang at Jason's neck, and erase how it was an accident ("Batman doesn't make mistakes!" Firstly, he does, canonically, make huge mistakes sometimes. Secondly, the man was an emotional wreck, his son had come back to life and had been killing people and his other son, Dick, was maybe dead because his city just exploded. He is human, not a machine! Thirdly, it is simply fucking stupid for a character who is against killing to willingly inflict such a mortal wound.), but Jason being a huge asshole to others is either erased or excusable (your feelings being valid don't excuse the harm you do, guys). Talk about favoritism.

[darknesswillfall]

Fuck you Jaysteph haters on tiktok and why

So, I was peacefully scrolling tiktok a while ago and my page and I saw a video about ships etc, you know, normal stuff. I check the comments and people are going on how shipping Jason and Stephanie is bad? Weird? Considered batcest of all things?

And I was fucking baffled. Taken to ancestral tree, slapped by my great-great-great-great-grandmother and came back.

Because what the fuck?

I don't ship them per say, because #Jayroy is one of my favourite ships of this fandom, but you know, different tastes and all. If I see a good Jaysteph fic I'll read it, because it's fun and interesting and usually well written. And that's fine.

But when I saw some of those takes - mind you a couple of weeks ago - they just forced itself into my memory. So I'm gonna go one by one and tell you why the fuck this is wrong. I wish I could find the original tiktok, because god I wanna say this to the face of those people.

I saw a comment that Jason is way too old for Steph. And ym, no?

There is 3/4 years difference, depending when and which canon you're going for. It doesn't help that Jason was dead for more than 6 months, but hey, lets settle on 4. I know we don't like to talk about ages in Batfam and how nobody is really ever questioned here, but if Jason is 26ish that would put Steph at 22ish. In the worst case scenario.

Really they're more of a 2 year age gap , since most people put Tim at Jason at 3 years and Steph is 1 year older than Tim.

Another thing - one of the most popular ships for Steph is her and Cassandra Cain, who is THE SAME FUCKING AGE as Jason. Or even older in some runs. If you don't have problem with StephCass , but do have one with JaySteph and say it's because of age difference I would check if you're not infantalizing WlW relationship or Cass, for whatever reason.

The other one said "but they're like siblings"

Fuck you too, random internet commenter on tiktok.

You have 2 options here.

Either 1. Treat StephCass also as Batcest, move on with your life and shut up.

OR

You acknowledge that Steph was never adopted by Bruce, she is not his daugther and other people seeing her more like a big sister is not an indicator that she is their sister. Tim sees Barbara as his older sister, but does that mean that Dickbabs is inherently incestual? No.

They are not siblings, therefore it is not incest.

I get that you can just don't like the ship. That's okay. Go see the content for the ship you like.

But going on and on how a ship is bad for moral reasons and being wrong at that?

I'll buy you a one way ticket to hell and personally call Satan to tell him that you're being a little bitch on the internet.

That's actually my main two points. Anyway, I need to go to work and be a productive human being who doesn't hate on totally normal ships on tiktok.

And remember friends and my sworn enemies - you are responsible for your online experience. Don't like, don't read - amen.

[necrotic-nephilim]

Any ships you don’t like in the batfam fandom that is popular?

OOOH this is such a fun question because I have quite a few

StephCass - i'll be honest this is one of those ships where the fandom ruined it for me. because 2000s StephCass is an elite dynamic, they care for each other so deeply. but the fandom has been intent on defanging and purifying this ship. i don't know *why* but StephCass seems most popular with the anti-Batcest crowd who get very mad if you compare it to ships they deem Batcest. i have an entire meta commentary on this in my drafts I'll likely never post discussing why the only reason StephCass gets the pass for not being Batcest ties directly into misogyny (because the women of the Batfam need to exist as love interests first, not family members so Steph was never going to truly get to exist as a "full" Batfam member so long as she could remain a viable love interest for Tim, and the same can apply to Babs, Helena, and even Cass in some cases) and that just sours me to it. like if i want yuri in Batfam i think there are far more interesting/fucked up ships for Steph like Babs/Steph or Helena/Steph. and when it comes to what i'd actually like to see in canon, i don't want to see Steph relegated to love interest of a Batfamily member, even if it's queer. let her date and exist outside of Gotham the way every other Batfam member gets to, DC *please*.

Bruce/Selina - i can't fully articulate why this ship isn't my thing, it just isn't. i think i just can't conceivably agree with Selina letting go of so many of her fundamental morals and beliefs for the sake of a man, even one she loves such as Bruce. ironically, i think that's one of the few things Gotham War got right about these two. the only canon love interest i like for Bruce is Zatanna and i mourn we'll never get much of that.

JayRoy - i will admit when i was newer to DC the first comics i picked up for Jason were all New-52 and i shipped this. but now that i'm a pre-Flashpoint truther and i've actually read well-written Roy Harper comics, i only see the flaws in this ship. ngl if ppl were actually fun and interesting with it, playing with the idea of Roy knowing Jason as Robin and still seeing him as just Dick's little brother who's gone a little mental, it *could* be fun. but this Red Hood & the Outlaws (2011) and Red Hood/Arsenal (2015) dynamic *butchers* the fuck out of Roy and strips him of everything interesting. and even as a Batfamily stan, my number one pet peeve is when other DC characters get *butchered* in a Batfamily character's book just for the sake of propping up the Bat as some kind of savior. free Roy Harper from this mans.

Bruce/Oliver - we could be here all day if i listed all the Bruce ships i don't like, but i figure this one has to be included. because oh my god either the people shipping this *really* don't understand Oliver Queen or they just hate his ass because why would you subject Oliver to this man. he can't *stand* Bruce. i really hate the popular BruOliie shipping dynamic of like "oh they were boarding school besties" because if you want that, you *should* like Bruce/Zatanna, not these two. Oliver just always gets butchered in these fics and i won't stand for it.

Tim/Bernard - the ESSAYS i could write on this ship and why i dislike it. the fucking *fear* DC (and most popular media tbh) has with depicting queer relationships as anything other than totally perfect and cute for fear of accusations of homophobia has stripped this ship of *any* real grit. Bernard is a non-character in Tim Drake: Robin, he exists to cheer Tim on and prop him up and just be The Boyfriend. we occasionally get glimpses of an interesting character with really interesting trauma and nothing is *done* with it bc at the end of the day, Tim and Bernard must be perfect and cute. what's fun about Tim is he is the *worst* boyfriend alive. that boy is *ass* at dating. all of his relationships are rich with conflict and yet the moment he dates a guy suddenly all of his flaws vanish? i hate it. i mourn what this could've been if we kept messy Tim Drake and had a Bernard who was actually informed by his trauma. DC please let gays be messy again. also of all of Tim's 90s/00s friends to bring back as a love interest, Bernard Dowd was just a *bizarre* fucking choice. Sebastian Ives was *right* there come on now.

Any Crossover Ship - look if crossovers are your cup of tea i'm happy for you but oh my god if i have to see that little green ghost boy or that ladybug girl in the Batfam one more time i think i may explode. i have a lot of thoughts on *why* i think specifically Danny Phantom and Miraculous Ladybug get crossed over as often as they do with the Batfam, but i don't think anyone wants to year that. my only exception to this is Jason/Bucky Barnes, but it *has* to be comics!Bucky. like. Judd Winick's Jason and Ed Brubaker's Bucky would hatefuck and that i wish to see it. any other crossover ship (especially the Peter Parker ones that seem to be rising in popularity) just do *not* do it for me.

honestly besides that i don't think i dislike many ships. (aside from being super opinionated on Bruce ships, but that's mostly bc ppl will use him to butcher the character they ship him with) there are some ships i'm neutral to because i simply do not know enough to have an opinion (like Dick/Wally). i guess the only Batcest ship i'm not particular to is Bruce/Damian, but I wouldn't say that one is popular nor would i say i dislike it, just that it's not my cup of tea. most Batcest ships click for me in one way or another because i like their Weird dnyamics. i guess i could also say i dislike most ships that have come out of Young Justice (tv) because. oh my *god* why were those group of characters put together on a team. it's baffling. but even then it's not disliking those ships, it's moreso disliking that show's depiction of those characters so. everything is really dependant on the canon context for me!

[zeroducks-2]

DickWally hate tends to be "HE HAS A WIFE!!!" and about removing Linda and JayRoy is either age gap or stealing Dick's friends or removing Jade from the equation. Actually most of the M/M ships I've seen people able to ship with no issues are canon gay ships, popular ones all tend to just get sneered at. I like an unpopular character who I want to be gay, and fandom insists that I have to ship him with his canon gay friend/enemy/acquaintance (all his other friends are married to women and husband theft is illegal), but also if you ship the canon gay outside his canon boyfriend you get harassed.

It might be people insisting on canon to the detriment of everything else, or it might just be homophobia being covered by the fact that the characters are canonically straight, but it's definitely making fandom worse.

I KNEW IT. I fucking knew that the whole "If you divorce the M/F canon ship it means you're sexist and a misogynist!" was being crafted by antis for antis, and yes anon, it ABSOLUTELY is a homophobic thing.

These fuckers love to hide behind a righteous cover and this is only the last one they cooked up. Like imagine pretending you're doing activism while harassing someone because they don't ship the canon ass heterosexual relationship, which nine times out of them is boring as fuck, done VERY POORLY and with no respect for the female characters who are treated like pretty potted plants to keep in the background (no hate towards RoyJade or Wallinda in particular, but it happens MANY TIMES that the female character isn't really a character but just a love interest with the depth of a cardboard cutout).

Fandom has always been about deviations from the canon. It's always been about "what if these two characters with lots of romantic and/or sexual tension did something about it", about "what if all this queerbaiting actually went somewhere", about queer folks being able to explore their identities and kinks with the safety of a space in which they aren't treated like freaks.

Fuck these people. If they care so much about how female characters in medias, I invite them to go yell at DC for how it attempted to erase Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown from the main comicbook continuity post reboot, for how it treated (and keeps treating) Barbara Gordon by infantilizing her and stripping her of all her hard fought victories as a disabled vigilante, for ignoring Wonder Woman and not giving her satisfying plotlines, for treating Starfire like a dumb slut in Lobdell's run, and I could go on and on and on but the truth is - truth that we all already know - these people don't give one single fuck about female characters or women in general and they only care about finding new and convoluted ways to push other (queer!) fans out of their safe spaces, policing their behavior and erasing queerness from fandom in general in the name of "protecting" the sanctity of fictional fucking characters.

I am going to start blocking people who keep reblogging the whole "if you divorce the m/f ship you're sexist" parade because I'm really tired, and I hope everyone else quickly catches on and blocks these assholes too.

[devine-fem]

I do not know why people are so obsessed with replacing JayRoy (bad) with DickRoy (also bad). I like toxic relationships as much as the next guy (which DickRoy definitely is) but Dick having, on multiple occasions, thrown Roy's addiction in his face is not my preferred toxic. Maybe I just have bad luck with comics and missed the really good DickRoy but they are another not great ship that fans act like is better for Roy.

It isn't. Both have mistreated Roy. Both are centering a Bat Boy over his own character. If I want a toxic ship with Roy, Cheshire is right there. We don't need to bring out another Bat Boy for it. He has plenty of relationships that don't focus on bats. (Also Sarge Steel, maybe.)

Scared to answer this because I think Dickroy shippers have always been a little… agressive…? but I just personally think some characters deserve to be pulled away from the batfamily for obvious reasons. The post your refering to I was just saying that personally I never really understood the appeal of hating on Jayroy and then shipping Dickroy when it still feels like it’s not a healthy Roy ship.

I hate Rhato as much as the next person but more so I’m not at all impartial to any flaws the batfamily has… Dick, Jason, Tim… they all can tend to really kill a character when paired with someone and it’s frustrating though I do love Dick and Jason but Dick is not as mentally stable as people think he is…

Personally, I always just liked Roy but with his family, the arrowfam and if anything I want him to be with someone who loves him because he deserves it and perhaps someone who’s good with kids too. He’s just one of those characters I really pathetically wanna see happy, that’s all. If you ship either of these things it’s fine because the substance is all there but personally, that’s just my opinion.

[zed-sabre]

I started getting random hate messages, anon and not, after I posted a JayRoy fic prompt. It was the first time I had ever experienced anything remotely negative on this sort of scale while in the DC fandom. And of all things, it was over a ship I had only just recently found out about. A few days later, that same person and a mutual of theirs started targeting anyone who made posts tagging Jason with Roy, even if it wasn't ship related and just sent endless waves of vitriol. I've since blocked them, but unfortunately I do see them crop up now and again when a blog I follow receives the same treatment. Unfortunately, I've only seen Arrowfam/die hard Jason Todd haters engage in this kind of behavior and it just fucking sucks, you know? I do like the ship, but I also love Jason and Roy being friends, too. But for some reason, sometimes just saying you like them platonically together is enough to send people like this into bizarre and completely unwarranted hate spirals. It's absolutely strange behavior and I honestly don't understand how treating people like shit when you can just block and filter out the ship tags or even just the Jason Todd/Red Hood filter would be enough to avoid triggering such an insane reaction entirely.

it really is an unacceptable way for... i mean, I ASSUME they have to be adults to have such strong opinions on old comic books? but for anyone to act.

really representing their faves poorly. honestly, that kind of activity makes me like stuff OUT OF SPITE even harder.

i hope you've been able to curate your space and enjoy what you enjoy in more peace since then.

[ultimate-marysue]

I made one post tagged exclusively as Jayroy (not even the individual character names) and someone came to complain about the ship in a very passive aggressive way and it's like...beloved, what are you doing at the devil's sacrament??? Did you jump on the tag to hate on the ship when you could just block it??

People on social media fascinate me. Is as if you entered a cake eating contest and complained about how you dislike cake and it's bad for you... Okay, valid. I actually think you should be allowed to dislike stuff I find enjoyable but like... Don't come into my house to side eye me about itm

[bi-bats]

for the ask game - JayTim obviously!! or, if that's been asked already, maybe JayRoy?

YESSSSSSSS okay I'm gonna do both ships, because neither has been asked yet!

We're going to start with Jaytim though, because obviously I ship it 😂

What made you ship it?

There was a fic by Timmyjaybird that I read that had unrequited Jaytim (different main pairing with Tim), and their dynamic piqued my interest. I decided to click into the ship page, read strange fear I ain't felt for years by sister, and then it was over for me. If you know me, you'll know I always say that all it takes is reading one good fic for a ship and I'll start shipping it. Plus I'm a Tim kinnie and Jason is so so hot, so theres definitely a projection character/attraction character thing going on

What are your favorite things about the ship?

All the ways I can play with them. They can be fucked up, unstable, unwell, obsessive (on both sides). They can be bitter and angry and fall into each other (which I tend to favor in longer works). They can be soft and sweet and gentle and forgiving. They can be blushing and nervous and uncertain. They can be petty and annoyed and really into riling each other up. It ALWAYS works. And also, there's something I find so fascinating about the way they accidentally helped create each other. Tim as Robin happened mostly because of Jason, and Jason becoming Red Hood and going after Bruce gets set into motion because he finds out about Tim. They're a feedback loop and neither of them is happy with the results. Okay, I have to stop here before this turns into a dissertation. Or before I spoil a future fic which I already had to erase a spoiler for so next question

Is there an unpopular opinion you have about the ship?

A little bit? I think my only opinion that some people disagree with (but isn't necessarily unpopular) is that I don't like the whole Pit Madness thing. When Jason came back he had a fucked up plan, and he wasn't entirely in his right mind, but he justified it. He was doing the wrong thing for the right reasons when it came to Tim (being mad at Bruce because he's going to get Tim killed and then he almost kills Tim to prove the point). It's something I explore in my fics at almost every opportunity, because I think it's too easy to let Jason off the hook by blaming it on the pit. It also frustrates me because it doesn't really matter whether or not he meant to hurt Tim, because he did. And I like watching him take responsibility for the knowledge that he wanted to hurt Tim, and being forced to confront the realization that his logic at the time involved a lot of mental gymnastics, and grapple with the idea that it might not be a thing he can fix and that even if it is, Tim probably shouldn't forgive him, and definitely shouldn't get involved with him. Okay, halfway through writing this I realized that I definitely have an unpopular opinion about them, but I'm not erasing all that, so you get both. I hate the nickname babybird. I know. I know! I hear you all disagreeing with me. I see you all throwing tomatoes at me. I just don't like it! I don't think it's cute. I like little red or little bird much better, personally.

Okay I'm also gonna do JayRoy but this is getting long, so I'm gonna put the rest under the cut.

JayRoy: I ship it!!!

What made you ship it?

I think one of my friends told me they knew it was a ship and they thought it was cute sometimes and I checked it out? I've actually been reading Jayroy since before I read Jaytim. And as previously stated, all it takes is one good fic.

What are your favorite things about the ship?

Honestly I just love their relationship so much. Roy is one of the few people Jason ever really allows to get close to him after becoming Red Hood (if we're ignoring the whole being brought back into the batfamily thing which I have a Lot of Opinions about, but that's a story for another time, anyone reading this can feel free to send me an ask if you want the rant), and I really just love the way they understand each other and are there for each other. I also love that they're assholes to each other. Roy is so irritating and Jason should hate it but he can't and he doesn't because Roy is too endearing and genuine. It's sweet. It's the angry one and the sunshine one.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have about the ship?

I guess? I think they work better as friends who also sleep together. Like, I don't necessarily think they should date. I think that if they ever ended up in a long-term relationship, it would be because Jason realizes he hasn't slept with anyone else in years and they've been partners for even longer than that. But when it comes to things that healthy relationships should have, I don't really see them having it. It's not healthy to start dating someone because you realize you already are after not talking about it for years. I think too much of the responsibility and emotional labor would fall on Roy, and I think he deserves better.

okay, if you're still reading at this point then thank you for reading!!! and thanks for the ask!! I had so much fun answering this 💚💚💚

[marirah]

20 questions for fic writers

thank you @vellaphoria for tagging me!

20 Questions for Fic Writers

How many works do you have on AO3?

oof okay it's a lot. i have two accounts, and one of them is over 10 years old so....

metukah (est 2013): 185

marirah (est 2022): 85

for a total of 270 works... oof

What’s your total A03 word count?

metukah: 407,889

marirah: 133,069

total: 540,958

What fandoms do you write for?

DC these days. I started in the one direction fandom, played around with Percy Jackson, the MCU, and Star Trek

What are your top five fics by kudos?

marirah:

Protected - T Sladick. After another blowout fight with Bruce, Dick offers to let his little brothers move in with him. And the mystery boyfriend they've never heard of before. (3.5k)

Daily Planet: Live From Gotham - G Superbat. Clark has an old crush on Batman and a new crush on Bruce Wayne. Lois is merciless. (3.5k)

Red - E JayTim. Jason doesn't know who this Red is or why he's in Dick's apartment, but it doesn't matter in the end. (6k)

Unread - G Jason & Dick. Jason finally caves to the kid's demands that he clear out his inbox. As it turns out, Dick has been writing to him for years. (1.5k)

Loud - G DickTim. Tim finds a little bird in his Nest and takes him home. (1k)

metukah:

Introducing Us - G batfam gen, side StephCass. The Justice League doesn’t know how many bats there are, or where Batman is keeping them all. (1.9k)

Field Trip - G Peter Parker & the Avengers. Peter Parker and his classmates take a trip to Stark Industries. He only spends about half of it wanting to melt into the floor. (3.2k)

I'm (Not) a Mess - G JayRoy. Roy Harper is Neal Caffrey. He's not letting that get in the way of his relationship with his daughter. (4.7k)

Ninjas as a Catalyst - G Birdflash. Peter doesn't like to remind people of how good an investigator he is, but he can definitely connect the dots. (4k)

Double Take - G Birdflash. Several years after Neal Caffrey disappears, Peter and Elizabeth are visiting El’s cousin Wally, who is engaged to Dick Grayson. Who used to be Neal Caffrey. (1.2k)

What’s the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

i'm not really that angsty a writer i think? i thought letter (dicktim, SPYRAL) had an angsty ending but i checked, and... it doesn't really lmao

What’s the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

i mostly write happy endings, but my favorite one technically isn't up yet. i'm just really happy with how my joint year of the otp/year of jason and slade series is going.

Do you get hate on your fic?

luckily, i don't really!

Do you write smut?

absolutely (see above lmao)

Do you write crossovers?

i've written a lot of white collar x dc, and i've been playing with dc x marvel x percy jackson recently

Have you ever had a fic stolen?

not that i know of

Have you ever had a fic translated?

i had someone ask once but i don't think anything ever came of it

Have you ever co-written a fic?

i had a co-written series once

What‘s your all-time favourite ship?

right now it's 1000% dicktim! (send me a message to join an 18+ dicktim server!)

What’s the WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will?

i have trouble finishing anything longer than a oneshot, they just rot in my scrivener files forever

What’s your writing strengths?

does fluff count? i like my fluff

What’s your writing weaknesses?

keeping up with things longer than 1k. also i tend to burn myself out

Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language for a fic?

i'd feel more comfortable with it if i spoke the language. but i have been known to use pet names from other languages sometimes, namely Hebrew

First fandom you wrote for?

the first thing i ever wrote (in middle school) was technically percy jackson self insert. i just wanted to be friends with percy and annabeth. i still want to be friends with percy and annabeth

Favourite fic you’ve ever written?

oh man. pretty much everything i write, i write for myself, so all of my works have been my favorites at one point. right now, i'm really happy with Negative and Aperature, which are a series with reverse Robins dicktim.

I tag @klarion-the-witch-boy , @the-alice-of-hearts , @ginbenci, and @bittercape

[fortanuvasyama]

good fucking heavens.

So I've looked through your blog a bit, just to see what's there, and I've gathered that 1. you are hella bitter about Bette Kane being essentially erased from the current mainline comics, and 2. you feel like everyone should agree with YOUR opinions of characters. (I'm being a little harsh here. but that's how it comes off.)

C'mon dude. Chill the fuck out. Blacklist the jayroy tag and move on. Do you really enjoy harassing people that much over a ship you don't like?

"Let me tell you something: Roy Harper died canonically a few years ago. You wanna know what Jason Todd did? He didn't try to seek vengeance for who killed him (despite the fact that that's all he's wanted his father to do) and instead just kinda fucked off to some country town"

Yeah, and if you paid attention to ANY fan of Jason and/or Jayroy, you'd have seen how fucking pissed people were over the weirdo characterization and how unsatisfying everything ended up.

[Also this part: "He didn't try to seek vengeance for who killed him (despite the fact that that's all he's wanted his father to do)" tells me you know incredibly little about Jason's character.]

You mention in another post how you bothering other people is "helping spread the word about Bette Kane/Flamebird." Do you really think that people first hearing about a character from the person who is HARASSING them is going to make them want to look into that character or have any positive associations with them? Do you think ANY of these fans are going to go "oh wow! the person bothering me and calling me stupid says Flamebird is a great character! I should look that up!"

Be honest with me: if anyone did that to YOU and told you to learn about something, wouldn't you do the exact opposite out of spite?

And I'll be honest, I UNDERSTAND why you don't like the Roy that DC wrote in the Outlaws run. I GET IT. He's radically different from previous characterizations (let's be real, though, is there any character that's been written consistently in DC? in any comic company?) and the writers for that series stripped away a lot of previous canon to make him fit there. I can understand how frustrating that is, to have a character you like so much be now near unrecognizable.

But taking that out on people who enjoyed the comic, who didn't mind the changes or maybe didn't even know about them, is SO counterintuitive to your goal! You're starting from a place of hate when you should be trying to draw people in by positively showing the parts of the character you like best! Make some kind of fanwork that makes people WANT to learn more! Don't go into people's blogs, insult them, and then expect them to be open to what you say.

If you don't like the ship, fine. If you don't like the character, that's FINE. But DO NOT think you are doing anyone ANY favors by making people feel bad about something they like. It's a real fucking asshole thing to do.

jason was 12 when roy first met him

Idk what you want be to do 'bout that ima be honest, to be clear tho if anyone must know I ship them as FULL GROWN ADULTS not as children, btw i'd appreciate it if people did not fill my inbox with critiques about two fictional men a find fun together

also I hate it when people are like hating on a ship (not trying to acuse anon of anything) or a specific dynamic when its lgbt+ like I see people going on and on about the big brother's best friend dynamic/trope and how the age difference is fun and cool, but as soon as this dynamic is between two people of the same gender or part of our little rainbow community they switch up suddenly it's wrong and disgusting also known as being a hypocrite

[pluckyredhead]

It is baffling to me how much hate JayRoy gets. For what is ultimately a soft bff ship, it has a disproportionate amount of anger directed at it. Explain????

I mean, as a longtime Roy fan, I get why longtime Roy fans in particular resent it. Jason and Roy have literally only interacted in Red Hood and the Outlaws and its various sequels, and those are truly terrible and actively offensive comics written by a confessed and chronic sexual harasser. It also emerged out of the New 52, and I don't know a single DC fan who was reading comics when the New 52 happened who didn't feel deeply hurt by pretty much everything about that reboot, myself included. The Roy in those comics is unrecognizable from his previous 70 years of canon, severed from all of his history and cherished relationships, and written entirely to serve the purpose of lifting up Lobdell's ludicrous Gary Stu version of Jason. They are bad comics. It doesn't help that so much of the fandom continually centers Jason at Roy's expense, even now.

So yeah, I get being pissed about that - I was too, 10 years ago! But I feel like after a certain point, holding on to that kind of anger is just sort of unproductive? Like, yeah, the New 52 was awful, and RHATO is awful, but they both happened, let's see if we can't make something good out of it. For me, that was enjoying the over-the-top accidental homoeroticism of RHATO and realizing that actually, the character I recognize as Roy would be really interesting to pair with Jason. That was finding ways to reconcile pre-52 Roy with what we were now being given (remind me to write that post I've been thinking of about Roy's tech-y tendencies even before the reboot). I get mad too, but I don't want to wallow in it. I want to build.

All that said, I totally understand people who are like "Nope, too much water under the bridge there, I can never ship it." Or people who just don't like it for whatever reason! That's allowed! But there I do agree that people who hate JayRoy tend to be extremely vocal about it in a way that I would never be publicly about a ship I disliked (and HOO BOY do I have ships I dislike). I was looking at twitter yesterday and so many people are furious even though they've gotten exactly what they want (Roy hanging out with the Titans and looking for Lian), just because Jason is there? Friends, it is not worth it!

I don't know. It just feels like...so much about being a comics fan is infuriating, I'd rather not make it even worse on myself by reading everything through the most negative lens possible, you know?

[justadcgirl]

Answer these questions cause I want to

The Fandom I'm talking about is DC cómics, batfam specifically

1. What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?

JayRoy - Because their characters are destroyed for it

Any batcest - Because ew

2.Are there any popular fandom OTPs you only BroTP?

Almost any ship that exist in canon and fanon because I prefer friendship.

(Exclude Jaykyle from this)

3.Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion?

Not to my knowledge but then again I only follow like 10 or so people

4. Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular OTP?

JayArtemis - I much prefer a siblings dynamic or even friends. They're not that popular

5. Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?*

No because I don't really ship people.

6.Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?*

No.

7. Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now?

The batfam as a concept but it's so bad now that I just cant

8. Have you received anon hate? What about?*

Not anon but yh I got hate. The usual kill yourself stuff. Made a whole post about it

9. Most disliked character(s)? Why?

Most versions of Bruce. Some of them I love I really really do. But alot of the, especially modern Bruce, I would pay to slap.

Dick- I don't hate him but he got boring for me

10. Most disliked arc? Why?

Scott Lobell - the whole Jokers daughter arc. Because no.

11. Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

None that I can think of rn

12. Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

Probs All Caste arc. Don't get me wrong it was done shittily but I like the concept

13.Unpopular opinion about XXX character?

I don't mind if Jason grows out of the whole Red hood thing. It would be interesting. I actually want him to.

14. Unpopular opinion about your fandom?

We take these characters too seriously (I'mguilty of this too)

15.Unpopular opinion about the manga/show?

Batfam working as a team with their own specialized talents is bad.

The the family would not get along 9/10 times

16.If you could change anything in the show, what would you change?

🤷‍♀️

17. Instead of XYZ happening, I would have made ABC happen…

🤷‍♀️

18. Does not shipping something ‘popular’ mean you’re in denial and/or biased?

Biased but I ship Jaykyle

19.What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom?

Woobifying Jay

Making the family seem like their children

20.What is the purest ship in the fandom?

After watching AO3 nothing is pure.

21. What are your thoughts on crack ships?

I don't care

22. Popular character you hate?

Not hate really but dislike. Dick grayson. Hes boring to me. He has been for years.

23.Unpopular character you love?

🤷‍♀️

24 Would you recommend XXX to a friend? Why or why not?

Hell no the Fandom is shit and the comics dc is putting out isn't good.

25. How would you end XXX/Would you change the ending of XXX?

26. Most shippable character?

Dick. Cause he interavts with the most people

27. Least shippable character?

Idk. Maybe Damkian cause hes a kid.