#like ....that bioware is literally dead...

[chelseareferenced]

BIOWARE WHEN I CATCH YOU-

MAJOR Spoilers for Dragon Age Veilguard, yee have been warned, below there be spoilers

WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE WAS DEAD THE WHOLE TIME AND A FIGMENT OF MY ROOK'S IMAGINATION THAT SOLAS HAD CREATED?!

No no no no no, I was supposed to romance Varric, brush his hair, kiss his forehead and fix Bianca for him.

HE WAS LITERALLY HAUNTING THE NARRATIVE

I cried for 20 minutes, like, ugly cried.

That's my comfort dwarf and he's just gone?

The crying started up again at the end when Rook took over narration

[sampirism]

talkn bout my opinions on rook and varric and roleplay and feeling disconnected (roleplay in a game sense not the freaky sense. sorry) - SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE GAME, BEWARE. this post is WAY too long. sorry about that too.

it's very evident that bioware/EA wanted an action/adventure game first and an RPG second, but let me type at you.

i hate to say that i didn't feel particularly sad about varric's fate, due to the structure of the game. it is, in hindsight, completely obvious that he was not alive! i just hadn't been thinking about varric much at all the entire game because you have limited opportunity to talk to him in the infirmary or when he plops around barefoot when everyone decides to sit at a table and talk about how fucked we are. i genuinely forgot he was there otherwise.

he barely feels like a guy himself. because there's no personalized worldstate, any specific mentions to events or characters might be jarring to the player who may have made a different choice along the way.

no one talks about how sorry they are about varric because they CAN'T or the twist is completely revealed. even with another DA2 character in the game (who my hawke romanced. who is now dead in the fade. glad to see you're LIVING IT UP ISABELA!!! (I'm jk. a little.))

there's no response rook can say to condolences outside of "oh, thanks" without the game fully revealing its Twist, because "I'll tell him you said hi" and "he'll be up and walking in no time!" are only reasonable responses from a Mourn Watcher, and even then, should still cause your companions to be a little alarmed. the closest we get to this is the inquisitor making reference to lost friends, and rook visually registers it, but its swept under the rug and moved on from immediately.

(i know we're all mentally unwell in this lighthouse repressing our feelings but jesus christ)

despite spending two games with him and enjoying him as a character, I struggle with feeling much for his loss AS my rook, because i found there to be no meaningful connection between him and rook. i was only told i was supposed to have one.

the game wanted so badly get the ball rolling with an immediate threat, its at the expense of roleplay. you could argue that da2 and inq also started with Immediate Threats but you are also very limited in the choosing of your backstory in those games.

rook was deliberately designed to be more open-ended, with more similarity to origins, but still gave you a prequel where you felt what your life was before The World Began To End.

there's this conversation you can walk in on with lucanis and davrin, where they're talking about their worst jobs. there are three dialogue for rook I think and i can only remember two but they were "I don't want to talk about it" or "man I have the dreadwolf in my head". (I... honestly think the third option was very similar to the second one but I have a very bad memory. sorry)

i played a mourn watcher mage. i had to have done some messed up spirit stuff. some bone shenanigans. not able to mention my Down With Nobles rebellion at all. i halfway expected it to be revealed that my rook was just like a shitty pawn (haha) and actually all her memories are fake and not real. but obviously you meet people from your shared backstory and they do know OF you but they don't really know you

in mass effect 1, there were some unique missions related to both the backstory and psychological profile you picked for shepard. they were short, and nothing happens like that in 2+3 that i remember, but they are unique to your character and are something at least.

no one really asks you much more about yourself! mourn watcher rook is literally Found In The Crypts as an Infant, an incredible mystery that you have to fill in the blanks yourself, which could be something someone wants-- but i personally like my characters a little more predefined in a game such as dragon age. vague history worked for me in games like skyrim and fallout new vegas, even baldurs gate! but makes me feel wholly disconnected from the story and group here.

there was a fair amount of dialogue choices for mourn watcher, especially with Emmrich-- talking with emmrich was one of the few times my rook felt like A Person-- but there were other times that my companions seemed to think emmrich was the only necromancer/watcher on the team. (i even specialized in death caller!)

by containing all the dialogue with companions to ! markers and outings, it's weird to be unable to have any conversations without being able to provide personal insight, whereas some NPCs in inquisition actively asked you about your past.

its particularly noticeable because of lucanis, whom my rook romanced. the dude has a lot to say about nevarran culture and the necropolis and such, and we can have zero conversations on the matter lol.

maybe this is like, really a mourn watcher thing? maybe it feels better as a crow or a warden. but if you offer me the choice to be a freak crawling around in a tomb. i am going to be.

TLDR: i really feel that a prequel mission, a recruitment by varric then a timeskip, a personal quest tied to the consequences of your backstory, something, anything, to make rook feel like an actual part of the world, was a necessity and sincerely a missed opportunity. if you actually read this far, thanks!

[mythalism]

Am I alone who thinks they will eventually leave a prison tho. Like Rook showed its possible. And I think Lavellan will help him leave his regrets but it's gonna take time for sure. Buy they also have eternity and time works differently in the Fade too. There is like the Lighthouse in the Fade still, and with it - access to Crossroads. Idk for me such ending gives a lot of freedom and ideas where they gonna end up. Solas is an escaper, come on 😁

i think you are absolutely right. i think he has several avenues out, and which one he will take and how long it will take him will depend on how rook treated him more than anything else. he's literally supremely powerful in the fade, its literally his hometown, spirits love him, his specific brand of magic is specifically about the fade, he designed the prison himself, his entire mythological persona revolves around escaping traps. he will figure out a way to leave if he wants to. if he has his wife with him and/or was convinced to atone, it will probably be peacefully after working to heal the blight and confronting his regrets. if not, it would probably be less peaceful lol. whether or not bioware SHOWS US this possibility is the real question i think. but i believe this specific ending of having him trapped as opposed to dead (or tranquil like the artbook... *shivers*) was chosen to give them the possibility of bringing him back if they so choose. its kind of like how hawke thinks they defeated corypheus for good because they are banking on the player not realizing that the original darkspawn magisters have the ability to body-hop like archdemons, so then they could bring him back as a villain and say gotcha!!! allowing rook to think they trapped the trickster god is similar. will they actually follow through????? no clue. but they definitely designed it so they have the option in the future

[miyku]

[lavellane]

so is it actually confirmed that datv will not bring up the vir'abelassan choice ? lol ?

[vultures-and-scavengers]

no, i am a huge sucker for 'aloof character learns to lean on others and makes it through trials via the power of love and friendship and really supportive hugs' actually.

that, and enemies to lovers. she is orlesian, after all.

[gxldencity]

I'm not discounting that lucanis is just a wierdo and that's why he has spectral wings, a demonic aura and deals necrotic damage

[glitchlight]

actually to expand on that last post is there truly any more dire state of a genre than western traditional fantasy now.

the top end is dominated by genre tentpoles nobody likes anymore, all of which are stealing the same five ideas (four of them racist) from one another constantly. Amazon blew a billion dollars on a lotr show nobody watched -- WHILE ALSO making a wheel of time show for millions itself and ALSO nobody talks about it. Bioware's probably gonna be dead if DA4 flops; Bethesda might well be dead before even getting a chance to make TES6. DnD is even more of a cultural juggernaut than it ever has been even as everyone hates it more with each passing day. Hasbro needs a billion dollars man. Hasbro needs MONEY. And everywhere else we're stuck in the prequel timeloop of endless nostalgia recursion.

The base of the genre, long dominated by a litany of endless hacks and enthusiastic nobodies has been supplanted by a new generation of neophytes and the 2020s hack, cranking out interminable webnovels emulating anime and light novels or else hopping on new genre trends inspired by anime and light novels like isekai and/or litrpg. There's an entire subgenre that's just " boring Dungeon Keeper letsplays."

The most interesting thing to happen in western fantasy in years is the development of cozy fantasy, the least emotionally challenging genre experiment ever and one which is as creatively bankrupt as it is wildly successful. Just slap a found family sticker and a token queer romance on a small business in a fantasy world and you've got yourself a cozy fantasy. And when those writers truly try branching into fiction when they can't lean on cliche and fanfic formula they write something like rebecca thorn's This Gilded Abyss, a Bioshock rip off so poorly plotted the middle portion of the book becomes literally incoherent.

Genre's fucked man.

[lizzybeeee]

Calling it now:

If there's ever any future installments of Dragon Age there will be no mention of the differentiation between the Dalish or City Elves.

Like in DATV they will simply all be 'elves' and the vallaslin will be reduced to 'cool looking tattoo's that some veil jumpers have' - no mention of the elven pantheon either, because why bother! They're all dead now!

They're all dead and responsible for every lore plot point in Thedas, and there's nothing of mystery or substance left in the world now.

No mention of the culture in the alienage, of the vhenadahl tree, of the horrific racism and systematic abuse the elves have been through...now its just elves. With the way the Veil Jumpers have been set up, and the fact that the elven gods were the enemy in DATV, I find it extremely unlikely that the Dalish will even exist as a group either. Why would they? Their Gods returned and blighted the world - not that the fact is even truly discussed in the game. Elves are just elves, and the notable elves are Veil Jumpers.

Maybe you'll walk in a city, pick up a codex, and get a copy and pasted explanation of history from a DAO codex - a reminder of what we used to have and what BioWare absolutely demolished in their attempt to build a new IP on the bones of Dragon Age. The absolute whiplash in writing, story, and character between DAI and DATV is staggering. How on earth could the studio that made such a gorgeous, rich world of lore surrounding the elves in one game end up utterly bastardizing and reducing it to nothing?

How can you look at a place like the Temple of Mythal and go from those gorgeous golden murals and emerald tiled roofs that reached to the heavens to a place like the Lighthouse? From the Emerald Graves to the ruins of Arlathan - devoid of halls that reach to the heavens and golden murals replaced with stained glass? The entirety of the Trespasser DLC had more character and reverence for what the elven empire once was, and DATV feels as though it's approaching it with the perspective of 'generic elven bullshit with triangles everywhere'. All that unique architecture has been obliterated by adding in World of Warcraft focus crystals and automatons.

How can you go from the atmospheric/environmental storytelling of the Lost Temple of Dirthamen to Solas just blurting everything out? No weight, no double truths or hidden meanings - just blurting it out, getting it said and done with no gravitas? That was Solas' entire thing! People have made threads literally dissecting what Solas says and does not say - now he spits lore out as though it were common, everyday knowledge.

How can anyone justify the sudden emergence of magical automatons everywhere in old elven ruins? As if Dragon Age didn't have a host of enemies/creatures available to use in their stead - or the ability to create something unique to the forest of Arlathan. What happened to the spirit guardians? What happened to the lingering echoes of the elves slaughtered by humans in wars ages past like in DAO? Magic was their very existence - spells taking years or centuries to cast, weaving in and about each other - and you're telling me the ancient elves spent their time creating magical transformers?! It feels/looks so utterly seperate from everything we know of the elves from Dragon Age.

Or look at the Crossroads - listen to how Morrigan speaks of it - the reverence for the past, the misty atmosphere, and the heaviness of this pocket of the world that carries the fading memories of a world and people that no longer exists...now it's reduced to a hub world! People are just popping in and out of it at will!

In Trespasser, the few eluvians that we were available to travel to led to the most lonely, desolate spots of Thedas, which ensured their survival over the past millennia. The mirror in the Deep Roads, the mirror in the ancient stronghold in Ferelden...now they're everywhere!The 'few surviving' eluvians are in every major settlement of Thedas and all are in operating order! More than that, everyone who sees an eluvian knows what it is - this ancient marvel of a world long gone has lost all worth and is reduced to a 'world building' justification for fast travel.

Poor Merrill, slaving for a near decade to try and restore a small sliver of her history, only to have all gravitas and wonder of her discovery utterly made void. All that accomplishment wasted, especially when Bellara can wave her magic omni-tool and fix an eluvian in a matter of hours.

If you took every specific Dragon Age terminology out of the Veilguard and replaced it with generic fantasy bullshit you would never be able to tell the difference. The world of DATV is so divorced from its predecessors its astounding.

[northern-passage]

just found one of my favorite pieces of writing advice when it comes to interactive fiction, i think if you've read literally any of my work, it will be pretty obvious how much i use this in my own writing. i actually couldn't remember where i read this for the first time and on a whim i went through my twitter likes and found it in a thread. i'm going to transcribe it for ease of reading, but this is all coming from Alexander Freed (@/AlexanderMFreed on twitter)

he has a website here with other compiled writing advice about branching narratives and game design, though he never posted this there and hasn't really updated recently (but still check it out. there's some specific entries about writing romance, branching and linear & other game writing advice)

original twitter thread here

It's Tuesday night and I feel like teaching some of what I've learned in 15 years of branching narrative video game writing. Let's go in-depth about one incredibly specific subject: neutral / fallthrough / catchall response options!

Player ownership of the protagonist in choice-based branching narrative games (a la BioWare, Telltale, mobile narrative games, etc) is a vital aspect of the form.

The ability for the audience to shape a Player Character, to develop that character's inner life in their own mind, is unmatched in any other medium.

The Player determines the character's actions and THE MOTIVATIONS for those actions. The character's psychology can literally be as complex as the Player can imagine. However, this works best when there's enough space for the Player to develop those motivations. No game can offer enough options to support every interpretation imaginable; much of the character has to live in the Player's head, without necessarily appearing on the screen.

That's complicated. We're going to unpack it.

Generally, when presenting choices to a Player, we want those choices to be as interesting and compelling as possible.

But compelling, dramatic choices tend to be revealing of character. And no game can support hundreds of options at every choice point for every possible character motivation a Player might imagine.

This sort of narrative CANNOT maintain its integrity if the Player is forced to constantly "rewrite" their characterization of the Player Character on the fly. You want your Player to feel like they have more than enough viable options at any given moment.

At the simplest level of writing, this is where "fallthrough" responses come in.

In the examples above, each moment contains a response which furthers the story but doesn't imply a huge emotional choice for the Player. The Player is asked to choose A or B, agree or disagree, but can sidestep the issue altogether if desired.

These "neutral" responses are vital if both A and B don't appeal to the Player... or if, perhaps, the Player likes A but not the WAY A is being expressed. Milquetoast option C works for anyone; thus, the Player is never forced to break character because of a lack of options.

Questions work well for this sort of neutral option. Tacit agreement and dead silence also serve, in certain sorts of stories--as a Player, I know what's going on in my silent character's head and the game won't contradict it.

The important thing is that I'm never forced to take a path that's outright WRONG for my character. Even if other characters misinterpret the Player Character's motivation, my character's inner life remains internally consistent.

"Neutral" responses aren't the only ways to go, though. Some responses are appropriate for any character because they're tied to the base character concept.

Here, for example (from @/seankmckeever's X-Files), the Player is a marine on a mission. The Player can respond abrasively to her partner's fear or look into the issue (out of compassion or genuine belief), but our fallthrough is actually the TOP response.

There's no version of our marine who would absolutely break character by picking "Stay calm and on mission." It's not blandly neutral; rather, it reinforces aspects of the character we can be sure of and gives the Player an option if nothing else works.

Different sorts of narratives will use different sorts of fallthroughs. A comedy might treat the option to say something funny as a fallthrough, of sorts--it's entertaining and will never violate the characterization the Player has created.

In a quest-driven RPG, a fallthrough response can often boil down to "How do I move to the next step of this quest?"

That said, the strongest moments in a narrative will often have no "fallthrough" response at all. They'll work by creating multiple responses that, by overlapping, cover all reasonable Player Character actions while still leaving room for the Player to ascribe motivation.

[grandpasauce]

"bioware's doing the best they can" "they have to trim the fat SOMEWHERE" "they have to move on from the previous games EVENTUALLY" "they ALWAYS have disregarded things from past games" guys........... (ramblings under the cut)

my man on earth....... morrigan is literally claimed By The Devs to be a prevalent character in datv and ur telling me NOTHING that happned to her is worth putting into the background of datv?

you can claim bioware is just doing their job and have all the excuses in the world for them but when u get down to it.... they really just didnt want to deal with anything from the past three games... they didnt want to put the work in to add even CODEXES (one the the easiest cheapest forms of implementing background lore) to this game... the literal game director barely even knows who ZEVRAN is (a MAIN CHARACTER from the FIRST of the series) because they didnt bother going back to replay or research dragon age as a series beyond dai... like... i understand the devs wanting to simplify their jobs and i actually totally agree, they needed to get rid of the keep, that was too much info for them to keep up with.

But they cut back SO MUCH, like an unnecessary amount. Three? THREE choices? AND ALL OF THEM ARE SOMEHOW RELATED TO SOLAS? NOTHING the inquisitor did was notable beyond their relationship to Solas? Nothing??

people are using leliana as an example of something bioware has retconned before because shes alive regardless of if u killed her in dao or not. except the problem with that is that the games DOES address the fact that she's supposed to be dead. like it very much does that??? hello?? id rather they bring her back and address it than just totally retcon it and never explain it

this is such a horrible, disrespectful decision on bioware's part and making excuses for them is WILD. like. the devs are fine i promise u. stopppp telling people to **touch grass** and **take some deep breaths** after I myself have invested over half my life into playing these games just to get slapped with "lol actually none of that matters now hehe" jfc

like i understand fandom can get a lil crazy but im telling u this isnt an overreaction lmao let people be upset about things that theyve poured their lives into for 15+ years

im still buying the game, im still playing it, ill still love it, but MAN this has kind of totally ruined my trust in the devs and im back to being nervous about how they will address things in this game and beyond because it really feels like a big fuck u to long time fans and idk how they wouldnt think it would be perceived as such.

[vigilskeep]

putting briala miriam fiona and katriel in media outside the games and then giving them all the worst love interests when i could literally treat them right. it’s like bioware wants me dead

[mass-effect-anonymous]

CONFESSION:

I've always disliked the idea of Shepard being dead - and then a hate group bringing them back. Whats worse, Liara, who Shep can be romatically involved with, cooperated with the group to get their remains to the Lazarus Research Station. It just seems such a strange solution for 'we need time to pass between the titles and need a good reason for Shep to be away from all their friends and not know what happened to any of them or what is going on'

And its not like the project is really explored either. Like there are so few implications drawn from it. Shep is asked about some things from the last game (To confirm some game choices) and then thats that. Sure I know the whole thing comes back in the DLC - but then its treated as a one off as well. I mean imagine if Shep was plagued by the doubts of them being a clone as well - or not knowing if they came back right.

You are told Shep is full of implants now - but you literally have the choice to erase the scars forever and never worry about it again! I just wish this was explored more. Like, it kind of reminds me of the body horror of Aliens: Resurrection where Ripley (the galaxy's savior) comes back wrong. How about reaper tec being used in bringing Shep back? Or discovering a cloning facility at the Colleactors ship? There's just so much that could have been done aside of just 'They died and came back like jesus'...

It's such a shame BioWare didnt really choose to explore this further.

[dalishious]

hi! so...i saw a couple of people say that zevran isn't actually a poc he's just a white spaniard with a tanned skin so is it possible that's true? cuz it's somewhere said that the devs made him hispanic with a spanish accent and on top of that they white washed the shit out of him in da2 and in wotv2...do you know maybe one of the devs specified that he's brown hispanic and not white hispanic cuz IM FUCKING WORRIED

also i don't exactly remember the source (about the devs making him hispanic) cuz op didn't share and maybe it's just some random guy giving his impression on zevran but here:

"Thus, the developers had a very clear idea of what they wanted Zevran to be. They wanted Zevran to be charismatic, attractive, and quick on his feet. He is a lovable rogue with a troubled past. To help convey all these qualities to the player, he was given the accent of a Spaniard. It is an accent which has been used for all manner of renaissance-era heroes. Zevran is cut from the same cloth as famous heroes like Inigo Montoya and Zorro. Zevran himself will comment that his accent is one of his more attractive qualities. The dashing Hispanic archetype is quite poplar, to the point where just hearing the accent in the context of fiction implies the possession skill with a weapon of choice and suave mannerisms."

Zevran literally has the second darkest skin tone in the game. His game model uses 006 of 7 skin tints. That man is not just tanned.

Here is his vanilla head model:

Here are various vanilla screenshots in different game lighting:

Here is his most recent official artwork from World of Thedas vol 2:

Zevran has brown skin. That is FACT.

I have to assume anyone who says otherwise has been either looking at too much whitewashed fanart or playing the game with their gamma/brightness turned way up.

Finally, Gaider did indeed refer to Zevran as having "darker skin" when people compared his design to Fenris, on the old and now dead BioWare forums. Unfortunately I don't have the full conversation saved, just this part of it:

^ The "him" in context of the full conversation was Zevran.

[lafaiette]

going from the detailed keep to just three decisions is such a drastic change, not to mention it says nothing about dao or da2? are those games just gonna have one default worldstate? i wonder how's that gonna work with varric literally being in the game is he just never gonna mention hawke?

Yes, I admit it bothers me, too - I hope it really was an early build used to avoid spoilers, and that more options will be available in the full game, but I doubt we will see choices from DA:O and DA2.

Iirc Epler said the focus will be on northern Thedas, and consequently choices from the two earlier games won't be addressed. I can understand this tbh - after all, I doubt Tevinter, Rivain, or the Veil Jumpers in Arlathan would discuss or even care about the ruler of far, rustic Ferelden.

Divine Victoria can simply be mentioned with her title, and since mages and magic are seen in a different way in northern Thedas compared to the south, it makes sense for them not to mention the fate of the Circles in Ferelden and Orlais. And considering there are two crazy elven "gods" wreaking havoc and corrupting the land, I doubt Rook, Antaam-occupied Antiva, and Weisshaupt have the time to pay attention to these "distant" things (even though I WAS expecting one of the available choices to be about the Wardens, since the Inquisitor can choose to exile them to Weisshaupt).

Speaking of Varric and Hawke, yeah, I have no idea how that will be addressed. Twelve years have passed since someone was left in the Fade, and it's pretty much confirmed that this person is dead and won't come back at this point, despite all the fans' funny pictures of Hawke coming out of a Fade rift we saw over the years. So, if Hawke was left in the Fade, Varric would have no reason to mention them, since they are long dead and there are much more "important" things to focus on at the moment.

If they're alive... we know that Hawke goes to Weisshaupt after the events of Inquisition, but again, many years have passed since then, so they probably went there to check, saw that things were weirdly quiet, and went back home, their mission concluded. No way they remained in the Anderfels for more than ten years - so even in this case, Varric would have little reason to mention them.

No matter how the devs try to spin this, it can't denied that the events of Veilguard wouldn't exist without Inquisition's. It's basically a direct sequel, even though Bioware is clearly doing their damnest to try and lure in new players unfamiliar with the series, doing everything they can not to scare them off with too many unfamiliar references and characters.

It stands to reason that the events of Inquisition are those that should majorly affect Veilguard's, but it's really odd how simply one (!) choice from the main game and two from its Trespasser DLC are offered.

The biggest concern is the Well of Sorrows - both Morrigan and the Inquisitor are in the game, so how is the game going to address that event? Will it be completely ignored, like a soft-reboot? Will they force Morrigan to be the canon choice no matter our world state?

Or maybe the Inquisitor won't have a very big role (and there's the problem of their personality, too, which wasn't a "fixed" one like Hawke's) or maybe there's something about the Inquisitor's character creator Bioware is hiding/didn't share on purpose to surprise the fans.

[glamfellens]

this isn’t because of the leaks. i know that a leaked preview of the build is most likely nowhere near a clear indication of what the final game is going to look like. and not to keep ragging on dragon age, part of me is still interested in what’s to come, but it really is hard to keep looking forward to it when we literally have absolutely no idea what to expect. i’m fucking sick and tired of v*rric and s*las. the devs have given me, a person who isnt a fan of either of these characters, literally nothing to look at or engage with. i know i’m not the only dragon age fan who feels this way.

and what does that say for people who could be new fans, who haven’t touched the franchise before? what is there to bring new people into this game? bioware are just relying on two very beaten and dead horses and its just like... man. there are better games out there lmfao.