#lgbt+ identities do not always neatly fit into boxes

[elysianmadness]

"Lesbian means exclusive attraction to women!"

"No, it means non-men exclusively attracted to non-men!"

"It actually means queer attraction to women!"

"Lesbian means women and nonbinary people being exclusively attracted to other women and nonbinary people!"

Lesbian is a multifaceted label that can describe many different experiences. There is no one perfect definition of lesbian that will encompass the entire diverse experiences that lesbians can have.

I'm personally a genderqueer woman who's exclusively attracted to other women, but the lesbian next to me might be a transmasc lesbian who loves all genders except for men. And the lesbian next to them might be a bigender lesbian who's both a girl and a boy, who's exclusively attracted to women. Our experiences can all be described by the term lesbian if that's how we wish to describe it, but we might define it differently based on our own experiences. And guess what?

None of our definitions are wrong, but none of our definitions will encompass every other lesbian's experiences. A word can have multiple definitions without any of the definitions being wrong. And those definitions can be very vague or very specific. Labels are made to fit us- we aren't made to fit labels.

People who may have a different experience with the lesbian label are not your enemies. People in lesbian spaces who aren't exactly like you are not your enemies. The problem comes when you try to force one singular definition on every single lesbian. THAT is harmful. Sending death threats to other lesbians because they don't have the same experience as you is harmful. Not another lesbian having a different experience from you.

[rosiewitchescottage]

We're a tribal species, we're always going to have a preference for people like ourselves.

But there's a difference between that and thinking that your preferred group is not only superior to any other, but that the others should get treated badly.

History tells us that white people have indeed been guilty of this, men have been guilty of this etc.

All quite true.

By now we've learned that that was wrong. We've learned that no group is actually superior to another.

This is a darn good thing. A positive move indeed.

So, what's been our game plan to get things moving towards where they ought to be?

Sadly, we took a large step backwards.

Men, white people, non LGBT people are demonised. In fact straight, white men are regarded as the lowest of the low.

What happened to our leap forward in wisdom?

We'd actually hit the nail on the head!

OK, we're never going to get perfect equality. People don't fit neatly into 'group' boxes, all identical.

Every woman/man/white person/black person/Asian person/Latin person/LGBT person etc is a unique individual.

Being in a group means that there is one trait that we all have in common, that's all.

Each individual will be a member of many groups.

No way is every member of every group going to be exactly the same as every other.

But we can be equal in terms of our Human Value. We can all have equal opportunities to do things, just so long as we have the ability and the passion to.work at it.

I don't regard men as my enemies. Their Human Value is equal to mine, we are a team.

There are individual men whose attitudes and behaviour make them dangerous and to be avoided.

But there are women who are just as reprehensible.

So we should either demonise all women and all men, or recognise that both sexes have good and bad elements.

We can celebrate the good and have zero tolerance of the bad.

Race is essentially a matter of skin colour. Have we really been idiotic enough to consider this to be an indicator of superiority and inferiority?

Unfortunately, yes we have. And rather than stopping the stupidity, we've just turned things over.

Yet we expect things to be working better than they did before.

No one can accuse humanity of being overly clever. 🙄

What's frustrating as heck is that we were actually starting to go down a better path.

As 1980s British teens, we were taught that not being racist or homophobic, (and both of these were big problems at the time), meant not treating one another any differently because of either race or sexuality.

And once you resisted the temptation to 'overcompensate' with someone LGBT or PoC, it wasn't that hard to do.

You wouldn't say it to someone LGBT/'Of Colour'? Then you don't say it someone straight/white.

You.wouldn't say it to someone straight/white? Then you don't say it to someone LGBT/'Of Colour'.

People were just People. No, you don't 'not see colour'. You just don't judge a person based on his/her skin tone.

It was starting to have a positive effect. Then some damn fools decided to listen to Critical Race Theory and DEI and Queer Theory peddlars. 🙄

And back down we plummeted at high speed.

It is pretty funny when someone's idea of anti-racism is "look out for the women of all races!"

The men? MEN RRRRR TRASH!

And they wonder why there's little change.

No no. Just racism. It's always just racism.

Because the term "anti racist" is a literal dog whistle to walk on eggshells around a certain group. IE: treat them like children.

As to your point, yeah no it's always going to be the case that men are seen as monsters and bad. I wish that weren't the case, but I don't see a path to changing it.

[feckin-zicons]

that's why i hate larries, i hate them with all my heart. besides being boring they are hypocrites 🙄

Hey nonnie, sorry its taken me so long to reply but if you’re following me you know I’ve been travelling lately and have been more scatterbrained than usual. Not that I’m ever not scatterbrained, but its been just a little crazier than usual!

Now I wouldn’t go as far to say I hate Larries. After all their delusions can be pretty funny sometimes!

Joking aside, I don’t hate Larries, I love Larries, I’m a Larry, so I really hesitate to tarry the whole group with the same brush. However I do strongly agree with you that there are those who are complete hypocrites. Nothing annoys more more than when Larries ™ treat the other boys, other celebrities, their friends and even family as one more side character to the Larry Show.

In particular when Larries ™ flood comment sections asking or in some cases, ordering people to confirm rumors/the couple being together. The absolute fucking disrespect. Not just because they’re flooding comment sections in videos streams, tweets, what have you, that sometimes have nothing to do with the couple in question, but because its presumptuous and rude as fuck to think they’re owed a coming out- just because they’re fans of the boys.

Stop it. Thats fucking ugly as hell.

While I have no doubt all the boys will one day be out (as referenced by their continued efforts in fighting the closet. I don’t get the sense the boys will just stop at being freed from their contractual obligations). It should and will be on their own terms. Provided they’re not forcibly outed some other way.

Coming out is a deeply personal experience and no one, no one ever, has the right to out someone else. I’ll never not be absolutely furious at the Larries ™ who posted about having ‘receipts’ that would out the boys. Which… tbh weren’t receipts at all but thats a whole other story. I’m also still angry at the reactions after Liams Attitude spread that wouldn’t have been as bad if not for the entitled fandom that peddled ridiculous claims beforehand about Liam confirming Larry to be real.

I mean… What the actual fuck. Setting aside the fandom experience of the time, and boy was it an experience. What right would Liam have confirming Louis and Harry’s relationship? I mean, get some perspective? It doesn’t help that a lot of fandom adults were the ones coming up with, and reblogging those theories and the younger fans ate it up. It would have made more sense for Louis and Harry to do it but idk maybe I’m still out of touch for thinking so. I mean, it felt like every other week someone was talking about Larry coming out. It was such a shit storm oh my god.

Biggest issue I still have with them is that the entitled behaviour hasn’t stopped. For some it seems like, Larry coming out is it for them. Like pack it up, goodbye, shows over, Louis and Harry are gay and in a relationship and everything is rainbows, we get to see cute pictures of them and everyone lives happily ever after.

Yeah, no. Coming out, for anyone, is just the beginning, can’t even begin to imagine what its like for them. They’re still going to need everyones support, and it irritates me that for some fans it seems so fucking conditional.

Time and time again, I’ve seen tweets, and posts, and videos, whatever, going on about Larry coming out and it reads like a fucking wattpad story. Not just that but its always on the assumption by the poster, on the off chance they consider the other 3/5ths of the band and Ziam being a possibility, that Larry will come out first?

What?

I’m sorry but, what?

Everything I’ve seen from the boys tells me they’re all in this together, they support each other and are working through the bullshit as a team. We have all seen the No Judgement music video yes? The merch, posts, double speak etc referencing each other, yes?

I mean, I suppose if you only look at Louis and Harry, like so many do, sure. Only Larry matters, everyone else is a side character in their life.

(Lemme just, scream for a second).

However, that kind of thinking leads them to the wrong conclusions. Like… assuming the SBB/RBB countdown was attributed to nothing, when it counted down to Liam finally being free of Sophia. In the years since, I’ve seen Larries ™ backtrack on claiming the bears had anything to do with the boys, that they weren’t behind it at all, or that they were just trolling the fandom.

You know, despite all the proof otherwise, and some really, really good posts breaking down clues about what the boys were trying to tell us. The moment something might not actually be about Louis and Harry its like all their thinking shuts off. Its frustrating. Really fucking frustrating.

Seriously, fans of the other boys as individulas, not just Ziams, have been talking about the stunts too and how they fit together. Its why we tend to be right, because we’re considering the entire group. They’re still a group. They’re not free until all of them are free.

Just for that Nialls coming out first. Lmao. I’ll call it now. Lets go Niall, whens the baby coming. We all wanna know. Its been years.

Imagine, imagine! Acting like coming out is some race to be won. The fucking audacity.

Go outside and touch fucking grass you absoulte ninny.

I get it, you want to be vindicated, you want to be rewarded for putting your faith in two celebrities being together.

Newsflash you dandelionfluff, its not a race, Louis and Harry coming out isn’t a fucking prize. Thats not what supporting a relationship looks like.

Its worse when someone admits they don’t know much about Ziam or the possibility of Niall being LGBT+, and claim they’re open to it, but then immediately tweet or reblog or sub tweet or tag comment a post or answer an ask from another Larry ™ talking about how Larries ™ are the most marginalized and persecuted group.

???

In what fucking world?

IN WHAT FUCKING WORLD?

If we wanna play that game, boohoo, the media claims Louis and Harry aren’t friends anymore because of crazy shippers. Meanwhile Zayn publicly isn’t friend with anyone and “left” the band… despite the Ziam fandom calling the stunt about either Louis or Zayn “leaving” and getting it down to the exact week (the second article coming out a week before about the Ziam kiss pretty much cemented it for Zayn leaving. Which did a lot to fan the flames of the already rabid fanbase when Ziam got two articles confirming a Ziam kiss over the years and Larry got nada. Like that actually means anything).

Not to mention Larries ™ using the hetties and management tactics against the other parts of the fandom to silence them.

Who cares what the media says anyway!  TPTB, 1DHQ, The Sun, The Mirror, Simon and his minions and their unpaid interns have used the media to split the fandom apart and it worked.

Who the fuck cares if the media calls the 1D stans delusional, you know the truth! The truth it out there and you’ve seen it! The truth is coming! Who gives a damn about what some two bit “journo” who failed out of their creative writing course writes? They get worse by the year. If it wasn’t so pathetic and hilarious I might actually feel embarrassed for them. They can’t even come up with new stories and have just taken to copying old articles, but you’re upset with them??? Give it a rest. Honestly.

The sense of disconnect, entitlement and victimhood of some Larries ™ is absolutely ridiculous.

Oh my god they’re Karens. I’m not trying to be insulting, but thats exactly who they remind me of.

I’m not going to say its a surprise to me that so many in the Ziam fandom are POC, LGBT+, and Neurodivergent and any combination of those, but I am going to say I’ve read a lot of Larry fics that just have Het sex made gay. Those in the Ziam fandom just tend to look at facts in a different way than Larries do due to their life experiences. A interfaith, interracial, relationship where one or both partners fall under the Bi umbrella (not saying Louis or Harry can’t be or aren’t Bi+ but rumors, and the way the fandom markets them, puts them firmly in the gay category) looks very, very different than gay or straight relationship. Both looking from outside and being in one. There’s just different dynamics at play that aren’t often realized or understood by the gays and hets.

Its not a bad thing. All relationships are different. The issue is that theres a lot of biphobia/racism/religious prejudice etc that arises from people being unwilling to understand the inherent differences.

Taking myself for example, I’m bi, like, bi as hell, and I don’t understand how gays and hets only like one gender. I just don’t. Can’t wrap my head around it. If someone asks me to choose one gender over the others to prefer I can’t. Its so stressful. My brain goes into panic mode and it feels like I’m being torn apart. My sense of identity is shaken- its a shit feeling. I just can’t lie to myself like that. If other people feel the same well, its no wonder bi+ have such high rates of depression and suicide. Its not about choosing who to like, there is no choice, I just feel attraction to everyone. Aces, I get. Its similar to being the opposite of what I feel, or not feeling an attraction to someone I’m not interested in. Easy. Gays and hets? I’m completely lost on.

Completely, and I know I’m not the only one who feels that way. But that doesn’t mean I’m not willing to try and understand where they’re coming from. Its alien to me, personally, but I’m not going to shut down the fact, that theres a fuck ton of people who only like one gender or try and make up reasons as to why they’re actually bi+

I digress, none of the boys fall neatly into the gay stereotypes, its just that parts of the Larry fandom have boxed Louis and Harry into certain roles to fit preconceived notions (likely do to them initially fitting in better with the white, sassy, somewhat effeminate twink thats been plastered all over Hollywood as their “LGBT+ representation” for years. Gag), they can understand better, and only look for proof to back up their theories but don’t look at things objectively.

They really need to get out more and make some LGBT+ friends that aren’t on the internet and talk to some gay elders. They need educating that’s not the often sanitized and insulting Hollywood version, that’s all I’m saying.

They made Louis and Harry more palatable for themselves and its… really gross.

I don’t know, I don’t get it.

Some Larries ™ turned the boys into their fandom and fanfiction stereotypes when they’re so much more than that. The Sony leaks should have been enough to dissuade the fandom, and prove that the brand sold to the broader audience is just that- a brand, and yet… Niall only talks about food and golf and Ireland and is only allowed to be straight or ace. If he exists at all its just to be Capt Niall. Liams slow and dumb and depending on the day he’s either Capt Liam or a horrific abusive homophobe. Zayns just The Worst, a unstable drug addict, and the boys hate each other, and they should have kicked him out of the band sooner because he never wanted to be part of them anyway, etc.

It drives me absolutely around the bend some days. They’re real people who don’t owe anyone anything, especially not coming out.

Yes, I think they will. But they’re not obligated to. They can change their minds, I’ll support them regardless of an “official” coming out or not.

Look, a part of me gets it. They wanna be right, they wanna prove the haters wrong, they want to be able to say I called it all along! The vindication will be sweet.

But like, it takes a quick look at someone other than Louis and Harry to realize theres something hinky going on with Liam, Zayn and Niall. Please listen to their fans who have spent just as much time as you have looking into Louis and Harry compiling together evidence.

It might take a weekend to watch the ILYSM and pterodactyl bros videos and a few more hours looking into some Niall blogs, which isn’t much compared to the hours I know they’ve spent looking into Larry. At least then they’ll have enough information to form an opinion on things.

I wonder, for some, what would happen if Larry didn’t come out, or didn’t come out first, or one of the other boys was outed against their will. Because… I don’t know. It seems like some would rather just be proven right at this point.

I get it. We’re tired. Its been eleven long years. But this isn’t a television show were everything can come to a head with a s3 or s4 cliff hanger and fixed in the series finale. Its real life, and they started off as boys trusting industry veterans who never had their best interests at heart.

Iduno. I just want some Larries ™ to take a step out of the echo chamber, realize life isn’t The Larry Show & co. And especially. ESPECIALLY, that every instance were someone, friends, family, co-works, industry peeps etc support the boys they are SUPPORTING THE BOYS, NOT THE FANDOM. They are not “confirming Larry for the fans” they’re doing it to support the couple, not to cater to the fandom. Please stop confusing the two. There’s a huge fucking difference. Learn it.

[traumasurvivorshelpingsurvivors]

// tw csa, trauma, rape mention, abuse mention //

how can i tell if i'm a lesbian with sexual trauma or if i'm actually bisexual? when i (cis afab) think of being with women, i feel that i can have a loving, healthy relationship with them. one where i am valued and appreciated. i think more about the romantic aspects rather than the sexual aspects (also i did have a gf and it was a good experience). when i think of being with men, it's the complete opposite. i feel good being with a man only if i'm seen as a sexual object. i have fantasies about being raped and abused by men and i would like to pursue these fantasies in real life. i rarely think about romantic aspects of a relationship with men. i don't know if i can call myself a lesbian when it seems that i have sexual attraction towards men. also for more context i am a csa and sa victim. labels aren't that important to others but to me they are. i tried the sapphic and wlw labels but lesbian feels the most comfortable to me.

Hey anon,

The thing is, everyone's life experiences impact their thoughts, feelings, and identity. What words one might choose to describe themselves won't be the same for someone else, even if the "facts" about them are the same. It's also okay for you to identify how you want, and choose not to pursue relationships with men.

You're sure of your genuine attraction to women, sexually and romantically, and you're completely valid to focus on that. There are many people who call themselves lesbians without fitting into strict, reductionist categories. Especially when it comes to sexuality, many people do not fit neatly into boxes and every single person is allowed to use the words that best describe their thoughts and feelings. And by "best describe," I mean what feels good, comfortable, and right.

You are 100% allowed to call yourself a lesbian. It sounds like that is the term you feel comfortable with, so it would be a shame to slap a label on yourself, even if by "technical" definitions (which the LGBT+ community have always rejected), you're bi or some other identity. You are drawn to the label, it fits you, so allow yourself to use it.

Many lesbians (and others) feel confused about their attraction to men. We live in a society where attraction to men is expected of women, so it's not always easy to know if it's true attraction, or just the influences of our society at this particular time.

It is important to keep yourself safe. Recognizing that you have these desires and that they are harmful to you is a big step towards processing trauma in relation to these desires. I suggest talking to a mental health professional about it so you can work through it in a safe environment. A good therapist won't judge you for what you're thinking and feeling.

Here is a masterdoc that may help you answer the question, "am I a lesbian?"

- Mod Misa

[authenticallyamethyst]

Day One

I told myself I would never come out again. Coming out once was hard enough.

But yet, today is the day.

For two years now I've questioned my gender. I don't remember how it started, but since my freshman year of college I've had a constant, fleeting feeling that I might not be a "girl" or "woman" after all. This has been hard to accept. Most days I would push the thought out of my head. When I really stopped to consider what my feelings meant, I got frustrated because I couldn't make sense of it.

Here's how I experience gender, and what my dysphoria looks like:

1. The label "girl" is more comfortable than the label "woman," but only as a default. I've been called and categorized a girl my entire life, so I never questioned it. When I think about it now, it doesn't feel completely right. It also doesn't feel adamantly wrong. Imagine shooting an arrow at a target. If the bullseye is my gender identity, then calling myself a "girl" lands on the outer rings.

2. I've never wanted to be or had the feeling that I was a "boy" or "man." In the target example, the arrow falls on the ground.

3. I experience social dysphoria more than mind or body dysphoria. I feel a nagging sense of discomfort when people refer to me as a girl, lady, or other similar words. I wish people would ask my pronouns without defaulting to she/her/hers.

4. I enjoy feeling feminine. After today (more on that in a bit), I want to experiment more with androgynous clothing and see if that sparks any gender euphoria or not. Up until today, I've found comfort in clothing that aligns with my AGAB, and I'm not sure if that will change.

5. About a week ago when I first started journaling about my gender, I tried out a few labels. I believe genderflux works for me because the intensity in which I experience my gender varies. Some days I feel adamant that I am not a girl, other days it's closer to an apathetic feeling. For now, the spectrum label "non-binary" fits me best. I don't fit neatly into the binary boxes of "man" or "woman," and that's the easiest word that applies right now.

What today is.

Today is the day I unofficially/officially come out. Again. In 2018, I came out as bisexual, and that didn't go well. I might go into that more later, but that's the reason I told myself I wouldn't come out again. I had also convinced myself that telling others my gender was outside of the normative experience wasn't important. But I think it is. Maybe I do want to try they/them pronouns with my friends. I want my gender expression to match my gender identity, so today, I am getting a haircut.

For me, it's a momentous occasion, even though I don't think it needs to be. I've had short hair on and off my entire life, starting around 9 years old. Every few years I would grow it out because I held dissatisfaction with having it short. When I was in middle school, I felt isolated. I was the only "girl" (was I a girl then, or did I only assume I was a girl?) in my school with short hair. I felt "othered" and felt deeply upset when people called me a boy. I began to internalize those feelings and think I looked like a boy too. So I grew it out until high school, when in sophomore year I cut it again. I don't remember why exactly, but I kept it for about a year or more and then grew it out until I was 19, and cut it again. And here I am at 20, almost 21, and doing it again. People sometimes make fun of me in a passing way: "You can't decide if you like your hair long or short." I guess they have a point. I've always struggled with the question of whether I should grow it more or chop it off. But hell, maybe I like the process of cutting and growing. I don't know, but it's always something I've come back to. I wonder now if my haircut has always been tied to my gender expression, I just didn't realize and wasn't ready for it before.

Today I'm also going shopping. I'm going to pay equal attention to all of the clothes in the store, not just the ones gendered for "women." I'm hitting up my piercer to see if there's any facial jewelry I want, just because it feels like such a transformative day.

Well, here goes. Class starts in half an hour, and after that, my day really begins. I also haven't actively used Tumblr in years, so it'll be weird being on this website again. But I do feel lonely and want more LGBT+ friends, especially people with similar gender experiences as mine, so maybe this can be an avenue for friendship in addition to documentation, too.

Wish me luck.

[butchspace]

on he/him lesbians (and gnc women in general)

I'm not gonna take asks about this anymore. If you send them in, I'm just gonna delete them (or maybe link to this) because there's more than enough on my blog and on Tumblr in general to explain this to anyone who's willing to learn. If you need some posts on this, I started a tag for it. Also check out the posts I link down at the end of this.

I don't want to jump down anyone's throat about this or make anyone feel bad, but I'm gonna take ~ one paragraph to vent. I get why it might be hard to understand something you've never seen, heard of, and/or experienced. The honest asks that just want to know more aren't that bad. The people who want to understand so they can support us or just to learn about us are ok.

TW for:

(mostly brief) discussions of transphobia, lesbophobia, and misogyny

mentions of racism

I don't like how many asks I see asking why some lesbians use he/him. It sometimes feels like my identity is being questioned. And a lot of them accuse us of being transphobes or of diluting the meaning of language. (All of these anons assume all GNC lesbians are cis and no trans or nonbinary person has ever preferred any pronouns but the ones directly associated with their gender, which is...incorrect.) They come into our inboxes and ask GNC lesbians to lay out every piece of evidence for why they should be allowed to exist, and then twist those words around and make us into villains.

When I say pronouns don't equal gender, I don't mean they're not related or connected. That's actually the precise reason why someone might want to express their gender non-conformity through pronouns. Pronouns are associated with gender, but they are not the absolute & ultimate gender decider. People don't identify as a man because they prefer he/him. It’s usually the other way around. Most people use the pronouns that are directly associated with their gender because of how they identify. A nonbinary person might prefer they/them because those pronouns are gender neutral and affirming. A trans man might prefer he/him because those pronouns are traditionally thought of as male and are affirming. But a nonbinary person is not obligated to use they/them and a trans man is not obligated to use he/him. A cis man is not obligated to use he/him either. People choose their pronouns based on what they are comfortable with. What they are comfortable with is often directly influenced by their gender, but not always. Some people use pronouns that align more with their gender non-conformity or gender presentation. No one is obligated to go by any pronouns they don’t want to.

Misogyny and homophobia intersect and fuck with the lives and identities of LBP women. It makes it weird, hard, and confusing to be women. LBP women of color and trans women experience even more intersections that affect their relationship to womanhood. The only acceptable womanhood (1) is to be a straight, white, cis, able-bodied, thin, gender conforming, etc. woman. Most women are going to have a somewhat complicated relationship to gender. But for any woman who is not everything on this list, it's going to be even harder to navigate. So we do it in different ways. For some women, going by he/him pronouns is one of those ways. Some women present in an untraditional way. Sometimes, they prefer to subvert traditional femininity.

And using he/him isn’t necessarily about a disconnection from womanhood. There are women who are very firmly connected to womanhood who use he/him. It’s about a disconnect from femininity or from gender conformity. But ultimately it’s about experiencing womanhood differently.

And honestly, how does being "masculine" or using """"male"""" pronouns automatically, despite this person identifying as a woman, turn someone into a man. (2) I think any theories about gender identity that discount someone's internal idea of their gender are bad and often have transphobic or misogynist implications.

The bottom line is women (and everyone really) are allowed to express their gender however they want (3 & 4). The fact that there isn't nearly as much backlash about lesbians who use they/them (although there certainly is some) is really telling. People want lesbians to fit into some gender box and never branch out. They especially want lesbians to never ever do anything even remotely associated with men, because this threatens gender roles. But we will never fit into gender boxes. Those gender boxes inherently exclude us. Society wants this of all women, and those boxes are rarely meant for otherwise marginalized women. (5) They are created by misogyny, and heavily informed by homophobia, transphobia, and racism.

And, just to reiterate, men cannot be lesbians. That is no way what I’m saying here and if you thought so you didn’t read the post very well.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Notes:

(1) in some way, there is no acceptable womanhood because of misogyny (see note 5)

(2) a post about why I don't like calling butches in general words associated with men, hence the scare quotes

(3) Do what you want but don't use culture-specific identities that you don't have claim to, don't you slurs you can't reclaim, etc.

(4) a post about gender identity and presentation that goes into more detail about my do what you want philosophy

(5) this is not to say cis het white women always fit into their gender boxes very neatly either. Misogyny affects all women, it just affects LGBT women and women of color in unique ways.

other posts on this subject: x, x, x

even more stuff:

x, x, x

[rainbowamory]

Not My Narrative (on extremist feminism)

This is the reason that when people start talking about feminism, I feel the urge to get up and leave the room. I don’t have a problem with feminism itself. What I DO have a problem with is when feminism pretends to be everything for everyone.

I want to try and put words to something that I have an intense amount of anger about and which I want to get out on a page as a means of unpacking.

If you’re LGBT and you’ve watched stuff on YouTube, you will have come across at least a handful of incredibly ignorant homophobic or transphobic comments. Sometimes these are violent in tone, but other times they are more subtle... condescending. It’s that later kind I want to talk about because sometimes that kind makes me more disgusted than the outright hate.  

This post is about a specific comment that I saw one day under a video made by a lesbian woman. The comment was a response to something I said under the video in defense of trans guys. I was trying to make a distinction between butch lesbians and trans guys, because it is obvious that some people still can’t tell the difference.

The woman’s comment did not in any way or form acknowledge what I was saying. In fact, it didn’t even acknowledge that I even had a voice. Basically, she was saying that transgender people were people with “internalized sexism” or “internalized homophobia” and that this was the reason they go for medical transition. She said that she works with women who have regretted transitioning and that there always seemed to be “internalized sexism” going on.

I responded to her back and fourth a couple of times. But after a certain point, I had to tear myself away from the conversation because it was so one-sided that I might as well have been talking to a stone wall. I don’t believe in one-way discussions, and I don’t believe that matters of personal Identity are up for debate. So I stopped responding. 

This incident stayed with me and even years later it occasionally plays back in my head. I wish I never saw her comment because it’s the kind of thing that makes a person hate humanity. It makes me wonder how many more people walk around the world thinking that transgenderism is “self-hate” or medical transition is “mutilation”. Nowhere in this “conversation” did she even recognize that I have my own perspective; it was calm, self-assured condescension from start to finish.

I stopped responding because I’m smart enough to know that the person who gets the last word is not always right. She got the last word, but I didn’t bother reading her last reply because I didn’t want to continue that loop of bullshit. The incident left me with an unpleasant memory that plays back like a trauma in my head at random times, simply because people don’t forget the feeling of being belittled easily.

Cis female experience is NOT my narrative. My dreams and fantasies have been consistently and even stereotypically “hetero male�� since I was a kid. What I’m attracted to and what I identity with have always existed in two separate boxes in my head.

I read this line in a book once:

“Models of understanding are ways of seeing a thing--not the thing itself”

Extremist feminism doesn’t seem to get this.                                                      

Do those who de-transition exist? Yes. Are there people who have internalized sexism? Yes. Are there people who transition purely for privilege? Yes. That still doesn’t mean that all who say they are Trans are like this.  

My narrative was NEVER the cis female narrative.

How do I put this simply? When I was a kid, I wanted to grow a penis. When I was a teenager, I wanted to grow a penis. When I was in my early 20s, I wanted to grow a penis. Even now, in my late 20s, I still want a penis. And even on my deathbed someday, I will hope that in the afterlife I will finally be a guy.

That’s not confusion. That’s called consistency. It’s called knowing what I want.

That was the way it always was—long before I knew the words “queer” or “trans” or “cis” or “feminism”—long before I knew my sexual orientation even.  It was my #1 dream as a kid and always will be, regardless of whether I can ever make it come true or not. As I said before, the only thing that holds me back is the lack of a magical and painless way to make that dream come true.

Seeing that kind of transphobic garbage that is so wholly disconnected from my actual experience… I don’t even have the words for the disgust I felt. And it was even more traumatic because this was at a time when I was getting ready for top surgery.

This kind of extremist feminism damages the psyche of those who are not cis. It is a true abuse of power when one person feels they can silence another person in full confidence that society will back them up in their oppressive behaviour. It’s a sign not only of the power-hungry nature of some individuals, but also of the corruption in a society… the fact that society hasn’t developed enough to protect the rights of an Individual because they cause an inconvenient disturbance in the neatly constructed dominant narratives. It’s a sign that some people are being given undue power over others’ lives and bodies.

I definitely don’t have “internalized homophobia” because for a time I was perfectly willing to use the label for queer female, even if I didn't feel any resonance with it. 

 As for “internalized sexism,” it’s complicated. It’s very hard to talk about something like gender dysphoria with full honesty without coming off like I have some kind of sexism going on. But the word that I wholeheartedly reject is the word “internalized." That word starts with the assumption that my true self is Cis. It’s not. It never has been. It’s one thing for someone to claim that trans people have some level of sexism but to claim it is “internalized” is yet another kind of invalidation.

You can’t have “internalized” hate about something you never identified with      IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I wondered for the longest time why my journey didn’t feel like it ended when I came out as bi and then gay and then non-binary. It was only after watching (binary) trans men talk about their experiences that I really TRULY felt I understood myself. Even when I came out as “gay” it was reluctantly and I never thought to myself “I want to be someone’s “girlfriend.” When people looked at my relationship, I wanted it to be obvious that I was the guy in the relationship. I still remember looking for a lesbian couple that actually reflected what I wanted (to be the GUY in the relationship) and I saw a couple online that I identified with because one of them behaved more like the masculine one. Fast-forward several years, and that same person came out as TRANS male! It didn’t surprise me at all.

People can talk down to me, they can talk around me, they can talk about me but one thing I will never allow them to do—and which they can never do—is talk FOR me.

That’s what that woman in the YouTube comment was trying to do in that moment. She was trying to talk FOR me. And that’s why I felt such strong emotions and that’s why that interaction still makes me want to punch someone. Nothing in the world feels more dehumanizing that the feeling of someone taking an eraser and erasing your whole life just so they can make sense out of you for their own purposes.

I felt erased in that moment. How do you tell a condescending, arrogant stranger that when you were a kid you used to watch TV shows and wish with pained longing that you were the male characters, every time? That you felt extreme discomfort when being around girls your age because the stuff they talked about didn’t make any sense to you? And you didn’t care because you wanted to be with the guys instead… not in a sexual way, but in a “bro” way.  How do you convey that for the longest time, you were a loner because you didn’t fit anywhere and that even years after coming out these scars still haunt you?

The ridiculous accusation of wanting privilege only makes me roll my eyes. Of course a cis woman wouldn’t possibly be able to understand why else someone would want to BE a guy! Their very brains are different. If you can’t see the worth of basic male experiences (brotherhood, fatherhood, boyfriend, husband, etc) then your head doesn’t work like a guy’s head. If “want of privilege” is the only reason you can imagine wanting to be a guy, you are not a guy on the inside.  You are not binary transgender and you are likely to regret medical transition. But don’t ever apply that to me. I’m not the same.

Do these people think that cis straight women know how cis lesbian minds work? No. They don’t. And yet, they accept lesbian women all the same. There should be NO reason why lesbian women or straight women can’t do the same for trans guys.

When someone feels the need to overwrite another person’s identity, it’s usually because of some kind of deep insecurity of their own. If people really believed in gender equality, then it shouldn’t matter if someone wanted to jump from one gender group into the other. It would not affect anything. Obsessing over other people’s gender transitions is what true obsession with privilege looks like. That’s what socially sanctioned narcissism looks like.  

The only surgery I had was top surgery. It’s been about 3 years since then, and I can tell anyone with full confidence that “Regret” is not a word that would even be in the vocabulary I would use to describe the good it did for my mental health. It was like something extinguished a deep rage that was centered on my chest area. Eternal Gratitude is the only thing I feel, towards the surgeon that gave me that release and empowerment.

I had to force myself to write this post because it meant reliving a memory I'd rather throw into the trash. I just hope that someday there will be cis people out there that can see that kind of interaction clearly for what it was: one person abusing their social privilege and power over another. I hope that someday society will develop enough to look at that kind of abusive person with the same disgust that I feel, and to see that some models of understanding are flawed and only serve one group.

It’s incredibly easy to pick on minorities and to make up all kinds of fictions about them, because in a society full of ignorance, whose is going to stop you? All throughout history minorities have been considered mentally ill for being different, and each time society developed enough to see how wrong their assumptions were. What’s sick and sad is that even after all that, people are still doing this in one form or other. That’s what makes it unforgivable. With that much history to look back on and learn from, to do it again in another form is unforgivable.

As for accusations of “self-hate,” there’s nothing more self-loving than standing up against a whole group of self-entitled people and rejecting their assumptions in defense of one’s truth.

The “Realness” of my experience is something only I and others like me can know. Whatever fiction someone tries to put on top of my reality ultimately does not erase that reality. Transphobic people and the fictions they make up to make sense out of something they don’t even seem to want to understand—those fictions are not my narrative.

[malaloba]

Who do y'all think gave enough of a shit about us to even create an academic field in the first place? Other QUEER people! Also like queer is just easier to verbally say than a term that's 4 to 8 syllables (LGBT to LGBTQIA+). Every time I say LGBT out loud I feel like I'm stumbling over it or someone's gonna get mad because I left a letter out or said them in the wrong order. And I'm a native English speaker with no speech impediments! I imagine it's even harder for people who aren't.

Queer keeps us from getting bogged down in intracommunity arguments like "is the Q for questioning or queer?" or "is the A for asexual, agender, or ally?" or "does this identity really count?" Who's queer? Anyone who identifies as such. Is your identity complicated and doesn't fit neatly under any of the existing letters? That's fine! Are you willing to stand with us? Great, we can always use more help!

We get more done when we're not spending so much time drawing up boxes and trying to figure out who we can exclude. There's strength in numbers after all. Our elders knew what they were doing and had damn good reasons for shouting "We're here, we're QUEER!" Learn and respect them.

no one is saying you have to stop calling yourself queer, and its great that you can reclaim a slur!! Its amazing to bring piwer to urself!!! But some ppl have trauma with the word and that needs to be respected by not using it on lgbt who are uncomfy with ut

Y'all are some of the most disingenuous motherfuckers. I am exhausted. And I am really done with this trauma argument.

A confession: I have been harassed and verbally abused with it/its pronouns before.

I don’t fully understand why some trans people choose to use it pronouns for themselves, and I don’t follow anyone who does anymore because seeing someone referred to as “it” upsets me.

However, I do not shame or belittle trans folks who use it/its pronouns in a reclaiming fashion because it’s none of my business and I am not a piece of obnoxious shit.

If you have trauma associated with the word queer, then you need to respect me and yourself enough to not interact with my blog.

This blog literally has QUEER in its url, name, and description. Every other post on this blog contains the word QUEER. This blog is about QUEER people, for QUEER people, by a QUEER person.

No one is forcing you to interact with this blog. No one is forcing you to interact with the QUEER community. No one is forcing you to apply the word QUEER to your own identity.

Block blogs that have queer in their url. Add the word QUEER to your Tumblr tag blacklist. Download one of the many different apps and browser extensions that exist and use it to hide posts with the word QUEER in them.

Try taking at least some responsibility for your own mental health.

You aren’t queer? You don’t like the word? That’s fine. Your feelings and your trauma are valid.

But hear this: y'all need to leave QUEER people the FUCK alone.

Stop adding “queer is a slur” to our posts.

Stop inviting yourselves onto our posts to whine about the phrase “queer community”.

Don’t reblog our posts if you’re going to tag them with “#q slur”.

Stop making discourse of our genders and sexualities.

Stop trying to create rules over who is allowed to call themselves queer when you yourself are not queer.

Stop sending us invasive messages demanding to know “how” we’re queer or if we’re “really lgbt”.

Stop trying to make the queer community responsible for your personal baggage, as if we aren’t surviving with our own.

Let QUEER people live.

[lovelyscalies]

“I didn’t say if you use the term you’re not LGBT. I said if you use the term and you’re not LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, or trans - and pansexuals are bisexual, ya fucking moron), you’re not LGBT, and I stand by that.”

Aaaaand THAT my friends is why I use queer.  That’s the start of the exclusionist line of reasoning that says, “you must be this tall to ride,” that kept me from even realizing my identity despite struggling with dysphoria all my life.  I never had that perfect clean narrative of knowing myself from high school, I still don’t have a complete label for what I am at literally 31, married with kids and rent, work and taxes.  I kind of don’t think I ever will.  That’s why I can’t use LGBT+ as an umbrella term: because it doesn’t work as an umbrella term. The idea that you have to fit neatly into perfect boxes or you’re out, that old school, boy’s club reasoning repackaged for marginalized identities... because you could always make yourself feel better for being excluded and shamed by turning around and doing it to someone else, am I right?

No.  I can’t do that.  I’ve tried and it didn’t work.  I know what I’m doing isn’t going to work for other people; there is nothing I could do that will work for everyone or even a majority of people.  I’ll say it again, if anyone wants to start a group with a different title because they would feel more comfortable with it, I will be happy to promote it!  But the answer to “why would you use that word for a group term!?” is that a whole heck of a lot of us feel better and safer with it.

(PS, I would prefer at this point for everyone to stop interacting with  charmanderriere directly, he’s already triggered to hell and back and also indicated that this kind of thing is compulsive and self harming.  Please back off and give him some space to unwind rather than trying to further engage.  It won’t help anyone or make it better right now).

[delestre]

Being ace/aro will never make you LGBT on its own. Being LGBT is about gender and subject of attraction. Being Ace/Aro is only about the amount of attraction. Stop spreading the harmful idea that not wanting to bone someone or go steady makes you LGBT. you are LGBT because you're NB, not because of the amount of sexual attraction or romantic attraction you feel.

:/

it’s much easier to call myself ace/aro because i have a very difficult time articulating to anyone, even myself, who and what i’m attracted to. if you really want to get technical? i’m demi-panromantic. i think. i’m constantly questioning it on a day to day basis, but it seems erroneous to label myself as completely aromantic when i do and have experienced romantic attraction, just on an extremely rare basis, and that the gender of the person has never been a very important factor for me.

again. it’s easier to just call myself aro because our current vernacular is ever-changing and i’m not quite the wordsmith that i aspire to be.

furthermore, i call myself ace simply because i experience arousal, but not always attraction. if you really want to get into the nitty gritty, i’d probably also put this down as demi-pansexual. maybe gray pansexual. i’m not sure. i just like to have a “connection” with someone before i fuck them, which is not the same as “going steady”, as you so brilliantly worded your clear misunderstanding of demisexuality. i’ve had sex on the second date with someone. i made someone else wait weeks. it just depends on how well i feel i know them and how soon. i can see why it would be confusing, i really do, but going steady is NOT the same as demisexuality. if you’re going to send me something as asinine as this at least try to put forth a little effort.

how in the world is ace/aro inclusion harmful? who is this hurting??? nobody!! i can concede that my experiences don’t match up with those of someone more confidently gay or bi. i don’t know the experience of a man loving another man, i don’t know the binary trans experience, i don’t know those things, and maybe yeah, i don’t have to be included in every space that discusses those experiences. that’s totally fair, because they should absolutely have that safe space!

but we all still deal with compulsory heterosexuality. everyone in the community. we’re still told we have to fit into boxes that aren’t for us. all of us.

and i don’t know the feeling of coming out and being shamed for loving someone of the same sex/gender. but i do know the invalidation of being told it’s just a phase. i do know, as an afab person, the emotional violation of a man telling me he can prove me wrong about my orientation.

i don’t claim that we have the same experiences or that aces/aros should get the exact same spaces. but i do think certain parts of our lives overlap, and it comes from not fitting so neatly into heteronormative boxes.

but i do in fact experience attraction, however seldom and minimal and weird and difficult for me to articulate, to people of various sexes. i’ve kissed girls and NB folks and boys and had a great time, every time. how dare you? how dare you tell me that the only queer aspect of my queer identity is my gender?

fuck off with this exorcist rhetoric. “harmful” my ass.

EDIT: actually it's 2am and i'm on mobile so i'm probably not as coherent as i'd like to be. i just wanna say that i can see the harm in like, prudish or shy str8 folk thinking they belong in the community, but i want to reiterate that going steady is not the same as being on the ace/aro spectrum.but also fuck you.