#let will byers have powers in s5

[miwiluvv]

If you think about it they would make such a powerful trio

[apocalyptic-byler]

THINKING ABOUT HOW BIG OF A POWER MOVE IT WOULD BE TO HAVE SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO AS THE SONG FOR THE S5 TRAILER

[offsidetracked]

Will, Chance, and the Final Girl Reimagined

Will is at the mercy of circumstance in S1-S4. It's one of the most common criticisms I see from dudebros of his character:

Things just happen to him, and he lets them.

And while that's a one-dimensional take, it's not entirely wrong: Will starts out as the DAMSEL IN DISTRESS who needs to be saved from the horrors after all. He endures, but he doesn't take action. And in the limited capacity he does, he's immediately punished by the narrative for it.

But Will is also clearly a FINAL GIRL.

And that requires agency.

Don't worry Will, you're in good company.

The term final girl was coined by Carol J. Clover in the fantastic Men, Women and Chainsaws, and is a common horror movie trope, especially in slashers.

The final girl is a female character who is the last survivor left to confront the killer. She is usually intelligent, resourceful, and has a moral purity compared to the other characters (avoids sex, drugs, and reckless behavior in general). The final girl is brutally hunted by the killer and often witnesses her friends dying before she starts to fight back, either until she escapes or the killer dies.

Will is already not your average final girl, even if he clearly embodies the core traits of the trope. He is a gender-bent queer version, something that has implications for how the trope will play out in S5.

Things are about to get interesting.

By now, it probably hasn't escaped anyone that there´s a rod motif and allusions to Phineas Gage woven like a red thread through Will's character arc. The last shot we see of him with both is the most on the nose it's been since he destroyed Castle Byers:

Phineas, Phineas... how we obsess over you.

Will is back in Hawkins, and we're reminded that despite being more accepting of his sexuality and embracing his feelings for Mike, he's still very much split. Split by a phallic-looking object.

Clover makes an interesting observation about the phallic, the final girl, and the masculine:

"The tale is no less one of maleness. If the experience of childhood can be—is perhaps ideally—enacted in female form, the breaking away requires the assumption of a phallus. The helpless child is gendered feminine; the autonomous adult of subject is gendered masculine; the passage from childhood to adulthood entails a shift from feminine to masculine."

Childhood is a profoundly feminine period in any person's life. Your power, autonomy, and agency, all traits associated with the masculine, are limited. Instead you are, for better or worse, in a state of reception. You follow, learn, and receive. A highly feminine-coded way of being.

Adolescence is the liminal place where we transition. It's neither childhood nor adulthood but an awkward in-between, like being stuck between two slides in a View-Master.

Teenagers, like the final girl, complete the journey by increasingly stepping into masculine-coded agency. They take action. Often by experimenting.

The final girl takes the step by coming into her sexuality metaphorically: she takes the knife, the chainsaw, or other phallic object from the killer and turns it against him:

"She's the one who killed him. Not because she's a virgin, but because all that repressed energy starts coming out. She uses all those phallic symbols on the guy. She and the killer have a certain link: sexual repression." —John Carpenter on final girl Laurie Strode

I'm sceptical of Will going the violently confrontational route with Vecna. @pinkeoni made a great point about how it would imply that Will's feminine traits are something that needs to be overcome.

Where other final girls found metaphorical outlets for their sexual energy, Will might confront his more directly. Initially, with someone who is simultaneously a manifestation of his sexual suppression, an attempt to break away from it, and a warped version of what he wants to have with Mike.

Namely, this guy:

Yeah, I know how it sounds. But bear with me a little.

Slashers are generally not kind to sexually active characters; they often meet an untimely death early on in the movie. It's more rule than exception that they're punished for their sexuality.

Who else was punished for their sexuality and seen as morally corrupt by the narrative in the 1980s at the height of the AIDS crisis? Homosexual men.

It's crucial that Will not only explores his sexuality, but also uses it as a vehicle for liberation and agency. He's not going to end up sad and alone by the end of the show. Ultimately, he's going to be rewarded for stepping out of the closet and into himself as a queer young man. He's going to get the happiness he barely dares to dream about.

But if the show has been any indication so far, it's going to be a bumpy, chaotic, and messy ride to get there.

@therainscene has noted how Will's rebellious, defiant side is considerably diminished by the end of S4. The slim hope brought on by the painting is crushed, and he no longer believes a happy ending is possible. But instead of lashing out, he seems almost wistfully accepting. His silent tears in the van are a far cry from his angry outburst in Castle Byers.

He has admitted defeat.

But that doesn't mean he will sit back and do nothing next season. If anything, it's going to be the opposite.

Will's acceptance is his first real step towards autonomy. It's often not until we surrender that we start to exercise our ability to act. And only when we act do we have any say in our story.

Will trails after Mike and El all throughout S4, and while he rekindles his friendship with Mike and manages a couple of stolen moments of flirtatious energy, he's ultimately left wanting. It's not enough anymore. And it seems to be all he's ever going to get.

Add the Phineas No-Longer-Gage aspect of it all, and it's not far-fetched at all to assume that Will is going to engage in some uncharacteristic behaviour next season.

He's going to attempt, and fail, to move on.

Moving on from someone you still have feelings for is messy. You might make some highly questionable choices. Especially if you're a closeted queer teen in the 80s with limited options.

Will exploring and experimenting with his sexuality further subvert the expectations we have of a final girl. Where she uses metaphor and moral purity, Will is going to step away from both in the most hands-on way possible.

It will allow him to "wield the phallus" without compromising or erasing the feminine aspects of his character. Sexuality is inherently feminine and masculine after all. You can't leave any part out if you want to be whole.

According to Jung, sexuality is more than a purely biological drive.

It's a life force, an energy, that drives all human development, including spirituality and creativity. Integrating one's sexuality, including its shadow aspects, is critical if a person wants to move towards psychological wholeness:

"Pressures to conform or deny natural instincts create neuroses and psychological splits between inner needs and outer demands." —Carl Jung

By exploring his sexuality outside of Mike, Will is confronting his sexual shadow and the effects of suppressing it for so long. He's going "dark side" without having to go villain. It would also allow Stranger Things to take the psychoanalytic elements of the final girl trope further than possibly any other piece of horror media.

Dealing with the shadow is no child's play. But Stranger Things has proven to be a show that doesn't shy away from letting its characters handle dark, complex themes.

The AIDS metaphor is going to be more... direct next season.

Awakening Will's sexuality will also, most likely, be intrinsically linked to awakening powers that tie him to the laboratory, El, Vecna, and the UD. How this will play out, I'll leave to smarter people to figure out. What seems plausible is that:

Will's journey will culminate when he steps into his powers: sexual, emotional, and supernatural. Sexual exploration is, in other words, a key to Will fulfilling his role as the final girl and subsequently the entire plot of Stranger Things.

And not all of it can be done with Mike.

He's the one person Will needs a little autonomy from right now. Unpopular opinion perhaps, but I stand by it. Sadly trailing behind him and El simply won't do next season. And it would serve Mike's character arc to get a reality check.

If you snooze, you lose, lover boy.

Once byler come together, and I believe they will, it's going to be on equal footing.

So why Chance, this seemingly random jock? They could do this with a new character just as well.

Because there are clues within the show, at least throughout S4, that imply it will be him. There are way too many to recount here, and I don't view them all as equally credible. But more than enough of them are credible to make me believe this is where the story might be going.

And honestly? I'm pretty excited about it.

[willbyersmikewheeler]

Thoughts on the trailer:

I’ve been in shock so I haven’t actually said my thoughts on the trailer. So let me speak my truth now:

Ok, Joyce and Will, that opening man - that really got me screaming quietly because it was 3am. It was so healing to see them finally talk about it, we haven’t see that yet and I better see more conversations like that in s5 - them being able to talk about their trauma and start healing from it hopefully.. I’m happy to get that Joyce being a mother dynamic again with honestly, everyone not just will. Since, no shade to Joyce she was going through a lot but, I feel as though that mother dynamic was neglected due to her other story lines so I’m very happy to return to MOTHER JOYCE. Her with that axe? OH….LORD. Powerful. She’s gonna be so mother this season I know it.

THE WILL VOICE OVER, OH ITS SO HIS SEASON. SO HAPPY. LOVED THAT.

OK,,,, now wasn’t the biggest fan of half of the trailer being flashback scenes - BUT, we have already worked out a lot from leaks and stuff, so it’s just to not spoil the plot. So, sad but meh it’s fine - we got content, that’s all I need.

BARN SCENE - OK,,, what’s banging down the damn door? Joyce w axe!! From left to right in the background we have : Will, Erica, Derek, and Robin. Will and Robin interaction officially confirmed !! I’m aware we all knew already but I’m happy asf with Will and Robin interacting. Derek is either on the second floor, or floating to which HUH?? Hella confused.

HOLLY AND KAREN: Been knew that this was gonna happen, but still confused of what they are shocked at - ted isn’t in the shot so…. Maybe something is happening to him? I’m excited too see where they’ll go with this new storyline and exploring these characters more.

LUMAX, the only ship *cough cough* Byler was technically shown together *cough cough* that was shown in the teaser! We’ve seen this shot in bts before twice now, so easy shot to include. I’m happy that max is out of that full body cast but, how they are gonna wake her up and she plays a part in this season is a question mark for me right now.

DUSTIN & STEVE SHOT: Them looking up at something, we’ve seen this in leaks before - not sure what they’re doing but you can’t really tell much of anything from this shot. Other than a beaten up Dustin to which, been knew. The bullies obviously beat him up, confused on the timeline of these events though…hmmmmm.

HOPPER & EL: Ok, first off the duos are so clear by this teaser trailer! And I’m so happy for the hopper and el dynamic to come back full swing. We see alarms blasting as El screams and hopper comforts her, I’m not to sure where they are? Maybe the lab? Definitely somewhere that’s high security. And then, the edge of the wall - and hopper and el standing there looking at it, I’m very interested as to what this is and what the hell that brain like stuff is on the wall. The edge of the upside down because it only exists in Hawkins?? Are they in someone’s mind?? Hmmm interesting!

LEADER MIKE LEADER MIKE: OH, I LOVE THIS SHOT. OK LOADS TO UNPACK,,,

Mike is wet in this shot??? what?? And don’t think I forgot about that will byers wet bts pic too, byler is see you.

Mike protecting kids + Will & Joyce, I knew Derek was being added but I didn’t know about the other kids - I saw multiple people say that, they are Holly’s friends and … Mike sees himself in one of them and realises his feelings for Will were romantic. ABSOLUTE CINEMA. While I love Mike being a protector to those kids, I really hope they aren’t paired up with those kids for the entire season. I need Byler to have some solo moments.

Will in Joyce’s arms in the background,,, oh I feel ILL. Why is my poor boy exhausted / nearly unconscious?? From powers usage or injury…? I just want him to be happy guys.

MILITARY SHOT: NOW WHAT THE HELLY. Ok, the upsidedown ,saw someone say dragon from the painting and I do need that now, breaking the concrete.. SICK AS HELL.

WILL ONCE AGAIN PASSED OUT IN THE BACKGROUND WITH JOYCE BY HIM (?), NOT AS SICK AS HELL. IM SCARED FOR HIM, DESPITE ME KNOWING HES GONNA LIVE. STILL WANT HIM TO BE OK.

WILL SCREAMING - SO, we have our answers it was will screaming at Mike to run!! VERY TERRIFYING. AMAZING SHOT / SCENE. HORRIFYING SCREAM. EXCITED BUT SCARED. Not sure, why he’s screaming duh, But two main running theories are Will and something to do with possession or powers or both?.. I’m sat you guys.

I’M HAPPY THE TEASER TRAILER IS OUT, NOT SO HAPPY ABOUT THE GA BUT SIGHS GUESS ILL PUT UP WITH IT.

[love-byers]

Hi! Not gonna lie I was a bit disappointed that you believe the birthday gate stuff... The Duffers wouldn't have admitted to have made a mistake if that were the case. And most of all, it would've come up in volume 2! Now if something happens in S5 it would just feel like they came up with it during the 3 years between S4 and S5. They can say it was planned all they want, people would call bullshit, and rightfully so. I'm sorry I can not believe how anyone can think birthday gate could be a real thing. Not to mention it doesn't even make any sense. Please bylers let's just accept the Duffers made a mistake!!

i disagree with everything you said

1. "the duffers wouldn't have admitted to have made a mistake if that were the case"

they lied.

the duffers are sneaky snakes who want us to analyze and always be looking for little details. they have literally said there are no coincidences in the show.

so yes, i completely believe that they would go out of their way to lie in order to save the surprise for s5. i mean actually think about it, if it really was just a mistake, why would they not just fix it?? they have the full power to just do a little voiceover edit and boom, problem solved. they explained exactly how they'd do it. but they didn't. 2 years have passed and they still haven't changed it when that little tweak would literally solve all their problems if it really was a mistake.

they lied. they're liars.

2. "it would've come up in vol 2"

since when does every single problem have to be solved in one season?? do you know what show you're watching??

there are hints and foreshadowing all over the seasons. vecna is foreshadowed in s1 ep1 when will's door was opened with telekinesis, and we had no idea he existed until 6 years and 3 seasons later.

in s1 they don't fully explain how will was communicating with joyce. but after s4 everything clicks into place.

they show us that will can clearly hear her and is finding a way to make the lights light up. then in ep 8 they show joyce and hopper making the christmas lights light up as they walk through the byers upside down house. jonathan sees this and asks if it's joyce, and joyce hears him.

that isn't addressed AT ALL in s2 or s3. it is fully explained and explored in s4, when nancy steve eddie and robin are stuck in the upside down. they fully show us how it works and acknowledge that it was how will communicated with joyce.

the creators knew exactly how the light upside down stuff worked the entire show. but it wasn't time for it to be explained just yet. it was meant to come up later on. it's a masterful way to write a story with longevity.

stranger things teaches you to never just write something off. everything is important. don't let it go just because it hasn't been fully explained. there will be payoff.

3. "now if it comes up in s5 it would just feel like they came up with it the 3 years between s4 and s5. people would call bullshit."

respectfully i think you're projecting a bit.

the average viewer who does not spend their time on forums is not going to think that whatsoever. the average viewer is going to think "wait what?!", go back and watch s4 ep 2, and think "holy shit it was planned all along that's so cool!"

like that's such a dumb way of thinking. you have to be a master level hater to see a well written plot twist and think "they just did that to cover their asses" like that's some next level hating

and i guarantee you once s5 comes out the duffers will be like "yeah of course we had to lie you guys were too close to figuring it out!"

david harbour has talked about how hard it was for him to flat out lie to people about hopper being dead. it's really not that crazy to think they lied

4. "it doesn't even make any sense"

....it does.

i don't know how you could think it doesn't make sense

rink o mania day was march 22nd. will's birthday. they have not changed his birthday. his official canonical birthday is still march 22nd.

but no one mentions it. even will doesn't seem to know it's his birthday.

s4 is all about memories and trauma and feeling isolated from others. we also literally learn there is a powerful monster man who can read minds and enter other people's memories, just like el can. so i don't see how it's so outlandish to think there's some memory fuckery going on.

of course we can't explain exactly why or how, because it hasn't been adressed yet. you have to wait for the pay off.

5. "just accept the duffers made a mistake"

i would accept that they made a mistake if they actually fixed the mistake LIKE THEY SAID THEY WOULD. they said "we are going to edit the episode and change it to say may 22nd" and then DIDNT. EVER.

and not only that, they wished him happy birthday on march 22nd 2 years in a row. noah schnapp posted a bts photo on march 22nd 2024 with the caption "Do you know what March 22nd is? It's your birthday. - Joyce Byers"

they are saying "yes it's still his birthday so get hyped for s5 where it'll be addressed" every way they can without spelling it out for you.

i really don't know what more you need

[itslikesearcingforsomething]

elephant in the room

now if we’re being serious, what is about to happen with stranger things is incredibly important for queer people all around the world in our reality today. i’m not comparing it to legal actions but representation is extremely significant and sometimes even more than reforms, because being queer legally doesn’t equal being socially acceptable. with that, i’d like to make my point clear, stranger things has the opportunity to make a real impact on current state of society.

i don’t say anything about actors here, because it’s not what my blog is about, but i would betray my own beliefs and appear hypocritical if i won’t mention one issue, actor that plays the most important character in this context being a zionist, that makes a lot of people hard to relate and feel for will byers, wich is valid. we’re people and we feel conflicted about most things in life, especially when it comes to politics, everything is political. i know that majority of our byler fandom supports this actor, i don’t. i won’t discuss this, but read the rest, it’s not my main point.

with that being said, stranger things just ended filming. no matter what we think, writers already did the thing. honest to heart, i’m really anxious. i’m stressed out thinking how did they handle everything? how did they make a choice, what kind of? ten years of hard work and millions of viewers, the stakes are high. i feel like stranger things in s5 will do a lot of tip toeing around, slowly getting GA warmer and warmer for the big “plot” wich is byler endgame. they have a lot of work and pressure, it leaves me wondering how good they did. they have to make will byers very likeable, so everyone can empathise with him, root for him. they have to make mike’s subtle internal conflict (for byler audience it’s clear) really well written and direct at the same time. they have to make mileven break up right, without damaging characters of eleven, will and mike. it’s hard, it’s scary. i don’t think any show this big did something like that. the power that we have now in our lack of knowledge of what will be in season five is huge. let’s cherish this calm before the storm.

[redshoes-blues]

Emotional Time Travel: How Will Byers Controls Time in the Upside Down

"We are all time travellers, if you think about it."

Buckle up, everybody, this is gonna be a long one! :)

Over a year ago I wrote an analysis on the references to clocks throughout Stranger Things, and looked at how this connects to the show's specific form of time travel. This post is a bit of a redo of that original analysis, but this time I'm focusing on the idea that emotions have the power to alter the movement of time. And not only this, but Will Byers specifically has the power to control time in the Upside Down.

From the clock symbolism throughout the show to the time travel references, it’s clear that S5 is going to delve fully into the way the Upside Down operates; more specifically, I suspect we'll finally get answers to the question raised last season—why is the UD stuck on the day Will vanished?

I have some ideas on how that might work, and it has to do with emotions, which are described in ST as a way to time travel, as El says it best herself in the opening of S4: "We are all time travellers, if you think about it."

[CW: this will delve into the various forms of trauma and abuse faced by Vecna's targets in the show]

The Vanishing of Will Byers: Time Travel and Dimension X

First of all, let's deal with the obvious. The Upside Down, aka Dimension X, is a dimension that is stuck in the past. This is tied directly to Will Byers, given that it exists perpetually as the date he vanished. Therefore, entering the Upside Down is a form of interdimensional time travel.

To me, this could work in one of three ways, although a combination of these factors could also be at play here.

First, the UD could be a fixed point in time. A place where time doesn't work. It acts as a set piece, where characters can move around and exist within, but otherwise, it remains the same. In this case, it is quite literally frozen from the moment Will is taken. However, there are some things in the UD that do change. The weather, for example. Or vines that move and grow. So it's really hard to say how the fixedness would work. Perhaps, if this is the case, time is fixed and frozen, even non-existent, but space isn’t.

Second, is the idea that the Upside Down exists as a time loop. How long the loop would be, we don't know for sure. All we know is that the UD is stuck, somehow, on November 6, 1983. Maybe the loop is a single day long. Maybe it goes on for the entire duration of Will being missing. Either way, the time loop is certainly a plausible theory for how time operates in the UD.

Another important thing to consider is S5's use of A Wrinkle in Time as a source for inspiration, which brings me to the third way that time could operate in the Upside Down. Now, it has been awhile since I read AWIT, but there's an important concept in that novel called a tesseract. This is basically a way of travelling through time and space, to a fourth dimension. Looking at ST, this seems like a likely culprit for what's going on with the UD, which would be a sort of fourth dimension in this case. Vecna as much as says the UD is a fourth dimension himself:

"I became an explorer. An explorer of a realm unspoiled by mankind. I saw so many things, and one day, I found the most extraordinary thing of all."

But Vecna isn’t the only one to explicitly refer to the Upside Down as another dimension/realm. The government call it “Dimension X,” and the Party refer to it as the “Shadow Realm” pretty early on, an analogy to D&D’s location of the same name.

Now, I went googling for a description of the Shadow Realm, and I found this one that is very telling: “The Shadow realm is a realm caught between the realms of the living and the dead, a place where the boundaries of time and reality blur.” [link to article]

Looking at the UD, this absolutely makes sense as the location of choice that the Party (aka, the writers) chose to compare it to. As we’ve discussed, time does blur in the UD, and things don’t always happen as they would in Hawkins (there are strange storms, cosmic horror style monsters, etc.). Perhaps, in this realm, time itself doesn't even exist in a way that makes sense to us.

Now, going back to Vecna, we see that this sort of fourth dimension where time doesn’t exist as it should is exactly what he wishes to achieve.

On his motivations, Henry Creel says this: "Seconds. Minutes. Hours. Days. Weeks. Months. Years. Decades. Each life a faded lesser copy of the one before. Wake up. Eat. Work. Sleep. Reproduce. And die."

Clearly, he feels burdened by the limitations of how time functions in the real-world. This is why, he explains, "I became an explorer."

Now, the Upside Down we see him enter is very different from the one that Will is taken to, and the one we see from S1 onwards. There are two people we know that may be responsible for this change in appearance. Either Vecna shaped the world to his liking, or Will did.

Maybe it's a both/and situation. After all, we know Vecna has powers and has been communicating with the Mind Flayer (who seems to be a sort of eldritch/cosmic god/force of the UD) for years. However, it is Will's vanishing that shapes the "time" of the Upside Down.

Will vanished on November 6, 1983, which is the same day that the UD is stuck on. This means that the Upside Down is inexplicably tied to him. Why it's tied to him is hard to say. He's the first kid Vecna kidnapped, and it is very interesting that he didn't just kill Will like he does his other victims: there's something different about Will.

I'll get into that later, but for now, what does this mean for Hawkins, where the UD is beginning to leak out of the gates?

As I mentioned previously, it's clear that one of Vecna's goals is to create a world that is "unburdened" by time's constraints. As the gates open up, we see a clock turning backwards (see: gif above), which may represent how time is slowing down or ceasing to exist the same way it always has.

If we want to get metaphorical about how time functions in Hawkins vs. the Upside Down and Vecna's mind lair, just look at the first sign of someone's Vecna vision, which is represented by a chime of the Creel house clock. For Vecna's targets, time is literally running out. Not only because they're about to die in Hawkins, but because they're about to enter a dimension where the passage of time does not exist.

"We Are All Time Travellers": Emotions Alter Time

Let's back things up a little bit.

Last spring, I was rewatching S4 to look for any references to time travel (turns out there's a lot of them when you go looking for them). It didn't take long for me to get a reference. In fact, there's one in El's opening monologue, as part of her letter to Mike.

"Dear Mike. Today is day 185. Feels more like ten years. Joyce says time is funny like that. Emotions can make it speed up or slow down. We are all time travellers, if you think about it. For example, this week is going very fast because I am so busy..."

In one sense, El's line here is describing how time can literally feel fast or slow depending on how we feel. For example, if we're busy and happy, time often goes by fast, but it we're upset, time can feel slow. Of course, I believe this line also has a deeper meaning that foreshadows what we later learn about the Upside Down being tied to Will’s vanishing.

It's no coincidence that in the season whose villain is represented by clocks, who is tied to a dimension where time is wonky, and who feels burdened by the existence of time, this opening scene mentions time travel directly. It's also important that El says this line. She's the one who opened the gate in the very first scene of the season, after all. She's also the one who goes through the NINA program, which is essentially sending her back into time (through her memories) to access her powers again. Isn’t it interesting that revisiting her traumatic experiences is what restores her powers?

If we take what El says literally, emotions actually have the power to speed up or slow down time, and not just our perception of it, depending on which emotions are felt. This bit about emotions is vital. As we know, the UD is shaped around Will's vanishing, which is a traumatic experience that he continues to deal with for years after it has occurred.

Now, this begs the question: did time in the UD slow down because Will left an emotional imprint on the landscape via his childhood trauma?

Again, it isn't a coincidence that Will's vanishing is the day that the Upside Down is stuck on. The "demogorgon"—which is pretty obviously going to be revealed to be Vecna—took Will into this fourth dimension, traumatizing him in the process.

All of Vecna's victims in the 80s timeline are also victims of trauma and/or abuse in their childhoods. Chrissy and Patrick have an abusive parent, and Fred has trauma from the car accident. Max has mental health issues and a complicated family life that we see in detail—an abusive brother whose death she blames herself for, suicidal ideation, a dad who isn't in the picture, a mom who becomes an alcoholic, and that's not to mention the inherent traumatizing circumstance of living in poverty. Will is also implied to have been abused by Lonnie, who called him homophobic slurs and turned into an awful deadbeat who doesn’t accept that his son doesn’t follow traditional masculine gender norms; he's also bullied at school for being different.

Each of these victims of abuse and/or trauma are all targets by Vecna. They have that in common. And we know that Vecna is targeting these kids on purpose because we see him sifting through his mind lair to select his next candidate. How does he do this? By looking at these kids' experiences and selecting someone vulnerable.

After Patrick is killed, Lucas and Max say as much when they discuss Vecna's motivations. To them, to be hurt us to be haunted:

Lucas: "It's like everyone Vecna targets has something in their life...something that's—"

Max: "Hurting them. Haunting them."

With this in mind, it begins to look as if Vecna is using the trauma and hurt of these kids because their emotions are strong enough to create gates, and therefore to alter—or even slow down—time.

Interestingly, the psionic powers of the lab kids seem to be impacted by their emotions as well.

Dr. Brenner tells the kids in the NINA memory to not use their emotions, but it’s One’s advice to El—to focus on something that makes her angry and sad—that helps her win the battle against Two. Brenner is so angry at One’s interference here that he tortures him for it. We know that Henry Creel was the original kid with telepathic powers who was experimented on. Somehow, Dr. Brenner learned to develop powers in these other kids, but it’s Henry/One who first received his powers from the Mind Flayer. Even as a kid, he understands that channeling negative feelings makes his powers grow stronger.

Before we look at why I believe Will is the only one truly capable of restoring the Upside Down to the way it was before, aka Dimension X, I want to dive a little bit deeper into Vecna’s targets themselves.

The Trauma of Vecna's Targets

There isn't a single main character in this show who isn't traumatized, hurting, haunted, or a victim of various societal pressures and/or forms of oppression. This isn't an accident. These themes are built into the show on purpose. Sometimes they aren't handled as well as they could or should be, but they're certainly present.

When we look at Vecna's victims, the reason they were his "perfect" targets is because of their vulnerability.

Lucas suspected Patrick was dealing with abuse at home, but Patrick never talked about it with anyone. Same with Fred's guilt about the hit-and-run. He's terrified of the idea that he'll be found out, so he never tells anyone about his visions. In the case of Chrissy, her own boyfriend has no idea about what she's going through, and she turns to drugs for an escape from her pain. If Max hadn't confided in her friends about her visions, equipped with her knowledge of Vecna and the Upside Down, then she would have had the same fate as them.

So, not only are Vecna's victims people who have something in their life that is hurting or haunting them (trauma, abuse, mental health issues, etc.), but they are also actively repressing these emotions. With this, I think the writers are trying to say that opening up about what you're going through with other people who care about you is vital to your survival and well-being.

Healing from trauma requires you to confront the emotions and/or experiences many people would rather suppress. I think El is a good case study for this. She is very clearly a traumatized character who is a victim of child abuse. Much of it is stuff she doesn’t actively remember, because she has repressed it, as we see in the NINA project. But despite her repression, the trauma, those memories, are still with her. She believes she's a monster, and she carries this guilt around with her for years. But El is also very resilient.

In fact, she confronts her trauma head-on in the NINA project. She relives her abusive childhood, the bullying she experienced, and the massacre, and she comes out of it a stronger person—even though she doesn't beat Vecna this time around, because she’ll require the help of someone else who is deeply tied to the UD if she wants to beat him.

Looking back at what Henry Creel knew from a young age, that his pain and experiences could be a source of his power, it becomes clear why he’s killing all of these traumatized kids. He’s doing so to harness the power in those experiences, perhaps because their emotions will affect the UD and cause time to slow down.

However, when El talks about emotions as a way to time travel in the beginning of S4, she isn’t just referring to negative emotions like boredom or sadness, etc. She also refers to positive emotions which make time move faster. If Vecna used his targets’ trauma to slow down time—originating with Will’s arrival in the UD—then maybe it is positive emotions, like love, acceptance, and healing, that will undo the changes Vecna has made in the UD.

Will The Wise: Why Will Byers is the Antidote

Will's connections to the UD are my main reason for believing he is the key to defeating Vecna. It began with Will, and it will end with him, too.

This is also supported in the text.

D&D always forms a direct analogy to the events that happen in any given season of Stranger Things, and it's through the lens of D&D that the Party describe the happenings in the Upside Down. For example, Will rolls a 7 in the first episode of the show, and tells Mike that "it [the demogorgon] got me." Later, the creature we're told is a demogorgon does get Will.

So, that's why the D&D campaign run by Eddie in S4 is very interesting, as it serves as foreshadowing for the rest of the season. An 11 is rolled first. This is a miss. It isn't until Erica—who is an unlikely hero in this campaign—rolls a 20 that Vecna is defeated.

It's crazy foreshadowing that an 11 is rolled, which isn't enough to defeat Vecna, in the season where Eleven is not able to defeat Vecna on her own, despite her powers being stronger than they've ever been. That's because power isn't the only thing at play, here. And we don't know yet who will be the Erica in this story, the underdog who will swoop in and join the fight, being the unlikely hero to defeat Vecna, but I think the missing piece will be Will.

It's like Dustin said in reference to his drawing skills (interesting, because when Will drew to solve the puzzle before, it was directly related to his connection to the Upside Down): "we need Will."

This brings me back to the main point of this analysis. If emotions alter time—with traumatic memories causing time to slow down, and causing Vecna to gain power—and if the Upside Down is shaped around Will's trauma, then confronting Will's trauma is crucial to Vecna's defeat.

Everything goes back to Will. To the moment he entered the UD on November 6, 1983. The very day the Upside Down is frozen on is the same day that Will's trauma began. By experiencing his trauma and imprinting those emotions onto the dimension, did Will quite literally grind time to a halt in the UD?

I certainly think so. And we've already seen a little bit of how positive memories can be used to fight against Vecna. Music is shown to carry positive memories and emotions, almost forming a shield around a person, as was the case for Max and Will, who were able to fight back through the power of music. If we take this a step further, it makes sense that healing from his Upside Down trauma, would work as a sort of antidote to Vecna, who feeds off of people's trauma. He only targets people, haunts them, if they are hurting. Heal the hurt, and he has no use for you any longer.

Functionally, this could work a number of ways. I think it could work by Will re-entering the UD and bringing positive emotions with him. Maybe the UD would reshape itself again, this time in a more positive way, removing the "rot" that has existed there since Will first entered. After all, Dimension X does not appear to be inherently evil like the Upside Down, it’s only when it begins to shape around trauma that it changes and rots.

Some Final Thoughts

If we consider that it was Vecna who took Will, then it’s clear that Vecna's goal isn't to kill Will. In fact, in S2, Dr. Owens asks Will if the evil wants to kill him, to which Will responds that the Mind Flayer wants to kill "everyone else."

Why? Because Will has powers that Vecna wishes to exploit for his plan. Because, by keeping Will and his strong connection to the Upside Down alive, he caused the Mind Flayer to enter Will, giving him the ability to feel what it feels—and later, in S4, to feel what Vecna feels.

My speculation, given all of the similarities between Will and Henry Creel, is that Vecna hopes Will will come to see his view as the correct one. He recognizes that Will is treated differently, that he’s an outsider, and he wants to exploit this to have Will join his side. Like the Emperor to Anakin, and later Luke, Vecna doesn’t actually care about Will: he’s manipulating his emotions to access his power. He didn’t keep him alive out of the goodness of his heart. He kept him alive because he knows that Will’s emotions have the power to alter time in the UD.

Killing Will simply wouldn’t serve his purpose of using his trauma to keep the UD stuck in time, grinding it to a halt.

Because, if Will’s emotions have the power to imprint on the Upside Down to the degree that he shapes the way an entire dimension appears and operates, everything begins to make sense. That’s why Vecna kept him alive: to continue his plan of removing the burden of time from the world. That’s why the UD is shaped around him. And that’s why Eleven could not defeat Vecna on her own.

Will controls time in the Upside Down. He shapes it through his emotions and experiences. His fear and trauma slowed down the movement of time, so, if Vecna is to be defeated, it only seems plausible that healing from his trauma, learning that he is loved and accepted for who he is—that he’s not a mistake—will have the opposite impact. By doing so, time will speed back up in Dimension X, healing it in the process.

In the end, everything began with Will. It was his vanishing that kicked off the story we’ve followed for what’ll be five seasons. And it’ll be him that brings an end to everything, as well.

Author’s Note

Thank you to everyone who stuck around and read this whopper of a theory/analysis! Writing it has been a long (but very fun) process. I started writing this about three weeks ago, as a rewrite of my old clock theory with more of a focus on how I think the UD functions, but then it grew into a beast of its own. I just couldn’t help it! When I get a meta idea about Will in my head, I can’t not write thousands of words about it lmao.

That said, I always love to read other people’s thoughts on these theories—it’s truly the best part of our little community on here. So please, feel free to add onto this if you have any ideas! :)

—Em

[cypherheartnokey]

“Brokeback Mountain” ⛰️ (2004), Byler, & Bychance

The glaringly obvious connection that all of us have been missing.

And it goes WAY deeper than you thought.

⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️

Ennis del Mar (Heath Ledger) = Mike Wheeler:

-> the love of his life is the man highlighted in yellow below;

-> repressed feelings;

-> refusal to fulfill what he truly wants;

-> refusal to accept & admit who he really is;

-> beard relationship with a woman who knows he’s gay & she’s extremely jealous & resentful of it (this is true for Ennis; and while we don’t yet truly know about Eleven, let’s just say my controversial opinion on s5 is that… things in this department are not going as smoothly as most are assuming right now).

⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️

Jack Twist (Jake Gyllenhaal) = Will Byers:

-> more emotional expression;

-> higher emotional & sexual needs that he needs to fulfill;

-> more ease at being & expressing his true self.

-> the love of his life is the man highlighted in blue above;

-> however, because that man won’t properly commit to a gay life, Jack/Will finds himself forced to try to fulfill his emotional & sexual needs somewhere else.

⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️

“Somewhere Else”™️ = Mexico 🇲🇽

That’s right, fellow Bylers…

In the iconic quintessential most universally famous queer movie Brokeback Mountain, there’s a crucial point in the story where Jack (Will) goes to Mexico (near the border) & “cheats” on Ennis (Mike) with Latino male prostitutes & also other affairs (including cowboy!David Harbour himself lmfaoo).

Jack & Ennis’s most famous & iconic scene is literally them arguing over this, and Ennis (Mike) feeling extremely betrayed, hurt & jealous over this entire Mexico thing.

Jack (Will) snaps back basically saying that he did want a life with Ennis (Mike), but Ennis wouldn’t give him the presence, the affection, the frequency that he needed. And so, obviously, Jack looked elsewhere.

That was the last time they saw each other & from then on the story only gets even more tragic.

⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️

Chance & Will have so far been associated to Mexico & Latin America in at least seven different ways:

1 — 🇲🇽 Sombrero hat:

The Mexican sombrero hat on the Tiger 🐅 plushie in Will’s s4 bedroom— right when Mike & Will have their heart-to-heart where they pledge to be best friends again (duffers you’re diabolical).

PLUS the video the Duffers had s3 Noah take while wearing the very same sombrero. It’s Will jumping on a bed seductively while cheering “¡Hola!” in a cheeky smile 😭 (duffers you’re diabolical).

I included & go over both of these in the following posts:

2 — 🎃 “Día de los Muertos”:

Halloween, pumpkins & “Día de los Muertos” (Day of the Dead): originally a Mexican tradition.

Also Mike’s “best night of the year” (duffers you’re diabolical).

Additionally, the entire “diseased pumpkins” plotline in s2 is a reference to the HIV/AIDS epidemic.

I’m going to link a previous post I made about how this Halloween connection to Chance was officialized in the show:

3 — 🌶️🌮🔥 (Spicy!) Mexican Food:

Tacos, Taco Bell & other Mexican food that they have been referencing throughout the show, but especially in their latest marketing efforts too.

S3 Starcourt Mall: Eleven uses her powers to explode Stacy’s orange 🍊 drink (Chance is also associated to orange, both the fruit & the colour), covering everyone around her in liquid (hmmmmmm…). It just so happens that the boy Stacy was talking to looks A LOT like Chance.

El & Max laugh & run away. “See? What did I tell you? There’s more to life than stupid boys!”. This Max line is also foreshadowing for Will’s s5 arc, where he attempts to “get over” Mike.

Right while she’s saying this, the camera is showing the huge TACO BELL 🌮 sign behind them.

It then immediately pans to a lush green fountain 🌿⛲️ where Will, Mike & Lucas are seated. “Can we play DnD now?”… “No!”. This foreshadows Will waiting & waiting for Mike, while Mike stalls & stalls.

Will is bored, impatient & needy. He looks outwards, in the direction of the Taco Bell 🌮 sign (duffers you’re diabolical).

ST Marketing: in their official accounts, especially @strangerthings.things on Instagram (their merch & promotion account), they have been including SO MANY hints. Many of them relate to tacos, Taco Bell & other Mexican foods.

4 — 🦅 Thunderbird:

Thunderbird totem pole (Native American memorabilia) in Will’s s2 bedroom.

The Thunderbird was also referenced in the “Hawkins’ Horrors” ST book, inside Steve & Robin’s suspicious story about none other than Lovers’ Lake.

There’s also tons of associations with birds of prey in ST: Hawkins, “Squawk” the s5 radio station, Mike’s consistent associations to hawks & falcons, etc. I talk about this in the following reblog (check the whole thread if you can):

Let’s not forget the association of the Thunderbird to the concepts of thunder, storms, weather, lightning, electricity ⛈️⚡️🌀🌪️🌨️ that are so prevalent in Stranger Things (neural connections, synapses, emotions, attraction 🧠🫀).

Is this Thunderbird foreshadowing a… stormy relationship?

5 — 🦇 Camazotz:

“Escape from Camazotz” s5 episode.

Camazotz being a Mayan deity. The Mayan civilization having been located in Central America, including what is now Mexico.

“A bat spirit at the service of the lords of the underworld. In Mesoamerica generally, the bat is often associated with night, death, and sacrifice.” (Wikipedia).

Underworld = gay community in the 1980s = hidden sexual practices

I talk about these themes (sacrifice, etc. = loss of virginity) in the following reblog exploring Max’s story in “Hawkins’ Horrors” book & its insane references to them:

Also… Bat 🦇-> baseball bat ⚾️ -> Lonnie -> Will’s CSA trauma.

6 — 🕺🏻 Physical Appearance:

Even though Chance’s actor, Hunter Romanillos, is listed as being of Philippino descent, his surname is Hispanic & his appearance matches a Latino guy extremely well.

He was probably chosen & cast meticulously for this specific effect.

Check this post for reference (I included many pictures of him):

7 — 🎶 Should I Stay Or Should I Go:

What language is spoken in Mexico?

[Intro]

Oh! Hola!

[Verse 1]

Darling, you got to let me know

Should I stay, or should I go?

If you say that you are mine

I'll be here till the end of time

So you got to let me know

Should I stay, or should I go?

[Verse 2]

It's always tease, tease, tease

You're happy when I'm on my knees

One day it's fine, and next it's black

So if you want me off your back

Well, come on and let me know

Should I stay, or should I go?

[Chorus]

Should I stay, or should I go now?

Should I stay, or should I go now?

If I go, there will be trouble

And if I stay, it will be double

So come on and let me know

[Verse 3]

This indecision's bugging me (Esta indecisión me molesta)

If you don't want me, set me free (Si no me quieres, librarme)

Exactly whom I'm supposed to be (Dígame que tengo ser)

Don't you know which clothes even fit me? (Sabes que ropa me "quedrá"?)

Come on and let me know (Me tienes que decir)

Should I cool it, or should I blow? (Me debo ir o quedarme?)

Split

[Bridge]

(Doble! ¿Me frio o lo soplo?)

(Esperda, rrattarrattattaa...)

[Chorus]

Should I stay, or should I go now? (Yo me enfrío o lo soplo)

Should I stay, or should I go now? (Yo me enfrío o lo soplo)

If I go, there will be trouble (Si me voy va a haber peligro)

And if I stay, it will be double (Si me quedo sera el doble)

So ya gotta let me know (Me tienes que decir)

Should I cool it, or should I blow? (Tengo frío por los ojos)

Should I stay, or should I go now? (Tengo frío por los ojos)

If I go, there will be trouble (Si me voy va haber peligro)

And if I stay, it will be double (Si me quedo será el doble)

So ya gotta let me know (Me tienes que decir)

Should I stay, or should I go?

⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️

Mike: “My girlfriend saved the world twice!”

Dustin: “Yet, you still got a C in Spanish…”.

[…to be continued…]

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. 🧸🤗

⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️

Tagging: @ven0moir @bylerlipglances @greenfiend & everyone can tag more ppl if you want!

🗝⸮₎₎⁾⁾⸝⁺⋆｡ﾟ⋆⸜﹒⋯﹒

To see more of my Bychance posts, click here -> BYCHANCE MASTERPOST.

[lunar-years]

My Stranger Things s5 wishlist:

Revival of the Stonathan fandom now that all the popular male characters people ship with Steve are dead (rip to them ig but Jonathan’s built different)

Jonathan contributes music suggestions to Robin’s radio show. Jonathan and Robin friendship arc + passionate music debates PLEASE!!!

NONE of the Byers perish because, well, I think that would be dumb as hell!

Hopper and El also do not perish because killing hopper again after the fakeout + the horrible Russian plot they forced us all to endure to get him back is just silly and would piss me off. Also, El is so final girl she’s safe because I say so!

Jonathan & Joyce long overdue Heart to Heart

Will coming out to the party and everyone is super supportive and they all love him so much <3 more party friendship stuff in general tbh but especially that scene

Assuming a jancy breakup at the beginning of the season is somewhat inevitable, I demand LOTS of pining for one another while everyone else is absolutely over it and rolling their eyes because will you two PLEASE stop being IDIOTS and just GET BACK TOGETHER ALREADY!

Jonathan goes to NYU god dammit!

+jonathan taking pictures again as part of him finally coming into and choosing himself 🙏

Nancy serving LOOKS™️ (duh. guaranteed. already loving what I’m seeing in this regard. she slays.)

Argyle mention with the implication that him and Jonathan are still good friends and in contact, because I think it’s dumb that they wrote him out like that

Joyce is main plot relevant again (let us pray)

Steve finally gets over Nancy because that plot is so boring and tired I’m sorry. I simply don’t see how either one of those two would still be hung up on the other one! They already got over that 2+ seasons ago!! Nancy does not want to have Steve’s six dream babies!! Cmon now.

No cringey Eddie flashbacks or otherwise random Eddie reappearances (sorry Eddie stans. Again, rip to him. But he is dead and should stay that way.)

Alive Max (duh). Lumax cutesy movie date. Lumax endgame (duh).

Not to be too greedy but…Jonathan & Hopper scenes…Jonathan & Hopper scenes…🕯️

Jancy matching scars brought up yet again because soulmatism!!

Wheeler siblings scenes with all three of them

Will has powers 🤞

It would be cool if they let Nancy talk about and process her trauma and reckon with how wielding her guns is a way to protect herself from the crushing mental weight of her own guilt and vulnerability and not just like, a !cool girlboss with a gun! thing. They won’t do that probably but I can dream.

[immortellesjouissances]

My Stranger Things Season 5 Predictions

Alright, I’m usually quiet on Tumblr, but I’ve been deep in a rewatch lately (because my brain is stuck in Hawkins and refuses to leave since the teaser) and I have been silently watching you all and leaks and interviews… I have thoughts so buckle up!! (Btw, I am French, excuse my mistakes…)

Possible Major Deaths

Let’s start with the pain (sorry) :

- Steve: I hate this one, but I can see it coming. His arc feels complete, and the writers love a tragic hero. If he dies, it’ll be for someone else. Dustin? Nancy? The whole group? But I hate the thought of Dustin losing him after Eddie. Please no.

- Eleven: A self-sacrifice trope wouldn’t surprise me… It’d be cliché, but narratively neat. However… Hopper losing his daughter again? I would not stand it, jeez.

- Will: It began with him. Could it end with him? I really hope not — the queer kid dying after years of suffering and trauma? That would be devastating (and tone-deaf). Plus, Joyce and Jonathan losing AGAIN? Nah.

- Dustin: He has no love interest and tons of emotional value for viewers. A prime target, unfortunately. (Sorry Dustin, I don’t make the rules.)

Any of these deaths would BREAK me, but I think they’re among the most narratively “logical”.

Max’s Role

Max isn’t dying. Her surviving the end of S4 just to die in S5 would be so cheap and lazy.

I think she’ll help El via their psychic connection. Her arc isn’t over. She’ll wake up by the end of the season and probably be key to the final fight. (Well, let’s hope.)

Mileven Breakup

Let’s be real: this has been coming for a while.

I actively enjoyed this paring at first. They were cute in S1–S2, but by S3–S4 the writers clearly began pulling them apart. The love confession in S4? Still gives me secondhand embarrassment.

Also: according to leaks, Mike and El barely have scenes together in S5. Weird choice for the supposed “main couple” if they’re endgame, no??? Would be weird.

Byler Rising

Now this… I’m excited for. There’s so much left to unpack!!

- The painting lie

- Will’s hidden feelings

- Mike’s possible realization

- Their childhood flashbacks (according to leaks)

- That tension!!

The acting is going to be TOP TIER. These two are going to SERVE.

How I think it will unfold:

Mike and Will are closer than ever at the start of S5. Things with El are awkward, maybe post-breakup.

Mike learns the truth about the painting, doesn’t confront Will directly but starts observing him, questioning things, how he feels, what Will really means to him.

Eventually, he realizes his own feelings. He’s the one to initiate a kiss — maybe to test his feelings, or to reassure Will, maybe after he finally confronts Will about the painting ? But Will thinks it’s just a moment of pity or confusion. And….I don’t have more, lol.

Cue ambiguity!!!, angst!!!!, tension!!! Lovers Lake! Second kiss ? Maybe a quiet, intimate scene — something raw and tender ? (Ok, that’s wishful thinking…) Let’s just hope…

Kali’s Return

Yes, I believe she’s coming back!! I saw some people talk about it, and I completely agree.

They’ll need all the help they can get, and she plays into the theme of found family. Plus, El needs closure with her “sister”. Love is going to save the world, remember? Hehe

Stancy’s Bittersweet Comeback

I think Stancy is being set up for a last emotional arc — not as a long-term couple, but as closure.

If Steve dies, Nancy being there will make it even more tragic and personal. They’ll kiss. But I don’t think they’ll end up together. (I actually don’t know if I prefer Stancy or Jancy so either way, I am fucked.)

Jopper & Byers Family

FINALLY. We’re going to see Hopper and Joyce as a couple — in a warzone maybe, but still.

What I’m really looking forward to is the family dynamic!!! Hopper and El; Joyce and Will; Hopper and Will (!!)

Eleven’s True Power

This season will focus on El learning to love herself — not through romantic love, but through friendships and FAMILY.

She’ll have strong moments with Max, Hopper, and maybe even Will. I expect badass fights with her dad, I am SEATED.

Jonathan’s Comeback

I miss him. He was strong and weird and brave in S1–S2.

Then S3–S4 turned him into a background character. I want a Jonathan comeback. He deserves a hero moment. Maybe something related to Will? I am waitinggggg

Love Triangles & Miscommunication

Oh boy. We’re in for a ride:

- Byler / Mileven: the painting, El’s realization, Mike caught between truth and guilt.

- Stancy / Jancy: unresolved tension.

- Robin / Vickie: low-key but sweet.

Exciting times ahead!

Intimate Scenes Predictions

- Jopper: It’s time!!!! Let them have a soft moment!

- Stancy: Maybe a kiss, for closure? Not sure but I can see it happening.

- Byler: One kiss is inevitable (Lovers Lake? Mike saving Will from drowning?), but I want more. A second, more intentional moment. (A GOOD KISS) Give us the tenderness queer love we deserve (and that Will deserves.)

- Robin & Vickie: Definitely a kiss.

El Learning About Will’s Feelings

I cannot wait to see how she reacts bc I have no clue about how she is going to react? Confused? Angry? Hurt? Supportive? The emotional fallout could be huge — or surprisingly quiet and meaningful. Pleeeease I want it now

Open Ending?

If Mike, Will, and El all survive… I’m betting on a slightly ambiguous ending. Some closure, but room for interpretation.

+ Bonus: Mike had a crush on Eddie.

You can’t convince me otherwise. The way Mike looked at Eddie? Not straight-coded. (Maybe it was admiration but…let a girl dream.)

That’s it for now, I will return in my cave with my fellow other quiet supporters.

[lukiaxx]

List of byler-gates

I’m just bored, but read it anyways, it’s fun

there sooo many of them, and i’m still pretty lazy so this isn’t perfect, but just let’s start

Mikhailgate

This is practically anti byler theory, but nvm

So, Dimitri has a son named Mikhail, which is russian version of name Michael, Mike

So, people were just saying that instead of Mike, Will will end up with Mikhail(who’s technically Mike bc of the name, yk)

I think everyone was just joking, oh, good ol’ times

and willloveinterestgate is the same

Lettergate/Pocketgate

These theories aren’t the same one, but it’s basically the same concept, ig

The basic thing is, that Mike wrote a letter to Will(singed Love, Mike)

In pocketgate, Mike has the letter saved in his triangle pocket, bc in st, characters many times has letters, that were important to them, in their left pocket(above the heart), for example Hopper and El(Hopper’s heart-to-heart), Jonathan(acceptance letter to college) etc.

And he would just take it out in the middle of confession or sth

+the triangle always points to Will like an arrow

Lettergate is just basically the same, ok, idk how to describe it differently 

Twelvegate

Not exactly a byler, but theory, that Will was number twelve in HNL, and that he’s El’s actual twin

And from that, there’s theory that Will has powers, but wasn’t n. 012

Okay, back to byler

This is same as rainbowgate i think

Flickergate

This theory is very lovely! after Will tells Mike that rolled seven in s1, the light behind them flickers

and since ud is frozen on nov6 83, when you signal sth from ud, it should appear at nov6 83-s1

this connects to electricgate(i dunno if sth like this exist, but just keep reading), the electricity~are friends electric~will possibly having electric powers

so mike and will could go together in s5 to ud on a mission or sth, and kiss in wheelers garage, and that would make the light flicker(i’m so good at explaining things, right😐)

will and mike going to ud together is predicted by mike and will sitting on upside down couch in last ep. of s4

Birthdaygate/Memorygate

Soo, remember how they forgot Will’s birthday? what if all wills memories, that people reminded him of in the shed are gone? his birthday, building castle byers, meeting mike… and that’s why mike says that his life started the day he found her, bc he doesn’t remember meeting Will

for me, it’s really weird, they couldn’t just forget Will’s birthday, no, this ain’t it

Kiss at lovers lake

I’m not sure if this has a different name, but it’s that their first kiss will be near lovers lake

evidence: patrick(the kid who died at lovers lake), had a nickname “berlin wall” or sth(we saw this in the school newspaper), and it was devided to four, same as hawkins

and song heroes is abt couple who lived at different sides of berlin wall, and idk, it just connects, okay?

when will painted the map of hawkins while he was possessed, mike was holding blue and yellow meter

Eightfifteengate

Context: will left the wheelers at 8:15 in s1

in s1e1, time mark 8:15 is literally the shot where will disappears in the shead

i think there’s a season 2 soundtrack called eight fifteen

tw: time fuckery: while will was recording on halloween night, the time says 8:04 while he’s recording mike saying “did you agreed with this?”, but when joyce rewatches it, it show 8:15(byler)

“ it’s 8:15, you’re late”

btw, clocks and watches from hiroshima are stuck at 8:15

aaanywaaay, there’s just too much 8:15 things, aaah(this is just a few)

what it has to do with byler?

well, 15-8=….(wait for it)….seven. a byler number. it was a seven!

also, “the first lie”, when murray says this to jancy, the time mark is… guess what, 8:15

there’s this theory with the songs “the first lie” and “the first i love you”, and it just connects 

Motelgate

theory, that after mike’s “love” confession to el, they went to a motel for sleep, and mike and will had to share a bed, and we could possibly see flashbacks of it in s5, and it would kinda explain the two day skip

Colorgate

blue and yellow meet in the west, i’m sure you know this one, and there’s sooo many evidence in this

mattduffersbasementgate

It’s too late for this to be true, but the duffers are(/were) holding every cast member that ships byler in their basement, lol

bloopergate

Bloopers from byler scenes, basically, for example “not when i was the spy, oh fuck”, basically Finn and Noah being all giggly, i guess

bloopergate implies to every blooper, but why not to mention it

curtaingate

Sth like, that when there’s some fight happening between characters, if curtains are open, it means they’re open with their feeling and opposite 

Example: milkvan make out scene-closed, but you don’t love me fight-opened

Bonus: „ but they like the curtain. people like us are just trying to look behind the curtain”(my very bad quotation of murray, yk what i mean)

Also, Suzie had blue and yellow curtains, and they were opened

And, “and i love her and i can’t lose her again”? Also curtains closed, like wtf, this fandom is crazy

piggybackgate

El knows abt Mike and Will. she saw how they act around each other, she’ve heard will saying “you’re the heart” to mike, saw that mike has Will’s painting now

New Coke Theory

basically, old coca colla is mileven, new coke is byler. it contains some of the old ingredients(mike), and new ones too(will). not everyone likes(bc its gay ship). and when you look at scenes with can of new coke, it’s many times symbolizing byler vs. milkvan

one of my favorite new coke theory examples is this: in s3, after el gets attacked by the flesh monster, she tries to crash a can(but she doesn’t have her powers, so she can’t). this is a can of new coke(byler) and she can’t crush that/destroy it. and in this scene, we get a flashback to the lab, where she crushes aka destroys regular coke(mileven)

phonegate

mike and will not calling each other, bc of joyce’s telemarketer job(he won’t stop whining abt it)

————

i miss all these little silly theories abt literally everything

i hope the byler tag will be like this once again

maybe we could start naming our new theories “gate”s again

for example: heartfeltgat, strangerwritersgate, snowkissgate or sth

anyway, byee

[castlebyersafterdark]

https://www.tumblr.com/share-the-damn-bed/783552546076786688?source=share

this is so lovely and interesting, and i actually really like that they kept the byers separate from el a little during this reunion. el's part in that family is really complex, and i like that they acknowledged its all in progress and up in the air. there are people who act like she's one of them 100% now because will said theyre her brothers, but let's look more closely at the reality of how that transition would go. the nuance. the fact that (well, unless some crazy reveals happen in s5!) the byers are all blood relatives and el is adopted in. then the fact that this was just temporary since hop left. then the fact that hop and joyce are coming together, but they'll most likely sacrifice that, if necessary, for the sake of their kids (hopper going off with el in s5, for example). then the fact that ofc will and jon would say she's their sister at the police station, because they were trying to sway the lady. officially, she's step sister at best, but that wouldn't have been as powerful a thing to say. on the surface they behave like she's totally one of them, but deeper down, we have more nuance: will ofc won't be able to connect with her purely because of how he feels about mike.

it's just such a complex storyline and i really love how the camerawork shows this. like in this shot above where joyce hugs her sons and el watches on from where she is with hopper. she then hugs joyce after, on her own, mother daughter, not pulled into a big family hug with her brothers, and not with hopper, too. they're showing the complexity of this family, and i think s5 could throw it into a really interesting contrast with how the wheeler family values and dynamics are portrayed. it's not as simple as ThE hOppEr-ByErs fAmiLY yayyyyy! :D because this is an intricate situation with lots of resentment and displacement bubbling underneath. and additionally i really think people who think it's going to be a happily ever after where they all live together sweetly, and therefore will could never be with mike because imagine how weird it would be for will to bring his sister's ex boyfriend home! have TOTALLY misunderstood the undertones (overtones?!) they've been going for with this show.

i feel like a big 'bitter' part of the bittersweet ending is going to be that this family are going to split up - not in a death way, but in a sense that they need to follow their own paths. joyce fought tooth and nail to get her boy back, but the ending of their arc isn't going to be them all just back home together. that was the ending of s1, when will was a child. i think the end is going to be that theyre truly safe, and happy, but now joyce needs to let her boys fly. will is going to leave hawkins. he has to. and i don't feel like s5 is going to prioritise will's bond with el over his bond with mike, because what is more relevant to will's sexuality core theme? and what is more appropriate for el's arc? the idea of this family is sweet but we've already seen them happy-ish together too, in lenora. they had time together.

i think the characters need to end the show in completely new situations they've not been in before. it just makes so much sense for will to leave hawkins, and mike to find the courage to leave too, hopefully together. i'll be really surprised if this doesn't happen, though i don't expect mike to figure it out until right at the end, after graduation. those pics of him and hopper crying at the memorial bench? sure, could be grieving, but considering its a few years after the battle, i think it's more clever that he'd be grieving something else, not just people he loves, but himself. the life he could have, safe and easy in hawkins, or the life that would be true to himself, leaving home with the boy he loves.

queer mike wheeler, crying in broad daylight in the small town square because he's terrified of being who he is. sheer perfection.

LINK | The Byers family is sooooo complicated and it's a disservice how much they get watered down, especially the Eleven factor of it all. How they're not this completely happy, functioning little family. How awkward that must be having her all the sudden there. How big of a change, how much it must have completely sucked for Will and Jonathan - and they're kind boys, will do the selfless thing - but there's gotta be resentment. Leaving their home, where they grew up. It's not going to be some happy go lucky, ride or die sibling besties situation. It's making the best of a bad situation, and being caring and putting on a brave face through dysfunction, because that's what the Byers do.

And isn't that more interesting?? I think it's quite boring if Will and Eleven end up being actual twins. That's kind of odd. I can see why people love those theories, the Luke-Leia of it all, but they can be connected some other way, without that. It either questions what was all that time we spent with Jane's mother and then it questions Joyce. Did Joyce have one of her twin children stolen? Or is Joyce not Will's mother? (unacceptable. few theories make me madder than Joyce being insinuated as not being Will's mother. Why do this???)

"imagine how weird it would be for will to bring his sister's ex boyfriend home!" - I HATE THIS!!! It completely downplays Will and Mike's lifelong friendship into nothing in favor of this situation. Mike is not Will's sister's ex boyfriend to him - that's Mike. That's his best friend. Why would that override anything??? Listen to the language in the roller rink fight, the heart to heart back at the Byers' house - "yeah, but we were BEST FRIENDS" "friends... best friends" .... this above everything. I'm not sure why people put her above everything. It's ok to recognize reality.

So, yes. It's good that we got a separate moment. It's not unkindness - it's reality. And also the reality... the bittersweetness of breaking them up. There's something not cookie-cutter about the character's happily ever after - no. It's not a fairy tale. It's ever-after, but after the traumatic events they all live through... it's survival, for those who do.

I would be so surprised as well if Will and Mike don't leave Hawkins together. It seems to be the whole core of them and who they are and what they mean for each other. Who else gets it? Crazy together. Inevitable.

queer mike wheeler, crying in broad daylight in the small town square because he's terrified of being who he is. sheer perfection.

Yes indeed ❤️

[offsidetracked]

Don't worry @ven0moir you're not alone in the trenches, we're going crazy together in real time 💀

I have to admit that BYCHANCE felt mostly like a fun crack ship at first. Why not you know, he's attractive, Will deserves some fun, I like drama, let's go.

But the more I twist and turn it around the more it feels like an actually... good and not at all farfetched subplot. Huh. Whaddaya know. Well, let's get into it.

For me it comes down to mainly one thing;

A bychance storyline would serve Will and Mike's individual character arcs and help pave the way for byler.

@ven0moir has already made a great point about how Will having some prior experience would give him more agency when byler eventually happens.

And Mike is long overdue for a rude awakening: his undisputed spot as Will's most important person will not go uncontested forever. One way or another, the show has to address how uncomfortable this realisation will make him. And force him to confront what that means for the nature of their relationship.

Bychance is a simple and effective way to accomplish exactly that. And honestly, if Mike is going to be a jealous confused mess in S5 (it's for your own good Michael), give him something to be actually jealous about.

So far the show has given us mainly one flavor of internalized homophobia. Mike hides, he plays pretend at heterosexuality with a beard girlfriend that he, although he likes and cares for her, isn't attracted to.

Bychance would be a juxtaposition to Mike's coping mechanisms by having Will go the complete opposite route.

Will already believes he has no chance at a healthy, mutual, romantic connection. So why not engage in a toxic situationship with someone he doesn't like or trust but is sexually attracted to? The world is ending anyway. Might as well.

It wouldn't be strange at all.

Will has been valiantly holding out so far; being happy for whatever kind of intimacy he can have with Mike. There's been cracks in that facade however. The rain fight, destroying Castle Byers, the argument at rink-o-mania... all point to the fact that Will, for all his valor and selfless behaviour, actually holds a great deal of frustration, maybe even resentment, because of the situation.

Would it really be so weird for him to act out and seek some sort of relief, if the opportunity presented itself?

We already know that temptation will most likely play a part in Will's arc this season. Vecna could very well be involved in manipulating a bychance situation. Separating Will from his support system would make him vulnerable and potentially more receptive to Vecna whispering promises in his ear later on. What better way than to lure Will away with a twisted version of what he actually wants? Juicy🧃

Throwing a wench in Mike and Will's relationship is also crucial if Vecna wants his plan to succeed. Those two have proven to be absolutely lethal when they join forces. Bychance could be a way to make Mike feel like Will has gone to a place he can't follow. At least not until he confronts the less than platonic feelings he has for his best friend.

Anyway, what it comes down to is Mike and Will showcasing two diametrically opposed but equally toxic coping mechanisms. Both being consequences of internalizing the belief that this is as good as it's going to get. Ugh my heart 💔

Bychance could, if played right, help deliver a really powerful message about the more insidious consequences of homophobia and what a hateful, intolerant society truly does to a person. Underlining one of the core lessons of the show;

When you betray who you are by trying to conform things go wrong.

Forced conformity really is killing the kids.

We're also in the final arc of The Five Arc Story Structure. That means one thing and one thing only; catharsis.

Everything is coming to a boiling point and the lid will blow in a number of ways. Especially when it comes to byler. Things must implode, explode, for both of them. Only then will they have to stare truth in the face and actually deal with their feelings for each other. And what living a life that is truly their own would mean.

Sure, you could do all this without bychance. But it would be a neat and simple way to do it.

And there are things in the show that could be interpreted as hints towards it (@ven0moir and @cypherheartnokey have made posts about it). Some of it could be reaching, but not more of a reach than some stuff we bylers regularly parade around as evidence for our ship.

This is a show that goes crazy hard with foreshadowing and self-referencing after all so... yeah. You be the judge. Whether it will happen or not is anyone's guess.

But I actually wouldn't be mad if it did.

[v-i-r-i-d-i-a-n]

S5 predictions cus I saw someone else do it

LETTERGATE LETTERGATE LETTERAGTE LETTERAGTE

Dustin or Steve dies, idk man it just feels like if someone is gonna die (because let’s be honest with ourselves there’s NO WAY EVERYONE survives) it would be one of them, and as much as I want Steve to live and be his own person and be happy and blablabla the love triangle their setting up and how he’s obviously NOT over Nancy worries me a bit

WILL BYERS HAS POWERS WILL BYERS HAS POWERS WILL BYERS HAS POWERS!!!

On a more serious note I think the other party members parents are gonna have to be let in on what’s happening, ESPECIALLY with the stuff the Hawkins gang pulled last season, I think that the Wheelers(maybe Mrs Henderson as well) might get a bit more protective/over bearing with their kids, possibly making it harder to plan and do things

Sortve romcom-y but I think Will’s gonna get hit on by girls 🖐️

WILL BYERS WITH A GUN PURRTY PLEASE

Eleven being the one to break up with Mike (or propose the break up) but it being a more mutual thing

Mike not being mad(?) about the painting, but more confused and sad, like “why would you lie to me?” It may come across as anger in Will’s POV but I genuinely believe Mikes more- confused about it

El talking to Max through the void/searching for Max in the void

Max waking up generally earlier in the season

[bylerfields]

the ask you answered about not seeing dominant mike is really interesting! i feel like a lot of people fight against a more dom will bc they assume people took “buff byers” and ran with it, ignoring characterization, but this take on it, will being the same will regardless of his looks and it fitting mike who’s just more gentle by nature makes so much sense.

thanks anon!!! waaah i’m glad someone else sees it like that, i feel on an island most of the time

the hc that mike goes back to being his gentle s1-2 self once he has nothing to be so wound up about might be the closest one to my heart, it’s really important to me! people always talk about going back and watching will in the show in defense against buff byers and pointing out how he’s just as soft, which i agree with obviously. he didn’t change in s4 because of his looks.

the way i look at it isn’t that will suddenly rose up to mike’s level and made them both balanced masc dudes in s4 - it’s that they started out on the same level and mike has gone out of his way to rise up past will, and he’ll eventually come back down when he settles into his identity. idk if that makes sense.

kinda sidenote mike character study but this is also why it’s funny to me how his brattiest most bottomy moments are showcased during s3, because it’s also the season where he’s conforming the most. the dichotomy is fun to watch, and while i don’t think this dynamic stays put when he grows up, it says a lot about mike i think. the whole “will isn’t a good partner for mike then if you think he’s characterized like that” claim is interesting to me bc its

1) so limiting and (dare i say) so sex focused, like you think they wouldn’t be able to figure it out at all if they wanted different things in bed? 10+ years of close friendship? will’s head over heels for mike. not the idea he has of him (even the painting even the knight stuff etc etc etc - i think he’s right about mike and the show is obv telling us this. my point is that, it’s a s5 plot point. it’s not informing every aspect of their dynamic like most assume). and again, i simply have trouble believing will’s desires would be so concrete when this is mike, it’s not a fantasy it’s his best friend who’s also gay and comes with his own baggage. which leads me to point two

2) it’s ignorant of any potential depth mike has. there’s the argument that will’s needs and traits are ignored when people write a more subby mike. i think more often than not, mike’s areas of depth, esp areas where he wouldn’t be as compatible to will, are cherry picked out. and i don’t think this is too far fetched to think because of how many have said they see him as just a love interest for their favorite character. there are for sure aspects of mike wiiiiidely accepted that are fanon and people don’t even realize bc it just fits will so perfectly. and tbh! fanon is fun au’s are fun so idc! but let’s call it what it is i guess and not be the canon validity police for other things.

i’m also incredibly bored of the idea that “leader” is a masculine role.

tldr; will’s more dominant side doesn’t require him to become more aggressive than he is to power over mike, bc a mike who’s accepted himself, settled, regulated, and with will doesn’t need his power taken away. he’s just chilling 💞

thanks for the ask sooo sorry for the essay answer <3

[cypherheartnokey]

IF byler's endgame, chances are some of their storyline ( and Will's arc ) won't be satisfying to some of them […] bc from everything they've said so far they ARE departing from this 'hopeless, martyr Will who suffers in silence and waits for Mike' vision that the fandom expects for him […]. One thing I think Milevens are right about, that Bylers refuse to accept is that Will let go of his idea of being with Mike romantically in that van, and any hope he had left after that faded when Mike gave that speech to El and essentially locked them in as endgame in HIS eyes lmao […].

and I personally would rather not have byler endgame than them literally removing the power of CHOICE from the character named Will ( power of CHOICE/Free Will/Will power ) in the season that is his coming of age and that has centered his sexuality and feelings for Mike so much. That sounds like a genuine snooze fest. like GIVE ME THE SUPERNATURAL AS A REFLECTION OF HOW THEY START OFF S5. GIVE ME FULL ON QUEER HORROR

"Leave the station, Nina. Don't keep waiting for a lover that won't return." [...] Will's being set up to go batshit unhinged and reckless and careless and fucking up as he figures himself out [...].

— @ven0moir

SPEAK ON IT.

Some people need to realize that Byler’s s5 arc will mirror Mileven’s s4 arc, but with the CRUCIAL difference that Mileven is platonic while Byler is romantic.

.

“I LOVE YOU”

-> s4 Mike being unable to say ILY to Eleven (because of not loving her).

-> s5 Mike being unable to say ILY to Will (because of internalized homophobia).

.

LYING

-> s4 El lying to Mike (about having a bully).

-> s5 Will lying to Mike (about….. something??? 👀👀).

.

HUMILIATION + INSANITY

-> s4 El being publicly humiliated & going insane after (Rink-o-Mania).

-> s5 Will being publicly humiliated & going insane after (we don’t exactly know where or how, but I’m highly suspecting that this is the moment Mike clocks Bychance).

.

FALLING OUT

-> s4 Mike being shocked & crashing out at Eleven. El accuses him of seeing her as a “monster” & not loving her. El: “You don’t love me anymore?” while clocking his multiple letters saying “from Mike”, prodding into Mike’s sexuality-related insecurity. Mike loses his mind, deflects + gaslights her.

-> s5 Mike being shocked & crashing out at Will. Will accuses Mike of seeing him as a “monster” & of being jealous. Mike thinking: “You don’t love me anymore?” while clocking Will’s multiple letters from his “secret admirer” that Mike now knows is Chance, the party’s jock rival. Mutually prodding into one another’s deepest insecurities, Mike & Will both lose their minds, deflect + gaslight each other.

I predict this is going to be THE Byler argument. And if the foreshadowing is anything to go by, it’s NOT going to be pretty… like, at all.

The "monster" thing also reminded me of your monster coding post @ven0moir!

.

INDEPENDENCE

-> s4 El feeling disappointed with Mike, “breaking up” with him & going on her independence journey (to Nina).

-> s5 Will feeling disappointed with Mike, “breaking up” with him & going on his independence journey (to another lifestyle / “love interest” aka Chance).

(Their villain origin story to the “dark side” lmfaoo. Also foreshadowed by the s3 Byler fight + Will running away to destroy Castle Byers, aka his innocence / childhood memories with Mike, in an act of hurt, desperation, spite & self-harm.)

.

ABUSE

-> s4 El’s independence journey being kind of a “red herring” & having borderline manipulative/abusive/unconsensual undertones (Dr Owens + Brenner + Henry/001).

-> s5 Will’s independence journey being kind of a “red herring” & having borderline manipulative/abusive/unconsensual undertones (Chance + … something/someone else??? My supernatural guess: Henry/Vecna + Owens again. My real-world guess: Lonnie + some kind of illegal vice business).

(Dr Owens delivering morally ambiguous Chance foreshadowing.)

.

TEAMWORK

-> s4 Mike + Jonathan + Will + Argyle helping rescue El from the abuse even though she managed to do most of it herself first (healthy independence + teamwork).

-> s5 Mike + Jonathan + El (+ Chance???) helping rescue Will from the abuse even though he manages to do most of it himself first (healthy independence + teamwork).

(Argyle delivering redemption arc Chance foreshadowing.)

.

BALANCED GROWTH

-> s4 Elmax saving eachother (piggyback + pizza + weed + The Bridge + Snowball + restarting the heart).

-> s5 Byler reconciling/integrating their childhood innocence, traumatic defense / gate-keeping mechanisms (symbolized by El) WITH their hopeful, brave, risk-taking, adventurous, progressive, unapologetic side (symbolized by Max). Balanced growth. This probably means that Byler finally get together in a “real” + honest way, even if still hurting with wounds (Max in a coma) that will eventually heal.

.

From here on though, I’m not sure about what could happen. They may:

1 -> stay officially together & survive, living “happily ever after” (what we all want);

2 -> stay officially together, but one of them / both die (tragic Shakespearean ending);

3 -> realize they truly love each other but actually end up going their separate ways, probably because of differences or incompatibility in personality / lifestyle / life goals (the ending I think Jancy is also getting);

4 -> the exact same as option 3, but with a possibility / hint / promise of getting back together sometime in the future (after figuring themselves out on their own).

.

EDIT:

I do think the Duffers include foreshadowing for A LOT of stuff.

But other than that, I totally agree. These are just theories that we make for fun, & things can either go a bit like we predicted OR in completely different ways.

It’s totally okay to feel sad & disappointed, but at the end of the day this is just fictional media. Despite media being obviously important on societal levels, people need to take care of their own well-being first. That includes working on & finding joy in multiple things in their real life, not just fandom.

Definitely not healthy, at all, to intensely emotionally crash out on a personal level over other people’s theories, or the final outcome of the real tv show.

hey how do u feel abt noah saying that people should not get their hopes up for season 5 of stranger things? he didn’t specifically say anything abt it being byler related but idk - a lot of fans think of byler when they think of will and so im worried he was trying to like subtlety tell byler shippers to not get their hopes up

hi anon!

yes, i agree he was talking about bylers in that sentence--but I think in broad strokes. the most beloved byler theories ( flickergate, loverslake, wallgate, heroesgate, ud kiss, etc ) do not fit with the tone of the show, so they're very beloved, but noah himself once said that the fans are very creative ... yet wrong about everything.

that's why I do not even attempt to make "theories" about how Byler's kiss will happen or entertain that idea, its just wasted creativity bc they don't WANT you to know. Prediction theories will likely be wrong unless the Duffers WANT you to piece them together ( like how they said that they left enough clues IN VOLUME 2 for someone to piece together why the UD is frozen the day Will went missing. They wouldn't have said that IMO if they didn't want to encourage fans to figure it out. Otherwise it's sort of wasting your fan's time for no good reason ..? )

IF byler's endgame, chances are some of their storyline ( and Will's arc ) won't be satisfying to some of them ( *cough cough* I think you might know exactly what I'm talking about ) bc from everything they've said so far they ARE departing from this 'hopeless, martyr Will who suffers in silence and waits for Mike' vision that the fandom expects for him when it comes to his feelings for Mike. ( I have a friend who believes the 'choice' is mike's and mike's alone and Will is important but in his love life, he gets 0 say like let's be so fr here for a second. One thing I think Milevens are right about, that Bylers refuse to accept is that Will let go of his idea of being with Mike romantically in that van, and any hope he had left after that faded when Mike gave that speech to El and essentially locked them in as endgame in HIS eyes lmao )

and I personally would rather not have byler endgame than them literally removing the power of CHOICE from the character named Will ( power of CHOICE/Free Will/Will power ) in the season that is his coming of age and that has centered his sexuality and feelings for Mike so much.

That sounds like a genuine snooze fest

like GIVE ME THE SUPERNATURAL AS A REFLECTION OF HOW THEY START OFF S5. GIVE ME FULL ON QUEER HORROR

BUT I'LL BE RIDING THAT WAVE BABY I JUST KNOW I WILL PERSONALLY LOVE IT AND BE CHEERING WILL AND THE DUFFERS ON FOR THAT

I'm pretty sure some of this expectation of 'martyr Will' comes from some confusion over S4 El's arc being projected onto him, ( and that's totally fine! honestly I'm still understanding stuff myself but damn some people around here need to touch grass ) but that's why the most common version of Byler endgame that Byler fans are expecting/hoping for ( and the GA doesn't buy, mind you ) is basically a rewritten version of S4 Mileven.

"Leave the station, Nina. Don't keep waiting for a lover that won't return."

She also resisted Henry's influence and tried to reach him despite everything he's done--much like how she reached Billy in S3. She's been coded as an angel, a Jesus figure, El literally means God, etc. SHE'S MY DAUGHTER I LOVE HER SM I'm scared for her ending the most omfg

I have the awful feeling she'll experience a metaphorical death ( like, staying in the UD and transforming it as the gatekeeper I SO HOPE IM WRONG PLEASE I HOPE THIS IS DUE TO MY LACK OF UNDERSTANDING STILL and not bc they will really do that to her hhh )

Will? imo Will's being set up to go batshit unhinged and reckless and careless and fucking up as he figures himself out and tbh so far, everything they've said falls in line nicely with what I was HOPING for.

thank GOODNESS

And whereas I do not believe for ONE second the Duffers are perfect ( thank god, perfection is so boring and artificial ) I AM choosing to trust they're choosing to be brave and genuinely love their show. The fact people on both sides will be pissed/triggered due to some of their writing choices I think will just be an unfortunate consequence. Sometimes we forget these guys are not rocket scientists and at the end of the day, they're DnD nerds who love their play. If you're not having fun analyzing, chances are you're not approaching it the right way since both DnD and the show are about community and connection. It's inherently what makes them both fun.

I already went through my "acceptance arc" where I internalized that I do not write this show and have 0 say in its outcome. I definitely recommend others do the same and be prepared for whatever happens bc we've put a lot of emotional investment into the show, and that's okay, we're in this together, but we gotta make sure we're prioritizing our mental well-being and I do worry about some Bylers in the tag ( I have been for a few years ... especially after the reactions I saw during that Bychance / Byler "Civil War" .... yikes )

but yeah let me know if any of this makes sense / share your thoughts!!! they'd be cool to know <3