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love-byers · 4 months ago

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Hi! Not gonna lie I was a bit disappointed that you believe the birthday gate stuff... The Duffers wouldn't have admitted to have made a mistake if that were the case. And most of all, it would've come up in volume 2! Now if something happens in S5 it would just feel like they came up with it during the 3 years between S4 and S5. They can say it was planned all they want, people would call bullshit, and rightfully so. I'm sorry I can not believe how anyone can think birthday gate could be a real thing. Not to mention it doesn't even make any sense. Please bylers let's just accept the Duffers made a mistake!!

i disagree with everything you said

1. "the duffers wouldn't have admitted to have made a mistake if that were the case"

they lied.

the duffers are sneaky snakes who want us to analyze and always be looking for little details. they have literally said there are no coincidences in the show.

so yes, i completely believe that they would go out of their way to lie in order to save the surprise for s5. i mean actually think about it, if it really was just a mistake, why would they not just fix it?? they have the full power to just do a little voiceover edit and boom, problem solved. they explained exactly how they'd do it. but they didn't. 2 years have passed and they still haven't changed it when that little tweak would literally solve all their problems if it really was a mistake.

they lied. they're liars.

2. "it would've come up in vol 2"

since when does every single problem have to be solved in one season?? do you know what show you're watching??

there are hints and foreshadowing all over the seasons. vecna is foreshadowed in s1 ep1 when will's door was opened with telekinesis, and we had no idea he existed until 6 years and 3 seasons later.

in s1 they don't fully explain how will was communicating with joyce. but after s4 everything clicks into place.

they show us that will can clearly hear her and is finding a way to make the lights light up. then in ep 8 they show joyce and hopper making the christmas lights light up as they walk through the byers upside down house. jonathan sees this and asks if it's joyce, and joyce hears him.

that isn't addressed AT ALL in s2 or s3. it is fully explained and explored in s4, when nancy steve eddie and robin are stuck in the upside down. they fully show us how it works and acknowledge that it was how will communicated with joyce.

the creators knew exactly how the light upside down stuff worked the entire show. but it wasn't time for it to be explained just yet. it was meant to come up later on. it's a masterful way to write a story with longevity.

stranger things teaches you to never just write something off. everything is important. don't let it go just because it hasn't been fully explained. there will be payoff.

3. "now if it comes up in s5 it would just feel like they came up with it the 3 years between s4 and s5. people would call bullshit."

respectfully i think you're projecting a bit.

the average viewer who does not spend their time on forums is not going to think that whatsoever. the average viewer is going to think "wait what?!", go back and watch s4 ep 2, and think "holy shit it was planned all along that's so cool!"

like that's such a dumb way of thinking. you have to be a master level hater to see a well written plot twist and think "they just did that to cover their asses" like that's some next level hating

and i guarantee you once s5 comes out the duffers will be like "yeah of course we had to lie you guys were too close to figuring it out!"

david harbour has talked about how hard it was for him to flat out lie to people about hopper being dead. it's really not that crazy to think they lied

4. "it doesn't even make any sense"

....it does.

i don't know how you could think it doesn't make sense

rink o mania day was march 22nd. will's birthday. they have not changed his birthday. his official canonical birthday is still march 22nd.

but no one mentions it. even will doesn't seem to know it's his birthday.

s4 is all about memories and trauma and feeling isolated from others. we also literally learn there is a powerful monster man who can read minds and enter other people's memories, just like el can. so i don't see how it's so outlandish to think there's some memory fuckery going on.

of course we can't explain exactly why or how, because it hasn't been adressed yet. you have to wait for the pay off.

5. "just accept the duffers made a mistake"

i would accept that they made a mistake if they actually fixed the mistake LIKE THEY SAID THEY WOULD. they said "we are going to edit the episode and change it to say may 22nd" and then DIDNT. EVER.

and not only that, they wished him happy birthday on march 22nd 2 years in a row. noah schnapp posted a bts photo on march 22nd 2024 with the caption "Do you know what March 22nd is? It's your birthday. - Joyce Byers"

they are saying "yes it's still his birthday so get hyped for s5 where it'll be addressed" every way they can without spelling it out for you.

i really don't know what more you need

#stranger things #will byers #st5 #birthdaygate #st5 theory #will byers theory

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redshoes-blues · 5 months ago

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Emotional Time Travel: How Will Byers Controls Time in the Upside Down

"We are all time travellers, if you think about it."

Buckle up, everybody, this is gonna be a long one! :)

Over a year ago I wrote an analysis on the references to clocks throughout Stranger Things, and looked at how this connects to the show's specific form of time travel. This post is a bit of a redo of that original analysis, but this time I'm focusing on the idea that emotions have the power to alter the movement of time. And not only this, but Will Byers specifically has the power to control time in the Upside Down.

From the clock symbolism throughout the show to the time travel references, it’s clear that S5 is going to delve fully into the way the Upside Down operates; more specifically, I suspect we'll finally get answers to the question raised last season—why is the UD stuck on the day Will vanished?

I have some ideas on how that might work, and it has to do with emotions, which are described in ST as a way to time travel, as El says it best herself in the opening of S4: "We are all time travellers, if you think about it."

[CW: this will delve into the various forms of trauma and abuse faced by Vecna's targets in the show]

The Vanishing of Will Byers: Time Travel and Dimension X

First of all, let's deal with the obvious. The Upside Down, aka Dimension X, is a dimension that is stuck in the past. This is tied directly to Will Byers, given that it exists perpetually as the date he vanished. Therefore, entering the Upside Down is a form of interdimensional time travel.

To me, this could work in one of three ways, although a combination of these factors could also be at play here.

First, the UD could be a fixed point in time. A place where time doesn't work. It acts as a set piece, where characters can move around and exist within, but otherwise, it remains the same. In this case, it is quite literally frozen from the moment Will is taken. However, there are some things in the UD that do change. The weather, for example. Or vines that move and grow. So it's really hard to say how the fixedness would work. Perhaps, if this is the case, time is fixed and frozen, even non-existent, but space isn’t.

Second, is the idea that the Upside Down exists as a time loop. How long the loop would be, we don't know for sure. All we know is that the UD is stuck, somehow, on November 6, 1983. Maybe the loop is a single day long. Maybe it goes on for the entire duration of Will being missing. Either way, the time loop is certainly a plausible theory for how time operates in the UD.

Another important thing to consider is S5's use of A Wrinkle in Time as a source for inspiration, which brings me to the third way that time could operate in the Upside Down. Now, it has been awhile since I read AWIT, but there's an important concept in that novel called a tesseract. This is basically a way of travelling through time and space, to a fourth dimension. Looking at ST, this seems like a likely culprit for what's going on with the UD, which would be a sort of fourth dimension in this case. Vecna as much as says the UD is a fourth dimension himself:

"I became an explorer. An explorer of a realm unspoiled by mankind. I saw so many things, and one day, I found the most extraordinary thing of all."

But Vecna isn’t the only one to explicitly refer to the Upside Down as another dimension/realm. The government call it “Dimension X,” and the Party refer to it as the “Shadow Realm” pretty early on, an analogy to D&D’s location of the same name.

Now, I went googling for a description of the Shadow Realm, and I found this one that is very telling: “The Shadow realm is a realm caught between the realms of the living and the dead, a place where the boundaries of time and reality blur.” [link to article]

Looking at the UD, this absolutely makes sense as the location of choice that the Party (aka, the writers) chose to compare it to. As we’ve discussed, time does blur in the UD, and things don’t always happen as they would in Hawkins (there are strange storms, cosmic horror style monsters, etc.). Perhaps, in this realm, time itself doesn't even exist in a way that makes sense to us.

Now, going back to Vecna, we see that this sort of fourth dimension where time doesn’t exist as it should is exactly what he wishes to achieve.

On his motivations, Henry Creel says this: "Seconds. Minutes. Hours. Days. Weeks. Months. Years. Decades. Each life a faded lesser copy of the one before. Wake up. Eat. Work. Sleep. Reproduce. And die."

Clearly, he feels burdened by the limitations of how time functions in the real-world. This is why, he explains, "I became an explorer."

Now, the Upside Down we see him enter is very different from the one that Will is taken to, and the one we see from S1 onwards. There are two people we know that may be responsible for this change in appearance. Either Vecna shaped the world to his liking, or Will did.

Maybe it's a both/and situation. After all, we know Vecna has powers and has been communicating with the Mind Flayer (who seems to be a sort of eldritch/cosmic god/force of the UD) for years. However, it is Will's vanishing that shapes the "time" of the Upside Down.

Will vanished on November 6, 1983, which is the same day that the UD is stuck on. This means that the Upside Down is inexplicably tied to him. Why it's tied to him is hard to say. He's the first kid Vecna kidnapped, and it is very interesting that he didn't just kill Will like he does his other victims: there's something different about Will.

I'll get into that later, but for now, what does this mean for Hawkins, where the UD is beginning to leak out of the gates?

As I mentioned previously, it's clear that one of Vecna's goals is to create a world that is "unburdened" by time's constraints. As the gates open up, we see a clock turning backwards (see: gif above), which may represent how time is slowing down or ceasing to exist the same way it always has.

If we want to get metaphorical about how time functions in Hawkins vs. the Upside Down and Vecna's mind lair, just look at the first sign of someone's Vecna vision, which is represented by a chime of the Creel house clock. For Vecna's targets, time is literally running out. Not only because they're about to die in Hawkins, but because they're about to enter a dimension where the passage of time does not exist.

"We Are All Time Travellers": Emotions Alter Time

Let's back things up a little bit.

Last spring, I was rewatching S4 to look for any references to time travel (turns out there's a lot of them when you go looking for them). It didn't take long for me to get a reference. In fact, there's one in El's opening monologue, as part of her letter to Mike.

"Dear Mike. Today is day 185. Feels more like ten years. Joyce says time is funny like that. Emotions can make it speed up or slow down. We are all time travellers, if you think about it. For example, this week is going very fast because I am so busy..."

In one sense, El's line here is describing how time can literally feel fast or slow depending on how we feel. For example, if we're busy and happy, time often goes by fast, but it we're upset, time can feel slow. Of course, I believe this line also has a deeper meaning that foreshadows what we later learn about the Upside Down being tied to Will’s vanishing.

It's no coincidence that in the season whose villain is represented by clocks, who is tied to a dimension where time is wonky, and who feels burdened by the existence of time, this opening scene mentions time travel directly. It's also important that El says this line. She's the one who opened the gate in the very first scene of the season, after all. She's also the one who goes through the NINA program, which is essentially sending her back into time (through her memories) to access her powers again. Isn’t it interesting that revisiting her traumatic experiences is what restores her powers?

If we take what El says literally, emotions actually have the power to speed up or slow down time, and not just our perception of it, depending on which emotions are felt. This bit about emotions is vital. As we know, the UD is shaped around Will's vanishing, which is a traumatic experience that he continues to deal with for years after it has occurred.

Now, this begs the question: did time in the UD slow down because Will left an emotional imprint on the landscape via his childhood trauma?

Again, it isn't a coincidence that Will's vanishing is the day that the Upside Down is stuck on. The "demogorgon"—which is pretty obviously going to be revealed to be Vecna—took Will into this fourth dimension, traumatizing him in the process.

All of Vecna's victims in the 80s timeline are also victims of trauma and/or abuse in their childhoods. Chrissy and Patrick have an abusive parent, and Fred has trauma from the car accident. Max has mental health issues and a complicated family life that we see in detail—an abusive brother whose death she blames herself for, suicidal ideation, a dad who isn't in the picture, a mom who becomes an alcoholic, and that's not to mention the inherent traumatizing circumstance of living in poverty. Will is also implied to have been abused by Lonnie, who called him homophobic slurs and turned into an awful deadbeat who doesn’t accept that his son doesn’t follow traditional masculine gender norms; he's also bullied at school for being different.

Each of these victims of abuse and/or trauma are all targets by Vecna. They have that in common. And we know that Vecna is targeting these kids on purpose because we see him sifting through his mind lair to select his next candidate. How does he do this? By looking at these kids' experiences and selecting someone vulnerable.

After Patrick is killed, Lucas and Max say as much when they discuss Vecna's motivations. To them, to be hurt us to be haunted:

Lucas: "It's like everyone Vecna targets has something in their life...something that's—"

Max: "Hurting them. Haunting them."

With this in mind, it begins to look as if Vecna is using the trauma and hurt of these kids because their emotions are strong enough to create gates, and therefore to alter—or even slow down—time.

Interestingly, the psionic powers of the lab kids seem to be impacted by their emotions as well.

Dr. Brenner tells the kids in the NINA memory to not use their emotions, but it’s One’s advice to El—to focus on something that makes her angry and sad—that helps her win the battle against Two. Brenner is so angry at One’s interference here that he tortures him for it. We know that Henry Creel was the original kid with telepathic powers who was experimented on. Somehow, Dr. Brenner learned to develop powers in these other kids, but it’s Henry/One who first received his powers from the Mind Flayer. Even as a kid, he understands that channeling negative feelings makes his powers grow stronger.

Before we look at why I believe Will is the only one truly capable of restoring the Upside Down to the way it was before, aka Dimension X, I want to dive a little bit deeper into Vecna’s targets themselves.

The Trauma of Vecna's Targets

There isn't a single main character in this show who isn't traumatized, hurting, haunted, or a victim of various societal pressures and/or forms of oppression. This isn't an accident. These themes are built into the show on purpose. Sometimes they aren't handled as well as they could or should be, but they're certainly present.

When we look at Vecna's victims, the reason they were his "perfect" targets is because of their vulnerability.

Lucas suspected Patrick was dealing with abuse at home, but Patrick never talked about it with anyone. Same with Fred's guilt about the hit-and-run. He's terrified of the idea that he'll be found out, so he never tells anyone about his visions. In the case of Chrissy, her own boyfriend has no idea about what she's going through, and she turns to drugs for an escape from her pain. If Max hadn't confided in her friends about her visions, equipped with her knowledge of Vecna and the Upside Down, then she would have had the same fate as them.

So, not only are Vecna's victims people who have something in their life that is hurting or haunting them (trauma, abuse, mental health issues, etc.), but they are also actively repressing these emotions. With this, I think the writers are trying to say that opening up about what you're going through with other people who care about you is vital to your survival and well-being.

Healing from trauma requires you to confront the emotions and/or experiences many people would rather suppress. I think El is a good case study for this. She is very clearly a traumatized character who is a victim of child abuse. Much of it is stuff she doesn’t actively remember, because she has repressed it, as we see in the NINA project. But despite her repression, the trauma, those memories, are still with her. She believes she's a monster, and she carries this guilt around with her for years. But El is also very resilient.

In fact, she confronts her trauma head-on in the NINA project. She relives her abusive childhood, the bullying she experienced, and the massacre, and she comes out of it a stronger person—even though she doesn't beat Vecna this time around, because she’ll require the help of someone else who is deeply tied to the UD if she wants to beat him.

Looking back at what Henry Creel knew from a young age, that his pain and experiences could be a source of his power, it becomes clear why he’s killing all of these traumatized kids. He’s doing so to harness the power in those experiences, perhaps because their emotions will affect the UD and cause time to slow down.

However, when El talks about emotions as a way to time travel in the beginning of S4, she isn’t just referring to negative emotions like boredom or sadness, etc. She also refers to positive emotions which make time move faster. If Vecna used his targets’ trauma to slow down time—originating with Will’s arrival in the UD—then maybe it is positive emotions, like love, acceptance, and healing, that will undo the changes Vecna has made in the UD.

Will The Wise: Why Will Byers is the Antidote

Will's connections to the UD are my main reason for believing he is the key to defeating Vecna. It began with Will, and it will end with him, too.

This is also supported in the text.

D&D always forms a direct analogy to the events that happen in any given season of Stranger Things, and it's through the lens of D&D that the Party describe the happenings in the Upside Down. For example, Will rolls a 7 in the first episode of the show, and tells Mike that "it [the demogorgon] got me." Later, the creature we're told is a demogorgon does get Will.

So, that's why the D&D campaign run by Eddie in S4 is very interesting, as it serves as foreshadowing for the rest of the season. An 11 is rolled first. This is a miss. It isn't until Erica—who is an unlikely hero in this campaign—rolls a 20 that Vecna is defeated.

It's crazy foreshadowing that an 11 is rolled, which isn't enough to defeat Vecna, in the season where Eleven is not able to defeat Vecna on her own, despite her powers being stronger than they've ever been. That's because power isn't the only thing at play, here. And we don't know yet who will be the Erica in this story, the underdog who will swoop in and join the fight, being the unlikely hero to defeat Vecna, but I think the missing piece will be Will.

It's like Dustin said in reference to his drawing skills (interesting, because when Will drew to solve the puzzle before, it was directly related to his connection to the Upside Down): "we need Will."

This brings me back to the main point of this analysis. If emotions alter time—with traumatic memories causing time to slow down, and causing Vecna to gain power—and if the Upside Down is shaped around Will's trauma, then confronting Will's trauma is crucial to Vecna's defeat.

Everything goes back to Will. To the moment he entered the UD on November 6, 1983. The very day the Upside Down is frozen on is the same day that Will's trauma began. By experiencing his trauma and imprinting those emotions onto the dimension, did Will quite literally grind time to a halt in the UD?

I certainly think so. And we've already seen a little bit of how positive memories can be used to fight against Vecna. Music is shown to carry positive memories and emotions, almost forming a shield around a person, as was the case for Max and Will, who were able to fight back through the power of music. If we take this a step further, it makes sense that healing from his Upside Down trauma, would work as a sort of antidote to Vecna, who feeds off of people's trauma. He only targets people, haunts them, if they are hurting. Heal the hurt, and he has no use for you any longer.

Functionally, this could work a number of ways. I think it could work by Will re-entering the UD and bringing positive emotions with him. Maybe the UD would reshape itself again, this time in a more positive way, removing the "rot" that has existed there since Will first entered. After all, Dimension X does not appear to be inherently evil like the Upside Down, it’s only when it begins to shape around trauma that it changes and rots.

Some Final Thoughts

If we consider that it was Vecna who took Will, then it’s clear that Vecna's goal isn't to kill Will. In fact, in S2, Dr. Owens asks Will if the evil wants to kill him, to which Will responds that the Mind Flayer wants to kill "everyone else."

Why? Because Will has powers that Vecna wishes to exploit for his plan. Because, by keeping Will and his strong connection to the Upside Down alive, he caused the Mind Flayer to enter Will, giving him the ability to feel what it feels—and later, in S4, to feel what Vecna feels.

My speculation, given all of the similarities between Will and Henry Creel, is that Vecna hopes Will will come to see his view as the correct one. He recognizes that Will is treated differently, that he’s an outsider, and he wants to exploit this to have Will join his side. Like the Emperor to Anakin, and later Luke, Vecna doesn’t actually care about Will: he’s manipulating his emotions to access his power. He didn’t keep him alive out of the goodness of his heart. He kept him alive because he knows that Will’s emotions have the power to alter time in the UD.

Killing Will simply wouldn’t serve his purpose of using his trauma to keep the UD stuck in time, grinding it to a halt.

Because, if Will’s emotions have the power to imprint on the Upside Down to the degree that he shapes the way an entire dimension appears and operates, everything begins to make sense. That’s why Vecna kept him alive: to continue his plan of removing the burden of time from the world. That’s why the UD is shaped around him. And that’s why Eleven could not defeat Vecna on her own.

Will controls time in the Upside Down. He shapes it through his emotions and experiences. His fear and trauma slowed down the movement of time, so, if Vecna is to be defeated, it only seems plausible that healing from his trauma, learning that he is loved and accepted for who he is—that he’s not a mistake—will have the opposite impact. By doing so, time will speed back up in Dimension X, healing it in the process.

In the end, everything began with Will. It was his vanishing that kicked off the story we’ve followed for what’ll be five seasons. And it’ll be him that brings an end to everything, as well.

Author’s Note

Thank you to everyone who stuck around and read this whopper of a theory/analysis! Writing it has been a long (but very fun) process. I started writing this about three weeks ago, as a rewrite of my old clock theory with more of a focus on how I think the UD functions, but then it grew into a beast of its own. I just couldn’t help it! When I get a meta idea about Will in my head, I can’t not write thousands of words about it lmao.

That said, I always love to read other people’s thoughts on these theories—it’s truly the best part of our little community on here. So please, feel free to add onto this if you have any ideas! :)

—Em

#my brand might as well be long meta analyses of stranger things that focus on will byers lol #this one?#will byers has the power to control time in the upside down #st5 theory #will byers #stranger things #stranger things meta #stranger things analysis #stranger things theory #st meta #st analysis #st theory #will byers meta #the upside down #vecna #vecna’s curse #byler #byler meta #redshoes-blues

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justmy-account · 1 year ago

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List of byler-gates

I’m just bored, but read it anyways, it’s fun

there sooo many of them, and i’m still pretty lazy so this isn’t perfect, but just let’s start

Mikhailgate

This is practically anti byler theory, but nvm

So, Dimitri has a son named Mikhail, which is russian version of name Michael, Mike

So, people were just saying that instead of Mike, Will will end up with Mikhail(who’s technically Mike bc of the name, yk)

I think everyone was just joking, oh, good ol’ times

and willloveinterestgate is the same

Lettergate/Pocketgate

These theories aren’t the same one, but it’s basically the same concept, ig

The basic thing is, that Mike wrote a letter to Will(singed Love, Mike)

In pocketgate, Mike has the letter saved in his triangle pocket, bc in st, characters many times has letters, that were important to them, in their left pocket(above the heart), for example Hopper and El(Hopper’s heart-to-heart), Jonathan(acceptance letter to college) etc.

And he would just take it out in the middle of confession or sth

+the triangle always points to Will like an arrow

Lettergate is just basically the same, ok, idk how to describe it differently

Twelvegate

Not exactly a byler, but theory, that Will was number twelve in HNL, and that he’s El’s actual twin

And from that, there’s theory that Will has powers, but wasn’t n. 012

Okay, back to byler

This is same as rainbowgate i think

Flickergate

This theory is very lovely! after Will tells Mike that rolled seven in s1, the light behind them flickers

and since ud is frozen on nov6 83, when you signal sth from ud, it should appear at nov6 83-s1

this connects to electricgate(i dunno if sth like this exist, but just keep reading), the electricity~are friends electric~will possibly having electric powers

so mike and will could go together in s5 to ud on a mission or sth, and kiss in wheelers garage, and that would make the light flicker(i’m so good at explaining things, right😐)

will and mike going to ud together is predicted by mike and will sitting on upside down couch in last ep. of s4

Birthdaygate/Memorygate

Soo, remember how they forgot Will’s birthday? what if all wills memories, that people reminded him of in the shed are gone? his birthday, building castle byers, meeting mike… and that’s why mike says that his life started the day he found her, bc he doesn’t remember meeting Will

for me, it’s really weird, they couldn’t just forget Will’s birthday, no, this ain’t it

Kiss at lovers lake

I’m not sure if this has a different name, but it’s that their first kiss will be near lovers lake

evidence: patrick(the kid who died at lovers lake), had a nickname “berlin wall” or sth(we saw this in the school newspaper), and it was devided to four, same as hawkins

and song heroes is abt couple who lived at different sides of berlin wall, and idk, it just connects, okay?

when will painted the map of hawkins while he was possessed, mike was holding blue and yellow meter

Eightfifteengate

Context: will left the wheelers at 8:15 in s1

in s1e1, time mark 8:15 is literally the shot where will disappears in the shead

i think there’s a season 2 soundtrack called eight fifteen

tw: time fuckery: while will was recording on halloween night, the time says 8:04 while he’s recording mike saying “did you agreed with this?”, but when joyce rewatches it, it show 8:15(byler)

“ it’s 8:15, you’re late”

btw, clocks and watches from hiroshima are stuck at 8:15

aaanywaaay, there’s just too much 8:15 things, aaah(this is just a few)

what it has to do with byler?

well, 15-8=….(wait for it)….seven. a byler number. it was a seven!

also, “the first lie”, when murray says this to jancy, the time mark is… guess what, 8:15

there’s this theory with the songs “the first lie” and “the first i love you”, and it just connects

Motelgate

theory, that after mike’s “love” confession to el, they went to a motel for sleep, and mike and will had to share a bed, and we could possibly see flashbacks of it in s5, and it would kinda explain the two day skip

Colorgate

blue and yellow meet in the west, i’m sure you know this one, and there’s sooo many evidence in this

mattduffersbasementgate

It’s too late for this to be true, but the duffers are(/were) holding every cast member that ships byler in their basement, lol

bloopergate

Bloopers from byler scenes, basically, for example “not when i was the spy, oh fuck”, basically Finn and Noah being all giggly, i guess

bloopergate implies to every blooper, but why not to mention it

curtaingate

Sth like, that when there’s some fight happening between characters, if curtains are open, it means they’re open with their feeling and opposite

Example: milkvan make out scene-closed, but you don’t love me fight-opened

Bonus: „ but they like the curtain. people like us are just trying to look behind the curtain”(my very bad quotation of murray, yk what i mean)

Also, Suzie had blue and yellow curtains, and they were opened

And, “and i love her and i can’t lose her again”? Also curtains closed, like wtf, this fandom is crazy

piggybackgate

El knows abt Mike and Will. she saw how they act around each other, she’ve heard will saying “you’re the heart” to mike, saw that mike has Will’s painting now

New Coke Theory

basically, old coca colla is mileven, new coke is byler. it contains some of the old ingredients(mike), and new ones too(will). not everyone likes(bc its gay ship). and when you look at scenes with can of new coke, it’s many times symbolizing byler vs. milkvan

one of my favorite new coke theory examples is this: in s3, after el gets attacked by the flesh monster, she tries to crash a can(but she doesn’t have her powers, so she can’t). this is a can of new coke(byler) and she can’t crush that/destroy it. and in this scene, we get a flashback to the lab, where she crushes aka destroys regular coke(mileven)

phonegate

mike and will not calling each other, bc of joyce’s telemarketer job(he won’t stop whining abt it)

————

i miss all these little silly theories abt literally everything

i hope the byler tag will be like this once again

maybe we could start naming our new theories “gate”s again

for example: heartfeltgat, strangerwritersgate, snowkissgate or sth

anyway, byee

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fablefrogg · 2 months ago

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Will Byers Standing Up for El Doesn't Make Sense (From a Character/Narrative Standpoint)

Will Byers standing up for El from her bullies in Lenora doesn't make sense from both a character and a narrative standpoint.

First off, I truly think that if Will had stood up for her, he would have also been targeted and bullied. Look at what happened when the teacher jumped in to help El. That didn't solve anything; it only made the bullies more infuriated to the point that they came up with an elaborate plan to humiliate El at a public place (and with a lot of people that went along with this plan like the DJ).

I'm not saying that standing up to your bullies is ultimately pointless and that you should keep your head down in the hopes of them stopping because they very likely won't.

But we have to take into account Will's character. He has dealt with bullying for most of his life (and for his sexuality which could end in the very real possibility of him being hate-crimed since this was the 80s). On top of that, he has trauma from having to survive in the Upside Down and from being possessed one of its creatures, resulting in him indirectly killing the military soldiers in S2 when he is used as a spy. It's understandable why he wants to keep his head down.

El also seems to be in denial about the situation, considering that she lied to Mike about Angela being her friend, denied Will's claims when he points this out, and then tells Angela (even after the milkshake debacle) to tell Mike that they're actually friends.

Will isn't a fighter like Mike. He helps El in his own way by consoling her even though she pushes him away, knowing that she needs verbal reassurance (a possible parallel to El needing Mike to verbally say that he loves her), and offers to help her put her project back together. We must also remember that the one time he tried standing up for himself was to the Mind Flayer in S2 and he ended up getting possessed (while it was inevitable, it shows that standing up for oneself = negative results in Will's mind).

I don't personally believe that by not standing up for her, he has some hidden resentment against El because she's with the person he loves. Will has been on El's side the whole time; he just does it subtly. He lies to the police that what El did was an accident, he paces back and forth while ranting to Mike that Hawkins wouldn't be standing without her, forcefully tells the receptionist at the juvenile center that they're her family ergo let them see her, and even gets noticeably angry at Mike, the person he's in love with, for his distasteful comment at El at the dinner table.

I acknowledge that it would be super interesting to see a darker side to Will, but I don't think this is it. In S2, when he encounters the baby Demogorgon in the bathroom, he has good reason to kill it considering his trauma from the Upside Down. Instead, he reassures the Demogorgon, saying that he won't hurt it. If Will can offer empathy to a literal monster that comes from a source of trauma, there is no way in hell that he would hurt El, even if he did harbor feelings of resentment.

From a narrative standpoint, I'd say El being bullied is necessary to her arc and that Will stepping in would reduce the impact of that arc and her development. Her being bullied is a trigger event to her physical assault on Angela, confronting her with the one of the conflicts she's been internally fighting: she believes that she's a monster even without her abilities. It also serves as a catalyst and a parallel when she remembers the similar bullying she's experienced in the lab. Because Will didn't interfere, it makes El's development from coming out the other side the more powerful.

Additionally, Will supporting El in other ways other than standing up to the main source of her bullying makes sense with his own arc. Since the Duffers have said he will be vital in S5, that tells me that he needs to learn to stand up to fight, especially when they're faced against the Big Bad. He has to learn to stop hiding (even though that's what he does best) and learn to stand up not just for other people, but for himself, and once he accomplishes this, he'll come out confident and wiser.

#will byers #el hopper #stranger things #stranger things analysis #will byers analysis #byler

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willow-lark · 2 years ago

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lark's underrated byler fic recs

i went through my bookmarks to find the gems in this fandom that need more appreciation! let's uplift our community--pls check out these fabulous fics & give the authors some love!! 💕

beneath these boughs, my devotion blooms by @perexcri (T, 1/1, 11k) - drop whatever ur doing and read this fic RIGHT NOW. i'm not joking when i say it's one of the most transformative works of the 21st century. gorgeous, heart-wrenching prose & characterization. god!will & devotee!mike--except this fic turns that entire concept on its head. this fic killed me dead. you won't regret it.

Last true mouthpiece by @miwism (G, 1/1, 2k) - in which will and hawkins are one and the same. this fic opened up my eyes to a take on will-has-powers that i had never before considered but i have not stopped thinking about since i read it. i need more of eldritch will byers in this fandom & everybody should read this fic

don't leave me here alone by @strangeswift (NR, 1/1, 3.4k) - ok this one is EVIL. this one is GOOD. essentially: mike tries to convince will to run away with him to keep will safe from vecna, but will might not be the one who needs protecting... i am a sucker for some s5-speculative angst and this fic DEFINITELY delivers!

all I know is pouring rain (and everything has changed) by @willelfanpage (T, 1/1, 3.2k) - a character study of will, particularly in relation to life moments he has in the rain. ugh, will byers my love will byers my light... this fic is so gorgeous and so beautifully done, i think everyone should check it out! i love the canon moments mixed in with non-canon ones.

take me to the lakes by @afterglowsssss (T, 1/1, 2.1k) - FANTASY BYLER EVERYONE CHEERED!!! prince will x knight mike is something that can legitimately be so personal, you guys. they have so much love and affection for one another that i'm literally throwing up (/pos). cleradin's been getting a lot of love lately and i am enjoying it but u guys need to hype this one UPPPP!!

come to me again (in the cold, cold night) by @perexcri (M, 3/3, 16k) - i've been on a vampire kick lately and this is the fic that started it for me. featuring: estranged byler, vampires, dystopia, angst, reunions, and CONSISTENTLY BANGER prose. would not expect any less from a perexcri fic. this one is a little creepy and dark and is absolutely gripping the entire way through.

there will come a poet (whose weapon is his word) by @fizzseed (T, 1/1, 3.2k) - fics that include mike as a writer are always some of my favs. and when he writes for WILL??? ahhhh my heart!! he's just so sweet and dedicated and this fic is just SUCH a gem. i think byler's relationship with each other when it comes to D&D (separate from cleradin AUs) is so interesting and i'm so glad this fic explored it!!

Every eye trained on a different star by @ohfallingdisco (G, 1/1, 2.9k) - ok so just thinking ab this fic as i'm typing this is literally making me tear up. in short: will comes out to bob. why don't we have more fics like this in this fandom??? will byers & bob newby my beloveds. r u kidding MEEEEEEE. like WHAT. all y'all take NOTES bc i want more of this shit

#byler #byler fic rec #byler fic recs #mike wheeler #will byers #stranger things #posts of lark #fic recs #go read these rn!! mwah

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v-i-r-i-d-i-a-n · 1 year ago

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S5 predictions cus I saw someone else do it

LETTERGATE LETTERGATE LETTERAGTE LETTERAGTE

Dustin or Steve dies, idk man it just feels like if someone is gonna die (because let’s be honest with ourselves there’s NO WAY EVERYONE survives) it would be one of them, and as much as I want Steve to live and be his own person and be happy and blablabla the love triangle their setting up and how he’s obviously NOT over Nancy worries me a bit

WILL BYERS HAS POWERS WILL BYERS HAS POWERS WILL BYERS HAS POWERS!!!

On a more serious note I think the other party members parents are gonna have to be let in on what’s happening, ESPECIALLY with the stuff the Hawkins gang pulled last season, I think that the Wheelers(maybe Mrs Henderson as well) might get a bit more protective/over bearing with their kids, possibly making it harder to plan and do things

Sortve romcom-y but I think Will’s gonna get hit on by girls 🖐️

WILL BYERS WITH A GUN PURRTY PLEASE

Eleven being the one to break up with Mike (or propose the break up) but it being a more mutual thing

Mike not being mad(?) about the painting, but more confused and sad, like “why would you lie to me?” It may come across as anger in Will’s POV but I genuinely believe Mikes more- confused about it

El talking to Max through the void/searching for Max in the void

Max waking up generally earlier in the season

#stranger things #will byers #byler #maxine mayfield #lucas sinclair #dustin henderson #micheal wheeler #Mike wheeler #mike wheeler is in love with will byers

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bylerfields · 9 months ago

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the ask you answered about not seeing dominant mike is really interesting! i feel like a lot of people fight against a more dom will bc they assume people took “buff byers” and ran with it, ignoring characterization, but this take on it, will being the same will regardless of his looks and it fitting mike who’s just more gentle by nature makes so much sense.

thanks anon!!! waaah i’m glad someone else sees it like that, i feel on an island most of the time

the hc that mike goes back to being his gentle s1-2 self once he has nothing to be so wound up about might be the closest one to my heart, it’s really important to me! people always talk about going back and watching will in the show in defense against buff byers and pointing out how he’s just as soft, which i agree with obviously. he didn’t change in s4 because of his looks.

the way i look at it isn’t that will suddenly rose up to mike’s level and made them both balanced masc dudes in s4 - it’s that they started out on the same level and mike has gone out of his way to rise up past will, and he’ll eventually come back down when he settles into his identity. idk if that makes sense.

kinda sidenote mike character study but this is also why it’s funny to me how his brattiest most bottomy moments are showcased during s3, because it’s also the season where he’s conforming the most. the dichotomy is fun to watch, and while i don’t think this dynamic stays put when he grows up, it says a lot about mike i think. the whole “will isn’t a good partner for mike then if you think he’s characterized like that” claim is interesting to me bc its

1) so limiting and (dare i say) so sex focused, like you think they wouldn’t be able to figure it out at all if they wanted different things in bed? 10+ years of close friendship? will’s head over heels for mike. not the idea he has of him (even the painting even the knight stuff etc etc etc - i think he’s right about mike and the show is obv telling us this. my point is that, it’s a s5 plot point. it’s not informing every aspect of their dynamic like most assume). and again, i simply have trouble believing will’s desires would be so concrete when this is mike, it’s not a fantasy it’s his best friend who’s also gay and comes with his own baggage. which leads me to point two

2) it’s ignorant of any potential depth mike has. there’s the argument that will’s needs and traits are ignored when people write a more subby mike. i think more often than not, mike’s areas of depth, esp areas where he wouldn’t be as compatible to will, are cherry picked out. and i don’t think this is too far fetched to think because of how many have said they see him as just a love interest for their favorite character. there are for sure aspects of mike wiiiiidely accepted that are fanon and people don’t even realize bc it just fits will so perfectly. and tbh! fanon is fun au’s are fun so idc! but let’s call it what it is i guess and not be the canon validity police for other things.

i’m also incredibly bored of the idea that “leader” is a masculine role.

tldr; will’s more dominant side doesn’t require him to become more aggressive than he is to power over mike, bc a mike who’s accepted himself, settled, regulated, and with will doesn’t need his power taken away. he’s just chilling 💞

thanks for the ask sooo sorry for the essay answer <3

#asks #byler #spicy byler

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chirpsythismorning · 2 years ago

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You can't expect people to take you seriously if you're not providing any proof? If Will and El are twins and Joyce and Hopper are their bio parents, why don't any of them know about it and why haven't there been any hints about it? I'm not even trying to be rude here I just haven't seen any evidence. Let alone strong evidence

I've gotten a few confused asks about this theory and how it just doesn't make any sense..?

I'm not saying that I completely understand the ins and outs of how it works, in fact I'm still completely immersed in theorizing and not being certain of anything! Quite frankly, I don't understand it (how time works/the rules of the game), though I think that's necessary because otherwise everyone and their mother would have guessed this surprise by now if it was any more obvious than it already is.

I also just feel kind of bad about spoiling what could possibly be going down, especially bc this would clearly be a series long surprise.

I've been theorizing for months now with @shippingfangirl013 about this. It started with us sharing thoughts about Twelvegate and just sort of piecing together s4 lab scenes and then eventually going back to the beginning to see what we might have missed from this new lens, that being the possibility that Will is Twelve. And that's when we realized A LOT of stuff has been overlooked from the very beginning, which provides not only answers to certain questions we had, but also brings forth even more questions that we wouldn't have come up with, had we not looked back further into the details in the first place.

She has a bunch of posts that are severely underrated in regards to this whole theory, so I urge you all to check those out:

Twelvegate Theory: Drowning in the Quarry and Will & El (Part 1)

Twelve Actor Resemblance to Young Will Byers

Stranger Things S5 Conglomerate Twelvegate Theory (Part 1)

Conglomerate ST S5 Theory Parallels

Also be sure to keep an eye out because she has some really big brain analysis in the works that you dont want to miss. I can honestly say she plays a big role in why I feel fairly confident about this theory, because I myself didn't really believe it at first. But now, after everything I've seen, it's kind of hard not to.

Even if you don't like this the idea of this theory or just simply don't believe the evidence presented that you've seen thus far, at the very least looking at this could expand your ability to look further at other details on the show and even pick up on evidence of your own. I find that more often than not, knowing about the existence of certain overlooked details allows you to find even more overlooked details that others missed.

For the sake of your doubtful ask, and for anyone else who isn't even considering this theory because it seems too far fetched, I'm going to share some of my favorite unhinged evidence for whatever the hell gate we're calling this...

But first, here is some basic context for the chaos that follows.

Something important to note, is that we don't meet Hopper, El or the Byers the night that Will went missing. We only met Will and the party. Instead they saved the rest of the main character's introductions (his family, mind you) for the following day, after Will had gone missing. This also means they saved their introductions for AFTER the big power outage that happened that night right before he disappeared.

I find this interesting because this choice allowed them to make those introductions feel arguably 'starting point'/reset-like (like in a video game).

You'll also note there is a 'Pizza One' box in that first scene when the party is in Mike's basement playing their campaign, moments before that power outage. This could have been a hint that the very start of the pilot episode at the Wheelers may very well be the OG timeline, that we've been straying from ever since. And so let's say hypothetically, if we had met Hopper, El and the Byers BEFORE that power outage, whose to say their lives wouldn't have looked slightly different...?

The first time we are introduced to Hopper is in the scene directly after the opening credits, which was right after the scene of Will disappearing in the shed. Hopper is sleeping on the couch in his trailer, wearing both his daughter's blue bracelet and his watch. We also get 3 references to keys in this scene (a 2 ft long key decal in the literal opening shot). And if that's not enough, what follows is Hopper getting ready for work, putting a yellow pen in his pocket near a painting of an owl, before grabbing his keys and walking out the door.

The first time we are introduced to Joyce (the Byers), follows directly after the scene with Hopper, where Joyce just so happens to be looking everywhere for her keys, Where the hell are they?, followed by finding them on the couch, despite already looking there previously with no luck (interesting Hopper was sleeping on the couch with Willel symbols on his wrists only moments before this hmm). We then get a shot of Joyce showing concern over Will not eating breakfast, followed by scolding Jonathan for forgetting to wake Will up, adding I've told you this a thousand times, before she walks past an owl on the wall in the hallway and opens the door to another owl on the wall in Will's (unoccupied) room...

Let me just say, for the sake of this fictional family, I hope to god they haven't been through this thousands of times. Though I fear they might have. At least more than once...

There are a lot, A LOT of scenes that go down like this. As the show progresses, we get a lot of references to time passing and confusion and impatience and it almost feels like they themselves know deep down this isn't their first rodeo, and yet they're still playing along bc how exactly can one question their reality?.

The problem right now for me, is that I don't understand the rules of the game. How does time work? What even is the goal of the game (to win, I presume?)? Maybe Vecna's having to keep reseting the time loop, to get the results he wants, and over time he's getting closer and closer to the results he wants, but it will ultimately (predictably) lead to him failing once and for all in the final season, when all is inevitably revealed?

Hypothetically, if this is all some game/pocket universe Vecna has thrown our core characters into, essentially surrounding them with 'fakers', then how do we know what is/isn't real? Or I guess whether or not we're in a timeline/loop either closest to, or furthest away from the original timeline? That's why it's hard for me to go further in terms of definitively piecing everything together time wise. Not only that, but we also don't even know for sure what Vecna wants from Will and El, truly.

But I do think that a lot of the answers to the truth are hidden in plain sight.

If you're genuinely curious, I encourage you to rewatch the show for yourself to see if you can pick up on things! Be sure to keep an eye out for keys and owls in particular. Also, El's flashbacks of Mama/the rainbow room might prove to be important... like, literally slowing down and pausing and screenshooting every single frame level important...

Who knows, you might even stumble upon a completely different undiscovered theory in the process!

On that note, here is just a slice of my favorite evidence in regards to this theory, that will hopefully open your mind to the possibility:

When Hopper asks about Lonnie's whereabouts, Joyce insists TRUST ME HE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. They made sure to keep the keys on the wall OUT of the frame in those shots referencing Lonnie by name specifically. However, when the conversation circles back to Will, and then follows after with Joyce telling Hopper to find her son, the keys are once again visible in both of their shots.

This scene right here is pretty epic. We all interpret Hopper's investigative skills throughout the series as him just being good at his job. But I would argue this scene in particular gives off very intense deja vu. It's as if Hopper knows where to look, because he's done this before. It's as if he's getting a gut feeling in certain areas that actually could be close to the truth, because this is his thousandth time doing this (Jesus, for their sake, I hope that's not the case).

Still, Hopper showcases a lot of unbelievable detective work throughout the show, and I think it could very well be hinting at him drifting in and out of awareness over the fact that he has done this before, which allows him to make such incredible guesses that lead him to the answer sooner than he would have in any normal situation (and yet, never too close...)

Has this always been here? That's what Hopper asks about a dent in the wall. We interpret it as maybe Hopper trying to figure out if this could be connected to Will's disappearance. But what if it's more than that? What if it hasn't always been there? What if this is a glitch in the matrix of sorts, and he noticed that glitch, bc this isn't his first time doing this? (Also peep the owl that shows up at the very last second in the shot directly below, with Joyce and Hopper in the frame, just as he gets the urge to check the backyard...)

This scene... This fucking scene ya'll. It just doesn't make any sense. This is one of several scenes throughout the show that have so many unanswered questions. I think it's because something else is going on that weren't not supposed to understand yet. That shot with Hopper encased in a rainbow is cool and probably means something... Hopper intensely walking into the frame as he steps towards the shed, with the upside down horseshoe above the door also probably means something...

Hopper literally walks up straight to where Will was in the shed the night previous, bc he's just that good of a detective. Yeah, okay... Suddenly the light overhead is blinking dramatically, only to switch off completely, which leads Hopper's eyes to catch this makeshift fort in the corner of the shed. Before he even gets a good look at what he's seeing, he's interrupted by Callahan, pulling him out of his deja vu state, followed by the light switching back on instantly, as if the occurrence was all in his head.

This also happens a lot, where our main characters are being interrupted by other characters, only seconds before they were close to solving something. And I just find that interesting...

This one is kind of peak comedy because, all it's doing on the surface is implying that Joyce and Hopper have a romantic history, but it also sneakily involves Will in the joke, as evidence that they have been intimate... The Chief and her, they've screwed before huh? ...WILL! That a 'yeah' or did they...

To be honest, I was really doubtful about Joyce and Hopper being El and Will's biological parents at first, even despite believing twelvegate and the possibility of them being twins. And this doubt mostly came from the scenes we get with Terry aka El's 'Mama'.

Initially, I had convinced myself it would be too sad, considering how much backstory we got about Terry. But @shippingfangirl013 made me realize that there is something very off about these scenes with Terry, that I think kind of went over all of our heads.

First of all, Mama is essentially the equivalent to the name Papa, and so we should start by unpacking that. Why didn't the writers have El distance herself from that exact association she links to Brenner, by just having her call Terry 'mom' like most kids call their mother? It doesn't seem that serious on the surface, but again this is a choice the writers made... Maybe it's because they wanted the audience to subconsciously associate those two with each other (Papa/Mama)? Also peep Jim giving Will Byers vibes, all lit up by the sun like Jesus (or I guess... God?) below!

The main thing I want to talk about though, is that despite Terry's vegetative state, she's still managing to give us hints about how she feels and what she thinks, with very subtle micro-expressions.

When she meets Hopper and Joyce in s1, Terry looks completely unsurprised. You could say she looks the same all of the time, because of her vegetative state, and while I mostly agree, there are some outliers in the mix.

When Joyce mentions El being her daughter, what we get is a reaction shot of Terry dramatically closing her eyes for an extended period of time, almost like she's experiencing frustration over them woefully misunderstanding the truth behind what's going on.

And I think that's kind of the whole point of the vegetative state here, that perhaps if Terry could say what she wanted to say, it would give away the truth that has been hidden all along, AKA Joyce and Hopper are El and Will's true parents. When Joyce then mentions her missing son, showing Terry a picture of him, this woman LITERALLY turns her head to the right, looking straight up annoyed... Why? Why would she do that unless this is her ?/? time meeting them, hearing this same old silly charade?..

But then here... THIS moment when Hopper asks about Brenner and Terry's relationship with him, that's when it gets interesting. Terry doesn't look exhausted over their ignorance anymore like she seemed to be in the moments previous. Now, she's back to her stare of nothing, and yet seeing this in contrast to her micro-expressions, almost adds a new layer to what this could possibly mean... Perhaps this could be hinting that Hopper is a lot closer to the truth than he realizes, warranting a knowing look from Terry, with her almost impressed, thinking Damn Jim, maybe you'll figure it out this time and I can finally be released from this hell...

This might seem like a reach to assume Brenner and Terry had any sort of relation beyond her being a lab volunteer, but something I think you might be interested in knowing, is that Terry has a little collection of Bonsai tree books beside her chair... Bonsai... does that remind you of anyone...? (If you check out those posts by @shippingfangirl013, you might know what i'm referring to...)

The fact that Hopper even mentions Brenner and Terry's presumed connection to him is just one other example of Hopper subconsciously picking up on things he discovered in previous loops that are close to the TRUE truth, allowing him to narrow things down quicker this time around, without needing to take all the steps to get to that point.

An owl behind both Joyce and Hopper here, while they talk about what allegedly happened to Terry and her daughter Jane.

And there you have it folks, the acknowledgment that the truth could have been covered up, the moment Hopper stands in front of the owl artwork (literally covering it up). Owls, which have been tied more than anyone else to Hopper, Joyce, Will and El (tying them together?).? Also the crib between them... Nothing to see here.

This one is pretty self explanatory. We even get a parallel to this in s4 with El AND Will, though next time they'll confirm Hopper's role in the equation. So, be ready for that...

These scenes are so important to this theory because despite them all being separated (who knows how many times now), they have this epic finale of coming together. We get these really heartfelt scenes with El and Joyce and Hopper, Will and El, and then Will and Joyce and Hopper, and it's all very emotional and just so much deeper knowing that the truth could be that they're all tied to each other more than we (or even them) realize.

11 & 12 between the two hands on the clock, in a moment that parallels X-Men and also the lab massacre (which presumably had both 11 and 12 in attendance...). Mike calling out to El emotionally the moment that Joyce and Hopper are reunited with Will. My heart can't take it!!!

Someone actually noticed this shot of Hopper recently, I can't remember who! But it made me want to go back to see what shot is right before it. And low and behold, it follows directly after a shot of the Byers family reuniting. Kind of interesting they made the choice to have this shot right afterwards, of Hopper sitting next to Ted (aka a dad), while looking lost in thought as he stressfully bites his nails, with his arm sporting his daughter's blue bracelet...

Not suspicious at all. That creepy shadow behind Owens as he makes an almost knowing comment about Joyce and Hopper being 'Mom and Pop', followed by Hopper looking like he's missing something...

And for this scene to follow shortly after? Hopper literally acknowledging Owens whose waving at him politely, and yet choosing to not wave back at him?... He KNOWS something is off, but he just can't quite put his finger on it...

As you probably know, most of the scenes with the birthday mug in Mike's basement involve either El (in s1) or Will (in s2-3), which is interesting considering the other few notable birthday references we get in the show, including this really cryptic sequence above, involve Joyce and Hopper...

Now, if you still didn't believe me about Terry's behavior being off, I think this piece of evidence might help support our claims a little bit more for you to consider. Because, why, WHY when El approaches Terry in the void and says I'm home, is Terry's response No..? Why would that even make any sense? Why would El's biological mom say No to her missing daughter implying that she is her family? Unless, she's not of course...?

Something interesting about the flashbacks that Terry shows El, is that they're very sporadic and hard to understand. Not only that, but we STILL get callbacks to these memories heavily even in s4, which tells me there is still something there that has yet to be picked up on, by both the audience and El herself, which is why they keep resurfacing in different forms. My favorite moment out of the s2 flashbacks though is probably this moment where it looks like a baby is born, only for Brenner to look back, like there's more to come (another baby?? TWINS?). But this type of twin imagery, only gets stronger in s3-4...

After 2 seasons of building up this meeting of these two characters who have been mirroring each other since the very beginning, here we are... Also, why even hold back for so long in introducing them? Maybe because them finally interacting properly is going to cause some things to resurface... And you definitely don't want to overlook these shots of Hopper and Joyce in Melvald's with two baby's in between them, followed by a shot of keys... Hmmmm.

Remember when I said to pay attention to the Terry/Lab flashbacks El experiences over the seasons?

Well this particular flashback below comes from 3x06: E Plurbius Unum aka the episode that was originally titled The Birthday, might prove to be important...

Jonathan and Will in a scene prior to El's flashback, has them situated interestingly between this Lucky Charms box and this Spill & Spell game, which is then followed by this scene with El experiencing flashbacks... And...

Rainbow? Lucky (Upside down horse shoe...) Enter flashback

I'm not going to be able to show each frame of this flashback, because in total there are over 30 different quick images shown and repeated...

And so, If you want to find out why this is the strongest piece of evidence for Willel twins in my opinion (brought to you by @shippingfangirl013's big brain), go back and rewatch to see how many times they show the image of baby El and young El in the rainbow room... Also take note of how shots of Kali (008) are interspersed consistently within this flashback, aka a character that is known for having powers to make people invisible, and to also make people see things that aren't actually happening...

Here's that parallel I mentioned earlier making a return, but instead tying El (and arguably Will) to Hopper being their biological father. Also peep El's bracelet and Will's watch being prominent in a lot of their shots together throughout s4, now that they share the screen a lot more.

The Wright Bros...

No, but seriously, Willel's bracelet and watch mirroring each other often in their scenes together, and by association also paralleling Hopper wearing one of each, dramatically showcased in his introduction to the series, can be something so personal to me...

THEY'RE TWINS YOUR HONOR!

This one really goes off. A car passes by a couple times during this flashback El has (IN S4), causing a shadow to cast behind Will, almost creating this duplicate-like effect... This is literally happening while El is having a flashback to her 'birth mother', while staring at a family (with their faces warn out/blurred) on a billboard, with an arrow pointing towards where Will, aka her twin, is standing to the right of her...

This one below has gotta be my favorite though. And it's because I literally remember watching this scene the first time and being confused?

Tbh, that's when you know something is more complex than it appears. Whenever something feels off within the context provided in the moment, it's probably because there's something deeper going on and there are multiple meanings at play. This means they're using this small moment as an opportunity to provide dual meaning in plain sight, that we wont understand the dual meaning of until later on down the line.

Are you ready..

Hmmm. I wonder what this could possibly be alluding to? Could it perhaps be the writers hinting at Hopper unintentionally projecting his own situation onto Dmitri? Is it possible who Hopper believes to be his child (daughter... son(s?)?) and his (ex)wife, are not actually who he and everyone thinks they are...?

Well. There you have it! These are just some of the many, many hints hiding in the details that point to the possibility of the Byers actually all being, Hoppers...?

For now, this is just a theory! So even though it's cool and there is a serious amount of evidence pointing to it, it will most definitely continue to transform and look different over time, the more we look deeper and discover more. Nothing is set in stone, for now it's all just theories and speculation.

Again, if you're curious about what else there is out there in regards to this theory and other possibilities surrounding it, please follow and check out @shippingfangirl013 posts! She was way more on board with this theory than me in the beginning and arguably still is, because I do still experience occasional doubt about it, for sure.! And so without her I would not have come to half of these conclusions! I look forward to you guys seeing other stuff she's discovered bc seriously... Her poor storage ya'll.

And also, if you're interested in the time-loop aspect specifically in regards to this, I encourage you to check out two recent posts I did about this. Part I actually starts with those first scenes introducing Hopper and the Byers and how other scenes later in the show parallel it. VERY VERY cool stuff, and tbh if you've made it this far, I think you'll be intrigued...

Time Loop Fuckery in Stranger Things Part I

Time Loop Fuckery in Stranger Things Part II

#byler #stranger things #twelvegate #willel wondertwins #willel literal twins #joyce + hopper = willel twins #also apologizes to the duffers #i do feel bad about letting their surprises be talked about IF this actually ends up being canon in the final season...#then again when s5 promo starts rolling around #people are already going to be speculating if there is evidence in promo #i know bylers will be especially bc we have so many theories already that anything pointing to them blatantly going forward #will have us literally jumping on the walls and blasting about how obvious it is #and atp i think the ga will catch on regardless of us sharing these easter eggs...#again tho #just a theory!!

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pinkeoni · 2 years ago

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Owens is probably going to play a big role in S5, and will be revealed as a bad guy 'who wants to do things for the greater good'. I just think though if he knew about Will's situation in S2 and did not really say anything... it makes him too much of a POS. Like, he literally let Will be possessed... that's kinda fucked up within the given context now.

Hello anon,

Sorry this ask took forever for me to get to it. I think you might have sent me a similar ask a little while ago??

But I totally agree. Owens is definitely fishy and this will likely be explored in season 5. I do think he is, as you said, the "bad guy 'who wants to do things for the greater good.'" This is similar to both Henry and Papa, they are bad people, but they don't see what they are doing as bad. Owens would likely be no different.

I think there are two ways for how things could go. Either A) Owens tries to awaken Will's powers to use against Henry, or B) Owens tries to eliminate Will's powers so that Henry can't use them. I KNOW that Owens knows more about Will's powers than he is letting on, and I think that placing El with the Byers might actually be apart of this. It's a convenient and discreet way to keep a close eye on both El and Will.

I'm kinda leaning more towards the B option, although I don't see it actually working. I think the A option would feel too close to the NINA plot, and the B option could also function as an allegory for conversion therapy, trying to eliminate apart of someone's identity. I think it might even be possible that Owens could work together with Lonnie, which would parallel Owens working with Brenner.

#anon #asks #sam owens #will byers #will byers has powers #stranger things #stranger things theory #lonnie byers #tw lonnie byers #byler #<- target audience

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erikiara80 · 2 years ago

Text

3x03 analysis: Byler and other theories

In this episode there are so many things that this is almost a masterpost of everything I talk about here, lol.

I’m gonna start with Will. There’s so much about him, starting with the title of the episode, The case of the missing lifeguard - The vanishing of Will Byers. Not a coincidence, in the episode where the Mind Flayer(Vecna) is officially back

1. Will and dragons

The Will the Wise drawing + dragons at Castle Byers. No surprise there

When we see this, we hear Mike saying his 1x01 line: “Something’s coming...”

But I found something else here, one thing that is connected to three theories! Willel twins, birthdaygate and Will and dragons. I’m gonna talk about dragons first.

So, this is one of the lifeguards El and Max talk to while they’re looking for Heather. The name on the magazing is Rick James. A singer who in 1985 released his 8th album: Glow. I was like, what? This can’t be a coincidence.

So.

Glow. We know that Will’s been associated with lights/electricity since S1. And he’s also associated with dragons.

In the movie The Last Dragon, the Glow is the power that a martial artist develops when they reach the final level of martial arts, known as... the Last Dragon. They’re basically able to concentrate so much mystical energy that their hands start to glow.

In S4, Steve and Robin talk near the poster of that movie at Family Video. So, Will, dragons, and energy that makes your hands glow. Like this?

My theories on Will and dragons:

Will, dragons and Gozer, a ST-Ghostbuster-DnD parallel important for S5

The Last Dragon and the power of the Glow

2. Byler

Many people have analyzed Will and Mike in this episode, and the rain fight, that mirrors the fight at Rink-o-mania in S4. This is a very important episode, I’d say one of the most important. For many reasons.

1) The episode starts with Max reassuring El that Mike will come crawling back to her in no time, begging for forgiveness. But not only we immediately see that that’s not the case, and that Mike is complaining with Lucas about girls and showing that he doesn’t even think he did something wrong.

The episode ends with Mike riding in a storm, at night, to beg Will for forgiveness, because he knows that he’s been a total asshole. And he doesn’t care if Joyce or Jonathan can hear him. It’s true and he’s gonna tell everyone that what he did was wrong. (I love that Lucas is there too and wants to apologize. I love their friendship)

2) But all this happens because this is the first time Mike has deeply hurt Will. The shock in Mike’s eyes tells everything. That he’s never seen Will so upset and angry.

And then this. He didn’t want Will to go away. He wanted him to stay with him. He wants to play games with Will in his basement for the rest of his life. And seeing him leave like that under a storm. Hurt. Angry. That must’ve really hurt.

And if Will hadn’t told him that the Mind Flayer was back. If Mike and Lucas had found him and talked with him, showing him that they were truly sorry and didn’t mean to hurt him, maybe the next day, Will and Mike would’ve spent time together and talked. But in any case, Mike wasn’t ready to understand. Yet.

Now, let’s talk about Willel.

3. Billy-El-Will parallel

Here Billy’s eyes, when he’s fully possessed. The color doesn’t change (same for Heather and the other Flayed) Only El and Will’s color eye change. And if El’s eyes change when she’s using her powers, maybe the Mind Flayer was using Will’s in S2.

I wrote about this here

Billy, El and Will’s eye color

Did Will really cast Fog Cloud in S2 in the tunnels?

4. Willel twins

@chirpsythismorning I don’t know if you noticed this. Third theory the magazine is connected to. El and Max are talking with the lifeguards and there are two interesting details.

One is the Happy Birthday on the poster and the TWO on the magazine. So the birthday of two people? In a scene with El. Interesting.

Here it’s more clear.

And the other thing is the date: ‘76. The only two numbers we see. 76, like 1976, this mysterious year they keep mentioning.

In S1, when this reporter is talking about Will’ “death” and says this:

“...Byers isn't the first person to drown in Sattler's Quarry. You'll recall only seven years ago...” 1983 - 7= 1976

(screenshot by shippingfangirling013)

And in S2, in the article about Terry Ives. I think it’s also the year she said that Brenner stole her baby daughter. Mid-1970s. Not early 70s (1971). But in no timeline El was born in the mid-1970s. She would’ve been seven in S1. So maybe that’s the original timeline, and that means that Terry isn’t El’s mother.

Other possible hints. I love this shot

El and Will’s same reaction

The Happy Birthday cup that we see often throughout the show, since ep 1 (it’s also in the next ep, near Will, when he talks about the Mind Flayer)

This shot with Hopper and Joyce and the pic of a baby between them (not the only time it happens. We also see two babies between them at Malvald’s in 3x01) But there are even bigger and more interesting hints imo in other episodes of S3, and throughout the whole show.

What I like in this ep is how Hopper mentions Sarah. “After Sara I had to get away. I had to get the hell out of that place... Outrun those memories, I guess.”

Always interesting when they mention memories. Especially since we’ve only seen the same memory of Sara for years. And they never explained why Hopper was at the lab when she died.

These are the theories to understand what I’m talking about: the Willel Twins theory and the many reasons we can’t trust what we see:

chirpsythismorning theory on the parallels between Joyce, Terry and two real victim of MKUltra

Will and Sara Hopper

Terry and El’s flashback are different

All the signs in 2x07 that make the whole Kali ep sus

Parallels between Kali ep (2x07) and 4x07 (The massacre at the Lab)

There’s so much more, but this post is already so long.

In Part Two I’m gonna talk about the parallel between Will’s kidnapping and El at Heather’s house. The parallel between the Creel House and Heather’s house. The dnd campaign as foreshadowing of S5. The clocks and other things. What an episode!

tagging you, as always : ) @lilitblaukatz

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #willel #birthdaygate #willel twins #will has powers #st parallels #st theory #st analysis #stranger things

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