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preserving-ferretbrain · 6 years ago

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Subject Fail

by Wardog

Tuesday, 02 February 2010

Wardog is utterly horrified by the Subject Zero in Mass Effect II~

In case all the squeeing in the playpen hasn’t made it clear, I’m currently playing Mass Effect II – one of my favourite RPGs of all time, not least of all because it has

a genuinely functional morality system,

for once. Mass Effect II takes everything that was even slightly imperfect about Mass Effect I (and there were some issues, believe me – not least of all the cumbersome rumbling around barren planets in the crappy mako) and either polishes it until it shines or throws it out the window. Whoring for renegade and paragon points so you can use your charm / intimidate skills is no longer necessary, and finally they’ve noticed that picking the neutral option shouldn’t be a bum deal, so you actually get a scattering of both renegade and paragon points for charting a course between doormatty sainthood and shooting people in the face. With the result that Mass Effect IIis a little piece of awesome, and I love it passionately.

As much as I enjoyed Dragon Age, I genuinely (and probably heretically) believe that Mass Effect is by far the superior game. By giving you an already established character, Shepard, and the freedom to develop his/her attitude as you wish, it avoids all the problems Dan articulates in

this

article on Dragon Age. I think embracing linearity, as opposed to serving up a poor semblance of freedom, makes for a deeper story and, paradoxically, a more personalised experience. In short, I'd much rather be Shepard within a story constructed all around me, than Second Dwarf Commoner From The Left.

Spoilers incoming.

There's only one fly in my Mass Effect ointment, and that's the character of Subject Zero. Seriously, Bioware, what were you thinking?! To be fair, Mass Effect has always been

a bit dodgy

with its gender politics. But, despite being wet as a rice paddy during a Monsoon (and not in a good way) and the weird virginity fetishisation undertone, Liara did make a decent partner for my Shepard, soothing my renegade inclinations with her tentacles...err...I mean gentle ideals. But Subject Zero goes beyond “hmmm, you were a bit clueless, weren't you?” and into “ye gods, what is wrong with you?”

Before the game came out, there were a couple of trailers to build up excitement and anticipation about the Subject Zero character. Click

here

for the first one. Trying too hard, much? Good grief, she swears! She has tattoos. And a shaved head! How freaky! How alternative! How badass! My tiny mind is blown. Now putting aside the fact she looks, and talks, like your typical Ox Goth, which is off-putting to say the least, this is pretty cringe-worthy but not so out of the usual realm of cringe-worthy wankfantasy videogame characters that I did more than roll my eyes and sigh. It is, however, generally annoying that for a woman to be a badass she also has to be broken (“turns out, mess with someone’s head enough and you can turn a scared kid into an all-powerful bitch"). Healthy women, y’see, wouldn't be getting tattoos and firing guns, oh no, they'd be, I don't know, doing healthy things like sewing or getting married.

Then came the second trailer (which you can see

here

). It's still annoying but it's less “wow, we have a terrible attitude towards women” annoying, and she shows some depth and complexity beyond the over-sexed, broken badass model of the first trailer. Well, at least she does if you’re feeling mildly generous about it.

Part of the problem with the trailers, I think, is the lack of awareness – there seems to be no understanding of how far are we meant to buy Subject Zero's rhetoric, how far she buys it herself, and to what extent it is rhetoric. I like the second trailer more than the first because she seems genuinely psychotic and dangerous – which puts her on par with most of the rest of the cast - as opposed to the first trailer which depicts her as somebody ultimately fearful and pretending. Is she a victim or a badass, or a victim AND a badass, and if the latter how far, and in what ways, are they connected?

And then there's the game itself, where it all goes to shit.

You recruit Subject Zero (or Jack as she is known – which I think is quite cool) from a penal colony called Purgatory as part of the formation of your personal Dirty Dozen. She was sold, as a child, to a dodgy medical facility who tortured her, and a bunch of other kids, in order to increase their biotic abilities. Eventually, Jack managed to kill her way to freedom – causing chaos throughout the galaxy until her arrest. As part of her “gain her loyalty” quest, you take her back to the remains of the facility because … y'know … she's a woman, so she needs closure, or some other touchy feely girly crap. Again, the quest as a whole straddles the border between interesting and annoying. It’s interesting because there’s a brief moment in which the writers seem to be doing something slightly original with Subject Zero - she learns that other children were being abused even worse than she was in order to protect her, and make sure the biotic-enhancement experiments wouldn't kill her. This would genuinely be an intriguing development for someone who, rather self-indulgently and self-destructively, has always perceived herself as a victim. But the game promptly brushes this under the carpet, and instead presents you with the usual “you're a killer, Jack, get used to it” versus “but you have to let go of your past so it no longer controls you” moral dilemma. Yawn. And ultimately what you have here is a sequence which does nothing but prove how completely dominated Subject Zero is by the terrible things that were done to her when she was a kid – so much so that it makes much of her subsequent life of badassery a complete lie.

Of course, it’s perfectly realistic that somebody would, in fact, be completely dominated by the terrible things that happened to them as a child. People are. BUT the game isn’t trying to engage with the far reaching effects of child abuse. It’s offering up the worst kind of male fantasy there is – that of the woman who seems totally strong, but is secretly a broken flower who desperately needs a man to save her. All the characters you recruit to your Suicide Squad are, to a degree, dangerous and fucked up but - even the dying assassin who was trained to be one from the age of six or the scientist who worked on a virus to control an entire alien virus or the dude grown in a tank by a crazy frog alien – no matter how much guilt and remorse they feel, they ultimately own their past, their decisions and their badassery.

Not so Subject Zero. What powers she has were given to her by the people who experimented on her. And all the bad shit she did in her life was not truly her choice, and not something for which she can be held accountable, because she was impelled to it by the damage done to her. (Again, check out Dan’s article

The Victim Dilemma

for more on this) What you’re left with is a completely unthreatening female pseudo-badass.

This is all bad enough but it’s when you start to get into the sexual side of things that you move from cluelessly offensive, and into really really fucking disgustingly offensive. I will admit Subject Zero is kind of hot, and, again, it’s potentially a good thing to have an attractive female character who isn’t conventionally feminine in appearance – although, again, it’s all trying slightly too hard for it to really be effective. And I do kind of wish she’d put a proper shirt on. Having your nipples hanging out is dangerous if you're encountering regular cross fire. Anyway, you can bone Subject Zero in two ways... so to speak, but only if you're a man. Despite having done girls in her past, because it’s a turn on for the male gamer, I suspect, she doesn’t do girls now – because, y’know, bulldykes just aren’t a turn on for the male gamer. And although it’s perfectly reasonable for Subject Zero not to be an equal opportunities bonee in principle, in practice it means she’s still further defined by her status as a male fantasy.

The 'renegade' way is to get it on with Subject Zero is to shaft her against a bulkhead

as soon as the opportunity arises

– she will then discard you because you've proven yourself just another using manslut. The disturbing implication of this is, therefore, that Subject Zero doesn’t actually like sex – otherwise she’d be perfectly happy to keep fucking you, in this cheerful, no strings attached way. Again, although it’s perfectly reasonable that someone with a history of abuse might not enjoy sex and use it as a form of self-harm, the game isn’t actually engaging with this. Subject Zero’s promiscuity, like her badassery, is just another lie because the game simply can’t get its head round the notion that a woman could enjoy casual sex.

The paragon way is to pursue a relationship with her, whereupon she comes to your cabin aaaand

check this shit out

, and try not barf.

Ye Gods. I know the romances in Mass Effect are there to pander to our fantasies (mine just happens to be Garrus Vakarian all the way) but this is absolutely the most destructive and repulsive male fantasy there is. The supposedly 'strong' woman who is actually broken and helpless and just needs a male shoulder to cry on. Because, yes, a woman who weeps while you stick it to her is a real turn on. Don't get me wrong, I understand this fantasy. We all want to save women, especially from the cruelty of other men (see

nice guy syndrome

) but at least I'm self-aware enough to acknowledge it has absolutely nothing to do with women, and is incredibly, unspeakably unhealthy.

Also, just look at the way this scene is animated. You have Subject Zero (not so badass now, eh?) trembling, weeping and wordless, acknowledging that Shepard has a deeper understanding of her needs than she does, admitting tacitly that the person she has become is little more than a façade for her truly vulnerable, properly feminine self. And then she lies down, passive and submissive, her arms stretched over her head while Shepard heals her with his mighty mancock.

Eeeeew!!!

(Just as contrast, do check out

the consummation scene with Miranda

, one of the other female options. I think video-game sex scenes tend to look a bit ridiculous, as the animation isn’t quite up to it, but this is quite fun and sexy. They power dynamic is balanced, Miranda is clearly an active and willing participant, and there’s nothing freakier going on than two healthy, consenting, adult human beings having a good time together).

But Subject Zero isn't a person at all – she was created by the men at the facility, broken by those same men, used by men across the galaxy and ultimately healed again by a man. And by the looks of it, she still doesn't even seem to like sex. In short, they've created a character whose sole purpose in the game is to make men feel good about themselves, without actually threatening or challenging them in any way. What’s hotter than a female badass? A female badass who isn’t actually a badass. What’s hotter than a highly sexed woman? A woman who isn’t actually highly sexed. What’s better than a strong woman? A vulnerable woman who needs a man to hold her. It sickens me. It actually sickens me.

I can take the sexual fantasies romance options in games seem to be offering, but the emotional ones – especially when they invoke the most repulsive aspects of Nice Guy Syndrome – have gone beyond disturbing.

Themes:

Computer Games

Sci-fi / Fantasy

Minority Warrior

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~Comments (

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Arthur B

at 13:22 on 2010-02-02Awesome rant. But are you really being a Minority Warrior if you're a woman complaining about a game's portrayal of women? I thought the point of MWing was to leap to the defence of a group you're not actually a member of against the vile iniquities of your own demographic...

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Wardog

at 14:21 on 2010-02-02Arthur, are you saying I can't be a Minority Warrior because I'm a woman?!

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Arthur B

at 14:36 on 2010-02-02I'm saying that, if the defining trait of a Minority Warrior is speaking on behalf of demographics you don't belong to, then you can't be a Minority Warrior whilst speaking for your own demographic. :)

On the other hand, my Minority Warrior instincts say that anyone who self-defines as a Minority Warrior should be recognised as one.

But now I've ended up being a Minority Warrior talking on behalf of Minority Warriors, so I can't be a Minority Warrior, so then I must be because I'm talking on behalf of them, but I can't be because I am one, but I can't be because I'm talking on behalf of them, but I can't be because I am one, but I can't be because I'm talking on behalf of them, but I can't be because I am one, but I can't be because I'm talking on behalf of them, but I can't be because I am one, but I can't be because I'm talking on behalf of them, but I can't be...

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http://webcomcon.blogspot.com/

at 17:28 on 2010-02-02Hi guys, first time posting on FerretBrain! I love your articles.

Anyway, I just beat Mass Effect 2 for the first time not long ago, and did in fact pursue the romance with Subject Zero. Looking back, there's really no way to view Jack than the typical Whedonchick, the super badass killer who was secretly traumatized and needs a good man to keep her up. Compare Jack with River.

There's also the comparisons between Jack and Kaiden, from ME1. Kaiden wasn't around in my ME2 save, but in retrospect they've got a bit of a similar backstory. Both were traumatized at a biotics training facility, Jack more than Kaiden, and both ended up killing to get away, Jack more than Kaiden. I'm not sure how much I can say about their comparison other than to note that nobody seemed to like Kaiden at all, although that may have been because his VA was the dude who voiced Carth Onasi.

I'm inclined to cut BioWare some slack for this, since it seems that literally every other female in Mass Effect is pretty much independent, proactive, and self-defined. The other party members in ME2 definitely are: Tali, Miranda, and Samara are all achievers with independent goals who have had tons of success without needing to deal with Shepard. To an extent, Tali and Miranda are defined by being their father's daughters (Miranda much more so than Tali, who is a pretty independently active woman), but they still do tons of stuff on their own, of their own volition. There's also Liara, who is happily the head of her own intelligence agency, doing things for her own reasons. Ashley, these days promoted to high command and the overseer of the entire military branch of a colony.

Even the secondary characters tend to fare pretty well: Emily Wong, Nassana Dantius, Shai'ara, the leader of the crime syndicate you meet in the Presidium in ME1, Matriarch Benezia (who, despite being mindraped by Sovereign, deliberately chose to infiltrate Saren's army and knew the risks that she would end up being indoctrinated; she wasn't just some random chick that Sovereign subjugated because puppet shows, hot)... Generally the women in Mass Effect tend to be pretty strong and very rarely defined as "someone's sister" or "someone's wife" (cf. Warcraft). There is the doctor from ME1, a somewhat archaic Damsel In Distress, but still. Most of the women in the game who get screentime tend to be pretty well-presented.

(Unless this entire analysis has just been my phallocentric manocratic thinking convincing me that the legions of sexual playthings paraded before me in a tentacular orgasmic rape simulator are actually fairly independent, well-characterized women. The curse of a minority warrior!)

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at 22:36 on 2010-02-02Is it just me or did they base Jack on the character of the same name from Chronicles of Riddick?? Even how the game unfolds during the mission on Purgatory, parallels Riddick and Jack's escape from "Crematoria" (prison colony/world).

Your interpretation of Jack reminds me of one of the quotes from Bioware's other character, "Morrigan", from their recent game "Dragon Age: Origins":

"Men are always ready to believe two things about a woman - that she is weak and that she finds him attractive."

Your fixation on gender is rather telling. I could care less that a man "heals" or "saves" Jack, or if a woman does. The paragon scene between them is about love. Love requires you to compromise pride and ego to attain something greater than yourself. What I see are two people engaged in a tender and emotional moment.

I could care less about lust or casual sex. And speaking of strong women, it takes a strong woman to truly give herself completely to intimacy, and the same of course is required of the man, to have a truly loving relationship. Even the word "relationship" implies "more than yourself". Casual sex is entirely selfish, and the preference of the weak willed.

On the contrary I believe it's a testament to Jack strength of will and character, to be so intimate with Shepard, after all she has been through. She's learned (and said in some of the dialogue) that people only act out of selfish concerns, and are not to be trusted.

But then it seems believable given the person Shepard proves himself to be (through paragon actions) and that he is an exceptional individual; peerless... saving the galaxy more than once.

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Wardog

at 23:06 on 2010-02-02@ Webcomcon, hello and welcome to Fb. Thank you for the comment. I suspect Kaiden was universally disliked because he was a whiny bitch and, honestly, game mechanically rubbish - it's amazing how much being a strong addition to your party can make you inclined to really dig someone. I actually liked Carth very much though - and have nothing against the VA.

I will agree that Bioware have done better with the other women in the game - I like Miranda, I adore Tali ... and, well, Samara is a big breasted dominatrix but at least she's not weak. Also from a character rather gendered perspective, I didn't quite *buy* Liara's shift from naive sheltered scientist to cold hard information broker.

I think what bugs me about Subject Zero is the lack of self-awareness in the portrayal - I genuinely believe it's a distasteful fantasy to indulge. Also the fact that it's tied into the morality system is just plain creepy - it's 'renegade' to have sex with a woman when she offers it, but 'paragon' to bone her while she weeps? EEEWWW! EWWWWW! EWWWW!! I think it plays into the idea tha sex is something women give to me to reward them ... rather than something that women want, and can enjoy, on their own terms.

Hello, err, me.yahoo.com/a/2Yqe00sizOcIYBx41yITkDVVKJA_7g--#6c7d4.

Your fixation on gender is rather telling

Telling in what way?

Love requires you to compromise pride and ego to attain something greater than yourself.

Like fuck it does.

What I see are two people engaged in a tender and emotional moment.

Really? Because what I see is a repulsive borderline misogynistic rape fantasy. If a woman started crying when I fucked her, I'd stop. I certainly wouldn't find it some kind of turn on.

And speaking of strong women, it takes a strong woman to truly give herself completely to intimacy, and the same of course is required of the man, to have a truly loving relationship.

And what, precisely, is Shepard giving up or compromising in this scene? It opens with her telling him he was right about everything. Also yours is a rather heterocentric depication of an ideal relationship isn't it?

Casual sex is entirely selfish, and the preference of the weak willed.

And arbitrary judgements are the refuge of the morally and intellectually cowardly.

But then it seems believable given the person Shepard proves himself to be (through paragon actions) and that he is an exceptional individual; peerless... saving the galaxy more than once.

Yes, heaven forefend she actually experience sexual desire.

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at 00:06 on 2010-02-03It's a Randian anti-feminist ideal. The greatest possible exemplar of humanity is the powerful male; the greatest possible exemplar of FEMININITY is a woman who willfully "romantically surrenders" to such a man. Indeed, rape is actually the most legitimate form possible of love, because it's the most authentic representation of man's intrinsic superiority.

Another woman who comes off pretty well: Aria T'loak. Forgot her the first time around.

If I have any interest in Subject Zero, it's because I deliberately mis-read the character and imagine that she really IS coming to the realization that she actually WASN'T the worst off at the Cerberus facility and that most of her misery IS self-inflicted. It's a character arc where she finally realizes that the most destructive thing in her life has been her own refusal to engage with other people relationally, and Shepard finally helps her realize that. It's ba-a-arely suggested by the actual text of ME2.

====

Since I can't reply to the Playpen, mind if I may a few comments on that GamaSutra article? I think it's rather accurate, personally. I'm also of the belief that a more complex game is not necessarily a more interesting game or (most crucially) a more fun game. With Mass Effect, most of its complexity came in the form of rubbish loot that the game vomited up continuously, which was impossible to manage with its complex inventory. The secondary source of complexity was the gigantic skill trees each character had.

There are definitely two options: Refine the systems so that they're complex AND ENTERTAINING, or discard the systems so that you're left with the good stuff you had before. Personally, since I have no interest whatsoever in managing inventory, I'm glad they chucked the "here, receive eight billion copies of the Kolyat VII Sniper Rifle! try to find time to sell all the gear you'll never bother to equip!" system. It might have been interesting to see it upgraded into something Borderlands-esque, but meh.

I'm ambivalent on the reduced complexity in the skill trees. One benefit to the simplified skill trees is that different characters, even ones with the same specialty, are pretty distinct mechanically. Jack in combat doesn't really play like Samara, and Zaeed and Jacob are pretty distinct too. Unlike in ME1, where a Soldier Shepard and Ashley were basically identical, except Shepard was always better because she got more skill points. On the other hand, having tons of options to build your character is neat.

I play more shooters than WRPGs anyway. I really appreciated ME2's refined cover system. It feels infinitely more natural and useful than ME1's, although it's still not as good as the cover in Gears or Uncharted.

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Wardog

at 09:38 on 2010-02-03

It's a Randian anti-feminist ideal

Oh God, it's been such a long time since I've looked at / thought about Rand, but, yes, you're right. There's a kind of romantic re-interpretation of this you can find in early romance novels, when female sexual desire was still something borderline inexpressible. You get a lot of psuedo-rape, awakening to true self yadda yadda stuff, but mainly as a cover so the heroine can get her rocks off without feeling guilty about it.

Another woman who comes off pretty well: Aria T'loak.

Oh, yes, she's awesome. It was really nice to see an Asari not being a nameless merc, lapdancer or a touchy-feely sex counsellor for once. Also I should probably emphasise I don't - in general - have an issue with the portrayal of women in ME. Just Subject Zero; and I was initally quite interested in the character myself because, although there was that 'trying too hard' air about her, I did quite like her, because she was hot, direct and well voice-acted. I thought the visit to her facility very nearly came off well - but then the whole thing degenerated into ICK.

With ref to the Gamasutra article - I think the issue is that a lot of the things ME II has discarded are considered endemic to the cRPG format/genre. I entirely agree with you about inventory mangaement - I want to play the game I've bought, not some tedious tetris-alike whereby I'm juggling resources from one box to another as efficiently as possible. But I think for a lot of people having an inventory that needs managing is as much a part of a cRPG as sprawling skill trees or having to visit a merchant every 10 minutes to offload your crap.

For me, I think a good computer games makes you feel like what you're suppoesd to be. I liked the pared down approach of MEII because all the stuff that made me feel I was playing a computer game (fucking inventory management) has gone and all the stuff that makes me feel like a bad ass sci-fi chick has been amped up. But I think the Gamasutra is right - because of this, it's genuinely debatable whether MEII is an RPG any more.

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Arthur B

at 10:04 on 2010-02-03The inventory management thing is especially odd when, as far as I'm aware, nobody really considers encumbrance rules, which would be their equivalent in tabletop RPGs, to be a necessary or vital component of a tabletop RPG system; I'm aware of several which don't have such a thing.

To be fair, with traditional RPGs you really ought to be able to rely on the participants not abusing this and having their characters running around carrying an obscene amount of kit. But on the other hand, JRPGs quietly gave characters inventories of nigh-unlimited size a long time ago. And I suspect some CRPG inventory systems were developed mainly to keep the size of saved games down, rather than being based on any real consideration of how much characters could actually carry... and have been retained, long past the point where save game size really matters (or at least, past the point where what's in your inventory is going to take up more than a tiny fraction of your saved game).

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at 15:00 on 2010-02-03Base-building and resource management is endemic to the RTS format, and grinding is endemic to the MMO format. While I'm not going to say with absolute certainty that those things are always lame (I've had fun building bases in Earth 2150), I am generally grateful when you get games that pare away that bullshit and give you something actually interesting.

And I suspect some CRPG inventory systems were developed mainly to keep the size of saved games down, rather than being based on any real consideration of how much characters could actually carry

Makes sense, especially when you look at the pencil-and-paper parallels. One obvious difference you have to consider when drawing analogies between CRPGs and tabletop RPGs is the absence of a GM. In Dungeons and Dragons, the dungeon master can just say "knock it off, you moron, you can't carry the entire contents of the dungeon with you" without needing any explicit rules about how you can only carry one hundred and forty pounds per point of Strength modifier.

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Melissa G.

at 15:09 on 2010-02-03I think it would be awesome if instead of a message popping up saying, "You can't carry any more in your backpack", the game message did say, "Knock if off, moron, you can't carry the entire contents of the dungeon with you". Perhaps followed with a "Greedy bastard. Isn't it bad enough that you're robbing corpses!" :-)

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Jamie Johnston

at 21:48 on 2010-02-03

Arthur, are you saying I can't be a Minority Warrior because I'm a woman?!

In the immortal words of Eric Idle,

'Don't you oppress me!'

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at 19:03 on 2010-02-04Some responses to the ME2 article Kyra posted:

Most of the actual criticisms seem fair enough. It would be nice if the levels weren't so clearly delineated between "combat area" and "walking-through area". It would be nice if the mission structure were changed up a bit. His suggestions generally seem reasonable.

Then he gets to the actual analysis, and it's like "This game basically blows and I can't believe anyone is dumb enough to like it, GOOD JOB bioware for blinding all the sheeple and dumbing down your game." Seems like he, too, is happily trumping up a game for the sake of an extreme byline.

It would also be really nice if people could criticize games without calling it "dumbed down". It's been part of the descriptive vocabulary for Deus Ex 2, Mass Effect 2, Modern Warfare 2, Bioshock, and really virtually any game that's gone from a PC background onto a console. Even in the case of Mass Effect, that started life on a console. Even if I buy into the idea that a more complex and difficult game is necessarily a better one, the overtly hostile elitism is incredibly distasteful.

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Rude Cyrus

at 19:38 on 2010-02-04I’m really enjoying Mass Effect 2 so far, and I agree with Kyra’s criticisms. Jack always rubbed me the wrong way, perhaps because she came off as dangerously psychotic, as opposed to, say, Grunt, who was merely antisocial. As creepy as the scene between Shepard and Jack was, I’m not sure you can call it a sex scene, considering they kept their clothes on the entire time. :P

Anyway, my new favorite character has to be Mordin: he initially comes off as a mad scientist-type, but he’s actually quite nuanced. One of the stranger (and more hilarious) moments of the game comes when he makes an offhand remark about singing in a Gilbert and Sullivan opera. When you ask about this, he launches into the Mass Effect version of the Major General song. When it was finished, I sat there for about 12 minutes and muttered “what the fuck” over and over.

As for the article posted in the Playpen -- yeah, I don’t like it, but I’d like to address one of the criticisms: in the “Bring Down the Sky” DLC for the first game, there’s an instance where the aliens do speak their own language, and a codex entry informs us that languages are translated via a subdermal implant, or something like that.

Oh, and I agree that the Paragon/Renegade choices are much smoother.

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at 19:42 on 2010-02-04Mordin is great. I was totally fascinated by his personal attempts to wrestle with the morality of the genophage. Plus he's just fun to listen to.

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Wardog

at 21:17 on 2010-02-04Mordin is fantastic - I'm looking forward to his operatic interlude.

Which reminds me. Amused: did you see the advert for all-Elcor Hamlet?

Garrus is still my homie though. I have no idea what the magic is but he's my favourite video game character ever. Possibly it's the buddy cop movie feel, or his voice acting, or the fact I can now I get it on with him (neither of us crying) but, yeah, Garrus for President!

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Rude Cyrus

at 22:03 on 2010-02-04The game also has, I think, a single example of an actual female krogan. It's easy to miss, but I was still floored.

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Wardog

at 09:31 on 2010-02-05Zomg! WHERE?!!

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Rude Cyrus

at 20:49 on 2010-02-05On Tuchanka, in the shaman's room, is a krogan named Natorth. She talks about being an envoy to the female clans and basically threatens you every time you prompt her. Like I said, easy to miss.

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at 22:24 on 2010-02-05

..there seems to be no understanding of how far are we meant to buy Subject Zero's rhetoric, how far she buys it herself, and to what extent it is rhetoric. I like the second trailer more than the first because she seems genuinely psychotic and dangerous – which puts her on par with most of the rest of the cast - as opposed to the first trailer which depicts her as somebody ultimately fearful and pretending.

The fact that she has killed many people and has no reservation of killing, completely disproves any notion that her killer persona is a pretense. Who cares why she kills, she does, and that alone makes her dangerous and worthy of respect.

I can understand that you don't like her character, but don't try and belittle her. You'd just be underestimating her and that would get you killed. (If she was a real person..since we're comparing her to a real person)

I finally played through the game as male Shepard, so I've seen a different side of Jack (initially I finished the game as the female Shepard).

Maybe the one thing you and others are forgetting is that Shepard is a peerless warrior and leader. Savior of the galaxy, more than once. It only makes sense that Jack would have more respect for him than any other person in her life. And ultimately fall in love. I also imagine she views him as non-threatening, which fosters her attraction to him.

I will concede that I was surprised in

how

she falls in love with Shepard. I suppose for the sake of brevity in the game, the entire process happens in a few scenes. She opens up to him far too quickly.

..but this is absolutely the most destructive and repulsive male fantasy there is. The supposedly 'strong' woman who is actually broken and helpless and just needs a male shoulder to cry on. Because, yes, a woman who weeps while you stick it to her is a real turn on. Don't get me wrong, I understand this fantasy. We all want to save women, especially from the cruelty of other men (see nice guy syndrome) but at least I'm self-aware enough to acknowledge it has absolutely nothing to do with women, and is incredibly, unspeakably unhealthy.

I could care less about what fantasies people have. It's when you allow fantasies to negatively affect/interfere with your life, is when it becomes problematic.

Also, when it comes to saving women or being protective of them, I think it has more to do with a subconscious (and irrational) perception of women as our daughters. Which would explain why men often perceive women as weak. The protective feeling also has no sexual motivation, at least for me, which also corroborates that theory. Weakness in a woman provokes a feeling of tenderness from me, as I see it as an opportunity to show kindness.

Oh and, I never saw her weeping when they were kissing. She only teared up once, initially, after speaking to Shepard. And I can't imagine they were having intercourse either, with their clothes on. Forgive me for saying but that seems like an odd inference. Maybe I'm old fashioned but in that situation, and just in general, I expect a little more foreplay involved before sexual intercourse.

The 'renegade' way is to get it on with Subject Zero is to shaft her against a bulkhead as soon as the opportunity arises – she will then discard you because you've proven yourself just another using manslut. The disturbing implication of this is, therefore, that Subject Zero doesn’t actually like sex – otherwise she’d be perfectly happy to keep fucking you, in this cheerful, no strings attached way.

Or maybe she hoped for more from him and was disappointed. And maybe she feels that as much as she could use him for sex, he would also be using her, which that renegade action made abundantly clear. It also says a lot about what Shepard thinks of her, if he is more concerned with screwing her body than getting to know the person standing in front of him. Maybe she realizes this insult, consciously or not, and feels compelled to deny him the pleasure of sex even if it means not gratifying herself.

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https://me.yahoo.com/a/2Yqe00sizOcIYBx41yITkDVVKJA_7g--#6c7d4

at 22:38 on 2010-02-05The paragon romance scene also goes to show that you never truly know someone. Often people keep their true feelings and their true self hidden. Until they meet the right person(s).

I also don't consider what happened between them to define Jack. It's a far stretch to say that one moment contradicts everything she has done in her life, or who she is.

I wouldn't consider a misanthrope, who found one person worthy of trust and respect, to immediately find all people worthy of some trust and respect. Jack is still the same killer, but as I hinted at before, compromise is intrinsic to love. I think she would always remain distrusting and hostile to people, unless in conflict with their relationship (such as Shepard's friends). I think this is just her fundamental nature, and some things a person can never change about themselves.

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Arthur B

at 22:48 on 2010-02-05

Who cares why she kills, she does, and that alone makes her dangerous and worthy of respect.

Because if you're a killer, you can't also be wracked with doubt and fear.

Also, when it comes to saving women or being protective of them, I think it has more to do with a subconscious (and irrational) perception of women as our daughters.

Because being paternalistic is so much better than being horny.

Maybe she realizes this insult, consciously or not, and feels compelled to deny him the pleasure of sex even if it means not gratifying herself.

Because women are the gatekeepers of sex who ration it out to men if they feel that the men are deserving.

Wow.

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Wardog

at 23:52 on 2010-02-05

(If she was a real person..since we're comparing her to a real person)

I'm not, I'm analysing her, and what her character implies, as a literary construct.

I could care less about what fantasies people have. It's when you allow fantasies to negatively affect/interfere with your life, is when it becomes problematic.

I refer you to your own comment here: "Weakness in a woman provokes a feeling of tenderness from me, as I see it as an opportunity to show kindness." It's kind of sad you need women to show 'weakness' in order to be kind to them; and that you need to use the vulnerability of others to make yourself feel better.

nd I can't imagine they were having intercourse either, with their clothes on. Forgive me for saying but that seems like an odd inference. Maybe I'm old fashioned but in that situation, and just in general, I expect a little more foreplay involved before sexual intercourse.

Err, lies on top of her, begins kissing her face and neck - and then it fades to black. I think that indicates forthcoming sexoring.

Again, this is entirely based on the notion that bad men want sex whereas woman want "something more." There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting physical gratification - it's not "an insult" between two consenting adults. Sex is not something men want and women give - it's an act of mutuality, whether it is based on desire or desire and love.

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Rami

at 06:16 on 2010-02-06

I don't know about you, but the idea of a dude who is so awesome that women's brains melt into loving submission around him sounds like a pretty dysfunctional portrayal of women in general. Worship != Love, y'know.

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Arthur B

at 14:28 on 2010-02-06Even if we take a very generous reading of me.yahoo.com's statement and interpret it as meaning that through his example Shepard inspires respect and loyalty in his/her allies (which isn't completely out there), there's still a

major

difference between respect and love. Love requires respect if it's going to function. But respect does not inevitably lead to love. People don't exist on a relationship continuum from "hatred" to "bonking".

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Jamie Johnston

at 21:35 on 2010-02-06Another indication (if we need another) that there's a categorical difference is that it's generally considered possible and healthy to admire and respect people you've never met, whereas (romantically) loving someone you've never met would be widely regarded as unhealthy or impossible.

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http://ibmiller.livejournal.com/

at 16:15 on 2010-02-07Sorry, random thought, but James Cameron's The Terminator seems built around the idea that loving someone you've never met it totally awesome. But then, I thought the first Terminator was really, really, um, dumb.

Now, admittedly, I am on rather a different ideological spectrum when it comes to gender issues than most of fb (e.g. I like Twilight, though not uncritically). Just want to say that before I comment further, so there's no confusion.

However, I really like the paragon romance with Jack (though I'm not sure I'd really want to play it - I like Tali more). While I see some of the problems of the victim syndrome, I'm not sure if it's necessarily a misogynistic impulse. I'm not really seeing how Jack (who is basically a bald River Tam, without the schizophrenia) learning to love is that different from, say, Katsa from Graceling (ducks). Both are extremely good at killing, both learn to open up emotionally, and both do so to men.

I'm not sure how I regard the idea that the tears are supposed to be a turn on. I don't think that's my reaction to them, as I saw them more as Jack finally trusting someone else instead of humiliation. However, I do see how loathsome and utterly vile nice guy syndrome is. I'm just not sure that this situation really fits that category.

Finally, I think that the Miranda scene is rather stupid - but then, I think Miranda is really, really annoying. I much prefer Tali or (from the first game) Ashley (though I could see how the latter is also open to similar charges, as her whole "I never felt good enough" backstory seems similar to the elements of Jack's backstory found objectionable).

(Side note: where I hang out, there's actually huge numbers of people who liked Kaiden - most of whom also liked Carth. Most of them are 30-40 year old female gamers, I think. Clarifying statement: I hope that my classification of those who like Carth doesn't dig me deeper in the hole I've no doubt I'm already in. I'm afraid it does, though. Nuts. Addendum: I really hope I don't come across quite as a completely arrogant idiot.)

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http://ibmiller.livejournal.com/

at 16:30 on 2010-02-07Hmmm, sorry for double posting, but I should clarify - my purpose in commenting is not that I have an axe to grind, but that I'm genuinely curious - I really don't see how Katsa and Jack are that different.

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Arthur B

at 18:10 on 2010-02-07Hmmm, the way I saw The Terminator I thought that Kyle was sort of boyishly obsessed with Sarah before he met her, but once they met there was in fact a sufficient spark which led to them falling in love. His confession is, after all, a confession, that comes about only once they have known each other for a while and he is opening up emotionally to her and she to him. His first words to her are, after all, "come with me if you want to live", not "I've loved you from afar for years! Come with me, your Time Stalker!"

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Rude Cyrus

at 07:48 on 2010-02-08I've finished ME2, and I haved to admit I have some mixed feelings about it, along with a few worries. First, it feels rather sparse in comparison to the first game -- the structure is basically "recruit people, do loyalty missions, do 3 other main plot missions, the end." It's surprisingly linear compared to its predecessor. Second, I'm worried that ME3 is going to be the same way. Bioware is trying to release ME3 in 2011, which is a surprisingly short development time, considering the first game came out in 2007. I fear they're going the Matrix/Pirates of the Caribbean route by developing both games at the same time. As you know the Matrix/PotC sequels were, well, kind of shit. I don't want that to happen with this franchise. I seriously love it.

Or maybe I'm just being paranoid.

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Wardog

at 16:35 on 2010-02-11@Ibmiller

Don't worry, I won't go off the deep-end :P

On the subject of Jack versus River ... I guess ... look at the series rather than the movie which attempted to tie up lose-ends in a rather unsatisfactory way, I would argue that the difference between Jack and River is that River is comprehensively broken in a way that seems unfixable. I mean, Simon looks after her, yes, but in a way that is delicately and ambiguously portrayed as not exactly being good for both of them. Nobody putting his cock in her and encouraging her to cry will make River 'better.' Nor is there ever any suggestion that what River needs to make her better is to have good ol girly cry about it, and rest her head on the chest of a strong man. (I love Firefly, by the way, River and Simon break my heart)

Also I think the difference between Katsa and Jack is that even though Katsa has issues with emotional (and physical) intimacy and has done some terribly violent things, her strength is unquestionably her own, unlike Jack. Katsa is badass because she is badass, not because she is broken.

Also I'm not sure comparing MEII and Graceling is entirely fair because they're such different mediums but I'll just re-quote my favourite line in the entirety of, well, romance actually:

He laughed “You may hunt for my food and beat me every time we fight, and protect me when we’re attacked, if you like. I’ll thank you for it.” “But I’d never need to protect you, if we were attacked. And I doubt you need me to do your hunting, either.” “True. But you’re better than I am, Katsa. And it doesn’t humiliate me.” He fed a branch to the fire. “It humbles me. But it doesn’t humiliate me.”

There's no element of this mutuality between Jack and the PC - Jack cries and opens herself to intimacy (and screwing), the PC doesn't. Of course, this is entirely a problem of the medium. Romances in computer games can only work in one direction, it's a big part of their limitation as a type of storytelling (although not necessarily as a type of interaction).

I'm probably not expressing myself very well - I am not against the idea of a character like Jack coming to express emotional imtimacy towards the PC, I think it's the juxtaposition of vulnerability / femininity / submission that kind of squicks me out. (I'm not against those things either by the way but I think they have to be explicit and acknowledged). There is no reason that Jack couldn't express her vulnerability and then for the characters to have ... you know ... rather less dodgy, weepy, violiny sex.

Actually if you compare it to, for example, the Tali scene it doesn't hold up well. I mean, Tali is clearly nervous (adorably nervous) and she babbles away until the PC reassures her. She's clearly quite emotionally vulnerable here as well - but when the PC removes her helmet she does this beautiful little thing where she's talking away and she just pounces on him and they kiss their way to silence. It's a lovely lovely little scene, because Tali is clearly entirely herself, healthy, consenting and *totally into you in a physical, sexual way*. Rock on.

I should probably have used Tali rather than Miranda - as I don't like Miranda either (hello ... personality pls?) but I wanted to compare human-against-human.

I also liked Ashley a lot, for what it's worth, and Carth. Does this officially make me 40 now? ;) I don't know why Kaiden didn't work since they're quite similar characters and even have the same VA. There's just something fundamentally decent about Carth, even if he does keep whinging about his dead wife.

And, no, you don't come across as an arrogant idiot - I suspect this whole article makes me sound like I'm frothingly obsessed with gender/sex issues.

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Wardog

at 16:39 on 2010-02-11@Cyrus

I kind of stalled at the end of the loyalty missions - I know exactly what you mean about the sense of linearity. Tbh, linear stories don't bother me but it's a little bit *too* all happening in one room-ish. I remember the first time I landed on the Citadel my tiny mind was completely blown by this vast vast place with all the aliens in it. But there's nothing like that to compare in MEII. I mean Omega is basically just a bar and some shops. There's no sense of this sprawling underworld of crime. I can't believe that such a vast galaxy feels so dinky.

I guess it's problematic since they're essentially burdening themselves with huge trailing tendrils of story as they go along but ... but ... I miss the vastness of spaaaaace.

I will finish it though because, like you, I am still crazily in love with the games.

And also with Garrus.

And also with Mordin who might just be the best video game character EVER. I love his moral complexity.

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https://me.yahoo.com/a/2Yqe00sizOcIYBx41yITkDVVKJA_7g--#6c7d4

at 19:27 on 2010-02-11

Err, lies on top of her, begins kissing her face and neck - and then it fades to black. I think that indicates forthcoming sexoring.

That's the beauty of "fade to black". And the other story elements in the game. It's "open ended", leaving the viewer to see

what they want to see

. How each person interprets a situation is very telling of their thoughts and feelings.

I didn't see that scene having enough passion to make it reasonable to assume they had sex. Maybe all they did was kiss and hug each other. She was distraught, after all, which as you said is a strange emotion to have while consenting to intercourse... And yet you made that assumption. Am I the only one that thinks that a man and woman can just "cuddle" and not require intercourse?

If they did have sex, the scene afterward, shouldn't they have their clothes OFF? Or at the very least be partially nude and covered in a blanket, to imply they had sex?

I said nothing of worship. Jack has a problem trusting anyone, and believes that everyone ultimately take interest in her or uses her, for their own selfish reasons. She even describes her feelings about the last time she fell in love. I think because of the

person

Shepard is, she is more inclined to open up to him emotionally, and out of all the people on that ship, it's for that reason that Shepard seems the most likely person she would fall in love with. Of course, not that I expect her to fall in love with him, I'm just saying it makes sense that she does.

Maybe she doesn't discard him or consider him a "manslut", nor is it evidence that she doesn't like sex. I think that when a person engages in casual sex, the intimate nature of the act can change the way each person feels about the other, namely their physical and emotional compatibility.

Also you assume that he would consent to having sex with her on more than one occasion. Maybe he just wanted to have a fling with her and really pursue someone else, like Miranda. Of course the limitations of the game wouldn't allow this, but it still seems plausible.

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http://ibmiller.livejournal.com/

at 19:55 on 2010-02-11Whew, I'm glad I didn't offend too badly. Thank you for such a thoughtful and helpful response - that does help clarify my questions.

I see what you're saying about River, though I'm curious how this explanation and contrast with Jack's storyline fits with River's only made better through her brother (a man's) actions (in series, at least, though in the movie it was sort of a reverse fridge thing), and her frequent crying in said man's arms (albeit certainly not sexual unless you really, really love squick). I agree that the sex thing seems a bit out of place if looked at as the actual healing action - though I think it's mostly an "awkward placement" thing (or can be), since I think it happens late in the game, and they may have been pressed for where else to put the two events (healing and sex).

I'm confused as the reason Katsa and Jack being badass is important - it isn't a choice on either of their part. It's just that Katsa is born with it, and Jack is experimented on. I actually have problems with the whole "superpowered empowerment" thing, since it's terribly unhelpful if you're trying to say something about the "real world" (and I think it's been analyzed on fb at least once before). I mean, even guys don't get much help from thinking "Well, Spider-man can cling to walls, so I will be a good dude and save people," so why would women say "Well, Buffy/River/Jack/Katsa have a demon/experiments/Grace and can defend themselves, so I will be a strong woman and hit people." Doesn't seem to make sense to me.

I think you highlight the real problem or dissonance between interpretations with your comments on medium problems. I personally would read and play the Jack romance with a lot of imagined scenes (that would be pretty unnecessary for the plot and game mechanics, so I don't think it's really a weakness on the game's part that they're not there) in which the main character also opens up (not only to Jack, but other characters) and is vulnerable. After all, one of the reasons I love BioWare games is that you need party members - I'm not a huge fan of FPS or other single-player games. I like the "interaction" (plus I got fed up with "the Chosen One" trope a long time ago).

However, I agree that the Tali romance plot and scenes rock. But I think the Jack ones aren't necessarily as misogynist - at least you don't have to play them as if they were. But then, I also like to handicap myself in RPG to "roleplay." Like playing KotOR with knives or pistols, just because, and then making up a backstory as to why, when the game is clearly geared towards lightsabers.

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http://rebootfromstart.livejournal.com/

at 19:45 on 2010-02-14

If they did have sex, the scene afterward, shouldn't they have their clothes OFF?

Just a little point here: you don't necessarily need to take your clothes off to have sex.

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Arthur B

at 11:15 on 2010-02-15Also, it's worth pointing out that "fade to black" has had a fairly consistent history of being used to indicate that sexual shenanigans of some nature are about to take place. Yes, it can be used to create a deliberate ambiguity. But it is just as often used - and in the sort of context we're talking about here, is almost

always

used - not to create ambiguity, but to quite unambiguously indicate that sex has occurred without actually showing it.

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Wardog

at 16:29 on 2010-02-15@Ibmiller

I hope you don't think it's a copout that I respond generally rather specifically to individual points - I guess I have real problems with the whole broken / bad-ass spectrum of female characters. I mean it's partially tied in with the Empowerment From Disempowerment aka Victim Dilemma that Dan writes about but I think it just ties in quite awkwardly with notions of strong women and their place in the world. I mean one of the reasons I really loved early season Buffy (before Joss Whedon got bitten by the feminist bug) is that early season Buffy is a genuinely strong female character - in that she kicks vampire ass AND simultaneously is a pretty blonde girl who wants a boyfriend and to be a cheerleader. Of course it's partially a joke (incongruity alert! this small blonde girl is KICK ASS!) but until the show went barging down A HERO MUST TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND MAKE SACRIFICES AND OH BY THE WAY BUFFY IS TOTALLY WRECKED boulevard both aspects of her life had validity... and often you spent the episodes wondering if she would make the cheerleading squad ... oh and also kill the bad guy. I think that's a nice combination, personally. And, again, the thing I really like about early Buffy was that her powers, like getting bitten by a radioactive spider, were just something she had (before she had to get in touch with da spirits of de first slayer or whatever crack that was).

And the different between the broken badass empowered woman versus, say, Spiderman is that although Spiderman struggles to balance being a super-hero and being a normal guy, there's never any question that if he didn't have a moral duty to save people he'd be *fine*. The problems he faces in everyday life are not because, like, he's totally wrecked by his experiences with the spider but because he has chosen a life of ultimate self-sacrfice. You don't doubt for a moment that, if only he could, Mary Jane would be lucky to have him. Whereas with broken bad-ass chicks that which makes them bad-ass is also that which makes them non-fuctional as a person or, implied, as a woman.

I genuinely think the Jack Love Arc is not okay (although I do see your arguments why it might be) - it's not that there's anything per se wrong with a healing-through-lurve thingy, it's the fact that the cRPG format can offer no sense of reciprocity. And the fact he bones her while she cries. Dude. It just strikes me as *potentially* playing into a dodgy fantasy of emotional rescue - you know that the PC can't give her anything (like his cock) while she's "strong" only when she's weak and weeping.

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http://tristanjsstuff.blogspot.com/

at 04:24 on 2010-05-30Out of curiosity, what did you think of Shepard's and Jack's friendship? I've only played through 2 as Nice!Fem!Shepard, and she seemed more like she was trying to 'fix' Jack, and by the end of the game, it seemed more like Jack was on the road to recovery.

Also, I don't understand why Jack wanting closure by blowing the crap out of the hellhole she came from is 'touchy feely crap cause she's a woman'. Sounds like a perfectly understandable (if not reasonable or healthy) response.

Finally, what would you have thought if Jack had all the exact same backstory, personality, motivations and interactions, but was male? Again, I'm just curious.

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Arthur B

at 23:00 on 2010-07-23So I just beat Mass Effect 2. Thoughts:

- I played it as Asshole Shepherd, which is quite good for avoiding sexual creepiness towards Jack. The Renegade attitude towards her (when it doesn't involve trying to bone her) seems to involve a rugged determination not to enable her moping whilst letting her do what's necessary to work through her issues, which just seems miles healthier than "let me heal you with my dick". Either way, I was glad that completing her loyalty mission unlocks the option to make her wear a shirt.

- The loyalty missions could be a bit more diverse. It would be nice to have more which didn't end with the NPC in question confronting a character from their past and either killing them or not killing them. (I quite liked Thane's one for that reason actually).

- I was really impressed with the way they structured the suicide mission and the potential for major NPCs (and you) dying during it. Though apparently Zaeed is a suboptimal person to lead the B-team in the suicide mission, which seems... bizarre. You're told you need to pick someone who's used to leading a team. He once led a whole mercenary army. You'd think he'd be perfect for it.

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Arthur B

at 02:02 on 2010-07-25Double post because I forgot to mention something:

YOU CAN BUY

BOO

AND KEEP HIM IN YOUR CABIN

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Bookwyrm

at 05:08 on 2013-07-05I have a couple questions. When you said Jack was a "pseudo-badass" were you just referring to the story or were you including the game play too? According to

TV Tropes

, Jack is one of the weaker characters despite being touted as one of the most powerful human biotics in the cut scenes.

I haven't played the game myself so I wanted to know if she was at least useful in combat(if you used her at all). Also, what did you think her character in Mass Effect 3?

(Personally I'd like to know how someone with an extensive criminal record and clear psychological issues managed to get a teaching job at Grissom Academy within six months.)

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http://arilou-skiff.livejournal.com/

at 11:59 on 2013-07-05^ Companions don't make that much of a differenc really, pick the one you're most comfortable with.

"- I was really impressed with the way they structured the suicide mission and the potential for major NPCs (and you) dying during it. Though apparently Zaeed is a suboptimal person to lead the B-team in the suicide mission, which seems... bizarre. You're told you need to pick someone who's used to leading a team. He once led a whole mercenary army. You'd think he'd be perfect for it."

He's also the guy whose team always ends up either dead or betraying him :p

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Arthur B

at 12:15 on 2013-07-05

He's also the guy whose team always ends up either dead or betraying him :p

True enough, but the more distance on it I get the more the suicide mission's underlying assumptions and logic seems counter-intuitive and oblique and impenetrable. Which is good if you want people to occasionally die apparently arbitrarily for reasons the player can't fathom, except that really doesn't seem to have been what Bioware were aiming for.

Possibly this is a side effect of me preferring to ignore

ME2

these days, partly because in retrospect I see bits of

ME3

stuff creeping in there (like the weird way it makes you want to consider Cerberus stuff important but then refuses to let you actually interact with it in any interesting fashion) and partly because my peak of enthusiasm for the series was at the end of

ME1

, where it felt like there was still a whole universe out there to explore and the story could go

anywhere

from that point.

#Ferretbrain #Wardog #Video games #Mass Effect #Mass Effect II

0 notes

alwaysyourqueen · 8 years ago

Note

all of the questions. fandoms: marvel, dc, star wars, videogames, YOUR OWN OCs heck do what you want. if it's overwhelming pick 1

Putting these under a cute because this will take a while.

MARVEL

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get? Most of the fetishized M/M ships (especially Stony and Thorki)

Are there any popular fandom OTPs you only BroTP? Science Bros (Tony + Bruce)

Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion? Yes. More than once.

Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular OTP? I mean I’m not a fan of Stucky, which is super popular

Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you? Ahahahahhahahahahahahhaha yes.

Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated? Mm. T’challa/Sam wasn’t something I would’ve considered

Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now? I don’t know about this because I’m a salty person who sticks by my stuff regardless.

Have you received anon hate? What about? Nah. Not popular enough.

Most disliked character(s)? Why? Any n*zi version of a character. No thanks.

Most disliked arc? Why? Ghost Rider. Yawn.

Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? Uh not sure?

Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? Again, not sure. I haven’t been in touch with Marvel fandom much.

Unpopular opinion about XXX character? I mean. I can’t answer this one.

Unpopular opinion about your fandom? The fandom can go fuck itself with all its fetishization.

Unpopular opinion about the manga/show? Agents of SHIELD has had swings of quality up and down but it’s better than the movies right now.

If you could change anything in the show, what would you change? Lincoln would never have arrived on the show.

Instead of XYZ happening, I would have made ABC happen… Instead of Lincoln, I would have polyamorous Daisy/Gemma/Fitz.

Does not shipping something ‘popular’ mean you’re in denial and/or biased? Of course not.

What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom? As I said before, the fetishization of mlm and the erasure of characters of color.

What is the purest ship in the fandom? Steve/Peggy.

What are your thoughts on crack ships? They’re not for me but I don’t mind them.

Popular character you hate? I don’t think there are any? Unless Lincoln is popular. Fuck Lincoln.

Unpopular character you love? TRIP DESERVED BETTER

Would you recommend XXX to a friend? Why or why not? I would recommend it to people who I know absorb media critically.

How would you end XXX/Would you change the ending of XXX? Less deaths of women and characters of color in general.

Most shippable character? I don’t know, I have very few ships for Marvel just in general.

Least shippable character? Bruce. I want him to fly solo.

DC (note: this will be heavily Batman: The Animated Series)

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get? Batman/Superman. I mean, okay, it’s funny, but I don’t really get it. I do enjoy it, but it’s not like active shipping.

Are there any popular fandom OTPs you only BroTP? I don’t know what is popular in DC.

Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion? Ye.

Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular OTP? I mean I hate any pedophilic relationships. Or incest. Some of those might be popular, knowing the nasties on the inter webs.

Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you? Not that I can recall, but I don’t ship much in DC.

Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated? Actually yes. Several things, mostly because I am more at peace with things and can enjoy more stuff freely.

Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now? Not really?

Have you received anon hate? What about? Nah. Not popular enough.

Most disliked character(s)? Why? The Joker is a bit flat, despite being a classic.

Most disliked arc? Why? I can’t remember, BTAS was so good.

Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? Pry every single character from BTAS out of my cold, dead hands.

Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? Pry every single arc from BTAS out of my cold, dead hands.

Unpopular opinion about XXX character? Can’t exactly answer this.

Unpopular opinion about your fandom? I mean. I’m not involved in DC fandom.

Unpopular opinion about the manga/show? I can’t remember but I prefer the Poison Ivy origin story I saw on some other show than BTAS and I can never find it.

If you could change anything in the show, what would you change? More Harley/Ivy dammit!

Instead of XYZ happening, I would have made ABC happen… Selina and Bruce spending more time together pls.

Does not shipping something ‘popular’ mean you’re in denial and/or biased? No.

What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom? I’m gonna keep my childhood away from you nasties.

What is the purest ship in the fandom? I mean Harley/Ivy isn’t exactly pure but it’s super sweet.

What are your thoughts on crack ships? Go for it if it’s your thing. It’s not mine.

Popular character you hate? ?? I don’t know what’s popular.

Unpopular character you love? Pry every single character from BTAS out of my cold, dead hands.

Would you recommend XXX to a friend? Why or why not? BTAS is so good. So good.

How would you end XXX/Would you change the ending of XXX? I want more BTAS. I wouldn’t change it.

Most shippable character? ????? I guess Selina.

Least shippable character? All the children.

STAR WARS (gonna stick with movies era)

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get? R*ylo, Ob*k*n, K*lo/anyone tbh.

Are there any popular fandom OTPs you only BroTP? Rey and Poe are best buds but nah son.

Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion? MANY TIMES.

Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular OTP? Fucking. Ob*k*n and R*ylo. WHY GOD WHY.

Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you? Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Yes.

Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated? Actually, SkySolo.

Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now? Not that I can think of really.

Have you received anon hate? What about? Nah. Not popular enough.

Most disliked character(s)? Why? Palpatine is a great character but keep him away from my children.

Most disliked arc? Why? Phantom Menace. Shoddy writing.

Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? Pry Anakin from my cold, dead hands.

Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? Pry attack of the clones from my cold, dead hands.

Unpopular opinion about XXX character? I can’t answer this.

Unpopular opinion about your fandom? The fandom is really hostile to wlw and people of color and it’s gotta stop.

Unpopular opinion about the manga/show? Clone Wars > Rebels.

If you could change anything in the show, what would you change? Rebels needs more Ahsoka, Clone Wars needs more Riyosoka.

Instead of XYZ happening, I would have made ABC happen… Instead of Anakin turning to the dark side, he raises his children with his loving wife and kills Palpatine personally.

Does not shipping something ‘popular’ mean you’re in denial and/or biased? Not at all.

What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom? The relentless mistreatment of female characters.

What is the purest ship in the fandom? FinnRey. It’s so good.

What are your thoughts on crack ships? If it’s for you, whatever. It’s not for me.

Popular character you hate? Not that I know of? I have a lot of vitriolic star wars hate though, so let me know.

Unpopular character you love? RIYO CHUCHI IS MY WIFE AND ALSO AHSOKA’S WIFE.

Would you recommend XXX to a friend? Why or why not? Yes always and forever Star Wars owns my ass.

How would you end XXX/Would you change the ending of XXX? Rey needs a girlfriend on one arm and Finn on the other as she goes to train with her father.

Most shippable character? Frankly I ship Padmé, Leia, and Rey around a lot. Wonder why.

Least shippable character? Palpatine and Snoke. I’d tell them to go fuck themselves but they don’t deserve the pleasure.

VIDEO GAMES (gonna do dragon age and mass effect for simplicity’s sake)

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get? Cullen/Dorian

Are there any popular fandom OTPs you only BroTP? Shakarian tbh…

Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion? Yeah.

Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular OTP? I have. Many.

Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you? Yes a million times or more.

Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated? Mm. Morriana came from some fanworks primarily. And several others than I am less enjoying now but I still like.

Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now? Ahhhh some things that aren’t because there’s anything wrong with it but because of My Personal Feelings.

Have you received anon hate? What about? Nah never.

Most disliked character(s)? Why? Cora irritates me at times even though I love her, and Liara coming onto me in ME2 was a little weird. Cullen is annoying for a lot of reasons.

Most disliked arc? Why? Without the context of the book, Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts felt out of place.

Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? I mean I don’t know who’s strictly unpopular because I hide in my corner and hoard my loves. Josephine isn’t super popular. She’s my first love.

Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? I liked the Deep Roads and the Fade. I know, I said it.

Unpopular opinion about XXX character? I can’t answer this.

Unpopular opinion about your fandom? Both fandoms have a lot of big problems that they pretend aren’t there, particularly with both whitewashing and ignoring wlw in favor of mediocre men.

Unpopular opinion about the manga/show? I like Ryder more than I like Shepard.

If you could change anything in the show, what would you change? Actually interacting with Ellen Ryder instead of Dead Mom™.

Instead of XYZ happening, I would have made ABC happen… Instead of wlw getting no romance content, I would’ve made everyone gay to spite str8s.

Does not shipping something ‘popular’ mean you’re in denial and/or biased? No.

What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom? Acting as if people are a hive mind who are all gonna love all characters.

What is the purest ship in the fandom? I’m biased but Ryder/Suvi. Suvi is my scientist wife.

What are your thoughts on crack ships? If that’s your thing, go for it. Not for me.

Popular character you hate? I have bitterness towards Liara because of her scenes. She’s a fine character but she feels like she’s coming onto me even when my Shep was with someone else.

Unpopular character you love? ?????? I mean I don’t know.

Would you recommend XXX to a friend? Why or why not? Yes, but I’d be careful about it. Because I know I conflict with people because of my. Particular Stances.

How would you end XXX/Would you change the ending of XXX? DA2 needed more in general. Just more.

Most shippable character? The PC of any of the games.

Least shippable character? Cole. He’s a child.

MY OWN OCS

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get? They’re my OCs so…I guess one I’ve been doing lately that makes me a bit uncomfortable.

Are there any popular fandom OTPs you only BroTP? The same as above.

Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion? Nah because they’re MY OCs.

Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular OTP? Any incest, pedophilia, abuse, all would be NOTPs. Some would be popular if I had a fandom and I know this.

Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you? RIP Lorren/Patch.

Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated? Nah.

Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now? Probably, not that I can think of.

Have you received anon hate? What about? Nah.

Most disliked character(s)? Why? I mean I love all my OCs.

Most disliked arc? Why? They’re…my stories.

Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? I love all my characters and lots of them don’t even have a presence with anyone but me.

Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? I mean. Lots of my plots are probably uninteresting to certain people.

Unpopular opinion about XXX character? I can’t answer this.

Unpopular opinion about your fandom? I want one.

Unpopular opinion about the manga/show? I will never have one.

If you could change anything in the show, what would you change? I should revamp a lot of my OCs, give them a makeover.

Instead of XYZ happening, I would have made ABC happen… Instead of Lorren being abused, she should’ve stayed with her mate.

Does not shipping something ‘popular’ mean you’re in denial and/or biased? No, but I will judge you for not shipping the actual pairings I have.

What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom? That I don’t have one?

What is the purest ship in the fandom? Sara/Suvi.

What are your thoughts on crack ships? I don’t crackship.

Popular character you hate? Oh yes. Old Rugemorne. I don’t care about you you old bastard.

Unpopular character you love? PRY VISHA FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS.

Would you recommend XXX to a friend? Why or why not? I recommend my OCs because they’re my OCs.

How would you end XXX/Would you change the ending of XXX? I need more OCs.

Most shippable character? Teri is pretty shippable. So is Avery.

Least shippable character? Dor’senn is aroace so.

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