#lestat just wanted ur attention louis

[wendahoi]

louis is not amused

ib: sweepswoop_ on twt

[frigidwife]

First off, sorry if I'm about to sound utterly clueless. I've watched the show since day one, but only started properly engaging with fandom discussions recently so I'm probably missing a lot or being dumb. My question is, why do you think some fans were so scandalized by the reveal that Armand was seemingly going to let Louis die in the trial, but completely indifferent to the fact that he actively DID let Claudia die? I get why betraying Louis was a bigger deal to Armand himself, and why the reveal of that betrayal had the narrative ramifications it did. I even get that many fans had pre-emptively come to terms with Claudia's death to some extent, and were likely prepared for the possibility that Armand was (at best) complicit in the trial, if not outright responsible. Even the staunchest Armand fans weren't buying his "I could not prevent it" mantra as far as I saw, but they didn't seem bothered by it until they realized Louis was meant to die too? I know this particular twist wasn't in the book, but it felt plausible in context (to me, at least) and pretty much in keeping with how Armand was written the whole season. And yet some fans are still upset about it, even fans who claim to love Claudia. Is there an angle I'm missing here, or is it really a case of 'I can excuse daughter-murdering as long as it's in a romantic cause'??

you don't sound clueless you sound very very sensible! literally if ur paying attention to the season it’s a shock but not really a surprise like the escalation to physical abuse in 1.05 . was texting my friend this actually the other day the people who feel blindsided and betrayed by the twist just want armand to be lestat. Like there is a character who abuses claudia and fails her fundamentally despite loving her and seeing himself reflected in her. There is a character who is unable to pick her over louis even for louis’s sake because he wants louis so badly and loves him so selfishly . and that choice will haunt him forever and ever and both tie him and louis closer together and drive them forever apart. and people wanted it to be armand but this is the nuclear family gothic romance show so it’s not ! it’s lestat. which obviously isn’t to say lestats abuse is “better” or intrinsically more forgivable or whatever bc they don’t exist on a scale. but it is qualitatively different like u could read s1 as a study in how patriarchy couches abuse in family and romance . season 2 it’s not couched in anything but performance . & also not every man who wants to possess and control his lover is Heathcliff wuthering heights style devoted sometimes they just love control

[nightcolorz]

The most heartbreaking thing about Armand regarding Marius is that Marius is still alive and very respected by other vampires, including the few people Armand himself respects and loves

Like sure, others have suffered abuse, Lestat suffered a lot of abuse, but all of Lestat's abusers are dead, Lestat is free to process his trauma without anyone telling him he is being overdramatic

Meanwhile Armand's abuser is right there, he is forced to interact and be polite and pretend he isn't fucking terrified of Marius

And to make it worse Marius is a respected member of the community, people value his advice and see him and a wise teacher, Armand must feel so lonely when it comes to thinking about what Marius did to him

It's no wonder people want AMC version of Daniel (and to an extent Louis) to hate the guy, Armand needs someone on his corner and it sure won't be Lestat who also sees Marius as a wise teacher

While I think Anne was a good writer I sometimes resent how uninterested she was in exploring the nuances of her characters interpersonal relationships, she never let the characters feel resentment for eachother for long, the plot was more important for her

UGHHH THIS IS INCREDIBLY TRUE!!! So mf heartbreaking oh my god. Hard agree with ur last point about Anne never exploring stuff like this, idk how she managed to create such realistic abuse dynamics seemingly by accident and then focus all of her attention on the alien invasion plot line that consists exclusively of sitting around at a table and talking 😭😭

but ugh, yeah, as I said this is just such a realistic scenario for a victim of abuse (especiallyyy sexual abuse) to go through. Pedophiles and sexual abusers r so often powerful, well liked and respected people, which suppresses their victims abilities to ever be open about what they went through. For Armand he can’t even truly process it, and is stuck believing that any fear he has of Marius is irrational and Marius was purely good to him. Armand’s dynamic with Marius during the ambiguous post canon era reminds me of how child sa in a family often operates when the family chooses to protect the abuser over the child. I won’t go into detail about this cuz it’s a triggering topic but yeahh, what I love about the vampire chronicles is how often the collective vampire community operates like an abusive and unhealthy family.

God just, yeah, thank u for this ask anon ugh it’s hitting me in the gut in a good, sad way

[ca-suffit]

Hi! I really like your opinions on IWTV characters! I wanted to ask if you could explain the "painting Louis as feminine is antiblack" view other people have? Also if you could reference how showmey0urfangs argued this as I follow her but can't seem to find it😭 I really don't understand how it's antiblack. I see it as the opposite.

As a black person who was raised by a father who embraced his feminine side and often raised his voice on the importance of how hyper masculinity of black men is used as a weapon in media to create a hostile mindset for black boys that stops them from growing as a person, I see that Louis being in touch in his maternal side that often depicts femininity is quite the opposite of antiblack.

I think it's progressive and forward thinking that a black man can be feminine without the theatrics of it all. (I consider Louis more in touch with his feminine than Lestat)

hello and thank u! <3

here's the main post on the topic from showmey0urfangs. this was from the latter half of 2023. I'll give some history too since we're here (idk if ur new or not but this is a general post too for anyone who might not know any of this).

after this started (and sometimes continuing to today), ppl amplified a lot of talk about "feminizing" louis and promoting mpreg just to push back against this on purpose, bcuz most black fans didn't agree with her opinion. I don't think the fandom as a whole knew about this a lot tho bcuz the fandom doesn't tend to pay attention to black fans in the first place.

showmey0urfangs also was usually putting all these ppl on "fandom PSAs" and trying to get the fandom to turn against them bcuz of stuff like this, although it was always reframed as some kind of "shipping discourse" or smthng instead. she constantly targets black fans or anyone otherwise who talks about race in order to defend white fandom and then uses her identity to shield herself from criticism about it. here's long examples of it in the past (mostly the bottom half of the post) and here's an example she did with me in the last few months. this is literally the whole reason this account and most ppl on it are anon, bcuz this is all the fandom does to ppl to avoid ever talking about the real issues.

[namnammunchmunch]

Hi! I saw in ur post that u r French and i wanted to ask - is lestats accent passable or bad? Also, does Armand also have a french accent? Im truly horrible at hearing accents so i cant understand how realistic they are..

Lestat clearly has an English accent and he can't really sell to me that he's natively french but it's fine I don't need him to and I understand what he says just fine. He's still very good and some words he pronounces perfectly. I haven't heard enough French from Armand yet, or I haven't payed attention enough to tell you. I'll probably post an update then ^^ Louis is very hard to understand, I have to have the subtitles, and Claudia might have better grammar and is canonically better at learning languages than Louis, but her accent is just as bad as louis' to understand lol. Can't really judge, my own English accent is barely passable :') pronunciation is a lot harder to learn than grammar and vocabulary in my opinion, it's learning to make sounds your mouth never made after all.

[licncourt]

I don't want to overwhelm you with so many questions, but I'd like to read your Loustat angst or hurt/comfort headcanons 🥺

"Ur headcanons always get me thinking about more. So, can we get some Lestat’s shitty mental health days and Louis’ shitty mental health days headcanons, just like how they take care of each other and such!"

Alright, sure!! Some of these are not going to be new for anyone who's read my current fic, but I have many. I'll kind of combine both of these into one!

They were both kind of a dick about each other's mental health when they were initially together. Very little empathy/benefit of the doubt going on in that house, plus it was the 18th/19th century, so neither of them was super understanding of mental health in general. Not entirely their fault, but it built a lot of resentment

Louis gets a little catatonic when he's having A Day, pretty checked out to the point where he stops being able to really take care of himself. This was very disruptive to his life as a mortal (he had a lot of responsibilities) and Lestat had very little patience for it. He felt like Louis was giving him the silent treatment or sulking to punish him/having a shitty attitude

These days, Lestat is actually a very good and attentive husband when it happens. He's still not great with talking about feelings, but he's always hovering around and fussing. Depression Louis is his little house plant to tend to and he takes the job seriously. He brings Louis extra blankets, brushes his hair out, makes sure he puts on fresh clothes, and even reads to him or plays the piano so he's not just staring at a blank wall all night. (It actually helps Lestat too. He's the kind of person who needs to feel needed by others after so long being treated as expendable)

Louis still has major problems around feeding, so Lestat keeps him fed when he can't or won't hunt. If the problem is "can't" because of a depressive episode, Lestat will lure or beguile a human home like room service. If the problem is "won't", Lestat lets Louis feed from him. It's not ideal because more than a little bit of Lestat's blood would cause changes that Louis' doesn't want, but it's much better than nothing and keeps him off rats

Like I mentioned in my Lestat headcanons, I definitely read him as having BPD, so Louis learning how to help him manage that made a huge difference. The odds are very low that either of them actually knows what BPD is, but Louis definitely knows that there's something off with Lestat even if he doesn't understand what or why

Just the new compassion and understanding he has during Lestat's episodes was huge, especially because feeling judged/unwanted/attacked by Louis for being like that was a big trigger for Lestat before. Learning to respond to BPD episode Lestat in good faith and without taking the bait or ignoring him (both make it way worse) has cut their conflict in half and made Lestat much less volatile overall now that he doesn't feel so defensive all the time or like Louis is always on the verge of leaving him like Nicki and Gabrielle

Most of the time Lestat's bad days involve a lot of Big Feelings (BPD or PTSD related most often), so Louis' calm vibes are quite convenient. After Akasha, Lestat also has a lot of body horror/dysphoria and what helps the most are quiet, soothing activities that can be done together, especially when attachment/abandonment issues are involved. They'll take a shower/bath together, nap all safe and cozy in a very secure coffin (Magnus and Akasha created some issues for him with sleep security), etc. Anything that centers physical touch is good too, from back rubs to very sweet, reassuring sex that helps Lestat feel less like he wants to crawl out of his skin and calms the worry that Louis is repulsed by him

Both of them have recurring nightmares. Louis' are usually about Paul, Claudia, Lestat's abduction by Akasha, or even just finding himself all alone again. Lestat's are often about Magnus & Akasha, his father/childhood, or Louis leaving/something happening to him

They both actually have a lot of baggage from their childhoods. Lestat's abuse from his father and Louis' religious trauma made sure the insecurities are rooted DEEP. Fortunately, their books made it a little easier to talk about. Kind of a trauma conversation starter. They can both relate to daddy issues for sure. We know from TVL about the Marquis being a piece of shit, but I hc Louis' dad as a pretty brutal physical and mental disciplinarian who was especially hard on Louis because of his sadness and "weakness". He definitely did not want an eldest son who was weepy and bookish and blushed talking to the neighbor boy

A huge shared source of grief for them is still Claudia. Obviously they had very different relationships with her that bring their own type of guilt and pain, but a big part of healing their relationship was the opportunity to grieve Claudia together instead of letting it stay an elephant in the room and rift between them. The anniversaries of her turning (her "birthday") her attack on Lestat, and her death are all particularly hard

Just having the other has a constant presence in their lives since reconciling has been huge. Lestat has abandonment issues out the ass, so the consistency of companionship and affection Louis gives him is invaluable to his mental health. Louis, as quiet and introverted as he is, does not do well alone. He needs loved ones near him so he doesn't totally withdraw and get stuck in his own head. Lestat keeps him engaged with the world and makes him feel loved/wanted/important

In conclusion, they are soulmates

[spellsandarrows]

I saw your tag on that post rn LOL and i want to know what shit you made up abt louis!! What are your hcs???? Im desperate for louis content LOL

[rubs my gay trans hands together]

alright in no particular canon verse way, ive complied some of my louis hcs, general and during the years he had away from lestat. from the ridiculous to the soft to some real shit

when the day’s hard and the evening’s free, after a quick feed, it’s somber piano hours while laying on the floor, sometimes pacing around his room until dawn comes up and he’s like ‘ah fuck not again’ bc he literally did nothing all day (again)

if stress hits hard, it’s out into the night, parkouring. imagine present day louis literally parkouring and some random dude just records him and he’s all over youtube, twitter and tiktok and louis is like ‘oh no i’ve been perceived’ this does not in fact stop him but he’s a little ticked off now

something about louis calls to my attention that he bites his hair absentmindedly. no explanation as to why

affection is hard to ask for. ‘hold my hand. no don’t hold my hand. hold my hand. no not like that’ *fixes their hands and refuses to make eye contact*

with that said he's overly sensitive and it has to be under his terms. he would rather be asked before touched or he will send u sprawling on ur back. lestat would know

louis is aromantic, at least somewhere in the spectrum for sure. feelings are complicated but he does know he loves lestat (no it’s not me projecting onto louis hours 🙄🙄👉👈)

louis questions gender later, like all vampires do. nonbinary rights, 100%

he has a "morning" ritual. I like to think he has human things he just does bc its nice. he puts on some music, he washes his face, he muses at his hair with his hands. he picks a fresh outfit, knowing full well he'll change out of them after he feeds. he has a moment of quiet and peace after he's ready. he holds an empty mug. maybe he warms up a cup of coffee just to smell something old and long ago

louis is a shower person. the feeling of a shower, standing with the water almost to boiling water temperature, getting lost in thought. it leaves him in good spirits, enough to hum to himself as he proceeds with the rest of the day

is it bad that every now and then he purposeful finds a young handsome blonde to feed on? is it wrong that he’s gentle about it? or to tear into them until they’re nothing? coping mechanism machine might be broken

enough rat jokes, louis should and be allowed a few pet rats, as a treat. he let’s them live their happy little lives and he may be a little overly attached to the little fat ones

sometimes his heart hurts a lot when something romantic comes up on the radio. he’s not sure why (except that he does)

bc lestat likes it, he brushes at lestat's hair but he also finds it therapeutic. he fiddles with it as he reads to him and it reminds him of another set of locks he used to brush at. he doesn't think on it too long

louis’ a fall kind of guy. the weather is perfect, the aesthetic is 👀 he’s also a big rain person, it has a nice ambience to it when he’s indoors and reading

when louis kisses, he kisses so u feel what hes feeling. it's sweet. it lingers. his hands cup at ur face, his lips pulling apart at urs. his hand will eventually move to the small of ur waist. moments like these are perfect for cuddling and affection comes easily for him

even after him and lestat definitely work out their problems together, they’re still bitterly fighting but instead of the usual bite it had before, it’s almost endearingly sweet. still the same but there’s a charm to it, it’s so playful and to the outsider, it isn’t much but to them, it’s just another way they tease one another

[ca-suffit]

I generally *don't* dislike devils minion as a ship. I like it even...But sometimes I think about blocking it even though there is good content i like to see on it.

But the tag is filled with people who hate loumand, people who try to put shippers down. I don't see that much hate even from loustat fans.

One of the things I repeatedly see that gets on my nerves is the "armand pays more attention to daniel in dubai then he does to louis" take.

I understand they probably will happen in following seasons. But to think that armand was secretly in love with daniel the whole time in dubai is such a weird take to me. Do you think it has any base or is it just the fans trying to push their own narrative? Am I crazy to think that armand looked like he was completely in love with louis in dubai, despite their problems, and didn't really care about daniel outside of louis?

I get that they will get together in the future and i will support them and nod along when that happens. But they clearly didn't happen in season 2. There was just too much resentment on both sides and they both clearly cared more about louis. Am i crazy to think that?

I think first of all that ppl should relax trying to attack each other over which ships they like or not. it's pointless and everyone is with everyone else eventually so there's no reason to be going at each other about any of it. this was way less intense before the show aired bcuz everyone was white. now it's insane bcuz there's a lot of racist motivations fueling the protection or rejection of these ships. we can all just breathe (this is a general statement, not rly aimed at u).

secondly tho. I think the show has made a lot of things intentionally ambiguous. I can't say one way or another what armand is thinking bcuz the way he looks at daniel at times could read either way. he *is* focused on daniel in one sense bcuz daniel is *the enemy.* once armand was no longer rashid, he could more directly confront daniel and he did (not like being rashid stopped him fully anyway but lol). but there's times he's uncharacteristically gentler on daniel than louis is, like during the engagement mind-reading fuckery. I think it's meant to read as both, if u have awareness of DM. I don't think it's meant to be THERE there rn but a detail to notice and think is kind of fun (hard for this fandom to do tho, ik lol).

idk when DM is meant to take place in this universe, but I think there's something to be said about viewing all of them after 2x5. armand has remembered that entire thing the whole time and yet they're back here again. he'd otherwise erased both of their memories so neither one remembered the "fascinating" segment and he prbly figured the risk of louis thinking that again after so much time and in a different mindset was v low. but louis is still talking to the man he said was more fascinating as a stranger than armand had been for decades. and they're talking about lestat again. "ur going to teach me how to be fascinating" is prbly still in there somewhere. armand is always watching both of them bcuz he still wants to know what this means and why it happened.

it kind of mirrors jonah in S1. even tho louis doesn't explicitly tell lestat not to touch him, we learn that he lived to old age too. it makes claudia's death even worse but anyway I'm getting kind of OT.

but he definitely is v invested in louis too and is putting a lot into making the relationship look good. some of my fav parts are from some of those scenes tbh, when he's just smiling and recounting memories with louis in front of daniel. or even when he runs out as rashid to stop louis from attacking daniel again over claudia's diaries in S1, which now has more context knowing their history and louis' desire to not have harm come to daniel.

[ca-suffit]

So, I'm the anon that asked the "how do you rationalize the violence?" question, btw. Thank you for your answer. I personally believe 2x07's version of the events is closer to the truth (I don't think there's a POV that 100% accurate, but I think that's as accurate as it gets about it), but that doesn't excuse Lestat's violence. Louis might have provoked him, but he had just seen Claudia being chocked and stepped in to defend her. I don't blame him for lack of a better word, 'exploding'. I think I would've done worse if I saw my niece, that isn't even my own child, in that situation. And yes, Lestat has gone through a lot of trauma in the books and the show, and people can argue how that and being turned into a vampire shaped his mind and have this aggressive side he might not be proud of, but it doesn't excuse anything. Because Lestat himself caused a lot of trauma in both Claudia's and Louis' lives. I do hope if the show is going with a loustat endgame (haven't read the books, but from what I've heard, they're canon), they're gonna have Lestat using his infinite lifetime to reflect on that, really earn Louis' forgiveness, be the kind of companion he deserves and never even consider doing it again. If it's possible to redeem him. I don't know if it is, but at least they have the "they have all the time in the world to do that" card. I do hope they try it, though, because making this behavior normalized and recurring would be terrible. I just don't know if it will be convincing and satisfying, but I'll wait I guess. I hope the same for Armand too and that they give him and Assad the grace of flashing out the character instead of demonizing him to make Lestat look better. I hope they also know he'll need and deserve more from the narrative than a half-assed apology, because there will definitely be some double standards about Lestat and Armand. There already are. But I struggle with some other stuff too. Because I love Louis, but he's not innocent either. I also don't believe in punitivism and I don't want to be reducing him and feeding into people that want to stereotype and demonize him, but... Claudia really is the only character that has always been inferior in terms of power imbalances in the dynamics of the show. At least among the main characters. If we consider killing people to feed then it's basically useless because they're vampires and not even the human is innocent because Daniel didn't worry about Malik being lunch. I do think it's a good thing for Louis' accountability that he feels regret and remorse for his worst actions, but I don't believe the fandom does the best job at discussing that. Many times it feels like babying the white character, reducing the characters of color into racial stereotypes of abusive, comparing them, ignoring what's convenient to prop their favorite etc. Like one is always traumatized, misunderstood, trustworthy, ashamed, trying to be better and the other is always wrong, unreliable, overdramatic etc. There doesn't seem to be a lot of nuance on people's interpretations and a safe space to discuss the differences of each moment and dynamic without accidentally feeding characters you love to the lions... Anyway, I'm rambling at this point, I don't even know what I was trying to ask lmao. But thanks for the attention and the previous answer.

(context) u can ramble all u want here tbh.

there *are* a lot of questions to explore and this fandom makes it v hard to do it. despite what the racist side would have u believe, ur not going to get attacked for exploring questions. ppl know whether someone's being intentionally racist or not when trying to talk about these characters.

the thing that the fandom isn't understanding (on purpose) is that having black and brown characters have these complex personalities u can explore is a rly good thing?! racists want u to believe that there's topics we can't talk about bcuz of stuff like saying ppl "need" louis to be "a victim," but all that rly says is "I don't want to have empathy for black ppl but I'm gonna say it another way and blame others for it." nobody here is saying louis, claudia, or armand is off limits to exploring, just don't be fucking racist about it! ppl would rather run off and say the fandom is full of bullies who will call u racist instead of...looking at their own biases? half the time nobody is even saying the word "racist," these ppl apply that shit to themselves in a panic. it'd be funny if it wasn't so harmful.

things to ask urself here are....what is ur definition of "redeemable"? where does that belief come from in the first place? a religion? society? both? what is ur own relationship with abuse and trauma? have u explored what codependency looks like in real relationships? do u understand all the emotions behind these things the characters are doing? why is louis feeling regret and remorse important to u?

I think a lot of confusion and anger over the DV is that ppl only know of one response to it and that's to leave forever. a lot of society is built on v black and white thinking with no emphasis on forgiveness or growth. ofc nobody has to interact with anyone they don't want to or "owes" anyone forgiveness or help to rehabilitate and all that, but it doesn't change that the person themselves is capable of growing and changing. we tend to have strict ideas of what "abuser" and "victim" look like and don't realize how quickly those identities can switch on the same people. a lot of abusive behavior is learned from trauma and traumatized ppl tend to form relationships with each other and act just like these vampires do. it's hard to place anyone in single categories bcuz it's a spectrum. this is humanity reflected at us thru vampires.

all of these vampires carry their specific trauma and triggers and are living in ages where none of this even has been put into words yet, plus they're vampires on top of it. their rules *are* different from ours to an extent and a lot of it is bcuz they're also a v small group who is immortal. imagine someone u rly hate for having harmed u badly in some way (mentally and/or physically) and then imagine u knowing ur gonna run into them or hear their thoughts for the rest of eternity. are u supposed to kill them? could u live with that for eternity too? what if they're stronger than u? what if they read ur mind first and kill u instead? it's a lot to forever think about. idk what the show is going to do, but I have faith it'll be satisfying bcuz of knowing AMC's history with writing about traumatized ppl. Television has gotten rly good at writing about abuse and trauma in v nuanced ways. ppl tend to shy away from it tho bcuz they're not ready to confront these things in their own life and so they find an excuse to say it's bad. the racist side cannot get over calling it "shock value" even tho all the violence (physical, emotional, sexual) has been treated with great respect to the audience and characters. u see the violence move thru the characters, affect them for years, and nothing shown of the violence itself is meant to feel cheap and "shocking." these ppl simply do not want to engage so they find a reason to justify why and this story will never make sense to them bcuz of it.