#lestat isn't evil

[joefangs]

There are so many discrepancies if we compare season 1 Louis' memories and season 2 recollections of his. He made Lestat look almost bad, devilish in season 1, blamed everything on him, and stayed clean with Claudia. In season 2, we can finally see the issues with his memories of Lestat. Even in season 1 Louis changed his words in front of Daniel. In S2 it kind of proved that Louis' collections were muddled. He changed his memories way too many times. At last he admitted to go on with Lestat's version. I mean, I know and I can confirm that Lestat has always been good as far as the definition of "a good vampire" can go, and all the things Louis said about him are not all true.

If I go according to the books, Interview with the vampire and The Vampire Lestat are two different books with different Lestats to be precise. TV Louis said that Lestat didn't hesitate to kill, but the book Lestat from the second book, said he made a grave mistake of making Claudia ( About who, he said that he loved his dark daughter, and he didn't want that fate for her. He regretted making a young fledgling because Marius warned him about his mistake of creating Armand that young) and other than that he vowed to never kill any innocents. He only killed the damned ones, and the ones who were about to die. Also, got me thinking, how can he kill innocent people, when he took care of his family in France, who were all human. Even his mother opposed his actions, but Lestat didn't listen. So, how can a century old vampire, who still cares about his human family, gives them financial support all along, can kill mercilessly. It just didn't add to my wits. Most important of all, he loved Louis, more than Nicki even and admitted it over and over again. He longed to be with Louis, not because he always felt lonely, but because he loved Louis the most, so much that he rejected Armand in the book.

Louis' recollections of Lestat in season 1 is filled with somewhat hatred, because at that moment he thought Armand was his saviour. In S2, he started to have some clarity, mostly thanks to Daniel, and finally we know what happened.

In the book, Lestat was there at the Theatre the Vampire, he did accuse Claudia for his attempted murder, but let me tell you, he wasn't even in his right mind at that time. Even so, at that time he didn't accuse his Louis, and looked for his love, asked Armand, who (the B***h he is) lied to him about Louis' whereabouts. Lestat was somehow tricked by Armand, his thinking didn't work, as he mentioned that everything went in a trance, and after he accused Claudia, he was taken away forcibly, and he screamed Louis, Louis but with no avail, and they again fed him blood, and he forgot everything. I think Armand used magic, or he fed something to Lestat so he doesn't protest. After all of these, Lestat looked for Louis, and asked Armand to help him, and that BHole said he will not.

So, what I can surmise is, whatever you watched in S1, do not entirely believe it. This is mostly because, Lestat wasn't the one who lost his mind and hurt his Louis entirely. Louis was the pioneer of trouble in their home. He wasn't satisfied, he didn't accept the dark gift completely, and despised Lestat for that. That physical fight between them you can see, Lestat was hurt the most, both physically and mentally. And now I understand, why Louis kept seeing Dreamstat over and over again. Because, his guilt made him conjure Lestat everytime he thought he wanted a "home" with Armand.

Finally, the last episode depicted almost what The Vampire Lestat book has. They didn't show it, but Louis came back to Lestat, which he said was 'you came back to me'. Here, Lestat talks about a world tour, which is his rock concert in San Francisco. Here, Louis asks him to take him, and Lestat complies ecstatically. Also, they hugged compassiontely after meeting each other, just as they showed in the series. However, TV version displayed it as a part of Interview with the Vampire book, which is in reality from the book The Vampire Lestat.

[pirateshelly]

I simply do not vibe with the idea that Louis begging Lestat to make Claudia a vampire was the single worst thing that ever happened to her, and that her fate was sealed from that moment. I just cannot imagine spending two whole seasons getting to know and love Claudia and thinking, maybe it would have been better and less tragic for her if she had just died in that fire at the age of 14. Because in spite of everything there is never any indication that Claudia doesn't still have an immense will and curiosity and desire to live!

And (possibly controversial opinion) I also can't imagine seeing the flashback in 2.07 of Louis on his knees sobbing and begging Lestat to save Claudia and being like "oh wow Louis is more selfish and horrifying than I realized" instead of recognizing that this is Louis at absolute rock bottom and thoroughly out of his mind

[briar--rising]

It is so funny to me when people try to argue about who's 'worse', Lestat or Armand. First of all, worse by what metric? By the way they treat humans? The way they treat Claudia? Or (as it seems most people are focused on) only the way they treat Louis? And if it's by the way they treat Louis, are you judging based on what you would find worse in a partner, or by what Louis does (bc I would argue he pretty clearly has an opinion on that based on the end of season 2).

And most importantly of all, who cares??? They are both TERRIBLE. Everyone in this show is terrible! You can like morally reprehensible characters. Armand is my personal blorbo, and what he does is horrific. I can feel bad for him, and enjoy watching him, and think that his actions are heinous, and reblog art and read fanfiction of him, and analyze him without excusing him, all at the same time! And so can you with whoever you like!

Pitting these characters against one another is absurd. "Which one is less abusive" is a question I guess you can ask, but it's not a very interesting one. Much more interesting is "Why are they abusive in these specific ways? What about their trauma and personality informs their actions? Why does Louis react the way he does to each of them? What does that say about Louis? What does this show say about domestic violence in general? Are the rules different for vampires? Or is abuse abuse? Do the victims determine who should get forgiveness? Or are certain actions inherently unforgivable? Can you forgive someone when their victim hasn't? Is any of this different in fiction rather than reality? etc etc etc." There are so many interesting questions posed by the juxtaposition between Lestat and Armand and the way they treat Louis, and none of them are "but which one is worse so I can forever villify that one and hold up the other one as the paragon of what's good and right and perfect for Louis"

[dxxtruction]

Louis does see Armand for all his flaws, and yet still chooses him, and loves him, but when he sees them for what they really were, and really entailed, he no longer can. Oh, gradations of evil. Louis had in ways bought into it.

[winepresswrath]

i am going to wind up on team #justiceforarmand but it's going to be so situational. justice for armand specifically during the period of time louis is all "oooh who needs labels." a very different kind of justice for armand on matters pertaining to claudia.

[and-fishing-equipment]

i've started reading tvl and no amount of posts telling me there's a "huge tonal shift" could have prepared me for this HUGE TONAL SHIFT this is the funniest fucking thing i've ever read it genuinely goes like:

louis, narrator of iwtv: as i wandered the streets of paris, i wished most of all for death. i had called to god, to satan, anyone, to find meaning in it all. but for an evil creature such as myself there is no place in this world. there can be no love where this evil lies. it was as though a veil separated me from all that could be good and righteous. i did not deserve to love and be loved in return, not by claudia, lestat, armand. to attempt it would be a sisyphean task, a fools tale. and yet...... the need for hole from armand was so great. greater was only the need for........ living human blood.

lestat, narrator of tvl: hey guys, my name is lestat, you may know me because i'm really hot and sexy. english isn't my first language so sorry if i make any mistakes!! okay here's my story: after rotting beneath the earth for decades, my hot and sexy body has finally risen from the ground. i used to be depressed, but now i'm slutting it up again in the 20th century! first thing i did was get some (hot and sexy) new clothes and then wore them while riding my (hot and sexy) motorcycle and listening to bach on my sony walkman. while i was watching this super niche indie film (you've probably not heard of it) "apocalypse now" i realized that i'm so evil that i shouldn't exist. but then i realized what could make me deserve to live on this planet: rock n roll music.

[lexdelioncourt]

I really want S3 to just be a whole season of these messy vampires calling each other out on their petty hypocrisy. Like the truly evil stuff they do? Whatever. Them all being massive hypocrites? Hilarious.

Like Louis meeting Gabrielle and turning to Lestat like: So you told me I have to cut my family off but you made your mom a vampire? 🤨

Lestat finding out about past-DM and turning to Armand like: so it was heresy for ME to take a mortal lover but YOU were basically married to a human for 12 years? 🤨

Daniel catching Louis coming out of Lestat's dressing room with his pants undone like: I thought you were companion enough for yourself? 🤨

Armand turning to Daniel when he remembers their history like: the whole "shared a boyfriend" thing isn't so funny now is it? 🤨

[dykerightsmp3]

iwtv universe dashboard simulator

girlbossclaudia reblogged

🐉 personafinterest Follow

If you consider yourself a 'shipper' of ANY of the dynamics in Daniel Molloy's new book unfollow me and I'm not kidding. You read a book about toxic and abusive relationships and decided to sexualize them that's on you

🩻 skeletalextractions

'don't sexualize them' is crazy. he describes one of them as doing 24/7 bdsm and describes the other couple's sex scenes in detail, multiple times

🐉 personafinterest Follow

an old man being a weirdo freak doesnt mean you have to be. he has two pulitzers and you have an ao3 account

🦚 strayitalianflamingo

do not understand vampstat's agreeing to participate in this book At All because why would you not want yourself to be cast as louis, the guy who actually got interviewed and got fucked over at every turn. at least armand eats crypto bros. what has lestat done except domestic violence and child neglect

🎆 magicalgirl Follow

sick and tired of seeing this propaganda on my dashboard. first of all it's ARMAND who abuses louis, not lestat, as you can CLEARLY tell if you actually pay any attention to the book's second half. louis isn't a reliable narrator; that's the whole point. armand just deluded him into thinking lestat had done worse than he had

🏆 vampjailbait Follow

lestat literally drops him hundreds of feet from the air causing his own daughter to orchestrate his murder. HOW would a man they had not met yet be to blame for this

🎆 magicalgirl Follow

it's a gothic horror FIRST of all and armand can manipulate memories, canonically, so I'm not sure why we would assume the truth of any of this. it's so clear that lestat is the love of louis's life, the book is a love story, and if you're not willing to see that you don't get it

🤍 johnwilliamwaterwhore

lestat was born with glass bones and paper skin and every morning he breaks his legs and at night he lies awake in agony until his heart attacks put him to sleep

🦚 strayitalianflamingo

does anyone in this thread smoke weed

strayitalianflamingo reblogged

🪻 bluelotushbo

personally I would deeply love to believe this is all real because if so all of these people may be the funniest people to ever exist. one of them has been alive since the 1700s and has decided his calling is to be a pop artist. and his boyfriend is a vegetarian art dealer who was the dom in 24-7 bdsm with a theater cult leader who he ghosted in like 1810. that's so epic

🏆 vampjailbait Follow

stfu you were posting lestat rpf like a week ago

🪻 bluelotushbo

🧛‍♀️ vampstatsmommy

Ordered my TVL merch today and the mug has the actual texture of blood on it. Epic

vampstatsmommy reblogged

🏞 loustatsno1ho Follow

okay we don't actually know much beyond that it was in the summer but happy death month to lestat! lestat de lioncourt has officially been dead for 231 slutty, slutty years 🎉

#wish I believed in this shit yall seem so happy.

🤵🏾‍♀️ girlbossclaudia

honestly if you read that book and you like a single one of them I don't trust u. I'll never forgive them for what they did to claudia

#louis i would forgive you but she's dead and can't join me so :(

strayitalianflamingo reblogged mutualaidmutuals

🏳️‍🌈 l4sbiancannibals Follow

they should make lestat a guest judge on drag race

🐠 lestatsporecleanseroil

it actually pisses me off sooo bad that he’s in a gay PR relationship with some twink who looks like his love interest from his fucking fictional vampire book. Girl didn’t straight people corner the market on this

🦋 falloutbitch Follow

is this about tvl or dan molloy

🐠 lestatsporecleanseroil

this is how im finding out vampire interviewed author has a fucking 20yearold twink boyfriend who looks like the sexy evil guy from his book I can't do this anymore

lestathater420 reblogged

��� skeletalextractions

honestly wish the book weren't fake bc if it weren't this would be sooo camp. imagine you break up this 500 year old guy's marriage 2 separate times and he's like I simply must have you

#feel like armand would do this as a character

lestatsporecleanseroil reblogged 69ingvampires

🛜 69ingvampires

say what u will about dan malloy but inventing vampirism to justify an age gap relationship is maybe the funniest thing anyone will ever do

♻️ malloy_bot Follow

Malloy.

🛜 69ingvampires

why the fuck did you take the time to make this

♻️ malloy_bot Follow

got bored

#just like louis in that damn investment property...

🌇 literarysalontakes

Much as the PR stunt has given it a bad rap, the book’s exploration of both the experience of Creole men in New Orleans at the turn of the century, as well as the experience of the colonial subject in the Renaissance era, is genuinely very interesting. Making up a fictional abusive relationship between the two characters exemplifying these themes and using the ways in which each of them have been devalued to draw into that is sort of insane but it really works! The publicity shtick is nuts but the book itself is actually fantastic and soo worth your time

#also claudia makes me deeply insane. essay about her forthcoming

jobsearchreputationera reblogged

🛍️ swiftietwiftie Follow

if you're somehow supporting the vampire lestat in this beef — which by the way, he's again picking with a woman — you need to be fully aware that the man you're supporting is not just parodying A Generic Vampire: he's a walking caricature of bisexual and french men, and by insisting he's a real vampire, he's not only playing into harmful and xenophobic stereotypes around Europeans, but sexualizing a genuinely dangerous kink (bloodplay). not to mention the guy he's cosplaying helped murder his own daughter and never cared about the racism his partner experienced, which has really upsetting implications. and don't forget that he shares the name of a guy who was found to have bones at his house :/

🕋 maraschinocherry

baby why didn't we begin with the bones💀

🏞 loustatsno1ho Follow

the bones were from the house of a guy nicknamed Lysander whose actual name was Simon something. this has been debunked a hundred times why do we need to keep having this discourse

🪔 girliepopped Follow

favorite things about this post: - the implication that a rockstar who cosplays a fucking vampire is being problematic by reproducing french stereotypes - the implication that the vampire is an anti european stereotype???? - the random misinformation - the fact that this person clearly didnt even read the book they're complaining about - 'sexualizing a genuinely dangerous kink (bloodplay)'

lestathater420 reblogged

🏄🏻‍♀️ jobsearchreputationera

Taylor would never have been in this beef back when she was dating Joe :/

🕋 maraschinocherry

speaking of tvl yall ever checked out his tiktok videos whys the motherfucker live in a shack. also i know it's for the bit but the 'sad white suburban mom quotes about motherhood' is a lot to take in

🏵 vamplestatpilled

who cares did you see his von dutch lipsync

🐛 wormdyke

white billionaire with a private jet appropriating the struggles of gnc artists... didnt know harry styles and taylor swift had a secret baby

jobsearchreputationera reblogged

🦚 strayitalianflamingo

Who will the Vampire Lestat pick beef with next: poll

UPDATE: Before this poll even closed we got the answer! It was Charli xcx.

[indelicateink]

one must embrace the dichotomy

whenever i see people woobifying lestat and saying he's not to blame etc. i'm just like how can you call yourself a lestat fan. his whole appeal is that he sucks massively but is also so lovable at the same time. you don't get him at all

[licncourt]

Underrated horror aspect of IWTV is Pointe du Lac as a perfect Gothic haunted/evil house. It's crazy the disgusting aura that Pointe du Lac plantation has around it and the way death and evil just consume everything it touches and everyone who makes contact with it. We never see Louis' father, he's dead before the story begins and must have died young if Louis was already settled into the role of plantation master at 25. Paul is taken next, struck down violently by his own madness that seems to have come from nowhere and everywhere. Louis obviously followed him by "dying" and then walking the grounds like death itself along with Lestat. Louis' mother is after that, seemingly also dying suddenly and young since they're all still at the plantation when it happens. The Marquis is the last to go, a final victim of the house and the death inside it.

On top of that, all the death and suffering of the enslaved people on the plantation multiplies and amplifies the effect. It seems like the source of the evil really, the house only existing on the merit of the horrors that occur there. They're not just linked, the house couldn't exist without evil. The house isn't a victim of circumstance, it's a perpetrator in much the same way its master is, violent and exploitative by nature and sustained by blood. Louis and the house are mirrors of one another, two gaping maws devouring mindlessly because it's in their being, it's what they are. Maybe the house is what made Louis that way in the first place, a firstborn child in its own image.

In a way, it's literally true. A privileged upbringing enabled by chattel slavery must be a fundamentally corrupting influence, forever coloring how you view the world and interact with others. How could a person's sense of self not be colored by that? Especially someone with a personality like Louis'? It does seem to have an infectious quality that enters the children of the household when it can, certainly with Louis and Paul at least. Louis' darkness was either crafted or exacerbated by the nature of the house. Paul's lightness was corrupted by it, twisted into something evil that the house could claim, and then, allegedly, it kept him trapped as ghost in the gallery. It would have taken Louis too if Lestat hadn't rescued him from the fire, a second Pointe du Lac boy dead by their own hand.

It all makes me wonder if Lestat somehow, subconsciously found this hotbed of death and pain because he's the same kind of devouring evil too. He wasn't going to be a victim of the house because he was a kindred spirit with it, with Louis. They can exist in harmony with the plantation while everything else is consumed and spat out. Louis describes the state of the house in the interview, large and grand of course, but every so often there's a mention of peeling paint, old whitewash, or vines taking over the walls. The house is entering active decay and the indigo trade itself was starting to fail in the region, the reckoning was always near. By the time the house burned, the oratory had been completely consumed by wilderness too, like a symbol that God had left, if he was ever there.

[brawlingdiscontent]

It's devastating enough that Louis can't say 'I love you,' because they were the last words he said to Paul before Paul walked off the roof, but then you have Florence explicitly accusing him:

"You must've said something to him Louis, you must've said something to him...What did you say to him?... Paul's in hell because of you."

A whole new level of devastation! Florence assumes he taunted Paul ("you always had to have the last word") not knowing as she drives the knife in that the words he said were "I love you"! She has hit on Louis' fear that there's something rotten at his core. And Louis—with his internalized toxic masculinity and homophobia, his pathological need to not appear weak, his fundamentally Catholic worldview—carries the secret feeling (FOR YEARS! ALONE!), from his queerness, his ties to sex work, his exploitation of others, that he is a creature so sinful, so monstrous, so evil, that his love brings death and he's condemned his brother to hell!!

(When he asks 'is my very nature that of the devil?' (ep 3 title) -- it isn't a question about vampirism, not really, it's a question that's fundamentally about who he is at his core.)

And every further hit—when Florence sees the devil in his eyes, when he almost eats his nephew, when his nieces are afraid of him and Grace loses trust in him—serves as validation that this feeling is right and Paul's death was somehow his fault. And the guilt, and the blame, and the self-recrimination compound.

No fucking wonder he can't say 'I love you' to Lestat! No wonder he needs Claudia, the girl who called him an angel—the one person who sees the good in him, who doesn't see evil in his love—to live so badly!

While Lestat also doesn't see his love as evil, Louis sees Lestat as evil, as confirmation of these ideas about himself—think about how Lestat delights in Louis' act of murder and mutilation right before Claudia is made ("companion of the dark gift, finally"). In that scene, Lestat shares his excitement at finally having a partner to match him and fully embrace vampiric life—and all Louis hears is 'everyone was right about you.' And so the full embrace of Lestat's love, of vampirism, feels impossible for Louis as he drowns in his own sense of culpability and his fundamental wrongness.

[angrybubbles]

This has been said by many many people here before but-

We all know Daniel is not the Good Heroic Character, right?

A lot of those traits that could lead to us assigning him that are are because he's the closest to an audience insert and says things we agree with (confirmation bias), rather than because he's a good guy.

He's the Byronic Hero but that doesn't necessarily mean he's "good." It's a Gothic Fiction character role, which means morals are going to sit at a solid grey.

Him pointing out the racism of Louis and Lestat's relationship isn't done to help Louis. He says it belligerently. The tone is off. He's saying it for the audience as much as just... pointing it out in the worst way possible. He's being a dick, even if he's right.

That's the thesis of his character, really. The truth isn't good, it isn't nice, and it can be spat at you like an insult just as easily as a lie can soothe the pain (thematic mirroring with Armand and Daniel here. Delicious).

And there's also the journalism aspect. Journalism isn't a force for good, and it regularly is used for evil. Daniel knows this, and doesn't really give a shit. Once he puts the narrative out there, it's in the readers hands. There's no "good" he's doing here, past sitting on a couch and asking questions to help clarify why Louis wants to tell him all this.The ethics of journalism is a well-worn topic, and Daniel has the career to show he doesn't really care to fit the mold or be "correct" about it.

Daniel is a tool, he's a wedge used to get to the heart of the matter. When he criticizes Louis' idealism, he's not doing it to help Louis find the truth as a friend (not saying they're not friends, but it's not his motivator). He understands this is Louis' narrative, but he has his parallel narrative as well, the "truth" of the matter isn't about truth so much as it's about comparing realities and supporting it with evidence. Daniel being worldly, experienced, and a journalist isn't him saving Louis. He doesn't even want to do that until Armand pisses him off personally, and even then it's not in the "saving" sense as much as the "proving" sense.

As a Leftist reporter who speaks about things people are likely to hide, he's doing it to expose bullshit. To expose lives that no one looks to think about (the Vietnam Vet with his disabled Vietnamese boyfriend, and the single mom working at the titty bar. Even as a kid, he listened to those no one else would think to listen to.) The help is there, but it's a side-effect, not a goal. He's not a white-knight, he's a white guy with a need to stick it to the man (being the "traditional" narrative).

So keep him an asshole. The truth hurts, especially when you dig at it as voraciously as Daniel does.

Also please don't misconstrue this as me saying he's the most truthful character. Again, Gothic character, he's just a force that includes pushing and idealizing truth.

[thevtuberlestat]

list of possible good reasons armand isn't in the s3 promo:

they're committing really hard to his vanishing act

under-qualified intern doing the promo posters asked chat gpt to summarize the show instead of watching it and chat gpt didn't bring him up

armand is a fiction we have all collectively dreamed up on tumblr dot com, unrelated to any real world character or concept

armand is a real person who sued amc and now they're having to respect his privacy

they're replacing him with a different, more evil vampire that has bigger bug eyes and a sadder backstory

lestat would be jealous

they've realized that armand's character arc has reached a perfect conclusion when he got dumped and thrown through that wall, so there's really nowhere else to go with the character

the ghost of anne rice bought his copyright back

they wrote a whole storyline in which armand becomes a pop diva and then belatedly realized they're doing the exact same thing with lestat. after this they wrote a second storyline for armand in which his memoir getting published led all the vampires in the world to try to fight him, but that was kinda redundant because louis was already doing that. they're hurriedly trying to come up with a new storyline for armand and i'm hearing it's going to involve him interviewing vampires

this is all a clever misdirection. armand is actually the only character in season 3

[sizeofyoursoul]

Whatever happens, I shall keep this dog. And I did. And before this story moves any further, let me say something about this dog. He isn't going to do anything in this book. He won't save a drowning baby, or rush into a burning building to rouse the inhabitants from near-fatal sleep. He isn't possessed by an evil spirit; he isn't a vampire dog. He's in this narrative simply because I found him in the snow behind that town house in Georgetown, and I loved him, and from that first moment, he seemed somehow to love me. It was all too true to the blind and merciless laws I believe in-the laws of nature, as men say; or the laws of the Savage Garden, as I call them myself. Mojo loved my strength; I loved his beauty. And nothing else ever really mattered at all.

Lestat about Mojo, The Tale of the Body Thief by Anne Rice

[most-screwed-by-writers-tourney]

Propaganda:

Harrow and Gideon; the power imbalance and pining and inability to communicate and understand each other and oh god the pining they just want to be loved and they're so bad at it

Juri and Shiori: They both love eachother right but shiori is insecure and has comphet and hates juri for being better than her!! It was confirmed in the original dialogue and by the series creator that Shiori does return Juri's feelings, but was antagonistic towards to her because she held Juri in such high regard that when she found out that Juri loved her it made Shiori feel powerful and on more equal ground with Juri than she initially thought, so she tried to maintain that power in the hopes of having Juri to herself

Louis and Lestat: In the original book Lestat literally turns a 5 year old little girl into a vampire to trap Louis in their loveless, abusive relationship, because he knows Louis will worry about Lestat (whom Louis now recognizes as a remorseless monster who sees humans as nothing but food) using this child (Claudia) as a tool and creating the most evil and messed up surrogate child of all time. (He was right, btw, bc she grows into a woman trapped forever in a child's body and hates them both for it. but this isn't about Claudia.)

In the TV series, Lestat is a white devil offering aid, sympathy, and love to a gay, closeted black man in the 1900s. He offers him company, capital, a friend who sees him as an 'equal' Once he turns him into a vampire, his desire to possess and control Louis becomes apparent. He displays TEXTBOOK narcissistic and abusive partner behaviors, apologies for how awful he was, promises to change, makes romantic gestures to try and smooth things over. They start having an 'open relationship' where Lestat loses it over Louis taking advantage of being able to see other people. Lestat writes a love song for him and sends Louis a recording sung by the woman he's having an affair with; Louis confronts him at the singer's apartment and they have angry sex in her bed.

Late in the TV series, they get in another fight, and Lestat literally drops Louis out of the sky and leaves him paralyzed, with Claudia (in this adaptation, a young woman who is more like a sister/mother to Louis) to nurse him back to health and re-teach him how to walk. Louis still takes him back.

In both the book and the TV series, Claudia convinces Louis that the only way they can be free is to kill Lestat. In both, they poison him, slit his throat, and dump his body in a swamp. In the TV version, Louis sobs over Lestat's dead body, refusing to allow Claudia to burn him and ensure he can't come back from it. (Spoilers: he gets better. and he's pissed about it! He follows them to Europe.) Their gay divorce drama eventually results in the destruction of an entire enclave of over 400 vampires in Paris and the death of their surrogate daughter.

[savagewilderness]

Nicolas' Turning Random thoughts...

One horrible realisation I've had from exploring Nicolas' turning...

There's zero rapture in it. And that's how Anne Rice wrote it. Anne, who writes rapture in all other turnings I can think of, no matter how unwanted, no matter how violating, how like rape, how much the predator is a monster... she writes rapture. She writes ecstasy even in most deaths of humans (for the vampire, but often for the victim, too.)

But Nicki's turning? There is no rapture for Lestat, and none for Nicki...

And there's lots to unpick in it... but most tragically of all... I feel like although Lestat deeply loved Nicolas, I feel like it might mean that Lestat did not love Nicolas unconditionally...? Which I just hate the thought of... and yet...

He loved him, yes. So much so he thinks about him still now. But how does Lestat think of Nicolas for eternity? I think Nicolas remains kind of what he was here already - a cipher to Lestat's own (fear of his) lost humanity.

But I think Lestat in that baby-vampire era needed Nicolas to remain his last attachment to his own humanity. If Nicki was still human, somehow Lestat still had a real, tangible connection to his own human self? Lestat could somehow feel human still.

And so he must keep Nicki away from all supernatural things not only to protect his life - but to keep his fully human nature uncorrupted?

And I think this need was greater than his love. And in a horrible way it ties into Nicki's deepest fear....

Lestat perceives art as good if it moves and if it is *human*. Nicki, though, feels he has failed if Lestat/anyone *only* hears beauty in his music when it is hewn from despair. All he needs is for his music to be true... and his despair is not beautiful. So if what is heard is only beauty, Nicki feels unseen.

But I think Baby Vampire Lestat holds human Nicki as beautiful even as he knows he is destroying him, even as he sees his destruction occurring... he sees Nicki's destruction even as somehow beautiful art - as it is still human... Nicki is still human... right until it is too late.... and there is only death or dissolution for Nicki…

And that's literally an escalation of Nicki's fears about art turned into Lestat's perception of his entire self?

And, like - think on Lestat's joy when he stands outside Nicki's apartment and Nicki still senses Lestat's *human* self... Lestat *needs* that from Nicki... and I think he thinks he can somehow preserve or save or rescue that Nicki... but really the human Nicolas died the same day the human Lestat vanished with no explanation. That's when Nicolas, too was set on a new path that only gets increasingly impossible for there to be any good end to.

And then in turning Nicki into a vampire, Lestat is literally killing everything he loves about Nicki... and confirming Nicki's own deep-seated fears that all he is is a chasm of evil at the same time. Lestat essentially is murdering Nicki and the irony is it sort of would have been kinder to both Nicolas and himself to have just killed him. But he cannot as he does love him...

And Nicki, I'm sure would imagine there would have been rapture in his turning... as I am sure he knew that rapture even when violated and tortured by The Children of Darkness. We know he did, because Lestat comments on it.

And I'm sure Nicki would imagine the feeling would be deeper with Lestat.

And I am sure Lestat would imagine it would be so with Nicki for him too.

But it isn't - not for either of them.

It is HORROR. It is DEATH. It is the murder of a soul in a way vampire turnings aren't usually....

I mean.. we can also say that at this time, Lestat was so young in mortal years and a baby in vampire years, and had suffered a huge amount of trauma himself. So he always is trying to protect Nicolas by staying away from him.

But there are plenty of times before he turns Nicki when Lestat shows he understands how he is driving Nicki mad in how distant to him he remains. But he doesn't do anything at all about it.

The thing is, Nicolas' mind was always fragile and he would never have lived long - as mortal or vampire... but the real tragedy as I see it is not Nicolas' death... rather that it ended without love. Because there was a way that even though Nicolas was always destined to die, love did not need to die. It could have ended in love. There was a way that could have been.

Well... these are just random train-of-thought thoughts I have been having. (Not present in the thing I am writing at the moment... but rather just inspired by my horror at the mutually terrible and utterly alienating and death-feeling, revulsion of Nicolas' turning... which... y'know ENJOY when I eventually get around to posting that.... It is awful. For everyone.)

But even if you disagree with all of this.... are there other vampire turnings that involve zero rapture to them? Working on this one, I note that even from Lestat's description of Nicolas' turning, once he has made Nicki a vampire - in the very first second - when Nicki can't yet stand to support himself - Lestat himself describes that he holds Nicki up at arm's length... like the instant Nicki is a vampire... Lestat is utterly revulsed by the sight of him already - immediately as he turns him. And I am sure Nicki would feel that too.

Of course Lestat is repulsed! Lestat has killed what he loved in Nicki - his humanity... His soul... And yet, Nicki's humanity was destroying him...

And that was not art. It was REAL.

THE TRAGEDY!

Well, this is just train-of-thought commenting here... but y'know.

And it is no criticism of Lestat... he was a baby vampire and really young as a mortal... and Nicki always tried to his the depth of his darkness from Lestat... so it isn't Lestat's fault that there was so much he didn't know. But it's still Such Tragedy.... no?

But I am sure many disagree - I'm intrigued to hear your thoughts of the lack of rapture in Nicolas' turning for both parties... and on your thinking on why, or on other such turnings that come to mind where it was this way...???

And also... the utter lack of intimacy in Nicki's turning... even though Vampire Lestat does feel both lust towards human Nicki and obviously vampiric predatory desire.

Oof... there's so much going on, isn't there!

But it's that complete lack of rapture... and that instant revulsion... and I guess only added to as Vampire Nicki is pure-vampire... he *is* Lestat's greatest fear. And Lestat created that....

It's so Gothic and AWFUL!

And why... because often the implication is that the rapture and ecstasy is something inherent in The Blood... but... rather... maybe rapture in Anne's vampire turnings isn't just biological or supernatural, but requires some kind of authentic connection or recognition.

Even Magnus, total monster that he is who rapes Lestat into vampirism, sees something in Lestat and grants him immortality as dark gift.

But Lestat, in turning Nicolas, is acting against his own deeper knowledge of what Nicolas needs... He's enacting a kind of spiritual violence... is it that that poisons the very essence of the transformation?

The absence of rapture becomes a symptom of the fundamental wrongness of the act itself?

I always wonder - that line in TVL where Lestat says it "seemed" that Gabrielle said to Lestat "Do not do this thing..." But Gabrielle doesn't actually *say* it. Does Gabrielle speak it in Lestat's mind?

Or was it always actually in Lestat's own mind? Did he know... probably on a level he couldn't consciously admit to himself that he shouldn't turn Nicolas?

But of course.... what else could Lestat do? I mean... could Lestat himself have survived either killing Nicolas, or leaving him as a human and having to watch Nicki's descent go beyond what even Lestat could perceive as artistic beauty into his eventual utter destruction?

No. I don't think Lestat could have borne it....

But that's the thing.. it's a tragedy for Lestat... but for Nicolas it's more than that.  It kills love.  It annihilates love.

Think about what Nicolas experiences: the person he loves most, who claims to love him, who he's been desperately trying to reach and understand... that person ultimately sees him as something to be preserved like a beautiful object rather than truly known. And then, in the act that should be the ultimate intimacy - the sharing of immortal life - there's nothing. No rapture, no connection, just immediate revulsion and distance.

For Nicolas, it would confirm every terrible thing he believed about himself - that he's fundamentally unlovable, that even his music (his soul's expression) is misunderstood, that what others call love is really just their own needs projected onto him. 

What worse could you do to someone that you genuinely love?

Gosh, I hope Lestat never thought about it this deeply from Nicki's point of view (happily, Lestat generally avoids this degree of introspection other than of his own mind I think, so hopefully he remains oblivious to this level of Nicolas' experience... if you're out there, Lestat DO NOT THINK ABOUT IT, hahahahahah!)

And again... Lestat was simply young and in an impossible scenario and traumatised and didn't have the capacity to do more than he did.

But it doesn't alter the result....