#laios has a best friend and it’s shuro

[ellaphnt]

It’s so funny to me that Shuro’s company made Laios that happy.

And then later it’s like, Shuro ate rice every meal? “omg shuro loved rice [sentimental]”

Shuro hug? SHOCK. FLABBERGASTED. Friendship RECIPROCATED???

Laios just thinks Shuro is the coolest person ever, and that opinion surprisingly never changes.

And I’m all for fights that lead to stronger friendships. There’s a politeness/barrier that doesn’t really go away until you fight with someone. I’m not saying fights are good, I would rather do anything else than fight with my friends. But I will say my closer friendships all had their tough spots. You work through them together.

Edit: I forgot people don’t know what a squish is PFFFT a squish is a platonic crush

[astronomical-bagel]

genuinely can’t understand character hate in a well-written show. I mean, I can understand here when the character is horribly written because that means they mess up the story, but. In a good show? What are you on about? You’re mad that they were an obstical to the hero’s journey? You’re mad that two character’s flaws interact in a way you don’t like? You’re mad about conflict? Dude. Dude that’s the whole point of a story. A journey without obstacles isn’t a journey anymore it’s just a walk down the road. A plot without conflict isn’t a story anymore it’s just some guy who doesn’t do anything.

[alphaketoglutaricacid]

Also i find her naive desperation (cant find the right words for it) to see her adventuring crew as sworn friends wholl go thru hell together even tho shes the newest addition soooo telling. Shes had trouble making friends her whole life she was really hoping! And even the ones who left are willing to go to hell for her n the crew so its not like its not true. Its just not like how it is in her mangas. I think theres a good chance she n namari become like closer after the end of the series.

[jewishdragon]

If you didnt believe Laios was autistic before todays episode i hope it clears that up for you

we were first shown his special interest, a very autistic trait to have. We get to see him indulge in his interest, we get to see him happy.

but this episode contains the scene that makes it clear Laios cannot understand social cues, tone of voice, sarcasm, or subtlety. He actively suffers socially with other humans.

Shuro is pissed Laios didnt pick up on the fact that he hated Laios, because he was being passive aggressive (at best, Shuro bottled up a lot of feelings), and said verbally he was Laios' friend. Laios takes things at face value, if someone says "im your friend" that's what he believes is true.

He hates that Laios "gets to be genuine". I hate the way he says that "gets" as if its a privilege for Laios. It's a privilege for Shuro who is nobility and has his behavior and emotions stifled. Laios doesnt understand that others are NOT genuine. he's not from that world.

that's why Laios asks "why didnt you TELL me?" and Shuro says it should have been obvious.

it was NOT obvious to Laios, not at all.

And also, that was who Laios thought was his FIRST friend on the island. he thought he made a friend, something actively difficult for him to do.

it devastated him to learn that he was wrong the entire time.

[bravesaboteur]

The more I think about it, the more Laios and Falin's different perceptions of their parents are a case of "same parents, different childhood".

Whenever someone asks Laios about his and Falin's family, he comments on how they treated Falin but never comments about how how their childhood affected him - in fact, he kind of glosses over it. It's Falin that everyone is rallying to save, it's Falin that's Marcille's friend, it's Falin that everyone has a positive opinion of - he's just the weirdo brother that gets to share some of her light sometimes. He's the one who's only tolerated when he's useful in a dungeon. Falin's treatment is a large part of the reason that he left, but it's the symptom of a larger issue.

When we see Laios' thoughts of his parents in his nightmares, it's all about the expectations that he's supposed to live up to: the expectation to stop being "childish", the expectation to get married (to who his parents picked) and have children, the expectation to take over from his father as the village chief, the expectation to adapt to something that he isn't able to be in the way that people want him to. And these are all things that he has had to be told in some way: he had to be told that Shuro didn't like him, he had to be told that told that the gold-peelers were taking advantage of him - these aren't thoughts that just appeared on their own, these are all failures that someone has explicitly pointed out to him and they haunt him. Some of the things he considers his biggest failures are his failure to provide for and protect Falin and those have very tangible examples he can point to.

We get a glimpse of what happens when he fails to live up to his father's expectations when Falin is born. He expects a certain reaction from Laios and when he fails to give that reaction he physically puts him down, dismisses him, and underestimates how much he understands.

And that's something that's shown to be a bit of a sore point for him - people thinking that he doesn't understand something because he doesn't express himself like people expect. The few times we see him snap at people are because people think he isn't understanding something because he isn't reacting "normally".

On Falin's side, the expectations seem to be a lot different - she's the younger one, for one, she's a girl, and she was so young when the fallout from her having magic happened. She too had an arranged engagement, but that was broken off when she was sent away to magic school and since then, their parents only seem to be passively involved in her life. She's mostly been freed of the expectations that their parents had for her in her village - she won't be coming back after all. She understands why they sent her away, she wasn't completely oblivious to the villagers treatment of her and it was, arguably, for the best so she is at peace with what their relationship is for now. But she still wants to go to her hometown and see for herself with adult eyes because she has never really had the space to do that.

I don't think their parents are inherently evil people - the truth is probably somewhere between Laios and Falin's version of the story, Laios' side tinged by too much cynicism and Falin's by too much naivete.

It just strikes me that when he tried to provide the "normal" way he failed, but given the space to do something similar to what people expected of him, but in his own way, he succeeded. He isn't perfect but his efforts are ultimately fruitful and he is able to carve out a place for himself, Falin, and others who had been ostracized like them to call home.

[xenodile]

"Shuro loves Falin for the same reasons he hates Laios" Completely and utterly wrong, could not be further off base.

I get the impression a lot of people watching Dungeon Meshi as it airs, or are a bit removed from its original manga run, have forgotten that Laios and Falin being monster freaks wasn't actually apparent until the events of the story. The only person that knew Falin loved monsters as much as Laios was Marcille because they were best friends at school.

Once Laios and Falin were in an adventuring party together, they both had public facing personas because they had both learned through their separate upbringings that being super interested in monsters and dungeons wasn't normal. Laios is the blunt but well meaning, outspoken and opinionated guy we all know, but Falin was way more withdrawn and soft-spoken, non-confrontational, easy to get along with. Everyone that interacted with Falin would say she's a sweet, gentle girl that everyone likes. Because she was, frankly, kind of a doormat.

The whole thing with Toshiro's infatuation with Falin is he doesn't actually know her. She is outwardly very polite and reserved, and that appeals to Toshiro because it meshes with his cultural sensibilities and how he was taught people are supposed to behave. Then he sees her marveling at a caterpillar in a private moment and decides on the spot that she's the ideal woman and proposes without actually talking to or getting to know her.

And his lack of understanding of Falin as a person is brought to the forefront in every action he takes after she gets eaten. He leaves the party and makes no attempt to contact the two people that Falin loves the most. Whether it's a matter of him just not knowing how much Falin cares about her brother and Marcille, or actively avoiding Laios to rescue Falin himself, he's demonstrating that he doesn't actually know what's important to her or understand how she feels.

Then when he meets Laios's party on the lower floors and they go over what happened, it's made even more blatant that Toshiro's affection is shallow and half-baked. He came into the dungeon a week too late and neglected his health the whole way down, so he was in no state to actually try and save Falin when he got there. When Laios talks about eating monsters, something Falin was thrilled about, Toshiro is disgusted. He threatens to kill Laios and turn Marcille in, which would never fly with Falin. His anger at the use of black magic is entirely based in his selfish idea of Falin being tainted and blaming Laios and Marcille for "ruining" his attempt to rescue her, as Kabru points out that Toshiro would have done the exact same thing in their shoes and that he's being a hypocrite. To say nothing of how he'd rather kill Falin after she's been transformed and "put her to rest" rather than put any effort into saving her, because that would require further involvement from Laios and Marcille and methods that Toshiro doesn't approve of.

And there's the fight he has with Laios, and Toshiro's subsequent confession that he had hoped to just take Falin home with him. He at no point gives consideration to what Falin feels or what she might want, only what he has decided about her based on the most surface level observation. Just like how his problem with Laios arises from his refusal to just talk to him about his boundaries, he has no actual connection with the woman he claims to love because he just wouldn't actually talk to her.

Like it's not a coincidence that every time his attraction to Falin is brought up, another character goes "yeah he's being weird about it".

[malewifesband]

as big as the friend confession scene is i love this part best. laios is ofc still under the impression that kabru likes monster food and went thru this big effort to make something special for him and then kabru goes out of his way to be so warm and sweet, and frankly a bit flirtatious like i know he thinks that exit killed it

and hes kinda right bc laios cannot stop staring after him when he leaves and i cannot attribute all that to him being confused about what kabru meant by "dont forget me next time". like laios means it if he says something like "meeting you was the best part of this" those are not empty words even if hes under a false impression about kabru--i dont think its just that kabru shared his interest that has his attention either. i think its bc kabru really engaged with him. i dont think his opinion wouldve changed much if kabru said "nahhhh im good i wont eat a monster cool for you tho have fun" instead of saying he would try it

(and he really is trying the 'laugh at anything he says so he'll feel special' strat here huh.....)

and kabru despite being a stranger he helped get thru to shuro about falins resurrection

and he does it with a sensitivity and care that laios wishes he was capable of and he know it limits him as a leader

the thought laios keeps having about kabru isnt "wow he loves monsters too!" its "wow he is sooooo nice :3" which he is! at this stage he likes kabru bc he feels heard by him and kabru has qualities he knows he lacks but admires greatly and didnt make fun of him or call him weird for his interest in monsters

the way kabru acts and thinks about laios at this point feels allegorical to how people feel in new relationships. can i trust you? are you who you seem? if i tell you how ive been hurt, will you use this to hurt me or to protect me? i dont know yet, but i like you so far, so im going to show you the self that i think you'll like best. i want to impress you. i want you to trust me so maybe i can trust you

so much of dungeon meshi is about the way that we accidentally hurt our loved ones because we cant always understand them, or we dont know whats best for them when theyve been hurt in such complex ways, or because were too scared of being hurt again to tell them not to press into the bruise (see: chimera falin, falin giving up parts of her life to suit/protect marcille and laios bc she loves them, laios driving marcille deeper into the winged lions grip TWICE with his advice in the nightmares and again with the dungeon rabbits, everything chilchuck has ever done in his whole life, laios' father's everything also, and this is a labru post so ofc kabru lying about wanting to eat monsters to impress laios) i wouldnt be surprised if the allegory was intentional

anyways this part of their relationship budding into a toxic little flower theyll have to prune later is very cute to me and i really like reading it again knowing how they turn their relationship around later into one built on a mutual understanding and trust

[ladyloveandjustice]

tbh, Marcille does infantilize Falin and deny her agency at times-- it's something that definitely intentional in how their relationship is written, It's a flaw and (imo) a way that Marcille also holds herself back from acknowledging her feelings for Falin, which I think she has a hard time acting on because of her own web of issues.

Most importantly, I think the reason she's subconsciously afraid to act on her feelings and the reason she infantilizes her are one and the same, tied to her biggest hang up: Falin's going to die long before Marcille does, and Marcille cannot accept her own feelings because she's terrified of that. She also does the "oh you're just a kid who doesn't know better" thing for the same reason. To constantly remind herself that Falin has a shorter lifespan so she can keep herself from thinking of Falin a certain way, to remind herself that a romantic relationship would bring pain. To keep them on unequal levels. To try to dismiss the feelings she has as meaningless because look how "young" Falin is, look how short her life is.

Marcille is obsessed with control and deathly afraid of abandonment. So yeah, she's controlling in her relationship with Falin. And significantly, Falin is not the only person she infantilizes and tries to control. She does the same for ALL her friends and loved ones of other races. She often talks to them like they're kids, decides for them that their short lifespans are sad and they would be happier living a long time like her, that they need to be saved by her that's why she should be in control--because she doesn't want to lose them. Because she wants them by her side forever.

That's obviously something she needs to overcome for Marcille x Falin to actually work and uh, significantly, she does overcome that!! Laios and the others help her accept that death is outside of her control and she can't decide for them what's best. And then she let's go and says she'll accept it if Falin doesn't make it back. She now understands that short lives don't make the others lesser, that she has no control, that she has to accepts the terror of death and fear of loss. Now she can accept and love them as they are, as equals to her.

And in the unoffically-translated post canon material, she also lets Falin give her answer to Shuro (despite CLEARLY being outraged at Shuro and terrified she'd say yes), and accepts that she wants to go travel and get to know who she is without her brother or Marcille, because she's never really done anything for herself. And I think that's really, really good for Falin! That's necessary for her! She's spent her life in the shadow of both of them, and it's time to take some Falin time.

And Marcille lets her. She learns to let go. But that doesn't mean Falin doesn't love Marcille. She specifically says she wants to come back to Laios and Marcille. And I think when she does, the obstacles will be gone. Marcille now understands Falin as not a child, but someone whose potential death she can accept. Nothing is in the way of her feelings. And Falin, now more independent, still thinks of Marcille as home and wants to be with her. That's the journey they take and when they'll truly be able to have a complete relationship and express their love.

[dunmeshistash]

Thoughts about orcs and their culture? I talked with friends lately about how the Shuro/Laios fight, occurring not that long after Leed/Chilchuck conversation, only strengthens one of big themes of DunMeshi (closely related to the depiction of autistic experience): that direct communication is best communication. And I noticed that orcs seem to be culturally most straightforward of the races: they say things as they see them, value loyalty and look down upon deception. While Zon held a lot of prejudice against elves and tallmen, he ultimately appreciated Marcille's and Laios' attitudes and sincerity. And Leed read between the lines of what Chilchuck was telling her, only to call him out on not admitting that he cares for his friends. I'm curious if you share similar observations and/or have more thoughts on that :)

Ooh That's true! I hadn't noticed!

I didn't realize but here Zon seems to respect that Laios was honest and straight forward, besides the meal they had together and Marcille not backing down probably warmed him up to them.

They also seem way kinder than people in universe give them credit for considering this extra from the adventurers bible

They took Senshi in and were even willing to treat him like one of the kids outside the hierarchy for a long time. Senshi's line of "So I decided to leave while we'd all be sorry to say good-bye." is really cute too. Plus he has known Zon since he was a kid, I think that's why he was so relaxed and not worried when they were captured, he knows this kid.

I agree with you! They really seem to be honest and straight forward, and Chilchuck got what you get for trying to be tsundere in front of an orc.

[bloodyshadow1]

look, the thing with Toshiro is that he is not a bad guy, I don't think he would work out with Falin no matter the case, but he's not a bad guy. He is just a guy in a foreign land, and he was sheltered as a rich guys son who has retainers instead of friends, he doesn't know how to act towards people.

He is friends with Laios, yes things in ep 17 came to a boil and Toshiro finally exploded, but that doesn't mean he really hates him. He might not be the best friend Laios imagined him to be, but he doesn't hate the guy despite what he said. Yes, I'm sure he was genuinely bothered by the way Laios acts like the rest of the party, sans Falin, but him exploding at Laios because it's the worst possible time is not the same as him secretly always hating him.

At the time things break bad, had just had a party wipe where not only did they lose to a dragon, the woman he was infatuated with didn't leave with them. He did what he thought was best, get skilled retainers and head back into the dungeon. He has been fighting monsters through the dungeon, not resting, sleeping or eating for days. He finds out the same girl he likes was revived with dark magic, then turned into a Chimera that tears through his retainers, and almost kills them. As he's panicking Laios keeps saying the wrong thing at the wrong time and he finally explodes.

People are not just who they are at their worst moments, just like they're not who they only who they are at the best moments in their life. He's not an asshole for believing Marcille is dangerous because of her using dark magic when he thinks it turned Falin into a chimera and the social norms is dark magic is evil. Especially when Falin became the most powerful monster in the dungeon capable of using magic that slaughtered his retainers and every other adventurer in a few minutes.

*Spoilers for the manga*

When he's had time to think and get some rest and food, Toshiro is on Laios' side, willing to fight elite elven dungeon specialists on his behalf.

Also I know Laios is the fandom's precious little autistic bean, but he isn't guiltless in their relationship. Sure, there was not a malicious bone in Laios' body, but it doesn't change that he saw a foreigner in a bar and blasted him with questions without asking him his name. Yes, Toshiro should have explained, but everyone in the Touden party is neurodivergent, you cannot change my mind. Sometimes it is easier to avoid awkwardness by not correcting people when they get your name wrong. Toshiro didn't think he's be a part of Laios' party for years, he thought it was a meeting with a stranger in a bar, and then he's Shuro for 2 years to everyone in the party and the adventurers community.

People are complicated, and they should be allowed to be. Toshiro might not get a lot of chapters, but it is clear he is not just some asshole who has secretly hated Laios, it's just at the worst moment of his life after a series of terrible weeks things come to a boil. The whole manga/anime has more nuanced characters than any I've read/watched.

[laikabu]

re: my thoughts on laios’s sexuality (long post ahead lol)

let me start this post with this. first, this contains a lot of references to the new adventurer’s bible world guide book released last february. i can read japanese, but i’m sure they’re translated somewhere. general spoiler warning in case. also… i am ESL, so sorry for any grammar errors

second, if you’re on the team that insists laios doesn’t care about humans enough to form relationships, either read the manga again or at the very least read this thread.

last, please don’t chime in with your acearo headcanons on this post. there’s already a majority of posts here that insist laios is acearo and that anything else is impossible. i don’t like it the same way i don’t like when someone declares they hc marcille as bisexual to a poster who reads her as lesbian. i already have enough people here who declare he’s ace on my own art. at least people on twitter of all places don’t do this sort of thing to me. nothing in this manga is canon, you can headcanon anything i won’t get mad if you hc him as bi or something. just. don’t be weird on my post.

okay. trust me, i love women, and i love the idea of making my favs women lovers but the idea of laios being gay really appeals to me because of his background. this isn’t fueled by yaoi since i don’t even ship the only m/m relationship i bring up here, i just think it adds a nice layer to his disconnect with his own humanity

i do think laios has a very abstract relationship with his sexuality for a multitude of reasons. he grew up in a very conservative backwater village. he has a hard time recognizing his own feelings towards others just as much as vice versa. i don’t really care for the “laios is a monsterfucker” agenda people are pushing but i do think he’d engage in sexual thoughts in his own weird way, i won’t deny his deviantart fetish shit

as an autistic person myself, i relate to how he’d prioritize his special interest over social interactions. after all, he was fixated on monster food so he’s distracted from dark thoughts. he’s not an actual glutton

he’s shy around women, but i don’t think it’s out of attraction. i just think it’s because he’s awkward and doesn’t want to be seen as a threat. there’s a couple of times when, out of armor, he deliberately tries to make himself look smaller and nonthreatening.

he didn’t show any interest towards ashivia (the hubby hunter girl marcille replaced) and just humored her because she wouldn’t leave him alone. his other party members thought he was giving her special treatment so he had to tell her he “doesnt want to give her special treatment anymore”(even though he never did), so she left

ashivia did her best to butter herself up to laios and he didn’t care, but laios thought shuro was his bestest friend in the whole world because he was too much of a pushover to reject him. ironically… what ashivia did to him parallels what he was doing to shuro

also… yeah sorry i keep bringing up that one comic of laios saying if he were falin he’d marry shuro and then begging him to take him back to his country, or that comic of laios wondering why he doesn’t like him(and then the first two questions he asks the magic mirror was what if he or shuro were women). i don’t even ship them! but it’s not a reach to assume that he likes men because of this, even if it’s kinda played like a joke(after all,a lot of people like chilshi even though their ‘shippy’ interaction was played as a joke)

of course, given the setting, i don’t think knows he’s gay, he wouldn’t have the vocabulary to label himself. i do want to dance around with the idea of him forcibly confronting his own sexuality after years of yaad pressuring him to produce heirs lol. laios might not be cishet but he’s a king so he rdgaf about that right now. i’m open to him having female consorts for political reasons, but i don’t think he’s into women, is all.

before anyone brings up his succubus… god forbid an author makes hetbait. a part of the plot twist was that not-marcille wasn’t the only succubus enticing laios, his other party members were copied too. she was the only one who approached him. also… succubi aren’t always inherently romantic. once it realized marcille didn’t work, it switched to appeal to his desire to be a monster.

[batneko]

for the last couple days I've been thinking about a Dungeon Meshi AU with the girl version of Laios from the magic mirror bonus page. Like, let's say she got married at 16, and ten years and two kids later she's escorting her youngest to magic school and planning to visit with Falin for a couple days before heading home. She finds out Falin and Marcille (I can't decide if everybody should be gender-swapped or only Laios. If Falin is The Boy he'd probably be expected to become village chief despite having creepy ghost magic, but maybe Laios's husband turned out to be a good leader so there's an unspoken "if Falin doesn't come back would that really be so bad?" among the villagers. But if Falin and Marcille are still girls that could lead to some interesting Deconstructing Gender Norms stuff. I just don't know!) have been planning to go to The Island and study a real dungeon, and instantly flips from quiet and demure (masking HARD) to excited and full of energy, and Marcille asks why Laios doesn't just come along. It'll only be a few months, both kids are in boarding schools, won't her husband understand?

The answer to that is no, but Laios has been dreading going back home for exactly the reason that it'll just be her and her husband now, no more kids as a buffer. She'll have nothing to do but take care of the house and be a Good Wife. Her husband isn't a bad person, but he's never understood her and never bothered to try, he just gets frustrated that she can't remember their guests' names, that she only wants to talk about "weird" things, that she cares more about her letters from Falin than she does taking care of her appearance.

Laios lets just enough of this slip that Marcille misunderstands and thinks her husband is a brute, and Falin has always known that being a housewife didn't suit Laios at all, so neither of them argue when Laios decides to abandon her marriage with only a brief letter back home.

On the trip Laios starts to learn magic, but she turns out to take to combat even better. Her encyclopedic (literally, it all comes from encyclopedias) knowledge of monster anatomy means she'll have the best chance out of the three of them at physically fighting things off if they can't find a trustworthy fighter to hire. But overall she's responsible for organizing their supplies and planning the expeditions. Having experience running a household comes in handy!

Of course, the three of them are pretty naive, and they run through Marcille's savings faster than expected, but they're all so interested in the dungeon that they're willing to stick out the tough times. Laios is so happy to finally be able to Be Herself around people that she starts talking about cooking and eating monsters without realizing that's a step too far for most folks. Falin is, of course, completely supportive, but Marcille and Namari shut it down most of the time. (I'm not sure where Shuro is or if he should be gender-swapped as well. Chilchuck wouldn't join the party until they've become successful enough to pay his rates. If he's gender-swapped this is her way of dealing with an empty nest.) However one day Senshi happens to overhear Laois talking about it while they pass each other and they become fast friends. Marcille isn't sure if s/he wants Laios's obsession with monsters-as-food to continue, but can't resist encouraging this because forbidden love affairs are peak romance. But no they're genuinely just friends and the thought never crosses either of their minds.

Marcille has no idea Laios has actually already had a couple of extramaritals with orc men.

(that's all I got so far!)

[grimrester]

i love farcille but i have Thoughts

i don't think marcille is even close to accepting any romantic feelings towards OR from falin by the end of the manga, or even in the supplemental comics set after the manga.

marcille has huge issues and misconceptions around age. part of her still sees falin as the young girl she met in school. when she hears about falin and laios's parents' age, she immediately calls them "those kids." she's objectively wrong here, but her perception of time and maturity is totally warped. she uses her own numerical age as a benchmark for maturity - with her own current age representing "totally 100% mature." anyone younger than her is "a kid." this is completely flawed thinking in two ways. firstly, half-elves age differently and inconsistently, so her numerical benchmarks don't make sense for literally any other race. secondly, marcille is NOT MATURE.

she spends half the manga whining about what she has to eat to survive. she repeatedly endangers her teammates to selfishly prove her worth. she clings to doing things by the book to the detriment of her own growth and her relationships with other people. she pouts when people don't want to do things her way. hell, just in day-to-day personal interactions, falin is more mature than marcille by a long shot. and yet she sees herself as more "adult" than falin.

falin, who understood early on that her parents did their best to protect her with the resources they had, even if they didn't always communicate it well. falin, who rejects shuro's second attempt at a proposal with such nuance, kindness, and grace that he smiles afterwards. falin, who withstood bullying from her peers at school and from adults in her village for years and came out of it with kindness that can exorcize zombies with a hug.

in order to accept any feelings she has for falin or vice versa, marcille would first have to recognize that falin is not a child compared to her. and there are times she comes close. falin, in her eyes, is almost superhumanly kind to the point of near worship. but she still sees falin as silly or childish because falin doesn't make the same practical choices that marcille would. ironically, those choices are typically driven by falin's kindness or love of all things living. and falin is too conflict-avoidant to tell marcille directly that she's wrong.

i don't think that a romance is impossible between them, though. i think it'd just take either emotional growth on marcille's part, or possibly even growth on falin's. while falin canonically doesn't push back on marcille's assumptions at all, she's also not so passive that she couldn't ever push back. we see pretty early on in the story that she's willing to hurt others if it means protecting her friends, she'd just prefer not to. i could see a situation arising where marcille makes selfish or damaging choices and falin has to put her in her place about it, and marcille finally comes to a revelation about her own or falin's maturity.

from there i think would essentially be an emotional floodgate. the groundwork for her having feelings is there, as they're obviously very affectionate with each other, but the revelation "falin is not an ickle babby i have to look out for" would have her recontextualizing a lot of their interactions. marcille would have to spend a while wrestling with suddenly feeling "wrong" about sharing a bed with falin, something she used to do easily. when falin gets cuddly, she'd struggle with the feeling of "this used to seem platonic to me but now it doesn't."

actually, it'd probably be a lot like realizing you're a lesbian and that your relationship with a friend was kind of weirdly homoerotic, and not knowing if that was "okay" or not.

[tanoraqui]

Dungeon Meshi Liveblog: Marcille Takes Charge!

You know what, this is actually a very fair answer to my earlier question of "why couldn't the ancients just kill the demon?" Points to you again, Ms. Kui.

Truly I can't wait to see, like, every single Mithrun fight scene in the anime. The whole First Floor Incident is presumably going to be Episode 1 of Season 2, and I'm sooo excited.

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At first, I thought the Lion was being snarky here, but in retrospect, knowing its whole story and nature, I think it genuinely is just fond of all its former dungeon lords. What wonderful meals they gave it!

.

That said, the Lion DOES have enough personality to Judge Marcille for her aesthetic choices; and I think that's beautiful :) <3

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MARCILLE, NO! You're showing how corrupted you've become/how you were never suited to this role in the first place by acting directly contrary to explicitly stated themes of the story!

There is, however, something very satisfyingly country-ruling foreshadowy about Laios (and Kabru!) looking down at all of this spread out, though.

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It IS painful watching Kabru try desperately to play both sides, keeping Laios safe from the Canaries without letting him go side with Marcille. Bud, I'm sorry but you HAVE lost control of this situation. And Laios is smart enough to have put everything together about what happened while he was unconscious, even when you deliberately didn't tell him.

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[whispering sternly to myself] It's not fealty. It's NOT fealty. It's the start of a beautiful best-friendship which just so happens to include 1 guy looking at another guy and deciding that yeah, he has good potential to fill the king-shaped hole that guy #1 has been searching to fill - but just, like, on principle; genuinely NOT for any personal emotional need. The best-friendship is a completely unrelated emotional need. The ONLY fealting in this story is, so far as I can tell, between Shuro and his ninja squad, because they're from a completely different culture and, tbh, genre of anime.

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But Laios, conversation is his means and mode! His sword and shield! If he can't talk it out, how is he possibly going to convince you to do anything, including save the world and be his friend?!

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God I love this. It's this perfect combination of "You are my polar opposite; you love the thing (monsters) that I'm terrified of, and I want to know how so I can do that, too, because I'm so tired of terror" and "You love a thing (monsters), understanding it to the point of being very good at killing it, the same way I love a different thing (people); we are the same and I just want you to recognize that like I do so we can happily vibrate on the same frequency forever."

It's very tragic-funny that Kabru genuinely try to introduce himself to Laios in a normal way, before resorting to taking his entire party to stalk him to dangerous levels of the dungeon and eating monsters. It's not his fault that Laios is completely immune to small talk.

I DO think that every pair (or throuple, etc) of narrative foils in every piece of media ever should at least try making out. At a certain point of narrative foiling, you might as well, you know?

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Note: Pattadol says she's "reporting" to Flamela, indicating that she's subordinate within the greater Canary structure even though she's 2nd in command of the most superior hunting party.

Also, it seems that the Canaries we know, the senior-most party, are genuinely the badassest of the badass and meant primarily for advanced dungeons including confronting dungeon lords and the demon directly. Tier-3 groups have less experienced guards, maybe criminals as well, and go on more scouting-type missions with no serious combat expected.

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She's not wrong, she's just a jerk about it!

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I get where the elves are coming from, I do. It's impossible to tell people people that there's a demon underground who'll grant their every wish while also communicating the dangers of this sufficiently that nobody goes searching for it. Even we the reader, don't entirely understand how bad it can get, how fast, until we watch Marcille do All Of That under the demon's active influence.

HOWEVER, it IS human nature to respond to this sort of thing with "well I/my friend won't go insane." There's gotta be a compromise wherein at SOME POINT far down the 'everything is going wrong in this dungeon' line, they just fucking tell people. They at least TRY. Otherwise they're just rolling their eyes at the short-lived races dangerous ignorance while actively refusing to reduce that ignorance.

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Again: Shuro is living in a slightly different, much cooler genre of manga than the rest of us. Also:

TEAM TOUDEN LET'S GOOO!!

The best part of this is that earlier, when our heroes were trying to figure out who might help them eat Falin's dragon half, I was like, 'hmm...they liked you, sure, but eating dragons is pretty weird...'

But now we are outright ALLYING AGAINST THE ELVES!

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Lmao. Classic adventuring party members, baffling NPCs as a team.

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oh this is cruel. this isn't fair.

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boys, focus.

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the comedic timing...

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lookit, that 30 seconds of desperate verbal flailing actually did help! Kinda!

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yeah, I DO really like that everyone looks to Chilchuck for his opinion on Marcille's 'make everyone live to 10,000' plan, as the guy with the shortest present lifespan and also the most age-wise of all of them.

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I Do Not Like This Visual. I Do Not Like the disproportionately large lion with human arms and hands shoving himself out of this book.

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Not to be pedantic, but I think if you're trying to entice a team of people into doing your will by calling out each of their individual strengths, I think you shouldn't make 2 of them as repetitive as "curiosity" and "inquisitive mind." That's not really what Senshi is bringing to the table anyway - I'd say "care" or maybe "sense of balance." Also, sorry Izutsumi but how tf is her "wildness" contributing to this mission?

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oh, Marcille, no...

[dippable]

autism and media. spoilers for criminal minds, my hero academia, and dungeon meshi.

okay so, i'm an autistic person, and i've seen portrayals of autism (both implied and explicit) and they've had.. a range of quality overall.

in explicit examples, i've seen only a few. spencer reid comes to mind first- the autistic savant with an eidetic memory and a penchant for seeming robotic. i, personally, was heavily influenced by this guy- i did (and kind of still do) enjoy criminal minds after all. however, spencer's existence as one of the first explicitly autistic characters that was seen by a wider audience. the show was insanely popular, but in the later seasons (mainly after he was sent to prison) many of his autistic traits seem to fade away. of course, he is a traumatized man who was on high alert for a WHILE, but one would expect he wouldn't lose many of his core personality traits. personally, i think these were written out since his traits weren't seen as "popular", since autistic people can offend those they love or say the wrong thing on accident and it seemed too weird.

second, my hero academia. i don't think any of these characters are explicitly autistic, but i haven't watched in a while. mainly, i see deku and tamaki as autistic (although bakugo, aizawa, and shigaraki are.... suspicious) and i believe my views on these two are mainly influenced by the rest of the fandom, so here goes. overall, i think the characterization of these two lends itself directly to their emotional or anxious nature. most media i see with one or both of them severely dumbs them down to these traits, with tamaki getting the brunt of this treatment. most don't seem to remember that both of them are strong for their age, smart, and have faith in their quirks. even if tamaki might seem pessimistic about fights, he's just that- pessimistic. he's much more inclined to believe he'll lose because if he does, he's prepared to do what he can to help whoever comes after. deku is emotional, yes, but who wouldn't be? he's a teenager who's been told over and over again that he's a failure and he'll never achieve his dream, and suddenly, he's being helped by the #1 hero to become the person that he thought was unattainable. i think horikoshi's representation of them is alright, it's just mainly the fandom that compresses them into "uwu anxious cinnamon rolls too sweet for this earth" instead of remembering they're multifaceted characters, and damaging their own interpretations of real people in the process.

in dungeon meshi, i don't know if they're explicitly autistic (however laios and falin are HEAVILY HINTED AT so.) but the representation of autism here is incredible. in the series, we see laios fuck up with shuro (and, notably, we see the fandom sweep it under the rug because laios is white) while he has real, genuinely close relationships with others (marcille is like a sister to him, and chilchuck's his best friend) so we know he is a multifaceted character. he's also tied to the tendency of autistic people to be interested in fringe interests, or alterhuman circles. he thinks (like many others) that he's weird enough to people, so he throws all caution to the wind and goes all-in on being weird. i know that when i realized i was "too weird" for others, i just stopped caring, and that's how i got into many of my favorite things- like OFF, house of leaves, etc etc. if they thought i was weird then, i don't really want to know what they think i am now, especially since i'm out here playing obscure meta rpgs or reading books that require me to flip them around.

overall, i think the representations of autistic people in media have a long way to go. there is still a critical shortage of autistic poc in media, and many representations of autism are still influenced by the savant stereotype we see with spencer reid (see: the good doctor) and there's still a variety of symptoms that haven't been shown accurately yet. i'm very proud of where we've come, though- now, i can see an incredibly accurate portrayal of myself in laios, but there's still many autistic people who haven't seen someone they can relate to on the silver screen.

[callmedylan]

Idea I had for a Dungeon Meshi swap AU

(Farcille and Chilaios fans why are we yet to make a swap AU where Laios x Chilchuck and Falin x Marcille swap.)

(P.S I only recently got into dungeon meshi like a month ago + I’m going off the anime and a bit of character facts from the manga so beware I might get some stuff wrong 💔)

Recently I’ve been cooking up (pun intended) this idea for a swap AU, ofc I love when ppl swap Falin and laios’s places but I wish they’d swap more characters and their stories, so it got me thinking about different possibilities.

what if Chilchuck and Laios were the ones that met in Magic school and become good friends? (for the sake of the AU let’s just say half foots live a bit longer so they age more similarly to humans). Chilchuck learned magic cause he didn’t want to be seen as weak or greedy for his race, which led him to getting miraculously accepted into a prestigious College for magic (which leads him to later learn Dark magic). It’s not his fault he befriended the “weirdo” human boy from said school and now has to save him (he’s worried sick he’s just emotionally constipated as hell).

Along with all this, after being saved from that spirit as a child, Laios realizes he has a love for monsters and what not; which later leads to his love for magic. When hes able to work with his little sister in their group as a Cleric, he was super excited to travel with friends and see all the monsters they come across, it’s too bad he ends up getting munched on by the red dragon.

Meanwhile Marcille is a half Elf for hire who was never able to master magic; And since elf’s aren’t known for their physical strength, she learned to disarm and detect traps. Ofc she probably had trouble with business because of this, but Falin and Laios found her situation super intriguing and hired her almost instantly.

Finally theres Falin, maybe after saving laios from that spirit as a child she realized she enjoyed combat and instead of going on to do magic she instead took a similar path as Canon laios and left home around 12 and later became the leader of their group. Of course while shes much more “mature” than Laios and is better at picking up social cues, she still has that weird fascination with eating monsters; she’s just way less extreme about it (guess it runs in the family).

Senshi could probably stay the same, but I could see him and namari swapping places (still deciding)

Some other roles that would be swapped (there’s more but I’m too lazy to list all of them):

Shuro <—> Maizuru

Kabru <—> Rin

Izutsumi <—> Kuro

dandan <—> Mickbell

(Note I’ll most likely make Farcille and Chilaios canon in this AU)

In this AU Marcille and Falin would actually get to develop their relationship some more and I think it’d be rlly fun for them to have this kinda awkward little Romance, like “hey ik your brother (and our friend) is getting digested rn but you’re rlly cute…”

Meanwhile Chilchuck is annoyed cause his best friend could possibly not be saved and die if they don’t hurry up and stop worrying about eating monsters and forming relationships (as he totally pushes down his feelings for Laios).

I really need to draw something for this AU, I think it’d be rlly fun.

Anyways hope y’all enjoyed my stupid little idea ramble.