#kastle meta

[the-shining-river]

Trajectories

One of the things that break my heart about Kastle is how they’re sort of on opposite trajectories in life.

Frank comes from this decent (middle-class?) family of two loving, if elderly and exasperated, parents, dad always coming to see his games; Frank knowing what he wants to do in life and joining the military without problems, excelling at Quantico and overseas, earning the rank of Lieutenant, enjoying respect and friendship and companionship of the other soldiers. Falling in love and getting married soon after (unplanned as it was), having a beautiful family, able to afford a house in NYC suburbs, proud of and very much in love with his wife 10+ years later, when he’s finally ready to come home and be with his family, start his ‘second life’... And then it all comes crashing down, he loses everything and finds himself on the wrong side of the law; and even as he tries to get over it and heal and make peace with his loss, the world (i.e. the writers of TP S2) once more pulls the rug from under his feet and everything becomes even more hopeless and dark, leaving him thinking he belongs in that violence and that’s ‘who he is’ and always will be.

Karen comes from a mess of a home situation, with her mum dead, family business struggling, irresponsible father expecting her to figure everything out and at the same time showing very little respect for her efforts; add to that the responsibility she feels for her younger brother and all the money troubles and the sense of hopelessness in a little town in Vermont; how she ends up with a loser boyfriend, doing and dealing drugs, postponing her college application to take care of her family; and then it all goes to hell with Kevin’s death and being thrown out of home by her own father. Like, Karen comes from a very dark and hopeless place with not a whole lot of means or options. But she makes it out. She fights, and she finds a place for herself in New York, and then it again goes to shit at her Union Allied job, but again she fights and perseveres until she has two avocado friends (complicated as one of them is lol), and a cause she believes in, and then a mentor and then a better job she downright excels in even without any college education, just her own intelligence and grit. It’s not easy, but she fights and she stays optimistic, and things are slowly improving for Karen Page of Fagan Corners, Vermont.

And the heartbreak lies in Frank having no idea about this. Thinking Karen’s life is all nice and unproblematic, except for her propensity for danger and knowing how to shoot; that she can’t possibly understand him. They could be sooo good together, helping and supporting each other — in Karen’s loneliness and need for justice, in Frank’s needing to reinvent himself and start from scratch again.

But, no, we can’t have nice things except in fanfic ;______;

[livrelady]

#THE LOOK THAT DAVID AND FRANK EXCHANGE IN THE LAST GIF#DAVID LOOKING AT FRANK LIKE#IS YOUR GIRLFRIEND DEFENDING YOU ON PUBLIC RADIO#AND FRANK IS ALL#YES#YES SHE IS#WITH THAT LITTLE SHRUG#LIKE HE’S JUST USED TO KNOWING#THAT KAREN ALWAYS HAS HIS BACK#EVEN IF IT MEANS TELLING OFF A SENATOR#ON PUBLIC RADIO#THAT FOND LITTLE SHRUG#HE’S ALL#WHAT CAN I DO#KAREN’S GONNA KAREN#kastle (X)

+ 👀

[kastleexchange]

Hi guys!

April showers bring May flowers, or so the saying goes! It's time for Come what May, kastle: born again week. We've come up with some prompts and ideas for your art/meta/playlists/fic/gifsets/edits/thoughts (thanks @woahpip and @notquitecogent for their help!!), but please don't feel confined to the day (or even the week)

To participate, just pick a prompt or two and post that week on tumblr! Don't forget to tag your works with #kastleexchange / @ us so we can reblog.

May 26th: What Could Be A single scene you want to see. | The first thing they say to each other in Daredevil: Born Again | AU day!!!! bring on the alternate universe dreams you've been thinking about forever May 27th: Still All Heart Use pics from behind the scenes (the already infamous shit-eating grin one ofc) and actual set pics from Daredevil: Born Again to inspire your art/fic set pics | bts May 28th: Who We Are Think of the lines and scenes from DD and TPS that define the character for you - what's your fave line from frank? from karen? how do you think those things could be revisited in Daredevil: Born Again?

May 29th: Say the Quiet Parts Out Loud A conversation you don't think they'll ever have but wish they would. | What are some offscreen moments you wish you could see?

May 30th: Here They Go Again How do you think other characters will react to seeing Frank again? Karen again? Both of them together? | How do you think characters from other Marvel franchises would react to them (crossover time!)

May 31st: Coda The last thing they say to each other in Daredevil: Born Again | How do they make it mean something?

[cyberdragoninfinity]

🔥I would love to hear your thoughts on the girls in Yugioh

I like em a lot but I wish they got to actually Do Things (especially in Zexal, they had so many cool girls and they hardly got to do anything)

I LOVE YOU YUGIOH GIRLSSSS

🔥 kind of insane that "the yugioh girls are good characters and deserve just as much respect as the male characters do" is a bit of an unpopular take but some anime fans are stuck in 2005 livejournal mindsets and do still act like girls in yugioh existing are the most heinous crime against yaoi possible. COULDNT BE ME!!! yugioh girls get behind me i love you I WILL PROTECT YOU!!!

theyre such a weird case a lot of the time too, though, because with the way yugioh works we equate "doing big, heroic moments" with dueling, because...well. This is the Card Game Dueling Monsters show. and the girls really indeed Do Not Get to Duel A Lot (let alone Win a lot) so in that department especially YEAH THEY REALLY DONT GET TO DO MUCH. And you get instances like poor fucking Rio Kastle, who's fridged for half of Zexal in the hospital, and Akiza JUST NOT GETTING TO TURBO DUEL EXCEPT LIKE TWO TIMES, MAYBE. GOD. But something I've noticed alongside that is because dueling = The benchmark for doing big plot actions, when the girls Do get to do some pretty cool stuff that isnt a duel, it doesn't really get dwelled on or talked about too much in fan spaces, and it's a shame!

I will never stop proclaiming that the DM anime was so real and right for making Serenity Wheeler the one to dive into the ocean to save her brother after the pier duel, it's one of my favorite scenes in all of Duel Monsters. SO much bravery and determination in that action. HER EYES WERE STILL HEALING AND SHE DID ALL THAT STILL!!! WAHHH. and god Tori, Tori Kotori Zexal my daughter MY BABY, everyone wants to be like "ohh she doesnt do anything shes annoying" MISS ME WITH THAT!! It sucks that she doesnt duel, yeah, but she does SO FUCKING MUCH over the course of Zexal. She piloted a spaceship out of a black hole. She followed Shark and Kite to go save Hart and Yuma and she was BEATING THOSE LITTER BOTS TO DEATH to save her friends!! She's by Yuma's side for all the incredible bullshit he has to deal with and without her I think he would have just completely fallen apart. She's so tenacious and loyal and fearless when it counts the most and it's such a bummer there's, like, no Tori meta.

I guess that all isnt too much of a hot unpopular take is it??! hrm. I guess it boils down to "some people have equated "not dueling" with "annoying and bad character" re: the girls of yugioh, which imo is a kneejerk borderline-to-genuinelly-misogynist reaction manifesting over what's really a bad writing choice completely out of the characters' hands" and you should really give yourself a chance to take a look at Everything the girls actually did get to contribute to the plot, because you can really find some great character insight and actually pretty important to the plot gestures in there. tl;dr 🔥 if you think ygo girls are annoying im turning you into a golf ball and putting you into a sand pit.

[uhthor]

it just hurts my heart because karen page would singlehandedly walk on glass to heal all of the wounds she gently touches on frank’s face, she would kiss them better and weave his broken skin back together with the stardust in her tears and she’d do it so unwaveringly, in every situation at any given time. but frank is so adamant on believing that he cannot be the one for her? he is so stubborn in his ways, ironic when he calls karen stubborn, and he won’t admit that deep down loving and peace is what he wants. he feels that he doesn’t have a choice when he does. karen is that choice. he just has to actively choose to take that pathway and he can be granted what he knows he wants. the wars inside of his mind are too ragged and loud for him to concentrate. the demons in his eardrums bang loudly with their cymbals of pain and elemental suffering that frank can’t even register what his heart feels. it’s like they’re disconnected, his head and his heart. he’s been beaten that many times that his body is out of shape and his functions do not align anymore. but when he looks at karen he sees love. and hope, and peace, and happiness. he sees that chance for him to settle with her, for him to get out of this business that he’s so caught up in. but when one fire is dampened, another starts within his mind and he’s back on autopilot. he wants to save everybody he can. he wants to right wrongs, he wants to fix those that can’t be fixed. he’d do everything and anything for someone in that position.

and karen just wants to do that for him.

[theshipdiaries]

Also can we talk about how he avoids her eyes as much as he can during their first conversation in this episode??? HE WAS SO ASHAMED OF HIMSELF HE LITERALLY COULD NOT BARE THE THOUGHT THAT HE HAD DISAPPOINTED HER AND KNEW HE WASN'T EVEN WORTHY OF LOOKING HER IN THE EYES. And he automatically confessed EVERYTHING. He had to be honest they don't lie to each other and he needed her to know he needed her to judge him to tell him off that what he felt about himself right now was right that he wasn't worth it and she was like "I love you unconditionally". I also feel like that was just too much, he knew if he looked her in the eyes he would break down (which he literally did after he woke up and she grabbed his hand and made him feel safe)

I'm close to committing a crime

Idk why this scene makes me so emotional. Her walking in and softly taking him in. How much it saddens her to see him in that state again. A direct parallel to the first time she met him only this time he means everything to her. He is cuffed to the bed all beaten, cut up and bruised and in his most vulnerable state, asleep, and she just takes a chair and sits by his side until he wakes up. She is NOT gonna leave him.

And let's not forget that after they talk HE FALLS ASLEEP AGAIN. And she is RIGHT THERE when he wakes up again. he felt so comfortable with her that he just..dossed off. And ofc the shirt she wears which makes her look like she literally has wings meaning she is his angel looking over him. ALSO she knew about his fight with billy which means THEY KEPT IN TOUCH OFF SCREEN🤧

[karenpage]

There’s a lot to unpack with the kastle episode, so this is my best attempts to articulate my thoughts regarding it. There are, of course, spoilers below the cut but I tried to keep my discussion to only that of Karen and Frank’s interaction (with mentions of the first episode for obvious reasons). This is just my take away, I’ll write more about the season as a whole at a later point.

But yes. The Punisher season 2, episode 11: The Abyss.

Okay. First and Foremost, you can tell the writers were strapped for time, that they might’ve had a larger role for Karen/Deb if she wasn’t busy filming dds3, which sort of makes me bitter because by and far Lightfoot has treated her character better when she’s on screen in the Punisher, but I digress.

We open up on Frank, beaten 99% to death which isn’t new to any long time fan of the show- but there’s something different. Something broken in him that we haven’t seen before and I’ll be the first to admit, it’s as unsettling as it is upsetting. Watching Frank, who has persisted through the worst of the worst, who has conquered unimaginable hurt and grief, be so willing to give up.. Ready to die in way that’s more a sense of him deserving it, rather than a byproduct of the life he’s chosen to live.

It’s all over the news, the radio announcing ‘the Punisher in police custody at the hospital’, and then we cut to Karen toting the sixth amendment and strong-arming her way past the heavy police protection surrounding Frank.

A direct, obvious, and intentional parallel to when they first met.

Frank’s tied to the bed, the setup is similar to that of dds2, visually. But Karen pulls a chair up to his bedside and she waits.

We don’t have any context for time, as for how long she’s there while he’s unconscious but something I’ve read in 10,000 fanfics winded me the moment he woke up. He was having a nightmare, saw the same vision he’d seen of Maria and the kids and then heard a hail of gunfire and screamed when he woke. Karen was there. Soothing him. Comforting him. And she grabbed his hand with both of hers.

Two hands.

It’s hard to watch as Frank relives their deaths, talks, at length about the day his family died and major kudos to Jon Bernthal, yet again, delivering a monologue that ripped my heart out and spat on it (not dissimilar to the speech at the graveyard in dds2 eps4), but Karen’s there every step of the way. She’s quiet, and supportive, and everything he needed in that moment because Frank’s grappling with something big and ugly.

He thinks he accidentally killed some women in a shoot-out with Billy Russo and his gang, they were innocent bystanders, and that circles back to what he’d been dreaming about. About his entire identity as the Punisher, and why he feels like he deserves to die.

‘Now I’m the monster’, GOD, let’s be real for one second. Kastle notwithstanding? That Shit HURTED the emotions evoked with a single sentence, with tears in his eyes and a trembling lip. I Don’t Think I’ll Ever Recover.

But Karen outright refuses to believe that. Denies that Frank deserves to die and she knows something’s up. Because Karen’s pursuit of the truth continues to be a cornerstone in their relationship. There’s some uh … Questionable Writing that I think they meant to use as comic relief but it just came across as gross (like some scenes in the season, the implied humor falls flat in the face of glaring and problematic issues), but, the effect is that she and Madani discover that it was meant to look like Frank killed those women, but Billy had executed them beforehand.

He wanted Frank to suffer. He knew that that’s a wound he’d struggle to heal from when they could only do so much damage to him physically (without killing him, and Billy didn’t want that).

Now, at this point, Frank’s TRIED to have a ‘normal life’ (time to segue into that real quick, because I have to break down episode one even if I’d rather claw out my eyes). Now, I firmly believe that he was doing what he did, behaving as he had because he doesn’t know how to heal. Frank’s never had the after. He says so himself in the end of season one. He’s scared. Where does he go? How does he navigate a life that no longer resembles his own? That’s a lot for a person to do by himself but Frank is headstrong, stubborn, and so he does it anyway.

PTSD (especially recurring, horrific trauma) can make people act… differently to say the least. One of the things associated with losing children, losing family, is that there’s no measure on how to cope with it. Frank saw a chance to feel normal and he took it, but he did himself (and Beth) a disservice. He’s a damaged man, and he was bound to bring all that accompanies it, to her doorstep. I’m not a fan of episode one but, surprisingly, it’s not that Frank hooks up with someone. Not that Frank tries to ground himself in a stranger, carve out a bit of an after. Which, again, people with PTSD don’t know how to open up to the people closest to them because they have the most to lose. If that person/those people can’t see through the fog of his struggle, the loss of them would be catastrophic. It’s infinitely easier to do that with a stranger. You have nothing to lose if they walk away.

My issue was him having sex with a woman named Beth, (his late wife being Maria Elizabeth) and that in the sex scenes they CONSTANTLY hone in on the wedding ring he’s wearing around his neck and he has flashbacks and it’s strange and mildly upsetting? It feels a bit like they were trying to show that Frank’s projecting (which he is) but they went about it all wrong from a narrative standpoint. And then, again, she gets shot - at least she doesn’t die, that would’ve solidified all of my fears - but that pain, that visual is still a raw wound for Frank and it’s what sets him back on the path of being the Punisher, with Amy by his side.

OKAY. BACK TO KASTLE. I have some issues with the scenes, but, again, I think it’s more based on the storytelling (which I’ll address at the end, independently), overall I just.. I love them deeply and profoundly but it definitely hurt to see Karen admit her feelings (again) and be rebuffed (again). NOT because Frank doesn’t feel the same way, not because, in an ideal world, Frank wouldn’t want to be with Karen. But because he doesn’t think he deserves it. He doesn’t think he gets to have a happy ending, period, which is stereotypical of a protagonist in the middle of their hero’s journey (we saw the same shit with Matt Murdock).

Karen straight up said she doesn’t want Matt. That she wants Frank (even if that means wanting and loving the Punisher too - which is new. Karen can’t deny who he is and I don’t think she’s trying to any longer). She told him to give loving someone other than a war, a chance (her. Love her, Frank. Choose her.) and watching her open herself up… pour out the contents of her heart only for him to give nothing (in that moment) in return??? That Shit Hurted 2.0. BUT, him saying ‘he doesn’t want that’, in reference to life with her, where they try together. Is just a continuation of the same thread they’ve shared from the get-go.

Frank continuing to push away the people he cares about most (Curtis, Karen, hell even Madani in the end), while they hold onto him tighter for it. That’s a pretty poignant and reoccurring theme in Marvel’s Netflix; that the heroes detach themselves. Think they don’t get a life like everybody else, and then have to get slapped in the face by the persistence of the people that love them.

He thanks her. That she waited by his bedside for him to wake up and was there for him when he did. He thanks her and there’s something broken in that, too. Like it’s him trying to say goodbye but he can’t find the words just right.

So Karen tells him to show her. AND MY HEART ! FUCKING ! STOPPED ! My gut knew we wouldn’t get a kiss, but this was clearly intended to be one, and Amy’s interruption is a semi-colon. It’s not their end. Just the middle. Which leads me to believe that, should we get a season three, Karen will continue to play a significant part in Frank’s life and they’ll take advantage of the fact that she’s no longer filming Daredevil, and her availability won’t be nearly as limited. Lightfoot and Jon both confirmed that they’d want more and more of her, always.

My take away: They are in love. They confessed it. It was as heartfelt and sad, as beautiful and ugly, as any of their scenes have ever been (And likely will be), but it didn’t feel like an end because it wasn’t. It’s ‘not right now’, if Frank had kissed her, if they’d pushed through and tried to be together then, it just wouldn’t work.

He’s in the middle of his story. That means there’s growth and learning yet to come and Karen deserves more than where he’s at, now. (Doesn’t stop me from writing a fuck ton of fanfic about it, though). He has to learn how to co-exist with the two halves of himself, and that’s something that needs to be done without throwing romance into the mix (but he really shouldn’t be alone, he should get help, and I really fucking hope they touch on that in season 3).

Karen’s also a big girl. She can make her choices and is fully aware of what they mean. I didn’t like that she was hurt, again, by someone she loves, again, and at the end of the day, Karen Page deserves to be loved deeply and entirely and Frank just can’t be that person right now. That doesn’t mean never (what’s the point of telling their story if it ended like that? Lightfoot might be on thin fucking ice but he wouldn’t do Karen OR Frank dirty like that).

The Punisher was written in three parts, the beginning, the middle, and the end (much like every other story, ever). Middle installments tend to be the most poorly received, which isn’t an issue in film franchises because of the revenue stream attached, but it DOES mean shows struggle in their Sophomore years. I like to use ‘The Empire Strikes Back’ as a point of reference, because it was almost universally hated upon release, and is now a cherished part of a dynastic film franchise. People cannot tell a story, or understand it, with only two acts of a three-part play so it can come off strangely, or the general tone can feel ‘off’, because there isn’t active resolution and we’re left with just as many questions as we entered with.

Ultimately, we need a season three to see how this plays out, (we DESERVE one, and a kiss, goddammit), but if this is where it ends. If this is the last time we see Karen and Frank, at least it’s ended knowing they’re in love, that it’s an indisputable fact of canon that cannot be ignored. Whatever that means going forward, we as a fan base can figure out in our own writing, conjecture, and in the beauty of all they’ve shared up until this point.

I am so profoundly happy with what we got, the tone of the season and everything else notwithstanding. I have issues, yes, of course, I do, but I’ve waited well over a year to see them share a screen and this is what my sleep-deprived brain could make of it.

Thank you all for reading, xo.

[glycerineclown]

THE PUNISHER SPOILERS! QUOTES FROM THE PUNISHER 2x11 WITHIN!

over the past two seasons of the punisher, i have never been shocked by frank and karen’s declarations of love, no matter how indirect or implied. there’s a fucking reason why i’ve written karen saying “i love you” so often, and so early on in any kind of romantic relationship with frank. 

usually people try to play it cool for quite a while when they’re dating and getting to know somebody, y’know. they hold back all of that shit out of fear. fear that it’s not reciprocated, that it’ll scare the other off, that it’s too soon. but god. frank and karen know each other completely, maybe not in the day-to-day sense, they haven’t spent enough time together, but they know all the most important things, all the secrets kept, all the dark sides. their trust is so real.

karen wants a future for him, so badly. and she wants to be in it. the audience roots for them because they want a future for him too. they see how much lighter, how open he is when he’s with her. 

karen can just stand in front of him and say these things:

“believe it or not, i actually care what happens to you.”

“i want there to be an after for you.”

“that doesn’t change how i feel about you.”

“you and i, we could figure this out together. [...] you could choose to love someone else instead of another war.”

she’s always pushing him on this. in their moments together, she’s always finding ways to tell him she loves him. it’s just the truth. she has no trouble with this, not when it’s frank. he can recreate the plot of toto’s africa but he’s not outright with it to her face because he knows she’d throw everything away for him. he can be with her at his most vulnerable, and that must scare the shit out of him, too. any step in their relationship could literally mean life or death. they don’t have time for fuckin’ games. if they’re in, they’re in. no fuckin’ around. there’s absolutely nothing casual about it. 

frank castle knows that if he gives in to karen page, there is no going back. they’ll be together until one or both of them is dead. and taking that risk isn’t fathomable for him. his heart can’t take the thought of losing her.

“i know you. you’re brave. you’re strong. but you are so goddamn stubborn and you will throw everything away for me, and i cannot let that happen.”

but he also really wants to make out with her. 

anyways if we don’t get a s3 leave me here to die while i write it myself

[hipsterfrankcastle]

imagine if karen’s only in one ep but curtis brings up what happened with fisk and asks if frank saw any of it on the tv, imagine amy teases frank about the way he lives like a monk and he gets all blush-y and when she prods him and asks if he has a girlfriend he tells her to go do the dishes imagine he and dinah go for a drink in some grotty bar and sit there not talking until she finally asks how after karen and he has to get up to leave because he doesn’t KNOW how karen is, imagine a little moment where he picks up the bulletin in a diner and automatically looks for her by-line, pure force of habit, imagine the waitress asks him if he wants coffee and it’s obvious that he’s thinking about that first talk in the diner, imagine there’s white flowers on the windowsill there and his gaze settles on them for a moment until Dinah or Curtis or whoever calls and the plot moves forward, imagine when karen finally turns up and he hugs her so quickly and so hard because it’s all he can think to do imagine that IMAGINE!!! GOD !

[the-shining-river]

YESS, I love this, thank you OP!

I love and admire how the fandom treats Maria, never underestimating her role in Frank’s life, never (t least, rarely) making her somehow not The One. I love how the Kastle fandom is more like: “ok, but she died, and it’s all very sad, but Frank is The Punisher now, he’s changed, and what he now has with Karen is in no way lesser or secondary either’. (except where Karen is not the mother of his children (yet), which — powerful stuff). The fandom consensus being that Maria and Karen are both equally important to him, even if he met them at very different stages of his life.

But YES, “Frank telling himself his narratives”: he does mention the fights he had with Maria and how she could emotionally destroy him, but we never SEE it. What we do see is only those rose-tinted perfect memories. When I was watching DD S2 for the first time, I didn’t know anything about Frank Castle, or that Kastle is a thing, and that diner speech legit made me think that Frank’s marriage bordered on abusive. The advice he gave Karen felt downright toxic, about how pain and knowing where to hit so it hurts the most, means it’s the real kind of love. Fandom does manage to interpret that quote in a more positive light, but it’s still weird and not very healthy, and I felt kinda cheated by the disconnect — how Frank seems to view his marriage so clearly in words, but then gets pulled under only by the good, perfect memories.

Imagine what a delicious, complicated study of grief it would be if he remembered the bad parts just as vividly? Felt guilty about any unresolved fights with Maria, not just the way he failed to read the story to Lisa? Felt relief for how easily Karen supports him, and then felt guilty remembering how it was never that easy with Maria?

I knew a sailor guy, who would be 6 months at sea and then 6 months at home, and he mentioned how it’s so difficult for his girlfriend, to constantly need to shift gears, get used to her guy being 100% at home, and then again having to get used to him 100% away and having to deal with everything on her own. Similar story with a sailor’s wife I know. They have two kids, and there’s all sorts of events the dad doesn’t get to participate in, and all sorts of trips and other events that they need to carefully plan for when he’s at home. And yeah, the constant shift from having a partner to support you, to dealing with everything on your own. Of course, the extended family helps, and Internet exists on ships, but it’s still not the same thing.

I imagine it would have been even more pronounced, with Maria additionally having to take care of a house, Frank gone on 18-month deployments, coming home for a week of Christmas maybe, missing large chunks of Maria’s pregnancies, Frankie’s birth (I think that was canon?), all sorts of school and life events. Feeling like a guest at his own home. I imagine it couldn’t have been an easy adjustment for Maria either, suddenly having her (beloved) soldier at home, upsetting her schedules, accidentally misplacing stuff, having to learn or relearn a ton of tiny details about their everyday lives, and, yeah, leaving pieces of himself behind in the sand.

Long story short lol, I agree with everything OP said and would read the heck out of a story where Frank somehow gets to face the actual, real, complicated, messy reality that is/was his life with Maria. Especially if he gets to compare it with the love Karen feels for him (all truth, but never to the point of pain), or the love Kevin and Karen have for each other (no emotional pain inflicted on the other either).

I don’t know what it is about Kastle that awakened this beast of an Angst Monster inside of me but I really want to write a fic post-tps1 pre-dds3 that develops into dds3 where for some Marvel Reason the Castle family comes back to life (and also Kevin just for the added angst) and they all have to deal with it.

Like. Definitely Kastle endgame but lots of Angst in between, ya know?

Recently I saw a post here about American boys coming back from the war with European wives and not knowing how to be with American girls anymore because they’ve seen death and found it easier to connect with people who shared their trauma and it got me thinking about Frank and what he says versus what’s actually the truth for him? I think I might not make a lot of sense here but my point is... Frank has a narrative he tells himself that he firmly believes to be the truth and it blinds him to the actual facts. Like how Schoonover and Billy betrayed him, how he felt like everyone should kind of see the world like he does, etc.

I know it gave a touch of realism to the series when Frank was talking about Maria and making a point to say that they fought and it wasn’t everything perfect but it got me thinking how he said that every time he mentioned her in dds2. This is a man who went through a very traumatic experience and is already looking back on his past only being able to think about the good stuff (he said so himself) and I found it so interesting how he still managed to have “bad” things to say about Maria and Frankie. Not bad as in criticising but bad as in not happy memories I guess or mentions of fights. I have a bit of a headcanon which can totally be wrong but I think it’s because Lisa is the only one in his family that Frank really had a strictly pure connection with. I might go back to change this phrasing since I’m not sure it really captures what I mean but let me explain.

Maria was a soldier’s wife through and through and while this isn’t common in my country and I can’t speak from experience, it feels to me like that might put a particular kind of strain on any relationship. We can see in the series when she talks about Frank leaving pieces of himself behind every time he came back and her feeling insecure (“Where is home?”) and I think that speaks a lot about their characters and their relationships, esp if we consider the fact that Frank is remembering all that with rose coloured glasses. I do genuinely think they had many problems and it really interests me to think how they would have dealt with them after Frank quit. That’s not to say I think their relationship was doomed from the start but my whole point is that for Frank there was a lot of love involved, yes, but also guilt, sadness, anger and resentment.

Then there’s Frankie which oof. He breaks my fucking heart. Out of everyone he’s probably the one Frank speaks about the least and it’s just so common for there to be distance between a father and his son esp when the father himself had a shitty relationship w his own dad. Again, Frank’s relationship with his son had a lot of resentment, fear and guilt involved, imo, he missed his goddamn birth for christ’s sake. But not Lisa. From day one, Frank took on the responsibility of being a dad and he wanted Lisa, she was his whole world, his sweet little girl who held him up when he cried. Out of all of them, she’s the one he mentions more, and that I felt (while watching dds2 just once) the one he grieved more in a way. Only because it felt like pure unadulterated grief with no other conflicting feelings in the mix. The only thing he ever mentioned feeling guilty of with Lisa was not reading her the story and then he latched on to that so fucking hard after everything (one batch, two batch, penny and dime).

Anyways let me get back on track. Just thinking about Frank coming back from his last tour and trying to fit into a civvie life already gets me thinking about how hard it would be for the Castle family. Remember, Frank didn’t join the Marines because he felt some sense of patriotism or whatever, he did it because he’d always had that war inside of him and Schoonover told his dad he’d be a good fit there. So yeah, we go back to Frank telling himself his narratives. Now, I’m not sure this was canon or fiction but the sentiment is the same even if he never said the words “If Maria walked through those doors and asked me to cut off my arm I would no questions asked”. Because of his loss, I think it’s very easy for him to fall into that mindset of “I would do anything for them” and simplify it a bit too much. Because the fight with Maria didn’t come out of nowhere, she had been feeling like that for some time and either they’ve been fighting about it for close to ten years or they haven’t but the problem was still there and I have no idea what’s worse.

Backtracking to Frank, I think one of his most admirable qualities is his loyalty. He treats people who aren’t blood like family and everyone he considers family has a special place in his heart and soul and he listens to them. Frank was pushing Gundel (was that his name?) forward when they were burying bodies and digging out bullets from civilian’s brains “It’s our orders” and while I don’t think he was unaffected, I think it was something he was prepared to do quite easily in some ways and that says a lot about him. Then he takes Rawllins eye and Billy, his brother, is there telling him to quit. Next, there’s Maria crying and asking him to come home. Frank doesn’t think twice about doing what both of his loved ones told him to do. Because Billy is his brother and Maria is his wife and those things mean something to him. Something really deep and really raw and intrinsic in his soul but... it doesn’t change who he is.

Again, I’m not saying they were doomed to fail (Frank and Maria) but I have a lot of doubts about them if they got to have a future together. First let me just say that I think the key for a good lifelong relationship is putting in the work every day and Frank and Maria had that down to an art imo. But it’s not the only thing. No amount of work can change a person’s knee jerk reactions, their base thoughts, the way they really feel deep inside. Sure, you can work to change habits and all that but how is it fair to have to keep fighting to change a part of yourself just for the sake of staying together? I dunno. This, of course, can be very easily argued with because everyone has an ideal relationship in their head and in the end I don’t really think there’s a right or wrong in this, just different opinions and perspectives. But my next point I can’t see a way around. Bc look. Frank and Maria had three months together before they had to get married because of Lisa. They were both really young (I’m thinking 21?) and immediately after Frank got deployed again and again and again, missing all this shit that was happening with his family. I have a friend who used to be married to an airline pilot (closest thing I can think of from “personal” experience), they had two sons and she said that she was basically a single mom for all the things that counted. Now that they’re broken up she can only remember the good things but still. Imagine Frank back at home after never having been home full time before. Imagine Frank, who has this darkness inside of him and that only snowballed with PTSD (bc really Frank? U don’t have it? Psht) and trauma and all that shit and he has no more outlet for it all. Because yes, he is a family man, but he only had to be a father and a husband for some stints of time and then he was being deployed again. Most of his time, he was used to having a family in war with his brothers.

Now, all of that was pre-Punisher Frank. Imagine Frank fresh out of avenging his family, changing names post-dds2 AND post-tps1 suddenly getting his family back. His family who he would do fucking anything for but they still haven’t been around for the past almost three years (i’m guessing, the timeline is so shaky). The past really traumatic and life changing three years of his life.

I already have a lot of headcanons for this but since this is a Kastle post and it’s getting way too big I’ll just backtrack to the beginning.

When I first started thinking about this scenario I only saw heartbreak for Karen (and Frank, really) but the more time passed, the more complex it got in my head and it all revolves around the canon relationship Karen and Frank have, more specifically, that it wasn’t about being together or being physical. (short disclaimer: I will never watch tps2 and I pretend it never happened). See, Frank in a lot of ways was still grieving Maria. I think he was still in love with her and he would always be as long as she was dead and the pain would never fully go away. Imo, I don’t think any of those facts were the reason him and Karen didn’t end up dating. I think they could (should) have ended up together eventually but those first 2/3 years where not only Frank but also Karen were hot messes with a bunch of shit thrown their way wasn’t going to be it. Instead, something much more meaningful and intense was building between them.

Shared trauma really bonds people and brings them together, it’s why Frank considered the marines his family and also why him and Karen got so attached to each other to the point that Frank could look David (who had been miserable for a year and a half because he lost his wife and kids and was at the end of his fucking rope) in the eye and compare her to Sarah. “Sarah is my wife, my family.” “So is Karen”. Again, the fact that they never shared a kiss or anything makes it all that heavier because their connection wasn’t because of attraction or lust or just loneliness, it was something so much deeper.

And if his family got back, his wife, I don’t think Frank would have any guilt associated with his connection with Karen. Bc even though to someone looking from the outside it might seem like they had something, in his head he wasn’t thinking in terms of this is my next girl now that my wife is dead. He wasn’t battling with guilt over his dead wife to make a move on her or not. He was just Frank and she was Karen and she became his family. They shared moments in the eye of the storm, she grounded him, made him remember.

And anyway, in the same way I don’t think David could have let Micro die, I don’t think Frank could keep the Punisher at bay, even with their families back. You can’t go back to who you were no matter how hard you try and once you get a taste for something so addictive as that, it’s really fucking hard to go pretend it never happened. This would be a story as much about the Lieberman’s as Kastle and the Castle family because oh wow how interesting would it be to explore it all?

Anyway, no one will probably read this giant post about weird ramblings but if you do and you’re interested to discuss it, feel free to reblog w your answer or dm me! <3

[w00wzerz]

This Is It! My Wig Is Non Exsistant! Kastle Has Been Acknowledged And I Am Freaking Out!!!!!

I am back from my Kastle Hiatus and thousands of kastle metas and fictions are coming your way! Feel free to spam me with ideas

[the-shining-river]

Hey, so here’s a thought.

In the end of DD S2, Karen told Frank he’s dead to her if he kills Schoonover, and then he did, and they didn’t talk until he came to her looking for help with Micro. Because she doesn’t like him killing people, even if they’re bad guys.

In her apartment, she agrees to help him after he nods that his “business” is finished. He gets a hug, and Karen is ready to be friends again.

At the river, she gives him info about Micro against her better judgement, because she doesn’t want to get the guy killed, but at least Frank promises that Micro has nothing to fear from him if he’s not dirty and not dangerous.

When they meet by the bridge again, Karen might be suspecting his involvement in Wolf’s death, but at least he tells her how he saved Madani and — when she specifically asks — he soothes her concerns, tells her Micro is alive.

When she gets all emotional is when she realises Frank is preparing for war again, he is going to kill again. It kind of mirrors the moment at Schoonover’s cabin — Karen knows what he’s gonna do and asks him not to. But this time, Frank asks what the alternative is, tries to explain his rationale, his fears, how this shit needs to be stopped in general, and the bad guys need to be punished, and he needs to be 100% sure this shit never spreads to Karen.

So what if that smooch and the ‘Please’ is not only about Karen not touching anything Kandahar-related, but — not turning her back on him when the killing starts again?

[geraltcirilla]

My top Kastle scene to this day is the diner scene from Daredevil 2x11. There was just something about it.... They’re on the run, their lives are in danger, the diner has this old-school noir feel to it, the air is tinged with fear, paranoia and curiosity, and there’s a raw open honesty between Frank and Karen and they truly see one another.

Karen sees Frank: A glimpse into what his home life was like and his Pre-Punisher self,  his relationship with his wife, his passion, admiration, and enthusiasm for love (he’s a romantic), and also his most violent self when he brutally murders the two thugs sent to kill Karen in a long drawn-out sequence. In this ten minute scene Karen sees his softest self and his hardest self, when almost anyone who knows him only ever sees one or the other. And he’s not afraid to show her.

And Frank sees Karen: He sees her completely on-edge from her fear from being hunted down and (she’s constantly canvasing the area and jumping at the slightest noise), he sees there’s a darker side to her through their conversation of her past and the implication of a .380, he sees her humorous and snarky side with her jokes, he sees her open honesty and devotion with her line “Because I believe you” (putting everything on the line, her life and reputation, to give Frank a chance to take down the Blacksmith because she has faith in him), and he sees her insecurities in her relationships and with Matt in particular for being hurt and used.

It’s the only scene I can think of in which there is a total equal share of screen-time devoted to character for them to reveal something to the other. Both characters leave that scene knowing the other person better, and perhaps more honestly than anyone else has ever known them. It might be on Daredevil, “Karen’s show”, but the writers care deeply about sharing Frank’s story as well. You can tell the writers want these two characters to connect on a deeper level.

I’d really love another scene like this on The Punisher. As much as I love all of Kastle’s scenes there, there isn’t an equal share of information or acknowledgement that the diner scene had.

[queensofthekastle]

Ok but Frank's fucking face when Karen pulls away in the elevator. He's so done in that moment, so tired, so finished, he's spent almost every last ounce of himself on getting her out safe and he looks like he could just stay in her arms forever but Karen, oh, razor sharp and bleeding hearted Karen, she knows it's now her turn to make sure that he gets out safe before he runs out of momentum and time. But Frank isn't processing all that in the moment, and when she first tells him to go, his eyes are so tragic.

[therewas-a-girl]

At three am last night I kept thinking about that hug in Karen’s house. And my brain jumped from that to how Frank is a natural caregiver. How he’s been isolated from human contact a while and hes not fluent in it anymore , but hasn't forgotten it. He doesn't reach out, but you can see how he still deeply needs to make sure that the people he cares about have the things that they need.

And how he goes from being surprised at that hug to giving into it, accepting the comfort given (because it’s Karen and because she needed it, and Frank  understands that). 

Which then brought me to that cheek kiss. 

And how - even after some time had gone by - he responded to her hug, (the meaning of it, its language, the nature of her reaching to him like that) with a display of physical affection of his own. (same meaning, same language). More sedate thank hers, sure. Tentative, but its still a gesture that mirrored hers. Or tried to. 

He reached out to her in a way he hadn’t practiced for a long time, but he did it, because it was her language. 

Thing is tho, its his too. But he’s just been away from any tenderness like that for so long that his first tries at it are gonna seem a bit halting. A bit awkward. But its there.

And it also made me think of this quote:

"Tell me now about entanglement. Einstein's spooky action at a distance. Is it related to quantum theory?

"Hm. No I mean, it's not a Theory; it's proven. When you separate an entwined particle and you move both parts away from the other, even at opposite ends of the universe, if you alter or affect one, the other will be identically altered or affected.”

"Spooky. Even at opposite ends of the universe?”

"Yeah.”

- and how the way Karen and Frank communicate seems to mirror it.

[silencefromafar]

I have so many thoughts about Karen and Frank and the depth of their connection and how The Punisher cemented all the necessary foundations for them to develop it further that this will probably turn into an essay. So get ready ‘cause this is gonna be a hell of a ride with lots about Frank and Karen’s psyche, their previous relationships, how they feel about each other and where their relationship might be right now and what might come next:

Let’s start with the diner scene on season 2 of Daredevil, ok? That conversation is central to understanding Frank’s character and Karen’s relationship with Matt. The first time I watched DD season 2 I was still onboard the Karen/Matt ship and Frank’s speech about ‘people that can hurt you’ unsettled me. Tbh I don’t know what exactly the writers meant to achieve with that scene. I have seen lots of people stating that the writers have set Karen/Matt to be an ‘endgame’ pairing since the beginning but, well, if they intended for this speech to reassert that Karen loves Matt like crazy, boy… it backfired. Because no matter how much I tried to fit Karen and Matt into this kind of deep love and trust that Frank describes, I couldn’t. So there are two things we can get from this scene: 1) although there is a lot of affection and care between the two of them, I think Karen had to realize that her relationship with Matt falls really short of what Frank describes; 2) it reasserts in words an important aspect of Frank’s character, that being how deep his connection to his loved ones goes, how intensely he feels and how he experiences such relationships:

“People that can really hurt you are the ones close enough to do it. People that get inside you and tear you apart. Make you feel like you’re never gonna recover”

This quote is the problem. We’re told, even by Frank himself, that Karen loves Matt. Ok. But when you try to fit their relationship to what Frank just said, it doesn’t work? This part bothered me so much and I finally understand why: Karen never opened herself up to Matt and Matt never got close enough to Karen to get inside her - actually he never really tried. Matt’s betrayal hurt Karen, but it didn’t tear her apart. Karen never let Matt see her whole self and Matt on the other hand was comfortable enough with the idea that he made of sweet, pure and compassionate Karen. We’re told that they love each other but we’re never shown that love, instead we got a couple cutesy dates that were hella sweet and all, while Matt’s deeper and most significant shown interactions were with Elektra (I have my theories about why the writers might have chosen to do that but it still doesn’t bode well for Karen’s romance with Matt). The kind of closeness that Frank speaks about is not physical and it goes beyond the nature of one’s feelings, it’s the kind of closeness that happens when you open up to someone so completely that they get to see what’s really inside, all the pretty and all the ugly. They get to know so much that you become vulnerable. It requires a high level of trust and honesty, which her relationship with Matt severely lacks. And do you know who’s the only character with whom Karen gets closer to having this kind of closeness? Yep, Frank Castle himself. Oh, the irony.

That connection that no one knows how to describe was already there in DDs2 and The Punisher cemented it. And it all coalesces in episode 10, particularly in that damned Elevator Scene™ and The Kiss That Didn’t Happen™ (yes, it was a kiss that didn’t happen kids and no, that’s not how you look at your sibling). The whole situation with Lewis and the fake hostage stunt show not only that they have an insane level of trust but also how much they know and understand each other. And if all the instances in which they protect each other in any capacity aren’t enough, we have a moment of such tender care inside the elevator that I can’t even describe it, there’s just so much going on there. That’s how you set up a relationship, kids. That, right there, is potential endgame material. We’re told that the connection is there, and we are shown the connection beyond what any of the other characters even got to see. 

And when you put everything in perspective, them not kissing is just right. Because they’re not ready yet. Frank still needs to finish his revenge, complete his grieving and come to terms with his loss. Karen on the other hand needs time to process this and deal with her feelings of abandonment. But if we know something about Frank Castle is that he doesn’t do things in half. It’s the essence of his character (‘whole measure’ and all that). So I guess Karen being unsure and even slightly hesitant if it ever comes to that might be reasonable because this is something that she didn’t get to experience before and her being so used to preserving herself might have some weight here. While Karen hates being alone and craves connection and closeness she’s also a bit scared of it. And taking into consideration what he tells Sarah about allowing oneself to feel, I think he wouldn’t try to negate his feelings for Karen. So, if Frank ever commits himself to a relationship with Karen, we all can be damn’ sure that he won’t be leaving unless she wants him to. And he will enter it head on, no holds barred. Frank already made himself vulnerable to her (as we can see in the elevator scene), now it’s up to her to feel prepared to let Frank in. Because he already sees her as whole and is close enough to be in range to do serious damage.