#just free Jikook from this discourse I beg

[starryjkoo]

Going to rant a little again... 😭

One of the worst things this fandom has done in CH2 has been turning everything between the members into competition and comparison. I just knew we were going to see that same tired discourse where certain ARMYs can’t help but throw Jikook under the bus when complaining about RL and Jhope’s streams. Do they understand how weird and entirely unproductive doing that is? And I really wish I understood what ARMYs thought this fandoms baseline of support was, because why are we using Jikook as the standard and goalpost? Isn’t it kind of extremely unrealistic to expect every member to have a 1billion streamed song or a top10 on billboard hot100? Do ARMYs saying this understand how crazy and difficult those achievements are in the first place? Nothing wrong with aiming for those things each release and striving to do our best or wanting to do better, but framing the lack of them as this huge failure on the fandoms part or favoritism towards the members who do achieve them is beyond unfair and unrealistic.

The most ridiculous part of this discourse is when I see the typical “ARMYs don't support RL like they do other members” post turn into “ARMYs don’t support taejin either! They only support Jikook”. So you’re telling me such a big portion of this fandom really believes that only 2/7 members are properly supported? I don’t know about anyone else, but if only two out of seven are achieving specific results, maybe they should be considered outliers or exceptions rather than the rule? Or does that require too much critical thinking and nuance for that specific group of complainer ARMYs who want to just point fingers at others whenever this convo comes up? Because why on Earth do we see only two people achieving something and then assume that should be the norm/average? It just… it doesn’t make any sense? 😭

I don’t know man, I’m tired of this discourse. There are absolutely 100% good ARMYs who push back on it but the amount of ARMYs who feed into it far outweigh them (at least on certain platforms, and maybe I'm giving them too much importance). And you know as a chart enjoyer and all that it’s like these people just entirely do not understand how any of this, including streaming or charting or promoting, works in the first place. Jhope is clearly doing better this time, does anyone wonder why that is? It’s not because the fandom just magically improved, it’s because he has a goal to chart high this time and his promotions and strategy and even song choices match that. It contributes and has always mattered. There are just so many things that are out of the control of core fans so I don't know why some ARMYs are so determined to just blame each other and be so negative every time?

Anyways yeah I never understand what these people think they’re doing when these convos happen. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to improve for RL specifically, being frustrated at the results sometimes, or hoping the fandom can improve for each release, but the discourse is always missing the point and setting up specifically Jimin and Jungkook. I'm not surprised only 'Who' dropped today after I saw it name dropped negatively so many times yesterday. It is what it is but this kind of thinking is just so harmful to the fandom and unfair towards the members. I get people who are frustrated and all that but one of the reasons we don’t improve is because people fixate on the wrong things.

[slaaverin]

I wonder why most Jikookers think Jk loves Jimin more than Jimin do him when it’s clearly opposite. Maybe they are influenced by grant gestures JK does once in a blue moon while Jimin is consistently taking care and loving him.

One of the obvious example is 2 incidents in AYS. jk was riding motorcycle and Jimin was worried saying to be careful of cars but jK ignored him saying I’m good which Jimin said atleast reply with a ‘ok’. But Jk was thinking whether army will be worried about this and confimred he rides the vehicle carefully. See how he was completely tone deaf to Jimin’s worry ?

second is in the forest. Jimin asked him to go slowly and enjoy the view multiple times while Jk was rushing, clearly walking too fast and away from Jimin as if he was trekking alone with his cam. And Jimin subtly shaded him saying how immature it is as Jimin, when he was kid, used to fastly walk to finish first as he wanted to he’s good at it than his peers but now he take it slow enjoying the view.

JK is often unnecessarily praised to waiting for jimin when he does it once or twice but 90% time he just avoids Jimin who walks slowly.

I am tired of this discourse. Aren't you tired? I'm tired.

Can we stop this "Jk loves Jimin most" "Jimin loves JK most" For fuck's sake how hard is it to understand they are simply two different people who love in different ways? It doesn't mean they don't love each other just as strongly, simply that they show it differently. And it's FINE. Are we in kindergarten? Is this a competition?

The two example you picked. Please.

The first one. Of course he dismissed Jimin's worry. One, JK knows how to drive, it was not his first time riding a motorcycle. And secondly, have you never experienced a loved one in your life telling you to "please be careful" "please stay safe" "please bring a light jacket because you will be cold" and you just roll your eyes and say "yes yes I will" without thinking too much about it?

JK is a confident dude who thinks can take care of himself (and he can, as most people), so idk maybe he doesn't feel like pushing the fact he needs extra care from Jimin? (But I don't think he minds it either, just he's not gonna play victim or anything like when Jimin was talking about his cold)

I don't know is he so hard to read??? He never dismissed him in a harsh way? Just like "I know, but I'm a big boy don't worry" which is a perfectly acceptable reaction to have from anyone? Jk is a free spirit as he put it and it just shows. So what? Does it mean he loves Jimin less? Absolutely not, it doesn't mean anything in particular.

Can we stop changing perfectly normal interactions into some kind of twisted toxic ones?

Because you know most people wouldn't see any of this in a negative way. Yet you're making it negative. It talks more about you than about JK.

And for the second one.

Each person walks at their own pace. Jungkook is amused at Jimin's slowness and Jimin to justify himself (because everyone thinks their way of walking is the best way) tells this little story and they giggled and the whole thing was very cute and fun and just shows they are different and once again, so what?

Aren't you nitpicking and inventing stuff that doesn't even exist?

He doesn't "avoid" Jimin, he just walks as he wants to! And many times they're walking side by side. What even are we talking about here???

When I walk especially while traveling with people I walk always waaaay ahead of everyone and spend most of my time waiting for people. When I travel with my mom she's especially slow and I always make a fuss with how slow she walks and even make fun of her. Does this mean I don't like my mom? That I avoid her?

Common sense people, common sense please I beg you this ask is so ridiculous

Once again a perfect example of someone choosing very minute details and making a truth out of them without seeing the whole picture

Did you forget how JK took care of Jimin when he was sick? Even made a little stone tower and prayed for him? How he cooked for him several times, wanting to make the best carbonara possible, for Jimin? Did you forget how Jimin was down in Sapporo and JK was trying to cheer him up? How JK made Jimin giggle repeatedly? How many time he praised him, calling him pretty and encouraging him? How worried he was when Jimin got injured? How he was trying to help with music? How he shared his food?

JK said again and again how happy he was to be on these trips with Jimin.

If you didn't see any of this then I'm thinking you are willfully blind or just a 12 year old.

Nobody in their right mind would try to put jikook's love to each other into some kind of counting of points competition "he did more, no he did more" Are you hearing yourself? The only people making things weird here are you. There's nothing wrong with their own individual ways to show love because guess what? They are different people! Shocker I know.

If you can't take them both as they are and love them as they are without putting your own toxic views into it, then don't even bother.

And if you're a solo hating on the other, your fave would probably be ashamed of you.

I don't want to read this crap in my asks again for real. GROW UP.

Thanks

[stormblessed95]

I love a good hot take, especially ones that are just a hot take like this one and not just an absolute troll of an opinion intended to rile people up. That's not what this is and I did enjoy the post

Adding my 2 cents that wasn't asked for at all, sorry! Hope I'm not overstepping. Feel free to let me know if I am.

I sort of disagree, but I do see where OP is coming from. So as someone who has an entire section on my masterlist dedicated to "insecure jikookers" here is why I use that term, and probably will continue to do so and how I use it.

Just looking at that section of my masterlist (and I understand that the name of that might feel offense to some, being grouped with tkkrs, but it's not meant to be), it will give a good example of what I mean honestly...

As someone who has been a blogger open to anons for a few years now, I have seen EVERYTHING. Lol and when I say there are insecure jikookers, that's EXACTLY what I mean. I don't mean people using critical thinking and questioning things like "wait, but how would that.... Insert whatever here" I mean the constant back and forth depending on the type of content they are currently watching. And it's incredibly frustrating to have to go in circles over and over again with someone because they don't want to have an actual conversation. They want me to tell them what to think in a way that doesn't leave them with extra questions or reasonable doubt.

I made three posts a while ago explicitly talking about insecurity and I still stand by them, you can read those here if you wanted...

This is one where I mentioned similarly to OP that a lot of times insecure is not the correct word to be using and they aren't insecure shippers at all, but trolls or just baby army who don't understand how content drops work yet

There is a huge difference in chronic insecurity and making that someone else's problem (and when they come to my blog, they are trying to make it my problem) and wanting to engage in a thought provoking discussion where perhaps you walk away from it agreeing to disagree. And when I call someone an insecure jikooker, it's often because they are displaying patterns of it, usually goes something like this:

"Jikook are the cutest couple ever!!! Look at how soft and touching and caring they are"

"omg, how could Jikook be a couple though if JK tells Tae that he loves him? They must all be friends right?"

"wahhhh they almost kissed!! Such boyfriends!"

"wtf?! How can they be dating if they rough house like that??! It's not okay"

And they come to me every single time and it's simply the constant ship jumping and they just want to announce themselves or it's constant "convince me to come back to the ship." It drives me up the wall, I have to be completely honest.

And that's just one kind of example. Honestly, check the links above for better ones. Please.

And let me disclaimer this that a lot of the times, I can usually tell repeat anons from the way they write. And I know not everyone person writing in to me is chronically insecure and might just be confused by certain things. I'm not shitting on those people. At all. I just get very annoyed by discourse that is constantly repeated over and over every few months that can't stem from anything other than antis or insecurities in your own opinions. Which again, is different than just questioning things, reevaluating your opinions or even just changing your mind.

I would NEVER criticize someone for having reasonable doubt. I would actually actively encourage it and I think that if every shipper of an RPS ship made sure to keep a modicum of reasonable doubt in their mind, they would be a lot happier and healthier in the way they engage in fandom spaces. Shipping is supposed to be fun, not something that would ruin your life if you end up wrong, which is an incredibly real possibility. You aren't shipping your best friend with their crush... You are shipping essentially strangers. It's important to remember that you don't actually know them. And when you say that you love and support them, be prepared to mean it even if they aren't dating the boy you think are 🤷‍♀️

I absolutely see where you are coming from, I see your disclaimer paragraph about maybe where it came from, which I've basically expanded upon with all my wordy words. I disagree that it seems cultish, but I do agree and see where it has become much more widely used in jikooker spaces in a wider type of way.... Not sure if I fully agree with you that it's being used as a way to shut down reasonable doubt or critical conversation, but I'm willing to admit my sample size is low and it absolutely could be!

I do have a problem with anons trying to like bait me into answering their asks with a "I just want a reasonable discussion using critical thinking" type starters because a lot of the time, it doesn't seem to be in actual good faith and I hate spending my limited free time talking in circles. If that's what you actually want, just talk to me kindly like an actual human being please. Lol

The one bigger thing that I did take away from this, and that I will be going to sit and think on further is that anon has made me realize that I am probably also getting more easily annoyed with something I may consider eye roll worthy that someone else probably doesn't way more than I used to. Might not be the point they were trying to make but it's making me think.

I used to have SO much more patience and kindness for people who were insecure, even annoyingly so and not just trolls, or to have more in depth conversations about things. I know part of it is because I had more free time to do so online during the pandemic than I do now. But I know a larger part of it is that I have become very bitter and disillusioned with this fandom space I have on this blog. Not with BTS or Jikook at all, but with my jikooker spaces. I've said this before. But it's really affected how I feel about it and how I interact here for sure too. I think that feeling that way is fair considering everything I have been put through here, and it's not entirely unreasonable. BUT

It's something I think I need to take time to really sit with and decide on what I want to do. Because it's also not fully fair to myself to simmer in that for something that's supposed to just bring me joy. The feeling is fair, but the results of it are a little less so. So I need to decide what I'm able and willing to let go of. Because it's not fair to carry that bitterness through all my interactions here. To me or to my followers. I'm not saying the same level of trust will probably ever return, it can't. That's just gone.... But I need to either let go and release those feelings and get back to letting this be something that's purely fun for me. Which includes engaging with y'all. Or I need to probably let the blog go. Never the fandom, I'm here with BTS for life man, but maybe curate a new and different space for myself (and not tell anyone lol) where I can just enjoy the content. Idk, something to sit with. Because I used to enjoy longer form discussions with people who disagreed with me more often. Lol I still do! I just have so much less patience for this entire space right now still. If I stay here making use of this space, I would want to get back to that. Where I had more enjoyment for everything that running this blog entails, including the more annoying aspects of it, like the insecurity rollercoaster, which I will continue to call out if anons bring it to my blog. 🤷‍♀️

TLDR: I'm still going to call people who are in the insecurity rollercoaster insecure. It's just what they are. Only if they don't want to engage in actual discussion or continue to go in constant circles. I don't think it's cultish or wrong to do so personally. But I can appreciate this post and the ideas behind it, even while I don't agree. 💜

On “Insecure Jikookers”…

Alright. I might lose followers for this and that’s very okay; curate your timeline and protect your peace babes. But for YEARS, every time the phrase “insecure jikooker” has come up on my feed my eyelid has done a little twitchy twitch 🤨🤨

And I have always ignored it, because I’ve never wanted to be out here policing ppl’s language and we are literally supposed to be having fun and celebrating love, like for me that’s the whole point, but —

I’ve been seeing the phrase popping up again surrounding the release of AYS and I just gotta say it.

You guys the term seems so culty 😬🥲

Like I think I get the origin (maybe)? It probably started when some of the early jikook bloggers (if you are one I salute you, I am not worthy, trust me this is NOT a dig at anyone, jikook bloggers are by and large cool and kind af 🙇‍♀️) would get these sketchy asks that were antis or cultists in disguise just casting aspersions on jikook’s bond or being blatantly homophobic and/or in general being rude little anonymous internet gremlins. Or maybe it was people who did want to believe that jikook was real but kept nagging and begging for reassurance at every turn, which I can totally see becoming annoying as hell and prompting people to start using the term.

But it feels like it’s used now as like a catchall for anyone who expresses any doubt or asks any critical questions? Even like… reasonable ones? And I used to see a lot of “hey believe what you want to believe but this is what I believe” but now it seems like the sentiment around jikooker communities has by and large become “if you don’t believe you’re an idiotic dumb person who has never known love — you’re either a rival shipper in disguise or WORSE (dun dun dunnnnn) an Insecure Jikooker — and we don’t want people like you around.”

And idk it just feels weird for a community that has always seemed to kind of pride itself on being the “rational, fact-based” ship… like we LOVE to be smug about how jikook don’t need edits to be obvious, don’t need slo-mo zooms with red circles and arrows because their chemistry and fondness and affection is just plain to see in basic footage. We’re the levelheaded ones 😌.

But doesn’t that mean that we should always be encouraging critical thinking, and if someone comes to a different conclusion than us, so be it? Like it or not, none of us have foolproof confirmation that jikook are anything more than very close friends. That’s literally all we know. The rest is our best guess based on vibes, anecdotes, dot-connecting, subtext and body language observation, experience, perception (!!This is a big one because confirmation bias is real!!), and suspicion. That’s literally it.

Look maybe I’m just projecting 😅 but when you criticize people for expressing reasonable doubt over something that is literally not confirmed, it’s just a little too religious fundamentalist for me! (This is why I was a bad Christian, because I always raised my hand and asked questions the Sunday school teacher didn’t like.)

Feel free to ignore me. I never want to come across as pushy or trying to stir up anything, it’s just a phrase that grinds my gears and I’m sort of hoping I’m not alone in that… but if I am, so be it! 🤣 would love to hear people’s thoughts because maybe I’m missing something.

(P.S. If you’re a troll who spams jikook blog inboxes this is not me defending you. You’re still annoying and you need a better hobby. Have you tried yoga? Snowboarding? Fly fishing? Filming food vlogs and/or painting? You should try cooking. You should stop being an anonymous internet troll stomping on everyone’s proverbial sandcastles and instead write a poem. K bye ✌️ )