#just cataloguing some more thoughts on noelle + susie

[obstinaterixatrix]

Messy rambling thoughts about significant points for susie/noelle dynamic:

Noelle —

has been interested in susie for a while—“I’m kind of curious what she’s like. I mean, who DOESN’T wonder about her? She never talks to anyone.” Strong enough interest she’s asked her dad for advice (or maybe got unsolicited advice) on how to approach susie (i.e. going up to her and calling her a hot piece of work or something similar) (lol)

genuinely intimidated by susie, doesn’t necessarily believe in (and isn’t specifically attracted by) an already existing Secret Heart Of Gold per se (“She’d probably just laugh at me” + “[The real Susie] probably doesn’t care about me at all […] she doesn’t care about anybody”)

however, susie being nice is “just what [noelle] was hoping” and from the beginning of ch 1 she’s “always thought Susie can’t be that bad.” Telling Noelle that susie’s terrible gets noelle to reveal that noelle “THOUGHT Susie was good, just… Maybe it would take someone special to find her good side” and noelle accepts that Susie is terrible, which does not actually affect her interest in susie (lol)

perception of susie is: she’s good but she’s just mean (<3)

thinks Susie is “the good kind of scary”—textually expressed to Susie in terms of Susie not being afraid to break the rules (doing what she wants, which is what Noelle wishes she could do—Berdly and Queen highlight her issues with being steamrolled over by people who think they know what’s best for her, and according to Rudy this pattern also happens with her mom) (therefore susie aggressively asserting herself is a source of admiration)

the good kind of scary is also defined as the safe kind of scary—the other meta highlighted predictability (since susie being a bully is established, susie can be expected to consistently act intimidating in a specific way) but I also think that this establishes susie as having reasonable limits in terms of physical aggression. noelle can expect susie to push her to the ground, and can expect susie not to injure her further, falling within the bounds of ‘safe’ (if you walk fast to the supply closet, susie mentions kris “has a lot of experience running away”—it could be that kris was just able to escape every time which gives noelle this impression of susie’s limits, but I feel like ch 1+2 makes it clear susie’s m.o. is to threaten & scare people away & I’d interpret the escape as part of that) (also, while slamming kris against a locker is more extreme than expected, it still falls within the bounds of ‘safe’)

has some degree of indirect/direct initiative with zero (or minimal) prompting—in the first chapter tries to volunteer herself to go with susie without input from anyone, in the second chapter will invite them both to study regardless of player choice (with the obvious ulterior motive of getting closer to susie), will additionally give susie a box of chalk if kris says she’s nice; regardless of dialogue will at least want to invite susie to the ferris wheel

initiative comes from “good kind of scary”—noelle hopes for susie to be nice and receptive to her attention, but the worst case scenario of rejection would still 1) fall into safe expectations of scary, 2) showcase the qualities noelle is attracted to (only does what she wants, therefore assertive rejection is still ‘wow no one can make her do what she doesn’t want to <3’)

I’d also speculate it feels a little bad for noelle to be cowed by people who aren’t supposed to be intimidating—e.g. when berdly speaks over her after she tries to suggest a group of 3 with kris. On the other hand, susie is supposed to be scary, so it doesn’t feel bad to be scared of her. and also having a crush is scary so noelle gets to be double-scared without feeling uncomfortable/ashamed/unhappy/etc.

Susie —

Aware of noelle because of the pencil thing, positive feelings since before ch 1 (saw her smile, decided to spare + “Since that stupid queen took you, I was kinda worried”)

Very clueless about indirect interest—receiving gifts & being invited to study together does NOT register as someone wanting to be friends with her

To some extent, passive/reactive; will not take initiative regardless of vaguely positive impression UNLESS Something Direct/Drastic happens. Comparing pacifist/weird routes, pacifist has noelle telling susie she’s the good kind of scary + she wishes she could be more like susie, and susie is still guarded/passive (not initiating conversation); weird route has susie initiate with “have a good dream?” which means something more drastic than established vaguely positive feelings must have happened. You can also see this with lancer—she starts being open to friendship only after he’s very directly like thanks! you were helpful! you’re cool and I want to be more like you! But she gets more active the more comfortable she gets in a relationship, e.g. insisting on going with ralsei

Basically unless she’s being actively pursued or in an established friendship, her reaction to someone she has positive feelings toward is: that’s kinda nice. I’m going to leave it alone forever.

Related, very resistant to imposition of roles & expectations that go against what she’s decided to do (ralsei’s “whether you like it or not you’re a hero [….] could you please start acting like one?”) and VERY WEAK to genuine positive attention (aforementioned lancer scene and also all lancer scenes, the pencil thing with noelle + ferris wheel convo, when queen in weird route says she’s always known susie was a nice girl, even back in ch 1 says toriel’s “a good mother” and in ch 2 is obviously flustered + Cares A Lot about her opinion)

can be super super dishonest to others about positive intentions as a way to save face—offering the candy fruit thing to lancer by saying she just changed her mind about it, in weird route following up “let’s go in and save her!” with “And uh, y’know, teach her not to get in our way,” telling noelle not to get used to being saved by her even though it was something she wanted to do. changes in more dire circumstances, e.g. no front/bravado when lancer asks if they’re still friends