#joy hill asoiaf

[lovelyllamasblog]

Thank you @rakiah for taking my commission for Joy Hill!! She's so beautiful!!

Some background for those who don't know;

Joy Hill is the bastard of the Lannisters, the natural born daughter of Tywin's youngest brother, Gerion, who went missing before the start of the series. Her mother is named Briony and that's all we know about her.

She only gets mentioned in A Storm of Swords and A Feast for Crows. Jaime calls her sweet, but also lonely. Some of the headcanons I've seen is that she lives on Casterly Rock and is being raised by her paternal aunt, Genna Lannister-Frey.

I also ship her with Jon Snow. Why? High born bastards who are easily overlooked by others, who understand both the highborns and the lowborns. Depending on the circumstances, they would definitely have a common ground that could become something more.

[chic-beyond-the-wall]

What Joy Hill would wear

[coldraindropsss]

Briony, Joy Hill, Lynora Hill

[iceywolf24]

I do hope when the Lannister regime inevitably collapses that Martyn and Dorna manage to get themselves, Janei and Joy to safety.

We don't know much of him but given Martyn is around 14 I think he can learn from his family's mistakes.

[thelandswemadeofpaper]

I think we need a name for a character that technically exist in the work but, for some reason, was not named, given a face or much story beyond was necessary.

They are not 'original characters', just original versions of a character.

Some are unnamed, some are not.

Edit: It seens we already have, either textual ghosts or canon ocs. I like the term 'Adopted Characters'.

[lostchildofthenewworld]

Rating: T

All Aegon wanted to do was just play his game and vibe out.

[thestagthatlovedthewolf]

Any fic, any time, I want more comments, but I have this particular fic that I wrote for one friend's birthday years back that still gets kudos and faves, and I wish someone commented on it, to maybe tell me if this in a rec list somewhere...

I'm super grateful for the support and super excited that people like it!!! But I’m just incredibly confused about why and how are people finding it, it's only tagged with a super rare ship... Did this ship start being a thing in recent years? (By ao3 numbers I wouldn't say so...) But just are more people into Jon Snow and Joy Hill?!!

[duxbelisarius]

Dune At Home: The First Dornish War, Part One

This is a project I've had on the backburner ever since I finished my Military Analysis of the Dance. I mentioned in my analysis of the Velaryon Blockade that I plan to rewrite the Dance series at some point, in light of the research and further reading I've done into the subject of pre-modern warfare. One can look at this new series focused on the First Dornish War as essentially a trial run for the rewrite, but my reasons for analyzing this war in particular go far beyond that.

The First Dornish War was the largest conflict fought by the Seven Kingdoms following unification, while its outcome cast a long shadow over the history of Westeros and the Targaryen Dynasty. There's Rhaenys' death and the affect it has on her family, the recurrent desire of future monarchs to conquer Dorne and succeed where Aegon failed, to say nothing of the way in which the events of the war have influenced and continue to influence the plot of the main ASOIAF books. While F&B only devotes 10 pages to the war as compared to the 200 taken up by the Dance, the importance of the First Dornish War far exceeds it's limited coverage, and we can probably expect to learn more about it in TWOW, ADOS, and the Aegon's Conquest series planned by HBO. This more than justifies analyzing the First Dornish War and the extent to which it is consistent with George's own worldbuilding and what we know about Medieval and Early Modern war.

This first part of the series will assess the Dornish worldbuilding, what information we have about its people, geography, environment and society as a whole. The purpose of doing this is to establish a baseline of what we can know or reasonably infer about Dorne from what the books tell us, which can then be compared to how Dorne is portrayed in F&B during the First Dornish War. I also recommend checking out the Dornish installments of the Politics of the Seven Kingdoms series written by the late Steven Attewell of Race for the Iron Throne; if you want a second opinion or more detail, his series is absolutely worth your while!

Atlas of Ice and Fire estimates that Dorne's size is approximately 328 472 square miles, using a similar process to TWOIAF editor Elio Garcia; this makes Dorne slightly smaller than Pakistan (340 509 square miles) and slightly larger than the former French Indochina (Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, c.290 000 square miles). Atlas estimates a population of c.3 million in Dorne at the time of the ASOIAF series with his calculations again using methods similar to Elio, but the population may easily be lesser or greater than these extrapolations. Unfortunately the demographics of Planetos are a mess at best, and Dorne's population and that of the Seven Kingdoms should in theory be much smaller at the time of the First Dornish War.

ADWD's map of the south and TWOIAF's map of Dorne identify 16 and 17 populated locations in Dorne respectively, excluding Ghaston Grey, the Tower of Joy, Vulture's Roost and the Water Gardens. 7 of these settlements are located in the Red Mountains, aka the Dornish Marches: Starfall, High Hermitage, Blackmont, Skyreach, Kingsgrave, Wyl and Yronwood. Dorne is divided into eastern and western halves south of the mountains, with the eastern half beginning in the hills around the source of the Vaith and Scourge rivers and extending to the Broken Arm, and Dorne's western half comprising mostly desert save for the sulfurous Brimstone River. The aforementioned maps show only two settlements in western Dorne, Sandstone and Hellholt, while the remaining 7-8 settlements are located in Eastern Dorne: Vaith, Salt Shore, Lemonwood, Sunspear, Ghost Hill, Godsgrace, The Tor and Planky Town. All of the settlements in eastern Dorne are located directly beside the Vaith, Scourge and Greenblood Rivers or to the north of them, save for Salt Shore on Dorne's southern coast.

These dispositions reflect what we know about the settlement patterns of Dorne's past from TWOIAF: the majority of the First Men settled in the Greenblood valley or the Red Mountains, with the Daynes, Fowlers and Yronwoods settling in the latter area and the Wades, Shells and many more settling by the former. Only the unnamed Lords of the Wells ventured into the western deserts, and these were a minority. Only with the arrival of the Andals do we know of named houses settling in the west, House Uller and Qorgyle, while the Martells, Allyrions, Jordaynes, Santagars and Vaiths settled in the east along the northern coast and in the river valleys. When the Rhoynar arrived in Dorne and finally settled they mainly stayed in the east near the coast and the river valleys, further cementing the Red Mountains and eastern Dorne as the most populous areas of the country.

The distribution of Dorne's population is also consistent with the information we have about it's geography and climate. George's inspirations for Dorne in this regard were Spain and Palestine, and Morocco also fits the bill, being regions where summers are hot and dry and winters are cool and wet. These areas also have the bulk of their population situated along the coast and in the major river valleys, which is again consistent with George's worldbuilding. More than three-quarters of the land south of the Red Mountains is arid wasteland according to TWOIAF, with the bulk of this land being flat save for the hills at the source of the Greenblood and it's tributaries, and a small mountain range between The Tor and Ghost Hill on Dorne's northern coast. Dorne's southern coast is some 400 leagues/c.1200 miles long according to Rodrick Harlaw, and is largely barren outside of Salt Shore with few sources of fresh water for passing ships to utilize.

It should also come as no surprise that Dorne's population distribution coincides with those areas with an abundance of fresh water, for consumption and agricultural purposes. Eastern Dorne is mostly scrubland with hard, rocky soil that relies heavily upon the Greenblood for irrigation; alongside the Brimstone and Torrentine, the Greenblood is the only river which does not dry up during any season. Potential sources of fresh water in the Red Mountains include the Torrentine and Wyl Rivers as well as an unnamed river that ends near Yronwood, alongside groundwater from wells and rain/meltwater collected from streams, springs and cisterns. Due to the Brimstone being sulfurous, fresh water in western Dorne comes primarily from wells, watering holes and oases.

The result of Dorne's varied geography, climate and population distribution a history of political division and the emergence of Dornish subcultures following Nymeria's wars. The Rhoynar arrived in Dorne less than 700 years before Aegon's Conquest, following the destruction of the Rhoynar Principalities by the Valyrian Freehold, prior to which the First Men and Andals had warred with each other and their Reacher and Stormlord neighbours for millenia. Nymeria and her people spent more than four years in the area of the Summer Sea before arriving in Dorne and allying with Mors Martell, and it took more than a decade to unify the Dornish lands. Four Dornish subcultures emerged in the centuries after the Rhoynar settled, known to us from the ASOIAF books and TWOIAF as the Stoney, Sandy and Salty Dornish, and the Orphans of the Greenblood.

The Orphans have a small population that lives on poleboats in the Greenblood valley and near Planky Town, and retain the language and gods of the Rhoynar, while the Salty Dornish live along the coast and retain some Rhoynar customs but have adopted the common tongue and the Faith of the Seven. The Sandy Dornish live in the deserts and the river valleys, and are closer to the Rhoynar than the Stony Dornish who live in the Red Mountains, some of whom may still practice male-preference primogeniture as opposed to absolute primogeniture. Internal divisions ensured conflict too place within Dorne even after unification, with Nymeria facing two rebellions during her 27 year reign according to TWOIAF. The Yronwoods rebelled several times in the centuries before Aegon's Conquest and supported 3 of the 5 Blackfyre rebellions; following the death of Nymeria's grandson Mors II, his successors the Red Princes (2 of 3 were female) faced further rebellions and sought to suppress the Rhoynar language, driving the Orphans to speak their mother tongue in secret only.

Other aspects of Dorne's worldbuilding will be discussed in greater detail in subsequent installments, but for now I believe this is a solid baseline for us to use. Similar to my analysis of the Velaryon Blockade, I'm going to offer my potential fix-its or improvements now as opposed to saving them all for a conclusion like I did with the Dance series. I think this is process is better based on the feedback I received for the Dance, as its better to highlight those aspects that still work and what areas can be made better as opposed to just listing off flaws ad nauseum. Although not perfect, I think that Dorne's worldbuilding is a step up from how the rest of the Seven Kingdoms are portrayed, being on par with the North and Iron Islands in terms of the information we're given about their socities and their cultural diversity. With the exception of the Vale and Riverlands to some extent, Westeros between the Neck and the Dornish Marches tends to blend together; for example, we have little indication of any differences in Westerlands culture between the coast and the Western Hills, or the mining communities and peasant farmers, despite having three major POVs from the Westerlands (Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion).

Dorne's cultural diversity is significant as there should be a greater variety of cultures and languages in Westeros just based on the great distances and different terrain, even among the First Men and Andals. That being said, there is one quibble I have concerning the four Dornish subcultures, specifically the 'Stony' and 'Sandy Dornish.' Rhoynar culture had a strong affinity with water due to their original home in the Rhoyne valley and use of water magic; TWOIAF also states that those who settled in Dorne preferred to live by the sea which had been their home during their wanderings, hence the 'Salty Dornish' culture. It doesn't really follow that the 'Sandy Dornish' should be more like the Rhoynar than the 'Stony' based on this information; if anything the reverse should be the case based on geography and settlement patterns.

Access to the sea is greater in the Red Mountains than the western desert thanks to the mouth of the Torrentine and the western coast of the Sea of Dorne, whereas Dorne's southern coast is mostly uninhabitable. The greater abundance of fertile land and fresh water in the mountains would better accommodate Rhoynar refugees than the more scarce resources of the western deserts; despite TWOIAF's references to water witches making "dry streams flow and deserts bloom," the majority of Dorne's population remains concentrated in the east and the Red Mountains, suggesting these were just legends or that water magic did not significantly improve the habitability of western Dorne.

The way the 'Sandy Dornish' and their culture are described is also contradictory; despite references to their living in the river valleys as well as the deserts, TWOIAF makes it clear that outside the valleys, "men live in different fashion" and describes the 'Sandy' way of life as centered around wells and oasis which support life in the desert. We also know that five of the six kings that Nymeria exiled to the wall were from the Red Mountains: Yorick Yronwood, Vorian Dayne, Garrison Fowler, Benedict Blackmont and Albin Manwoody, with Lucifer Dryland of Hellgate being the outlier. Largescale Rhoynar settlement in the marches should have been a priority for Nymeria in light of the opposition she faced from the lords of the Red Mountains, both to repopulate an area that had seen heavy fighting and ensure that the border of Dorne was settled with people that were personally loyal to her and had arranged marriages with the local houses.

The 'Stony Dornish' should be closer to the Rhoynar than the 'Sandy' on this basis alone, and this could have had interesting implications for the story and worldbuilding. Given the significant presence of the Andals in the western deserts, it would have been interesting to see how this remoteness affected the local development and practice of the Faith of the Seven. Ellaria Sand is a bastard of House Uller who are one of the Andal houses that settled in the desert, though we only get glimpses of her in ASOS, AFFC and ADWD; by having the 'Sandy Dornish' be more distinct, we could have seen how her houses' Andal roots affected her character if at all. Perhaps she would be closer to Tyene Sand due to her training to be a Septa, and Tyene could even instruct Oberyn and Ellaria's four daughters in the Faith? In fact this raises a broader criticism of the Dornish worldbuilding, being how the practice of the Faith in Dorne differs from the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. TWOIAF mentions that the more liberal sexual morays of the Rhoynar clashed with the teachings of the Faith, but is the Dornish Faith deemed schismatic? Were there any conflicts with the Faith hierarchy? This is a subject that would be worth exploring since the in-universe author of TWOIAF, Maester Yandel, insists that the Andals learned ironworking from the Rhoynar and that there were relations between the two peoples prior to the Andal migrations. Did Rhoynar beliefs affect the development of the Faith in Essos and vice-versa, and did this have any affect on the adopting of the Faith by the Rhoynar that settled in Dorne?

We're going to cover more issues with the worldbuilding of Dorne once we start discussing the First Dornish War itself, but for now these are the extent of my issues as concerns the foundational worldbuilding. I believe George did a solid job of constructing it despite some flaws, and that greater issues mainly arise when trying to square this portrayal of Dorne with what we're shown in the Dornish Wars.

[lemonhemlock]

One thing I do find annoying about GRRM's work is that he really lays on the 'bastardphobia' thick lmaooo. In real life, back in the medieval era, bastards weren't necessarily treated poorly per se, well depending on their fathers/mothers circumstances, I suppose, and weren't seen as these 'inherently untrustworthy, lustful creatures.' Henry VIII's bastard, Henry Fitzroy, was given a royal title and household I believe and wasn't treated like a leper or anything. Mary Queen of Scots bastard brother was a friend/advisor to her before they had a falling out or some type of conflict iirc. He also I think held noble titles/lands.

I get he's trying to make a point about bastardy in Westeros and this is a fictional story but I feel like people take this fictional Westerosi mindest and project onto actual history. Like, bastards were really not that big of a deal or whatever in real life.

On the whole, I think that men's bastards were looked upon more favourably than bastards borne by noble ladies, but in-universe it's a trope meant to explore certain themes or ideas and provide much-needed narrative tension. It may appear exaggerated at times, but it bears mentioning that not all ASOIAF bastards are controversial. The case of Dorne is one to note, of course, and there are other individual examples of bastards that are handled in a fairly chill manner - Mya Stone, Edric Storm (who would have had an OK life if it weren't for Melisandre constantly trying to kill him), Joy Hill, Garse & Garrett Flowers, Aurane Waters etc. There are enough high-born bastards that are shown to be either considered for or occupying official positions such as master-at-arms, in the City Watch, on the High Council, there's one that was Lord Commander of the Kingsguard (Addison Hill) etc. So I wouldn't even say GRRM has an axe to grind against bastards.

[mneiai]

Jon Snow's Living Situation in ASOIAF

A lot of people take for granted that it was "unusual" for Jon Snow to be raised at Winterfell, so I tried to gather information on as many natural born children mentioned in ASOIAF and related materials to see if that was true.

And it seems not to be, even in the South (outside of Dorne, even). The children born out of wedlock to highborn parents seem to be kept with them or nearby.

This is admittedly a small sample size (around 80 characters, and I didn't go too deep into it so I'm missing at least some), but it's not like this is real history, and the fact that Jon's situation is not unusual seeming from what we're shown in the books just adds to the idea that people's impressions of what is normal are not the truth of what is normal.

Northern Bastards that lived/probably lived with their families (other than Jon himself):

Brandon Snow (Torrhen Stark’s brother, most likely lived at Winterfell)

Sara Snow (Rickon Stark’s daughter during the Dance, if she existed definitely lived at Winterfell)

Dacey, Alysane, Lyra, Jorelle, and Lyanna Mormont (Maege Mormont’s daughters, father(s) unknown and most likely not married to Maege)

Denys Snow (Bastard of Barrowtown, bastard of House Dustin)

Lonnel Snow (Son of Brandon Stark from Daeron II’s reign, possibly the origin of House Cassel)

Timothy Snow (the Bastard of Flint’s Finger, presumably lived with his Flint relatives)

Northern Bastards who were acknowledged and fostered elsewhere in the North:

Larence Snow (Halys Hornwood’s son, fostered with the Glovers)

Other Bastards who seem to have lived with/near their families:

Addison Hill (Bastard of Cornfield during the Conquest)

Alys River (House Strong, a wet nurse at Harrenhal)

Aurane Waters (Bastard of Driftmark, Lord Monford Velaryon’s brother)

Bastard of Blackhaven (House Dondarrion during the conquest)

Bastard of Harrenhal (House Lothston during Daeron II’s reign)

Bryden Rivers (Bloodraven), Gwenys Rivers, Mya Rivers

Cedrik Storm (Bastard of Bronzegate, House Buckler bastard, fought Barristan Selmy)

Daemon Sand (Bastard of Godsgrace, son of Ryon Allyrion)

Daemon Waters (aka Daemon Blackfyre, son of Princess Daena and Aegon IV)

Falia Flowers (daughter of Humfrey Hewitt, though made a servant)

Joy Hill (Gerion Lannister’s daughter)

Lynora Hill (daughter of Ser Jason Lannister, works at Casterly Rock)

Obara Sand, Nymeria Sand, Tyene Sand, Sarella Sand, Elia Sand, Obella Sand, Dorea Sand, and Loreza Sand (the Sand Snakes)

Orys Baratheon (rumored bastard of Aerion Targaryen)

Red Robb Rivers (the Bowman of Raventree, bastard of House Blackwood)

Rolland Storm (Bastard of Nightsong, House Caron)

Ronald Storm (son of Ser Ronnet Connington)

Ronard Storm (House Durrandon, usurped his brother King Morden II)

Tom Flowers (Bastard of Bitterbridge, from House Caswell during the Dance)

Tyler Hill (Bastard of Lannisport, son of Lord Lyman during Maegor’s reign)

Tyrion Tanner (Lollys Stokeworth’s son)

Walda Rivers (great-granddaughter of Walder Frey)

Walder Rivers (Walder Frey’s oldest bastard son)

Walys (Maester at Winterfell under Rickard Stark, while becoming a Maester might normally be seen as sending the child away, he was the son of a Hightower and an Archmaester)

Wex Pyke (son of Sargon Botley)

(I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume if someone is called “Bastard of [seat of their family]” that they lived with their family, as Jon Snow is the “Bastard of Winterfell”)

Other Bastards who possibly lived with their families (at least for a time)

Blackshield (Bastard of Uplands, possibly of House Mullendore)

Ellaria Sand (daughter of Harmen Uller)

Garrett and Garse Flowers (Mace Tyrell’s first cousins, presumably lived with their father)

Harry Rivers (Bastard of Bracken, son of Lord Jonos Bracken)

Shiera Seastar (daughter of Aegon IV, not really confirmed where she lived her early years I don't think, though most likely in King’s Landing)

Bastards definitely not raised at home:

Aegor Rivers (Bittersteel, would have been raised in King’s Landing but Daeron and Aemon forced Aegon to send him away)

Cotter Pyke (Night’s Watch member, most likely did not live with his highborn relatives)

Edric Storm (Robert Baratheon’s son, technically was raised at his family’s seat in Storm’s End, but not at the Red Keep)

Gendry Waters (Robert Baratheon’s son)

Mya Stone (Robert Baratheon’s daughter)

All the rest of Robert Baratheon's kids

Notable bastards whose situations are not at all comparable to Jon’s:

Ramsey Snow (Roose Bolton’s son, a product of a First Night rape)

Benedict I Justman (a Blackwood/Bracken mix, so basically an abomination in the eyes of the gods lol)

Addam and Alyn Velaryon (Lord Corlys Velaryon’s probable sons, most likely purposefully hidden)

Franklyn Flowers (mother was a small folk raped by Fossoways of Cider Hall)

Glendon Flowers (could not prove parentage, claimed to be Quentyn Ball’s son with a camp follower)

Jayne and Jon Waters (Alyn Velyaron and Elaena Targaryen’s children, Alyn died when they were young but had planned to marry Elaena)

Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella (obviously)

All of Lyonel Hightower and Samantha Tarly’s children (weren’t allowed to marry, but had children anyway)

Named bastards we don’t have enough information on:

Addam Rivers (briefly a river king)

Humfrey Waters (Commander of the City Watch)

Jafer Flowers (Night’s Watch member)

Mervyn Flowers (King Aegon III KG)

Robert Flowers (former LC of the KG)

Robin Hill (former LC of NW)

Ser Samuel Stone (Runestone master-at-arms)

Tristan Rivers (Golden Company)

[seashell-hawke]

satin being my favourite minor asoiaf character is a joke bc he isn’t as minor as my other favourite minor character, joy hill, a bastard lannister cousin with one mention who lives absolutely rent free 

[lovelyllamasblog]

Sixteen Going On Seventeen from The Sound of Music but make it Lucemond

[chic-beyond-the-wall]

What Joy Hill would wear

[coldraindropsss]

Woman of house Lannister

[ao3feed-tywin]

Hidden Dragon among the Lions

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/t1P8rnV

by 10868letsgo

This started before season 1 came. Eleana Targaryen is the daughter of the Mad King and the noble house of Karstarks. During the Rebellion, Tywin Lannister he must repaid the debt to her mother. So, he taken her in and raised as his daughter name Eleanor Hill to keep her safe. Now war has come upon them and can she play part of the game or died trying?

Words: 10259, Chapters: 7/?, Language: English

Fandoms: Game of Thrones (TV)

Rating: Mature

Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings, Graphic Depictions Of Violence, Major Character Death, No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: F/M

Characters: Robb Stark, Original Female Character(s), Ned Stark, Catelyn Tully Stark, Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Bran Stark, Rickon Stark, Rickard Karstark, Torrhen Karstark, Harald Karstark, Alys Karstark, Tywin Lannister, Jaime Lannister, Cersei Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Genna Lannister, Joy Hill, Robert Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Selyse Baratheon, Renly Baratheon, Joffrey Baratheon, Myrcella Baratheon, Shireen Baratheon, Tommen Baratheon, Davos Seaworth, Aerys II Targaryen, Rhaella Targaryen (Wife of Aerys II), Rhaegar Targaryen, Viserys Targaryen (Brother of Daenerys), Daenerys Targaryen, Elia Martell, Doran Martell, Oberyn Martell, Sand Snakes (ASoIaF), Lyanna Stark, Theon Greyjoy, Euron Greyjoy, Balon Greyjoy, Asha Greyjoy | Yara Greyjoy, The Others | White Walker Character(s) (A Song of Ice and Fire)

Relationships: Robb Stark/Original Female Character(s)

Additional Tags: Slow Romance, Duty, Politics, Family Secrets, Action/Adventure, Kings & Queens, Healing, Making Love, Flashbacks, Mystery

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/t1P8rnV

[asoiaf-artbrdr]

Tyrek Lannister

I'd really like to know what happened to this kid... Anyways he's said to be around 12 years old, and handsome with golden curls. I don't think everyone with the last name Lannister would definitely have green eyes, so let's say his mom Darlessa's eyes were blue.

Joy Hill

I'm including Joy here as they're both the only children of their particular Lannister fathers. We don't get much description of her, aside from the fact that she's a lonely child... Too bad she couldn't have been Shireen's playmate, then.