#jin guangyao stans block me (｡･ω･｡)

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Jin Guangyao building a whole shady temple, filled with lacky monks in what is supposed to be Jiang Cheng's territory and province, says all it needs to that Jiang Cheng does not actually give a shit about any of the settlements and cities he supposedly is supporting.

Also says exactly what Jin Guangyao was comfortable doing right under a sect leader's nose and knowing just who he can go right under because of their apathy towards civilians only.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I will never let fandom rest trying to downplay JGY's messes because they not once actually addressed these other than to say "it can't be true" when there are multiple passages and his own words to say yes he did do this. And they parrot he had no choice when the plot itself criticizes that exact excuse for him.

Anyway come to me if you want to see him torn apart~!( ´▽｀)

*sighing* ... It's time for me to unburden myself to a kindred soul. I end up seeing so many meta posts about jgy and his various situations or justifications for whatever he did... And I'm like... Did you all forget that he burned women alive? Along with any servants or children that were in the brothel with them? Did you forget that he mass raped women by proxy and forced them to have sex with a corpse before killing them too? Did you forget that he happily killed children by setting fierce corpses on them and iirc "blamed" He Su for "making" him do it? Are we seriously going to sit here and debate about "was he really the villain for killing nmj" and "do we really have evidence that he killed jin rusong?" or "no one appreciates him for the watchtowers" ?? He would have gladly killed all the juniors too including Jin Ling? Is everyone really buying that he felt bad about that? I also just...you can tell how much those sex workers don't count as people in so many readers' eyes, they don't even think about those murders when explaining why jgy is their morally grey fave. HE'S JUST BAD, GUYS HE'S JUST BAD. I'm so tired. 😢

I think you and @jiangwanyinscatmom would get along swimmingly.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

No I won't ever stop saying Jin Guangyao should reincarnate into a worm and Nie Huaisang gets to feed him to a bird

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I still don't feel bad for Nie Mingjue's fate. He was just the other extreme side of how claiming to be "righteous" can make a person evil too. Jin Guanygao is scum of base humanity while Nie Mingjue is the scum of hypocritical righteousness. Self-serving and sanctimony, are one and the same. To love an evil, does not make that evil any more sympathetic. As is the lesson of Lan Xichen and Nie Huaisang.

Neither of those men, are any more "valid" in their revenge or sorrow than the other for who they put their trust in when the ones they cared for where simply the same side of a coin.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

JGY stans don't follow me, I only allow the only real JGY stan here, and that's @ladypfenix

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( •̀ - •́ ) 💢

૮ ა

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I have to agree, he is conniving in the ways it will benefit him, as he had long planned to get back at the brothel women until an opening was presented to get back at multiple parties at that time. Same as with his watch tower projects. Jin Guangyao does have a reputation complex, it shifted from becoming a cultivator as his mother wanted, to his father'a recognition, to chief cultivator, and then to assume the Yin Hu Fu to have even more power. There really was little reason for him to work with Xue Yang to remake it, as he is literally at the top of the cultivation world with a practically soundless reputation given how he pulled strings. If he had not been there, I think it would have simply worked out in a different but ultimately the same downfall for the Wens as Jin Guangyao was not the piece to turn the tide, multiple people were in war.

He was also practically an unknown in Wei Wuxian's eyes before he died, he had no reason to give him any sort of mind to ponder on. If anything the most likely scenerio he would attempt to ingratiate himself to the Lans or continue to have gone scotfree with others being oblivious to him if Nie Mingjue had not caught him murdering a fellow soldier.

I would love to know of an AU where SSC didn’t happen, will JGY even accept his father’s recognition? Will his father offer him the same thing? I would love to know of an AU expanded where SSC doesn’t happen for however many reasons and how it would affect everyone (which is not much) vs how it would happen if SSC happens but the Wens win for any reason (maybe wwx didn’t help Jiangs or SSC people bc he defect earlier or he just don’t have obligations bc he time travels post first siege). I would love your input on these AUs and how butterfly effect can come to play for everyone.

Honestly, I don't much care about JGY and what happens to him so I don't really think about how his actions would impact things. Without the war, I assume he wod just fade into obscurity or come up with another way to gain power.

He's like his father in that way. He capitalizes on situations and sees how he can turn them into his favor.

If the Wens win, WWX will likely be captured or subdued in some way. He's too bold and righteous for anything else. But that would be an interesting story because I can totally see WWX defecting from the Jiang Sect to protect them and then organizing a group of rebels to counteract the Wens.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Saying because of your class you have the excuse to compromise basic morals, sure is a thing that comes out of this fandom for trying to say Jin Guangyao is the same as Wei Wuxian...

Yet Wei Wuxian didn't actually compromise his own morals or basic decency morals to benefit HIMSELF, unlike Jin Guangyao. Both were effected by the bias of being seen as lower class, but one did exploit his previous class as an excuse to hurt and cause distress while he eventually profited from a rise. While one did not exploit his situation and was continually condemned without sacrificing his morals that in no way profited himself.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

My undying hatred of X-yao is forever. Any blip of it and I'm gonna be that bubble popping hater as to why Lan Xichen would always drop Jin Guangyao like a hot potato and hence why his thing for him was never romantic or sexual in meaning at any point.

It was an obligation towards someone who saved him only for that part of him to never be a resounding trait, just a matter of Jin Guangyao finding it more helpful to himself than a jeopardy at the time. And as soon as it stops being a convenience to himself, he has no problem at all to hang the ones he supposedly likes as bait when he's a rat on a sinking ship.

Lan Xichen had his doubts and is proven resoundingly right when he should have listened to his instincts and others. Everything else is gaslighting and that side of Jin Guangyao is shown as soon as he tells Lan Xichen that Lan Wangji was obviously manipulated by Wei Wuxian, all while he is planning to kill those ones he told to lay a second siege.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

9 & 13 for that Ask Game

9: worst part of canon

The entire relationship of Jin Guangyao and Lan Xichen, not because it's done badly, the opposite actually. It's just so uncomfortably spot on to abusive and a gaslighting friendship it makes me terribly uncomfortable.

13: worst blorboficiation

Jiang Cheng, hands down. When his own fanbase reads like an Onion Article but none of the actual satire, we lost this braincell. There is just so many times you can call a homophobe the light of life and deserves hugs and cuddles, and I'm wondering if your spine needs some tylenol for that reach.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

hi

I'll start this by saying you can ignore this ask if it's too annoying bc valid

but I just saw some absolutely bullshit takes when I was scrolling through mdzs posts

some people claimed that:

- jin guangyao and wei wuxian are the same and both killed for revenge so if wwx isn't evil then jgy can't be either (I- excuse me??)

- jgy did so much good for people and wwx just........ saved some wens (lmaoo???)

- jgy killed nmj out of self defense (ok so why did he keep coming back and acting nice playing/poisoning him for probably weeks if not months then????????)

- (this one is just crazy) wang lingjiao was just some poor commoner woman who couldn't fight back so wwx is awful for what he did to her

....

I'm sorry am I the crazy one here because these takes sound straight up INSANE to me like did the people who wrote it read the same novel I did??

"wwx stans are so hypocritical how can they say my baby's evil while they stan this cruel murderer who doesn't let his corpses reincarnate :((((" bitch????

I'm fairly new to the fandom and I can be wrong so can you tell me if I'm missing something (I doubt that i do tbh) but you seem very sensible and I just needed to get it off my chest

I'm not even saying people can't enjoy characters that are evil/morally gray bc some of my faves from other works are just that... but if you have to pretend these characters are some saints who didn't deserve what they got and drag down the main character just because you're salty then I don't think you like your "fave" all that much tbh

I hope you don't mind me ranting in your askbox, if you read my message then thank you for your time! Have a nice day! (I hope I didn't ruin it too much haha)

Hello anon! No I don't mind at all for this, rant away if you need to as I make my inbox open for it.

As to the idea that Wei Wuxian are similar, in terms of their status they had been born to, yes. But that's about as much of their similarity as they get. Just as how Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji are literary mirrors due to similarities in circumstance, but not mind or ideals. Yes, Wei Wuxian did kill in revenge, but he never denies this. He fully admits to this unlike Jin Guangyao, who continues to say he had no choice but to kill those that wronged him. The difference there is that, Wei Wuxian had been tortured, his guardians killed cruelly, his own sect almost was decimated by the ones he killed. Where as with Jin Guangyao, he killed many that endangered his political position or, verbally insulted him in some way. Between the two one's actions of revenge was foremost for the ones that had been wronged. For Jin Guangyao it was concerning his own ego.

Jin Guangyao never did anything for the common people. We are told several times in story that Lan Wangji, and the Lans are the outliers for this sort of thing. The watchtowers are nothing more than a repainting of the Wen's Advisory Offices and keep in mind, it was still under the approval of Jin Guangshan that they even were created. From a Jin Guangyao who wanted to please his father foremost. He also burned down a brothel of prostitute women, where in that, shows he cares for commoners of his own background?

A scum of a person, can be human and sympathetic, but it does not change that they themselves are in the end selfish, cruel and manipulative. That's what makes them terrifying, they use that sympathy to cause more hurt. Wei Wuxian never holds others hate of what he had done as unfair, just that he would not take rebuttal for what he never did and stands by what he did. Jin Guangyao never takes any sort of responsibility towards the ones he drags into his schemes and continues to say he needed to with no sympathy for the ones who had been innocent, saying that he should be the one pitied and forgiven.

You can like and enjoy an evil, just don't paint it as a saint when that is what the very work is against and criticizing. We are told that Wei Wuxian is meant as an ideal of morality, who this is still argued about and he is labeled "morally grey" and "just as wrong as the others" is just wrong from a literary and plot point of the book.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

"We should all understand and be sympathetic to what made Jin Guangyao into what he was"

Literally, no, he had at one point been sympathetic, but he lost that when he admitted it wasn't his own mother being degraded after death, but his own self and being ignored by his trash of a father, that set him to ruin others. He didn't have any reason what so ever to rape the prior prostitutes he once knew, or killed the CHILDREN of the Tingshen He clan, all of which was to show his dominance of power over them and humiliate them before they died.

He is nothing like Wei Wuxian and the only thing sympathetic out of his death was that it still is rooted in classism and feeds into the same thing that hurt Wei Wuxian.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Am I a hypocrite? I am perfectly happy to let JGY die (I don't hate him as an antagonist, at least not until the mass rape, but I like to really dislike him and find ways to detach him from LXC) and even more happy for JC to end up still bitter and miserable and alone (the fanon JC is actually a dreadful bore) but NHS I look for all sorts of excuses and happy every afters for.

Thematically the book heavily works with the frame of karma. Specifically what that means for Chinese Buddhism and how it incorporates into Daoist philosophy. Specifically, 因果 (yīnguǒ) the cause and effect you earn from actions and your karma you have made from those actions. And, for Daoism, every action is supposed to be natural. There is a preordained nature of karma from the gods that deem what an individual has. It moves on to inherited karma of the ancestors and self, which ordained why and how you reincarnate in a cycle of Samsara. Finally we get the concept of merit to improve your karma.

That last point is significant as Jin Guangyao built Guanyin Temple to elevate his mother's "karma" she died with for a better samsara. On a philosophical level of daoism, there is no good or evil action, but there is balance of how those effect life. Revenge vs forgiveness vs effect of either. To be doaist, is to be above the worldly sufferings of the world, to follow the natural path of action effect without turmoil.

In that way, Nie Huaisang, was an effect of Jin Guangyao's karmic debt he had accrued. What is hypocrisy and what is forgiveness is human nature a part of that karmic fate. Personal suffering is a consequence of that and what is strived to be above. What may seem evil in intent as humans doesn't necessarily mean it is in karmic retribution to natural ways of the world.

Do I see Jin Guangyao as worse in human nature as well as karmic action, yes, that is expounded on as each of his actions are uncovered. Is Nie Huaisang also evil, depends I suppose on what moral personal level someone has due to what his actions did to others. But on a karmic level he balanced a wrong in the order of the world. Regardless of good or bad. Personally, I wouldn't WANT to deal with either man.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Sorry I saw one of your posts saying petty reasons to hate Jin Guangyao and I can’t accept it. There are absolutely no petty reasons to hate that man! Every reason to hate him is valid. My first thought when I saw him in the animation (without translation or knowing the story at all) was that the man was the biggest bastard there is, such a punchabable face, he should have been punched in the temple...

This is very true, lu cha biao to the core it just oozes that aura.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Why are JGY stans?

I ask that as well every time I log on this site and see "Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian are equally morally grey".

Well, in order to BE morally grey, you kind of have to want to do good for others in the long run, against the socially accepted laws of your community. Jin Guangyao never wanted to do good for others, and only wanted to further himself. Which makes his crimes pile up as he drags in many that are not needed to assert his power.

At the barest definition, to the cultivation world, Wei Wuxian can be considered "morally grey", if not for the fact that the audience itself is not supposed to question Wei Wuxian's position as what he does is usually always for the well being of others, that the world despises. We are supposed to be horrified and angered along with Wei Wuxian as to what is done to the Wens, and the hypocrisy of the Jianghu making excuses for their immorality.

In turn, Jin Guangyao is the cover of grey morality for the Jianghu world as a whole personified.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Jin Guangyao when he decided to go to the Jins

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Actually Jin Guangyao is basically a green bell pepper for me. That's how I will explain my hate of him