#jess is more like christopher than logan is

[that-was-a-bit-stupid-of-you]

Why are so many christopher antis logan antis too? They are literally nothing alike, except being rich

[apathyfairy]

i spent 3 months watching gilmore girls and i finally finished it and a year in the life and then netflix is like hmm what should we recommend... gilmore girls season 1 episode 1 is starting in 3 seconds

[vindieselsfacebook-blog]

I want to hear more about your opinion that Rory ending up with Logan would go against everything the show stands for. How so? Tell me more!

Bless your heart (complimentary) for asking for MORE of my rambling! :’)

I think there are a few themes that ultimately guide the entire Gilmore Girls narrative. No matter where the plot and characters end up, if ASP is writing, I think the outcome will always adhere to these themes and a specific pattern.

The most important is family - how complicated and imperfect it is, how patterns repeat and break and struggle to repeat and break. We try our best and love in our own ways, but inevitably fuck things up, too. We just keep working at it, which is beautiful and painful and frustrating and gratifying. I think found family and community is just as important, which leads me to the second theme, which is independence and/or individuality.

The show centers Lorelai's quest to build her own life from the ground up which is a pattern I feel repeats in most of the main characters. She rejects upper class life to work a blue collar job, make her own home, build a new family unit with her daughter and close friends, and aspires to small business owner life. Luke shares those values and has a similar journey - taking his father's store and making his own, new thing from the ashes. Jess, the character with the most positive character growth, repeats that pattern, too. He struggles until he, too, strikes out on his own to build his independent life from scratch.

The third theme is class struggle. Although I do think it's clear the show has more respect for the working class, it loooves playing with the back-and-forth of it all and never takes itself too seriously to poke fun at it. It's fun to sometimes see Emily's point even if it's often buried in shallow superficialities. It's thought-provoking to agree with Richard that Rory should use her grandparents' privileges, although we've been rooting for her to make it on her own. We respect Lorelai's independence, but want to yell "just take the money!" when she needs a loan. Or we judge her for it and think "you're not so independent after all."

I love scenes like this one at the end of S4E15, Scene In A Mall:

Lorelai: This is your window on a whole other world, Luke. The world of worthless rich people stuff. People of means see what they want and simply take it, regardless of others. Luke: ... d'you pour your own coffee? Lorelai: Oh, err, yeah. Luke: You're not supposed to do that. Lorelai: Oh yeah, sorry, I won't do it again. Luke: Mmm hmm.

Like, yeah, rich people suck and we dunk on them all the time, but hey, even queen main character can be selfish and hypocritical. No one's really above it!

Anyway, all that to say... Rory is clearly set up to have a similar trajectory where a wrench is thrown in her plans and she won't ever really get back on track until she, too, burns her life to the ground and independently starts all over. She just struggles with the push-and-pull of it all more than her mother ever did.

I get frustrated with fans who think her ending up pregnant like her mother is some pessimistic "history is doomed to repeat itself and no one can ever really change" message, when I see it as her being set up for her inevitable successful ending. She has to figure it out for herself on her own terms. This is why I feel she and Jess will be linked together forever, romantically or not.

If Rory had ended up with Logan, that crash and burn would've just come later. She would've been unsatisfied in that life. Rory and Logan always went to each other for escapism and fantasy - it just doesn't make thematic sense to me that he would ever be a legitimate happily-ever-after option. It's simply not how things are done on this show. Even Emily ultimately follows the pattern - she starts a new life as a more independent person rejecting the "bullshit!"

And conversely, look who is set up in contrast - Christopher is the coward who could never fully run away from his guided cage. The show repeatedly calls him "weak" and makes it clear he's not as brave and independent as Lorelai. He ends up isolated from his kids, accepting the status quo. And ohhh boy, look what his parallel is doing in AYITL - Logan is accepting the dynastic plan, working for daddy and marrying the heiress. That is not the story of a viable end game to me! It feels pretty clear.

Phew - you asked for it! lmao I hope I articulated this well enough??

[theonethatwatchesalotofshows]

Pros and cons of every Gilmore Girls season

Season 1

Pros: cozy vibes, everything is new, some of the best episodes of the show, Christmas episode, Lorelai and Luke's sexual tension,

Cons: boring love stories, Tristan, The Damn Donna Reed episode, Rory ending up with Dean in the end and the show trying to brainwash us into thinking it's romantic

Season 2

Pros: still cozy vibes, Jess is introduced, finally some good love interests and love stories, Tristan leaves, Lane discovers her love for drums

Cons: Rory is with Dean the whole season and they argue in almost every episode

Season 3

Pros: still cozy vibes, Rory and Jess are together, some of the best episodes and town events are in this season, Thanksgiving episode, Lorelai gets an okay love interest, Lane forms a band, Dave is introduced, Lane and Dave are together, Rory gets into Yale, Rory's graduation, Lorelai and Sookie finally decide to open the inn

Cons: the stupid student government storyline, Luke is with Nicole, Rory never gets the chance to have sex with Jess, Rory and Jess don't go to prom with Lane and Dave

Season 4:

Pros: no Christopher! This is the only Christopher free season on the show! Also Rory starts Yale and the separation from Stars Hollow is handled well, Lorelai opens the inn, Jess is in this season a few times, Luke can see her face, Luke and Lorelai finally kiss, Lane becomes independent

Cons: Rory sleeps with Dean, Dean is too much in this season and has a stupid haircut, Paris dates her professor, Dave leaves and breaks up with Lane for a stupid reason, Richard's stupid mustache

Season 5

Pros: Luke and Lorelai finally together, Rory tells Christopher to leave them alone, Emily and Richard separate and get back together, Paris and Doyle

Cons: we are subjected to Rory and Dean round 3 for the first eight episodes, Lane starts liking and dating Zach out of nowhere, it's also unclear why exactly Rory likes Logan, no Jess, soap opera-esque drama starts happening all the time

Season 6

Pros: Jess comes back a changed man, the second Thanksgiving episode of the series, Rory's 21st birthday, The Friday Night's Alright for Fighting episode

Cons: soap opera-esque storyline continue happening all the time- it is revealed that Luke has a secret long lost kid, Rory and Lorelai don't even talk for the first 8 episodes of this season, Luke and Lorelai don't get married, Rory and Jess don't get back together, Lane and Zach get married, Lorelai sleeps with Christopher, Anna Nardini

Season 7

Pros: Luke punches Christopher, Rory's graduation, Paris's speech about how Rory is a great person, Richard's speech about how Lorelai is a remarkable person, Lorelai writes the character reference for Luke

Cons: for more than half a season Christopher is there all the time, Christopher and Lorelai get married, Lane gets pregnant, Marty turns into a horrible person, no Jess, new writers and it's evident

[maybe-this-time]

Thinking about Rory Gilmore and how her entire life pre-Yale was people telling her who she was and wasn’t and striving to live up to the expectations and ideas she and Lorelai set for her when she was a child. And how any attempt to branch out on her own or deviate was met with disapproval (Lorelai freaking out about any college other than Harvard, the idea of Rory not being the golden child, dating Jess, etc), about her essentially being denied the chance and room to fail safely.

How as early as Chilton she was showing signs of being overwhelmed and not being able to handle it but not allowed room to figure herself out.

How she tried to retreat to the last time she felt like her mother’s idea of Rory (studious, obedient, with Dean) and how even that is gone now bc Dean’s married and everything is wrong and she’s still failing. And the more she tries to find herself and falls on her face, the less supportive Lorelai becomes because she’s not *her* idea of Rory. Seriously, you could make a drinking game out of how many times she's told "This isn't you" or someone says a variation of "Rory would never do this/that"

How if Lorelai had just been supportive when she wanted to take a break from school and figure out what she actually wants, Rory might’ve been able to straighten herself out. How if she had just listened to her child that was clearly having a mental breakdown/identity crisis, instead of digging her heals in about who she thinks Rory is, then Rory might've been able to find something she was actually good at or that she wanted to do.

But since she’s punished anytime she tries to have her own identity, she instead ended up the sad, aimless knock-off Lorelai we see in the revival. Rory has to be a journalist because she told her mother that's what she wanted when she was a young child, and she's not allowed to change or reevaluate herself at all because her mother will throw a fit.

She is trapped by Lorelai, even down to her own name. Robbed of her own identity. When she finally does find success or a purpose, it is in writing about Lorelai and her life, as she herself is now repeating her mother's patterns (pregnant, Logan/Christopher, Jess/Luke, etc). She is completely defined by her mother, her mother's ideas, and her mother's desires.

[the-overreactress]

Fellow Appalachia enthusiast! Which Gilmore Girls characters would thrive in Appalachia and what would they love best about it?

I love this question!!! So glad to see there are other Appalachian enthusiasts out there in the ether.

Luke would easily be the one to LOVE living in Appalachia. His quiet, unassuming nature fits the region best, I think. He'd own a diner in a small Appalachian town, go fishing on his off time, and live a cabin in the woods. As someone from an Appalachian town comparable to Stars Hollow, I remember the grumpy diner owner there fondly. (Holler!! Now I want to write a Gilmore Girls/Appalachian AU titled Stars Holler). Luke would THRIVE in Appalachia.

Lorelai and Rory feel slightly too city girl to live in a holler, but they would like Roanoke or Ashveille, I think. They take an annual pilgramge to Dollywood and Pigeon Forge and make fun of tourists together. They'd share an undying obsession with Dolly Parton and her incredible park food (seriously, Dollywood has the best park food.) Lorelai would appreciate and participate in Appalachia's long hand-crafting and quilting cultures. Imagine if she owned an Inn there and sourced all of the decor, bedding, and art from local artisans. Same goes for Sookie and the food. (Sookie and Luke would make amazing biscuits, ham, and collard greens!!)

Rory would love Appalachia's literary history. We already know her appreciation for William Faulkner, Flannery O'Connor, Thomas Wolfe, etc. She'd appreciate the cultural landmarks of Appalachia (The AT, FoxFire, labor union history, etc.) more than the daily life there. I think it may bore her. This is why she'd like Asheville or Roanoke more than anywhere else. Both of those cities are full of artists and writers. Also, Roanoke is a local news haven.

I could only see Jess living there permanently in a city like Roanoke or Pittsburgh (which I'm choosing to include here because I feel sure he'd like it and its in PA). Places like Huntington, Morgantown, and Ashveille would remind him too much of Liz/TJ (hippy dippy druggy) for him to fully enjoy them. He would also be the type to visit Luke for a few days and revel in the quiet magnificence of the mountains. He reminds me a little of James Still, an Appalachian contemporary of the Beats. I could see him taking 6 months off from Truncheon, renting a cabin in the woods, and writing a book. Jess would appreciate the solitude of Appalachia the most. (I miss this aspect of it the most, myself.)

Characters who I think would love Appalachia: Lane (the live music), Richard (history buff, though he'd have a complex about it), Christopher (he'd love riding his motorcycle on the Blue Ridge Parkway), Sookie & Jackson (the agriculture and food ways), and really, the enitre Stars Hollow Gang, especially Taylor. Liz and TJ strike me as WV types, Huntington or Morgantown. They can't afford Asheville (trust me, no one can.)

Characters who I think would hate Appalachia: Logan, Paris, and Emily. Emily might enjoy the vineyards, musuems, and things specifically tailored to wealthy, Northeastern visitors. I can see her calling most of it "quaint." Logan and Paris would be the ones to make cruel incest jokes. Sorry to all you Logan and Paris lovers, but that's completely true.

I hope I didn't miss anyone! This was a great ask, thank you :D

[teddypickerry]

gg topics i could talk about forever + my hottakes!

i’ve seen a few people do their own version of this for their first watch soooo let me do it after seeing the show a little more than one time.

+ jess’s childhood. i have so many questions, so many points. what do you mean his mom drank while she was pregnant with him? what do you mean your mother is a whackjob? what do you mean you can’t sleep without music blasting? what do you mean you literally raised your self in the city while your mom was off getting married or binge drinking?

+ TRISTIAN HAVING LOGAN’S STORYLINE? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

+ logan brought out the absolute WORST in rory.

+ emily is a horrible parent. a. horrible. parent. yes, she’s funny. yes, she’s one of the best characters. but if you justify her parenting, you’ve clearly never grown up with a parent like that.

+ why rory shouldn’t have ended up with any of her boyfriends from the show.

+ rory wasn’t a bad friend to paris or lane!!!! JFC.

+ zach fucking sucks. i don’t know how you guys justify him.

+ rory’s daddy issues and how they never actually talk about its depth, how much christopher hurt her. and how he only came back for his benefit with lorelai or sherry.

+ rory never understood jess and they wouldn’t have had a good relationship in the end.

+ each character’s music taste. you guys are soooo off (what the fuck makes you think lorelai would be a swiftie?).

+ PEOPLE ARE TEAM DEAN ONLY BECAUSE JARED IS GOOD LOOKING. THERE ARE NO OTHER ASSETS. LITERALLY NONE. BESIDES, OH, MAYBE SCREAMING AT HIS WIFE AND CHEATING ON HER?

+ rory being the child emily and richard never got and how hard that must’ve been on lorelai :(

+ jess’s fidgeting and mannerisms 🥹

+ jess (once again) was just a kid. he was JUST A KID. he was barely eighteen begging his dad to even stay the night, he was eighteen living in that shithole in nyc.

+ yeah, lane deserved a lot better but i don’t think she should’ve been a famous drummer. nor should she have been best friends with jess!!!

+ yeah jess and paris had one good scene together, but they wouldn’t have been best friends bonding over literature. they’d hate eachother within hours.

+ how was rory with dean for over a year as teenagers and they never got together until years later? maybe i’ve just been around the wrong teenage boys but i’ve never known a teenage boy who went over a year happily without putting out.

+ rory and lorelai BOTH have their insufferable moments. but they’re human, of course they make mistakes.

+ on the same topic, watching the show while absolutely hating one of them/loving the other is… insane. pure insanity. it’s called gilmore GIRLS for a reason.

[queenunderthatmountain]

Literati endgame?

okay but i really didn't get why everyone hated the gilmore girls ending because for me it seems like a Jess and Rory endgame is actually quite possible (and likely).

Okay, so we know only that she's with Logan's baby.

But (sorry team Logan) it seems kinda clear that she's not gonna end up with him. First of all, I think her being lost and suddenly becoming pregnant on accident is an obvious parallel to Lorelei, so it makes sense to me she's gonna be a single mother for a while. Even more so, because Logan and Christopher are soo much alike. (yes Logan is much older and more mature then Christopher was at 16 but Chris was a shitty dad way longer).

And if you were able to look past Logans red flags in gilmore girls (sleeping with like 4 different people right after allegedly breaking up, looking down on people with less money, being a dick towards Jess for no reason) after AYITL I don't think anyone can deny that he's just not a great guy who cheats on his fiance with no remorse whatsoever. So yeah, I actually dont know if he would want to be in the kids and rorys life, but I just dont think it would work out either way.

So now to Jess.

Yes, you can have a different interpretation, but to me he just looked at Rory not only lovingly but with so much longing and even pain in his eyes that its obvious hes not over her and still in love.

Hes appeared when Rory was lost before, when she drOpped out if yAle and later, when she was without job or underwear. Jess had the idea with the book as well, so he kind of guided her towards a new path, I cant imagene him not taking part in the process of her book writing. She was so exited to show him the first three chapters, I think she would want to include him later as well, or maybe ask him for advice as a writer (maybe he'd be the publisher?).

So I definitely belive it's realistic for him to still be in her life, and maybe support her with her kid in some ways (like Luke?)

And now to Rory.

I do think it was right for her to move on after he left, but it always felt so incomplete to me, I was so sure they'd get back together a second time, sometime after him telling her he loves her. I truly believe they are soulmates, in the way that they understand each other better than anyone else, like the same things, have so much in common. Hes was very troubled and disturbed when they were dating, but he was the only boyfriend who really worked on himself (Logans not sleeping around doesnt count) and changed.

And while I am sure she did love Jess, it just doesnt feel right that she never said it back. Yes we got "might have loved you" but idk thats just not enough.

They were dating for such a short time compared to the others, did not even have sex (which could make a relationship appear more serious) yes they had this incredible connection, they still care so much about each other and immediately talk like they used to, even when they havent spoken in years.

So yeah, I think the timing was never right, at first Jess was too troubled, then Rory was in love with Logan, but I really do believe that not only did she always love him, i think a part of her was always IN love with him.

Now, that their lifestyles could sympathize I think she would see that, and no way he'd be like "yeah sorry too late". They needee their time, like Lorelei and Luke, but in the end I see them.

[frazzledsoul]

Yeah, guys, I like Jess more than Rory, and I am more interested in his well-being than in hers. AYITL era Rory has a lot of problems and is still a long way away from being a viable partner for anyone. I do not think Jess should place his nice life in Philadelphia on hold for her, and while I hope they could become closer as they work on the book project and possibly reconcile, I see little appeal in him basically giving up everything and just waiting around for years while Rory gets her shit together, or becoming the de facto father figure for her kid until Rory finally accepts him.

This is also because I do care for Logan as well, and I kind of like the idea of the kid giving him an out from the life he didn't want and him choosing to show up just for that reason alone. Just because Christopher is a spineless loser who only saw his child as a means to get to her mother, does that mean everyone has to be that way? And aside from the cheating, he did have most of his shit together too.

Is there a way to work all this shit out so that all three of them can raise this kid and be happy? I actually do believe so, but if that's going to happen, that means that the story isn't just going to revolve around what's good for Rory, because there are a lot of other people, involved too.

This is not the story ASP would write, or what her implied intentions were, but I don't care. She's not the boss of me. She wants everyone to become their parents and for the story to focus on Emily and Lorelai having the same arguments forever (don't take my word on it, just read one of the many clickbait articles about a second revival circulating right now).

So, anyway, yeah. Shipper concerns are not my primary interest in this show. Never have been, really.

[sergeantpixie]

If you're still doing top fives---top five unpopular Gilmore Girls opinions! And top five Riverdale opinions :)

Sure! Why not :)

Gilmore Girls:

The revival really isn’t that bad, it’s just not what everyone wanted. It’s not even necessarily what I want but I enjoy it for what it is.

Rory really isn’t that bad, she’s just never been as good as anyone in the show thinks she is - because no one is that good. I don’t mind that her life fell apart and she had to try again, it’s the most relatable shit in the world. Characters having to rebuild their lives is very interesting to me, though.

Logan and Rory are like Luke and Lorelai: Rory is the hermit like Luke and Logan is the sunshine-y extrovert who gets her out of her shell like Lorelai does with Luke. Logan has always had more in common with Lorelai than he does with Christopher. (Also plays into my thoughts about how Rory and Lorelai are also two very fundamentally different characters and it's unfair to put Rory into the Lorelai mould.)

Logan isn’t the Tristan replacement, Jess was. He came in the show just as CMM was leaving and stepped into the role of Forrester’s antagonist/rival. Tristan and Logan are superficially alike but Jess and Tristan fulfilled the same role in Rory’s life, the unsafe option in comparison to Forrester. Tristan and Rory wouldn’t have been anything like Logan and Rory. I like Jess a lot more than I like Tristan so in a way i’m glad it worked out the way it did with CMM leaving. Also learning that Jess’ character was only created as a way to prevent Luke and Lorelai from getting together definitely colors my perception of his character arc.

Lorelai is right and Emily is right and that’s kind of the point. Lorelai did have a miserable lonely childhood with people who didn’t understand her. Emily did give everything she had to a daughter who rejected her. The point has always been that Lorelai did not belong in her parents’ world and they don’t understand that so they can only be hurt by her rejection.

Riverdale:

disclaimer: i saw like…ten episodes of this show.

1. The switch up on Alice Cooper’s character is terrible and I hate that people love her when she was clearly controlling and cruel to her daughters, they should not have made her a lovable character.

2. It would’ve been more interesting if Cheryl killed Jason. On purpose. I don’t want to elaborate too much because I have a fic in the works along these lines but this is the entire reason I started the show in the first place: I thought Cheryl was the one who murdered Jason and I was so into that.

3. Jughead should’ve been asexual/aromantic like his comic book counterpart. Not telling the cole sprouse fans not to thirst, y’all do y’all my babies tbh, just saying it would’ve been great center stage representation that the ace/aro community deserves and rarely gets. (Which is a large part of my disinterest in bughead.)

4. Betty and Cheryl have a more interesting dynamic than Veronica and Betty.

5. idek if this is unpopular or not but like this show basically ripped off every show ever so it’s really not that unique. it’s like Glee, Pretty Little Liars, Gossip Girl, and Twin Peaks had a baby and then no one ever told that baby "No" or gave it any structure so it grew up to be this mess who can’t commit to any storyline and just "yes and"-ed itself into the ground.

[maya-matlin]

If you ever feel like talking about Gilmore Girls: 1) How would you rank the seven seasons from most favorite to least? Feel free to throw in the revival too! 2) Five favorite characters? In order if you can, in any order if you can't! 3) Top three romantic ships despite how much I agree with you about this show being dreadful at writing couples once they were finally together? 4) Top three platonic ships (For instance, Rory/Lorelai, Lorelai/Sookie, Luke/Jess...and I know that you know what the word platonic means, so don't ask why I felt compelled to include examples!) 5) Your five *least* favorite romantic relationships? 6) Five or more unpopular opinions about the show? There's never any pressure to answer if you don't have the time or energy!

Seasons:

1.) Season 3

2.) Season 2

3.) Season 1

4.) Season 4

5.) Season 5

6.) Season 6 (mostly the first half)

7.) Season 7 (mostly for the post-Lorelai/Christopher episodes)

8.) Season 8 (has good moments, but suffers from feeling as though the characters were left frozen in time so that plots could be reworked into being plausible nearly a decade after the show ended and needed to trim A LOT of the unnecessary fat in favor of tighter characterization/development)

Five favorite characters:

1.) Lorelai Gilmore

2.) Luke Danes

3.) Jess Mariano

4.) Rory Gilmore

5.) Emily Gilmore

Top three romantic ships:

1.) Luke/Lorelai

2.) Rory/Jess

3.) Richard/Emily

Top three platonic ships:

1.) Lorelai/Rory

2.) Lorelai/Emily

3.) Luke/Jess

Five least favorite romantic ships:

1.) Lorelai/Christopher

2.) Rory/Dean

3.) Paris/Asher

4.) Luke/Nicole

5.) Rory/Logan

Five or more unpopular opinions about the show:

1.) Even though I don't like Dean and don't feel as though he's consistently written especially after Jess shows up, I have some sympathy for him during seasons 3-5 in regards to his failed marriage. He was a stupid kid who rushed into marriage with a girl he had barely dated while on the rebound and because their families normalized jumping into marriage right out of high school. I think anyone in that situation would have eventually self destructed and blew their life apart. So while I disliked his affair with Rory and believe it was incredibly selfish, it's not totally surprising that it happened. His behavior during his cameo in the revival gives me the impression Dean eventually grew up and ended up happily married once he was ready to be a husband.

2.) Richard is a great character and clearly loved his family, but sometimes he gets a pass for terrible behavior because his presence in the girls' life isn't as consistent as Emily's and because he's much more underhanded and passive aggressive than she is. So even though I missed Edward Herrman's presence in the revival, it was refreshing to see Emily on her own.

3.) Even though the little bit we were given of Jess's arc following season 3 was more good than bad, it's understandable why Rory could never take Jess back. As much as I would have liked to have seen Jess around on a more regular basis to the point he officially reconciled with Rory, he's on the periphery of Rory's life so infrequently that nothing of much significance ever happens. When he's around particularly in season 6 and the revival, he says the right things and gently inspires Rory to make the best decision for her life when she's in a transitional phase. But then, Jess is gone again, and Rory is left with her normal life. Just because Jess keeps popping back up, always a better version of himself than when she last saw him, doesn't mean that she's necessarily the asshole for not wanting to leave something more certain and familiar such as her relationship with Logan to take that chance again with Jess when she's known him to be a leaver. I don't know. This isn't even all that critical of their relationship. I just feel that until Jess finds a way to be in Rory's life and stay there, they don't stand a chance of getting anywhere.

4.) Lane and Zach > Lane and Dave. Lane's relationship with Dave was very sweet and was the first time we saw Lane in a relationship where someone truly understood her. But that relationship was also pretty fleeting and not super memorable in the grand scheme of things. Even though Adam Brody is the better actor and more charismatic, I feel like Zach was Lane's best pairing. While Zach had his flaws and was afflicted with the same curse all Gilmore Girls men have, aka being perfectly pleasant and then blowing up on a semi regular basis to keep the relationship drama going, he truly loved Lane and proved himself to be a devoted husband and father. Their relationship and all the Hep Alien scenes were some of my favorite parts of the later seasons.

5.) I liked the Rory/Lorelai rift. It was painful to watch, but was also necessary from a story line standpoint. Rory needed to make her own decisions independently of Lorelai's guidance. I only wish the story line had ended with the two meeting in the middle rather than Rory conceding on everything so that they could fully make amends.

[thatscarletflycatcher]

Curious things about the Gilmore Girls pilot that the fandom has probably mentioned 1000 times, but that I just picked up on on rewatch:

Rory and Lane talk about Lane's parents, plural, in their first conversation (so I guess they were open to the idea of writing Mr Kim in at some point, and then never did).

Christopher is said to have his own company, an internet startup in California (a weirdly specific thing to be linked as a parallel between Christopher and Logan by the writers of S7, considering they chose to otherwise deviate from the "Logan is Rory's Christopher" narrative).

While throughout the series for as long as Rory is under 21, a point is made that her grandparents never make her an alcoholic drink on Friday night dinner, Emily does give her champagne to drink here.

As much as we usually focus on Emily as the main person alternatively freezing or poking Lorelai, in the pilot it is Richard who, not only does not contribute to trying to make the first Friday night dinner nice (by bringing the newspaper in), but also the one to attack her (calling the Independence inn a motel, bringing up Christopher and telling Rory that her being clever is probably her taking after her dad, etc) while Emily tries to de-escalate things, and then he falls asleep.

While it is true that ASP had a weird attachment to Christopher, you get the sense that, whatever her thoughts later in time, the pilot does firmly set up Javajunkie by the whole "Lorelai noticing Luke looks nice when he dresses up a bit" thing at the end of the episode.

That does not deny how much of an anomaly Jess is in the big scheme of things. Because the Lorelai triangle is Luke-Lorelai-Christopher since early in the show, and Rory's equivalent there clearly is Dean-Rory-Tristan that was to be Logan. Not that Dean ends up being like Luke, but they do try for a while (the infatuation, the bracelet and the car trying to show that he can do things with his hands, even a certain literary interest to mirror the way in which both Luke and Lorelai manage businesses...), and he definitely fits the mold of a certain CW jock high school sweetheart the heroine will end up with once she comes around because he's always been there for her (like Harvey from Sabrina the Teenage Witch). Certainly Jess morphs into a Luke-like figure, but this and his evolving closeness to Luke seem more like a nice plotline the writers stumbled upon than something that really belongs in the bare structure of the show (I cannot think of a single sort of father-son relationship that isn't tense and adversarial and ending in betrayal, of the few we have in it). Besides that, I think there is a point to the running joke of the kissing cousins for Rory and Jess after AYITL in this direction. You don't really plan for an uncle-and-nephew-marry-mother-and-daughter as endgame in anything outside a comedy that isn't a period drama. This is all to say, lovers and haters, I don't think we appreciate enough the impact Jess Mariano's existence had to break the show from the mold.

[bellamysgriffin]

I think that Logan’s role in the “drop out of Yale” was to provide a mirror for Lorelei as a teen and as a parent. Lorelei finally experienced how her parents felt when she moved out and “abandoned” them. Richard and Em had dreams for their daughter like Lorelei had dreams for Rory. They both were set to attended a top school and had these ideas of what their child’s life would turn out to be and when those plans fell apart, the parents were scared, disappointed, and drew a hard line on it. The difference is that both of their children had different needs. 

Lorelei left in search of Stars Hollow for more independence at a time when she felt suffocated by her parents dreams and Rory went to her grandparents for the security that she no longer had now that her long-held dreams for herself failed to materialize in the way that she’d hoped. 

Both parents blame outside influences (the boyfriends) on their child’s choices but those decisions were made all on their own, without influence. It’s not Logan’s fault that Rory drops out and becomes lost and it’s not Christopher’s fault that Lorelei makes the choices that she does either. 

In my opinion, Rory would’ve had to go through that period at some point - no matter who she dated. It’s a lot like the parallel arc for Jess at the end of Season Three. It didn’t matter how much he loved her or what that relationship meant to him. He needed that time to develop as a person and find out who he is and what he wants. 

The reconnection and pep talk still wasn’t the time for Rory and Jess but that relationship, and what that relationship was for both of them, is such an important point for their development as people. 

To tie it back in, Lorelei comes at it from the perspective of what her own dreams were for her child. Because Lorelei is clouded by her role as a parent, at that moment, Jess is the one person that knows her as well as Lorelei and can remind Rory of who she is and what her dreams were for herself before it all fell apart. Not just because he knows her well but because he’s been there too.

you know, i think you're right that there are definitely some comparisons/parallels to be made between rory and lorelai, but i think it's more about the contrast between these situations than similarities. yes, lorelai left in search of independence, but more than that, she ran away because she was pregnant and her parents were trying to force her to marry christopher, her high school boyfriend. i don't think lorelai was trying to exert the same control over rory's life that emily & richard were trying to exert over hers.

i think the reason lorelai blamed logan was partly because it was logan's father who said what made rory want to drop out. i do think it is partly bc he reminds her of christopher too.

that said, the main difference b/t lorelai and rory is that i don't think rory was giving up on "lorelai's" dream for her in the same way lorelai gave up on her parents' dream for her. for one thing, the show is pretty consistent in the early seasons that harvard is rory's dream, not lorelai's -- and also, lorelai is very supportive of the switch to yale.

the conflict between lorelai and rory is more about rory wilting in response to the first setback in her life. the problem is not that rory gave up on lorelai's dreams, it's that she gave up on her own. rory is not running away from lorelai. she goes to her grandparents because lorelai won't give her what she wants. if lorelai had said, "sure, abandon your ambitions and live here in stars hollow with me," rory would never have gone to her grandparents.

so i agree that there are interesting parallels but it points out a difference in their character. lorelai rejects a lifestyle that rory later embraces. lorelai wanted freedom. rory wanted to be indulged. lorelai wanted independence. rory wanted dependence. lorelai could see the negative consequences of rory's actions -- not just leaving school, but why she was leaving school. she is very explicit about that when talking to rory and talking about it with her parents. i don't think it's about what she wants for rory more than her worry over rory's motivations for dropping out. bc rory was dropping out for a very bad reason! someone who is so easily undone is not going to have a happy life -- at least, that's what lorelai was worried about with rory. and rory comes to agree. i don't think that storyline for rory was about gaining independence from her mom but about regaining self-belief -- which is what i think is interesting about it. but that's a very different narrative from young lorelai.

and to touch on the jess thing, i think it's less that he has less stake in rory's dream than lorelai's, and more that he's someone rory hasn't seen in over a year. he's someone from her past, approaching it from a fresh angle -- and obviously someone she cares about and someone who knew her at her best -- and it's exactly the shock she needs to see her life from an outside perspective.

[wickcdcreations]

doing my 684957th rewatch gilmore girls and figured i'd type up some plot ideas inspired by some of the ships from the show. feel free to hit me up if any interest you and we can expand on them.

lorelai gilmore x christopher hayden — muse a and muse b have known each other their entire lives, it feels like they were always meant to end up together but of course life is never that simple. the two can never seem to be on the same page in life and when muse a seems to have their life together, muse b is out trying to find their grounding. even though things never work the way either one wants it to, they always seem to find themselves coming back to one another. when muse b says they finally have everything figured out and ready to start a life together, muse a isn't quick to believe them. is it real this time or is muse a going to be left heart broken once more?

lorelai gilmore x luke danes — muse a is a single parent who moved to town around fifteen years ago when their kid was still a baby and trying to keep everything together when they met muse b, a local who has never left the small town and the two begin an unlikely friendship over the next several years. the two couldn't be any more different - muse a is bubbly, warm, and energetic while muse b is grumpy, grounded, and rough around the edges but muse a brings out the softer side in muse b whenever they need something from him. although everyone knows there is something there, neither wanted to risk their friendship until muse b finally made the first move.

rory gilmore x dean forrester — muse a has lived a sheltered life and never been in any kind of relationship until muse b enters their life. although this is the first time either of them has been with somebody, they instantly connect and things just come easily. that is until muse b says 'i love you' to muse a who doesn't know how to respond and things begin to feel real. will they be able to navigate things or will this young love be doomed?

rory gilmore x jess mariano — muse a has always been seen as the sweetheart of the town they've lived in their entire life who has never gotten into trouble until they met muse b, someone mysterious and quiet who randomly showed up in town one day. although the two come from completely different worlds, an unlikely bond forms and they realize they have far more in common than they ever expected. even if nobody in towns understands either one of them, muse b has so much baggage they don't know how to manage and muse a isn't entirely sure how they can help.

rory gilmore x logan huntzberger — muse a is as straight laced as they come, they do everything they're supposed to and never try to take a risk. that is until muse b enters their life, who is from one of the wealthiest families in the country and the arrogance to come with it. muse b has no concern for rules or consequences and slowly brings muse a out of their shell and to try and have fun for once in their life. muse a can't help but fall for them but is this all just a game to muse b?

rory gilmore x tristan dugray — muse a has just started their first year at an ivy league college and slowly being sucked into the gaudy world of those who come from old money, like muse b. at first neither can stand one another and muse a wants nothing to do with muse b who seems to be in most of their classes and the two are constantly running into each other on campus. it isn't until muse a sees muse b in a vulnerable state that they can even begin to see muse b in a different light. is it all just pent up frustration or do opposites really attract?

[kimwexlers-brownhair]

what are your thoughts on Gilmore girls so far?

I'm on season 3, so my thoughts may change, but so far I really love it, for the most part.

I'm fascinated by Rory. I'd very much like to study her under glass. I know a lot of people say the later seasons absolutely ruin Rory's character, and of course I'll have to wait for said seasons to say for sure, but I think there've been plenty of hints so far that she's got a darker side. The way she talked to Shane in the hair dye shop? Atrocious.

I mean, I don't really blame her at this point in the show. She's very young. Lorelai obviously overcorrected her parents' mistakes by making Rory her prococious other half and she along with her grandparents and the rest of Stars Hollow treat her like the preciousest princess ever. It's impossible for that not to warp a kid's mind.

I have the advantage of being older than most of my generation was when they first watched, so I can afford to be more objective. I told two friends my age who were huge fans back in the day that I was finally watching it and they both said they were "total Rorys". And I was like...no you weren't! I knew one of you back then, and you may be as smart as Rory, but you definitely were more of a Type A Paris! And that's great, because Paris is the greatest! But it's inevitable if you were a teenager in 2000 watching Gilmore Girls you'd imprint hard on Rory no matter what you were really like. You're meant to.

(I was a Lane who aged into a Luke)

But I do think the writers were slowly building to how unprepared all this adulation and idolizing made Rory for the real world. She may be incredibly smart, but there is no way she becomes the next Christiane Amanpour. When she sits like a bump on a log next to Paris when they're both supposed to be interviewing the college admissions people? Paris has the guts for that kind of life, but not Rory. That girl has zero guts. She'd make a kickass librarian, though. Some place like Library of Congress would be perfect for her, since I'm sure there are a lot of opportunities to help journalists in their research, which she'd be totally boss at. But charging into war zones and being, dare I say it, pushy sometimes and aggressive in not a passive way? Nah.

Not to be all Logan Roy about it, but she's just not built for it. And that's okay! Neither am I! And that's why I do work at a library! But of course, Rory is meant for GrEaTeR ThInGs.

I am very empathetic to Lorelai -- for anyone who says she acts like a spoiled brat to her parents, may I remind you of that time Richard blamed her for Christopher marrying someone else because she didn't marry him at *sixteen?* Fuck her parents, she's always laying down reasonable boundaries and trying to be the bigger person (okay, maybe not ALWAYS, but still) -- anyway, I'm empathetic to her, but she has put a whole different kind of pressure and set of expectations on Rory than her parents put on her.

"We're best friends first and mother and daughter second." Well, that's a big magenta flag if not outright red. I still give her a lot of leeway because of having Rory so young and the fact she herself never got to grow up normally. But it doesn't do Rory any favors.

And don't get me started on the Rory-Dean-Jess triangle. It's another example of how I'm older (and possibly more aromantic) than the target demographic. I just don't give any kind of shit about it other than the fact the storyline reveals more of Rory's self-centered streak. However, I'm just way more interested in the intergenerational tension between Lorelai and her parents, the Chilton plotlines, and the Stars Hollow eccentrics (Kirk my beloved!).

That, and obviously Paris is Rory's soulmate for better or for worse, so all this nonsense is just a waste of time.

To sum up, things I love about the show: it's addictive, for one thing, and it also manages to tell complex stories with multifaceted characters while still feeling very pleasant and easy to watch. Michel, Lane, Sookie, Miss Patty, Taylor, Babette, and above all my darling Kirk are all vastly underrated. Luke has his psychopathic moments, but I can't help relating. Emily and Richard are the worst, but the best at being entertaining so I give them a pass. Paris is all. I'm a big fan of this show overall.

Things I don't love: The Not-Like-Other-Girlsness of Lorelai and Rory, and -- I know I'm going to get stoned for this -- I find the Lorelai/Rory banter pretty goddamn tiresome. Neither of them are as funny as they think they are, and it's another example of how they both share the same Main Character Syndrome (yeah, sure, they are technically the main characters in the Doylist sense, but from a Watsonian standpoint they just steamroll every room they enter).

But my most important takeaway is that we fatphobes in the early '00s weren't willing to accept how gorgeous, cute, and sexy Melissa McCarthy was as Sookie. Those big blue eyes with that red hair? Those dimples? Lucky guy, Jackson.

[piperslovebot]

By the way, the show was so inconsistent when it came to Christopher! (And a lot of other things too) So one episode they'll make it seem like they haven't heard from him for a couple of months, and the very next episode they'll mention that Christopher calls every single week at the same time. One episode they'll make it seem like Christopher abandoned Rory, only to state an episode or two later that Lorelai TOLD Chris to stay away because she preferred to raise Rory on her own. Anyway, people exaggerate how awful Chris was, pretend Luke and Jess weren't flawed when they both have serious anger/mood issues and communicate worse than any characters on earth, and vilify Logan way beyond what he deserves because he was born into a wealthy family. While I'm venting UOs about Gilmore Girls, Lorelai had far more chemistry, compatibility and connection with Chris than she did with Luke, and she was far happier around him! Lorelai and Luke are horribly incompatible tbh!

Chris has his flaws but honestly I don't hate him? Like I was watching a scene with him and Logan bonding at his place and it was fun seeing them play off each other. As for the inconsistencies, it's just so bad. Like even though Dean was the one who always broke it off with Rory, Lorelai says that Rory dumped him.

I'm a Lorelai x Independent truther, but her and Chris were cute together! Like that scene where she called him about her engagement and he was supportive! Unlike a certain resident grump. @sulietsexual has a great meta about this pairing, which gave a new appreciation for them. Here it is.