#jeigan archetype

[randomnameless]

I know you're not the one that compared Unicorn Overlord to Fire Emblem, but I have to say as an experienced S-RPG fan, I have to say that comparison isn't accurate.

Unicorn overlord isn't based off Fire Emblem, its based off the OGRE BATTLE series down to the same gameplay and such. You can look up Ogre Battle on your own.

And yes, there are in-fact ogres in the game, but they're extremely rare and powerful, being more like Oni/Demons than what most people would consider an ogre. The creators were also massive QUEEN fans, as in the band QUEEN with Freddy Mercury.

FWIW,

I might have noted similar plot beats between the two (and how plot threads aren't dropped unlike what happened in FE16) - gameplay is radically different and how the plot progresses too ! - but to straight it up say this game is a better "FE" than FE17 it's just... ridiculous, for the gameplay reasons you mentionned (even if FE's gameplay always evolved from one verse to another).

The Swordmaster's Meteor Strike and Berenice (or the F!Landsknetch)'s animation for Bastard Cross, aka throwing her shield up, slashing and recovering it afterwards really reminded me of FE animations though, like the Astra skill and, for the Bastard Cross shield tossing, the GBAFE Heroes (Raven and Harken?) throwing their shields during their critical animations!

But bar those superficial comparisons (blue lord has to retake his kingdom and can rely on the help of his childhood friends and his parent's trusted old retainer + must recruit allies to be strong enough to defeat the big bad emperor and the evil sorcerer who manipulated everything behind everyone's backs) the game is, as you said, not a FE game.

I suppose the ones arguing vehemently otherwise are just looking for another reason to throw their "Fodlan GoOd Engage BaD" nonsense around.

[dirtyoldmanhole]

honestly think half the reason i went so feral over gunter is i genuinely think there is not a single dead dove trope you couldn't ply on him that isn't already outright implied by canon :')

[eat-a-dicker]

i don't think i am obsessed with any FE character but overcentralizing meta can be a nightmare to navigate, especially if your fave is known for not being a good unit to use

[vilkalizer]

Ah yes, Fire Emblem archetypes. The Camus... the Jeigan... the Horribly Traumatized Person Astounded To Find Some Human Warmth In Their Life...

[yourwindgodgirl]

The Problem of the Oifey Archetype

Oifeys are commonly held by the Fire Emblem fandom to be a sub-archetype of Jeigans. Like Jeigans, they are strong in the early game, but they remain useful throughout the entire game. They usually start with significant base stats and have average or good growths. These growths allow Oifeys to stay relevant throughout the entire game. Other notable Oifeys include FE7 Marcus and Titania. However, the archetype should not be applied to Oifey himself, as Oifey is not a useful long term unit in FE4.

Very long post ahead:

At first glance, Oifey seems like a good unit.

His bases are quite solid. Most notable is his high HP and Defense, making Oifey very bulky. He has Pursuit/Follow Up, the best skill in the game. Critical is not very useful. A rank in swords means he can use any sword that isn’t holy. He will be the strongest unit in pure stats in chapter 6 and probably for most of chapter 7. Oifey’s starting inventory is the worst thing about him. The Armorslayer in FE4 has the same might as the Iron Sword, but has more weight and less hit. This means Oifey can actually fail at one rounding enemies in chapter 6. The Javelin is not much better. Despite having 12 mt, the Javelin has 18 weight. FE3 and FE4 Javelins were designed to be very heavy as to make it almost impossible to double with them. He also has a horse, which makes him way more likely to see combat than the foot units.

Looking at his growths, they are passable for the era of old Fire Emblem, especially for a prepromote. His total growths add up to 305%. Another thing to consider is that promoting does not give an experience debuff to units if they kill unpromoted units. That mechanic started in FE5. However, let’s compare him to other units.

Here is Exhibit A: Beowulf!Diarmuid, perhaps the “canon” father for him, making this the most popular Diarmuid. Compared to Oifey, Diarmuid is similar as he is a mounted sword user, joining at the same time as Oifey. Diarmuid has double the Strength growth and more Speed, HP, and Defense, putting him at 377%. Finn!Diarmuid has comparable growths. However, it would be stupid to compare growths for Oifey, who is expected to have less significant growths by virtue of being a prepromote. What is more important is Diarmuid’s skills. Regardless of his father, he has Charm, which is useful for a frontline unit. Beowulf!Diarmuid has Accost/Charge, which allows him to kill more frequently than Oifey due to continuing the battle. Finn!Diarmuid has Miracle/Prayer, which is less useful but makes up for his lower base HP compared to Oifey. Another very important thing is that Beowulf!Diarmuid will likely inherit good swords, such as Beowulf’s starting Steel Sword, which has 10 Might for 4 Weight, much better than Oifey’s Armorslayer. Most importantly, Diarmuid will receive a significant +6 promotion bonus to his Speed, which synergizes well with Pursuit and Charge, and a new skill he gains upon promotion, Adept. According to Beowulf!Diarmuid’s average stats as a level 1 Ranger, he will have about a 38% chance to to activate Adept when using the Steel Sword, allowing him to spit out many attacks when combined with his other skills, which, combined to his very high Strength growth, will make him compare so much more favorably to Oifey.

Exhibit B: Ares, who promotes into the same class as Oifey. Joining a little later, Ares has almost as good bases as Oifey, being only a couple points away from him in important areas. His skills are great, even if Vantage is questionable, and he can use any sword. Extremely important is his holy weapon, Mystletainn. Mystletainn is extremely powerful at 30 might and only 5 weight. It is possible for him to double with it, but...

...His speed growth isn’t great (despite a good base Speed), so he wont double every single enemy. However, his HP and Strength growths are, and Mystletainn’s +20 Skill fixes his low Skill growth. It is no wonder that players commonly cite Ares as one of the best units in the game.

You may believe that I am being unfair to Oifey, comparing him to someone who has a holy weapon. However, Oifey’s lack of holy weapon is the reason why he is not useful in the late game. The holy weapons allow units to mow down the enemy army. Those who do not have holy weapons have to make up for it with other good weapons, such as the Brave Sword/Lance, but who would ever give Oifey a Brave weapon? Ares would love to have his hands on the Brave Sword (not that he needs it) to make up for his low late game speed. He would tear through the enemies with it due to his very high Strength and it would even make his Vantage useful. He makes a much better candidate for it than Oifey.

Going back to Diarmuid, the flurry of attacks he usually has would be magnified even more if he had the Brave Sword. Diarmuid with the Brave Sword would probably one round almost every unit due to his high Strength growth. Other good users would be Seliph, who is traditionally given the Brave Sword so he can promote as fast as possible, and the meme option of Larcei, which would maximize her chances of activating Astra for a guaranteed kill.

As for the Brave Lance, many players like to keep it on Finn between generations, which makes the stress of chapter 7 less significant as he can fight more effectively for Leif and Nanna (these units join in the middle of the enemy army and the rest of the player’s army is far away from them for a few turns). Afterwards, the Brave Lance is much better on Fee, who can fly and ignore terrain, which already makes her far superior to Oifey. Leywn!Fee has great skills, so she mostly only has a Strength issue, which is fixed by the Brave Lance. Even if the player does not have Finn keep the Brave Lance at the end of chapter 5, it’s not like Oifey can make use of it before chapter 7, where Finn joins, as there is no trading in FE4. In fact, the only potential user of the Brave Lance in chapter 6 would be Fee, further cementing how useful it is on her.

Let me make it clear: the Brave Sword and Brave Lance would make pretty much any unit good, including Oifey. However, units such as Diarmuid, Finn, and Fee utilize the Brave weapons so much more effectively that it is a much better idea to give it to them. As such, the only weapons that would turn Oifey into a relevant late game unit are not normally available to him, which makes him fall off. This is contrary to the archetype that is named after him, which supposedly does not fall off.

Debatably, Oifey also doesn’t even fulfill the traditional Jeigan role reliably. Traditionally, Jeigans are supposed to weaken the enemy and allow early game units to take kills. Oifey’s critical skill will interfere with this, as players will often try to set up kills with Oifey only for him to crit the enemy. This isn’t a real problem, because killing enemies is never bad, but puts his archetype into question nonetheless.

A better example of what people want in an Oifey would be Raffin from Tear Ring Saga.

(Yes this is a prepromote, and yes these are actually good growths in TRS. If you think these numbers are bad, you do NOT want to see the other units from this game. )

Raffin starts as the strongest unit in the early game, technically joining in chapter 2. He has the ability to either take kills or set up kills (assisted by his Canto skill) for others. Since he gains skills throughout the game, he stays more relevant than Oifey does. However, Raffin’s best aspect is that he promotes into a FLYER. Despite being totally outclassed in stats to the Paragon/Elite units such as Narron and Esther, Raffin gains so much usability due to his flight. Additionally, the issue of relative power is less pronounced in TRS than FE4 because TRS has multiple route splits where the player must divide their army in two, allowing Raffin (and other less than exceptional units) to shine. Raffin also performs well against bosses.

Marcus in FE7 is also a great example of what people mean when they talk about Oifeys. Marcus is so strong that he can double enemies at base stats in Hector Hard Mode end game. Seth from FE8, however, is the ultimate example of an Oifey. He starts strong and becomes insanely strong. Perhaps, with Cormag, he is one of the best units in the game. Even those not very skilled in Fire Emblem can solo the game with Seth.

I’m focusing on endgame for a reason. Raffin, Marcus, and Seth are all good at fighting enemies in the endgame, and can even take on bosses. Oifey does fine against normal enemies, but absolutely gets destroyed by end game bosses.

Arvis has 40 defense. The only people who are punching through that are Seliph, Ares, and Sety. Oh, and he does 70 damage. So the only people who are going to survive are Seliph, Ares, and Sety.

At least Oifey can double him due to his 20 weight Helswath?

Kinda like a fragile Arvis except with 30 AS.

No.

Yes, this is all unfair. Despite my earlier extolling of them, not even Diarmuid or Fee would fare well against most of the endgame bosses. But that’s the point. FE4 is unfair to anyone who doesn’t use a holy weapon. Relative to the other units in FE4, such as Seliph, Ares, Sety, and Altenna, Oifey doesn’t compare at all, and compared to useful non-holy weapon users, such as Diarmuid, Fee, Leif, and even Lester, Oifey leaves much to be desired. On the other hand, Raffin, Marcus, and Seth compare very well with the other units in their games, and they are able to take on endgame bosses. Oifey cannot be described as a unit that stays good throughout the game in the context of FE4. He is a unit that falls off like any normal Jeigan. I suspect that the people who classify Oifey as an Oifey are those who have not played FE4. The archetype would be better if it was named after Raffin or Seth.

[lumeha]

Still thinking that the biggest twist in the FE formula from Three Houses is the fact that you don't have a Jeigan archetype

Jeralt stealing your xp as an ally is more of a Pent move (yes Pent I am still vaguely full of salt from a certain chapter in a desert)

[annathetrickster]

I just thought about it but one potentially salt free gauntlet I would love to see is a Jeigan archetype gauntlet. But I don't think we have enough of those in FEH right now (I need older Oifaye !). Still. I think it would be cool and allow for good diversity of games !

its a good idea but i think frederick would slaughter the competition. he’s technically the jagen archetype except actually handsome and not an old guy.

even if it was a ‘who knows more about their lord’ competition, frederick would be beyond prepared.

[darkflierliesel]

which fire emblem archetype are you? personally i’m a jeigan bc i did very well early on but now am p much useless,

[i-want-to-be-manhandled]

30 Day Fire Emblem Challenge

Yo I didn’t make this (I found it on some Facebook RP pages from 2011 while looking for fanart of my favorites from the older games) but I’m doing it and re-posting the prompts here for myself and anyone who wants to join me in bringing this back from the dead

Day 1 - How did you find Fire Emblem? 

Day 2 - Favorite Pairing 

Day 3 - What incarnation of the Fire Emblem is your favorite, and what would you do with it? 

Day 4 - Favorite Character 

Day 5 - Favorite Lord 

Day 6 - How many FE’s do you have / have you played? 

Day 7 - Favorite Game in the Series 

Day 8 - Hardest Last Boss Battle 

Day 9 - Least Favorite Level 

Day 10 - Something you want to change in any of the games 

Day 11 - Favorite Level 

Day 12 - Favorite Class 

Day 13 - Which character do you relate with the most, and why? 

Day 14 - Best designed character or artwork 

Day 15 - Favorite Villain 

Day 16 - Least Favorite Character 

Day 17 - Which stat is your favorite? 

Day 18 - Best Storyline 

Day 19 - Favorite Weapon 

Day 20 - Prettiest Cutscene 

Day 21 - Which Country would You Live In? 

Day 22 - Something Silly 

Day 23 - Something Epic 

Day 24 - Favorite Sacred Weapon 

Day 25 - Favorite archetype. (Jeigan, Nabarl, Ougma, Cain/Abel…) 

Day 26 - Scene/Moment that made you go ‘awww’ 

Day 27 - Scene/Moment that made you go ‘RAEGQUIT’ 

Day 28 - What should the next FE be like, if you designed it? 

Day 29 - Favorite OST/Song/Remix 

Day 30 - Why Do YOU Love Fire Emblem

[a-shrieking-cloud-of-bats]

I like how fire emblem has these character archetypes named after older characters in the series, but like there’s sub archetypes also named after other characters so like a jeigan is a character that starts at a high level (usually an advanced class) but has terrible stat growths so he’s sorta a crutch and if you use him a lot you’ll be behind ultimately but there’s some variation of a jeigan called a seth I think that’s the same thing but the stat growths are merely average so he’s actually a solid unit if you train him up so like this ultimately leads to a weird collection of terms that you have no context for unless you’ve played the entire series and memorized their stat growths admittedly I can’t think of a better idea so

[slanax]

I’d like to propose a new subset of the Jeigan archetype

The Gunter archetype: A prepromote that joins really early, has barely any growths and gets no EXP. Basically the same as the True Jeigan except for the “strong early on” part.

[dirtyoldmanhole]

gunter is a stone cold freak, and in this essay, i shall-- [dragged offstage kicking and screaming]

[dirtyoldmanhole]

today in "krad continues to be very normal about gunter fire emblem" i hyper-analyze 3H's teatime preferences to divine up gunter's favorite teas and a few other fun facts ~ :D

so, context:

in Three Houses (FE16), there's a teatime minigame where your avatar drinks tea with selected characters, and try to guess their favorites / favorite conversational topics / etc for bonding points. FE's pretty big on character archetypes across the games (nabarls, jeigans, etc); while it's never a 1:1 as the series does like to subvert the stories and character arcs in some fun ways, you can generally trace a pretty direct line across them a la 'wow innes and shinon sure share more than a few surface-level similarities' and 'man OG!Jeigan, Gunter, and Marcus are cut out of the same cloth at least appearance wise huh'.

tl;dr -- it's easier than you'd think to pick a few 3H characters that echo gunter's archetype/arcs.

since i've played through 3H a few times, the three characters i figured gunter would share at least a higher-than-background-average similarity in archetypes + taste were:

Hubert - loyal advisor that does the dirty work behind the scenes in black to a charismatic royal. definitely holds a not-entirely platonic flame for said princess who had a Fucked Up past. has a tendency to be the disciplinarian for the others. (also both characters are hellaciously kinky bastards but that's just me)

Jeritza - strict instructor turned surprise(!) villain yandere paladin with a more complex backstory than you'd think. even has the black armor in his alter ego, and dislikes talking to others / prefers being alone. (seriously does that sound familiar or what.)

Hanneman - older (ie, definitely over his sixties versus all of the other babies in age) classic jeigan archetype and another instructor, kind but keeps to himself as well.

I could see people debating Hanneman vs Gilbert on technicalities but whatever, this is my post, I'm sticking to this list. :P

so, next step! looking at serenesforest.net's teatime preferences chart, we find out the favorite teas of the previous characters are (common teas in bold) ...

Hubert - Dagda Fruit Blend, Cinnamon Blend

Jeritza - Albinean Berry Blend, Southern Fruit Blend, Honeyed-Fruit Blend, Sweet-Apple Blend

Hanneman - Bergamot, Sweet-Apple Blend, Honeyed-Fruit Blend, Cinnamon Blend

... and surprisingly, there was a very high level of crossover! :o holy shit i was kind of not expecting that lmao. I checked a few of the other characters just to make sure it wasn't the same 5 teas over and over again, and no, these were pretty rare. that to me, reinforces that hunch that says looking into these patterns was worth it.

therefore, it is in my very humble opinion that (in 3H's style), Gunter's favorite teas would be generally the fruitier-sweet flavored ones, plus cinnamon.

subjectively?

fucking hell i love this so much. omg.

it makes so much sense in hindsight; i mentioned before how FE has a lot of fun playing with the archetypes/subversions, and there's something kind of hilariously adorable about the old strict "traditional" masculine dude fucking loving his fruity teas :D;;

gunter's already (ime) an interesting case of wildly subverting his archetype expectations so this is just yet another fun super-stealth easter egg nod.

to that note---you know what that reminds me of? this meme (below) of the bodyguard and the chick swapping drinks so he can have the fruity one and she can have the beer. :D

...

absolutely hilarious fun bonus fact in hindsight:

i almost had this as a scene in the gunter x fcorrin slowburn fic a while back, (yes, seriously, even before this post) but it ultimately got cut out for being ever so slightly gimmicky/meme-y in tone versus the rest of the fic which is played more seriously.

... this would make for an A+ drawing shitpost or a standalone fic tho. :D

no i'm not secretly smug af my instincts were on fireeeee why r u asking lolololol

/fin!

[dirtyoldmanhole]

so i've been low key pondering over what is it about gunter that twigged my 'dude, you are a freak nasty kinky fuck (solidarity 🤝)' radar from day one.

ergo, have an old school ~*krad does a character analysis essay*~

under the cut for kink talk and also sheer length !

introduction

why would I want to lead into this reading?

gunter is honestly, to me, an extremely cool subversion of his own FE archetypes on top of (imo) what types of characters are "allowed" to be kinky. a good chunk of FE characters, particularly jeigan archetypes tend to be one note about their devotion to their lords and/or country, and a little stuffy/uptight. when they do have a personality, they still tend to be pretty "safe" nurturing caretaker type of archetypes (eg, titania, and i say that loving her as a character).

of course, nothing wrong with liking said archetype; my tastes just happen to run differently.

gunter is explicitly both those things (could be read as uptight and a caretaker) and still, fascinatingly -- has his darker sides. you don't have a whole-ass ingame cgi and arc of going ham as the possessed yandere villain with a pretty consistent sexual undertone and still keep a ~purely wholesome~ reputation.

so what's the in-game canonical nods that started pinging the radar?

point one: i'm still not over the whip reference in his corrin supports

the tl;dr of his fcorrin C-A support is they pick up an old game of theirs since her northern fortress years -- playing catch with an old leather ball. it isn't until the A support that you hear gunter made the ball from a whip that garon handed to him to whip corrin as discipline.

this assumes several things: (1) gunter knows his way around whips (2) to the point of most likely whipping somebody in discipline before, otherwise why would garon be so convinced he'd follow through? and then

(3) nintendo why the fuck would you add something like this if you didn't intend on us reading some kind of vibe here LMAO. the fact that treehouse kept this line while "sanitizing" most other deeply horny fates scripts makes me inclined to think they knew they'd be breaking gunter's entire characterization if they'd tried to bowderize it, or they just didn't give a shit, thinking that they could probably get away with it since he's not niles-popular. (both can be true).

while it doesn't mean everyone with a passing interests in leather and whips is automatically some flavor of kinkster. just. speaking from IRL experience, the crossover between the groups is also a wee bit higher than the background population. either they tend to be a younger man looking to be "badass" like indiana jones, or their job involves some flavor of implement or ... yeah.

point two: mcorrin/fcorrin script differences & gunter harboring feelings for fcorrin (always has been.jpg)

additional script differences cost money. companies like nintendo hate spending money especially when there's a finite budget, and doubly so for non-popular characters.

so ime, when there's a clear difference between scripts in a non-obvious spot, and it's there in both the JP/EN versions like gunter's final revelation talk with mcorrin and fcorrin, i pay attention. that's nintendo more often than not underlining something and saying "hey, this matters to characterization".

cue this bit after you bring gunter back from the brink of being possessed and talking some sense into him:

Corrin: Whatever your motivations, you stayed by my side and helped me. Your intentions may have been dark, but you were still good to me. (If Corrin is male) Corrin: And that's what you'll always be—my friend. (If Corrin is female) Corrin: You'll always be important to me. Gunter: But, I... I killed Scarlet... Corrin: I know, but you were under the control of Anankos. You weren't you. If you truly wish to atone for what you've done, you must live. Live for Scarlet's sake. Live for the family that was taken from you. I need you to help me fight Anankos. To protect all the people he could still hurt. (If Corrin is male) Corrin: Let's go. Our final battle awaits. (If Corrin is female) Gunter: ... Corrin: Let's go. Our final battle awaits.

now obviously, with a literal "dot dot dot" line, you by definition have to read into the sentiment. one could just as easily argue that here....

.....

nope, i got nothing, lol. m!corrin gets a very pointed "you're my friend" line, and if nintendo wanted to dissuade from the romantic/sexual subtext, they could have awkwardly tried to stick to their more neutral "you're my mentor/father figure/etc" guns which read way more platonic, especially if you kept it the same for both.

that script change is only for f!corrin, and gunter has a few other script mentions where f!corrin gets something extra from him. this combined with f!corrin's particularly sexual-subtext-ladened support chain with the whip-ball (versus m!corrin's pretty platonic "feed the poor kid") vibe hints that he's always held a flame for f!corrin, which leads into asking some pretty interesting questions about his tastes.

it's some kinda vibes all right!

imma also be honest: (possessed!)gunter gets a little sexually subtextual in general. there's other revelation quotes like this during the confrontation --

Gunter: I would tear every last bit of innocence away from you.

(dude) (wow)

-- and the gothic horror camera angle/framing of certian scenes with him alone with corrin, most pointedly when corrin's alone with him, anankaos channels himself through gunter, the screen goes white, and corrin wakes up with him leaning right over her, practically on top of her. all of these add up to one hell of a sexual subtext in the last three chapters.

i could break this down further into shot by shot visual analysis since that's my field as a design manager, but this essay's long as is (and I'll cover this in the current revelation liveblog anyway).

point three: there's a suspicious amount of nohrian characters that have explicit kinks

there's xander with his JP crossdressing supports. niles with his ... nearly everything in his quotes, bless him. and camilia too on the ladies side what with her sadisim and S/M behavior, more blatant in the JP script side which is (ime) the more faithful one.

I'm probably missing an example here (garon also felt weirdly sexual for a FE dad/final boss, somewhat usually lampshaded in the comments of the 'azura dances for him' cgi movie), and that's not even mentioning the faceless which -- i don't know about you, but i've seen actual folsom BDSM gear less kinky than that enemy design.

clearly: nintendo's not exactly afraid to lay some sexual subtext with nohrian characters. hoshidos generally don't get this treatment, this often.

is it likely part and parcel of how they intended to "villain code" nohrian characters, since adding kinks to an antagonistic faction has a long history in media to make them feel more "othered" and dangerous? most likely!

regardless, i absolutely get why they'd layer in that vibe with gunter especially in revelation's route when he's one of the final bosses. adding an edge of sexual menace is an easy if cheap way to butter on that foreshadowing, and it separates him from the "nice(r) guy gunter" in the conquest married route.

sort of.

to which ...

point four: there is no polite way to get around the incesty caretaker daddy vibe in their married route so imma just say it lmao

[ just gestures wildly at his A-S support chain with fcorrin ]

somebody who is completely vanilla is not uhhh, going to have that love conversation/confession right after a literal 'father figure' mention :'D

people are entitled to their own tastes, and while i'm the type to bounce in when people bounce out "because it got too creepy", i do think it's pretty telling that there's a hell of a lot of people that got twigged out of their support and don't generally pursue it unless if they're completion fanatics. even if I'm reading way the hell into this -- they're responding to something, that's for darn sure.

one more thing to point out with the supports --

Gunter: And since you missed, you must answer a question I have for you. Corrin: All right, ask away. Gunter: Is there anyone in camp that you have particularly strong feelings for? Corrin: Wh-what? Why would you ask that? Gunter: Ah, I'm the one who is asking questions.

by itself, that last line could read fairly platonically. but with everything else.... whew. this is a man who's very aware of power dynamics. speaking of --

point five: just trust me bro

call it uhhhh prurient interest, but there has been quite a few times when i've nailed a (IRL) person's interest in kink by that version of a gaydar :P just a little too many times for it to be coincidence.

if you're asking me, the tell-tale hints are usually :

(a) a hyper-awareness of power dynamics compared to normies,

and

(b) hints of adjacent interest/sub-cultural aesthetics. (eg, goth and alt-fashion, common kink implements that can be hidden in plain sight like handcuffs, whips, boots, leather as a fashion).

and obviously we're talking about a fictional character which changes the conversation (characters being built from the ground up to serve a plot. rather than a fleshed out autonomous human being with their own set of preferences that can change over time), but listen, mate -- if my kink radar was a geiger counter, gunter here lit up like fucking chernobyl. :P

all I have to do is point at the whip bit to (5b), and regarding point (5a) ... well. you know the interesting thing about kinksters is that in addition to power dynamics, some of them have a particular thing about titles?

you know who else has a whole very specific thing about titles?

in conclusion

now, all that said, could it be wish fulfillment? absolutely. and it does need to be said -- i dig the character a lot for many other reasons! but i'm focusing on this kink angle in this essay as frankly, it's not a popular topic to talk about in fandom, and it's a fascinating itch to scratch at.

there's the sense in wider media these days that anyone over the age of 40-50 isn't allowed to have a sex life much less something as edgy as kinks unless if they're a complete monster, which is both as untrue as it is unfair. shame never helped anyone -- and i've always been partial to my messy favorite characters who never apologized for what they were. once a villainfucker, always a villainfucker.

either way, there are distinctly too many coincidences for me to write him as anything but, and I'm having fun in this sandbox ~

thanks for reading!

[dirtyoldmanhole]

one of the (many) things that makes me go absolutely feral over gunter/corrin is how hot it melds the twin themes of what you and the other characters "assume" of them versus the absolutely loaded kinky desire underneath.

you've got both of their archetypes that on the surface you'd expect (in FE-language, even) to be squeaky clean. innocent princess + jeigan/knight set out to pasture. even squeakier clean given the, lol, caretaker/let's be real: parental role.

x-x-xtra squeaky clean when you add in all the little nuances like his age being the oldest of any paired endings, canon typical social pressures of innocence, commoners dissuaded from hitching up with royals, so on.

literal last characters most people would expect to hook up, much less feel any sort of desire for each other.

except hilariously, fates being fates had that one hellacious S-support + the paired ending and had just enough blatant canon weight behind the ship to leave the door open for said romantic/sexual feelings. frankly, i think there's enough deeply sexual subtext to revelation's route alone that would have..... raised questions along with eyebrows.... to put it mildly. but rev combined with the paired ending? yeah no sorry there's something going on there, lol, even if it's private pining that never gets revealed.

that 'canon itself never has their dynamic as entirely platonic' is a sense of tension in the frission that can never get resolved, like any great taboo.

edit: then there's a whole separate tangent about how both princess/knight archetypes are so fuckin sexually repressed by default, rest in fuckin pieces repressed libidos lmao-

tl;dr in my livejournal ship manifesto THIS IS WHY GUNTER/CORRIN IS GENIUS-

[dirtyoldmanhole]

i know this blog is like 90% some combo of horny/shitposting

but man gunter is such a cool character

never thought in a million years i would ever think anyone from the jeigan archetype would be interesting.

(i like titania, she's cool. she's got layers, which is helped by the more ex-knight/mercenary standpoint. but i don't know if i would call her interesting in a sense of 'i am possessed to dissect you as much as i humanely can' ya dig?)

but i distinctly remember even halfway through my first conquest playthrough, even with the 'ha ha joke grandpa hubby' initial mindset i kept seeing like. glimmers of layers and layers of his personality.

and i was constantly 'hold up WHO the hell are you. you are way more fascinating than you're letting on. i need to know everything.'

... and then the whole first rev playthrough was one hell of a payoff to that ask.

i don't think nintendo's ever welded together 'jeigan + final villain-1 + totally has some kind of romantic flame for his mentee + axe to grind with the power structures of the kingdom as a whole' as a character ever before and what the hell. it is such a memorable combo, and they did it so, so well with him.

like i actually think his arc was more or less really well done in the sense of ... he remains utterly, uniquely humanly flawed (his justified rage against garon also being his downfall!), and yet the logic chain makes sense (hating royals, possession), there's also emotional pathos/tragedy (augh the possession mixed with his real affection over corrin) and even humor and tenderness (some of the my room lines! oh my god his support with kana! my heart?!). and all of that plus one hell of an iron will is masked behinds layers of subservient personas so well-held that ime most people never see past the first one or two.

(and yes i'm going to say id stuff in the sense of, damn, the way he's written with power dynamics are written is kind of freaking brilliant. there are very few characters i feel that are written with a nuanced sense of sexuality-blending-with-lived-life as much as this guy ime.)

and his design reflects all of that in the coolest way while respecting the game's aesthetics. he looks appropiately "old guard" nohr. he also looks exactly like you'd expect an old knight mentor would look like. you squint, and then gunter also looks exactly like a villain what with the black/purple/slinky armor/possession touches.

it is literally uhhhh 5? 6? months since i first seriously started poking at him with a stick and every day something new falls out.

mad respect!