#j2's friendship speculation

[laf-outloud]

“No change in their friendship over the years I’ve known them.” So we’re supposed to believe a “CE employee” who knows J2 well enough to have assessed their friendship up close, *for years*, is lurking in anon on Samblr/Jaredblr?

No offense *at all* intended to you/your blog. I just find it hard to believe that someone truly “in the know” about (and supposedly acquainted with!) J2 would be lurking on fan/stan Tumblr and sending anons in defense of their friendship. Like, what would be the point?!

P.S. Based on the diction and tone I could very easily believe your anon is Will/TFW2.0.

Again, I'm not going to summarily dismiss their claims (even though the TFW option is certainly viable), but I also think that anyone working with J2 at the conventions is going to see J2's convention personas. The whole weekend is a job for them and they know they are under scrutiny from everyone, including employees, so they'll fall back into the J2 banter and friendship that they perfected for 15 years even if the outside-of-work relationship has changed.

[laf-outloud]

Are there fewer public events with J2 that people use to define their friendship? Certainly. That's what happens when a show ends and they move on to different roles and paths. Should people use public events to define J2's friendship? No. Like @hologramcowboy has said, we only see what we're being given.

Jensen uses his SM for promoting projects. Jared uses his to connect with his fans and promote projects/worthy causes. They rarely post to each other using SM. For all we know, they could be texting/calling each other daily. The point being, we have no idea of the kind of friendship Jared and Jensen have. (Although they do provide glimpses: We know their kids will be attending the same kindergarten and we know that Jensen waited until Jared was done with the ATX TV festival panel so they could fly to the next convention together.)

Anon is right that friends come and go, but circumstances can't remove the experiences or emotions that person had, or is still having, in your life. I had a best friend years ago that I did everything with, including going on vacations. We were inseparable. Life took us down different roads, and we certainly don't talk as much as we used to, but would I still consider her one of my best friends? Absolutely. When we get together, it's as if no time has passed and we're just as tight as if we'd been spending every day of the last 20 years together. I only hope that everyone can have a friend like that.

I think you really romanticize, for me they are friends, but they are far from being the best friends these days, maybe one day it was but today the evidence shows the opposite, but that's life, friends come and go

By evidence you mean public sightings and events? Those have nothing to do with real life though but yes, I definitely romanticize everything, in general, I love looking at life in an uplifting way and looking for the love in all the different dynamics around me.

[lol-jackles]

I'm speculating here but to me, it looks like some of the recurring cast became resentful towards Jared and Jensen during the last few seasons.

I feel the longer some actors were on the show they saw the leads "having it easy" while they struggled to find jobs. The same with conventions. Feeling that way doesn't make them evil or anything but some couldn't really hide it.

It doesn't apply to everyone, for example, Mark S. has an stable income and A. Calvert looked just grateful for the opportunity.

I have nothing to sustain this except knowing how difficult can be to sustain relationships in the same work environment between people with huge salary gaps. Perhaps even they resent Jared more since he is a bit younger. Or they latch to Jensen waiting for an opportunity.

There’s a common saying that Hollywood is like high school with money.  Except most actors don’t have money.  Money is the leading cause of conflicts in relationships; J2 were earning anywhere between $200K to $300K per episode while recurring actors were earning anywhere from $8K to $50K per episode.  I don’t care how mature you think you are, envy and resentment are going to spring up from time to time.  Think of the worse clique in your school and multiply it by 100 times and that’s how on-set gossips are like.  Add that most actors are not friends because everybody is highly self-motivated.

That said, real friendship can occur among cast members like it did in Fraiser. cast i.e David Hyde Pierce and the late John Mahoney were godfathers to Jane Leeves’ son.  David Lee, one of the producers, was pretty protective of the cast and I think that helped immensly.  Supernatural producers were more interested in keeping the money train going and kept adding or returning side characters in case one of them is a hit with the audience so that SPN can carry on if Jared leaves the show and derail the money train.  So that can cause some recurring actors to have sense of entitlements especially when they were misled by Robert Singer into thinking their roles will have important impact on the show.  Remember when Jim Beaver had to recant that misconception on social media prior to season 9 airing?  Yeah, that was a laugh, well, for me because I thought Beaver would know better.

“Perhaps even they resent Jared more since he is a bit younger.”

19 years old Jessica Alba said the Dark Angel set was uncomfortable for her because “everyone had such strong opinions of” her, meaning cast members made their opinions known to her because nobody likes a wonder kid.  JAred would have experienced some of that too and partly why I think Jared initially latched onto Jensen, which Jensen had no problems with due to his own codependency-ish issue. 

[caswlw]

What exacrly is the J2 fallout theory and is there any actual evidence ( apart from the jackles sexy silence™) supporting it?

the j2 fallout theory is basically this theory that says that over the course of like. the last year and a half (since j2 found out about the ending of the show), there was Some kind of fallout in j2’s friendship- not saying that they’re Enemies or anything just that there was a Change. i personally am behind the idea that they were friends bc they worked together all year but the ending soured things and since they’re not working together anymore, there was some fallout

and the j2 fallout theory has Lots of speculative evidence but i wouldn’t say anything hardcore. however that disclaimer aside here some examples of the compiled evidence to its case:

- move to the mountains (away from house near the p*daleckis on Purpose)

- differing opinions on finale

- overall different ways of approaching their work

- the way j*red was Praised for his lack of energy and jensen was shafted

- the stacey panel j*red going on and on and jensen not really popping up at all- unlike how he usually is with j*red’s “antics”

if ur looking for more i did make a group chat to talk about it haha .. 💀

but i also have a theory about it being a gen and danneel fallout and Not j2 but. that’s another thing

[freakygirlie]

Walker- 1x04 ~spoilers~

I know i’ve said this a dozen times...but Walker just keeps getting better and better and better! With every. single. episode. I loved everything about this episode so much and again! Jared live-tweeting it was the best!!! I watched this episode at 3 am lats night again help.

~spoilers~ last warning!!!

OK SO CRDIREZ BEAUTY EPISODE!!! YES! I loved loved loved loved the development of their friendship in this episode SO MUCH! 

First scene Cordirez and them badass rangers catching bad guys together YES!!! Walker trying to find out Micki’s middle name is so cute pls. 

I really enjoyed the case they worked here as well. It was both deep and emotional and that twist! YEPPPP SIGN ME UP.

THE BAR SCENE WITH WALKER AND MICKI. AGAIN THEIR FRIENDSHIP! The episode title fit so well here and I’m glad Micki and Walker have really reached a good understanding on a friend and partner level. THEY\RE THE CUTEST PLEASE I LOVE THEM. 

‘‘walker where’s my drink’‘ ok every word micki and cordell exchanged with each other was the best??? 

WALKER AND HIS KIDS AND BROTHER UNPACKING TOGETHER!!! I asolutely adore their relatioship. AUGUST IN THAT BLUE HAIR AND SUNGLASSES DHJHHF AUGUST I FUCKING LOVE YOU CAN I ADOPT YOU.

I really adored the tiny exchange between Stella and Walker. Speaks volumes of how much they’ve progressed since the pilot. Walker and Stella’s dynamic I ADORE so seeing them at really good terms is just beautiful.

Annnddd now August is being the rebellious kid. 

I’m glad they brought up Belle’s case here as well bc i thought they’d completely overshadowed it. STELLA AND BELLE ARE SO CUTE! I WANT SO MUCH MORE OF THEM

OK NOW IK I SHIP CORDIREZ TOO BUT I SHIP TRICKI TOO. GOD.

They are so so so CUTE WITH EACH OTHER AND TREY IS JUST THE BEST I LOVE HIMMMM. 

Micki is such an epic artist??? HOLY SHIT GIRL HOW MUCH TALENT DO YOU HAVE HIDDEN IN THERE.

Micki and Walker working the case ‘off the books’! YES PARTNERS IN CRIME. or well soving crime. i didn’t like monty shaw too much anyways...idk bad vibes. WALKER DEFENDING MICKI AND SAYING SHE CAN FEND FOR HERSELF. I COMBUSTED.

THE CORPSE LADY WAS THE SAME ONE FROM SUPERNATURAL’S NIGHTMARE 1X14. HOLY SHIT.

*sigh* The Harlan Family. Classic Rich People.

‘‘can we keep this one off the books’‘ ‘‘OFF THE BOOKS???’‘ ‘‘are you kidding me off the books is my middle name. Just kidding it’s Beauregard what’s yours’‘ HHAHAH NICE TRY WALKER I LAUGHED SO HARD THEY’RE ADORABLE.

Cordell Beauregard Walker- such a fucking handful!

THE INTERROGATION SCENE. WHEN THAT GIRL WINKED AT WALKER AND HE JUST FLINCHED AND TURNED AROUND LMAO. WALKER WHAT HAVENT U HAD PPL HIT ON U BEFORE.

‘‘You got it ranger rick!’‘ PLSJJCDDFJFD. ‘‘that was so satisfying’‘ same micki same.

‘MICHELLE FLORIANA’‘ WOW??? I LOVE IT.

ALSO MUSKRAT! ADORABLE SO ADORABLE I WANT CORDELL TO CALL MICKI MUSKRAT ALL THE DAMN TIME.

‘‘on a scale from micki to muskrat where am i’‘ ‘‘floriana’‘ THAT LOOK THO.  HSHSHSHS DONT WORRY WALKER YOU’LL GET THERE.

-I love how this show is really taking the time to address the difficulties someone like Micki- A Female Latina would go through- the sexism, blatant disrespect and disregard. Micki’s character is also something that’s very well written and acted(Lindsey ily) and portrayed extremely well. One of my favorite things about Walker is how he really trusts Micki, views her as an equal, and wants to earn her trust, not demand it. It’s perfect(cordirez breakdown time). Micki is also slowly letting her fences down around him and it’s a huge and very delightful to see step. I love and adore their friendship and chemistry so much. 

MICKI SPEAKING IN SPANISH IS AN OFFICIAL TURN ON FOR ME BYE.

ALL OF THEM SOLVING THE CASE TOGETHER!!! NOT JUST CORDIREZ BUT TREY TOO! WALKER AND TREY MEETING TOGETHER WHEN.

Trey is such an amazing boyfriend truly! THE TOWEL ON HIS SHOULDERS DJSFDJFD AND AH THE COMIC MICKI DREW??/ ADORABLE. Also love how encouraging and supportive Trey is. The men in this show are the best.

LIAM AND WALKER SCENE. I love their dynamic too and i wanna see moreee. Also more micki and liam scenes yes please.

‘‘thanks brother very supportive’‘ i sobbed when he called him brother. i just. *screams*

Ok so Abby and Bonham really had a bad falling out huh. Abby was in an affair with someone who still misses her??? Damn, can’t wait to see how this one progresses. ALSO WALKER FINDING THAT LETTER FROM GARY TO ABBY IN THE BASEMENT I FREAKEDDD,

THE ADDRESS. ON THE LETTER. IS THE SAME. AS THE LOCATION. OF JENSEN’S BREWERY. THE SAME BREWERY. WHO’S FIRST KEG OF BEER. WAS GIVEN TO JARED. BY JENSEN. ON HIS BIRTHDAY. HELP. HELP. HELP. NOT ME HAVING A J2 BREAKDOWN IN THE MIDST OF A WALKER EP AT 5 AM IN THE MORNING.

Aight so August and Ruby is a biG NO OK. Like idk idk idk just idk.

WALKER HAD AN AFFAIR(after emily so ok but still) WITH SOMEONE ELSE WHILE UNDERCOVER??? WAS IT JUST UNDERCOVER OR REAL??? I NEED ANSWERS STAT.

THE PHONE THAT WALKER HAD. ONE OF THE CONTACTS WAS WINCHESTER AUTO. W I N C H E S T E R  A U T O. Jensen coming to the show owning this shop and Walker going to him to get his car fixed when Jared Padalecki.

MICKI AND CORDELL(AND TREY!) SOLVING THE CASE TOGETHER!!!

‘‘micki gives a play by play of the security footage’‘ ‘‘we’re watching the same thing micki’‘ *bitchface* PLS I LOVE THEM.

Holy shit Mrs. Harlan having an affair with Monty??? ENZO BEING BOB’S SON??? HOT DAMN THE CASE CONTINUES. Again. LOVE THE WORK/FAMILY BALANCE.

OK OK SO THE SCENE IN WHICH MICKI AND WALKER CONFRONT SHAW AND THE LOOKS THEY GIVE EACH OTHER BEFORE MICKI GETS IN THE CAR WITH SHAW WHEN THE MUSIC STARTS PLAYING!!! YES. YES. MY SOULFOOD.

I loved the way they worked it out. Phonecall, recording everything, THEM PARTNERING AND WORKING IT OUT SO BEAUTIFULLY I NEED SO MANY MORE CORDIREZ CENTRIC EPS YALL DONT EVEN KNOW.

‘‘walker! bulldog it!!’‘ HSHJDSHDSJ YES.

PLS I SCREAMED WHEN SHAW PULLED THE GUN ON MICKI.

BUT SHE IS SUCH A FUCKING QUEEN BADASS I LOVE HER.

Success!!!! The Micki and Walker and Larry scene at the end was so cute! I like how they’re actually invested in their jobs and want to do good it’s so heartwarming.

WALKER CALLING TREY TO FIND OUT MICKI’S FAV THINGS!!! I LOVE HIM SO MUCH! Also I genuinely love that Trey wasn’t weirded out by it or jealous or anything.  Can’t wait to see them interact I NEED IT!.

‘‘thanks for believing in me’‘ ‘‘i didnt. i trusted you.’’ HELP STOP MY FEELS.

‘‘thanks beau’‘ don’t mention it flor’‘ I DIED I DIED I DIED. MICKI AND WALKER I LOVE YOU. JKSJD MICKI WARMING UP TO THE MIDDLE NAME. THEIR FRIENDSHIP IS THE BEST.

That last scene with Walker and his mom was so touching. Walker’s relationship with his parents is so sweet. His mom hugging him and comforting him when Walker said he missed emily so much *cries* I just wanna hold him please. 

August being worried for his father’s happiness I JUST. YOU SWEET BOY. I really think messaging Twyla was a baaaaddd move though.

WALKER AND AUGUST SELFIE. The way Walker so easily just picked his son and brought him to him, made him family photographer and that scene. THE BEST. 

I genuinely don’t think anything happened between Twyla and Walker. But we’ll have to see.

oKAY SO. Captain James??? It’s just an on and off thing. Do I trust him? Do i don’t? Why did he take those surveillance vids out??? I trust Liam with it and i’m glad he’s looking into it and all. Hopefully it doesn’t backfire badly. I have a very bad feeling that James had something to do with Emily’s death.

THAT STELLA AND BELLE INTERACTION. SO CUTE. Stella giving that jar of jame to try and make up and Belle being all cute and funny I love them. For a sec i was so scared Belle might yell at her but I’m very happy to see that they’re going strong despite all the circumstances- Belle’s parent’s deportation.

ALSO TREVOR IS SO HOT??? I like him and Stella they’re cute. Stella so obviously has a huge crush on him and they ride horses so well together. HHAHAHAH THAT DANCE STELLA DID WHEN HE FOLLOWED HER ON INSTA. SO RELATABLE.

The last Tricki scene mY HEART. ‘’you wanted a hero so you drew one. then you became one’’ Micki is going to be such an inspiration I love her. And the way they interacted, Trey getting a job!!! And Micki’s excitement, THEIR HUG!!! ‘’hugging is one of my superpowers’’ TREY BARNETT I LOVE YOU.

THAT LAST SCENE WHY LEAVE IT LIKE THIS. WHAT IS HAPPENING WHY DOES WALKER OR DUKE APPARENTLY HAVE TO GO BACK.

Anyways! As you can see the entire episode was so enjoyable and I loved it. The best part of this was definitely the Cordirez friendship development and i cannot wait to see where it goes from here!

Speculation/Thoughts for Episode 5:- So it’s for sure that Walker is going back undercover as Duke who’s a baseball...person? Idk he was wearing a baseball hat so :) Walker’s past is now very much mixed in with his present and I AM SCARED. What he’s doing is yet to be revealed but Tywla is coming back and that will just. mess. things. up. The scene in which Walker is yelling at August GOD SO NOT READY FOR THAT. It feels like him and his kids might go back to how they were before. I really don’t want that to happen. Also why am I expecting a major cliffhanger. 

HEY BUT THERE’S SHIRTLESS WALKER AND! MICKI RIDING THAT MECHANICAL HORSE IN A BAR OR SMTH AND MORE INSIGHT INTO WHAT TREY IS DOING SO IM VERY EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

And it’s going on hiatus. Idk how to deal with that. :(

[snazzyo]

In praise of J2M’s handling of the decision to end Supernatural

Supernatural has always been special.  And the way that they managed the news of the shows ending is another example of the care and skill they bring to the Supernatural experience.  This decision could have rolled out in so many different ways or different times that would have been much more devastating. But it’s clear from start to finish, the boys deftly managed this announcement in expert fashion.  Long ass post - skim the bold for the gist.  

Ways that showed careful attention to managing o this decision:

They unambiguously ending it versus the CW or the WB.   This is a victory for the show, for fandom, and for the boys.  And J2M didn’t just randomly make a decision. At some point this past year, they started to believe it was time to end.  But in order to make it a #SPNFamily choice they had to have some things fall in place and they had to time when they let people know in order for this to be a ‘choice’ rather than ‘cancellation’. Specifically:

They had to be renewed.  And renewed for 20 episodes.  This means the CW was prepared to continue at the ratings level they had achieved.  Once that happened, then J2M could take over the narrative.  Timing: renewal followed the traditional timeline of late January - which would give TPTB enough time to rewrite the last 4 episodes into a series finale if they needed to.  This has been a consistent pattern since S4.  The last time they totally flew off the cliff without a net was S3 (bless them!).  

They needed to time when they told Dabb & Singer. I’m pretty sure they told Andrew around the 31st of January - when CW made the renewal announcement. Some have made a case that this decision happened earlier and Andrew’s absence on Nov 16th (300th party) was related to him hearing S15 was ‘the end’ news.   BUT I'm thinking they did not share - or maybe hadn't even cemented the idea yet.  First, it would really dampen the mood.  Second, they wanted renewal.  Any hint of hanging it up at that party would have been hard to keep quiet. Too much press.  Too much alcohol.  So, I can't totally get on board with a final decision at that point.  Even if the boys were seriously talking about the remotely sad -- so they weren’t certain they were going to end at that time. These guys are good actors but not robots.  I think it would have shown.  BUT Andrew had to know how to shape the last 4 episodes of S14 (again end of January).  Which means the boys would have provided him the information that they were going to wrap in S15 and he should target the last 24 episodes as supporting that eventuality about that time.  

Either the CW was prepared to let the boys decide on duration or they waited til relatively the last minute so that the CW didn't restructure a shorter season.  I'm torn on this one.  Pedowitz has been respectful of the boys BUT there's definite bad blood on not picking up Wayward Sisters -- and the fan backlash. If Pedowitz did know early enough to weigh in on duration, he only did it for the boys.  Not the CW and not the fans.  He was visibly pissed at the fans backlash on Wayward Sisters.  And I'm 100% certain that him sticking the knife in the back of any other spin-off (which he did last fall by saying Supernatural is just the boys and he doesn't see another spin-off) is because Warner Brothers financial deal was not what he wanted.  Never underestimate the grudges that develop after failed negotiations (which is what the Wayward Sisters was -- it was all about the money).  So, I'm inclined to believe that Pedowitz knew before the announcement but not as quickly as Dabb and Singer did. The boys were more likely to hedge their bet here. THEY controlled the narrative by how they informed key players.

  They strategically timed the public announcement - literally the DAY of the wrap party. This accomplishes two important things for the crew. 

One, the crew WILL get new jobs but this gives them a full year to line up something new.  Some will jump early, some will jump no later than pilot season.  Others will go sporadically based on their intent. The point is that they have a rich portfolio to show and time to show it off to prospective bosses. 

Second, they gave the cast and crew to have one big happy cry-off/celebration.  The boys both stayed this year - which hasn't been the case in a while.  The party was immediately after the announcement - which meant they could have the bulk of the crew there before they headed off to various summer activities. And some now won't come back (as they leap to other jobs).  So it was a maximum crew party.   If there's one thing I'm confident of, it's that J2 understands they hold the livelihoods of so many in their hands.  You really couldn't have asked for a better handling of the end announcement from a crew perspective.   

  They clearly informed key recurring cast members before they made the announcement. This is a fitting professional courtesy to a trusted few.  Especially the ones that were likely to come back on the show.  So Speight, Benedict, Rhodes, Buckmaster, Connell, Smith.  Those guys knew for sure.  And knew no later than SPNNash.  But maybe not much earlier.  If these people were going to get a pilot during pilot season, their recurring role wouldn't have stopped them. 

Unambiguously, Misha was always part of the discussions IMO right from the jump.  He would have been engaged in the actual debate about what to do with J2 and when.  Because while it may be J2's show, Misha is IN that circle of trust.  He has a large dedicated fandom, he's got a huge international charity. And they just love him dearly.  Seriously, they ran a marathon cause he asked them to.  IMO if Misha needed more time, they would have given it to him.  But that's not Misha. He has zero sense of entitlement.    

But this also lets the recurring cast have a private freak-out because the show IS likely their primary professional income stream.  Veterans like Benedict & Rhodes have already been taking other gigs but the conventions mean big dollars too.  It's a nice testament to their friendship that they told them personally and early.

I think JDM was the exception.  I think Jensen told him that this was a real possibility before he signed onto the 300th.  I don't think they had made the final decision that early (pre-Christmas) but they were leaning that way.  

  The timing and approach of the public announcement ALSO massively helps the the fandom - They truly care about fandom. They understand this is going to be actually life-changing hard for some. But with this timing/approach they optimized it as best they could with a staggered process.

We get four more episodes this year while we are 'actively engaged'.  Versus some announcement during Hellatus when there's less folks on line.  It shifts our view of the last four episodes. 

It's done right before a massive con (SPNLV) where Jensen will sing (always a treat).  So it's really good pacing for us.  We get to react to the news and then hear MORE detail from them.  This is also the con that is broadcast via Stage-It.  Could be coincidence.  Maybe not. 

It keeps Comic Con a celebration not a bummer.  We'll start to 'wind up' versus be crushed. 

The announcement was a 1+1+2 strategy.  I don't know if they realized that. They said one positive (yay! S15), they got immediately to the bad news (it's the end), and then followed up with at least two positive statement (we're excited, this family doesn't go away).  Maybe it's instinct but it's a tried and true method.  (Full disclosure: 2+1+1 is the classic method, but I think they knew the jig would be up as soon as they started talking on the video so they ripped off the Band-Aid quickly).      

  All which leads me to the following speculation:

When they signed the S14/S15 contracts, they were prepared to walk away then.  It wasn't how they would want to end it, but they were going to prioritize family time.  Note: the timing of when they were 'asked back' was much later than I think they were hoping.  Based on things both Jared and Jensen said, I get the impression they were hoping to orchestrate the next two contracts earlier than Nov 17 (when they were 'asked back').  They had been talking 'mini-series' or other event-like content. I think understanding when/how they have leverage was informed by this relatively traditional November 'ask back' and this shaped how they went about the end announcement strategy.  But the 20 episode contracts with clearly more time off was both a necessity and a bit of a test -- would it hold up with that level of involvement?

I think they really expected Wayward Sisters to be picked up.  They thought crossovers with Wayward would help make a two-year transition smooth.  That they didn't get picked up, that Pedowitz crushed any spin-off hopes was significant in how they played the S15 decision.  Without Wayward, a S15 was necessary to give the crew time to land elsewhere IMO.  That also includes writers, producers, and recurring guests.  But the unexpected failure to pick up Wayward DID shift some storylines early in the season.  I think there is literally NOTHING left of Wayward tie-in after mid-season.  Except for a general "they exist in offscreenville' commitment.  As mentioned elsewhere Kathryn Newton was gonzo right away.  Yadira is on an Apple show with Jason Mamoa.  Kim has had guest appearances on other shows.  Briana has music going and probably actively looking for work for the last year.  The other 3 are back in the hopper, looking for acting gigs as far as I can tell. And I honestly think Berens still has a gaping chest wound from the loss of his hopes and dreams. I think Dabb has moved on but also feels the loss.  But without Wayward, the boys lost their structured soft ending for Supernatural. Maybe something pops up later (a special or movie) but that's dependent on how they end the series.  We won't know if it's even viable until 2020.  

They are truly ready to move on.  They've been prepared since Nov 2017.  I think they were open to more (under the 20 episode, less time contract terms) but they sense "now" is the time.  It could be the storylines, it could be the fan reaction to their less involvement (which has been understanding but generally unhappy), and it could be a variety of things.  Unless they say something specifically about the ' why now', I think it's fair to say they didn't see enough momentum to make it extend. Hence the 'go out on a high note'.  I'll be shocked if they ever criticize anyone or any story specifically.    

Bottom Line:  They brilliantly played the hand they were dealt.  It's so nice to be part of a fandom where the stars put such a priority on taking care of others.  It's why I buy in, completely, on the #SPNFamily concept. 

[laf-outloud]

I definitely had a knee-jerk reaction of "this is BS" when you didn’t post the first ask by the Jared is pulling away from cons with Jensen anon, but reading their second ask puts things into perspective. I know they are actors and are putting on a show at conventions, but I would bet Jared and Jensen still do have a lot of genuine affection for each other, but whether that truly translates into them still being "besties" i don’t know. They seem like rather different people these days. Then again, they could be just as tight, or never speak at all, outside of cons, and we’d never know either way.

Anyway, my point is, when the ask sounded like Jared is avoiding cons with Jensen because he’s a bad friend and he just can’t stand being around him anymore, this seems like BS to me. This is not because the idea isn’t possible, but rather Jared has been doing cons with Jensen for two years after "prequel gate" now, so if he was that upset with Jensen, I think he would have pulled away sooner. I also think Jared (and his management) are too professional to ever tell a con manager "Jared doesn’t want to be booked with Jensen because they aren’t besties anymore," which sounds like grade school crap. So, if the anon was making the "they aren’t friends so no more cons together" claim, I would call BS.

However, when we look at the idea of Jared pulling away for business reasons, I actually think that makes sense. Doing supernatural conventions almost exclusivity for three years past the end of the show is getting a bit much. I think if COVID hadn’t blown everything up for a couple years there, this might have happened sooner, prequel or no prequel drama. I almost wonder if prequel drama might have kept Jared around longer in order to prove that things were fine (incase the Js actually do get a Supernatural revival going in a few years). I was just at Charlotte and it was a lot of fun, the guys were great and seemed to be vining well and happy to be around each other (Jared especially was awesome and in good spirits), but it’s a bit telling that a con where we can’t ask questions about the show did just fine because fans barely ask about the show anymore anyway. As much as I like seeing J2 together and I don’t really plan to go to any events that have just one of them, I think from a business point of view, Jared is smart to cut back on CE cons or ones he shares with Jensen, especially if he had any jobs brewing. Besides, they still have four cons that we know of scheduled together next year and I’m betting there will be a couple more, so it’s not like they’ll never work together again, or get to hang out at cons.

Sorry this got so long. Feel free to disregard if you don’t feel like posting.

Have a good one. 😊

"Anyway, my point is, when the ask sounded like Jared is avoiding cons with Jensen because he’s a bad friend and he just can’t stand being around him anymore, this seems like BS to me." I'll admit, my initial reaction was much like yours, which is why my initial response implied this, but I should clarify that the European anon never implied or indicated that the split was due to their friendship, or lack thereof. That was just me reacting.

But I'm with you, in that, the longer I had to think about it, the more it made sense as a business move. A cult show can only take an actor so far, and maybe some are okay with doing the convention circuit the rest of their lives for that cult show (it's certainly profitable), but if an actor wants to remain marketable, they need to expand their brand and their reach to show buyers that they can pull in fans for their other projects and that they aren't just a one-trick pony.

[laf-outloud]

//You know, I did have a similar thought re: point #2. It's kind of why I didn't go full on hateful in my initial response, but I also think that if it is just a joke, it's going to go over a lot of heads, particularly, AAs who are more likely to visit the brewery.//

To be fair, I know a good amount of Jared fans who go to, or have gone to, the brewery. But, yeah. Even if it wasn’t intended as a slight, it looks like a slight. And with actors, sometimes that’s all that matters.

It’s like at JIB, when Jensen joked about having to pretend to be friends with him for 15+ years, when he and Rich were ragging on Jared when he and Rob joined them on stage. Like, I’m pretty sure he’s kidding, but it’s a shitty joke on a few levels. It makes him sound like he’s a liar who just played everyone (including Jared) for years. It feeds the hateful Jared antis who are always looking for evidence that people hate Jared. It makes him sound like an asshole. He only really usually does this kind of thing at JIB, so it could just be his JIB persona, but it’s a look that I have never liked on him.

I do think that J2 were legitimate friends for a long time. Even in the candid pics of them they looked just happy to be around each other. Jensen in particular looked like he simped for Jared. But, I think when Jared put up some boundaries, it made Jensen bitter. Then realizing the majority of people truly don’t care about him on Supernatural (or related projects) unless he’s with Jared made him even more bitter.

I wonder how Jensen will respond if Jared doesn’t join any more CE cons next year (I personally think he’ll be added to a couple more), and attendance suffers enough for him to realize that he can’t headline the convention on his own either. I mean, maybe there are enough heller and AAs to sustain Jensen only headliners for a while, but for 7+ (or whatever number it is now) CE contentions in one year? I’m not so sure.

Jensen and JIB is just a disaster waiting to happen.

I think Jensen and Jared were, and still are, situational friends, i.e., friends who shared multiple experiences together that bound their friendship. Early on, they probably also had an emotional friendship where they could be vulnerable with each other, but I think that's the style of friendship that's missing now. They still have all their experiences together to fall back on, but I just don't think the emotional closeness is there anymore.

So, whether that feeds into the bitterness, who knows, but you're right about the possibility of more hard truths coming for Jensen in the next year.

[laf-outloud]

Also frankly Jensen has been doing some unprofessional shit I wouldn't want to be associated with if I were Jared. He just doesn't seem like someone I would want latched to forever.

I think Jared knows that whatever Jensen does is on him and doesn't reflect on Jared. Jared takes the high road, and because of his reputation, it's easy for people to see that as being generous towards a friend, not necessarily as someone condoning his actions.

[laf-outloud]

About the CE con thing, the only thing we know for certain is that where it used to be Jared and Jensen were announced together, they aren’t anymore. Whether they used to negotiate together or not, I don’t know. But they aren’t now.

That means when reupping, you can’t be certain to get Jared.

For me, red flags on any commenter are that the Jared and Jensen relationship hasn’t changed, and blaming everything on Michele. I’m not saying that Jared and Jensen don’t like each other, but it’s clear something has changed. As is to be expected from the fact they no longer work together anymore.

Thank you for bringing it back to the facts. Announcements have changed, most people don't know why that is (and anyone who does can't be confirmed without proof, which they can't share), and everything else is speculation.

My personal belief is that it's a business decision, that was inevitable once SPN ended, and any speculation has the added weight of the ghost of prequelgate.

[laf-outloud]

I think some people get stuck on what “change” means. Your last anon is right, they don’t work together anymore, their relationship has changed. Both people who love j2, and who don’t, insist that any change is bad but I don’t think that’s the case. I think it’s normal. And while I’m neutral I expect j2 to work together again sometime so everyone can have something new to obsess over then.

Absolutely! And just because there are changes in a relationship, it doesn't mean that there isn't still value in a new version of that relationship, it's just different.

[laf-outloud]

It happens every time, though. Someone dares to comment on or question the closeness of J2's friendship post prequelgate and lo and behold someone else will immediately come along and say that 'no, actually everything is hunky dory in J2 land.'

Why the desperation to prove the status is still quo?

I just find it funny.

Thank you, anon! I feel the same way! Fans mostly see them at conventions and if they're friendly there, then what does it matter how they relate to each other in their off-time? And SPN conventions were never going to last, regardless of the relationship so if anyone's freaking out thinking that convention changes mean something in regards to their relationship, take heart that it's more likely a business decision than anything else.

[laf-outloud]

You know there have been times I tried to be super practical and believe whatever we see as J2 friendship is sold to us for SPN brand, but whenever I see both of them together in a convention or somewhere else there is some unique energy and understanding between them- which is so clear that I have to believe this is something real- not a PR purpose. None of them are that good actor to perform that bond on stage in front of live audience I guess. Funnily it doesn't feel like that with the other actors. Now maybe I am too much sentimental and romantic to think this way, and excuse me for that😂

No, I'll never excuse sentiment and romance! (I'm a bit jealous of those that can feel that!)

Your spot on about being able to see the difference in their connection with each other vs. other actors. You can really see the difference in the recent panel Jensen had with Misha. The energy was flat, the banter was awkward and it didn't flow like J2's panels often do. J2 do have the luxury of years of experience doing panels and publicity with each other, so there's an ease in knowing what the other person's going to do, but it's also because they know each other so well and are more than just coworkers. They're friends.

[lol-jackles]

From what Ive seen tinhats is a little part of the fandom. There are way more Jared Jensen/Sam and Dean girls...I think doing it with Js makes them happy but wo knows. And they haaate tinhats with all heart and soul...well its understood

Going by the convention audience it’s at least 90% Jared/Jensen/Sam/Dean girls.  Even the Tinhats say they are a small part of the fandom, but they do fulfill a purpose for J2 fans looking for evidence that J2′s epic friendship that the J2Tinhats inadvertantly supply through their meticulous stalking record keeping.  Thanks to in part to the J2Tinhats alot more people knows that Jensen and Jared have an acutal friendship that is not PR bromance.   So Jared/Jensen/Sam/Dean girls occasionally have hate sex with the J2Tinhats girls. Like how Buffy hates Spike but she can’t stop having sex with him.  And when Cockle Tinhats try to hone in with their own speculative ~evidence, it only brings further into light that Jensen and Misha don’t have a friendship outside of a professional setting.