#its not.. it doesnt seem to be terrible. but there are many flaws. and there are smarter people than me pointing them out all the time | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

ninjas-and-coffee · 4 years ago

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WU SUCKS but not the reason you think

I'd like to preface by saying Wu has made a lot of mistakes and should be held accountable. But like the main arguments against Wu be like.

1: Morro

2: Traumatizing kids

3: Keeping secrets

4: Mot treating his nephew like is damn nephew.

5: Flirting with his brothers wife.

And the thing about that needs talked about. 1:Morro. First off getting kids hopes is not cool. It can be detrimental to development depending on the age of the child. BUT. Not a single soul told Morro to train tirelessly for 60+ years after his death to take revenge and be the green ninja. Absolutly no one. Wu had compassion for his failings and wanted to show Morro he could still he great without being the green ninja. But the little brat ran tf off and got trapped and died. And he got cursed, how- we dont know. But its implied that it's either intentional entrapment or you have to be a terrible person, guess which category he probably falls into. Mind you Wu also told our OGs that they could also be the green ninja and none of them went off the rails to settle some invisible score. Morro made his choices and he made shit ones. Wu was an influence but not the problem. Morro is unstable, dramatic, and holds grudges Wu didnt cause that.

2: the traumatic experiences the nina go through are also not exactly his fault. He didnt just pick them off the streets. THERE WAS A PROPHECY. Ok? Yall with me. Fate isnt uncontrolled by anyone the ninja needed to be trained to help Lloyd fight the Overlord. That wasnt his decision. And yall act like the ninja couldn't leave whenever they wanted to. He didnt gaslight them or belittle them in anyway that wasnt for teaching. Please bring me receipts if you think otherwise. I do admit he could help a little more, be more clear, but when has a old magic teacher character ever been straightforward. With that logic fuck Dumbledore, and Gandalf, and any wise old teacher that goes to find chosen one who once again are chosen by fate not the master himself. Yall literally cant blame Wu for Child's Play and you cant blame Wu for their experience with Nadakhan either. The enemies that go out of there way to attack the ninja are not a direct cause if Wu himself. Usually. It be like blaming Garmadon for Chen. Yes they had history but it's still not his fault

3: Secrets. I will admit there is next to no reason for keeping secrets from the ninja. Considering history always has kind of score to settle. But considering his age and the apparent imprisonment or death of his past enemies there no way to predict every problem that comes back to screw him over. The Time Twins for example. Yes they came back for Wu. But he did remove their powers and separated them over 20+ years ago. They were not exactly threats to his new students now were they? Again with Aspheera, who was literally locked in a tomb why take the time to educate the ninja on a problem he had no idea was going to come back for him. Same with Morro to a more confusing degree. MORRO DIED. How was he to prepare the ninja for that? Yes please tell me how they were supposed to prepare for a dead guy. I'll wait.........k. he should be more forthcoming with the ninja, about things he knows could harm them, like the Serpentine after Lloyds released them, Chen, the Overlord, the effects of Travelers Tea, Tomorrow's Tea, Oni, Etc. But most of the time the ninja go and do it first then wonder why Wu didn't warn them.

4: His nephew. Wow his parenting sucks. Morro is not his damn child let's start there. Comparing their relationship is unfair. Wu cared for Morro the way he cares for Kai and Nya. He never accentuates a paternal relationship with then. Cause they are students, students he has to train with he intent to send them out onto dangerous battle fields and mind games. He was alone so yes it looks different but it's also a leap to just assume that Wu viewed Morro as his own despite treating him the exact same way as his 6 other students. Now back to Lloyd. Why didnt he get his nephew from Darkleys where it was known he ran away from multiple times? I DONT KNOW. No one does. That is a bad move I can only theorize about. Maybe Misako said something about staying away, maybe he wasnt kept in the loop about his nephews whereabouts due to idk KICKING HIS FATHER INTO HELL. C'mon yall. Now in the later seasons my best guess is that he doesnt know how to differentiate his nephew from the chosen one side and the goofy child side. Hes never had a child and his early relations with Lloyd were scarce and when Lloyd came to live with him. It's not due to some familial obligation, destiny literally called for it. Putting some definite strain on their relationship. I'm not excusing it he should try better, but he'd have to build a relationship from nothing and most people know their immediate family upon birth or during childhood which is not the case here. Wu treats his nephew more like a vessel of power than a person which isnt cool but knowing that the kid might not come back after every fight is a good damper on happy relationships is it not?

5: Misako. Good lord I don't have to explain this one. No excuse. It shouldn't be happening. BUT. After Garmadons death she was a free woman as gross as it is. It's more a flaw on her than it is him she chose to have a baby with one brother and still try to get with the other. And I know it takes two to tango but dont get mad at the idiot that the cheater is cheating with. Be mad at the cheater. The thing people really dont get about love triangles. The "other guy" brings on the questions/options but the person who cant choose or screws with both parties is the one in the wrong. Lloyd seems ok with it. Because Tommy said so. I dont particular give two shits about his take on the show half the time. If Lloyd were actively against it the Wu would probably stop. If the Fsm family acted like a normal ass family we probably wouldnt be here. But their priorities are a little screwy compared to typical nuclear families. Not an excuse just some perspective

NOW, why he is a bad character despite all of those arguments. he chooses to train soldiers rather than care for impressionable teens. Yes the situation called for it but the pressure could he alleviated if he decided to actually help before the world was on fire. He chooses to teach by experience than be upfront. Which works sometimes but not when actual lives are at stake. His trial by fire teaching works but the possiblity it could go wrong is to big to be brushed aside. His seemingly unreachable vault of empathy is hard to swallow. He rarely actually feels things for other people, his lack of enthusiasm when they pull through something hurts to watch. His lack of empathy about raising his nephew to attempt to kill his father is frightening. The pride he demonstrates by choosing not to disclose his past until it's too late is dangerous. He doesnt directly put down the ninja unless he has to and its more implied than anything and is on his students and this fandom for taking it so harshly. He trusts them a lot because he doesnt see them as kids anymore. They are warriors and it was necesary. He should have more compassion. He should be more straight forward, he should try to act like a person and not some ethereal being of elsewhere that doesn't have time to appease feelings or care about people until after hes wronged them. His values are off kilter sometimes which is whatever until it starts to hurt people

But yall need to stop blaming him for other people actions. Morro was a mess to begin with. His problems are in the past because he took care of them already. Misako came onto him. (He should have resisted but he didnt start shit she did). He needs to try to be an uncle alongside being a teacher. He needs to act like a fucking person more than the infinite cache of wisdom and unforeseen unused power that he acts like. And also it's a kids show. How many children think the way yall do?, we're teens/YAs we're reading into things. A LOT which makes everything more complicated. Comments rebuttals open. There's a collection of little mistakes hes made along the way that dont fit into these categories but these are the main reasons I know people hate him and the little things add fuel to the fire. I will legit talk about anything Except for the morro thing I am so tired of seeing it Morro made his choices hes a fucking Villain Wu didnt make him that way being a bitter asshole did that. Thanks for reading!! :3

#ninjago #coffee speaks #lloyd garmadon #fuckin misako #Wu ninjago #discourse #ranting #tw: negative #replies will be on my second account of there are any #trust me i hate him too #morro #tw: aldultery #not art

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kewltie · 5 years ago

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the nerd and jock cliche, where bakugou is a frat boy on an athletic scholarship and deku is the clumsy nerd but nothing is whatt it seems because bakugou is all the professors' fav honors student) and deku is on a first name basis w/ the campus police because he keep getting arrested for various illegal actions around campus.

deku feels extremely passionate about the environment and civic duty etc and wants the world to care as much as he does!!! so he get tangled up in various issues around campus and caused all sort of problems even as he fixes them. katsuki is the v v tired bf who has to bail him out lol

ppl knows midoriya izuku before they even met him because he's famous around campus for his many colorful 'deeds' and that one time he released frogs from the biology building in protest of finding out that the school dumping their waste in the restricted woods. he's a good student but he got a rebellious streak a mile wide. rules are good only if they serve the betterment of society otherwise deku usually said fuck it which is the most hilarious thing to katsuki because izuku gets stupidly shy trying to hold katsuki’s hand but he has no problem getting right up in a bully face before getting someone punch him lol /o\.

Katsuki is the campus golden boy: stellar academic records, incredibly athletic, and tho he's blunt and prickly the school hold him high esteem because he get shit down without raising hell over unlike izuku. esp the profs because he's their star student w/o fail but he got a major flaw—his bf who all the profs dread and begrudgingly loves!!

izuku is small in size and soft in heart, but he got the soul of a harden soldier who never came back from war because he somehow always find a cause to fight for as though he cant stop fighting or he'll die. it just means he loves and cares too much for you, me, everyone, and the world!!! katsuki knows that well enough, that's why he doesnt stop izuku from doing what he does. also, because he thinks it's fucking funny to see his smol bf go up against giant foes like that sleezy sexist fuckboi in their chem class to pharmaceutical company with clenched fists. katsuki's life is just perfect growing up: good school, good friends, and annoying but supportive parents who let him have free reign so when he met izuku in their first year in college, this kid w/ the bleeding heart & bruise fist, his life got royally wrecked and he loves it.

izuku makes his life 200% more interesting with all the often weird and/or troubling things he get up to. katsuki's life was perfect but boring af until izuku steamrolled into it and fucked it up the only way he knew how—izuku may starts fight but it is katsuki who ends them. While izuku loves katsuki absolutely. he thinks katsuki is the raddest person on earth because he never hesitates, if he wants something he'll go for it w/o fail, wont even consider anything less. They actually met before this, but katsuki doesnt remember the boy he'd saved years back and now inspired.

izuku's life was a series of compromise from the ticking time bomb in his chest (literally) to the unfairness of the world because he's either too frail, too much, or too diff to ever be accepted properly but katsuki doesnt give one iota drop of fuck about it when they first met as kids. He’d moved at his pace, uncompromising and unknowingly saved izuku during one of the worst times of his life. So after finding out his savior's name, izuku cant stop looking at him and LOOKING UP TO HIM. izuku tries desperately to emulate katsuki’s no nonsense attitude just so he can have a drop of that fearless determination because he got only one life, however limited it is to save ppl, help the world, to do something and be w/ katsuki.

He’d followed katsuki to his college, reinvented himself, and finally caught the heart of the boy he'd secretly loved. he's living his life to the fullest now, no hesitation or regrets now. if he die today... he would be ok w/ it because he did everything he could. katsuki would be proud. EXCEPT izuku fights for everyone else but not for himself and katsuki once he realized all the secrets izuku have been hiding he's gonna kill him and reminds him that he isnt a one person army and that katsuki too will go to war for him so DO NOT QUIT! DONT GO GENTLE INTO THE GOODNIGHT.

Heres the thing: izuku was born with a weak heart that he inherited from his father, so he spent most of his childhood in and out of hospital. in one long hospital stay, he met another boy. blond hair, a scowling face, and a mean mouth. he'd broke both of his legs playing a game w/ his friends. they were not the only kids of the same age in the hospital but izuku was too quiet and too shy to get along w/ the other kids and katsuki didn't want to be trap in a hospital and certainly didnt want to make any new friends so ofc izuku found katsuki interesting right away.

he was drawn to katsuki's strength and his determination because even he was wearing a cast and told that he won't be able to walk in till a couple of weeks but he WANTED TO WALK SOON AND SO PRACTICE AND PRACTICE. everytime he fell he got up again and made forced his away to be better. izuku never met such a brazen soul before so he stuck close to katsuki even though katsuki ignored him and yelled at him to go away everytime but izuku persistent eventually paid off. katsuki tolerated him by his side, insisting he can't be friend w/ someone who pussyfoot around.

"just because you're sick shouldn't stop you from doing what you want. there are more to life then the four walls of your hospital room!" it's the kind of things kids who don't fully know the consequence of his actions would say but izuku took that to heart, BE BRAVE LIKE KACCHAN he thought to himself.

They’d only known each other for a few weeks before katsuki was eventually released, but izuku never forgot that boy or his vows, "when you get better, come and find me and we'll play again!" he said it was as though izuku's doesn't have a hole in his heart. LITERALLY. and he didn't watch his father die of the same disease!! look, izuku may be young and his mom and nurses coddle him but izuku knew ppl like him dont live long. there was an expiration date and he had been living w/ waiting for his heart to give out,,, but then katsuki came along!

now, with renewed interest in life izuku tried to get better and underwent several surgeries to aid his heart and maybe keep his alive just a little longer. he took HIM YEARS AND YEARS to finally be able to live some semblance of a normal life, but he still that same hesitant boy underneath all that bravado. when he tried to find katsuki again, katsuki had not only thrive outside the hospital but he was living his life to the fullest—excelling in class and in sports and he always surrounded w/ friends and ppl even though he put a fuss about them. all the while izuku was healthier now, stop relying on the hospital but he remained ever stagnant because while he was removed from the hospital and all that entailed, death still clung to him and he still hold reservation about himself, the world, and what it mean to live.mthe next time they meet, izuku promised that he would change for the better so katsuki would turn his way!!! because right now izuku wouldn't be able to stand equal to him and he couldn't face katsuki w/ the way he was now so when they meet again izuku would be a diff and better person

so HE WORKED SUPER HARD ON HIMSELF and his studies to get into the same college as him, pleading his mom to let him go to a school far away and that he would be v v v careful about his heart meds. izuku put his life on the line for this chance to change himself and be someone worthy. so it's not that izuku IS FEARLESS AND BRAVE, but it's that he's so terribly scare of dying that he's risking his one SINGLE life to live however he please right now because he doesn't know how much longer he has to live. he wants to do everything he could with w/e time he has left.

izuku is the way he is now because of katsuki and his fear of losing out on happiness if he never seize the chance for himself. it's,,, not a good prospective but its what keep izuku going and going even when his heart sends him back to the hospital again w/ katsuki glaring down at him.

#bakudeku #not!fic #nerd & jock au

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yellowbluemoonshine · 4 years ago

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One of my triggers is when someone says that villain cannot be or deserve to be redeemed. Like they acknowledge the tragic circumstances, but they say like the villain show no remorse for killing innocent people or just want to destroy everything. I really don't like people saying they want the villain have some naruto's redemption. But I feel like they missed point of why many of us want it. The villains never had a choice unlike endeavor or afo.

Agreed.

I think some people dont understand the meaning of redemption. Redemption means facing with what you did, taking responsibility and this is the best thing that person can do. To me, there is no such thing that great villain or best villain, something like improving yourself to be better villain cause being a villain is literally comes from choosing to not improving yourself to be better person. People dont choose to be evil or bad, they learn all bad things from their environment. They just simply dont choose to be better person and thats the flaw of "villains" have. Choosing to do wrong things usually comes from lack of goodness, lack of empathy.

Like, Overhaul was abandonded and traumatized by it. He was used as a tool by Yakuza. They used a child. And Overhaul became a yakuza and he truly wanted to pay his boss for taking him in. But what makes overhaul “bad” guy is not choosing to be yakuza cause he was groomed to be, his flaw was choosing to not changing. He could’ave emphatize with his underlings and could connect with them. He could emphatize with Eri cause Eri is just like her, she was abandoned and taken by Yakuza. Overhaul went to school and had people around him, instead of obsessing with past, he could open himself to new people. he could gain new different perspectives, he could at least try. Overhaul didnt suddenly decide to destroy little girl, he learnt those horrible things from Yakuza but when he could choose to be better person, he didnt.

There is a reason that Shigaraki is meant to be parallel with him. Unlike Overhaul, Shigaraki didnt go to school and he didnt have people around him, he was isolated but when he met with other people, he chose to care, listen their needs.

This shows that Shigaraki choosing to change but there are villains who doesnt want to change. I dont know that what kind of person Overhaul would be, if he had better life or if he could ever change for better but for now, he doesnt seem to want to change and story didnt give any hint about it.

There is a reason that some characters get redemption but some do not. The characters/villains who dont get redemption or who dont want to change is not cool or “loyalty to their evil cure” or something like that. They are people who choose easy ways cause redemption means taking responsibility and trying to be better person, improving yourself as person is not easy at all.

Murder is bad, wrong, yes but we all are humans equally and people dont just suddenly decide to doing worst thing. And sometimes, people dont have too much choices, sometimes they can be in hard situtions, sometimes they do things to survive, many reason can be, we cant know that. So yes, murder is bad but that doesnt mean that murderer is bad person.

The thing that many people ignore is anyone could do those horrible things. Lets say, you are in hunger game. If you dont kill, other person will kill you. Many people would choose to kill. Or lets say, if you dont kill, they will your family or you are hungry and if you cant kill that person, you wont get food. blah blah. Point is what importance is not the degree of crime.

Most important thing is How aware is the perpetrator of what he is doing? Under what conditions did he make this choice? when and where did he make this choice?

Abuse, rape, murder. These things are all bad things (i wont talk about rape cause i dont have enough information about it cause it mihgt relate a lot of things.).

For example, Endeavour abused his family, Shigaraki killed people. Many people wouldnt care abuse or bullying cause “its not like they died”, most people tell them to get over it and they ignore all the effects of abuse. (This is actually what bnha focus on. Abuse.) Well, of course killing is pretty bad though.

Now, we can ask the questions.

-What Endeavour did?

Violence towards his family

When Endeavour made this decision?

He was grown man, basically when he was an adult, an age that you are responsible for your actions cause you can see the difference between right and wrong and you are capable of holding yourself

Under what conditions did he make this choice?

He did work so hard to be No 1 hero but he failed, um, he has money, access to a lot of things, good education so of course, when you worked hard and you dont get results, you will be so upset, it would be hard. But we can say that Endeavour wasnt even really in hard sitution at all.

What kind of choices he made?

He chose his ambitions over well being of his family. So basically he made very selfish decision with his own will for the sake of selfish desires and it resulted with other people’s getting hurt and Endeavour didnt even care about that.

How this selfish decision affect other people?

His wife became unstable and stayed in hospital for 15 years, she is still in there

Shouto lost his all childhood, he was traumatized and still having flashbacks from his trauma

Fuyumi had to act like a parent since her young age, Natsuo has anger issues cause of all this stuff

Touya/Dabi literally dealing with mental issues, identify disorder cause of abuse effects

So basically, Endeavour is fully responsible for what he did.

Btw for the people who dont know, this is a crime in real life, he should be arrested but look at what he got. He decided to change, like 6 months ago or something. Except of his hero job, he apologised and left the house for them and thats it. Rei and Fuyumi already is ready forgive him cause Rei wants his children to be happy cause Endeavour took that hapinness from them, Fuyumi just wants happy normal family cause Endeavour took that normal family life from her, Shouto is forcing himself to forgive cause to be able to be hero, he needs to work with his father and his all family wants this. From people’s eyes, Natsuo seems “someone who couldnt get over past” just because he didnt forgive his father or just because he didnt act like nothing happenned, he gets social pressure from it. This probably didnt happen, if Endeavour wasnt prohero.

Now, lets look at Shigaraki.

What Shigaraki did?

Murder, kidnap, threatinning, violent behaviours without hesitations

When Shigaraki made this decision?

Lets look at how it all started.

When Shigaraki chose to kill people?

when he was 5 years old? when he was 7-8 years old when Afo manipulate him to kill people? or when he became an adult and continuing this murder?

Point here is; children cant be responsible for crimes for a reason cause they dont have ability to understand what is right what is wrong.

so when he killed his family; it was accident except his father.

But with his father, it was self defense. Many people want to believe that it was intentional but its not, his father hit him and he reacted to violence, thats it. There is also other fact that children can not able to hold theirselves, especially like when you just watched all your family s death in front of your eyes.

So, logically he can not be responsible for his family’s death.

When he was 7-8 years old, Shigaraki is making a decision here and from this moment, he continues the murder but what kind of decision he is making? Under what conditions did he make this choice?

He was traumatized and he is dealing with abuse effects, his anger, negative feelings that he has no idea to how to deal with, he didnt get any education, he doesnt have people who will give him a different choice or people who wil give him some kind of affection, he is literally with Afo all alone, isolated, dont know what to do, doesnt know what is right and Afo says him “you have two choices”

1- suffer lonely forever like this while others are having fun but just you know, you will be disappointed for me-the person who saved you, if you stay like this

2- destroy anything you dont like and make me proud

This didnt happen right when he was 7-8,

Shigaraki is with Afo since he was 5, he listened those words for years and he hold himself back. Then the decision Shigaraki make was first one, he hold himself, until the moment holding himself is not an option. This is why he became a murder. Let me remind you, he was 7-8 so he still wasnt responsible for killing at that age.

so you can say, now Shigaraki became an adult so he can choose but we all know that people dont grow, if they dont have a chance to grow.

People kill to survive, this is not to justify murder, this is understanding of that sometimes some people can not really make choice in some situtions.

If a person is not given growth conditions, children cannot grow.

Shigaraki may have grown biologically, but mentally, he was not given the opportunity to grow. What makes us humans human is our interaction with other people.

If we do not interact with anyone, we lose our identity or in the case of Shigaraki, our personality does not occur. If Shigaraki has not grown, how can he be considered an adult?

We know that many terrible events such as trauma and violence can cause long-term damage to people's brains regarding mental health. So, how can Shigaraki's trauma be responsible for what she does, given his mental health?

We know that it is impossible not to lose mental balance in conditions of Shigaraki, it is impossible to grow, it is impossible to protect his mind against manipulation at the age of a child. So how exactly could Shigaraki cope in these conditions?

This is the problem. He cant not be able to handle it. Impossible.

You might say you could choose not to kill, but while the only adult who was with him showed him that it was true, and how he could otherwise deal with these feelings he had accumulated in him, what else could Shigaraki do?

Shigaraki kills without hesitation because killing is all he knows, the only thing he has been taught.

That's why Shigaraki's interaction with his team is important because it was the first time in his life that he met different opinions and people.

So he started to heal throughout the series. He chose to improve, to be a better person. So this character can get redemption.

And he feels guilty about what he does, but he does not show it by crying, he shows treating his own life as nothing and harming himself. Shigaraki may have begun to develop herself, but it does not mean that his trauma will cure magicly and he will suddenly getting away from Afo manipulation, he cant because he still hasn't given her another choice. No one was able to show him another way to survive both without suffering and having to kill. That's why it's important for a hero to reach out him.

Yes, Shigaraki killed a lot of people and they didnt deserve it, of course but whether he killed one person or killed million people, he had no choice. Everyone wants this character to pay the price because they want to blame someone for those much death, whereas like Afo and Ujiko who made Shigaraki suffer, those who choose not to reach Shigaraki when they can reach like Gran Torino etc, are more responsible than Shigaraki for what they did because they choose. But Shigaraki is just putting into practice what he has been taught, thats all he knows.So people really want to blame someone, they should blame people who could do something about it but choosing not to, they could blame the people who hurt this kid for their selfish reasons, they shouldnt blame the kid who is just reacting his pain cause he doesnt have a choice, he is not making a decision and people REACT.

Shigaraki can not understand his actions of how he effect other people / effect of his actions cause he is hardly be able to see them as an indiviluas, thats what happens, when you live your life as isolated. Shigaraki cant care other people s life while his own life was treated as worthless, they literally ignored his pain, even when he was a child. Shigaraki cant emphatize with people in society who have good lifes cause he never felt a safety his all life, there is no way he can understand their comfort. So basically, in those conditions, its not that Shigaraki doesnt want to emphatize with them, he CANT.

(This is why he asked Deku cause he is trying to understand at least to be able to improve himself for better which is the most important thing).

This is why people like Afo, Ujiko, Hero commity, Endeavour, they are worse than people like Shigaraki, Dabi, Hawks, Toga etc cause those people who created these “monsters” with their full will for the sake of their selfish desires. They are more responsible for monster’s actions than monsters casue they are the one who groomed them, rebuild their mindset.

That was also the subject of the Frankeinstein story. The monster may have killed a lot of people, but who created the monster? How does the monster become guilty when there are people who can teach him the truth, but don't choose to teach it, while the monster doesn't know what it's doing is right and wrong? However, he was not taught better. So how can he choice better, if he hasnt taught better? HE CANT.

As many as people want, may think Shigaraki is making a choice right now and that he's a bad guy, but in those circumstances, it was impossible for Shigaraki to choose a better option.

What do you expect to happen when you close someone in a room for years, stop him from talking to people and subject him to constant violence?

Do you think that person will not react to this violence?

Do you expect that person to behave like human while that person lives away from all kinds of human conditions?

Under these conditions, it is nonsense to expect better than Shigaraki.

In other words,

murder is apparently worse than violence, but an adult like Endeavor, who chooses exactly what he is doing without caring about the harm to other people, is fully responsible for what he does. Shigaraki, on the other hand, cannot really be held responsible for what she did, as it is impossible to act otherwise under these conditions.

So i understand that people are upset with death of people which is normal, those people who were killed by Shigaraki didnt deserve it at all but people need to understand that Shigaraki didnt have better choice, path than this. People say “this doesnt justify” cause they are scared of that the person will get away from what he did but point here is he doesnt get away from anything, he is victim whose all choices and humanity taking away from him so treating this victim as villain who just should defeated is NOT justice. If people want to blame someone, they should blame the people who are TRULY responsible for this, not the victim whose humanity stolen from him. Thats the point here.

By the way, not everyone has to be like Shigaraki. Shigaraki is already a character designed to be the ultimate victim. The reason it parallels with Deku is not because they are both heirs, but because they are both essentially the same kind child. But not everyone could be this kind, they could react worse and they might not have adapted to change that much. Shigaraki is just a tragic example of even you are the kindest person in the world, in terrible conditions, you would be just like Shigaraki or probably worse. He is a tragedy character, symbolize the victimhood that shows untentionally with most unpleasant ways. (Toga, Dabi, Shigaraki etc they all symbolize effects of violence though, they are not choosing a decision but actually just reacting the violence they endured, thats all, maybe i can make analysis about it later.)

Redemption is not about deserving or not. It's about wanting to be a better person but facing your creations or not. And if a villain receives redemption, it already shows that he has this potential from the very beginning, potential to be a good person, actually he was not as bad as that was thought, that is. Well at least, well-written redemptions work like this. In other words, villains such as Joker or Ujiko that will not receive redemption have nothing to admire. Choosing to be a villain until the end of your life is not something to be proud of, it is something to be ashamed of, because this is proof that you don't want to improve yourself.

I was just gonna say “i agreed” and make it short but i guess, i am kinda bored and this post became my rant, lol. Thank you anon btw.

#endeavour #shigaraki tomura #child abuse #abuse #bnha abuse #shimura tenko #mha redemption #anon

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stingroy · 5 years ago

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Who do you think was the mist immoral character of Moral Orel Clay or Censordoll? Do you think there were evil characters in the show or were they just flawed people trying to do what they perceived as the right thing?

THIS POST IS LONG BEWARE

im bias but clay all the way

if ms censordoll was a real person i would despise her, but in the show shes really fun and interesting to watch imo! of course i dont condone book burning and censorship i just think shes a good character to critique and make fun censorship with, plus i love her voice whoever her voice actor is did a great job. to be honest i havent rewatched the episodes where shes a main focal point in a long while so i need to refresh my memory before id be able to really form a strong opinion on her that i would stand by firmly

clay is an abusive addict with no interest in anyone else but himself, he has no agenda other than to get drunk and be miserable. i mean maybe he’s “invested” in teaching orel because he’s his only (legitamate) son but then... nature still happened. clay often talks about how hes distant from his family on purpose and doesnt care about them so i dont think he really gives that much of a shit all in all. i know he had a difficult childhood (yet another episode i need to rewatch (its been years), im on s2e3 so i still have a ways) but it doesnt justify like anything he does. cool motive still murder yknow? clay reminds me a lot of my religious alcoholic estranged father so i DEFINITELY have a personal bone to pick with clay cuz ive been there.

when it comes to whether the townspeople are evil, i feel like that question really lies at the heart of the show, not just for clay and censordoll but almost everyone in moralton (cept for orel of course). i could go into that concept for the next seventeen years so i wont right now but i think between the both of them at least censordoll probably thought she was doing the right thing for the people in her town. not that anything she did was actually right, but organizing all those daily pickets and book burnings must take some effort, right? someone who didnt care at all wouldnt go through the trouble. she seems to like genuinely care about moralton being righteous, even if her idea of righteous media is completely skewed and wrong. i wouldnt call that evil, horribly misguided and incorrect definitely but evil? im not really sure.

again tho its been a while so my opinion might change as i run thru s2 and 3 again, and im really starting to consider that if censordoll was a real person i probably would consider her to be evil but that might be more of a comment on my thought processes and perception of people than censordoll herself... lol

i dont know if clay even thinks he’s doing the right thing by orel truly. i think somewhere deep inside past his addiction there is someone in there trying to do something for orel, trying to keep him on the right path in a weird and terribly unfortunate way. clay has made it clear through his actions that he will not engage with parts of his family that he doesnt care about (cough bloberta and shapey cough), and he seems to always make time for orel. whenever orel needs to talk to him, clay is around to give his lessons and “guidance”. maybe thats just because his lessons are a crucial part of the show, but i think that shows. some effort? some acknowledgement? that he doesnt show to anything else other than drinking.

unfortunately clay is a sick motherfucker. he’s so rooted in his own trauma and addiction that he cant see anything other than his own pain. and i do absolutely sympathize with that, ive dealt with my own traumas and addictions and you lose sight of who you are and what you value. sometimes people can get to the point where they lose everything they love other than the bottle, and then they die and lose that too. its a disease, and its absolutely not someones fault that they have an alcohol problem.

but clay gives into himself. he makes no effort to change his situation, bloberta even brings this up in s1ep10 when theyre arguing about shapey’s breastfeeding. she tells him to quit his stinkin dead end job and stop being such a crybaby and you know what shes mean af but shes right! all clay does is wallow around and drink because hes miserable and stays miserable because he drinks. he numbs everything out instead of changing his life for... convenience? image? fear? probably a combo

my real problem with clay is that he hurts people because he is hurt. thats where my sympathy dies and i no longer really care about his motivations and trauma. i think nature is the clearest example of that, but clay hurts orel throughout the show. like damn he literally beats the kid with a belt in 90% of the episodes. its just not justifiable to me at all.

i will say one more thing that clay does that i think really says something about him. everytime orel does something wrong, clay takes him to his study, beats/spanks him with the belt (we never see it so who knows how severe it is), and then talks to orel. and orel LISTENS. ALWAYS. clay doesnt have to beat orel to punish him, orel has such a strong sense of loyalty and obiedience that his true punishment is his fathers disappointment. orel always listens to what clay says without question, and clay still finds it nessecary to beat him. it makes me think that clay gets something else out of that interaction like vindication, stress relief, or something of that nature. its cruel, and its selfish. its like beating a dog. you dont have to do it to make him listen to you, so why do it? probably for a reason other than discipline.

clay and censordoll are obvs the two people we’re talking about but a lot of people in moralton do bad things for the sake of righteousness and goodness. like i said a bit earlier i really do think that question is The Big Question of the show, and i feel like many people will have varying opinions based on their own morals and life experiences. the intricate motivations and values of each of the characters in moral orel is one of the things that makes the show so great and so interesting that here i am writing a long winded “analysis” on it on tumblr a decade after it was released.

WOW i completely derailed myself and started rambling for seven hours but!!!

tl;dr clay is a bitch and the people of moralton arent inherently evil monsters but i sure do have my problems with them

#THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS QUESTION #i think i really needed to Talk. About Clay.#I Could Go On. about almost every character in that show but obvs wont atm because this is already les miserables level of length #but im sure ill get there eventually if my diatribes arent too annoying to yall #moral orel #anon #abuse #alcoholism #long post

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sweetescapeartist · 4 years ago

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Since there is barely anybody that looks at this blog now, imma say some things now that I'll reveal later on Twitter (maybe). Also this is gonna be a long read so you can read if you wanna or not. Its kinda a rant.

I started this blog because I liked Dragon Ball and wanted to share my ideas and things I liked with other fans. I enjoyed that. Krillin is my favorite character so I wanted to show him some love & maybe get more ppl to like him. Then eventually I started drawing nsfw art.

I began doing so because there's a great lack of Krillin positive nsfw art. Eventually on my Twitter, I gathered a following that like to see Krillin getting some love. I also went from sfw with my OC Tobi to drawing nsfw. The problem I have with both is that I don't have time as much to draw what is like to. Nor do I care as much for nsfw art.

So this is what I'm trying to say. I have other things I want to do. I draw for free and accept some requests. I'm not getting paid and I feel like I'm wasting my time somewhat. The positive is that more ppl have come to like Krillin and hopefully more will later. There aren't a lot of nsfw artist that promote Krillin. Its all about Saiyans and I understand why. I like Saiyans too. But its always at the expense of human characters that I like especially Krillin.

"Vegeta got beat up by 18 so he deserves to dick her down"

"18 should be with anyone else but Krillin. She should be with a Saiyan."

I'm seriously tired of it, ya know? Its just such negativity. I've tried to combat it with positivity and that does work but that's not what most ppl seem to care about or see. Krillin means a lot to many of us. Yes, we know he's a fictional character but he's someone we can latch on to and see ourselves in. How he constantly tries hard and doesnt give up despite having low self-esteem. He is very relatable and an encouraging character. So understand that it frustrates me and others when ppl keep making fun of a character we love just because of memes that are very innacurate, he's short, he's married to what most of the fandom consider the most attractive female in the series (so they're jealous of him to an extent), or when ppl downright degrade his character.

Why? Why treat a positive character so negatively? Ppl make fun of Krillin because he has PTSD but won't make fun of Future Trunks. They trash his marriage and make it seem as if 18 doesn't care for him because he has the most stable marriage in the series. They call his daughter an ugly troll but want to see her in hentai with some Saiyan. Such hypocrisy. That's why I've drawn some of the things I have.

There are drawings I've done that I haven't posted because they are so disrespectful to characters like Vegeta or Gohan. And I love Gohan so that's a reason why I never posted them. I'm a positive person but it seems many ppl only respond to negative. So here's what I've done/plan to do.

I have some comics planned to draw along with some pictures. The pictures vary on what they will be, but the comics... Here's what they are.

I will be making NTR comics starring Krillin but he is the main character. There are too many of him being portrayed as a wimp or punk that lets everybody get with 18 besides himself. Or its done behind his back. So I'm going to have Krillin taking other character's ladies from them. Yeah its negative in a way but also positive for Krillin. Maybe this can get the point across to ppl? Idk.

But I will make a comic where Krillin gets Videl, Bulma, & Chichi. I will make others where he gets into "situations" with characters like Kale & Caulifla, Cheelai, & others. I also plan to make a comic about Roshi basically being cucked by Krillin (you'll have to wait and see to understand that one). So that's what I have planned. Hentai comics with Krillin as the lead. Its unpopular and that is why I do it.

I'll make other more positive comics too. Like a comic about Krillin getting advice then marrying 18. Ill draw stories with my OC Tobi as he lives with Krillin and his family & dates Marron. It will focus on the Chestnut family and have father/son moments with Krillin & Tobi. And ill introduce other characters too.

But here's the big thing that contradicts everything I said prior. I don't want to draw DB anymore. The fan base has kinda wore me out but so has the direction the series has gone. In bored of the writing for DBS and it being solely about Goku & Vegeta when there are other characters like Gohan & Piccolo. Its a fighting anime so why would we only want to see 2 characters? God ki was introduced so that's an easy way for everyone to get stronger and involved. But its too corporate now and lazy. And the DBS manga... so terrible. Toyotaro is a much better artist than I am and not to talk bad about him but I think DragonGarowLee is much better for the position that Toyo. DGL knows how to choreograph fights better and understands Toriyama's comedy better. Toyo doesn't know how to write the characters. He makes Goku an uncaring idiot, makes Vegeta a poorly written Goku clone, makes fun of Krillin for no reason except he doesn't like him (seriously! He has called him ugly, weak, scared, useless, & had ppl like Goku and Roshi insult Krillin. Wtf?!), he doesnt know how to create a unique character without ripping off a character Tori has done much better. And the fanboys (& girls)

Gosh! The Vegeta fans are great but they can be crazy sometimes. They ignore all the evil Vegeta has done and ignore his flaws as if he's a perfect angel. Vegeta's flaws is what makes him such an interesting character! And him being different than Goku is a good thing. But there's a weird and false understanding of his character. "Vegeta is a better dad than Goku" sure. Vegeta just knocked up Bulma then left her as. Single mother and didn't care if she or his infant son died, never hugged his son until he was 10+ yrs old & didn't love Bulma until sometime during the 7 yr time skip. He was a terrible person in a terrible relationship! THEN he became a better person and actually loving to his family. That change is what make Vegeta great. Not his power level or how many kills he has or "cool moments."

That same twisted misunderstanding of Vegeta is similar to the misunderstanding of Krillin. Ppl think he's weak and a coward. But he fights aliens & beings stronger than him and even injures stronger opponents. He smiles in the face of danger and even gets excited during fights but is smart enough not to risk others lives. Krillin nearly killed Nappa, he would've finished Vegeta with the Spirit Bomb if Yajirobe didn't alert Vegeta that Krillin was attacking him, smart enough not to fight on Namek when they're outnumbered, took on aliens stronger than him, outsmarted them & escaped, protected both Gohan & Bulma, more skilled than Ginyu when he was in Goku's body, sacrificed his safety for others like Dende & Gohan, (for real tho, Vegeta didn't see 2nd form Freeza move but Krillin was fast enough to throw Dende out of the way and sacrifice his life. Krillin saw Freeza attacking and Vegeta who is supposed to be stronger did not see Freeza move!), he was the first person to actually damage Freeza and then taunted the Emperor of the Universe, he's always there for his friends, knew better than everybody else that if the androids defeated Vegeta & Trunks then he shouldn't get involved. He saved 18 who was innocent in this timeline, helped 16, wished for the bombs out of 17 & 18 so they could live normally. Then fast forward to DBS he fought to protect his family & planet & 18 calls him "cool", he conquers his PTSD and gained new power he always had but laid dormant, he defeated someone who actually hurt 18. & there are things he's done I didn't even mention.

And ppl constantly saying Goku is a bad dad. He's waaaaaaaay better of a father compared to Vegeta if were being honest.

I guess I've seen a lot of the negative side of the fandom and its disappointing. So I'm at a point where I kinda don't care. I'll make my comics but after I'm done with what I have planned, I'm just done with DB. I won't stop drawing entirely but I won't draw any requests unless I feel like it, I won't keep up with much DB news and content. I just want to come back to Tumblr, draw Krillin fanart, draw Tobi, write some rewrites, draw Tobi's story & that's it. Ill be a part of Chestnut Fest every year tho. That is one of the greatest things to come out of my time on Tumblr & Twitter. So big thanks to @chestnutisland!

But basically I'm tired of the fandom and I still enjoy parts of it but I want to do my own thing. So I'll partially be a part of the DB fandom but not in it too deep. Look forward to what I have in store. If some of my future content isn't to your liking, hopefully you ccan find something else I've done that you'll enjoy. But its still been fun & I've enjoyed the ppl I've talked too & friends I've made.

#my thoughts #dragon ball #dragon ball z #dragon ball super #rant #krillin #comics #my plans

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somnilogical · 5 years ago

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modular "ethics":

a wrong and two rights make a right

<<I've been known to cause outrage by suggesting that people who really care about something shouldn't have romantic relationships. Think what would happen if I dared to suggest that those people should also seriously consider getting castrated. That would be crazy! And who am I to suggest that basically everyone claiming to be doing good is faking it? Then people would feel bad about themselves. We can't have that!>>

https://squirrelinhell.blogspot.com/2018/02/men-have-women-are.html

previously i talked about an infohazard about altruism that seemed to fuck with grognor. it feels useful to pass by the dead and look at their lives and choices.

i dont think that castrating yourself is a good intervention for doing stuff you care about, like this is patchwork constraints for an unaligned optimizer. if you arent altruistically aligned from core values, castrating yourself wont make you more aligned.

the "altruists" having babies thing is actual insane and pasek is right about that. pretty much all of society will try and gaslight you about this the way sometimes people are gaslit about "i need to have sex with lots of attractive fems to keep up my moral so i can do super good stuff afterwards.". like if people want to do good for the world it will flow out as a continuous expression of value not some brent dill kind of deal that institutions like CFAR accepted until there was too much social pressure for them to maintain this facade.

the entire premise that morality is this modular thing and you can help set the utility function of an FAI while being a terrible person, is wrong. yet organizations like CFAR keep thinking it will work out for them:

<<We believe that Brent is fundamentally oriented towards helping people grow to be the best versions of themselves. In this way he is aligned with CFAR’s goals and strategy and should be seen as an ally.

In particular, Brent is quite good at breaking out of standard social frames and making use of unconventional techniques and strategies. This includes things that have Chesterton’s fences attached, such as drug use, weird storytelling, etc. A lot of his aesthetic is dark, and this sometimes makes him come across as evil or machiavellian.

Brent also embodies a rare kind of agency and sense of heroic responsibility. This has caused him to take the lead in certain events and be an important community hub and driver. The flip side of this is that because Brent is deeply insecure, he has to constantly fight urges to seize power and protect himself. It often takes costly signalling for him to trust that someone is an ally, and even then it’s shaky.

Brent is a controversial figure, and disliked by many. This has led to him being attacked by many and held to a higher standard than most. In these ways his feelings of insecurity are justified. He also has had a hard life, including a traumatic childhood. Much of the reason people don’t like him comes from a kind of intuition or aesthetic feeling, rather than his actions per se.

Brent’s attraction to women (in the opinion of the council) sometimes interferes with his good judgement. Brent knows that his judgement is sometimes flawed, and has often sought the help of others to check his actions. Whether or not this kind of social binding is successful is not obvious.>>

https://pastebin.com/fzwYfDNq

<<AnnaSalamon 2/6/09, 5:54 AM

Aleksei, I don’t know what you think about the current existential risks situation, but that situation changed me in the direction of your comment. I used to think that to have a good impact on the world, you had to be an intrinsically good person. I used to think that the day to day manner in which I treated the people around me, the details of my motives and self-knowledge, etc. just naturally served as an indicator for the positive impact I did or didn’t have on global goodness.

(It was a dumb thing to think, maintained by an elaborate network of rationalizations that I thought of as virtuous, much the way many people think of their political “beliefs”/clothes as virtuous. My beliefs were also maintained by not bothering to take an actually careful look either at global catastrophic risks or even at the details of e.g. global poverty. But my impression is that it’s fairly common to just suppose that our intuitive moral self-evaluations (or others’ evaluations of how good of people we are) map tolerably well onto actual good consequences.)

Anyhow: now, it looks to me as though most of those “good people”, living intrinsically worthwhile lives, aren’t contributing squat to global goodness compared to what they could contribute if they spent even a small fraction of their time/money on a serious attempt to shut up and multiply. The network of moral intuitions I grew up in is… not exactly worthless; it does help with intrinsically worthwhile lives, and, more to the point, with the details of how to actually build the kinds of reasonable human relationships that you need for parts of the “shut up and multiply”-motivated efforts to work… but, for most people, it’s basically not very connected to how much good they do or don’t do in the world. If you like, this is good news: for a ridiculously small sum of effort (e.g., a $500 donation to SIAI; the earning power of seven ten-thousandths of your life if you earn the US minimum wage), you can do more expected-good than perhaps 99.9% of Earth’s population. (You may be able to do still more expected-good by taking that time and thinking carefully about what most impacts global goodness and whether anyone’s doing it.)>>

https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/4pov2tL6SEC23wrkq/epilogue-atonement-8-8

like opposing this isnt self-denying moral aestheticism or a signalling game of how good you can look (credibly signalling virtue is actually a good thing, i wish more people did it by for instance demonstrating how they win in a way that wouldnt work if they werent aligned. whose power seeded from their alignment.). its like... the alternative where people do things that it makes no sense for an altruist to do and then say that when they go to their day jobs they are super duper altruistic they swear; compartmentalizing in this way ...doesnt actually work.

people who want to obscure what altruism looks like will claim that this is moving around a social schelling point for who is to be ostracized. and that altruism as a characteristic of a brain isnt a cluster-in-reality that you can talk about. because it will be coopted by malicious actors as a laser to unjustly zap people with. these people are wrong.

both EA and CFAR are premised on some sort of CDT modular morality working. it is actually pretending to do CDT optimization because like with brent at each timestep they are pretending to think "how can we optimize utility moving forward?" (really i suspect they are just straight up mindcontrolled by brent, finding ways to serve their master because they used force and the people at CFAR were bad at decision theory) instead of seeking to be agents such that brent when brents plans to predate on people ran through them, he would model it as more trouble than it was worth and wouldnt do this in the first place.

CFAR and EA will do things like allowing someone to predate on women because they are "insightful" or creating a social reality where people with genetic biases who personally devote massive amounts of time and money to babies who happen to be genetically related to them and then in their day job act "altruistically". as long as it all adds up to net positive, its okay right?

but thats not how it works and structures built off of this are utterly insufficient to bring eutopia to sentient life. in just the same way that "scientists" who when they arent at their day jobs are theists are an utterly insufficient to bring eutopia to sentient life.

<<Maybe we can beat the proverb—be rational in our personal lives, not just our professional lives. We shouldn’t let a mere proverb stop us: “A witty saying proves nothing,” as Voltaire said. Maybe we can do better, if we study enough probability theory to know why the rules work, and enough experimental psychology to see how they apply in real-world cases—if we can learn to look at the water. An ambition like that lacks the comfortable modesty of being able to confess that, outside your specialty, you’re no better than anyone else. But if our theories of rationality don’t generalize to everyday life, we’re doing something wrong. It’s not a different universe inside and outside the laboratory.>>

to save the world it doesnt help to castrate yourself and make extra super sure not to have babies. people's values are already what they are, their choices have already been made. these sort of ad-hoc patches are what wrangling an unaligned agent looks like. and the output of an unaligned agent with a bunch of patches, isnt worth much. would you delegate important tasks to an unaligned AI that was patched up after each time it gave a bad output?

it does mean that if after they know about the world and what they can do, people still say that they specifically should have babies, i mark them as having a kind of damage and route around them.

someone not having babies doesnt automatically mark them as someone id pour optimization energy into expecting it to combine towards good ends. the metrics i use are cryptographically secure from being goodharted. so i can talk openly about traits i use to discern between people without worrying about people reading about this and using it to gum up my epistemics.

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teacupfulofstarshine · 6 years ago

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but for just one day let’s only think about love

(a gift for my darling wife @notveryglittery!!! you mentioned wanting more fluff, and i have delivered! i hope you enjoy it, princess!)

summary: it's the eve of their big day, and roman and patton want everything to be perfect. luckily, they've got their best friends in the world helping make sure everything goes smoothly - and who could ask for better friends? (OR: an absurdly fluffy royality wedding fic written for my lovely wife dani!)

pairings: romantic royality, background romantic analogical

word count: ~5759

(cw: the briefest anxiety in the beginning, tooth-rotting fluff)

read it on ao3!

“Why did I let you talk me into wearing a white tuxedo?!”

Roman drapes himself over Logan’s couch, knocking his best friend’s newspaper out of his hands as he flops into his lap. Logan stares at him, unimpressed.

“I did not talk you into anything. On the contrary, I attempted to tell you that wearing a white tuxedo was a terrible idea.”

“Why didn’t I listen to you?!” “I have been asking myself that question since you met me. However, the reason you gave me for your current misstep was, and I quote.” Logan presses the back of his hand to his forehead and drapes himself against the back of the couch. “I have to wear a white tuxedo!” he gasps, imitating Roman’s voice and mannerisms to a truly creepy degree. “Only a white tuxedo will offset my perfect golden tan and make me appear to glow when the sunlight strikes me just so! And since Patton always calls me his sunbeam, it seems only fitting that I should be truly radiant for our wedding day! Though not as radiant as Patton of course - ah, my lovely fiancé! How have I gone more than six whole seconds without mentioning -”

“Alright, alright, I get it!” Roman grouses, shoving at Logan’s chest to make him stop. Logan sits up, adjusts his tie, and leans over Roman to get his newspaper off the ground. Rather than reading it, however, he folds it neatly.

“What is this really about, Roman?” “I’m regretting my fashion choices, Logan! Obviously, I -”

“Roman, be honest with me. It is not the suit which troubles you, is it?”

Roman sits up, clasping his hands together and leaning forward. He looks at Logan, dark chocolate eyes hidden behind his bangs. “It’s that obvious, huh?”

“Not to the average eye, perhaps. But we have known each other since we were approximately fourteen months old, Roman. There is very little that you can hide from me.”

“Geez, Lo, don’t I have any secrets?” Roman jokes. Logan rests a hand on his knee.

“Of course you do, Roman. But your insecurities, your . . . your fears should not be something that you attempt to hide, from yourself or from me. Please do not misunderstand me - I am not attempting to pry into your life.”

Roman quirks a half-smile. “I know, Lo. I know you’re just worried.”

“Tell me, then. What is troubling you? You . . . you are not getting the proverbial ‘cold feet’ about your impending nuptials, are you?”

“No! No, no, I absolutely don’t regret accepting Pat’s proposal! I - I love him, Logan. I love him so much, he . . .” Roman twists his engagement ring around his finger. “Patton is the best and brightest thing in my life. He genuinely loves everyone and everything so much, and he’s so kind and - and -”

“I understand,” Logan says. “I did not think that was the case, but it was necessary to eliminate it from the realm of -”

“What if it’s fucked up?”

Logan blinks. “I . . . I do not understand. Could you please expand on that statement?”

“I love Patton so much, Logan. You don’t even understand, I - I could live without food, without water, without oxygen, without anything as long as I had Patton with me. He’s so important to me and - and I just - what if something goes wrong tomorrow? What if there’s a hurricane? What if Emile loses his voice? What if someone drops my suit in a vat of grape juice, what if Virgil’s shop catches on fire and Patton’s dress is destroyed, what if Virgil ends up in the hospital, what if Patton doesn’t want to marry me, what if he stands me up at the altar, what if -”

“Roman!” Logan says. He shifts his hand from Roman’s knee to holding Roman’s hands, which have begun to grip painfully at his hair. “You are engaging in cognitive distortions which are sending you into a spiralling panic attack. Look at me, Ro - it will be alright. I am going to count for you.”

Logan’s voice is quiet and measured, breaths even and steady as he counts. He looks at Roman, who does his best to maintain eye contact. “That’s it, Roman. Take deep breaths. We are optimizing your oxygen circulation in an attempt to engage your parasympathetic nervous system. The process of counting out your breaths will -”

“Thanks, nerd,” Roman rasps softly. Logan smiles, squeezing his hands.

“Of course, prep.”

“I’m not - it’s not that I don’t want to marry him, Logan. It’s the exact opposite - I want to marry him so much that I’m terrified by the prospect of the wedding being anything less than perfect.”

“Realistically, nothing can truly be perfect,” Logan says. “Much of what exists in this world is inherently flawed -”

“Thanks, Lo, that makes me feel worlds better.”

“I was not finished. Much of what exists in this world is inherently flawed, and therefore striving for perfection is unrealistic. However, this does not mean that we cannot strive for excellence. I may not be able to guarantee a perfect wedding, but I can guarantee that I will do everything in my power to make sure that it goes as smoothly as possible. You are my best friend, Roman, and I will be here to support you in every capacity that I can.”

Roman laughs, once, before lurching forward and throwing his arms around Logan’s neck. Logan, knowing Roman better than perhaps Roman himself, has already braced himself for impact, catching Roman and holding him. One hand slides up to scratch the curls at the nape of Roman’s neck while the other rubs Roman’s back in broad, firm strokes. These are the motions that have been proven to be the most soothing when Roman gets like this.

“Thank you, Lo,” Roman whispers, and his voice is so choked that if he were speaking to anyone other than Logan, he would be completely unintelligible. “This - I - you - you’re my best friend, you know that, right?”

“Yes, Roman,” Logan teases. “I had assumed that was why you asked me to be your best man.”

Roman makes an indignant squawking noise. “You are my best friend, too, you know.” He feels Roman nuzzle just a little into his neck.

“Love you, Lo.”

“I love you, too, Roman. If it will make you feel better . . . I have made an Excel spreadsheet to deal with potential outcomes.”

Roman pulls away from him, snorting in laughter. “Of course you did.”

“If you do not want it -”

Roman wipes his eyes, giggling. “Don’t be stupid, I know how many hours you must have poured into that. Let’s see it, then.”

Logan can’t help grinning as he picks up his laptop. “It’s color-coded.”

“Of course it is. I’d expect nothing less from you.”

*~*~*~*~*

“Patton, I swear to whatever deity exists out there in the great unending cosmos of the universe, if you stand up from that chair one more time, I am going to yeet my fucking pincushion under your ass.”

Patton, who’d been halfway out of his chair, promptly drops back down into it, giggling nervously. “Sorry, Virge, I just -”

“You’re nervous about this dress because it needs to go well. I know.” Virgil pokes their head out from behind the folding screen where they’re working on Patton’s wedding dress. “You do trust me to know what I’m doing, right?”

“Of course I do, Virgil! There’s a reason we’re partners in Fabricadabra!”

“I still regret letting you name it that.” Virgil ducks back behind the screen, muttering to themself. Patton can only see the vaguest shadowy outline of them moving around the mannequin on which his secret wedding dress rests.

“You’re just as good a seamster as I am, Virge, I trust you to work on all of our orders! It’s just that - that you’ve never hidden something you’ve made from me before.” Patton looks at the floor, wringing his fingers together. “I know you want it to be a surprise and all that, but I get married tomorrow!”

“I know, Pats. I’m not, like, working on the seams or anything! I’m just doing finishing touches! I don’t want you to see it before it’s completely done because I want you to have the experience, tm.”

“Did - did you just say the letters ‘TM’ out loud?” Patton giggles.

“Absolutely I did, it was for the fucking -”

“Language!”

“ - freaking emphasis. This dress is the most gorgeous thing I have ever created in my life. This dress has been labored over - SLAVED over - for months. This dress contains my blood! My sweat! My tears! My -”

“Virgil!”

“Sorry, Pat, but you get my point! This dress is the most important thing I’ve ever created. It’s my best friend’s wedding dress. I want it to be perfect when you see it for the first time. I want you to see it in all its glory - I want you to see it perfect.”

“Virge, honey, you know I’m gonna love it no matter what! It doesn’t have to be a Dior gown, it’s going to be special to me because you made it! My best friend, my partner in business and in crime, my best - human!”

Virgil pokes their head back out, arching a perfectly done eyebrow. “Did you just call me your best human?”

“Well, yeah! I didn’t wanna call you my best man, cause you’re not a man, I -”

“Bold of you to assume I’m human, Patton.”

Patton laughs. “Does ‘best enby’ work, then?”

“You are too much sometimes,” Virgil chuckles, shaking their head as they duck back behind the folding screen. “You can call me whatever your gay little heart desires as long as it’s not ‘maid of honor’, Pat. I’m really not that picky.”

Virgil falls silent for a few more minutes. Their shadow moves more rapidly around the mannequin, and they alternate between muttering to themself and humming to themself. Patton recognizes about half of the songs they’re humming, and tries to sing along where he can.

“Patton, I love you, but you are so far off key you might actually be in another one.” Patton rubs the back of his head in embarrassment, fiddling with the fraying lace hemming his skirt. “Shouldn’t be much longer, just finishing up a little bit on the sleeves and the neckline.”

“How much overtime did you pull to finish this, Virgil? Have you been sleeping properly? Eating enough? Drinking enough water?”

“I have consumed the life liquid, yes.”

“Virgil!”

Virgil’s head pokes out again. Patton squints, leaning forward to see how much makeup is covering the dark circles that normally reside beneath their eyes. “Pat, I’m not gonna lie to you. I’ve pulled a couple all-nighters. But I’ve done my best to avoid them, and I have timers set on my phone to make sure I eat and drink water on a regular basis. I’m practicing self-care.”

“I’m proud of you, kiddo,” Patton says softly.

“I know, Pat. I just hope you’re proud of my work, too.”

“Virgil, whatever this dress looks like, I promise it’s going to be wonderful. You know why?”

“Why?”

“Because you made it for me! And I know how hard you work and how detail-oriented you are and how super good at your job you are! I know you worry a lot about how good your stuff is, but I know it’s amazing!”

“Pat, stop, you’re gonna make me blush too hard for my foundation to cover.” “Why would you wanna cover up your blush, Virge?”

“I have an image to maintain! I am a cold and emotionless void!”

“You’re the cutest little gender-non-conforming void spawn I’ve ever seen!”

Virgil sticks their face out, cheeks and ears a bright rosy pink. “Patton, you are ruining my image right now.” Patton smiles unapologetically. “Come see your damn wedding dress already.”

“Language, kiddo, I - you’re serious?! It’s done, I can come see it now?!”

“Well, it’s as good as I’m gonna get it, so you might as well come look. Plus, I need you to try it on before the wedding to make sure you’re completely happy with it.” Patton almost trips over his own feet in his rush to get out of the chair as Virgil pushes the folding screen aside. All the air in Patton’s lungs leaves it in a single rush of breath.

“Well? You gotta tell me if you like it or not, Patty, I - Patton?” Patton’s eyes are brimming with tears, hands pressed over his mouth as he stares at the dress. The bodice is gold, with flowy, see-through sleeves of thin, delicate lace. There’s intricate needlepoint along the neckline and the waistline, with delicate floral embroidery on the bodice itself. The skirt is full and flowing, a gradation of blues. It’s so light it’s almost white at the waist, flowing into dark midnight blue at the hem, and the train is embroidered with stars and flowers. The layers of the skirt are varying colors of blue and white, and Patton is starstruck.

“You . . . th-this . . . Virgil, I . . . I . . .”

“Do you not like it? It’s too late to make, like, major changes, but I could theoretically change the - whoa!”

Patton throws himself at Virgil, sobbing openly and pressing soft kisses to their hair and cheek. “Oh, Virgil, it’s perfect!”

“You - r-really? You - you don’t think there’s anything wr-wrong with it?”

“The only thing wrong with it is that you think there’s something wrong with it! Virgil, it’s perfect, it’s everything I could ever want in a wedding dress! I couldn’t have done a better job if I’d designed it myself!”

“Yeah, there was no way in hell I was letting you design and make your own wedding dress, Pat. That would just be cruel.”

Patton hugs Virgil’s skinny little frame close to him, shaking with happy tears and soaking the sleeve of their hoodie. “Virgil, I could not have asked for a better wedding dress. Or a better wedding dress designer. I love it so much, I love you so much, I -”

“Yeah, yeah, I know, I love you, too,” Virgil grumbles. They still kiss the top of his head before pushing Patton away. “Come on, Pats, you gotta try on this thing so I can make last minute alterations. With any luck, you’re only gonna get married once, so let’s go!”

*~*~*~*~*

“Where did you learn to tie a tie, the sandbox?”

Roman looks helplessly at Logan, red silk tie tangled around his hands and fingers. “That - Lo, what does that even mean?” Logan laughs, leaning against the doorframe. He’s already dressed in a tailored black suit, dark blue tie knotted snugly beneath his throat, hair neatly slicked back.

“It means that you are attempting to knot your tie with the skill and grace of a five year old in a sandbox. Was that not clear?”

“No, it wasn’t, Lo,” Roman grouses, standing up. Logan takes in his appearance - half-tucked-in shirt, unbuttoned vest, tie loosely slung around his shoulders. “But I appreciate it.”

“Roman, come here. Let me help you, alright? You’re going to look great.”

Roman tucks his shirt in and buttons his vest, letting Logan straighten and smooth his suit before taking the tie in his hands and beginning to tie it. “It still amuses me that you cannot tie one of these properly, Roman.”

“Hey! For all you know, I am the god of tie knots. I just pretend I don’t know what I’m doing so that you’ll keep tying them for me because I know how happy it makes you.” Logan smirks as he knots the tie, carefully adjusting Roman’s collar to make sure it lays flat over his tie.

“I would be inclined to believe you, but I know for a fact that you spent fifteen minutes prior to my arrival here standing in front of the mirror flailing that tie around pretending to be Amethyst.”

“Rude!” Roman screeches.

“Why? I am correct, am I not?”

“You’re right, but you shouldn’t say it!”

“On the contrary,” Logan says, “I am correct, and therefore I absolutely should say it.” He pulls his hands away from Roman’s neck, smoothing the lapels of his tuxedo jacket down neatly. “You may inspect my handiwork now, although I daresay you will find no fault with my knot. And even if you do, I can rest secure in the knowledge that it is infinitely better than anything you could manage.”

“Yeah, yeah, you’re the most intelligent being that has ever lived, we get it,” Roman says breathlessly, staring at himself in the mirror. “I . . . th-this is really happening, isn’t it?”

“Yes, Roman. It really is. You are going to marry Patton today, and it is all going to be perfect.”

Roman’s hair is curled, falling neatly around his face in soft waves and ringlets that perfectly frame his eyes. Despite his penchant for dramatics, his makeup today is remarkably subtle. His eyelashes are darker and slightly curled, with minimal glitter on his eyes and cheeks. The boldest thing about his face is his bright red lipstick, perfectly matching his red silk tie.

“You look amazing,” Logan says. “I am proud to stand at your side as your best man.”

“Thanks, Lo,” Roman says, tipping his head back to knock gently against Logan’s shoulder. “But you can’t do that - not yet, anyway.”

“What? Why?”

“Because you’re not wearing any makeup.”

“Roman. There is a lifetime ban on you putting any sort of products on my face. You know this. Need I bring up -”

“Lo, please? I promise I won’t do anything too dramatic, and it’s not that I think you look ugly without it I just think it would complete the look! Please, please let me do this? For my big day?”

He bats his definitely-mascara’d eyelashes, and Logan sighs. “I reserve the right to veto the look if I think it is too ‘out there’, Roman.”

“Oh, thank you thank you thank you! You won’t regret it, I promise!”

Twenty minutes later, Logan is blinking at his reflection in the mirror to clear the phosphenes from Roman furiously blotting foundation against his face. True to his word, Roman has not done anything too dramatic - Logan recognizes minimal contouring on his cheeks, shimmery silver eyeshadow, the barest trace of eyeliner. He looks . . . he looks good.

“Do you like it?” Roman worries. “I can take it off if it’s too much, I -”

“Roman, I - it is - satisfactory,” Logan cuts him off, trying not to sound choked up.

“Damn it, Lo! You’re gonna make me cry with all your compliments, and if my mascara runs I’ll kill you I swear to God.”

“With your penchant for crying at emotional situations, I’m impressed that you think you’re getting through this wedding without wearing waterproof mascara.”

*~*~*~*~*

“Patton, if you don’t stop moving I’m gonna take your eye out with the mascara wand!”

“It’s rude to threaten someone on their wedding day,” Patton giggles. “It’s not a threat!” Virgil snaps. “You’re so damn ticklish and fidgety that I’m gonna end up accidentally stabbing your eye out! And then Roman’s gonna kill me to defend your honor and Logan’s gonna help because he’s been Roman’s friend longer than he’s been my boyfriend and -”

“Virgil! Calm down!” Patton says. He gently takes their hands, careful not to let the mascara smudge on his gloves. “I’m sorry, I’ll sit stiller. More still? I’ll fidget less, I promise.”

“Do you not trust me to make you look good?” Virgil asks, in a small voice.

“Oh, sweetheart, of course I do! Just look at you!” Patton gestures to the beauty-guru level makeup on Virgil’s face, from their silvery-purple-black eyeshadow to their dark purple lipstick to the way their cheekbones shine just a little more than the rest of their face. “You’re the best makeup person I know! But don’t tell Ro I said that, okay?”

“Don’t worry, Pat, I know better than to injure Princey’s precious ego. The last time I did that he pouted around for a whole week until I apologized. Not that I meant it - I was right the first time.”

“Hey, be nice,” Patton warns. Virgil shrugs, quirking a smile.

“Sorry, Pat. I know how much Princey means to you. If it makes you feel better, I don’t hate him like I did when we first met. Him not being a dick about my pronouns helped.”

“I told you he wouldn’t have a problem.”

“I know you did, Pat. Now hold still. Emile’s gonna be here to pick us up at any minute, and you need to be ready.”

Patton lets go of Virgil’s hands and obeys, letting them work their magic on his face. He doesn’t see the point in wearing excessive makeup every day the way Virgil does; he likes having his freckles on full display, and he doesn’t mind showing the occasional acne scar or blemish. But Roman had mentioned wearing makeup on their wedding day, and he hadn’t said that Patton had to but he thinks he would feel weird if Roman had makeup on and he didn’t.

Plus, Virgil really likes doing makeup, and they’ve apparently been planning what they’d do for his wedding for years now. Patton would hate to let all that work go to waste.

“Don’t worry, I’ll be done soon,” Virgil says, gently dabbing at Patton’s face. “If Emile gets here before I’m done, he can just wait.”

“I don’t want to make him wait too long!” Patton argues. “He’s doing us a huge favor by agreeing to officiate the wedding!”

“Please, Pat, you didn’t even have to pay Emi. He just loves weddings. He’s a loser like that.”

“Don’t you like them too, Virge?”

“I will admit that over my dead body, and I am denying any candor in your statements,” Virgil says, smooth and practiced. “Now blink onto my finger, I’m almost done.”

Emile shows up right as Virgil is preparing to put Patton’s lip gloss on. “Virgie! How’s my favorite twin?”

“I am your only twin, Emile, and I hate that nickname,” they grouse.

“Oh, look at you! You look so pretty!” Emile coos. Patton is inclined to agree; Virgil is wearing a silver button-down with a black vest, and a tie the same rich purple as their flowing knee-length skirt. Tall black boots lace up to just beneath their knees, and they have flowers matching the ones in Patton’s bouquet woven into their French-braided hair.

“Thanks, Emi. You look . . . adequate.”

“Oh, Virgil! That’s the nicest thing you’ve ever said to me!” Emile squeals, twirling around to show off the flaring of their pleated pink dress. “You’re doing such a good job with Patton’s face! Did you paint his nails, too?”

“Well, someone had to do it,” Virgil grouses, but based on their tone Patton knows that they’re pleased with their twin’s praises, smiling shyly as they focus on carefully applying his lipgloss. “Pat, smack your lips together, and then you’re just about ready to look in the mirror.”

Patton does as he’s told, looking down at his feet. His toenails are painted a bright, cheerful yellow, and he wiggles his toes where they poke out of his sandals. Virgil’s intricate wedding dress fits him perfectly, and beneath his gloves his fingernails are painted sky blue with swirling red-and-gold designs. Finally, he looks up into the mirror propped on the nearby table and sees Virgil’s makeup.

“Oh, Virgil,” he whispers, putting his glasses on and seeing his face in sharp, striking clarity. “I don’t care what you said about the dress, I’m paying you extra for this.”

“Pat, you don’t have to -”

“It’s happening, Virgil, whether you like it or not,” Patton sniffles, and then he’s hugging Virgil tightly.

“Hey - careful, Pat, your makeup hasn’t set yet! And you’re gonna wrinkle our clothes, and -”

“Shut up and take my love, Virgil.”

“Y-yeah, okay . . .”

It takes Emile another seven minutes to shepherd them out the door and into the car, but Patton catches the secret proud smile gleaming on Virgil’s face as they help him get his train into the car.

*~*~*~*~*

The church where they’re getting married is small. The wooden beams bracing the ceiling arc like the beams in the hull of a ship; when they’d first inspected the venue, Logan had gone on some sort of tangent about the historical and symbolic significance of the beams. Roman hadn’t bothered listening, too busy whispering and giggling with Patton and looking at all of the mosaics and stained glass and gilded paintings.

Now, standing at the altar, Emile at his side and Logan at his back, he tilts his head up, up, up to look at the ceiling. Dimly, he remembers Logan’s voice saying, “It is meant to represent the hull of the ark, the ship that supposedly carried two of every animal to safety during the Great Flood of the Christian mythos. The thought in designing the church to mimic this boat is that it will carry the members of its congregation safely to heaven.”

Privately, Roman hopes that this marriage will carry his and Patton’s relationship through the rest of their lives. He knows the divorce rate in America, he knows how likely it is that the average marriage won’t work out. But he refuses to let himself go down that road. He loves Patton, and Patton loves him. They’ve discussed their future a million and one times - he knows how committed he is to making this work. This is going to be the start of the rest of their lives.

His cousin Thomas is up in the choir loft, gently cracking his fingers and running them lightly over the gleaming keys of the organ. Roman can see Virgil waiting in the first pew, gazes out across the sea of faces belonging to his and Patton’s friends and families. Thomas looks down at him from the choir loft and cocks his head to the side, asking if it’s time. Roman looks down the aisle and sees two silhouettes waiting behind the opaque glass doors, glances up to Thomas, and nods. Thomas begins to play, letting a few instrumental bars pass by before he starts singing, voice rich and strong.

The door opens, and Roman loses all the breath in his lungs in one swift, silent rush.

Patton walks down the aisle slowly, timing his footfalls perfectly with the beats of the song. There’s a shimmery veil over his face, held in place by a glimmering silver tiara with sparkling gemstone flowers. Roman hasn’t even seen his face yet, and already he knows Patton is gorgeous.

The dress is stunning; he can see Virgil beaming, and he makes a mental note to slip a hundred dollars into their pocket before the night is over. He knows exactly how hard they’ve been working on this secret project, and how long they’ve been working on it, too. He’s seen Virgil’s handiwork, of course, wears their neat, precise stitches in a lot of his clothing. But that’s mostly minor tweaks - hemming pants here, fixing a torn sleeve there. This is the first time he’s seen one of Virgil’s original creations.

If this dress doesn’t get them catapulted to center stage of New York fashion week, Roman is going to sue the entire fashion industry.

The top is all delicate lace and intricate embroidery, clever flower patterns and flowy sleeves. But it’s the lower half that’s drawing gasps and exclamations from the wedding guests. There’s a pure white ribbon wrapped around Patton’s waist, tied neatly in a bow behind him. The skirt starts off pure white, but as it descends it becomes pale blue, growing deeper and darker and fuller and richer as it heads toward the floor. The train is a midnight blue, so dark it’s almost black, with shimmering stars and flowers sewn in. It’s only because Roman knows Patton asked for one that he knows what he’s looking for, but he finds it quickly - the train is detachable. Patton hadn’t wanted to change into a separate outfit for the reception, but he couldn’t very well dance with a full train behind him.

Virgil really is the cleverest designer that Roman’s ever met.

Patton reaches the altar right as the song crescendos to its climax, and Virgil carefully slips up to stand behind him. His beloved’s face is obscured by the veil, but Roman can tell that Patton’s wearing makeup. Virgil probably did that, too.

Roman owes them so much money.

“Dearly beloved,” Emile starts, practically bouncing in place, “do you how do?” His characteristic greeting draws confused murmurs and whispers from the gathered crowd. Roman can hear Virgil’s palm smack against their face without even looking at them.

The ceremony flies by like lightning, but it feels like forever until Emile is stepping back and they’re putting the rings on each other’s hands, saying their vows. Roman pulls Patton’s glove off, smiling softly to himself when he sees the designs on his nails. He takes the ring Logan offers him and carefully slides it onto Patton’s ring finger.

“Patton,” he says. “I - I wrote this whole big speech, and I even had Logan proofread it for me to make sure it was grammatically correct, but . . . but standing here now, looking you in the eyes - well, as best as I can, anyway -” Patton laughs softly, and some of Roman’s nerves dissipate.

“I agonized over the right way to do these vows for so long, and now that we’re here, now that we’re doing this I - I don’t think it matters as much. I’ll let you read the sappy speech later, but - but right now, all that matters is that we’re here, that we’re together. I love you, Patton, and I don’t care who knows it, but I also really want everyone here to know it.”

More laughter, from everyone else this time. “You are the sun in my sky, the light of my life, the reason I want to keep being the best version of myself. I don’t know if I believe in the concept of people who are fated to be together, but if I did, I know for a fact that I would be fated to be with you. And even if I wasn’t, I would choose to be with you. I - I would always choose you.”

Patton squeezes his hand, and then he’s taking a ring from Virgil’s hands and carefully sliding it onto Roman’s finger. “Roman, my sunbeam, the day that I met you used to be the best day of my life. Whenever I was feeling sad or alone, I would think back to that day and I would remember that you were out there, somewhere, even if you weren’t with me at that exact second. And I would think about the light in your eyes when you look at me, and the way you smile right before you kiss me, and the way you take those few extra seconds to make sure our fingers are perfectly laced together. Those memories always made me feel warm and happy, like I was standing in the summer sunshine. But that’s not the best day of my life anymore.”

Roman blinks in confusion, but Patton keeps talking. “The best day of my life will always be this day, when I look you in the eyes. And I’ll choose you, and you’ll choose me, and we’ll keep choosing each other for the rest of our lives. Sorry I kinda stole the last bit of your vows, honey, but what can I say? You’ve always been the creative one between us.”

There are mixed smatterings of laughter echoing in Roman’s ears, but all he can focus on is the fire in his cheeks and ears and the water in his eyes. “Pat, my makeup is gonna run,” he whispers.

“Logan didn’t make you wear waterproof mascara?” Patton asks, but Roman can tell he’s smirking beneath the veil. “Virgil made me.”

“I told him to,” Logan whispers. Roman considers kicking him, but he gets distracted by Emile’s voice. The ceremony continues on, with Roman and Patton holding each other’s hands tightly. Roman tilts their hands slightly, marvelling at the way the multicolored sunlight streaming through the stained glass glints off their wedding bands.

“You may lift the veil now,” Emile says gently. Roman squeezes Patton’s hands once before letting go and tenderly taking the lacy edges of the veil. He rubs the soft material between his thumb and index finger before carefully lifting the veil and flipping it over Patton’s head to reveal his face.

If he still had breath in his lungs, Patton’s face would steal it from him. His cheeks are glowing and rosy, and his eyes are perfectly framed with dark lashes and subtle eyeliner that brings out his irises. He has golden-red eyeshadow artfully painted on his upper lids, and his lips are a beautiful soft shiny pink. His mouth is slightly open, and Roman just wants to lean in and press kisses against it over and over and over again.

“By the power vested in me by the state of Pennsylvania, I now declare you husband and husband! You may now kiss the groom!”

Roman gently cups Patton’s face, careful not to smudge or smear Virgil’s beautiful makeup job. He gently swipes his thumbs over Patton’s cheeks, right beneath eyes that shimmer with tears. “Hello, husband,” he murmurs, leaning down to brush their noses together. Patton pushes himself up on his tip-toes and presses their mouths together, cupping Roman’s face in return. On one cheek, he feels the softness of Patton’s glove, and on the other he feels the cool metal of Patton’s wedding ring.

His arms slide down to wrap around Patton’s waist and brace his back as he dips him, keeping their lips pressed together as wedding bells begin to ring and the congregation erupts into thunderous applause. He’s kissed Patton a hundred, a thousand, a million times, but this is the first time he’s kissed his husband, and the searing fire in his lips and butterflies in his stomach are fresh as the very first time he’d ever kissed Patton.

Somehow, he prefers this kiss to the time Logan had slapped him a high-five while they kissed.

(Later, at the wedding reception, Patton turns his back to the crowd and throws his bouquet of flowers. When he and Roman turn around, Virgil is holding the bouquet, and Logan is fidgeting awkwardly.

“Would now be an inopportune time to propose?” he asks.

“YES, because this is MY WEDDING DAY!” Roman screeches, even as Virgil shakes their head and furiously pulls Logan in for a kiss.)

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eponymous-rose · 6 years ago

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Talks Machina Highlights - Critical Role C2E52 (Feb. 26, 2019)

There’s a lot to unpack here.

This week’s guests are Laura Bailey and Liam O’Brien!

Announcements:

Travis Willingham’s Yeehaw Game Ranch debuted today on CR’s Twitch channel! Travis and Brian will be livestreaming every other week at 4 PM Pacific (alternating with MAME Drop). Today’s episode will go up on YouTube on Thursday. On Monday, March 4, the Kickstarter for the VM cartoon will go live! They’ve been talking about this almost since the start. This episode of TM will be uploaded to YT on Thursday morning, and will be available on a one-week delay in podcast form!

The cowboy hat makes the rounds. Laura points out that she was actually in an episode of Walker, Texas Ranger.

Okay, on to episode 52: Feral Business. (Liam, just as the splash screen comes up: “That means masturbating.”)

Laura: “I think everybody should refer to their penis as a tiefling. Anyway, continue.”

There’s a discussion about classes for said tieflings. It gets a little out of hand.

Stats! Jester got her 5th HDYWTDT of the campaign against the shoosuva. Caleb has now dealt over 1,400 points of damage. (Liam: “Really?”) Frumpkin got his first natural 20 to perceive the rats and shoosuva.

Laura and Liam have a heated negotiation about who gets to cuddle the Jester and Kiri plushies.

100% of the out-of-character motivation for the Disguise Self was just Liam missing being Laura’s twin. Liam: “You know, I like to have fun in my D&D games.” They enjoyed getting to sit next to each other again at the live show.

Brian: “What were you gossiping about?” Liam: “Your tiefling.” Laura: “Specifically yours.”

Jester’s view on Caleb hasn’t changed since his backstory reveal. Laura: “I feel like it makes more sense that he’s more standoffish, and it made me feel much more guilty for the times I gave him shit for being muddy and stinky and stuff.” She points out that Jester got to see a lot of different types of people pass through, not to mention listen in on their conversations, and probably has a broader experience with a variety of people than some might expect.

Liam talks about how Xhorhas is “rough, and the customs are different, but it’s a real place” and not the bogeyman often presented to the Empire.

He objects to a question talking about how Caleb’s planning to take down people in the Empire, pointing out that he’s never confirmed that. Laura immediately concocts a theory about Caleb being a top-secret spy for the Empire.

Laura: “Jester has no idea that her charisma isn’t as high as... Beau’s or... is Beau’s very high?” She loved leading a diplomatic conversation, and didn’t know how it would turn out, but she feels like she killed it.

Snoozy Henry!

Liam: “Caleb’s not scared of being manipulated. I think that’s done.” It feels off being away from the Empire, not because he still feels loyalty, but mainly because everything that matters to him is still there.

Another round of dick jokes comes to a climax (sorry) with “Cocks Machina”.

Gif of the Week! Jester learning the ways of the goth.

If the opportunity presents itself, even in Xhorhas, Jester will 100% pull a prank and try to spread the word of the Traveler. “Nothing is sacred to Jester!”

Laura mentions that she has no backup character planned if Jester dies; she feels like having a backup will make her more likely to accept the possibility of losing Jester.

Jester doesn’t really care about the Empire vs. Krynn conflict. “Political bullshit. I don’t think the Krynn are necessarily evil, but I don’t know.” Liam points out that nobody really knows the motivations behind the conflict in the first place. Caleb mainly sees it as a big mess. “Caleb will still have emotional ties to where he was born and raised, but he knows they’re flawed and awful. They’re really terrible people.”

Laura’s theory: “The Empire stole a lot of artifacts. They stole the dodecahedron. The Krynn just want it back. And now we have it. And we’re fucking everything up.”

Big Tiefling Energy.

Jester on tattoos: “Nah, I’m not afraid of the pain! I can take it! I’m really strong!” She’d totally get a tattoo if the right idea came along.

Caleb isn’t too concerned about the group getting sidetracked, since he doesn’t really have “an agenda for where he wants to go”. He wouldn’t want to do something boring, but that’s not exactly a worry with this group. “They keep going to places with things he’s interested in.”

Laura on Jester’s changing dynamic with Nott: “It’s interesting to find out that Nott’s a mom. She knows what that relationship means, and she is just devastated for Nott that she can’t be with her son.” What seemed the worst was that she didn’t have someone who thinks of her the way Jester thinks of her mom. “I thought about so many times just her not taking a bath. It just makes me so sad.”

Fan Art of the Week! A giant city-tortoise.

Liam: “Man, get a load of Brian’s kenku.” Dani: “This has to stop.”

What the heck does “consecuted” mean? Laura: “I think it means something about being reborn.” Liam: “Yeah, reincarnation.”

Liam on potentially picking the wrong spells: “I don’t worry that I will. I just know that I will.” Marisha warned him.

Brian asks Laura about where her vote’s hovering in the vote for DnD Beyond’s president. Laura: “I feel like Liam has a stronger platform.” Liam: “Is that a dick joke?” Laura: “I’m sitting next to Liam. So Liam.”

Dani: “Contractually, as Sam’s campaign manager, I have to vote for Sam. But he’s also not paying me, so I’m just saying, Liam, if you paid me, I could maybe switch sides. Look, I’m working for exposure only, and I’m feeling very exposed.” Liam: “Listen, my shell corporation will talk to your shell corporation after the show.”

Jester’s not too worried about the group being disrespectful by hanging onto the dodecahedron. “It’s a powerful thing! Look at it! We can play with it!” Liam: “Yeah, it’s not her god.”

Liam: “I miss playing twins.” Laura: “I do too, buddy.”

Henry is moved to the couch when Liam starts literally curling up on the floor to be closer to him:

Jester would create a Magical Viagra spell. Dani: “Like the Wand of Smiles, but for dicks!” Laura: “The point of it would be to just make people feel awkward.”

On Jester checking on Fjord’s tusks: “It’s important to her that he appreciates himself as much as others appreciate him.”

Liam: “My character will probably die soon anyway.” Everyone: “LIAM O’BRIEN.”

Laura points out that Jester’s come closer to death than Caleb. “If anyone’s going to die soon, it’s me.” Brian: “Stop it! Stop!”

Search for Grog Questions (SPOILERS FOLLOW!)

The group played a private home game as Vox Machina for fun recently (”It didn’t make sense, but it was fun!”). Liam was envious of the group getting to play their characters again, so he wanted to play something at least VM-adjacent. He also loves building out the world and wanted to continue fleshing that out. “She saw VM, unbeknownst to them, a couple times.” He also wanted to be able to keep people from dying and “breaking the universe.”

Laura on playing VM again: “It was really crazy, and me and Taliesin gave each other the biggest hug after the show. I missed Percy and I missed that relationship so much!”

Having Lieve’tel around was painful, but Vex “didn’t have the same reaction to it the way Keyleth did. It was bittersweet. I think she appreciated that someone appreciated what her brother did.”

Gilmore and Allura’s voices were big moments of nostalgia. Percy-Vex banter. Scanlan wanting to kill Trinket. (Laura really thought she’d have to leave Trinket behind, and the “I can carry him” killed her.) Scanlan’s singing. Pike! Liam: “Roasting the shit out of Travis.” Laura: “Oh my god.”

#critical role #critical role spoilers #talks machina #talks machina spoilers #long text post

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