#it's like the spn fandom saying destiel shippers hate sam

[jerksbitch]

twitter has poisoned this fandom i fear ... we used to be a community..

[dotthings]

So the creator of Supernatural is now out there saying everything I've been saying about how the show isn't just Sam and Dean, the show has been about their family too, and why it's disheartening that all those characters were absent from the finale due to covid reg cuts. Because the show isn't just the brothers it's about family.

Eric Kripke just acknowledged the wrongness of dumping found family from the series finale and you're laughing.

Every stan who said we were wrong to care about found family on spn and we were crazy to say spn isn't just about the brothers, every stan who tried to gaslight us about the fact that found family was supposed to be part of the finale, and that they belonged there because it would serve the story, every stan who tries to hide and excuse their hate with "because it's about the brothers," every stan who virtue signals about "platonic bonds uwu" but they obviously only care about the 2 brothers and no one else is important so get over it.

Every last one of them just tripped over the series creator and fell on their face. Not like they'll ever acknowledge it or care. But that's what just happened.

This anti found family narrative from certain stan accounts started before Destiel became a major thing, fyi.

I've loved this part of the series since the very beginning, and if you love found family on spn you do wind up with deeply stupid hateful people attacking you and trying to gaslight you about spn and trolling you just for paying attention to the actual show. The whole "hellers are so delusional" trope in fandom where some stans try to pin the problems on ships and shippers? Complete bs on several levels, more than you might think--because they did it to found family, all along, and still do it.

SPN is about Sam and Dean and their family. It's about love in all forms. Anyone saying otherwise missed the point of SPN.

[riverstixxelf]

I love the SPN fandom but honestly it’s so stressful sometimes 😭

For example earlier today I googled “Misha Collins girlfriend” because I heard a rumor that he has a girlfriend, I couldn’t find much besides stuff talking about Vicky so I scrolled down and saw a tumblr post saying something about Misha being attracted to men (which I don’t necessarily disagree with, but I don’t want to tell another person what they are) and women so I clicked on it and it was a huge post (like, a couple paragraphs) talking about some strange things. I don’t remember exactly but at one point the user brought up the “fact” that Misha makes jokes about women and sex?? As in making jokes at the expense of women… and I was like… are we talking about the same Misha here? He DOES make jokes about sex but I don’t recall him ever making jokes at the expense of women. Only thing I can think of is that one story about one of his earlier acting jobs and he didn’t know the “no tongue rule” but that was mostly at the expense of himself. Then I scrolled and found another post that was pretty disturbing…

Someone had screenshotted a regular instagram caption that Jensen posted just talking about how he just got done traveling, he wanted to take a nap, something like that—nothing sexual about the post at all or anything that would suggest that—and someone captioned it with something talking about him and Misha rubbing their [babymakers] together??? I audibly laughed out loud because wtf 😭😭

I don’t want to shame Jenmish shippers (I say Jenmish because Cockles is just a… very interesting name), even though I think it’s the slightest bit strange to be shipping real people… but again I never want to put anyone down for anything because I myself have said some stuff about Jensen and Misha that might suggest something between them.

Another thing is just the amount of hate for various cast members. Mostly the hate I see is for Jared and Misha; J2 fans who hate Misha, Jenmish fans who hate Jared, etc. There’s a lot of love in this fandom but ohmygOD there’s so much hate too. I guess that’s true for any fandom, but it’s so tiring sometimes.

Also, in this fandom, you’ll get hounded for any opinion you have. If you don’t like destiel, you’re homophobic. If you do like destiel, you’re also homophobic for some reason because queer bating or whatever… for the record i’d like to state that I am a proud destiel shipper just fyi. But I see so many people take it to the extreme, make little things into big things or something along those lines. Same thing with cockles shippers I was talking about earlier. I feel like I have a pretty neutral viewpoint on stuff regarding destiel; I see most things how they are, and I make my assumptions based on CANON things. I don’t say “Dean and Cas are definitely fucking”, I say “Dean and Cas love eachother but they cant express it, because Cas wasn’t even sure what love was and Dean’s highest ideal of love is family, which is why he says Cas is like a brother to him”. Now, if you don’t agree with me, guess what… that’s okay! If you don’t think destiel exists, that’s a valid point, and i’m not gonna dox you just because you have a different opinion than me. Because that’s just it, it’s an OPINION.

I could get into Sam haters and Dean haters and stuff… but I’m tired. Actually, you know what, screw it. I WILL GET INTO IT!!!

I’ve had a few experiences with Dean haters especially, and most of the time they just ADORE Sam and thinks he’s done nothing wrong. Let me clarify that I don’t hate Sam- like- at all. Then again, Dean haters who happen to be Sam stans have warped my view on Sam a little, but I won’t let that get in my way of honest judgment.

Sam. has. done. bad. stuff. DEAN. has. done. bad. stuff. Please don’t compare their trauma, they both have their own issues, one isn’t better than the other.

I might be biased because I relate to Dean so much (like a crazy amount it’s not even funny…), but for the millionth time in a row I DO NOT HATE SAM. I saw someone saying how Dean was the cause of almost every single world-ending event that happened in SPN… like honey no. Another person replied to their comment listing all of the world-ending events… and guess what… Sam was the cause of most of them!! Does that make him a hate-worthy character? No!!

I don’t know what point i’m trying to make here. I just think there’s so much in-fighting within the SPN fandom and as much as I love being in the fandom sometimes you just gotta have a break from all the drama. If you made it this far… go outside or something don’t pay attention to me i’m chronically online.

[eisforeidolon]

I feel fans should be able to interpret shows and characters any way they want but it really bothers me that shippers die on the hill of Dean is such a closeted bi sexual and Sam is the biggest heterosexual out there. I love these characters because they are extremely toxic and codependent on each other. The story would not be the same with out that. Why would anyone look to Supernatural to be their all time gay representation love story when it most obviously is not. it just blows my mind how out there Destiel shippers are and how much they truly hate this show and hate Dean without even realizing it. I need someone to figure out how we can get rid of them from this fandom...LOL

Yeah, IDGI either. Fandom is supposed to be about just having fun however you want with the building blocks from the canon + your imagination. It's not even the main point that they're hilariously bad at interpretation, project too hard onto the characters to even see them, can't understand context to save their lives, pointedly ignore a million things that directly contradict their agenda, and too much of their so-called proof is actually gross backwards stereotypes about sexuality and masculinity (neither of which they seem to understand very well at all). If they were just having fun with it, who the fuck cares? Sure, it's annoying, but a lot of fandom is annoying because it is so specifically tailored to things not everyone is gonna like. There are other canons with fans who are fine admitting they just like playing in the canon world but not the canon itself that much.

No, the problem is hellers are not content to just enjoy their non-canon interpretations in fandom. They feel entitled to flood any and every tag associated with the show, trying to demand their interpretations be considered indisputably canon fact because ... reasons ... and anyone who doesn't agree with them is A Bad Person because ... they say so. Their ship is the greatest love story (n)ever told, the best representation evar in media! It's the only important thing about SPN - and if they couldn't change the canon, they can change the fandom narrative! The fact there's actually no there there under their overblown thousands upon thousands of words of inept meta is why the very suggestion it's not canon, that someone doesn't see it as the greatest thing ever, that maybe Dean is actually just a heterosexual instead of putting on an elaborate performance of one or even that Sam might not be the straightest character ever written? Is taken as an attack upon their self-declared status as the real main audience. Which makes sense, because they never were. SPN was anything but subtle as to what its actual focal relationship was.

To some extent I get how they echo-chambered each other into believing their ship was/would be a thing in canon. If you just look at the size of the piles on piles of cherry-picked nonsense they accumulated over the years without actually engaging your brain to see how variously flimsy, out of context, or how many other more sensible interpretations there were for any of them? If you wanted to believe and surrounded yourself with others who did, too, and kept talking each other up, spending way more time doing that than watching the show? It's no wonder some of them ended up with really skewed expectations.

What I don't get is how they're still going this long after the show ended. SPN is over and there's no more 'Well, next season for sure!' to promise themselves. There are increasingly more stories out there now in a variety of media which are centering deliberately, openly LGBT+ characters and relationships they could invest in championing! Hell, just saying screw canon and burying themselves in writing their idea of "better" fanfic is a perfectly reasonable way to deal with disappointment, no matter how self-inflicted. Instead, they're still here making up elaborate conspiracies about how SPN was something other than what it blatantly obviously always was - because admitting they were wrong and the only thing they ever liked about it was their own OOC fanfic very, very loosely based off of it? Well, that's more than a bit embarrassing in light of how long they spent campaigning and how vehement they were about it totally being not just A Thing but The Most Important Thing Ever. So I don't know what would actually get them to move on, they clearly love being miserable and wrong and pretending to be martyrs over it far too much for me to comprehend.

[reaperrdean]

HELLO! ★ Intro / bmf post..

I’m Dean! I’m 5teen, gay + trans ; he / him prns ‼️ uhj idk if I have to mention this but people usually do so I guess I will but I am single. so I don’t really have any friends, I have a few but we don’t talk a lot, and I’m home schooled as well, so I have no one to talk to basically, but yeahhh, so this is a short intro thingy , but anyway I’m a huge supernatural fan. So my DNI is kinda big btw, but here, ⭣

DNI LIST. :

Wincest shippers. I’m so serious, I hate you all. Toxic destiel shippers (I do ship destiel! But you toxic people suck.) toxic spn fans in general, proshippers, people who are rude or just dicks. People under 13. Lucifer fans. Lucifer x Sam shippers, people who crush on jack kline, (he’s like 3 years old. Just say you find the actor attractive.) racists, homophobes, transphobes, terfs, Zionist’s, xenophobes, lolis, just weirdos in general, oh and misogynist. Like you Jo haters, she is exactly like dean, literally. South Park fans, hazbin hotel, and helluva boss.

OKAY MORE ABT ME and stuff we can do if you do wanna bmf !!

We can match spn pfps, we can watch spn on call !! uhj I can make gifts for you (I draw and edit,,) I TALK IN ALL CAPS CONSTANTLY!! uhj I ship destiel, crobby kinda, Sam and Eileen as well!! But I do not ship Gabriel x Sam, I doubt Sam would date someone who killed his brother a hundred times in front of him,, but that’s just my opinion though!! uhj I use tone tags a lot tbh, but I won’t as much if you don’t want me to, oh yeah I only want to be friends with people mainly in the spn fandom, that’s just what I’m most comfortable with !! I’m not very good at using tumblr (obviously..) BUT YEAH!!

uhj pls bmf / NF !! (If you don’t want to then don’t !! This isn’t forced at all, it’s your choice.)

but if you do please give me your Discord since I’m not on tumblr a lot !!

[wholock-pottergleek]

this person is wrong because i actually love max so much! where did they get the idea that hackearney shippers hate him?

[dwc-jamc-spn]

okay so…not to be the one to ruffle anyones feathers (but this is my blog and I’m gonna post what I want, you can ignore), but the sub-group of Wincest/J2 shippers who accuse Destiel/JenMish shippers of hating Sam/Jared are really just projecting. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I’m really tired of them accusing Destiel/JenMish shippers of hating Sam/Jared for “ruining our ship”. Like, bruh. You can have your own opinion, but that doesn’t make it fact, chief. It’s just. It’s hilarious because no we don’t hate Sam or Jared for reasons related to our ship. Anyone who says that is quite literally projecting.

(And anyone who hates someone, actor or character, for ruining a ship—a freaking ship, of all things?—is pathetic. That’s not a valid or supportable reason to hate someone or to send anyone who likes that person hate. I speak from the experience that I’ve received hate asks and messages when I say this, btw.)

A sub-group of Wincest/J2 shippers perceive Castiel/Misha to be ruining their ship and then go turn it around on Destiel/JenMish shippers and accuse them of the same thin. like idk man. idk how to explain this to you in a digestible way, because neither Sam or Jared are “ruining our ship”. y’all are just projecting your problems or insecurities or whatever onto us for reasons I don’t care to think about because it’s really not my business. You do you as long as you’re not hurting or threatening anyone.

In all honestly, everyone needs to really remember that our opinions are not fact and we all really gotta stop treating them as such.

[billiewena]

saw someone make a comment about how “there’s no proof sam winchester isn’t straight!!” and it made me realize how new this side of spn tumblr is to bi/pan/nonbinary/queer sam. the history of it, the evidence for it, and most importantly...how fun it can be!!

as someone who’s been in the trenches in both the samgirl/desticule side of tumblr over the years I thought it’d be fun to share some LGBT Sam Winchester History (Herstory? Theirstory?) for anyone new to queer sam headcanons but still interested!

sam winchester: COULD he be any gayer??

the facts

disclaimer #1: a lot of these are purely for headcanon purposes only and even if sam was canonically lgbt, I don't think he'd be the best rep all of time for it versus other canon queer characters. my goal was to help non-sam blogs understand where the interpretations come from in the first place and how it's not too dissimilar to the way Destiel fans react the shows' homophobic writing

disclaimer #2: a lot of destiel shippers got into supernatural for destiel. that’s not and shouldn’t be controversial? joining spn tumblr doesn’t come with a welcome pamphlet and it’s a show with 300+ episodes. people shouldn’t be expected to have analyzed every aspect of it and know every behind-the-scenes fact. people are STILL discovering new details even in 2021. this is not a “why isn’t anyone talking about this??” post (I hate those posts) but hopefully a "queer sam for newbies.”

writer and s6-s7 showrunner sera gamble supported a MLM reading of sam as early as s2, revealed in the commentary for the episode “bloodlust”. in the episode, sam has a flirtatious exchange with the bartender eli (coincidentally played by ty olsson, later known for playing benny.) however it’s implied that gamble was shut down as robert singer referred to her queer sam headcanons as nothing more than “sick twisted fantasies”

while this is the only known and confirmed instance of fully intentional queer subtext (similar to dean’s moment with aaron in S8) there have been a few other questionable exchanges with sam and men on cases, i.e. patrick the gambler witch from 5x07 or paul the bartender from 5x17 (both featured in this great gifset). notably, both most instances including these two happen in episodes by gamble.

(sidenote: there’s theories that the main character on sera gamble’s The Magicians is VERY similar to sam and this was sorta her way of having a queer sam-esque character. it is a good show, just know it does NOT end happy for the character in question. the character of quentin doesn’t use any specific labels but is in relationships with men and women in the show all while being a floppy-haired, bookish but powerful nerd just like sam!)

while sam has interacted with both male and female crossroads demon, he has ONLY summoned male ones on his own (check my own breakdown of the history of crossroads demon gender on the show)

sam refers to past/potential love interests with gender neutral pronouns (examples). his actor has also done this in the past when referring to sam's relationships.

he understands terms used in the gay community, i.e. fifth base

some of the fun evidence we use for trans!dean (i.e. the photo ID that says “F” for birth sex) has also happened to sam!

his reaction to seeing a shirtless man in bed

brady is referred to as sam’s demon lover and crowley implies that the two have "history.” I’d compare the popularity of sambrady in the sam fandom to deanlee in the destiel fandom; it’s generally headcanoned that there was indeed a complicated, college relationship there that becomes even more complicated when a demon possesses him. it wouldn’t be the only past love interest of sam’s to be possessed by a demon either.

the 👀

when dean makes jokes like “could you be anymore gay?” sam actually looks pensive like “huh? COULD I be?” this is very much how I would respond to this kind of joke if my roommates made it and we are LITERALLY all queer

he owned a purple dog shirt...is that straight behavior to you.

he’s a canonical theater kid who took an art history course (for “picking up girls” which sounds a lot like an excuse he’d give to not reveal he did it for gay reasons) AND was attached to his high school English teacher, like pick a struggle

he had an imaginary friend as a kid (sully my beloved) with some light queercoding of his own i.e. rainbow suspenders. sully encouraged him to love himself and to not listen to/be like his family

dean has literally microaggressed sam 10x more than sam has microaggressed dean. I would literally go sleep with a guy just to spite him after the 60th comment.

in general, sam’s story is just...queercoded af. “son is treated as wrong and a freak by his father until he leave home at the age of eighteen?” that’s queer baby!! and I get it, I too moved to college in a state I knew my family would never visit as soon as I could!! alexa play The Village by Wrabel.

and lastly but most important (and I say this as a bi!dean truther because helloooo look at my blog)...at no point has sam ever said he is straight. dean has said they are (“we don’t swing that way” in response to victor henrickson) but sam never said anything regarding his sexuality.

are you into the idea of queer sam but don’t know where to start? here are some of my favorite arguments for the different readings along with some personal interpretations and headcanons!

why I think bi/pan/queer/labelless sam is sexy:

saileen, samruby and samjess all feel like bi4bi couples let’s be real here

demon lover brady could’ve actually been his demon lover! the trauma of your college boyfriend / probably first gay experience being a monster used against you??? lifelong disorders! it also wouldn’t be the first time a demon possessed a former sam love interest.

sam’s not hung-up on any of the things dean is hung-up on. labels or orientations, he’s always been open to all of it. just like how sam can listen to a celine dion album or drink “vegetable water” without thinking twice about it. to me, it’s all about how sam has always been comfortable with his sexuality and it not being a big deal for him, and dean just...hasn’t lol.

sexualty is a spectrum! sam can still prefer women and in fact has excellent taste in them (have you seen his girlfriends? have you? this may be the samcoding talking...)

while the majority of queer sam fans ship with him with castiel (and who can blame them, it’s CAS) there’s other cute boyfriends out there for him too:

- max banes, the cool and canonically queer witch from s12. in their first scene together, he defends sam from a stranger asking about his trauma! a man that respects sam’s boundaries? sexy af. also witch!sam and max banes?? sexy af. in general there was so much more the show could’ve and should’ve done with the banes twins, and exploring that through sam’s pov would’ve been fascinating because you know he would try to help max & alicia and understand why he did what he did!

- mick davies, aka sam’s “nerd soulmate” as dean refers to him. sam and mick get each other and bond over their love of learning and making the world of hunting a better place! mick even turns against the BMOL to side with them (but unfortunately dies before that can be realized.) oh, society if mick was resurrected instead of ketch and got to be nerdy bfs with sam...

- one episode-icons patrick the witch (what’s it with sam and witches amiright), paul (my personal beloved) and brady the demon and/or human (a given)

- crowley! while its peak popularity was probably pre-samwena and the drowley summer of love, the samcrowley fandom (formerly known as "moosely" now usually referred to as "cram") is STILL alive and kickin’. they even have cram mondays now!

- and can’t forget ol’ gabriel the archangel. sabriel is a classic “opposites attract” pairing that’s existed ever since sam puppy-dog eyed his way out of a timeloop and you know what? for good reason. two words: height differences.

sam being an ally isn’t nearly as fun to me as sam being out for years and just waiting for his idiot brother to catch up so he can get the stick out of his ass so he can then list of a list of microaggressions dean has made over the years. I think he deserves it.

why I think gay sam is sexy

this post is basically the gay sam manifesto so I’m stealing from there but

basically there are multiple instances where a girl comes onto sam and he very harshly rejects them (i.e. the iconic “I’m lactose intolerant”) and I think it’s funny okay. I love you gay sammy.

why I think nonbinary/he & they sam is sexy:

again, the whole “not hung up on labels” thing. sam using gender neutral pronouns for his past relationships means it makes total sense for them to also refer to themselves with gender neutral pronouns.

a lot of sam’s journey on the show is about their body autonomy and lack thereof (and whatever mother mother was singing about in “body” and ajj in “body terror song”) to me, trans/nonbinary sam is just him reclaiming their body and making it their own again. a chance to heal and be confident in their identity and sense of self.

sam/sammy is literally the perfect nonbinary name!! they struck the gender neutral name LOTTERY I’m so goddamn jealous

long hair, don’t care! nonbinary people have the freedom to mix & match whatever gender expressions they want because they owe no one androgyny.  I love the idea that sam’s always been into having more traditionally feminine hair that’s it’s become part of their identity, and one of the most iconic aspects of their character, while dressing and presenting traditionally masculine otherwise.

sam’s actor has vocally supported it he/they sam headcanons! am I a fan of his? of course not! does it still matter just as much as jensen saying dean’s side of the confession is open to all interpretation? yes! actors do not make and cannot make anything canon, but being supportive of it IS still nice and encouraging! can you imagine if misha hadn’t been so open to queer readings of cas? can you imagine if his support was taken away from you? it’d suck!

I’m samcoded and also a they/them, so like...they/them solidarity I guess????

why I think trans!masc sam is sexy:

see less love for this but so far every FTM Sam fic I’ve read has made me cry so that’s gotta be something right

speaking of “makes me cry”, THIS TRANS SAM COMIC BY @kimodraw MAKES ME FULL-ON SOB PLEASE READ IT

there’s lots of interesting show details that could be used as evidence just like trans!dean headcanons (sam being called “samantha” in mostly derogatory manners being deadnaming, the F on his ID that one time, etc.)

sam going from Baby Boy to Buff AF? that’s just the T!

sam + cahartt hoodie = transmasc swag

the john, sam and dean dynamic is only intensified if he was seen as the precious daughter that must be protected (and not as a living person) and adds even more layers when sam return to the family as a man

there is also something compelling about sam becoming a man in a family with such a warped view of masculinity & wanting to redefine the definition of a “man” for himself

as far as headcanons, this post has so many beautiful headcanons of sam growing up trans

sam coming to embrace who he is in college, jess being openly supportive of sam as soon as he comes out, jess joining sam on his appointment to get his top surgery, jess proudly loving her boyfriend as the man he’s grown to become...goddamn it I’m crying again...

why trans!femme sam is sexy (bonus points if it’s trans!lesbian sam):

update: I have been leaning away from this and think this post explains it well (thanks queersamofficial for sharing) but would love to hear from trans!femme fans who want to talk about it! in general, this is a very fanon-heavy interpretation (similar to witch!sam) and think it’s important to know that. tho I always support more trans headcanons over cisswaps/genderbends.

since this is the masterpost tho...all you DO need to know is that sam winchester is very popular with the lesbian spn fan community (science cannot explain this) and there are storylines and moments that I think resonate with sapphic fans similar to how dean resonates with trans!masc fans and cas resonates with ace/demi fans. I even made a post about one. would love to hear people talk about it!

anyways, if you are a fan of trans!femme sam...

known lesbian icon velma from scooby-doo having a crush on sam when they first meet? well...

trans!femme AND witch!sam? best combination known to man, the POWER that has, the IMPACT that has---

trans!femme divorcing herself from not only her old self but her family’s obsession with toxic masculinity? *chef’s kiss*

bonus trans!sam: stream thee t4t samruby post

why I think aro!sam is sexy

this post

sam always associated a “good life” with having a girlfriend or wife, but aro!sam comes to realize he doesn’t need that to be happy. his happy ending can look a lot of different ways.

...tho aro saileen and samruby does compel me

I don’t have much to offer in the asexual!sam departments, BUT my inbox is open to anyone passionate about it who want to talk about it (or anyone who has anything to add here!!)

counter arguments I’ve gotten sometimes:

"___ and ___” was clearly just a homophobic/misogynistic/joke, not evidence of anything

I mean I could say the same for 75% of bisexual dean and destiel evidence so. I approach LGBT sam the way trans!dean fans approach that interpretation (which I also love): taking what was nothing more than a shitty joke from cishet men and turning it into something beautiful that you can relate to and see yourself in instead.

"j*red is the straightest/most homophobic man alive I refuse to see any character he plays as queer”

yo I hate that guy and you should too. luckily these characters are fictional and you don’t need to like the actor to enjoy a character. in fact, actors shouldn’t exist at all anymore I think. I like headcanoning his character as queer/trans just to spite him even. while his actor may have kept him from being the queer icon he deserved to be, the writing (and most importantly the writer’s support) was there.

this is just a made-up version of sam that lives in your head :/

well, yeah? while there is canon evidence for some of these especially the bi!sam truthing, sometimes headcanons are just fanon...and that’s okay! the canon version of the show ended with dean a dead “heterosexual” alcoholic and sam married to some random woman we know nothing about it. what’s wrong with imagining a better more satisfying ending and story for these characters? also, if you think the differences between fanon sam and canon sam are bad you should see the differences between fanon dean and canon dean.

final argument: what queer!sam adds to destiel because they can (and should!) coexist!

“but wouldn’t have sam figured out that dean was lgbt if he was also lgbt?” no? one, there’s a LOT about dean that sam doesn’t know and that’s a major reoccurring theme (especially since dean is a parent figure to him in addition to an older brother). two, even then how do you ever know for sure? my “token straight friend” made jokes for YEARSSSS about her lady crushes and we never took them seriously since she said it was just her being comfortable in her sexuality. guess who came out as bi the past year?

“I’ve been out since Standford” Sam can judge dean for still being hung up on his outdated ideas of masculinity, sexuality, etc. (which he does anyways! now he just has more reason to!)

all of TFW and their friends being LGBT only makes sense because gay people tend to flock to each other like magnets!! science cannot explain this!! all but one of my friends I knew in high school / college has since come out as something!! even one we joked was the token straight realized they were bi this year!! another thinks they might be ace! it never stops!!!

the impala is basically now just the “down with cis” car

the chaos of sam and cas’s friendship is not only explained if they’re both queer but ELEVATED

jack gets THREE gay dads!! the literal dream

when dean does come out, he still has the most supportive brother in his corner ready to help him be more accepting of himself...but also to help educate him on queer issues because let’s be real, dean has some learning (and unlearning) to do. charlie and sam are preparing a powerpoint as we SPEAK.

but he’s allowed to still microaggress dean because 1) that’s what he deserves for helping make sam’s childhood one long macroaggression and 2) he’s funnier about it. dean and sam ARE a win for gay homophobe rights.

at the end of the day, the show never even let dean be openly bisexual so what better form of rebellion is there than headcanoning no spn character as cishet? you can’t give us one good gay movie kiss and now ALL your characters are gay & trans, bob singer <3

most importantly: sam, dean, and adam all being lgbt??? john winchester’s worst nightmare baby!

at the end of the day, they are literally all fictional and this is a sandbox in which we can do whatever we want! no one wins by keeping someone from headcanoning a character as any form of LGBTQIA, but we do have fun to gain!

on that note, here's some fun queer sam tumblr posts to start you on your journey: (x) (x)

I also highly recommend the blog queersamofficial (which shares fun posts & ships) and sambrosia’s sam slash anyone series if you want a fun introduction to all the sam ships out there! (includes m/m and f/m)

update: I also now have a side samblog (@alivegirlsam​) if you’re a multishipper who considers yourself sastielcurious or just want to talk more about queer sam, trans sam, sam in general.

[pollsnatural]

I'm not saying that I'm a good mathematician, but something in your calculations doesn't add up. So far, 2,053 people have voted in this poll. Assuming the entire Supernatural fandom has already voted, there are 2,053 people here. How do 15 blocked people (some of whom are in the temporary block) constitute "half of a fandom" that consists of at least 2,053 people. If you meant fandom excluding destiel shippers, there are 873 people who voted for Cas in this poll. This number is still nowhere near the number of blocked people (and if we exclude destiel shippers, I think I can get that number down to 13 since two people were blocked for hating Jared and Sam). So far I've blocked people for being sexist/being rude to me and making fun of my polls/spreading hate on posts that had nothing to do with drama (after I specifically asked not to do so). These people broke the rules, so I blocked them. As long as you express your opinion politely without being offensive, you'll be fine. This has nothing to do with Sam or wincest or bibros.

Anyway, even if the math added up, do you really think polls on Tumblr mean anything? Do you think the show's creators will find this survey and, based on those results, decide not to include Sam in the Spn sequel? Stop treating these polls like they're the Olympics.

[dotthings]

Some thoughts about Jensen Ackles, from the pov of a Dean/Jensen fan who is also a Cas/Misha fan and a Destiel shipper, TFW fan, and fan of found family on SPN. How he gets his arms pulled off between different aisles of the fandom, on multiple things, and how Jensen loves SPN.

One side has some people who accuse him of being phobic, while they ignore all his allyship, his support, and times he’s supported their view of the characters and the show, while another side has some people who…also accuse him of being phobic but pretend they aren’t, while they blame the other side and spew rhetoric about a false sense of disgust and hatred they invented and assigned to Jensen. His own lane even has some people who deploy biphobic rhetoric, claiming it’s to defend Jensen’s honor. They don’t seem to care that has little connection to the actual full breadth and depth of his viewpoints on the subject.

One side resents him if he speaks about his love of the brothers and touchstones that as the center of the show, while another side resents him if he shows any support for found family. Particularly if it’s Cas, then it’s accusations of “pandering.”

Jensen loves the brothers, Jensen also loves found family. Jensen put “family don’t end with blood” on his charity auction shirt revival-themed doodles. Not “Sam and Dean nobody else.”

And it’s always one lane or the other going “Jensen better do this” and “Jensen better do that.” Dance, monkey. Dance.

One side will rip him to pieces if he shows too much support for bi Dean and Destiel, another side will rip him to pieces if he doesn’t show enough support. Jensen’s whole-hearted support for queer Cas gets completely lost in all this noise.

Jensen walks a tightrope over a moat of razor wire and crocodiles, unable to speak clearly, while he tries to show in every way he can that he supports people who see bi Dean and who see Destiel. He pads his warm words about Dean and Cas’s relationship with prevarications and disclaimers, and that doesn’t mean what some people think. If you pay close attention to his words, it’s not a shutdown or an expression of his own dislike or aversion. He may in part be reconciling his own long-standing and sincere appreciation of the kindred spirits, brother-like, best friends dynamic of Dean and Cas, a relationship he is fond of and he played for 12 seasons, mixed with his own supportiveness about the concept of Dean being bi and mutually acknowledged canon Destiel. But he doesn’t want to say anything until the deal’s done and he can stand on top of it free and clear. He’s signaling as much support as he can, as much warmth as he can, without tipping his hand all the way.

Jensen held Misha’s cape for the love confession. He was openly enthusiastic about the episode and that scene. Jensen is not “against” anything, except maybe the hate. Including hate that denigrated and erased Jensen’s own superb performance and diminished and erased Dean’s pov and feelings and roiling and strong emotions, including Dean sobbing on the floor.

Jensen, who stuck up for everyone at SPN, fellow cast members, crew. Jensen who shows his interest in and love and respect for other characters and various relationships. Jensen who very clearly thinks holistically about the story and the show.

He sticks up for everyone, yet didn’t have room to breathe at the end of spn’s run to stick up for Dean. He had to fight with an EP for the right to even have Dean die standing on his feet, couldn’t get more than that, and was told “take or leave it” in the writers’ room about the ending. Which he had misgivings on. But reconciled with it eventually. Also before it was filmed, for a while, he thought it would be much better than it turned out to be after production shutdowns in March 2020 allowed for corporate to come in and derail the original full plans for the ending.

Jensen’s disappointment about Dean is self-evident, it’s also self-evident he’s not just disappointed about that. Dean, Cas, found family, all matter to him, not “just the brothers.”

Maybe Jensen didn’t want conflict and confrontation as the show came to an end. He loves SPN a lot. So he didn’t push the issue hard on Dean’s behalf. Maybe Jensen decided it was better to bide his time rather than confront.

And after all, before the series finale was even wrapped, he was already making his own plans, forming his own production company and contemplating SPN revival and spinoffs, and then Jensen wound up as THEE producer of the SPN universe—prequels, revivals, spinoffs and all.

For the prequel, he worked with creatives to find a way to start repairing the damage done in Dean’s ending, and opened up the story to hope, to possibilities, to start repairing damage done on other things as well. And he got hate from some in the lane that was supposed to love and respect both J’s the most, he got blamed for caring, for having agency, for caring about Dean, for caring about the SPN universe, for caring about the story. He got blamed for making a TV show and got blamed for asserting himself about Dean in the way he’d decided was best for him, the way he preferred to deal with it.

Jensen cares in a very wide way. Like Dean, his heart is very big. He doesn’t hate the way certain antis keep claiming he hates. He’s also empathetic, open-minded, curious, intelligent, he listens, and his pov evolves, which is true of fans too. (It’s not any kind of an insult to point out that he’s capable of understanding and learning and growing—it’s nothing I don’t apply for myself, and don’t try to do myself—and Jensen himself has talked about the importance of these things. It’s how many people do, it’s how it should be.)

Jensen ushered in a prequel that was about found family as well as tying back to the brothers and their family, but very much linked to Dean’s pov and Dean’s story. At no point did he abandon his love for the brothers. It’s that this isn’t the only thing that matters to him. He’s going to usher in a revival that is about Sam and Dean and their family. And maybe get some more healing for himself (and for fans who care about Dean) on Dean’s story, as well as some other things.

“I love this character, I love the story of these two brothers and I love what it stands for and I love the world that they live in and the family that they have acquired through their years. There’s so much love and attachment to that show. There’s a reason that it went 15 years.” —Jensen Ackles on the Inside of you podcast, January 18, 2022

[lol-jackles]

https://www.tumblr.com/blog/view/devilsrolldice/694111374482325504?source=share

(Just to pre-face this, while I don't think this person is a heller, they def ship dest*el - which you could tell anyways by their arguments including "If you want a future for the Supernatural universe and want the possibility for a finale fix it, for a empty rescue, for a heaven breakout, this is where we need to start and it needs your support." - which are very clear dest*el shipper/heller arguments)

I can understand where this person is coming from, but I feel like the argument is a little naive and reductive. They've tried to do multiple spin-offs and while others have never gotten made and this one did - the problem with the spin-offs is that people don't just want properties in the "spn universe" they want Sam and Dean. That's why the others failed and TW got pushed through (they were more desperate for spn properties since spn ended and they attached Jensen/Dean to TW to try and pull in the og fandom). But to say that the "love story of John and Mary" failing automatically means no more spn ever doesn't ring true. While I think that yea, the WBD/CW probably won't waste any more money on it, that doesn't mean it won't happen elsewhere. The J2 and Sam/Dean chemistry is "lightning in a bottle" as has been stated by many in the industry over the years. So a revival with the brothers? Yea, I think other networks wouldn't turn their nose up at it. And from the rumors that are out there (huge grain of salt obviously) they are pitching it not just to WBD/CW and are also pitching it independent of CM, so even if CM goes under with TW it shouldn't effect anything. This whole post just feels like gaslighting - if you want to see any more spn EVER then you better watch TW even if you hate it (with some unnamed hints at dest*el peppered in). Thoughts?

WB is AWLAYS going to attempt spin-offs and sequels, therefore this Destiel shipper should not worry their little head over “no more SPN!”. What they need to get through their little head is there will be no Destiel or “fix it” because their numbers are so laughably small.

In other words, Destiel is not profitable.  Canonizing it will only kill the SPN merch goldmine and kill what is left of Misha’s career because he will get blamed for it.  Just ask George Clooney who is still apologizing for Batman & Robin 25 years later even though he had no control over the writing of that shitty film.

The OP is just trying to scare people to watch TW along wth people who are going to hate-watch it.

And the OP’s claim to have a marketing degree makes them no more of an industry expert than me claiming to be a fighter pilot makes me Tom Cruise playing a rather homoerotic game of beach volleyball.

[simplenefelibata]

i love how antis ask for "ubiased sources and facts" when all of u know damn well that there's no way of measuring the extent of fandom and its opinions outside of social media without it turning into a market research (wich they DID for destiel btw, this has been confirmed).

so, u want sources? just go and search how the numbers of the viewers went down everytime cas was killed off.

also, although you may not like it, shows nowadays do need social media to exist and confirm if what they want to do is viable or it isn't. and there's a majority (or if you don't like that word then let's say "a lot") of fans posting they won't be watching if the show doesn't meet the criteria above. so, the sources are biased, but there's no other way for the producers or anyone involved in the revival to know the opinion of fans. if y'all think this doesn't represent the spn fandom, then make sure to be more visible.

on another note, again, a majority throughout the years since 2020 didn't like or even hated the ending because it didn't meet the criteria above... (and also bc they did dean and sam dirty, but that's another side of the opinion and also shared by different spaces of the fandom). so, logically, why would they watch a series that doesn't change what they already think is done wrong... like why... maybe to complain or confirm what they expect but outside of that... why...

ps: i know that when u interact with some content, then it'll show u more of the same content. i'm not talking about seeing that "majority" in the circles i like or that you like. the only way of knowing what's being more visible is searching what people OUTSIDE of the fandom is seeing, and they are seeing the destiel shippers, or "hellers".

i'm not in the mood to argue tho. since ur opinion is biased as well, just like mine.

Edit: didn't make to call u an anti lmao. sorry i thought u were someone else that answered me then blocked me. i thought they unblocked me 😭 that's why i'm so violent in this, again sorry sjfbdkdjdkkd

what the cw and all of the people involved in the spn revival need to understand is that AT LEAST half of their loyal public won't be watching if

Cas isn't there

Destiel doesn't happen

and it's just because their queerbaiting made the story evolve in a way that the only possible outcome is letting those two men french kiss.

yeah there is public out there still gaslighting themselves into thinking cas doesn't love dean that way, or even trying to make it seem as if all was a fever dream from the so called hellers. but just take a quick take around the fandom and you'll see that the vast majority of the fans are people that SEE the queerness in all of what they did.

so, if they invest and don't make destiel happen -> bankruptcy.

[msmarvelouswinchester]

Chan's 1k Followers Challenge!

To commemorate my 1k followers milestone, I decided to hold a little writing challenge for you guys!

Now there's a twist, more like a spin because it'll be Spin The Wheel Challenge! The rules are a little...baffling, so please read them carefully and you have to be 18+ and you don't necessarily have to follow me but it'll be nice!

The general rules are as follows -

You can write for both Sam and Dean (I wouldn't say no to a Winchester sandwich either). All versions of the Winchesters (demon, soulless, AUs, are welcome)

Other than the SPN fandom, you can write for Marvel, Lucifer, Shadow&Bone, 911, Bridgerton

You can also write for Jensen and Jared (or a J2 sandwich), Ben Barnes, Chris Evans too. Honestly, if you want to write for characters not mentioned here, go for it! No worries, let the imagination run wild.

Characters x male readers are welcomed as well

The only donts here are - No Wincest or Destiel (not a fan, not a shipper), no underage smut, no wife-hate.

AUs and A/B/O verse fics are highly welcomed as well as non-cons and dubcons.

Minimum words - 500, maximum - there's no limit but I will prefer if you keep it as an oneshot or even a three parts miniseries.

Now that we are done with the general rules, let's dive into the rules specific to the game!

So I have five sets of different prompt lists - Set A include Song Prompts, Set B includes AU prompts and so on.

There are fifteen prompts in each sets (if necessary, I'll add more)

What you'll do is that you'll send me an ask or a message with the letter of your chosen set (A, B, C, D or E) and then I'll spin the wheel and on whichever number the arrow lands, is your prompt.

To participate you have to choose at least one set but the maximum number of sets you can choose? All five of them! Let the creativity run wild people!

Due date for submission - 30th January (but of course, if you need more time, just lemme know)

Tag me in the A/N when you post your fic and you can also use the #chans1kspinthewheel when you post!

That's it for the rules, if you have any questions, feel free to ask me, happy writing!

You can find the prompt list down below and this is the online spin the wheel which will be used.

Prompt List

A - SONG PROMPTS (I put my spotify on shuffle for this)

Exile by Taylor Swift, Bon Iver

You Shook Me All Night Long by AC/DC

Favourite Crime by Olivia Rodrigo

Creep by Radiohead

The Night We Met by Lord Huron

Happier than Ever by Billie Eilish

Never Worn White by Katy Perry

You Are The Reason by Calum Scott

Hey Jude by The Beatles

Perfect by One Direction

She Will Be Loved by Maroon 5

Love The Way You Lie (part 2) by Rihanna, Eminem

Night Moves by Bob Seger

Chasing Cars by Snow Patrol

Say You Won’t Let Go by James Arthur

B - AU PROMPTS

Neighbors AU

Hospital AU

College AU

Serial Killer AU

Hallmark AU

Domestic AU

Mafia AU

Soulmate AU

Road Trip AU

Witch AU

Professor AU

Rockstar AU

Royalty AU

Stripper AU

Single Parent AU

C - TROPES PROMPTS

Enemies to Lovers

Fake Dating

Bestfriends/Friends to Lovers

Blind Date

Arranged Marriage

Bed Sharing

Fix-it

Mutual Pining

Hurt/Comfort

Huddling for Warmth

Slow Burn

First Time

Opposites Attract

Friends With Benefit

Secret Admirers

D - Dialogue Prompts

“Can you kiss me again? I wasn’t ready.”

“You weren't there when I needed you the most.”

“I didn’t think it was possible to love someone this much.”

“Do I look like I’m messing around? Do I look like I won’t punish you?”

“Don’t pretend like you’re not happy to see me like this.”

“You’re not giving me much of a choice.”

“You’d better be quiet if you don’t want to get caught.”

“You look so good on your knees like that.”

“Those things you said yesterday…Did you mean them?

“Do you want me to leave?”

“How was I such an idiot, to believe that you, out of all people, could ever love me?”

“Take my hand. Just trust me.”

“I could never get tired of you.”

“It wasn’t supposed to end this way.”

“Oh honey, you know, you really shouldn’t tease me.”

E - NSFW PROMPTS

Sex Pollen

Fuck or Die

Beard kink

Breeding Kink

Publix Sex

Shower Sex

Mutual Masturbation

Dirty Talk

Cockwarming

Mirror Sex

Orgasm Denial

Oral Sex (fem or male)

Edging

Sexting

Roleplay

[ficforthought]

On being SO DONE with M*sha, a rant a decade in the making!

After giving this some thought I'm going to go ahead and give my opinion on Misha and yesterday’s situation in public for the first time ever. I was going to just post on Twitter but since this has been 12 years in the making I have exceeded the number of tweets I can put in one thread! There’s A LOT in here, so my summary is also long. I'm aware that I will lose followers over this, I'm not looking to offend anyone but it will inevitably happen. I wish anyone leaving all the best as fellow human beings.

TL;DR - having kept quiet for so long I’ve finally reached my limit and it’s all come bubbling out. I’ve never been a fan of Misha, I’ve been ambivalent for the most part, but have never criticised him in any hateful way, that's not who I am, but after all these years of putting up with his bullshit, attention seeking and troublemaking I am DONE. Deleting his tweet containing the word Wincest and replacing it with an APOLOGY just to pander to his Minions and save face is the straw that broke the camel's back. He has consistently pushed his ship on not only fans but on other actors (despite Jensen's discomfort, and him having repeatedly made his feelings known on it), he has stood by while his Minions/Hellers have harassed, victimised, doxxed and sent death threats to people based on their FICTIONAL ships. He has pandered to their gatekeeping, constantly demanded attention in obvious and not so obvious ways, and to the best of my knowledge never criticised their actions even though he's aware of it in a very real way. Some of his Minions have now taken their shit into The Boys fandom and created negativity for Jensen before the guy has even got a foot through the set door, and how is that supporting one half of your ship?

Misha has claimed to be a victim of targeted harassment from Wincest/brother fans (not only shippers) yet his fans have said and done the most despicable things on his watch, all in the name of what he must think is entertainment, or even his idea of a ‘joke’.

Any respect I had for the man based on his humanitarian work has gone because I can only take so much hypocrisy. He and his pandering because of a desperate attempt to be woke and wholly inclusive (which is actually impossible, no matter how good intentions are) are beyond pathetic. Whilst I have never seen why people think he’s so great I have friends IRL and online who genuinely adore the man, yet they have been shocked and upset by his contempt for half of the fandom that made him somewhat famous. It's disgusting and I'm not scrolling by any more. Misha, I hope to never see you on anything J2 related in future because none of us need that kind of negativity, *especially* not J2. Be gone, foul fiend!

OK, so to the too long part. Please be aware that these are my opinions as a fan of the show, of Sam and Dean, and J2, not only as a shipper. I can separate canon and fanon, and can view canon from a gen or shippy PoV. Whether you agree or disagree with my opinion let me be clear that I do not condone constant bashing and hate of a person or character so this isn’t the start of a regular thing for me. It's possible to have an opinion and not show the same vitriol that has been following this man around for years, and that’s what I’m doing. I've not posted this to prompt more negativity, it's simply to get it off my chest and make it clear how I feel. I stand by my philosophy of ship who you want to ship, enjoy it, but don't force it on other people and don't be a dick about it…hmm, that kinda sounds like familiar behaviour, though, does it not?!

I have ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUE with other people liking Misha, Cas or Destiel when it’s for the love of the characters and the ship. What I *do* have an issue with is people who are the true definition of a Heller. I don’t see that as a generic term, don't be ignorant and think I do because I know the difference between actual ship fans and the crazies, both ships have ‘em and I want no part of either of their venom. If you are reading this and class yourself as a Heller then you are part of the problem so run along and as you are all so fond of saying, 'get help' and take your bestie king with you.

I’m stating my opinion in what I feel is the most mature way I can, because unlike many people on SM, I am an adult and can act accordingly, with forethought and without resorting to temper tantrums and bullying of other people to get my point across. I am able to tell the difference between reality and fiction, I don't tar everyone with the same shipper brush and I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion, but as we know opinions are like arseholes, we all have them and sometimes they stink. Unlike some, for the most part in life (online and offline) I *do* stand by what I say and don’t backtrack or delete things to appease the masses. I have spent a lot of time writing this out to be as clear as possible without being intentionally hateful. Bear with me jumping between actor and character where relevant, at this point they're conjoined. I will say this before I go any further, it doesn’t end well for Misha, I don’t mince my words and if you don’t like seeing facts and opinions laid out, this isn't the post for you.

I’ll say right off the bat what most of you have surmised - I’ve never held Misha (or Cas) in high esteem but I have never *hated* on him. I have shared mild criticism of his actions and opinions on Cas over the years but never, I feel, in any way that has made me feel I have something to apologise for. I have said several times I've been unhappy about Misha crashing con panels, taking attention away from J2 when at those cons *most* people paid their hard earned money to see the STARS of the show they love, first and foremost, and anyone else is a very nice bonus. The odd appearance here and there crashing a panel is fine (and Misha isn’t the first or last person to do it), maybe take up a few minutes then leave, but when someone commandeers an entire panel, that's just not on. It's not only selfish, rude and attention seeking but also disrespectful to other actors, fans and to the organisers who work hard to make sure everything ties in to give us the best con experience we can have. Everyone gets their turn on stage, there's no need to try and hog any more of the limelight, Veruca Salt style. Oh, and if you’re reading this and not getting that reference, (a) you shouldn’t be on my blog because you’re far too young, (b) look it up, and if you still don’t get what I’m saying… well then please refer to point (a). Thank you, kindly!

There was a time in Kripke's era where Cas was - I feel - intentionally used as a pawn by the writers to divert *canon* from the ‘questionable’ relationship between Sam and Dean, i.e. Wincest focus. Prior to that people (other fans) lightened up and just accepted the fact that Wincest had been there since day one in terms of the writing of the show and the fandom. All the cast and crew knew - J2, Kripke and JDM in particular - and made light of it, never judging, never shaming and often encouraging it because they understand it’s a fun part of fandom. Wincest was present enough to be part of the not so subtle subtext, as I said people just accepted it. Kink tomato was alive and well, so was ‘don’t like, don’t read’ and we all just scrolled over things we didn’t like without turning everything into a personal vendetta and excuse for bullying others who didn’t share our views. When the angels came into the plot I think most of us Wincest fans gave the Dean/Cas innuendos the small laugh they deserved and then turned back to the focus of the show which was the brothers, as it had always been intended. Misha, however, milked those moments as much as possible which was amusing at the start but got old *very* quickly, not just for fans (shippers and non shippers alike), but for other actors, in particular Jensen who is on record MULTIPLE times showing his dislike for Destiel. He told people outright that's not how he was playing the relationship between the two characters and CATEGORICALLY said "Destiel doesn't exist" but did it end there? No, it did not because neither fans or Misha let it go, in fact Misha only pushed more, goaded fans into flogging the same dead horse as much as possible. He’s never stopped, not even when there was so much discord in the fandom, a huge wedge was driven into it because of ships, which IMO he heavily contributed to.

Fast forward to over a decade later (a decade, seriously man, let it fucking go!) he didn’t even stop when Destiel did partially go canon. I have never doubted that Cas loved Dean (Sam, too) because in SPN lore angels are made to love, even rebellious ones. I, along with many others, liked that about Cas because who doesn't love a rebel, especially one rebelling for very good reasons, and because of those two wonderful men? Sam and Dean allowed him to see beyond what he'd been brainwashed to believe his entire existence. The fact is that although the nature of that love changed for Cas, it never did for Dean and was CANONICALLY UNREQUITED because Dean was incapable of loving anyone else as much as he loved Sam. All that mattered to Dean, even when he saw other characters as "family" was still Sam…ALWAYS Sam, every step of the way. Again for those who have too much Misha shaped wax in their ears, that’s canon. Whether people choose to see that love platonically or romantically is up to them, soulmates don't always have to be romantic, either way, brotherly love won out above all else on the show. No amount of Misha screaming ‘hey look, Destiel!’ changed that, but it sure didn’t stop him trying, did it?

So now that the obvious has been stated, here's something else we all know - never once in all of the years on the show did Misha drop rallying of the troops to his precious, ego stroking ship. Never once (that I am aware of) has he called out his Minions and Hellers on their continued harassment of everyone involved in the show and other fans despite the fact that they have bullied, victimised and wished bodily harm, rape and death on people who don't see their ship and because didn't get the ending to the story that they wanted. Not once has Misha shown any remorse for the trauma his "fans" have caused, and I’m taking REAL trauma, here, not the kind Twitter stans see as ‘triggering’ - people have been driven to close SM accounts, attempted, and in some cases succeeded in taking their own lives. These Minions have openly mocked Jared’s struggles with depression and anxiety, and Misha - who claims to be friends with J2 and be supportive of them in every way  - has stood by and let it all play out, knowing full well some of the goings on, if not the full extent of how toxic these people are. We know he sees things being said online, and I have absolutely no doubt he spends time online searching his name for things that are relevant in some way to him in an effort to insert himself into a current conversation, or even start one so that attention is on him. Gotta stay relevant, somehow, right, Mish?

He has actively encouraged bullying by his actions of enabling the behaviours above, both by the flogging of the aforementioned dead horse, AND by not objecting to unacceptable behaviours. Remember when Minions and Hellers were slating J2, particularly Jared, for not posting on SM about BLM and other topics? Yeah, he didn’t ask them to stop doing that, either, even when he was tagged in things along the lines of ‘If Misha can post why can’t J2?’ etc. There have been some token protests, con vids I've seen have show his 'objections' which IMO have been done in a very tongue in cheek way, meaning that those people who needed to be pulled aside and told to change their ways just carried on, because their evil overlord didn’t explicitly explain it in terms a three year old could understand that bullying and forcing your opinion on others is WRONG. Not all of his cult are young and impressionable, not by a long shot, but many of the more vocal and vitriolic ones are.

As a father himself I wonder what Misha would do if he found out that his kids were behaving in ways his Minions are? I’m aware they’re young, but kids are cruel and bullying doesn’t just happen online. Even at whatever age they are, would he laugh it off the way he appears to have done with all of this fandom toxicity? Not bloody likely! I wonder if he’s as desperate to gain the approval of his family, friends and colleagues as he appears to be for that of his Minions/Hellers? I would certainly hope so, but that question can only be answered by Misha, himself, and I can and will not presume to speak on someone else's behalf on things in their personal life. For the record I would never presume I know what J2's answers would be on anything, however I do feel that after 15 years I have an accurate gauge on what kind of people they are so would be confident that any opinion I had on a matter aligns with their morals and ethics. As much as J2 have shared of themselves with us - willingly and under no pressure to do so, I might add - we don't *know* them, but we know enough to have an informed opinion. I can’t say the same for Misha because based on the behaviour he’s repeatedly displayed, things I've heard about from other fans as well as people I know IRL who have had direct dealings with him through cons or GISH (including some very actively in the early days when it was GISHWHES) he just hasn’t seemed like a person I wanted to follow on SM. I’ve never watched any of his solo panels, though I have watched ones with both or one of the J's, mostly being left irritated because of his behaviour. Watching the J’s put up with that shit is painful, and it’s a testament to how good they are as actors that they managed to hide at least some of their disdain for as long as they did. Microexpressions give them away, particularly Jensen, and they certainly have faces I have spent many years watching closely. Beautiful faces to go with beautiful souls, both of them! <3

I have precisely ZERO interest in Destiel as a ship, very little interest in Cas as a character anymore (though I did like him in the early days,and his relationship with Jack in late seasons) so I have absolutely no reason or desire to follow anything Misha does. That said, I've obviously been peripherally aware of some things he's been involved in because of friends, from things I’ve seen on SM and general fandom stuff. Despite the things I've already mentioned about his behaviour, up until now I have been able to maintain a level of respect for him as a person because of the humanitarian and charity work he's done. He seems like someone who really does want to change the world for the better and I am in full support of that fact, so much so that I have supported TWO campaigns relating to him. I bought one of the Super Good t-shirts for the campaign he did with Michael Sheen (a true angel!), the SPN/Good Omens x-over to help homeless charities, and I chose the design with text only and not artwork of Michael and Misha on, basically because I didn’t want to be wearing something with Misha’s face on it and I make absolutely no apology for that, whatsoever. I also bought Alex's #TheEndHasNoEnd shirt, which some of the profits went to Random Acts who do great work, so again, despite not liking Misha I still willingly contributed for a cause bigger than me, and to support Alex, who I absolutely ADORE. I'm aware that Stands aren't popular with some of the fandom, however since most of the cast of SPN are happily affiliated with them then I don't feel it's my place to either judge, or to discuss topics I know next to nothing about. But I digress, as a decent human being I have shown support tangentially to a man who I don't care for out of respect for the work he does outside the fandom. Telling you this isn’t to paint myself in a good light - I don’t need your approval, I’m a big girl, unlike some I don’t need constant validation! - only to provide background on how I’ve actively *not* hated on Misha.

Now though, any respect I had for him has come to an abrupt end, the events of the past 24 hours has seen to that. Whilst I have been annoyed at his behaviour in regards to shipping, I don't feel it's ever gone this far, or at least not that I've seen first hand. This man has, IMO, contributed to so much toxicity in the fandom by way of things I've mentioned before, he's claimed - without actually saying the words - that Wincest fans weren't interested in him as a character when he came onto the show, and hasn’t felt included because of the fans’ love of the brothers. Um, hate to break it to you, love, but when you come onto an established show that is about two people, and you’re a *guest star* you can’t expect everyone to love you. Some characters we as individuals do fall in love with straight away (Bobby, Charlie, Crowley and Rowena are good examples for me), it takes time to establish a dynamic, so if that’s how he felt then it was incredibly naive of him as an actor to expect instant acceptance from anyone. Also, why wait until after the show finished to bring it up AGAIN … oh wait, yeah, that would be to step back into the limelight in a way intended to garner sympathy from Minions and INTENTIONALLY piss off bro fans and Wincest shippers alike? How fucking self centred, desperate and disrespectful do you have to be to shit all over the finale of a show that for the most part accepted you and kept you in paid work for 12 years? Well, Misha Collins levels of all of those things, obviously.  

So, on the topics of self centred, desperate to stay relevant, attention seeking and being oh so needy, the tweet yesterday from Amazon mentioned Castiel. He wasn’t tagged in it, so I refer to my earlier comment about searching online, because how else would he have possibly seen that? It’s possible someone sent it to him, I appreciate that, but if we go off past behaviour it’s not any stretch at all to believe that didn’t happen. So, once again, having seen the tweet he took it upon himself to - oh so predictably - turn it into something relating to Destiel. When I saw it I immediately rolled my eyes and thought ‘here we go again’, but then also had a little smile because I really liked the fact that he explicitly mentioned Wincest, therefore seeming to accept that his poor old dead horse wasn’t the only one in the race. I actually mentally tipped my hat to him then because it appeared that he’s matured enough to acknowledge by name the ship that predates his inclusion on the show. Great, I thought, this is a positive thing in a sea of negativity surrounding the man and his sunken ship, because what followed was Wincest trending in the US (it may also have been other countries as well but I had to sleep!) … largely due to the fact that Hellers were responding to it, calling him out on mentioning the dreaded ‘W’ word. I’ll repeat that because it’s been a rare occurrence up to that point… the Minions were actually disappointed with their overlord for mentioning another ship. We all know what they think of it and I for one, don’t give a flying fuck about their opionion. Ship and let ship, it’s all fun (or meant to be) so we have different tastes, that’s life kiddiwinks, deal with it. I mean, you really don’t have much of an example set for you when your king has proven several times over to be one of the biggest obnoxious brats out there, but just give it a try for your own sakes, yeah? Awesome, good on you, besties!

An unexpected development - to my joy and that of other Wincest shippers - them doing that got the topic trending, only *kept* trending by the fact that were all coming online asking why it was trending. Wincest shippers barely lifted a finger, we just flooded each other’s timelines with lovely content and basked in the Hellers - and Misha - shooting themselves in the foot, which was awesome. But did the vitriol stop? No. Did he get the attention he so clearly craves? Yes. Was it in the way he wanted? Fuck no, so poor, emotionally wounded baby backtracked after seeing that his name was trending alongside Wincest because that’s *so* not what someone narcissistic to do it in the first place, wanted.

Now here’s where I could easily have just moved on with an unusually fond chuckle, giving him an ironic pat on the back and a ‘thanks, Misha’ for being the one to instigate hours of fun, but once again his despicable behaviour made that impossible. It’s been more than obvious for many years that he cares more about what his fans think than anything else to do with the show and the fandom in a larger sense, but to delete the tweet and APOLOGISE for daring to be so insensitive to the snowflakes’ delicate sensibilities for mentioning Wincest in the first place was absolutely disgusting. Stating , “I used a term that I had never really given any thought to other than, "that's a thing?! Yuck." is not only complete and utter bullshit, it’s pandering of the highest order.  

We all know he has referred to Wincest on multiple occasions, so to say he hadn’t thought about is a flat out lie, which IMO is an insult to everyone, not just Wincest shippers. Does the man have no self respect at all, why would you contradict yourself in the face of such overwhelming evidence? Instead of either ignoring all the people calling him out, or addressing it with another tweet saying ‘yeah, that happened’ or something similar he chose, I repeat, CHOSE the route of claiming he didn’t realise he was being offensive to people who felt ‘triggered’ by him using the word Wincest. He basically shat all over an entire ship and large sector of the fandom in an attempt to appease his own fan base which consists of a lot of children (or those that act like children) who have no idea what RL is like.

Once again, he’s reinforced the idea that if you shout loud enough at someone just because you don’t like something they said, they will back down and apologise for something even when there’s nothing to apologise for. If he wants to be such a role model then he could easily have pointed out that a fictional ship doesn’t condone RL incest, any ACTUAL trauma people have suffered because of RL situations, and made an effort to make sure people understand that. He COULD have used it as an opportunity to do some good in the fandom by encouraging people to build bridges, to accept that people are entitled to their beliefs and that sometimes we see things differently but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t treat others with BASIC HUMAN DECENCY because of it. Instead he YET AGAIN chose to show that he cares more about what Minions think of him, keeping them onside to constantly stroke his unbelievably fragile ego in everything he does.

It is my understanding that Misha is big on (or claims to be big on) putting positive energy out into the world, treating people with respect, helping others and accepting people for who they are, not who you want them to be… all this after YEARS of consistently practising what he preaches only when it suits him. He sends out a message that it’s perfectly OK to bully, to spread hate, to draw attention to yourself at the cost of others, to throw colleagues and friends under the bus and at the same time use them to further your own agenda and get hits for your YouTube channel. Is this really the legacy he wants to leave? Is this an environment he wants his own kids to grow up in as well as future generations? Is this what he thinks is a valuable contribution as a human being? JFC, the arrogance, hypocrisy and the need for constant validation this man exhibits is nothing short of cringeworthy… actually it’s beyond that. It’s deplorable behaviour, it’s not new, and he will continue to act like this for as long as he’s being enabled and this harmful cycle needs to end.

I have friends IRL and online who are (now, possibly, were) big Misha fans, who have supported him from either the beginning of his run on the show, or since they started watching, and this is how he repays this behaviour? He’s willfully alienating decent people (including multishippers) all to make himself look good by being seen to do everything he can not to offend people. Spoiler alert, you DID offend people, you continue to do so time and again and we’ve had enough. I can’t imagine how exhausting it must be to be such a perpetual people pleaser, but let me say it’s not doing you any favours in any way, shape or form.

Misha, you are *not* a role model, you’re *not* someone to look up to when you can't live up to the ideals you preach. You’re spitting in the face of people who have supported you even after some questionable things in the past, who gave you the benefit of the doubt because we’re all human and we all make mistakes. The key to growing as a person is not to keep repeating the same mistakes over and over, understanding *why* what you said and/or did was a mistake and making a concerted effort to make changes. I don’t ever see you doing that, you will continue down this path of only caring about Minions under the guise of caring for people in general. You are transparent, you are sad and despite the fact I’ve never particularly liked you, I didn’t speak up because I didn’t want to get involved in the drama. Well now I have spoken up and I’m saying you’re a disgrace, you have no respect for other people and nobody is fooled anymore. If it hadn’t been this tweet it would have been something else, but I for one am glad it happened so soon after the show ended so we can finally be rid of the limpet-like behaviour. It’s over, let it go for the sake of what dignity you might have left, for the sake of your family and friends and for the sake of anyone who isn’t capable of seeing through your ‘it’s a joke’ mentality.

You have been weighed, you have been measured and you have been found wanting. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, Misha.

For anyone who made it to the end of my ramble, thank you. This has been a cathartic exercise and I’m drawing a line under it now, I don’t think I could possibly make my thoughts any clearer. I urge you not to get caught up in any petty squabbles with his Minions, let’s celebrate J2 and other cast and crew members who have shown us all respect and who I am proud to call part of the SPN family. There’s always one member of the family who needs to be frozen out for the good of everyone else.

[autisticandroids]

19 for the salty asks?

19. What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom?

i mean i have to say that basically everything bad about the 2022 supernatural fandom is like. literally universal to all big-ish fandoms. like spn isn't bad compared to some. of the more fandom-particular things, even stuff that annoys me personally isn't something i would say i hate. like, i joke about being oppressed by Big Deangirl, but honestly sometimes i find that stuff endearing and refreshing. i don't participate in parasocializing Actors, but i find it entertaining when people do.

like, there's stuff i find really obnoxious like, say, j2 stans who get in people's notes and pick fights, but the supernatural fandom is so aggressively factionalized and siloed that those people are functionally in a completely different fandom than i am. like we're just not going to ever interact. we here on destiel tumblr think of the small group of people generally referred to as "sam stans" as very different from us, but in terms of the wider factionalization of the supernatural fandom, they're closer to our siblings than anything else. like, they're non-bronly gay people who on the whole like and care about cas, view the show through a fairly critical lens, are uncomfortable with incest, and engage in fandom in a tumblr-y manner, using modern tumblr social norms. hellers and sam stans have slapfights because our lenses for the show are pretty different, but we're basically conceptual neighbors. as opposed to say, serious bronlies, j2 shippers, reddit fans, straight guys who are really into dean winchester, et cetera et cetera et cetera. like, hellers and sam stans are barely in the same fandom, but hellers and the people i just listed are living on different planets. i wouldn't call them the "same fandom."

[suddenlysundayisspnj2fanlw]

This is really interesting to see from a former destiel shipper. And it is the problem unfortunately. It's not the ship I don't like it's the insistence it's canon and real. None of the other spn ship fandoms do that that I've seen. The rest of us all play and have fun and try to respect each other. Heck I've read and greatly enjoyed other ships like Sam/Crowley (duck ragu by applecrumbledore was absolutely delicious and a fav fic even though it's not my ship) Dean/Crowley and their summer of demon love lol, Sam/Rowena can be hot and so sweet, Dean/Benny is just plain yummy and Gabriel is fun with anybody. I love Megstiel and Cas/Crowley as they have so much chemistry in the show it easily translates to fic. sastiel is interesting especially when they look at Cas getting to know Sam and changing his mind from seeing him as an abomination to the courageous young man trying to stand up to fate and say no way. And although I hate Lucifer/Sam stuff because of what he did to Sam I don't have an issue with other people shipping it or writing/reading it. If they see it good for them but hard pass for me. If I was a heller I would feel the need to try to ground those fans to dust and rip apart their ship viciously as well as the actors themselves but I'm not so guess what, I just pass it by and go on my way. Sometimes I might even give them props when they point out something interesting. But the one ship I won't read (and this is from before I even started shipping as the first two years I watched I didn't romanticize the show) is destiel and that's because of the fandom and the way they made me and others feel. And the hate they heaped on Jared himself cause you know he exists and is on the show when it's supposedly about Dean and Cas🤷 anyway that's been MY experience. Also yes yes yes, Dean has chemistry with everyone and everything. That boy oooozes sexual tension and the lip licking, oh god!!!!! So you could pair him with just about anyone and it would work.

Anti-destiel Wank (sorry but I have to)

If you hardcore ship Destiel, please just scroll on by. Please.

Ok, I’m gonna get myself in trouble, I’m sure, but I gotta get this off my chest…

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