#it's evil when you remember something but can't find the source. i'm losing my mind.

[necrotic-nephilim]

reblogging bc there are so many *fantastic* points added here and things i want to riff off of just because you brought up so many fantastic things in this whole discussion i want to ramble about in no particular order

i am *absolutely* with you on the "canon!Helena is fanon!Jason" posts. i'm a huge Helena Bertinelli fan, i'd go so far as to say she might be my favorite character of all time and i care about knowing everything there is to know about her. like i'm a Batfamily fan, but i'm *really* a Huntress fan. and while i think the lighthearted jokes about how women in the Batfamily get ignored for the men, as you said because of the misogyny in Migratory Slash Fandom, and how you can draw similarities to Jason and Helena, i think it's such a *wild* disservice to Helena to call her fanon!Jason. and frankly, what fans like about fanon!Jason (his relationship with Bruce, his trauma, how he reacts to it, his childhood as Robin) are *not* things you'll find in any Huntress comic. besides some surface parallels you can draw about "elder Batfam kid who's got a weird complex about Bruce and is pro-murder", she exists on her own.

then again, as you said, i see people wanting fanfic for things that exist in canon comics. i have seen headcanons where "Jason is Catholic and becomes an English teacher and protects women and children and adopts a kid and totally tells Bruce off while still being close to Tim/Dick/etc" and my impulse thought is. a little pained that these people haven't heard of Huntress, when she canonically is all of the things people headcanon Jason as, particularly the headcanons that make little sense for him. that said, i don't think you're going to convince any fan, Jason stan or not, to read a Huntress comic by dragging him down. it feels sort of reactionary? like people are course-correcting *too much* to fix the racism and misogyny in fandom by boosting up the women and characters of color, but still only doing it through the lense of comparing them to the popular cishet white (or whitewashed, in the case of Damian and Dick) male characters. which, if the only way you feel you can convince people to read about women or poc in comics is by comparing them to men, i don't think you're making the point you think you are about them. because frankly i think creating so much fan content about Helena surround Jason defeats the point of her existing on her own. and it's not like these fans are purposefully stealing traits from Helena to make Jason cooler in their head, most of them don't know she exists. so shoving her in their faces both makes it harder to find genuine content about Helena, and makes Jason fans reactionary toward the mention of her.

which is frustrating, when fanon-only fans start trying to include the women and characters of colors they flat out don't understand, for fear they'll look bigoted if left out. but because they don't understand these characters whatsoever, we end up with popular headcanons that make *no* concept of sense. see specifically: the idea of Duke being "the normal one" because fanon-only fans don't really know what to *do* with him. they know he exists but they don't seem to want to learn about him outside of that, they just want the brownie points for including him. the same extends to Cass, for me the painful fanon is with her using ASL to communicate which makes *zero* sense for her disability and is a headcanon that at best is cute but misguided, and at worst views all Deaf/mute disabilities as interchangeable and easily "fixable" by ASL. (this one may be a tad personal to me as a Deaf fan lol, but this post really gets into the nuances of it) like honestly: i'd far rather fanon-only spaces just flat out go back to leaving these characters out because at least then, they were honest about not knowing or caring about them. whereas now you only get this half-hearted, shallow "the only content for this character is posts that mass tag every single Batfamily member mentioned even once" inclusion for the brownie points.

i think your point about fanon changing is *fascinating* because it's something i've noticed so heavily. i got into the Batfamily in my early teens, dropped off for a bit when the MCU and Winter Soldier comics became my primary special interest, and then as an adult when i came back into the space i was *baffled* by how things had changed. because i actually *do* remember a time when the fanon Jason Todd was a sexist horndog who was so mean to poor Timmy but also his protector. i remember when you couldn't *escape* where every interaction Jason had with Damian in headcanons, incorrect quotes, or fanfic culminated in a "well I fucked your mom" joke. (which, was so *weird* in the first place but i'm begging people to let go because even Winick, the guy who wrote that comic, agrees it shouldn't have happened and it was weird.) i distinctly remember everyone agreeing Jason was the mean, violent Robin who got himself killed with his own recklessness (which tbf, some canon DC content still agrees with this, Death in the Family was frankly a messy comic in hindsight and if not for its cultural significance, i firmly believe would be regarded as poorly written) and was a big mean asshole as Red Hood. and like, to be honest if you went off of RHATO (2011), yeah, i'd see why Jason being a weird sexist freak sort of became a thing. but now we've done this complete 180 and it feels like people are course correcting too hard. now, it's all "Jason was a sunshine boy as Robin, look at this out of context panel where he says being Robin gave him magic, and as Red Hood he's a sad depressed traumatized boy protecting women and children, who's mistreated by everyone" which feels just as incorrect. Jason's Robin years were a shitshow of inconsistent writing (imo the only good story of Robin!Jason is Batman: the Cult) that's hard to parse anything out of, but to act like Jason was this ball of sunshine ignores his most important arcs as Robin. (how he reacts to believing Two-Face killed his father, how he reacts during the infamous Felipe incident, so on) i recently had a *very* long argument with someone in a TikTok comment section because they refused to believe Jason was a villain and kept insisting he wasn't, even when i was directly quoting the *writers of his comics* at them (comics this person admitted they hadn't read) simply because they were so attached to Jason being this misunderstood antihero.

and the same has happened to Tim too. Tim has always been all over the place in fanon, but like you pointed out, there's this spike in a *ridiculously* cartoonishly evil portrayal of the Drakes for the sake of projection onto Tim. at their worst you could say the Drakes were possibly neglectful out of sheer cluelessness rather than malice. but to act as though they never even hug or look at him and he's a poor boy who had to raise himself is so wild. it's a complicated headcanon for me because there are certainly versions of the "Tim's parents were kind of shitty" headcanon i enjoy (and i'm not ashamed to say that's entirely projection) but it's become so ridiculous you can't find content where his parents genuinely care. or worse, you end up in arguments with people about whether or not his parents were neglectful, and their sources are shaky at best. Tim has suffered the most from the blorbofication of fanon, specifically how fanon likes to take a character and give them an "oh everyone has been mean and awful to you and lookit how terrible they treated you except this One Character who Understands You and yells at everyone for mistreating you and is now your Protector". and, i understand the projection fantasy of that, this idea of someone suddenly noticing how mistreated you are and using Tim as a slate for that. usually it's Jason who's the savior of Tim, or any other character you can slash him with, like Kon. so you have to create fanon like "Dick tried to send Tim to Arkham" or take canon moments like "Damian cut Tim's line as a murder attempt" (nevermind the genuine justification Damian had for his anger, as well as the fact this wasn't even a real murder attempt and Tim wasn't hurt or bothered by it beyond a "what the hell???" moment) just to strip Tim of people who care about him to stick him in that unrealistic scenario.

honestly, not to sidebar too long but as a lover of Red Robin (2009) it's one of my biggest gripes about how people misunderstand that comic. the point of that arc for Tim is not "look at how awful everyone treats him and no one believes him so he has to work alone and be this uber badass who's so isolated and misunderstood bc everyone is just so awful to him". the *point* is "look at Tim who is purposefully self-isolating because of his grief and consistently pushing away his loved ones trying to reach out because Tim's worst fear as a character is becoming like Bruce, hyper-paranoid and driving everyone away and that is what he is actively doing in this arc and his turning point is being willing to accept help and verbatim saying 'i'm not like Batman, i have friends' because he breaks the cycle of self harm that Bruce can't". it's so *frustrating* to me, the recent fascination with taking this comic so out of context for fanon, because the whole *point* is Tim is his worst enemy. not how supposedly awful characters like Dick are for... saying Tim might need therapy or for telling him he's ready to move on from being Robin because he's grown past the role. but instead of delving into Tim's actual arc during this run, people tout around a few panels of it so they can force him into the fanon arc they *want* him to have. which isn't really an arc at all, it's just a stereotype of a character that Tim isn't to begin with.

and then the fanon shift has also badly clocked Bruce- we went from at least managing to agree he was sort of the worst as a dad to now if Bruce is a bad dad in the comics that's OOC and terrible and awful and why do you want Bruce to be mean to his kids. the meme you shared from 2014 feels so funny in hindsight a decade later with how Bruce is the one fanon has flipped the hardest on. and my personal theory on why that change has been so vicious is because initially, Batfanon was a victim of Migratory Slash Fandom, people moving in on these characters because they were pretty boys who you could ship together, to it now being a victim of... i guess for lack of any other name, Migratory Found Family Fandom. there's this real want in fandom nowadays for found family to come first and to be highlighted on. it's becoming a marketing term at this point, and i regularly see people say they got into the Batfamily because they wanted a cutesy found family. (i also blame this for the rise in antis in the Batfamily fandom as of recent- if people are here for the found family and these sibling bonds they've constructed in their heads, they react with hostility to headcanons/ships that disagree with that, like batcest) so if you want a cute found family, you have to convince yourself Bruce is a good dad all the time and actively push against any content that says otherwise, even canon content.

and oh my *god*, the Titans Tower Incident and all its AUs. dare i say, my most controversial opinion in the Batfamily fandom is this: i don't think that comic is actually that OOC for Jason. he's over the top and garish about it, but really, when *isn't* Jason being dramatic during this era. if you compare it to Jason's actions during this era, specifically how he reacts to other teen sidekicks (see the whole kidnapping Mia Dearden and blowing up her school in a Green Arrow arc) it really isn't out of form for him. the only part of it that feels cringey is him well, wearing that ridiculous Robin suit. but i think that existed for meta reasons of reminding readers who Jason Todd was. (if you're only a Teen Titans reader and not keeping up with the Batman run, Jason's revival is still fresh enough that you may need to be reminded who the hell he even *is*. we all forget that during that era of comics Jason wasn't known how he is now. i was speaking to a relative who used to read comics decades ago about the Batfamily and passingly mentioned Jason and he was blown away Jason was revived and didn't know at all Jason was alive. i had that conversation only a year ago. putting Jason in the Robin suit wasn't because he's a dramatic rat, it was to show readers who he was in the first place so i defend the choice, personally.) when you actually look at Jason's actions, he's *not* trying to kill Tim. he's testing Tim and making a point about how easy it is for anyone to just break into Titans Tower and target a defenseless teen sidekick- because one of Jason's main beliefs at this point was there shouldn't *be* teen sidekicks. his death should've been a wake up call to the hero community. and by the end of it, he has an honest respect for Tim, there's no real hatred on Jason's side for Tim as a person, he just hates the idea the Robin mantle didn't end with his death. and as for Tim. Tim is really... nonplussed by the whole thing. he's mocking Jason the whole time, even as he's getting beaten and it clearly holds no lasting effects on him other than giving him a distaste for someone he didn't like in the first place. but all these AUs from fanon-only fans who only understand the incident as "omg Jason went to Titans Tower and beat Tim up for no reason" make just... painful fanfiction out of it. which sucks because i'd love exploration of that moment that *actually* considers Jason's canon motivations and feelings, as well as Tim's canon reactions and feelings in fanfiction, shipping or not. but instead everything is about how Tim was so battered and defenseless and Jason was a horrible person. or, if the fanon is trying to be transgressive, it's Jason for some reason deciding to take Tim in after this moment and deciding to be Tim's savior. because once again, that seems to be the only way Tim and Jason can exist in fanon. Jason is big and mean to Tim until he Sees The Light and saves Tim from the cruel world because he's the only one who sees Tim for how he is.

and of course, the "Justice League meets the Batfamily" thing. besides what i already said -how it uproots characters of important relationships for silly crack- i think the weirdest part to me is it forces every character to be a Batman clone. they must be this weird cryptid crawling around Gotham who never leaves the city and never makes friends. and worse, it gives Bruce a *freakish* level of control over them. like i always read these fics (bc i swear, i've given them the college try.) and my lingering thought is "this is supposed to be silly fluff/crack but somehow it's created a deeply insidious implication about the Batfamily) because you're telling me every single member of the Batfamily, with their own agency, their own views on what being a hero should be, their own goals, has whole-heartedly nodded and agreed to Bruce's loner ideologies? they're fine with Bruce playing ball in the big Leagues while they all sit and only exist at his beck and call in Gotham? that's so fucking *weird* to me. (and granted: the only way i think i could get behind this AU is if you went just balls to the walls with how fucked up that is and making it weird and dark and abusive. now if someone wrote that. that i would fucking devour.) at that point they're not characters with agency, they're just Bruce's little minions. which is *weird*, given the fact half of them don't like Bruce on any given day, and the other half definitely are *not* listening to his orders or wanting him to father them. like, if i can pretend for just a second that the League doesn't ever read the Gotham Gazette or look at the news in Gotham to notice there's definitely other heroes crawling around. if I can pretend for a moment Nightwing can totally exist without Superman knowing him even though Clark *gave him the name*. if i can suspend that disbelief. i *can't* suspend the disbelief that every one of these characters can remain in character, expressing their own agency, and yet never leave Gotham/never interact with the League. Bruce has to be holding a power over them to be forcing them to stay in Gotham which is both no fun and weird. which i think fanon consistently misunderstands about all of these characters. there's this belief everyone in the Batfamily has a loyalty to Bruce and will always defact to following his orders. as if most of them are not actively doing the opposite. because Bruce isn't really the patriarch of this "family". there is no patriarch. they just co-exist and build relationships and then fight about it.

of course, the point of that concept is that you're not supposed to think about it too hard. it exists because there's this fun to the fantasy of "omg the League has no idea the totally cool and badass Batfamily exists and could totally school them" in that projection sort of way. which is why i think it exists. it's the projection and the comedy potential of cardboard cut outs with the names of canon characters doing slapstick routines. which is what a lot of the Batfamily fanon is. no deep thoughts about the canon, just whatever silly ideas you can plaster onto it. this isn't unique to the Batfamily, it's really just a thing of how fandom works and always will work, but it feels particularly worse in a fandom driven by fanon. because like you said, comics can be difficult to read on just a simple craft level. i also don't actually love the medium as an art form, i regularly cannot tell what order shit is being said in. and some older comics are just. hard to read. they flat out are difficult to even understand. i love Huntress (1989) and Batman: the Cult on like. a story level. but as for actually enjoying how the comic read? ngl i was not having fun. but that's just the medium, take it or leave it. and some fans are going to leave it, hence voraciously consuming adaptation content, but not the comics.

funnily enough, i once actually saw a fan go on and on about how much they loved Jason and how they were an expert because they'd... memorized his fandom wiki. like that goes to show the lengths people will go to, to not read the medium. and i'm not saying that's a bad thing or you're not a real fan, but to say you're an expert from a wiki feels... presumptuous, is the kindest way i'll put it. but it exemplifies what is important to fanon. knowing the events that happened, but not their contexts and their emotional impacts. you can react about something in a wiki and decide to run with it, insisting your headcanon/fanfic is based on canon. canon moments don't exist to genuinely be interacted with, just used as malleable concepts you can shape into whatever best fits your fanon opinion.

and like you brought up, some fanon only fans will start to pick up comics and shape their interaction with canon through the lense of fanon. sure, if you stretch it hard enough, you can say the Drakes neglect Tim in canon. but that's clearly not the intent, and that interpretation exists on the predication of the fanon you already believed. and you can do that with any Batfamily character, all you have to do is sweep under the rug comics that don't fit your purview with the "well it's OOC" argument, or "that writer sucks though" argument. which just isn't how comics as a medium work, but even if that is true, an OOC comic can still be very important canon that you need to be willing to interact with at least a little bit to understand the character. (see: Battle for the Cowl) and i get why that can be so frustrating, to beginners. it feels easier and safer to fall back onto the simplicities of fanon where you don't have to critically think about it all. that's not a dig, there are times i don't want to critically think about my blorbos, i just want them to kiss. but if that was the only way i interacted with fandom, i personally don't think i'd be having a lot of fun. and like you said, it's weird we get interpreted as rude for politely suggesting people read comics. or worse, politely correcting people on misinformation about comics. the arguments i have had about comics simply because i wanted to politely correct someone and i was seen as a buzzkill fun hater. when the issue isn't with the fanon, it's with saying the fanon is canon. (not DC related, but i got into a heated argument because someone repeatedly claimed that Peter Parker was "only recently" an adult in comics and when they were corrected on no, he's been an adult since the 60s you just clearly don't read comics and that's okay just don't talk about what you don't know, they backtracked and claimed their issue was with fans portraying him as a minor in a specific ship. which, is a different conversation and not the one they started and made them point fingers at the people correcting them. it's exhausting and i've had the debate constantly.)

it's so weird how comic fans have been turned into the bad guys of a fandom *centered around comics*. assholes will be abound for any opinion camp, and sure i've met comic purists who made me roll my eyes a little bit because at a certain point, do you like fan content at *all*. but i've also run into fanon only fans who are very negative and rude about not reading comics but also defend their headcanons supposedly being canon compliant. it sort of feels like you can't win. a part of me dies when i see posts asking for fic recs for a specific Batfamily member so they can write that character well in their own fic. it's like watching the blind lead the blind. recently, a tiktoker, when a comment asked them honestly how to get into the Batfamily, said with their full chest to go straight to Ao3 first. and i can't help but wonder if some fans are so disconnected from the source material they don't even know how it exists. sure, comics are hard to get into, but like you said, there are approachable ways to do it. but because some fans are playing fic of theseus (i'm stealing that btw that's delightful) they've convinced themselves The Comics™ are this nebulous and unapproachable concept they never go near because it'll just never ever make sense. and it pains me a lot to witness that.

@sasheneskywalker i love when you enable me to ramble about things because oh my god do i have thoughts.

so recently, i made a post discussing the phenomena of DC x DP and DC x MLB crossovers and why they exist and part of that post was discussing how largely speaking, at least half, if not more of the Batfamily fandom doesn't read the comics. if they interact with canon DC material, it's adaptations that are their own sequestered universes and oftentimes not remotely comic accurate or seeking to be. the most obvious example is the Young Justice cartoon. i'm adding a cut to this post because it just got so long i'm so sorry.

a lot of times, when people are discussing the "why" of this oversaturation of fanon-only fandom, they blame Wayne Family Adventures. and i think, to a point, i agree WFA is responsible for a boom in this fandom. but as someone who's been in the fandom long before we had WFA, to me it's the other way around. WFA was DC's way of meeting the demand for this easy-to-get-into, easy-to-consume content about the Batfamily that predicates itself on the comics just enough to be vaguely the same characters, but has a more sitcom, slice-of-life sort of vibe so DC could profit off of this section of the fanbase that otherwise wasn't consuming its primary material. and well, it's definitely worked. not only that, but i have a weird theory that the decline in the MCU also led to the rise in the Batfamily fandom. when you consider the fan content that made the MCU popular within fandom, it's that 2012 "they all live in Avengers Tower and Thor is eating poptarts and Clint is in the vents and there are movie nights every Friday" sort of vibe. those were the fics that were a hallmark of the fandom. and as the MCU has strayed from well... quality content in general, but specifically well-thought-out crossover content where characters can have their own arcs but also exist in a wider story where they clearly care about each other, that fandom was sort of homeless. so where do you go, if you like a superhero found family where you can have villains for angst but also stick them all in one big family-like home for silly crack and have a plethora of options for gay ships? well. you go to the Batfamily. if you write a crack/fluff Batfamily genfic with silly vibes and low stakes instead of say, a fic about a very specific comic issue even if it's a popular comic, you're *going* to get more traction for the former. because the fanbase largely just isn't reading the comics.

and i feel... complicated about this. because on one hand, Don't Like Don't Read has been a tenet of my fandom experience. i'm very pro-fandom and that includes fandom content i don't like. and to an extent, i do think this sort of should apply to Batfamily fanon. i enjoy having my moments with other comic purists, giggling over exceptionally painful OOC headcanons or even facepalming in pain over some content but it is on me to not interact with that content. you don't make fandom a better place by being hostile to fans who engage with canon in ways you don't approve of. and frankly? we as comic readers are not going to get non-comic fans to read the comics by being asshats to them. no one is going to want to pick up any comic if we get a superiority complex about it. and also, i feel like we're all lying to ourselves a little bit insisting comics are so, so easy to get into. they're not. we can just all agree, they're really not. i've been single-handedly helping my sister get into comics, specifically Wonder Woman and no matter how simple i make it, i watch her get frustrated trying to understand what pre-Crisis and post-Crisis and New-52 and Flashpoint and all these things mean and what a retcon vs a reboot is and what a Crisis Event is and what the hell Diana's current backstory even *is*. sure, you can give someone a beginner list of comics to start with and slowly dip their toes in the water but sooner or later, *something* is going to confuse them. comics as a medium straight up aren't going to be everyone's cup of tea. and if someone *just* wants to read silly fluffy fanfiction about the Batfamily, i can't entirely begrudge them for not wanting to take the hours and hours out of their day to understand this medium. it's not an accessible medium to get into. "read this and this, but this run is out of print and this run wasn't collected in trades at all but also make sure you read that event in order and this is a good comic but the backstory in it is retconned and you *have* to read this it's so important but it's also really bad because the author kind of sucks" sounds. ridiculous for someone who like. just wants to read some stuff about Nightwing. sometimes, we all make reading comics sort of sound like a chore, not a hobby.

so my point is, i do extend some grace to Batfamily fanon for existing. i think my biggest gripe is, as i said in my other post, misuse of tags (if you're not creating content about comics, maybe you don't need the comics fandom tag on Ao3, just the all media types umbrella tag) and my far bigger gripe: when panels are taken out of context to support fanon only headcanons. if i could impart *anything* onto the Batfamily fandom as a comic fan it'd be this: if you haven't *read* the comic, don't spread the panel. if you don't even know what comic it's *from*, don't spread the panel. it's fine to use comic panels to discuss your headcanons, but so often i see someone spreading a comic panel from a comic they haven't read, and when asked where it's from, they can't source it. a silly example that comes to mind is a post going around, taking a panel where Dick, in his internal monologue goes "here comes the sun. do do do do." and the post is claiming it's from him getting buried alive. when that panel comes from Nightwing (1996) #140, and he gets buried alive in Nightwing (1996) #127, two completely different moments frankensteined together. if you're going to not read the comics, that's completely fine, but unless you're sure of the source and the context, panels shouldn't be spread around. i'm sick of this specifically happening to Red Robin (2009), with ppl claiming Tim has totally killed people because he blew up some of Ra's' bases, when those panels within context, make it clear he gave everyone time to escape. and in a later arc in that very comic, Tim grapples with the idea of murdering Captain Boomerang, and *specifically chooses not to*, because he doesn't agree with murder, even against the person who has hurt him the most. if you'd like to write fanfiction where Tim is pro-murder and has done some sketch things, i'm totally on board and would probably like to read it. but there's no need to pretend it's canon from a few panels you saw out of context.

beyond that, i think it's not *entirely* correct to say that fanon is harmless. whenever i see very WFA-positive posts, they often default to the argument that WFA is fun and silly, and comic fans are killjoys for not liking it. which. i think is complicated because the issue is, WFA and fanon don't exist in a vacuum. if you like WFA power to you, i don't think it's the worst thing ever, but i do think it's degrading to these characters because honestly? they feel incompetent in the webtoon. it's one thing if WFA was solely a slice-of-life sort of deal, just having silly episodes where Bruce is taking on a PTA mom or they're all fighting for the last cookie. but when WFA attempts to take on more serious plots with these characters, it *fundamentally* falls flat in understanding them. i get it, Bruce comforting Jason having a panic attack because a noise reminded him of the crowbar felt cute in a microcosm, but i'm so serious when i say that storyline destroyed how like. half of this fandom understands Jason Todd's relationship to his trauma. it doesn't understand how he reacts when he's triggered, what coping mechanisms he seeks out, and how he would handle Bruce comforting him. even if i can believe for a brief moment Jason *would* be triggered by something like that, him running and trying to hide and then getting a hug from Bruce to make it okay is just. painful. WFA needs everything to be wrapped up in a nice, neat little bow. so even when it starts to tackle interesting concepts, it makes them fall flat with its need to be soft, low stakes, hurt/comfort. there was a two-parter episode that dealt with the complicated mutual hatred/jealousy between Tim and Damian that *almost* really interested me because for once, it felt like the webtoon wanted to explore canon messy dynamics. but of course, it had to be fixed with one conversation and a hug. you don't mend the *years* of issues these characters have like that. WFA isn't in character because these characters are hyperbole cartoonified versions of themselves to fit within the medium and be a cute happy family.

because that right there, is the crux of it. the Batfamily fanon seeks to simplify the Batfamily and force them into a nuclear family. there are so many fantastic posts on here discussing how the nuclear family-ification of the Batfam is eroding decades worth of complex histories so i won't go too far into that. but what i will say is that there's this need, in the Batfamily fandom, for the Batfamily to exist as a unit. they are a *family*. (honestly i think calling it the Batfamily is a misnomer and has been for years but we're in too deep now.) they exist to each other first, and any teams or friends they have come secondary to this family unit. you can *specifically* see this demonstrated in what headcanons are becoming popular these days. i have an entire lengthy meta in my drafts about how i *loathe* the "the Batfamily meets the Justice League" genre of fanfic because it makes no *sense*. in order to have this genre of fic exist, you must operate under the assumption that no one in the League, or adjacent to the League, knows the Batfamily exists and are thus utterly shocked to discover Batman has kids. and to make *that* work, you have to strip *every single Batfamily member* of such important dynamics and friendships so you can lock them all in Gotham for their whole lives. Dick can't have the Titans, Tim can't have Young Justice, Duke & Cass can't have the Outsiders, Jason can't have the Outlaws, Damian can't have the Supersons, Babs can't have the Birds of Prey, and so on. because if they had these relationships, they would be known to the League. the Batfamily fandom doesn't care about this, it's just "silly fanfiction", it's not trying to be serious. but how can you say you like Dick Grayson as a character if you don't understand the Titans *are* his family? at some points of his life, moreso than the Batfamily even is. it is constantly repeated to us in most comics with Dick how much the Titans mean to him. he *needs* them to be who he is. the same extends to every other Batfamily member, most of which have been full League members at this point. but in fanon, that doesn't matter. the Batfamily are a sequestered unit first, and all of those side relationships are secondary and easy to toss away, if it makes your fanfic work better.

and because they have to be a unit first, you have these forced relationships that dump years of actual canon material for the sake of making them get along. the Batfamily fandom has its favorites and well. it's no secret it's usually the boys. Jason and Tim by *far* stand out as fandom faves so, their dynamic is a heavily explored one. it does matter that in canon they don't tend to get along and especially don't see each other as family. what matters is that you can push dynamics onto them. and so fanon gets all twisted up about which Robin Tim actually idolized as a kid (Dick) and what member of the Batfamily is pro-murder but still an older sibling figure to him and looks out for him (Helena, or if you want the dynamic of once tried to harm Tim but they've reconciled, Jean-Paul) in favor of who's the most popular. Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian are always going to be the standouts for popularity, but it's specifically Jason and Tim who are getting fanonized the most. and that's because really, we don't have much canon content of Tim that *isn't* the comics. for Dick you've got Young Justice (tv), for Damian you've got the DCAMU, for Jason you've sort of got the Under The Red Hood movie, but Tim sort of lingers in this limbo. (yes, he's in Young Justce (tv) and Titans (live action) but in neither is he the main character nor given much depth) so, he gets a *lot* projected onto him and has become fanonized. and even with Jason's animated movies, you don't see him interact with Tim, so people build it from the ground up how they want to see it, disregarding of canon comics. i think it's what makes him so popular in the first place- he's malleable into whatever you want or need him to be.

and of course, the fanon ignores other characters in the Batfamily it doesn't know about. i feel like you could create a tier list of Batfamily characters by their popularity, going from the fandom main characters: Tim, Jason, Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Damian. to the underrated: Steph, Duke, Babs, Cass. to the forgotten about unless they're convenient for a story: Kate, the Foxes, Helena Wayne, Carrie, Selina, Harper Row, Maps, Minhkhoa Khan. to the absolutely unknown: Helena Bertinelli, Jean-Paul Valley, Onyx Adams, the Clovers, Julia Pennyworth. it's not lost on me that the ignored characters tend to be women and people of color. which is both a canon and fanon problem, DC will continue adding interesting characters to the Batfamily, play with them for a few years, then drop them to default to the "Batboys" again. and it's a vicious cycle of the fandom only caring about the "Batboys", and thus people entering the fandom via fanon osmosis won't have content about the other characters, therefore, they won't be interested in those characters enough to create it, and it's just this ouroboros consuming itself, no matter how much canon content we have of these other characters. and it's ridiculous just how large the Batfamily is becoming because of this, which is why i'm a pre-Flashpoint fan, because then the Batfamily was contained enough to actually feel like a family with every character having nuances relationships with each other, but i digress because those thoughts could be their own post.

and the thing about fanon is it doesn't exist in a vacuum. DC has started turning the comics to accommodate for what fans are asking for, because fans will beg and beg for content they're not going to consume. Tim Drake: Robin had Tim as a coffee drinker because that's the fanon accepted headcanon. and the resolution of the recent Gotham War arc was for Bruce to buy this new manor for everyone to move in and call him. nevermind that most of these characters have their own homes and have zero reason to be moving in with Bruce. Tim had his marina in Tim Drake: Robin, Dick has Bludhaven, Cass and Steph have their little side of town in Batgirls (2022), and so on. these characters are being forced together as a unit, as one big happy family living together, to appease what non-comic fans want and it's damaging comic relationships. Robin: Knight Terrors saw Jason and Tim team up and working together, which i've seen varying opinions on but i personally despised. their interactions made zero sense for any of their canon history, but it appeases them being this close sibling relationship that fanon acts like they are. also the fears they faced in their respective knight terrors didn't make sense for either character and *only* worked as a moment of bringing them together so they could reassure each other and have this weird dreamscape bonding moment. the canon is bending itself to the will of fanon rather than building on the pre-existing complex relationships. Tim barely even gets along with his most important team in Dark Crisis: Young Justice because it seems the only important relationships the Batfamily can have is with each other. and when we do see them outside of the Batfamily, it only seems to be to relive the glory days like with World's Finest: Teen Titans, instead of developing them as they currently exist. this isn't recent in the comics, it feels like you can trace it back to the New-52, but it does feel a *lot* worse over the recent years. WFA is fine when it exists in its own bubble, but the simple truth is, DC content never exists on its own. the adaptations will reflect back onto the comics. (the damage the Young Justice cartoon has done to some characters should honestly be studied) and so it does frustrate me a bit when fanon-only or adaptation-only fans act like we're being nothing but killjoys for being frustrated with this. since they don't read the comics, they don't see how the comics are suffering as a result of this.

people argue about what's out of character for the comics they don't even read. i'm sorry, but "bad dad Bruce" is consistently canon. that man is just kind of shitty. when you take someone who has the drive he has, who has this need for the Mission first, who needs a teenager in spandex next to him to keep him off the ledge, that guy is sort of going to be a shitty father figure. he just is. not on purpose or with malice, but when you compare him to any other dad in a big DC family, he sure takes the cake. it's why characters like Oliver Queen tend to *really* fucking hate Bruce for how he treats his kids. Bruce loves fiercely, but he doesn't do well with putting that love first. and his love is a controlling one, he is very particular about controlling how others in the Batfamily are "allowed" to operate. it's what drives the wedge between him and Dick, it's why Steph is never a true daughter to him. (besides the reason of her needing to be a love interest to Tim first, anyway-) i've never understood the massive outcry of people reacting to Bruce kinda being shitty in comics they're not reading. there are some moments that get ridiculously OOC with how cartoonishly evil he is (the whole Gotham War arc and that... complicated mess with Jason) but largely if you want sitcom loving nuclear father Bruce, you have to accept that is a fanon thing, not a canon one. the Batfamily being a nuclear family in *general* is fanon. most of the "Batkids" don't actually see Bruce in a particularly fatherly light and begging for moments where he calls them his kids or they call him dad outside of incredibly specific circumstances is just OOC.

it's getting harder and harder to exist peacefully in this fandom it feels like, if you don't comply to the standard fanon has set. i'm happy people are having fun with their blorbos, even if in ways i dislike, but that "harmless fandom fun" does ripple it's way back to canon, eventually. so i end up pretty tangled with my feelings because are fans at fault for DC making these poor decisions? probably not, but it certainly feels like an unfortunate cause-and-effect situation whether at the end of the day, nobody is happy. and of course, i know some fanon-only fans are striving to be more canon accurate and care about canon dynamics more than others, but for them it's always going to be an uphill battle with the above-mentioned out-of-context panels thrown around and ever-pervasive fanon overtaking anything that's truly seeking to be canon compliant. so really, it sometimes feels like we're all losing.

[some-name-in-progress]

Week 2, and I'm back with 12 more stories. So I tried to keep a pace of 2 stories per day, but I honestly got tripped up on SpoJoy, and it threw me off. On the bright side, if I make up the 2 stories I missed and keep up with 14 stories per week, I should finish in about 4 1/2 weeks, just around the time for 4th Anni (for reference, if anyone did this method staring from Saki’s first focus, it would take them around 10 weeks). Anyways, here are my thoughts.

What Lies Beyond Guiding a Lost Child:

This event honestly hit kinda hard. The dynamic between Mafuyu and her mother feels painfully real. I know that this is the beginning of Mafuyu being put the metaphorical blender, but this event felt very nice at the end.

Desperate Times?! Island Panic!:

I genuinely forgot that there's an event where WxS nearly dies. I honestly don't have much to say about this event, but I didn't really expect it to really drill the fact that WxS might disband. On the other hand, have this meme from the translator of this event (Arvon Oven)

Let's Enjoy Together! SpoJoy Park:

No offense to any SopJoy shooters, but I don't care for this event much. Nice that there's more character interactions. Also, I'm praying Kanade gets therapy eventually, because what do you mean you don't think you should have fun.

The Vivid Old Tale:

The devs really wanted to see how much foreshadowing they can cram in one event, huh? I can't remember how many times I saw something and thought, "Oh my God, that's evil."

No seek No find:

Saki's honestly such a tragic character; it's a shame most people in this fandom are Tuskasa fans (thisisajokethisisajokethisisajoke). It's great to see her backstory, considering it's one of the best ones in the game and hits like a truck. Shout-out to Karin Isobe for her performance in Chapter 6 because she really performed out of her mind.

close game/OFFLINE:

I remember this was the event that came out on JP when I started playing Project Sekai seriously, so it's nice to finally get to it. This event is fine. It has nice character interactions and funny moments, but I don't feel strongly towards it

Chasing The Sparkle Beyond the Blue Sky:

This event is event is nice. It's your annual beach event, but you can clearly see it affects MMJ. Minori's growth feels especially nice. Also, (Spoilers for Sk8 the infinity) a heartfelt confession between two close friends with warm and cold color pallets in front of an Okinawan beach? Close enough, welcome back, Renga.

And Now, I Wear This Ribbon:

I feel betrayed by you, PRSK Tumblr. When I saw this event first come out on both JP and EN, the impression I got is that this event was about Mizuki’s gender, and I would expect that, but then I actually saw the event. This event is NOT about gender. This event is about using the internet and media as a means of escaping the pain of reality and finding people who accept you. Let's have a real moment for a second; why are you, someone who is probably a nuerodivergent minor, here, enjoying stories about other probably neurodivergent minors? Why do we spend so much time here enjoying this silly little game? The answer? Because you have used escapism to find a source of enjoyment and comfort, and so have I. Whether it be drawing, writing, or some other way of interaction, that's probably why you're here (and probably why you're on Tumblr). The way Mizuki and Ena act is very obviously escapism, and it feels extremely real.

Don't lose faith!:

It's nice to see Leo/need pushing themselves towards their dream so strongly. Their frustration feels very natural, and I like it.

Paint What I Love ♪ Rainbow Canvas:

The event is short and sweet, but it gets its point across well. The way Ena, Honami, and Emu interact is honestly kinda fun, and I honestly hope to see more of this group. Also, Hinata cameo after like a year (I think).

Walk on and on

Nice to see Kohane and Toya more involved in the process of music creation since they feel more removed from Vivid Street than An and Akito due to their backstories. Also:

(This joke is really convenient for this game)

At This Festival Bathed in Twilight:

Nice way to see everyone interact with each other, but that's not as important; let's talk about Mafuyu. I was honestly really surprised to see her open up to Emu and Rui, but good for her, I guess??? This event really opened my eyes to Mafuyu, as I was left with one thought, "Oh, this just depressed." I know that seems like a gross reduction of her character, but once you view it like that, it becomes a lot easier to understand Mafuyu. Throughout the entire game, Mafuyu is treated like someone who's egregiously far gone, but she's still a person. I feel like a good number of people fall into this pit of minimizing Mafuyu to just "emotionless girl" that she feels less like a character and more like an object, and I fell into too, but her characterization here makes it clear that she's still a person with wants and desires, she just needs to dig deep to find them.

Additional thoughts:

I've noticed a lot of overlap in the last few events, from stuff like song making to even stuff like training camps that it honestly feels a bit repetitive to have them so close together, but they feel varied enough to not really be a bother.

Anyways, onto the next batch.

[thefreelanceangel]

Shadowbringers Is Finally Ended

With Patch 5.55 and the official end of the Shadowbringers story, setting up now for Endwalker in November, there are now a few months ahead to grind gear, finish content and reflect on the most recent expansion.

And, without any hyperbole, I can say definitively that I have never in my life been as impressed with a game's writing as I have that of Shadowbringers, both the original expansion and a lot of the patch content. I have... thoughts.

I'm a bit of an outlier; I skipped Stormblood (oops) and went straight from completing Heavensward (which greatly impressed me at the time and still does) into Shadowbringers because I wanted to get a max level character already.

Within the first few cutscenes of Shadowbringers, I was absolutely hooked.

First, let me just say that "monstrous angels" is 100% My Thing. I ADORE the reinterpretation of the standard "Renaissance art angelic figures" into something closer to incomprehensible beings taking on twisted, terrifying appearances. The human mind is a finite thing and comprehending an angel would be as difficult as comprehending infinity; these are things so alien to our experience that assuming they'd be easy to grasp and familiar feels disingenuous to me.

So the sin-eaters and the Lightwardens? SLAP.

Also, the intent behind the usage of "Light" in Shadowbringers was deliberate and purposeful. Our Lord and Savior, Yoshi-P, stated this clearly in his Forbes interview.

"The inception of this idea was very simple: in recent fantasy works, the perception that light equates to good and dark equates to evil is very set in stone, we wanted to shake this up a bit.

"Until this point in Final Fantasy XIV, our players have been Warriors of Light: the hero. However, with Shadowbringers, we leave the Source and embark on a journey to the First, and through this I want our players to discover the truth of the world, as well as think about the real nature of light and dark. That is the theme of Shadowbringers.

"In any case, a light too strong could potentially become evil. Darkness and night are also necessary for the world to maintain its balance; that's the kind of theme we will be shedding light on."

And the themes in Shadowbringers had such an amazing resonance that they were both painfully clear and masterfully executed. Not only was the theme of "balance" clearly executed in the "returning Darkness to a world flooded by Light" goal, but the desire for players to "think about the real nature of light and dark" showed in a multitude of ways.

The Warriors of Light (who we met as the Warriors of Darkness in Heavensward) are, in their home world, reviled. They directly caused the Flood which nearly destroyed their home and although they were able to save it with personal sacrifice, the populace at large is unaware of that sacrifice. The motives behind what the Warriors did is essentially lost to history; all that remains is the perception of their actions and the results thereof.

Motives, however, which you (player and WoL) are privy to.

"At long last, you see. To save our world, we gave our lives. We were just adventurers trying to make our way. An odd job here, a favor there—we never aspired to be Warriors of Light. But word of our deeds spread, and soon people were calling us heroes. They placed their hopes and dreams on our shoulders and bid us fight for all that was good and right. We fought and we fought and we fought...until there was no one left to fight. We won...and now our world is being erased from existence. We did everything right, everything that was asked of us, and still—still it came to this! You of all people should understand! We cannot—we will not falter. We brought our world to the brink of destruction, and now we must save it."

You had that fight with the Warriors of Darkness. You heard Ardbert explain exactly what happened, how they came to the point where they faced off against you, and you saw what happened when they were given the choice to hold back the Flood. And you were there when the one favor Ardbert asked was for the Warriors of Darkness to be taken home.

You see how the First remembers them and it's stark contrast to the heroes you met who were fighting desperately to save people who now spit on their names. History quite clearly has two sides and which you believe is dependent entirely on what information you have.

This becomes even more of a clear theme when you meet Emet-Selch and learn more about the Calamity which led to the entire Zodiark/Hydaelyn duality. Here, your previous experiences with Ascians has painted them solely as "villains." They are established enemies, manipulating events and people in order to attain goals which, to you, are nothing but Calamities.

And yet, as you learn more about the original Source and the Amaurotines that once lived on it, these goals are painted in an entirely new light. Instead of merely seeking to wipe out "the world" for no apparent reason or, at best guess, greater power for their deity Zodiark, the Ascians were striving to repair the damage done by the original Sundering. They, in a manner of speaking, were doing what the Warriors of Darkness were. What you, the Warrior of Light, have been doing. They were trying to restore what was lost.

Which leads into another of Shadowbringers' major themes: grief and loss.

The earliest touches of this are in Alisaie's questlines where you learn about what happens to people tainted by the Light. Families are destroyed, people are transmuted into sin-eaters and those who avoid that fate must stand by and watch as their loved ones fall to something far worse than death. "A Purchase of Fruit" shows you exactly what the end result is while also highlighting something very specific: with no hope of removing the Light's taint, knowing that all that awaits the tainted is a painful transmutation and existence as a sin-eater, those untainted make the best they can of those last days and end the tainted individual's pain before it begins.

Grief, yes. Loss? Absolutely. And yet, this is a loving, compassionate thing that those in Amh Araeng are doing. They face their own grief and loss. Rather than refusing to accept the actuality of their circumstances or refuse to weigh themselves down with taking a decisive action, they make the choice to face their grief and loss directly, even willingly taking on the guilt of their actions rather than leaving the tainted to suffer.

Magnus in Twine lost his wife and son, which immobilizes him. He can't find solance in anything save alcohol and brooding over their graves. It takes outside interference to pull him directly from his grief, to help him see past the loss of his family and look towards the future where life might once again be worth living. His struggle with grief is painfully familiar and so very, very close to many real life struggles that it's extremely poignant.

This struggle with grief is the fight the Ascians are, without question, losing. Let's set aside the "tempering" argument when it comes to Emet-Selch and Elidibus for the moment, largely because it's actually quite true that grief can spur people into committing horrific acts either as a desperate attempt to assuage their own pain (revenge) or make 'things right' in some way (vengeance).

Emet-Selch does not, in fact, properly grieve for Amaurot and the Ancients he knew. He clings to them, as Hythlodaeus tells us, weighed down by an aching sense of loss.

"And though he may carry himself with a certain glib ease, Emet-Selch is not a man to bear his burdens lightly. In fact, I imagine they have only grown heavier with every passing century. ...T'is truly a terrible weight he has chosen to carry."

Quite significantly is the word "chosen" in that. Grief is a process that involves, eventually, letting go of the pain and living with the memories of what was loved and what no longer is. Emet-Selch chooses not to do that. He does not grieve for Amaurot and his lost loved ones; he refuses, no matter how often he mentions his loss, to admit that what is gone is gone.

Elidibus, rather similarly, refuses to accept that the duty he took on when called upon to become Zodiark's heart is finally at an end. That the world he and Emet-Selch originated from is gone. Although he admits that he can barely remember why he's set on this path, he refuses to turn away from him.

One won't forget, one can barely remember--neither will grieve and let go.

Even the Ascians' characteristic arrogance and disdain for what they consider "lesser beings" is easy to read as their long-lasting struggle with grief. Considering the Sundering, all the beings that the Ascians are so disdainful of are, in fact, echoes of that which they once knew. If they acknowledged that, accepted those beings as what they are and perhaps even admitted they had worth... well... Rather like realizing abruptly that you've spent a whole day without thinking of someone recently departed, it feels like a betrayal.

To find value in the worlds as they currently are, to turn away from the duty they were asked to uphold, to choose to lay down the memories of the past are all, in essence, choices the Ascians will not make because to do so would be to let go of what's lost, to move into the acceptance of grief and that can feel like betraying those whose memories are slowly fading.

Emet-Selch's end--"Remember us."--is directly tied to his refusal to forget. To let himself have even one day without hoping for an eventuality that's highly unlikely regardless of effort, without remembering the Sundering and the Final Days. He remembered, forcefully and tenaciously, and wishes that legacy to live beyond him.

While Elidibus, in remembering, unable to deny failure any longer, finally expresses grief and loss. "My people. My brothers. ...My friends. Stay strong. Keep the faith. At duty's end, we will meet again. We will. We will. The rains have ceased, and we have been graced with another beautiful day. But you are not here to see it."

And coming from villains, quite specifically from villains that have been largely indistinct "puppet master" figures throughout the previous expansions, these story arcs were a punch to the gut. (Yes, I had to pause writing this to cry helplessly over Elidibus again because my gods, that last line just...) Villains are at their best in fiction when they're relatable. When it's so very easy to see that thin line between villain and hero.

Faced with the loss of everything you'd ever loved, with the faintest possibility of getting it back, what would you do? What wouldn't you do? Yes, the Ascians did terrible things and that's undeniable. Stopping them was necessary to save hundreds of thousands of lives. And doing so, being victorious, didn't feel like a victory and that is such a rare, rare thing in media. The Warrior of Light does the right thing, but in doing so, must face the fact that those they've been fighting have hopes and dreams and feelings and pain as real and as motivating as theirs.

And Shadowbringers does such an impressive job of turning those standard tropes around. Heroes are a dime a dozen because if you just awaken them, as Elidibus did with the starshower, well, there can be dozens of Warriors running around. Villains have heart-wrenching motivations and relatable reasons for their goals. History is multi-faceted and no one person knows what the "truth" truly is. Grief can spur people to helping others (i.e. the tank Role Quest ending) or it can fester and go unhealed and create nothing but more destruction.

There is so much that Shadowbringers did beautifully, I don't have the time to touch on all of it. The lack of "breaking the flawed system fixes everything" trope following Eulmore's liberation from Vauthry and the struggles that Eulmore faces in trying to build a functional, working social order for themselves. Embracing the value of childish dreams and tending to the smallest, most overlooked victims of trauma with the Pixie Tribal Quests. Dealing with a commander whose soldiers died and seeing Lyna's survivor's guilt. Seeing how having a single, unified goal can inspire and rally people into putting differences aside and helping each other.

Shadowbringers has finally ended with Patch 5.55. The story on the First ended with Patch 5.3. And all I can say is that this is a game that I will never forget.

[obserfdom]

False God, Kaylor's New Anthem

False God - the sexiest part of the album, Lover, (similar to the flirtatious Dress in Reputation) to me personally, has a intriguing meaning. I have searched the web to see what analyses so far regarding the lyrics. Nothing much, mostly saying that it is about Joe Alwyn. Okay, let's debunk this one. 'Cause I also know that Kaylors have an interpretation from the gay's angle.

I think, I can speak on both perspectives, since I've been in both. I once married, however my biggest love life relationship was with woman. So, I am really curious to know, in what angle did Taylor actually write this song.

***

We were crazy to think. Crazy to think that "this" could work -> okay, since almost everyone out there agree that FG about love/relationship, so "this" referring to Taylor relationship (lover).

Now, don't you think it kinda strange that Taylor having a doubt about her relationship with Joe? I mean, she was 27th when she first met Joe & with enough experiences in relationship already, not to mention Joe is also coming from almost the same background, apart from different country and Joe gained celebrity status from the cinematic industry, but still I mean, what is so crazy about starting a "heteronormative" relationship like that?

Unless... she was talking about a "different kind" of relationship - something, which in general, still being perceived as 'abnormal'...

Hmmm, interesting.

But wait, there's another way to translate it, that somehow during that moment she was having an existential crisis. She questioned a lot of thing: the meaning of being celebrity i.e. she worked so hard to pursue her dream whilst at the same time she was devastated by the facts that people whom she thought once friends, stabbed her from the back - or that strangers would start to belittle & mocking her for everything - she had trust issue, she started losing confidence, she hold grudge, she was in emotional turbulance (these loosely translation based on her interviews).

Hence: she thought to drag someone to her "crazy" world would be tenacious.

Remember how I said I'd die for you? --> seems like she was really madly in love here

We were stupid to jump --> yet they've decided to taste the water anyhow

In the ocean separating us. Remember how I'd fly to you?

--> ok, again, this does fit Joe. Cause taking it in literal sense, then it probably about her had to fly back n forth US-UK.

However, Karlie still fits the role as well, I think, since they both doing a busy life, mostly continental apart.

Whoever it was for, metaphorically speaking it is about how she was making a sacrifice for the relationship to work.

And I can't talk to you when you're like this

--> later we would comprehend that Taylor was talking about a moment when her and lover had some feud. When she restrospected how during the couple-fight, her beau would:

Staring out the window

(I imagine her beau stood still, in silence, gazed through the window) avoiding to look her in the face, thus she thought:

like I'm not your favorite town

!!! What is her beau fave town?

I'm New York City

(yeah, baby!) And whose fav city is New York? Karlie Kloss!

"Well, Joe can also regard NYC as his fave city..." True - but, Taylor wouldn't be writing something that has no common reference to it. I've googled Joe's city preference and came out with null results. While as for Karlie Kloss, almost everywhere - you can find her boasting around about how much she loves NYC. As a matter of fact - she was the one who convinced Taylor to move to NYC in 2014 (and Taylor has been in love to the city, since).

Furthermore the next lyrics kinda congruent to the above speculation:

I still do it for you, babe

--> "I moved to NYC still staying here to date because of you." See, it still a close referrence to Karlie.

Can you come out with different translation that lead to Joe, instead? If you do, please let me know in the comment.

They all warned us about times like this. They say the road gets hard and you get lost

--> this one is really interesting. We all know Joe and Taylor still together and that Taylor somehow bragging about how happy in relationship she is now. But here as if like her saying that 'something happened to the couple' in FG story. Something big and terrible - something that might cause them to split/break apart.

And she kinda blame, the reason why it happened cause:

When you're led by blind faith. Blind faith

--> what is the meaning of "blind faith" in term of falling in love? Yes, when you are so in love that you are willing to do anything to retain or to be in it. You disregard everything, cause you are so drunk inside the pool of love, lust, altogether. You become 'blind'.

Ok, let's speak in het point a view, first - do you think, you see a magical spark when seeing Joe with Taylor out and about? Hard to tell? Okay, fair enough.

But here, an excerpt from Rolling Stone interview:

Her paused after accentuated the word "if"... to me is her showing hesitation even doubt to the idea of having a family.

Kinda weird coming from her current public image in Lover Era where she continue asserting how happy she is and how seems like, she has found the love of her life.

Further in FG she asserted that she is madly in love with someone whom she willing to die for - to fly across ocean for - so much intoxicated by love as if like having a blind faith!

Unless... the love of her life which she depicted in FG is...

in which because of that, for her to think of the ideas of: 'to be together, be a family'; would be a crazy notion and hard to imagine.

***

Yet, she also made it clear in FG, despite the odd, she was not ready to release the idea of 'stick together for good', because she thought there is still possibility that:

(But) we might just get away with it

***

The following lyrics to me, kinda raw and blatant:

Religion's in your lips. Even if it's a false god. We'd still worship.

(We might just get away with it)

The altar is my hips.

Lips & hips -> you imagine anything? (Lol).

Why False God? Clearly, she still talking about love:

Even if it's a false god. We'd still worship this love.

So in another word, Taylor using False God as a metaphor for passionate love she was experiencing with someone.

But why False God?

My take using gay perspective: is because we know how most religions condemn homosexuality. So with probably her involved in the same sex relationship, which would be considered sin or false by many, this probably her way of saying: "I don't care. I have all the rights to love whomever I want to love, regardless what society in heterenormative world would think!"

Next:

I know heaven's a thing. I go there when you touch me, honey. Hell is when I fight with you. But we can patch it up good. Make confessions and we're begging for forgiveness. Got the wine for you.

In general sense, the narrative here is about normal things happen in relationship. It's about having differences inside romance - a fight, a quarrel- then "kiss and make up".

But again, it is interesting how she chose the religious term like 'hell' and 'heaven' to equate her romantic endeavours.

This can't stop me from thinking that she actually is talking about sacred-secret love which against religious belief.

(Again, her way in saying: "I don't care your heaven or hell! I have my own, in this love-life story of mine!").

I would also like to re-iterate: "Got the wine for you" - seemingly her 'make up' sentence for her beau. But it is interesting to think about her chosen word "wine" there. It could mean literally that they both do love wine or...

"intimate love" - ok very much correlated. Yet further from the same source (wiki), wine (alcohol in general) often perceived as "evil".

So in which way, Taylor denoted "wine"? If its in devilish way, yes, then it is another mockery from her to religious dogma as if like saying: "I don't mind being perceived as evil. Me and lover will continue doing what we are doing!"

And you can't talk to me when I'm like this. Daring you to leave me just so I can try and scare you.

Hehe, so woman, don't you think? ;)

You're the West Village. You still do it for me, babe.

A shout out to Kaylors on this. Cause west village in literal meaning is a place where Karlie once lived.

Is there any other meaning for West Village? Yes, a big maybe. But unfortunately, I couldn't find any. Perhaps, you can dig on that and tell me later?

Finally, when come back to:

They all warned us about times like this. They say the road gets hard and you get lost

--> if we persevere with Karlie's scenario - then one could imagine this depiction is perfectly suitable to the Kaylors conspiracy theory.

How we speculated that their relationship in trouble - they chose to beard for their career sake - beside continue "behind the scene" with their LOVE that worthy eternal worshipping.

Sounds too delusional?

Perhaps. But since it is still a blank space, one owns a prerogative to write things accordingly. And False God is a love letter from Taylor Swift to Karlie Kloss? I'd say ameen to that!

xxx

Update: Joe Alwyn Fave City (thank you @dodsdmr for this info)