#it wasn't anything like. genuinely problematic or anything like that. it was just odd

[rappihahh]

Overthinking rn

[furiousgoldfish]

Hi, general TW for physical abuse, mental/emotional abuse, sexual abuse, mental health topics (just to be safe). Apologies for the length.

(i sent this twice in case the first one didn't go through, I know sometimes long asks disappear in the system. If you got two please ignore this one, thank you for understanding)

This is.. going to be odd but I'm the person that sent the ask about learning how to be more like a typical human after being semi-feral? you asked a few questions and I can answer them, and maybe get some advice too on it as well. Sorry if this is disjointed, I'm in a bad head space right now but I haven't seen your inbox open in a while so I wanted to answer you while I could.

You asked me about how I survived. And honestly it was mostly because I didn't have an alternative. For physical abuse, I developed a high pain tolerance and don't much have the ability to cry or react to pain. I genuinely don't understand why people describe certain things as being painful, I can handle punches, cuts, etc without reacting.

For starvation my body has stopped reacting to hunger. I haven't felt hunger in many many years, and even then it was a rare occurrence. While it's most likely that I have stunted physical growth because of malnutrition, I can go days without eating without feeling any negative side effects. This is similar with water as well. I can go over a day or two without water and still be okay, actually most of my childhood I drank some water in the morning and then didn't drink anything until 5pm.

As for everything else, I wasn't really allowed to express emotions growing up after my birth parents. While my birth mother would sometimes beat me just to see me cry because she thought it was funny, in the foster home I spent the most time in any reaction from me that wasn't positive or praise was considered problematic. (more about the foster home later)



I'll also add that one of the things that kept me alive, ironically, was the thought of how easy it was to die. The first time I tried killing myself was when I was 5, where I had trained the dog I was living with to lay on a pillow wherever it was put. I'd then lay down and get the dog to lay on that, effectively suffocating me. The dog left after attacking a different kid (who tried killing it) and I was removed after.

My entire childhood I planned my own suicide in all sorts of ways. I've tried stealing and taking pills, I used to keep cups of bleach by my bedside to trick myself into drinking it, I tried laying on streets so cars would crush me, all the way to more elaborate plans I won't share. I don't remember when I started self harming, however I always was sneaky about it because I was always under what was called "arm check" watch. So it stuck mostly to things I could get away with.

I, though I don't know why, have an unnaturally high tolerance to medication, drugs, anaesthetics, and alcohol. I need 3 to 4 times the regular dose of medication for it to impact me, I've never been put under anaesthetics because they've never been legally able to give me a high enough dose to knock me out, and though I've been pressured to drink by adults when I was younger I've never gotten drunk, not even when I was a teen and drank a whole 6 pack.

This has stopped me from overdosing many times, because I've reached the point where I've taken enough medication to actually overdose but didn't. Perhaps this is due to overactive survival instincts, perhaps it's a bizarre quirk. Perhaps my birth parents used to drug me and I gained an early life tolerance. But in summary, only the idea that if I were to die it would be under my own terms was what kept me alive. That and spite, and a fear of abandoning any current foster siblings or pets that I protected from foster siblings that tried killing/maiming them.



To answer you about alters, I'm not entirely sure if I have fully formed alters or not? While my dissociation isn't as bad as it was when I was younger (I'd zone out to the point where I was completely gone for hours. No matter what anyone did I wouldn't react at all) and I eventually learned how to at least move and somewhat speak when it happens.

I do have like a co-host? There's two of me inside my head, and majority of my communication in life has been us talking to each other. However I think it's important to mention that when I was 6 there was a shift? I'm unsure how to word it but this is the closest way I can put it: when I was 6 the original person of the body died and left us two behind.

We had completely different interests, reactions to things, thoughts and dreams and everything. It's to the point that I was moved to another foster home because I was no longer the kid the previous foster parents wanted. And it felt like we had to re-learn how everything worked all over again, because I only knew how to survive.

Every few years that "rebirth" cycle happens again, and the two co-hosts seem to shut off for a bit and then turn back on, but when they turn back on we loose sense of "us" and have to relearn a bunch of things. And not just small things, but big things like school concepts, social rules, what is and isn't acceptable to speak about, how to properly move our body, all of that. Everything feels brighter and more real for a week or two after before it goes back to being dull.

But after that we're still like a new duo living in the head and living in this body. We may have different interests and do differently in school, and I have no clue why it happens. If it is all alters, maybe we're stuck in a perpetual loop of being born, barely surviving, and dying over and over again. It's the only way I can keep track of periods of my life, on which 3 or 4 year period certain iterations of us control the body.

I guess this sort of internal cycle also adds to me not feeling like a real person, because I often loose all the person-ness I've gained and have to read-build my illusion of humanness all over again. What comes naturally to me isn't what a human should be like, and it's unsafe for me to ever be me, at the very least until I can someday find a place safe enough to live.



My main reason for learning how to speak, even though it physically hurts me to do so for any length of time, was so I could learn how to beg people not to kill me. As soon as I sensed adult disappointment I would crouch on the ground and cover my head and beg the adult not to kill me, which got me moved from another foster home after the school called the foster parents too many times asking why I did that.

Eventually I learned that doing that would make people more likely to kill me, so my general perspective of the world my entire life has been "everyone in the world belongs on a ranking system of how much power they have over another person. Teachers and parents have the most, while kids older than you will always have more power. I have less ranking than everyone else around me, so any hurt done to me will always be acceptable. If someone kills me it's well within their ranking to do so." I still struggle to not have this outlook, as I'm used to being treated as more of a pet or novelty than a person.

I don't know if that answers your questions, but that's the best I can do. If there's any more questions you have I can try answering them whenever I find your inbox open again.



Here's the more about foster care, and what I have some questions about. I've mentioned this to someone once, and they said it sounded similar to human trafficking? though I consider it normal.

In the one foster home I stayed at, the one I stayed at the longest, was one where every child that went there had a "ranking". For some extra context: every child there was a legal orphan, all through having birth parents so bad they couldn't stay with them.

The ranking system was based on how "adoptable" the child was. For instance, if you did well in school, didn't have attention put on you, stayed quiet and followed chores and "requests" at the foster home, and basically did what you were told you'd keep a good ranking. This also included not reacting to any trauma you have, not mentioning previous parents (foster or birth), and basically being a child that raised themself. HOWEVER it didn't matter what happened at home, just keeping up appearances and not bothering the foster parents.

While at that foster home over the years I had over 8 foster siblings, though only 5 of them stayed for longer than a few months. When I was 6 the boy already living there tried, and likely succeeded at some point, raping me. The only reason why he was ever caught (he was left home alone with me to babysit, despite him being no where near capable of doing so.) was because a new girl (around 8) had moved in and caught him in the act. She had just come from a place where she'd witnessed rape and freaked out enough that they eventually moved the boy.

Even though she saved me then and at times acted like an older sister, she also was... not happy with her life. She tried killing me multiple times, usually through drowning (both when we were left alone and her telling babysitters that I could swim and putting me in situations where I'd nearly drown). She also tried attack me with a knife a few times, however all the cabinets and drawers in the house were locked so it was rare for her to get anything too sharp.

She also had been planning to murder our foster parents and blame me for it, however someone reported her for trying to get a teacher to have sex with her when she was 13 and got sent away. There was another boy that lived there around my age a few years later that also tried killing me multiple times, usually through strangulation, pushing me onto the road, trying to hang me a few times, attacking me with a knife, and in other ways. He was rather sneaky and had been 2 weeks away from being officially adopted by the foster parents before he tried threatening someone on the school bus.

He had threatened people before and had never actually attacked someone at school, but the bus driver had gotten mad enough that he was suspended. Our foster parents only called him "devil child" and terminated the adoption process and sent him away, despite him doing that and worse to me for years at home.

I had a few other foster siblings similar to that, two other ones that showed sexual interest in me. One simply harassed me while the other raped me nightly for years before eventually being sent away because 3 foster kids at once was "too financially difficult" (even though the foster parents were paid to care for all of us, covering school supplies, clothes, and more. The only clothes I got were the clothes of older foster siblings, sometimes even stuff from previous foster kids I'd never met that was kept in garbage bags in the attic).

There's a lot more I could add, like how in that foster home I was often put to work in their construction business, and how the foster mother was grooming me to have a "special" relationship with her, and more, but first I want to talk about the foster home.



So the ranking system was used not only to basically tell us foster kids whether we'd be able to still stay there/not get abandoned again. It was also used to consider how "considerate" our removal would be. If you had a poor ranking you'd get insulted and lose certain privileges, and if it got bad enough the foster parents would refer to the kid as "devil child" (regardless of age).

A "considerate" removal was where a foster kid would be told they'd be removed a few weeks or months in advance, a bad removal was being kicked out suddenly with all the things you were allowed to keep in garbage bags.

Part of the "considerate" removal (and what the person said sounded like "human trafficking") was the videos we had to make. We would make videos about us doing homework, our likes, us doing chores, stuff like that. A sort of general introduction to the kid, and why anyone watching would want to foster/adopt that kid. These videos would show off all the best qualities of a kid, be burned onto a special CD with the kid's legal name on it, and then played to groups of potential foster/adoptive parents.

The foster parents and the potentials would meet in a room and watch the disk, and whoever was interested would stay behind and ask the foster parents more questions. Whoever was the kid that was staying at the foster home the longest would go and act as a sort of "fact checker" of sorts, because "children are worse at lying".

That, after a few years, ended up being me. I've been in many meetings with groups of adults I don't know and asked about how good my foster siblings were, and sometimes even asked which potential foster parents I liked the most, which would get taken into consideration on which potential foster/adoptive parents my foster sibling(s) would go to.



I'll admit to being selfish and not wanting them to leave, even if they had hurt me. It hurt more having to lie about where I was, but it hurt more seeing adults I mildly recognized come to the door and take my foster siblings away. I always tried to get my foster siblings controlled in some way to avoid them having to be removed, which often made them more mad at me and more likely to lash out, but we'd all been abandoned and I didn't want them to be abandoned again. But perhaps they were luckier, because they got to move out.

Those foster parents of that foster home has a copy of every CD made for all the foster kids, though there's a few that didn't get time to make CDs before they were kicked out. It was all through our local child protective services, but I wasn't allowed any internet presence and few photos of me which means there is a possibility that I was kidnapped (or "misplaced") in the system.

Those foster parents were also... not great. It turns out that the foster mother had had her own biological children removed from her decades ago, and they couldn't have biological children of their own. They wanted a child to replace the one they couldn't have, and were cycling through children until they found one easy enough to control (i remind you children all with birth parents abusive enough that we were all declared legal orphans).

I ended up being controllable enough, though that was also because my social worker abandoned me and I had no outside contacts and a panic-attack inducing fear of adults. Eventually they adopted me and changed my name to one of the foster mother's birth child's names. They forbade me from learning anything about my past OTHER than whatever terrible things my birth parents did.

Unless I was physically working for the foster father (construction business he mostly ignored me. By the time I was 7 I was tiling bathroom floors, and by the time I was 9 I had helped (without ladders or any safety measures) put roofing on roofs). He ignores my physical ailments and always changes the topic whenever I mention anything that isn't "positive" or school, so we lack much of an emotional bond. However he also has never hurt me physically, touched me in any way, or purposefully made me cry. He does ignore everything the foster mother did.



The foster mother had wanted a "special" relationship, and I don't know what else to describe it. Once I knew enough language to speak and make up stories she was telling me about her own trauma and the trauma of her self-help-group/clients. (The foster parents didn't want a disabled kid so I was forced to do home schooling over the summers to "make up" for "my defective brain". They weren't trained and it got ugly many many times because of my brain damage and general inhumanness. Due to the treatment of my birth parents I have brain damage that no one ever checked up on.)

I was raised on stories of rape, abuse, murder, and trauma. The only TV I was ever allowed to watch was construction-work related stuff (so I could better help in the business) or shows with murder. The birth mother would pit the other foster kids against me because I got the "special privilege" of being allowed into the foster mother's office (the only time we ever would see her, other than watching tv._

This "special privilege" included her removing her shirts so I could give her back massages (starting when I was 7), and her telling me about her clients/friends. It also included her sharing her delusions in a religious sort of way, and training me to "be more human".

No matter what i did I could never fully please her, because no matter what I do I will never be a real human. I was never allowed therapy and was the closest thing to therapy I've had was those "Special meetings" with the foster mother. And there the core lessons for me was the following:

No matter what I do, I will ALWAYS be worth less than everyone because I am fundamentally inhuman.

Everyone else is always telling the truth compared to me, because I'm fundamentally incapable of experiencing reality.

Everyone plans out their life before they live it. That means that I planned out every single thing that ever happened in my life. That means I wanted every bad thing that happened, and there was no one to blame but me.

That it's not actually that hard to hide a body, and if I try talking to outsiders I'll learn that first hand (this was partially why the foster mother had me watch so many murder and murder mystery shows. It was a reminder of how she could point out all the mistakes the murderers made, AKA how easy it would be for her to kill me and get away with it).

My life is a mistake, something that should have never happened, and if I talked to other people I'd only spread my curse them to be like me.

Never talk about what happens at home. Or your life.



When I was 17 the foster parents moved me to another place in the country where the nearest towns were over an hours drive away and the nearest town with police was 2+hours away. And where the age of adulthood was older than 18, all so I couldn't legally leave them (they have made far far too many stalking, kidnapping, maiming and more threats because they "love me too much to let me go"). And in general keep me as isolated as they could, a thing they've done since I was placed in their care.

There's so much more I could talk about, but this is already far far too long, so I have a few question I hope you could answer?

First, I'd appreciate any reaction or thoughts you could share, I find it helps give me an outside perspective from someone who doesn't think all this to be normal (and therefore more comfortable than the alternative).

Second, would the CDs and method of foster children getting new foster/adoptive parents be considered similar to human trafficking? I really don't think it is, but that comment the person made has stuck with me, and I wanted to get someone else's opinion (it's... not something I can just go and ask someone)/

Third, is it normal for parents (foster, adoptive or otherwise) to want you to raise yourself? I basically was feeding myself (making meals, packing lunches, etc) since I was 7 and helped my foster siblings do so too. I helped do everyone's laundry since I was 6 (my foster siblings and I were so small that just for one basket all three of us would have to grab on and drag it upstairs lol) and have continued to do mine and the foster parents's laundry since. I never got homework help, never did outside activities that would require the foster parents taking me places, I spent all my time in a forest (sometimes camping in it for weekends until I was old enough to be taken seriously if I complained about living conditions (around 13?). etc

Fourth, is it weird that I was required to do so much construction work? I've helped with the demolition and construction of many houses since I was 7-ish, ranging from taking down walls to plumbing to electrical wiring, creating walls, tiling, carpeting, roofing, making decks, etc etc etc. For a few years my bedroom was also used as a tool storage area, with tons of saws, knives, and tools all over the place. The foster mother was well aware of my suicidal tendencies and she would tell me to do it, put my in situations where I could do it, shame me for being "like that", and only cared if it ruined the foster parents' combined reputation.

Fifth, is it wrong for me to be upset at the idea that the only reason why I've ever been considered a wanted child (or wanted in general) is because how my trauma manifested as internal reactions rather than acting out (aka making me more controllable)? I should be happy that I had so many chances at having a family, even if I never stopped feeling like an orphan, right? (sorry, I've been thinking about this a lot for a while. I can't help but feel mad at the friend I have and school peers in the past because they never had to struggle at just the chance for family. They take it for granted. It's unfair.)



Last, does this fall into continued emotional and/or psychological abuse? Compared to my birth parents and other foster parents they seemed amazing to me, however from reading about other people's families I realize that my foster/adoptive parents sound equal or even worse (NOT to make it a competition, I mean "worse" in the sense that I didn't know those things were considered abusive, NOT that other people "have it easy". pain is pain, and no one likes being hurt.)

For instance, for a few months the foster mother was in the hospital and the foster father went to work and then went to the hospital, only coming home to sleep and make sure there was food for us to eat. I thought they were both at the hospital. We had no baby sitters, even though the oldest kid was 8 and the youngest was 5. Or the time that the foster mother threatened to break down my bedroom door and beat me because I was sick and didn't want to go out somewhere that gave me migraines. Or the many times the foster mother would keep insulting and berating me until I cried, but if I ever said anything I was "defending the fact that all I want to do in life is to suffer". Or how much the have laughed at me for trying to explain to them that I need psychological or physical help (the hardest I've ever seen them laugh is when I told them I was suicidal as a kid. They made jokes about me killing myself and how for months after). Or not being allowed water, or having food withheld, or how the foster mother's delusions have grown to the point that for years I've been denied not just the idea that I'm human, but the idea that I'm a living individual.

According to her I'm an extension of herself without autonomy or personhood, no one but her exists, everyone in the world is an illusion, and far far more. Constantly having to not just listen to multiple hour long rants and having to repeat/speak about how right she because she'd remove my access to water or food or online school (this was during the pandemic, which for me was 3 years straight of being in a new place knowing no one and left with 100% of my interaction being her or the foster father. Those years of psychological mind tricks (I have no clue how to explain it, brainwashing is the closest thing but I don't want to say that in case I'm wrong) definitely not done me good.



(That's also ignoring what happened at other foster homes I've lived at. There was a foster father that was... too "loving" towards young children, another who would lock me in a closet if I was in his eyesight too long, and a foster mother that had gotten frustrated at me for only meowing and hissing as I was had been beaten so many times I was afraid to try learning how to speak so she threw me outside to live with the dog. She'd clean me up and say I was telling stories if I said anything about it through my limited language skills, basically just wanted the money).

Apologies for how long this is, I completely understand if it takes you a long time to answer, or if you choose not to answer at all. Thank you for what you do for everyone, and thank you for taking time to answer everyone's stuff. I hope you have a good day and a good life.

Thank you for answering all of the questions and explaining to me how you survived. I appreciate all of the time you spent explaining it, and everything you said makes sense to me. This is going to be a long response as well, so I'll put it under 'read more'.

The way you survived is something I wouldn't even think possible, your entire body has adapted to the point where all of your senses have turned off, almost permanently, in order for life to still be possible. It is scary to know that this can even happen, and I hope dearly that this doesn't mess up your health (and I want to say, quality of life, but, uh.) I am sorry the lack of nutrition stumped your physical growth.

While your endurance over pain, hunger, and resistance to medicine might seem impressive, it is a sign of how harsh and dangerous your environment was, and how far you had to adapt in order to survive. It's understandable that it's very hard for you to relate to other people, when you're adapted for much different circumstances of life.

It's also incredible you managed to survive at all, and it makes sense you were always look for a way out, it would not have been possible to survive what you did, without hoping that you could end it. It is devastating what you felt compelled to do, but I'm going to try and stay collected to answer this, because I don't feel like you're looking for a display of emotions.

What you describe as co-hosts in your head, that definitely sounds like alters, but I've never heard of a case like yours, where they're shutting off, dying, and then regenerating and re-learning everything, in order to survive. Again, it makes sense with your living circumstances, that it has to be like that, anyone would burn out and shut off in any way possible, and you have to go thru that cylce in order to keep being alive. Still, I'm very sorry that you have to suffer thru this, and struggle to keep any personality you develop. It sounds like your personality forming was shattered into pieces, and it might take a long time to start recovering it, if it's even possible (I'm not smart about this, I really can't say.)

It would make sense that it stops you from feeling like a person though. I doubt there's a lot of people you can relate to, or even talk about this.

I said I would stay collected writing this, but when I read that you learned to speak only to beg people not to kill you, that felt like a physical blow. I had to close my laptop and take a few minutes. That proves unimaginable cruelty and life danger from humans that you had to endure, and your instincts had to over-write everything, even pain, in order to give you a slight chance of survival, and I know that this type of danger erases everything, your personality and sense of self, until there's nothing but pure survival instinct and it takes over.

People who called the foster parents asking why you did that, likely also understood what kind of cruelty trauma this implied.

The ranking system you described, it makes sense. It's not supposed to be like this. In a humane world, we do not have a ranking system, we are, in theory, supposed to all be equal, and none of us is supposed to do harm to another, thats the theory that society's foundations are set on. There are laws protecting it, or at least in theory, there are laws protecting people from the greatest harm. However, what you experienced from society was not like that. A lot of society is not like that. There are people who are intent on building a hierarchy everywhere, and they do feel entitled to do harm to anyone they set on a lower level. It happens in systems of corporations, education, economy, government, family, any system where there are people with authority over other people. And you have experienced the absolute worst of the worst of it. So you had to pick up their rules, the rules of those who need this hierarchy in order to get away with hurting others, who feel entitled to it and constantly need victims. Me and most other people are disgusted by it, and a lot of people want to believe that people in authority would not abuse the authority to cause harm, but by vast majority, they do.

The reason why this hierarchy is so prevalent among children, is that children are always the most vulnerable demographic, being small, defenseless, and in complete power and dependency of others. So they are the ones who get hurt first from the hierarchy system, who are most likely to fall victims – and not only that, but children will mimic whatever behaviour is presented to them, so they will mimic the hierarchy as well, and continue building it among themselves. This also means that the bigger, more aggressive and opportunistic children, will abuse smaller, more scared, more vulnerable, and more sensitive non-violent children. It is not how things are supposed to work, all children are supposed to be protected and safe from abuse. But you have lived the reality of it, and you know how the system works. Anyone who wants to do harm, will pick someone who can't fight back, and who will not be believed, and they can do to this individual whatever they want to, leaving this person with trauma to recover for ages. This isn't right, it's not humane, normal, or compatible with human life, it's an evil hierarchy that not all humans subscribe to. But it is, in the systems that people with power abuse, extremely common. And utterly devastating to live thru, as someone with no power over anyone else.

And I know that the rule 'anyone who kills you is well within their ranking to do so' feels incredibly true (I've felt this in my family as well), but it is not. Nobody's ranking gives them an authority to end your life, or to take it from you. Nothing can grant people the right to do this. What they're doing is getting away with it, when they shouldn't, and they have no right. This is people acting out of their right, out of what is normal, allowed, or humane. I know it doesn't sound real when so, so many people have done this to you, have tried to kill you, and acted like it was the most normal thing imaginable. But all of this was wrong. I'm sorry if what I'm writing right now is painful, I'm not sure how much I can say without making it worse – if something I said feels bad, feel free to disregard it completely.

*

I think the ranking you describe in your foster care is built in an inhumane way. Rewarding children for being extremely convenient, hiding trauma, hiding emotions, obeying and doing work, and punishing them for any actual normal child behaviour, like being openly traumatized, in pain, defiant, acting out, that's not done in child's benefit. Children deserve better than to be suppressed and play pretense in hopes that someone will some day find them worthy of love. It also invites foster parents who only care about 'keeping appearances' and nothing else to benefit from this system. I want to believe there are foster parents who'd want to help a child recover and live a happy life, and not just to have a convenient person who obeys them in the house.

I am so sorry about the amount of sexual violence, murder attempts, and abuse you had suffered in your foster home. I can see you're writing about it as if it's nothing, so I can assume this was very normal and common for you, and not something devastating and life-damaging (you've been thru worse at that point, so it's no surprise that this doesn't come to you as a huge deal). I'm glad you noticed that it is incredibly hypocritical of the foster parents to send that boy away for threatening someone at the bus, when he'd been doing way worse to you for ages – it had only mattered to the parents when someone else was involved, while you were treated as if your experience didn't matter, and he was again, allowed to do anything. This is wrong, and he should have been sent away for hurting you right away.

I can also kind-of, understand that you bonded strongly with your foster siblings, even if they were hurting you or trying to kill you. Your sense of bonding at this point is so strong, because your survival within the community depends on you having someone on your side, at least a little, at least sometimes. And murder attempts are so common for you, it doesn't seem like a deal breaker, what you needed was someone to make life a little more livable, and despite all the harm, your foster siblings still were that for you. So you didn't want them to go away. That is human and normal. We humans will pick abuse and harm over being completely neglected, alone and isolated. I think your reaction was completely understandable.

It is terrifying to find out that foster homes have removals of kids in such brutal and punishing manner. This is cruelty to children, and I didn't know how horrid the reality of it was. I am so sorry that you were forced to live in such a place.  

About the human trafficking claim, the thing is that the ranking system they had for you, and the videos, do sound extremely oppressive and messed up, almost like they were training you to be obedient and then creating a catalogue for potential 'owners' to watch. It doesn't sound like something loving parents would want to do when picking out a kid, they'd want to spend time with the kid, get to know them personally, not hear about 'qualities' and watch a video that proves obedience. Coupled with the fact that after you were adopted, you were forced to work from the age of 7, and construction work as well, makes it sounds extremely like human trafficking to me. I mean, it's not a 100%, because I assume even in these circumstances, it's possible for a kid to get adopted without necessarily being put to work for no wage (which is human trafficking, being put in a position where you're forced to work to survive, often in bad conditions and without money, or benefits, you only get your life), but the situation they set up sounds like it was made specifically to attract traffickers – in this case, people who wanted a child laborer, with a promise that the kid would be extremely well behaved, obedient, and would do any work required of them. While for complete diagnosis of human trafficking, the foster home would have to take money from the parents in order to take the kids – and I don't know if this is the case or not, I'm not knowledgeable about how foster systems work, it's possible that the money exchange is secretly taking place, or that the person who set it up this way did it on purpose, and is financially benefitting from kids being given to those who are most likely to use them for free child labour. So what I think is that it definitely does cause human trafficking. It created the perfect setup for it and it attracts people who can pick out who they want for free labour. If anyone reading this knows more about it, or could give a better analysis of this, please do. It does look like trafficking to me. Not even necessarily because of the CD's, more because of the obedience training and hierarchy, but the CD's sound so cold and alarming and not like something genuine adoptive parents would want to experience.

It's alarming to know that your foster parents changed your name, modifying your entire identity, and forbade you from learning a lot about your past. It sounds like they were set on controlling who you are allowed to be, and who they are in the story (it's probable they were trying to build a story of saving you, from your horrible birth parents, they would surely look good in comparison no matter what they did, given how extremely you were abused in the past.)

The fact that you worked construction, without any safety measures, without protection or any regulations or rewards, proves that this labour was extracted from you in return for your life, which is trafficking. Even your physical illnesses and pains were ignored. This is something that would be brutal even to an adult to endure, and is generally considered a cruel and unsurvivable thing to go thru. I can tell that after your past, a person who doesn't physically hurt you or make you cry is a big improvement and gave you a sense of physical safety, even if you were required to constantly offer labour in return for life, at least it wasn't pain, damage, life threats and murder attempts, so it makes perfect sense that this just felt, a little off! It's extremely common for victims of abuse, to continue going thru life while suffering some lesser amounts of abuse and thinking it was nothing, or it's no big deal, because we're so used to horrid treatment, anything better than the worst seems like a walk in the park, and we're just grateful that things aren't worse for us. So your reaction to it is completely logical. It's only in the context of looking at it from the eyes of a not-abused person, that it looks pretty horrifying, having to work construction as a child, with a person who fails to have any bond with you, while having effectively no caretakers, nobody to emotionally rely on, all while just being grateful things aren't worse.

Your foster mother was parentifying you, meaning she wanted you to take care of her, instead of it being the reverse. It's disturbing that they called your brain 'defective', because it's anything but that, your brain is one of the most brilliant masters of survival, you should be given a lot of credit for going thru all of what you did, and ending up this intelligent, coherent, communicative, clear and understanding. I understand you had to become this way out of necessity and because you had no other choice, but I believe you should still be given credit that you did all that, despite how little you had to work with.

It's also disturbing they only allowed you to watch construction and murder, it's like they wanted your entire world to be reduced to working, and knowing that you can be killed at any minute, it's almost like a threat and a blackmail in order to keep you obedient and working at all times – not that they needed to, you were already in so much terror it was unlikely you would disobey.

The 'special privilege' your mother was claiming to give you was really just parentification, possibly emotional incest (asking massages and expecting you to emotionally cater to her needs). It's very likely that she could be narcissistic. The core lessons she taught you were so dehumanizing and put you in a position where you could only have worth as much as you can be of use to her – which is how narcissist view others. This is not normal or common. You were human the entire time, more human than she was.

You are more than capable of experiencing and effectively describing reality, the way you described it here to me is both eloquent and easy to understand, regardless of how horrifying and dark your reality is. You are good at expressing what happened, and at analyzing it as well. So why would she set rules that would blame you for everything bad that ever happened to you, when you had absolutely no control over it? In order to be able to do more bad things to you, and never be held accountable. She also wanted to keep you silent from ever telling on her (if you talk to others you'll spread the curse) and if you are inconvenient or troublesome we can kill you (it's not hard to hide a body). I feel like you already understand that all of the rules are only self-serving for her, and made so that again, she'd have so much power over you, she could get away with anything.

But in reality, all of those core values are bullshit, and only a cruel, inhumane and evil person could ever impose that on a child (or any other person, really).

I know it can feel devastating that even after all that abuse, you ended up in another threatening, dangerous and exploitative situation, but again, this is pretty common for victims of heavy abuse, that we often find ourselves in some other version of abuse, and usually we go bit by bit until we reach a healthier stage. You can move on from this and find a better environment that will value your humanity in a real way. You were never anything other than human, but you were put in a lot of situations that made it hard for you to feel that, or rather, too painful to feel it. It's easier on the heart to believe you do deserve all this, and that you are to blame, rather than to think that you were a helpless, blameless kid subjected to cruelty for no other reason than someone wanted it, and could get away with it.

To answer your questions:

Even though your life is so dark, I find myself relating to the parts of the story, which scares me, but also gives me hope that you can find a way to freedom, even with a situation this dire. I can tell that you're calm and collected thru it all, which I admire, but it also makes me think you are completely numb and dissociated from the pain you're experiencing, so that you could talk coherently and calmly. However, you're asking for an outside perspective of someone who doesn't think it's all normal – while I don't think it's normal at all, I might not be the best outside perspective, since I'm also viewing it from the lens of abuse. I think true outside perspective would be to be completely and utterly horrified, shocked, devastated and shaken by everything you've been thru, which I do feel as well, but I'm not going to be of much help if I give in to feelings.

The CD's themselves, I don't think are a proof of trafficking, though they are weird, cold, and combined with everything else, do play a part in enabling the trafficking. It is good to ask questions, there are people who know and understand far more about human trafficking, and you should keep asking, and pointing out what feels off to you. You did end up in a situation where two people with absolutely no desire to care for a child, have gotten a child who was sure to obey their orders, work for them for free, take care of one of them emotionally, and endure dehumanizing and threatening environment. This is a form of trafficking – and I should say, trafficking doesn't always feel like you're trafficked. It feels like 'this is just what life is and I should be grateful that it's not worse, because I know worse, I could be dying on the street right now, but if I do this I'll be allowed to live'. And I believe that you are in this situation, and it's not your fault, and there's not much you can do about it immediately.

I don't think its normal for any kind of parents to expect you to raise yourself. That is just severe neglect and parentification (expecting the child to act the role of a parent or a caretaker). You should have had meals and clothes provided to you, you should have had actual care and gentleness and opportunity to talk about what happened to you and what is bothering you. And you should have never been give to people who would mess you up even further, do damage to your brain, threaten you or try to convince you that you're not human. You should have gotten help with homework and everything else. You shouldn't have been put in a situation where you're responsible for the care of very young children when you were 6. You should have been taken places and given happy experiences. You should have been given good living conditions and peace of mind. You should have been told that you're a good child, that you're doing well, and that everyone wants you around and is proud of you.

I'm curious about the forest, because I love the forest, does it feel safe for you to be in the nature? I want to be in the forest forever.

4. And your fourth question about the construction work – no, thats trafficking. Your room should not have been used as a storage either. You were used as a free worker and a servant, and not treated as a child there to be cared for and healed from sever trauma. Also your foster mother pushing you to suicide, thats hateful and gross. It should have never happened.

5. It's not wrong for you to be upset. You were wanted as a free worker because they realized it would be easy to threaten you into obedience, and that you're way too scared of adults to ever disobey, or complain about anything. Your trauma put you in a situation where you would once again, be exploited. It's also normal for you to still feel like an orphan, since none of your parents did any caretaking, or took the role of actually parenting you at any point, they did not build a bond with you, they only kept using you, and you had no idea of knowing that this wasn't normal, or that it was neglect and abuse. It's normal to be mad at other people who take their families for granted, when it's something you sacrificed everything for. It really is not fair.

6. You did well to figure out that your foster parenting experience is not normal, that could not have been easy. Compared to your birth parents, I believe, anyone would seem amazing. Just less violence and less murder threats is amazing compared to constant attempts and constant violence. The only way you could have judged them is by comparison, and your birth parents were off the charts, most cruel and vicious beings imaginable. And I appreciate you pointing out that you're not making a competition out of it, it's true, we're not making a competition, but we can say one type of abuse is more life threatening than the other, and that different abuse brings out different kinds of feelings and consequences, and that some types of sever abuse, make other types seem invisible, harmless, no big deal, or even amazing.

What you describe about your mother saying 'all you want to do in life is suffer' and laughing at you for needing psychological and physical help, even when you're suicidal, is once again, hateful and cruel behaviour, and nobody should have done this to you. Accusing you of 'wanting your suffering' is insane. Laughing at a suicidal kid is inhumane. That is not funny, to normal humans it's devastating.

Your mother treating you as an extension of herself sounds a lot like she's trying to achieve enmeshment and engulfed relationship, like what narcissistic mothers do, because she wants you to be bonded to her, but in a way that you care for her, while she doesn't care for you. This isn't fair, and it's not normal. You are not an extension of anyone, you are yourself, and you have the right to do things that benefit you, and only you, and it does not make you selfish. You also have the right to refuse the things that hurt you, and everyone should respect that. Removing access from food, water or online school, is violation of your human rights, and not a punishment that is normal, or legal to use. I am so sorry you were alone with them and brainwashed for so long. I feel that you are so incredibly intelligent that you will see thru it, and I'm sure you're right to say it. Being isolated with people who see nothing human in you, would brainwash anyone.

Again, I am so sorry for what everyone have put you thru, they had no right. The other events you're describing are also horrifying and sound too painful to bear. You were treated worse than people treat animals, and they could have not do any of this to you, and they would have been just fine. It was their choices to do this.

Thank you for reaching out and for answering my questions, I knew it was selfish of me to ask, but I'm glad you got back to me and responded. I hope my answer helps you a bit, and you can keep talking to me if you want to. I'll try to open my inbox sooner this time.

[golbrocklovely]

What would be the soundtrack to your life? Pick 3 songs for each stage of your life (child, preteen, teen, young adult, adult).

wow this is such a fun question, i love this :)

this was also very difficult to choose but i think i got it down. anything with a * is a song i personally related to at the time/still relate to.

childhood stage

hero by mariah carey

believe by cher

you're still the one by shain twain

bonus track: i hope you dance by lee ann womack

so when i was four years old, i decided i wanted to be a singer. and these songs were the reasons why i wanted to be. i remember distinctively listening to the radio with my mom, and these songs played all the time. the station we listened to was b101 - philly's soft rock station (at the time). i have such vivid memories of this time period, it's crazy. i also have a whole playlist of songs that i remember playing on this station, so if yall want me to share it, lemme know.

preteen stage

tangled up in me by skye sweetnam

love me for me by ashlee simpson

*underneath this smile by hilary duff

the preteen era of life, especially the tail end of it, was when i started getting more angsty, which led me into ppl like ashlee and skye, which then led me into the emo music. but i was also secretly a HUGE hilary duff fan. but since she wasn't cool anymore, i had to hide my love for her lol

also fun fact, i performed love me for me in a talent show in fourth grade. i didn't win, but it was one of the only times i've ever perform solo, especially that young.

teenage stage

take a breath by the jonas brothers

*alibis by marianas trench

*what a catch, donnie by fall out boy

bonus track: *stars by switchfoot

the jonas brothers are the reason i'm still alive today, honest to god. even tho i fell in love with them when i was 12ish, i'm gonna count them for my teenage years since that's when i was active in the fandom and constantly paying attention to them. i also found marianas trench around my early teenage years too, technically even before that, but they became major in my life as a teen. same with fob.

the album what a catch, donnie is on, folie a deux, i didn't like at the time it came out (2009). cut to me in junior year of hs, so 2013ish, i was IN LOVE with that album. so much so ppl knew i listened to that album on repeat all the time. to this day that album fucking slaps.

young adult stage

*caught in the middle by paramore

*that green gentleman by panic! at the disco

*astoria by marianas trench

bonus track: good day by dnce

i know that panic are problematic now, but back when i was in college, the drive up to my university, i would listen to the entirety of pretty odd the whole way. it was the only thing that genuinely calmed me down and centered me before school. i think hearing "things have changed for me, and that's okay" really helped me. bc this was such a dark time for me, since two out of the four years i went to college i was suicidal.

caught in the middle, i remember when that album came out, and hearing that song on vacation with my family and just immediately feeling connected to that song. and astoria was such a good time capsule of my life at the time and how it felt to me. and good day… me and my mom, any time we were in the car, would listen to dnce's album, and we loved this song lol still to this day too

adult stage

*the grudge by olivia rodrigo

*so much for stardust by fall out boy

*crave by paramore

bonus track: anything but me by muna

these were a bit harder to pick, bc i feel like i'm only just starting to feel like an adult. but i'm thinking anything from 25 thru to now counts. and that's when a lot of things started changing for me. i've also been reflecting a lot more, which is how i relate to songs like crave. so much for stardust really feels like what the last couple years have felt on me in a way; thinking life was so much harder before but now realizing no - this is hard. and the grudge is just the perfect embodiment of my ten year friend with my ex best friend ending.

but not all is lost. bc anything but me really is how i feel now. i would also like to add another bonus bonus track: the art of starting over by demi lovato. that song also kinda encompasses me beginning a new, and trying to figure everything out. i'm hopeful, but not sure yet of what to do.

[yourlocaldisneyvillain]

(Not hate) okay so about that one controversial fic. I’m not gonna say anything bad about but I’m actually just genuinely curious why you decided to write something like that? Considering that there’s way less controversial things to write about, why did you decide to write that?

i think i answered something similar a while ago, but it got lost on my blog bc i am incapable of tagging things properly lol i can never find anything

i am a person that likes to be challenged. i like taking an unusual or controversial concept and exploring it (one of the reasons i invented and did kink!week, where i challenged myself to write abt unusual/odd/misunderstood kinks and tried to make it genuinely hot, even if i personally wasn't necessarily into it). truth is, i got bored with the fanfic community and the type of content that was preferred, and i was honestly bored with it for a while before writing this fic. no hate to fandom writers -- i think there is a place and an audience for everyone, but i craved a different type of content, both to read and to write. i felt like i was expected to throw out fics that are basically all a variation on the same concept, and i felt i'd go nuts if i read one more larissa x teacher!reader self-insert fic. i felt like the content was just used for self-insert gratification and porn with little to no plot or actual character exploration/development. and honestly, nothing wrong with that, but i was hungry for stories with substance, or even slightly more imaginative smut, if we're talking smut (and let's be real this is a very horny fandom lol).

so one morning i was scrolling through the Webbed Site, as one does, and i stumbled upon a larissa x wednesday fic by a person whose username i honestly don't even remember, but they were not a popular or a known creator. and i was like, what the hell, let's see if this is cringe and if it is i can be Outraged with my wife later. and while Some of it was cringe, i felt like there was actual substance to the story and that their dynamic made sense, even if there were bits that i disliked and the grammar was very poor. and i was like, wow, that actually felt refreshing to read, even with its many flaws. at least it was original.

so i started to wonder -> under which circumstances would these two characters actually make sense? how do i create a world in which that relationship would work? i love to challenge myself as a writer, and i thought about it until i came up with a narrative that could support my idea!

i am honestly surprised by how many people are appalled by the concept of ageing up a character? that has been around for as long as fandom exists. i didn't think it would be *that* controversial, and if you read my story i honestly don't think there is anything Outrageous in it. in fact, i think it's much, much tamer than MANY popular fandom works. i expected some backlash bc people are generally close-minded online and have very Specific ideas abt what is Moral and what is Not, but i didn't expect people to go *this* nuts lol. i am better prepared for next time, i guess

and even if my work was like. Immoral and Horrible, it's fiction. if you don't like it, don't read it. i feel we encounter a genuine problem when people try to control and police other people and the type of content that gets written and posted -- a lot like young people trying to erase "problematic tags" from ao3. i am not saying certain things aren't problematic, but there is a distinction to be made between fiction and real life. people are allowed to write about whatever they want to write about, and it doesn't make them criminals, murderers, pedophiles, or morally corrupt and evil.

i honestly think most people who have accused me of promoting pedophilia wouldn't recognise sexual abuse if it was happening before their eyes irl lol. and besides, i never said oh go fuck your former teacher, that's a great idea!!! (i know fandom people who have bragged abt doing that though lol) i have simply written a story about two characters that are both consenting adults, and you can take it or leave it.

i am, in fact, writing a new fic that does deal with pedophilia, ephebophilia to be precise with my terminology, sexual assault and cycles of abuse -- how and why they happen and whether they can be broken and how. it's a very personal story and i pull a lot from my own life experience with sexual abuse as a minor. it's, obviously, not a romance or a ship story, but it *is* set in the wednesday universe -- and i am SURE i will get another bout of "kill yourself" messages, to which i say, i don't give a shit. i think people who send that type of shit are sad and deranged -- and tbh, you can send me those day in and day out and i would still i post whatever the fuck i wanted. i got angry with all the ignorance and hate that i witnessed after i published "particular" and i now feel the need to write what people think they witnessed in my story.

all that being said, i am also a person that likes to poke at the status quo. my answer to "why" is "why not?" so you can take that as you will. i am not harming anybody and i don't see why i should be apologetic about writing a fic that i wanted to write.

i appreciate you asking a genuine question and not hiding behind anon! this is my genuine answer, and i hope it's somewhat satisfying -- if not, that's too bad bc it's the only one i've got.

[hella1975]

Whats the most 'wtf' threat-message-comment thing you remember getting?

Maybe not a mean comment, but the most like 'why do you feel comfortable saying this to me' thing?

oh to be honest ive never received any actual AWFUL asks/comments but i have received a lot that toe a very fine line to the point i cant even remember all of them. like it's clear there was never any malicious intent but some people just reallyyyyy do not understand boundaries. most of the time i just wont answer but if im in a bad mood i tend to tell you guys off for it lmao so you've actually probably seen the worst ones.

i guess not threatening or mean, but one comment that has always stuck with me just bc of how 'wtf?!' i was about it is this one commenter i had on ao3. they were a reallyyy loyal commenter for MONTHS like every single chapter they'd leave at least a paragraph, and two thirds of the para would always be pure praise for my writing, which was why it was kinda complicated bc i KNEW the rest of the comment wasn't intended to be criticism, they were just the kind of person that clearly didn't have a filter. so what they'd do is they'd say all these compliments, but then they'd say what they DIDNT like about my writing. and my attitude with fanfiction is that unless the work is actively problematic, you just do not tell the author their shortcomings. idc if this isn't a widely held opinion; it's my opinion. ao3 authors are giving us this shit for FREE out of their own time more often than not while balancing jobs and a social life - it is their HOBBY and it's not your place to tell them you dont like their plot or the way they wrote something. write it yourself if it bothers you so much. and so for ages i just didnt respond to this person's comments even though MOST of the comment they'd leave would always be positive, bc the tagged on parts always felt passive aggressive. like they were clearly part of the Annoying atla fandom bc they'd always get annoyed when any of the characters held zuko accountable for anything. they openly admitted that they just wanted zuko to be babied and didn't like it when people were mean to him, a sentiment that REALLY pisses me off, and they were also SUCH a katara anti which, yk, red flag. but it was fine. it wasn't a big deal, i could handle the comments and i genuinely just forgot about them as soon as i read them.

BUT THEN one day they left me a comment being like 'im going to stop reading this fic' which that alone is such an odd thing to alert the author about, but then they proceeded to explain to me why they weren't going to read anymore. like they spent an entire para being like 'this is why i dont really like this fic anymore' LMAO?? and i distinctly remember them saying something about zi se and how they hated him partially because they hate kids but mostly because he was an OC which i just thought was such a fucking funny thing to say like the cheek?? i was flabbergasted and i was kind of sick of their shit at that point, so my response was (para-phrased): 'not to be rude but in future i think you should consider when commenting on fics if your comment is actually necessary.  it can be very discouraging as a writer to be told directly by a reader that they don't enjoy your story and don't like the direction you're taking it. i'm confident enough in taob and my own abilities that i can brush it off very easily, but i'm just worried that if you said this to a newer or smaller fic writer it could really impact their confidence. the decision to stop reading isn't the issue here, it's just that you felt the need to explicitly tell me about it' which i thought was very hot and mature of me. like i very rarely pull out the 'taob is one of the biggest fics in a very big fandom' card but when dealing with rude people i have no shame in being like 'i will not miss a single reader like you realise that right i will not notice if you stop reading' so yeah as an experience it was all just very odd JSKDGHKJDSH

[emblemxeno]

Wait. Wait. I'm out of the loop. Isn't Jeritza a serial killer? Wasn't he kidnapping and (implied yo be) killing women from the village near Garreg Mach even BEFORE he kidnapped Flayn?

Are people REALLY touting that as positive representation or did I miss something??

When he was released as part of the update, I hardly saw anyone criticize him for being bad rep or problematic or anything else. (Which also could be because he was the second option for mlm in the game itself, but I digress)

Which, in a vacuum, I have no issue with since I personally don’t care what kind of queer representation I get in media like Three Houses, where the point is to be entertained, not to make a statement on current affairs or whatnot.

However, when not in a vacuum, this is the same community that raked Niles and Rhajat over the fuckin coals for being awful, harmful, and dangerous representation in Fates.

A damaged queer man who uses words to push people away and only opens up to the people he genuinely loves and a young queer woman who just wants to make friends despite her odd nature and who gets anxious over her sexuality before being accepted by her loved one

are somehow worse representation than an actual serial killer who is constantly babied by other characters and by the audience because of his love for sweets and his sister.

The hypocrisy is what I hate. Niles and Rhajat got so much shit for not being perfect unproblematic queer characters, only for Jeritza to somehow get a pass (and Soleil of all characters to be lauded as Fates’ actual LGBT representation).

It sucks and I’ve been salty about it since he was released. 

[mc-critical]

Hello! Hope you're having a good day

I have a question about mck. I haven't watched it but I've seen a lot of cuts from episodes on youtube and fan's discussions so I hoped you might explain something to me.

Everybody says that Kosem killed her sons only for power and it wasn't for the good of the country. Is that true? Was Murad a good ruler in the show? All I know is that he was harsh and in the end wanted to kill his brothers. What Ibrahim? In history he clearly made a very poor ruler. What about the show?

Hi!

Fans often have different interpretations of the subject matter and what is perceived on-screen, so some of them might say that Murat IV was a good ruler in the show and some might say that he isn't. Really depends on what you consider a good ruler - is it someone who goes on campaigns and wins wars for his country, is it someone who cares about the people, the janissary and their opinions above all else or is it someone who considers himself unquestionable authority and refuses to take any advice, even if they took the wrongest, most problematic decision ever?

To me, show!Murat is anything but a good ruler. He ascends the throne as a kid, with Kösem as a regent, and I feel that he never actually gained any experience in how to truly rule the state. And yet, when the time comes for him to actually take matters into his own hands, he is ecstatic to finally assert his will and dominance for everyone to see and learn. One of the key problems with him are that he not only wants his decisions to be completely unparalleled and undebated, he considers everything he does as right out of principle. He has the mindset that every single decision he takes is absolutely correct and is beneficial for the state, but not because it's actually correct or beneficial, but only because he's the padişah and "the shadow of God on Earth". And there are quite a lot of decisions that are problematic at best (forbidding alchohol and then you yourself drink it) and outright destructive and dangerous at worst. (leaving just like that, even it's after a traumatic event for you, caused a huge literal revolt!) And even if he realizes what he's doing isn't right, he ignores every kind of advice when people around him tell him to do the precise opposite. This guy is so drowned in his own ego and authority that he destroys everyone around him.

But then again, there's that side of things where, writing-wise, you understand where all that comes from - most of Murat's flaws as a ruler stem from the massive past trauma of Osman's death, which only caused irreparable damage to the mind of such a small kid. It created such unrelenting paranoia that Murat began to forever believe that he couldn't count to anyone but himself. This is what his "meeting" with Osman in E47 symbolizes, he hears both what he wants to hear and that part of Osman which could never accept Kösem's outside interference. That's also the episode where "one Murat went away, there comes the other" and there he began to go further into the abyss of his own beliefs. Murat has Süleiman's paranoia, but upped to eleven in a more offending form, because while with Süleiman this paranoia grew gradually and he could let it go more easily, because despite of all he knew how to rule a good state, with Murat it was always there from the very start, constantly preventing him from doing the right thing, especially due to the constant fear of being manipulated and deceived by someone else (just like Osman thought he was.) and always thinking he's in his mother's shadow.

Speaking of which, Kösem and Murat's dynamic is the central conflict of season 2 of MCK and that's not only an interpersonal character conflict, as it would seem at first glance to someone who's new to the franchise in example, it's a conflict of one newly established and another already established powers in the palace that would never back down and fight for what they think is right. Kösem and Murat have a different relationship with the state. The state for Kösem has a dynamic role - firstly, it was a role she had to accept for the greater good (her standing in front of the people in Ahmet's name in E07 of season 1.), then she saw herself engrained in it due to her strong sense of justice. (getting revenge for her father, trying to expose Fahrye, then Handan and Derviş and lastly, ''protecting the country" from Iskender.) By season 2 country and power are already synonymous to her due to her fully taking the responsibility of a regent and taking the country in her wing of protection, always keeping an eye on it and consistently representing it without a second thought. The state for Murat, however, is static - it is something given to him by God himself, it is something he takes for granted, without truly trying to improve it. The first steps he takes as a ruler is to seemingly "clear" his own path, to remove the traitors around him. And while that seems correct and valid at first glance, he never sees the bigger scheme of things, due to his paranoia. He doesn't see the people who actually conspire to remove him (which is why he never found out the true traitor in his palace and died, thinking this person was the most loyal man ever.), but sees what he wants to see, this shadow who is looming in for years. Murat thinks his mother is a problem, which is why the first step he takes, is to immediately remove her regency and then send Kemankeş to follow her around. These two forces clash with each other incessantly, with their opinion of a state at constant odds. There have been many times throughout the show where Murat does a problematic thing, Kösem tries to snap him out of it and fails, because he doesn't want to listen to her no longer. He's always felt that she overshadowed his own reign, even in her regency years (see the flashbacks in E56.) and he wants to believe that he's already a big man, a person who can do anything, even with a big lack of experience. So whoever tries to give him decent advice is immediately washed off and out of the question, because who are they, they don't know better, he's the only one who does. This mindset is reflected as totally wrong in the show with the people and the janissary despising him, with the numerous revolts (the season literally began with a revolt.), with the multiple traitors around him, with everyone (Atike and Farya aside) turning against him sooner or later. That of course isn't appreciated by Kösem, and she, being the self-and not-so- self- proclaimed representative of the state, tries to fix this all, even if it means acting behind Murat's back. She doesn't really wish her son harm only due to him eclipsing her own power, she just sees the genuine flaws of his rule and is willing to achieve everything to fix it. Later on she began to indeed consider him as unworthy due to all the mistakes he made, claiming that the country is able to defend itself and listing qualities that all padişahs should possess like virtue and justice. She saw how messy all of it became and instinctively began to search for solutions that even came to ending him. (her ordering the doctor to cease healing his illness.) The narrative doesn't actually condemn this choice, highlighted by Murat's last flashback with him reuniting with his mother.

Murat is the one that killed Kasım and Bayezid in show, because he considers them a threat to his own power, first and foremost. Bayezid's the primary one, him being the eldest heir, with people wanting him on the throne from the get-go, when Murat was alive. Murat doesn't accept threat to his own power, and his brothers aren't exceptions, even though he told them certain times that he wouldn't put them in the kafes or take their life. Even though Bayezid became so much like his toxic mother (Gülby, I love you, but sorry.), prone to revenge, harsh actions and gaining questionable one-sided morality, his death was heartbreaking. As for Kasım, Murat took drastic measures, because Kösem thought Murat was dead and tried to calm down the people by bringing to them Kasım exactly as the next sultan. This was extremely harsh, because after all Kösem used it only as a desperate measure, to calm the people down and to apply the most optimal solution. Putting Kasım in the cafes when you once said that you wouldn't is honestly chief irony, reaching Süleiman's level, but worse.

Yes, Kösem was the one who ultimately sealed the pact to kill Ibrahim, but this was due to manipulation. Turhan Sultan wanted his death to pave the way for her little son and gain absolute power, so she indeed pushed Kösem's love and dedication to the country against her. She was put in a position where she had no other choice but to accept - we had a mentally ill Sultan as a ruler, one who could be reckless, one who could cause imbalance and instability and one who also doesn't really listen. So she decided his destiny and the theme of the loss of innocence, the core theme of the whole show, came full circle. She killed Ibrahim, but she wasn't happy with it, she was devastated and her conscience spoke so loudly, she couldn't unhear it. And that deed of hers made her give it all up - by the time of her death, she only wanted piece, nothing else, and she wasn't even interested in who gets the ring of power and she wasn't all that focused on her own death, either. Life was over for her.

Anyway, yeah, it all depends on interpretations of the events and characters and where your sympathies extend. MCK has really interesting and complex themes and I wholeheartedly recommend for you to watch it to drive your own conclusions. Thanks for the question and have a nice day!

[amoralto]

I find George's fondness of John quite odd if not kinda creepy. I mean John practically cut George out of his life after their fight, Im sure George wanted to remember the good memories John and not bad mouth him, it's not a bad thing it's how he brings it between him and Paul that's quite disturbing because Paul wasn't the only one who hurt him John had a hand in it as well and though I can understand he idolized him and all, but not sure George is lettinys on less than he knows like denial

Hmm. I wouldn’t call it “creepy”, but the seemingly inexplicable partiality can be difficult to wrap one’s head around, I’ll grant you. I’m not sure how far I should go into this, since you’re bringing up several points of discussion that are all pertinent to an ask I’ve been in the process of writing an answer to at the distracted pace of an apprehensive snail progressing through a sea of soporific molasses, but I can skim the surface of it.

Basically, I think the distinction between George’s relationship with John and George’s relationship with Paul could conceivably be boiled down (regrettably simplistically but nonetheless inherently) to:

a. George and John have issues, George keeps quiet about them in public, George and John develop an emotional strain to (if not utter estrangement of)  their relationship in private. (Time is not on their side and George and John establish but do not get to maintain some form of occasional/semi-regular correspondence before John is killed. Formal reconciliation, whatever you may believe it entails, is beside the point.) 

b. George and Paul have issues, George is blithely open about them in public, George and Paul retain a familial (if not always friendly) closeness to their relationship in private. (Time is arguably not on their side either but George and Paul have established and do get to maintain some form of occasional/semi-regular correspondence before George passes away in a secret fortified residence Paul prepared for him. Formal reconciliation, whatever you may believe it entails, is beside the point.) 

The whys and hows of this are where it all gets very sticky and tricky to parse, of course; I preemptively refer to my as-yet-unfinished reply for further elucidation. Now I almost feel like I’m setting essay questions for the class in some absurd conceit - “Consider this quote in relation to point a.” or whatever - but uh, yes, for the moment, here are a couple of quotes (whats) of some relevance for your consideration, with a bit of my own vapid commentary—

For George and John, from George’s interview w/ Anthony DeCurtis for Rolling Stone (November 5th, 1987):

DECURTIS: What was your relationship with John during that period when he was living in New York and not recording or playing? Were you in touch with him?

GEORGE: I saw him a couple of times. I didn’t often go to New York, but when I was in New York, I’d go see him, and he was nice. He was always enthusiastic. That period where he was cooking bread and stuff, I always got an overpowering feeling from him. Almost a feeling that he wanted to say much more than he could, or than he did. You could see it in his eyes. But it was difficult.

DECURTIS: In what way?

GEORGE: Well, you’d read all these stories [from him] – and they’d keep coming all the time – about how The Beatles weren’t actually anything. That they didn’t mean anything. That he was the only one who had a clue about anything – and the wife. There was a definite strained relationship right from the White Album. There was a lot of alienation between us and him. Well, there was alienation amongst all of us. It was particularly strained because having been in a band since being kids, then suddenly we’re all grown up and we’ve got all these other wives. That didn’t exactly help. All the wives at the time really drove wedges between us. And then after the years, when I saw John in New York, it was almost like he was crying out to tell me certain things, or to renew things, relationships, but he wasn’t able to, because of the situation he was in.

Problematic wife-blaming aside, this is intriguing not just because George confirms that he did visit and see John during the househusband years (which I don’t recall John ever mentioning in his last interviews), but because this is one of the rare times he is openly critical of John - specifically and in rather heartwarming fashion, about the Necessarily Absolutist (If Not Actually Honest) reductions and dismissals of the Beatles John made in the press. (Although one could argue he’s still not holding John entirely accountable for his words and actions, as he seems to be projecting somewhat, implying Yoko had never stopped being John’s de facto filter (something which George had been less than thrilled by during the Get Back/Let It Be sessions) and that her pervasive opinion and influence had muzzled John to an extent. (And I probably agree with you on some denial coming into play on George’s part, on points not even related to this one.)

For George and Paul, George’s interview w/ Mick Brown for Rolling Stone (April 19th, 1979):

BROWN: Do you like the music Paul is making now?

GEORGE: I think it’s inoffensive. I’ve always preferred Paul’s good melodies to his screaming rock & roll tunes. The tune I thought was sensational on the London Town album was “I’m Carrying”, but all the noisy, beaty things I’m not into at all. But then that’s not only with Paul’s music, that goes right across the board. I’m not a fan of that sort of punky, heavy, tinny stuff. I like a nice melody.

…

BROWN: It seems as if Paul was the Beatle with whom you were least compatible musically – you’ve gone on record as saying you wouldn’t play with him again.

GEORGE: Yeah, well now we don’t have any problems whatsoever as far as being people is concerned, and it’s quite nice to see him. But I don’t know about being in a band with him, how that would work out. It’s like, we all have our own tunes to do. And my problem was that it would always be very difficult to get in on the act, because Paul was very pushy in that respect. When he succumbed to playing on one of your tunes, he’d always do good. But you’d have to do fifty-nine of Paul’s songs before he’d even listen to one of yours. So, in that respect, it would be very difficult to ever play with him. But, you know, we’re cool as far as being pals goes.

How is this contrary to the common consensus of Paul-and-George? It isn’t, really, but I think what many people choose to focus on are the sardonic swipes and same-old comments about Paul’s tendency to be domineering the studio, which they then point to as incontrovertible proof of their Fundamental Lack Of Togetherness, in wilful ignorance of everything else - from George’s easy compliment of Paul’s gift for melody (which he gave freely even at the worst of times) to the fact that it is indicated at the beginning of the interview that George had just come from spending the morning hanging out with Paul. You don’t willingly spend your precious free time in the company of someone you don’t appreciate and/or have a genuine deep-rooted affinity with, beyond the old-hat and the grievances.

(And for at least one instance of George crisply calling both John and Paul out: George on ‘Not Guilty’.)

You know, now that I think of it, George regarded both John and Paul as untouchable, but in different ways, hence the different approaches:

a. John as the fickle older hero figure from higher education was an imposing but brittle construct, practically iconographic, seemingly above or exempt from blame for his actions, and thus perennially absolved of it; and

b. Paul as the matter-of-fact barely-older brother figure from the buses was a load-bearing support, infuriatingly domestic, seemingly unmoved or unfazed by criticism of his actions, and thus perennially relegated to receiving it.

(… My sincerest apologies to @sarahthefluff for this aimless rambling non-answer. With any luck I’ll be able to answer you properly next time.)

[maeve-of-winter]

I'm curious as to why you can't seem to have a larger conversation about Riverdale and race w/o mentioning Cheryl? Like even your comment about Josie had to be in the context of Cheryl stalking her in season 2. What about the fact that Josie is ignored for the whole series? Toni was introduced in season 2 as a prop for Bughead. Just bc she wasn't a series regular, doesn't mean they couldn't have told us about her parents lol. I get why you don't like Cheryl, but is she really the only issue?

Lol, anon. And I’m curious about why you think Cheryl should be left out of all discussion of racism in Season 2? I guess since you were unable to come up with a rebuttal to my points about Cheryl stalking Josie and framing Chuck, we’re right back at “HDU, you’re interrogating racism from the wrong perspective!” 

 Honestly, why should I have to leave Cheryl out of my discussion on racism, other than that Cheryl fans and Choni fans don’t want to admit that there are odd racial implications surrounding her character? Why should I have to talk about other racial aspects of the show and not mention Cheryl? I mean, it’s not like the storyline of her stalking Josie is suddenly going to vanish from existence if I stop bringing it up. In fact, it’s that storyline, as well as the show’s refusal to treat it as significant, that made me dislike Cheryl. 

 This isn’t a case of me disliking Cheryl and then latching onto racism as justification. This is me genuinely disliking how her emotions and trauma are treated as so much more worthwhile and special while WOC’s emotions and trauma are consistently swept under the rug. That’s why I continually harp on it—I don’t think I’ve ever seen a modern example that’s so blatant in prioritizing a white woman’s pain over a black woman’s pain, and it’s something deeply bothers me, so I want to talk about it. I also want to talk about since no one else is, and because Choni is constantly praised as a deeply progressive relationship, when from a racial perspective, it absolutely isn’t. 

 Also, I’ve noticed that when I talk about this issue of Cheryl and Choni, I tend to get a bunch of protests like yours above to stop it, and it’s important to me to pull back the curtain on the racism in Riverdale fandom, too, and get rid of this notion that it’s evidently wrong to talk about racism when it involves someone’s fave. 

More to your point, it’s nearly impossible to have a discussion about racism in Season 2 without discussing Cheryl, since she’s heavily involved in the main plots of all five of the Black recurring characters. Four of them have her involved in deeply unpleasant ways, and the last one is still irritating and iffy. 

Let’s just go over how Cheryl is involved in the plots for the recurring black teens in Season 2: 

 Josie: In one of her only plots for the season (or ever), Cheryl stalks and terrorizes her while gaslighting her into believing it’s the Black Hood, Chuck, and then the Black Hope again. She destroys the Pussycats and leaves Josie isolated from them. She destroys her relationship with Chuck. The show completely forgets about this plot in favor of concentrating on Cheryl’s pain and fear and issues with her mom, and it’s not until nearly ten episodes that it’s briefly brought up again, but it’s brought up in the context of something hurt Cheryl, not Josie, and got her sent to conversion therapy. Then in the following episode, we get a very brief apology from Cheryl where the narrative excuses her behavior, and then it’s forgotten.

We NEVER get to see the Pussycats reunite. Cheryl NEVER has to face consequences for what she did that aren’t framed as a reason to feel sorry for her—the show actually turns around and paints Cheryl as a victim of her decision to stalk and harass Josie, rather than examining Josie as a victim of Cheryl. We NEVER get a get focus on how Josie feels about finding out that Cheryl was stalking her. We get maybe two minutes combined, if that? What we get is an extreme example of a white woman tormenting a black woman and getting entirely away with it. And any discussion of racism within Season 2 would be remiss if they didn’t mention it. 

The worst part is, Cheryl’s obsession with Josie came from Josie rescuing her from Nick. So Josie is essentially repaid by Cheryl (and the writers) for her heroism by having her life destroyed.

Melody and Valerie: After spending most of Season 1 in the background and getting just a few moments in the spotlight, they spend Season 2 almost entirely in the background before vanishing from the show entirely. Their only plot where they get any focus is when Cheryl, a white character, permanently destroys the friendship between them and Josie, three black characters. The Pussycats then break up for good, never to reunite. 

Chuck: In one of his only plots of the season (or ever), he is framed by Cheryl for stalking Josie, of which, of course, Cheryl is actually guilty and he is innocent. But as I mentioned before, there are unavoidable racial implications tied into white women knowingly falsely accusing black men of being predators. Historically, numerous black men have been lynched because of it. Cheryl essentially preys upon society’s fear of black men by accusing Chuck, even if that’s not her primary motivation—she’s still using racism to her advantage. And again, any discussion of racism in Season 2 would need to talk about this scene because of the ugly history surrounding it and the writers’ ready willingness to indulge in it. 

 What’s more is that again, we NEVER get to see how Chuck was affected by being falsely accused. We NEVER see Cheryl apologize to him. Similar to how Josie being stalked by Cheryl was treated as negligible and barely worthy of closure, Chuck’s circumstances as falsely accused black man is treated as wholly negligible and unworthy of closure or further attention. He is just yet another black character whose life Cheryl destroyed because she felt like it.

Toni: The one black teen cast member who wasn’t involved in the Cheryl stalks Josie. Instead, her character is treated as negligible in other ways. 

First of all, let’s address what you said about Toni being a prop for Bughead. She absolutely wasn’t. She demonstrably wasn’t. And while I’ve tried to avoid being rude, the assertion that she was is such a transparent display of, “What about this other thing, huh? Isn’t that problematic, too? Huh? HUH?” that it gives secondhand embarrassment. You obviously saw me and others discussing how Toni was a prop for Cheryl and instantly went, “Well, Bughead did it first!” It’s very predictable. 

To put it plainly, Toni wasn’t a prop for Bughead. She wasn’t introduced solely for encouraging the ship or just to help that out. She was introduced to an obstacle for them and a potential love interest for Jughead. The difference is that the latter allows her agency and independence. The former does not. She is essentially a secondary character for Jughead, but she is not his prop.But even if she was, if we go along with your logic of her being a prop for Bughead and then being a prop for Cheryl (which you don’t even deny), is having a black character go from being a prop from one white couple to another white character really progress? 

What I’m saying is that it wouldn’t be an improvement if Toni went from being Bughead’s prop to Cheryl’s. It doesn’t make it less problematic for her relationship with Cheryl, it just means that both relationships have issues with racism. Neither one is better than the other. So for all your trying, Cheryl still isn’t in the clear. 

 But I don’t agree that Toni *was* a prop for Jughead or Bughead. She was his secondary character and mainly to introduce him to the world of the Southside, but not a prop like she was and still is for Cheryl. 

Let’s look at how Toni is written in regards for each character. 

Jughead: Toni has her own interests in school newspaper and photography. She warns him that if he doesn’t join the Serpents, he’ll be targeted by the Ghoulies and is proven right. Tells Jughead numerous times when she thinks he being a dumbass. Tries to help decode the Black Hood’s cipher with Betty and Jughead and snarks on Betty’s ponytail. She has a one night stand with Jughead and dumps him the morning after because she realizes he isn’t what she needs. Discusses how her uncle has kicked her out of the house for her sexuality and is reduced to couch-surfing or else just living on the street. Has an identity as a Native American, encourages Jughead to meet with her grandfather and learn about her people’s heritage, gets angry when he appropriates her people’s suffering, advises Jughead on what he can do to make amends and helps him lead the protest at Pickens Park. Pushes back against Cheryl’s bullying when Cheryl, apropos of nothing, begins insulting Toni and all of the Southside students. 

Cheryl: For no adequately explained reason, suddenly starts reaching out to Cheryl, who has never apologized for the way she treated or anyone else and has never done anything nice for her in the slightest. Stops pushing back against Cheryl’s bullying and just accepts it so she continue to reach to help Cheryl, who responds to Toni’s kindness with homophobia, which she also never apologizes for. They get together in a scene all about Cheryl and Cheryl’s pain and suffering, with Toni making a speech about how awesome Cheryl is. Toni joins the River Vixens for no reason we get to hear other than that Cheryl wants her on the squad and then basically exists the next few episodes to comfort Cheryl. 

Is Cheryl still bullying other Southside students and just not Toni? Is Toni still being bullied by the students Cheryl was initially leading against the Southside students? We don’t know. The show doesn’t want to remember Cheryl being a bully or Toni being a victim. It’s all about Cheryl being a victim of everyone now. 

Case in point: the conversion therapy plot. Here Toni exists to rescue Cheryl from the Sisters, in a plot that’s not about Toni being badass or how much Cheryl means to her when she has so few other people, but to give a decidedly prurient examination of Cheryl’s pain and suffering and of how much of a victim she is. And when Toni shows up to rescue Cheryl, Toni gives another speech about how awesome Cheryl is. This plot exists not to “humiliate Cheryl,” as some have accused it of, but to paint Cheryl as the woobiest woobie to ever woob at the hands of her mother, uncle, religion, and society in general, and to also demonstrate that the show writers aren’t afraid to go to extreme and distasteful lengths to do that. The next episode has Toni joining the show musical mostly so she can be there to comfort woobie Cheryl about her monstrous mother and make yet another speech about how awesome Cheryl is. And the next and last time we get a plot that really focuses on Toni, it’s when Penny is holding her captive. 

And if you think that we’re going to get a focus on how traumatic this is for Toni and how hard she’s fought and how angry and scared she is about her situation, then you’ve forgotten that Riverdale doesn’t give a damn about black characters, because the scene exists to be 25% about Jughead outwitting Penny and 75% about Cheryl being a Badass Archer Warrior Goddess. 

 When Cheryl is captive and Toni is her rescuer, the show is about what a woobie Cheryl is. When Toni is captive and Cheryl is her rescuer, it’s about what a badass Cheryl is. But the focus is never, ever on Toni. And that’s why I’d say she’s a prop for Cheryl. 

Previously, I’d discussed Toni’s parents not being so much as named despite her main character status while Cheryl got detailed focus on her immediate family throughout multiple seasons, including an emphasis on all of the ways her mother had hurt her. In the second season, it didn’t bother me as much, since Toni was a secondary character. You’re right in that we could have been told her name, anon, either when she was Jughead’s supporting character or when she Cheryl’s character, but since she was still a supporting character, it didn’t honestly bother me that much. After all, we only learned Kevin’s dad’s name in the second season, and he’s an actual character on the show with a central role in the first season. 

However, it is glaring how few times Toni’s family receives even a mention when she’s supposed to be a main character during the third season, especially when she’s compared to Cheryl, who continually has plots involving her family.It really does look like the show is more interested in focusing on a screwed up wealthy white family in their big Gothic manor than a mixed black-Native who struggles with poverty and lives in a trailer. I’m just saying. 

 And consider this: we never learned her parents’ names, but when Toni was Jughead’s supporting character, we got to hear about her family. We got to hear about her personal struggles with her uncle and the problems he caused for her. We got to meet her grandfather, we got to learn about Toni’s culture, and we got to see how angry Toni was about Jughead appropriating her family’s history. Toni was allowed to have struggles as a bisexual teenager and a descendant of the Native Americans, and both were treated as entirely separate issues. 

 Contrast that to when Toni becomes Cheryl’s supporting character in Season 2 and continues to essentially be her supporting character in Season 3. I don’t think Toni’s uncle or grandfather ever get so much as a single other mention. And the only other time Toni���s identity as a WOC came into play was when it was relevant to college admissions. Even though Toni being kicked out of her house by her uncle would be a strong basis for Toni to relate to Cheryl’s issues with her mom, we never see it. And why? Because the Choni relationship is not written to be about Toni and Cheryl bonding together. It started as and almost always has been about Toni being unfailingly supportive of Cheryl. 

 And that’s why I say Toni wasn’t a prop for Jughead or Bughead but is one for Cheryl. She was a person with her own problems outside of Jughead when she was his supporting character. She wasn’t allowed the same agency when it came to Cheryl. 

TL;DR: Cheryl plays a major role in the plots of all the recurring black teen characters’ storylines in Season 2, with ugly racial implications for each one.