#it was confirmed in nwh she is michelle jones WATSON.

[trickybasterd]

mj being in sm4 doesnt automatically undo spell. she can still exist as a character. Peter's not gonna forget about her.

plus its heavily implied she remembers/ feels something when he leaves the coffee shop and she was still wearing the necklace.

i personally think all her peter memories with just be spider-man memories. i will be disappointed if they undo it straight away.

also sm 2 has peter pining after mj from a far. she still exists just not next to him. he loses his power because she might love him even he walked away in sm1

same with gwen in asm1 peter breaks up with her then in asm2, theyre together again. till he pushes her away again but he's still follows her and checks in on her.

they all losers that love hard.

[falllpoutboy]

What went wrong with Zendaya's MJ: How pandering to racist fans and lazy writing contributed to a travesty of a character

Before this post even begins, I just want to preface by stating that making up original characters for comic book movies is absolutely okay. Michelle Jones absolutely could’ve been a strong, fully fleshed out supporting character and love interest had they actually taken the time within the films to develop her character and her relationship with Peter. But did that actually happen???

When Zendaya, a young biracial black woman, was reportedly cast as Mary Jane Watson in 2016, racist fans went into an immediate uproar and decried it immediately (and are still mad about it). However after Homecoming was released and Zendaya’s MJ was nothing more than just a background character who only spoke quippy lines and never shared dialogue with her future love interest, it was clear to see this was not the MJW comic fans know and love. Kevin Fiege went on to confirm that when Zendaya was cast, they never planned for her to play Mary-Jane Watson, only Michelle, who was supposed to be a homage to her…?

So not only has this new generation of spiderman adaptation movies erased his most iconic love interest but they also created an OC who resembles nothing like MJW? Okay fine, thats fair (not really) but with an oc like Michelle, there’s flexibility and room in crafting stories for her. Who is Michelle Jones, what does she want, what does she need without realizing it, what’s her family like, does she actually like Peter, etc etc etc. Homecoming and Far From Home answered absolutely none of these questions (and when they do film the littlest scene to add to her character, its a deleted scene), and I sincerely doubt that No Way Home will either. (EDIT Post No way Home release: it did not)

Let’s be clear here, Zendaya’s MJ doesn’t exist outside of being Peters girlfriend. She is a part of his support system, a steady companion and a rock for him to lean on. It’s a cute and devoted relationship on paper but the narrative completely ignores who MJ is outside of him. Michelle Jones isn’t a character, she’s Peters shoulder to cry on, the object of his desire and his support blanket. MCU MJ is a blank slate outside of the vicinity of Peter Parker. It’s an incredibly unbalanced relationship and while Tom and Z have great chemistry, that's all there is holding them together. Their characters didn’t interact in Homecoming beyond her speaking at him in the last 10 minutes, she wasn’t in or mentioned in Infinity War or Endgame and then all of a sudden, Peter is now head over heels in love with MJ in FFH and wants to spend time with her on their European school trip and wants to be in a relationship with her. What the actual fuck just happened??

(It’s worth mentioning that pretty much almost every heterosexual relationship in the MCU is under developed and is overly beneficial to the male in its scenario, so at least MCU petermj isn’t that much of an outlier 🤷🏾‍♀️. )

Mary-Jane Watson is a beautiful, feisty, witty and smart girl who outwardly portrays an outgoing personality because of the abuse she suffers in her household so that people won’t see how sad she really is on the inside. More importantly, she isn’t solely defined as being a white redhead love interest as many racist spiderman fans think she is. MJW is a complex female character that isn’t a stereotypical female archetype and one I personally think Emmy award winner Zendaya has the acting chops to eat up if she were given the chance to. Instead of Mary-Janes feistiness, we got Michelle’s dry and awkward wit. Instead of beautiful fashionista Mary-Jane, we got frumpy Michelle. Instead of Mary-Jane’s tragic, character building backstory, we got Error 404 Page not Found Michelle. It’s safe to say which character I’d rather see on screen and which character I’d have preferred Zendaya portray. I place the blame solely on Jon Watts, The writers for Homecoming, FFH AND NWH, Kevin Fiege and Amy Pascal.

[spideyxchelle]

nwh spoilers ---

is it okay if i vent a little bit and say that while i'm glad that we learned her last name is watson, it just seems like they knew this would more than likely be her last time in the franchise, so the confirmation just feels a bit like cowardice to me because they were given a clear path to write her out instead of fully committing to her being the mj of this universe and making her more like her comic book counterpart. since a lot of people think she won't be returning, it just makes me wish we had gotten her backstory earlier and learned more about her before the memory wipe.

Your feelings are valid. I agree that Marvel could have done better by Zendaya at the start. They should have said with their whole chest that she was MJ Watson. Not doing so was cowardly af.

However, this is where I respectfully disagree with you. I do not need Michelle Jones Watson to be "more like her comic counterpart". Because comic book characters evolve constantly. The MJ Watson of the 1960s is not like the 1990s version or the version being written today. Characters go through evolutions and that is 1000% percent okay.

The particulars of characters in adaptations never bother me. It is more important to me that the integrity of their spirit is maintained.

For example, Peter Parker doesn't need to be a geeky photographer that works for the Bugle to be Peter Parker to me. All I care about is that Peter Parker is good. He is self-sacrificing. He believes in second chances. And he always does the right thing even when it is hard, especially when it is hard.

For MJ Watson, I don't need her to be a redheaded party girl who has a complicated home life and is an actress. It is more important to me that she is fierce and doesn't take shit and yet is somewhat guarded because she has faced disappointment, and that she is ride or freakin' die for Peter Parker. She is the wall he can lean against to crumble-- and he is the same person for her.

The details don't matter to me. They never did.

So yes, I agree with you 1000% that Marvel did Zendaya dirty by being shy about confirming she was MJ Watson from the start. But Michelle Jones Watson has all the best parts of Mary Jane Watson.

Also, don't lose faith, friend. Marvel does not have plans for this to be the last Zendaya as MJ appearance.

[lila-rae]

OH the other question i was going to ask for your opinion was whether you think they’ll create a sony version of these characters or stick with the original? naming MJ Michelle Jones instead of Mary Jane was a legal decision wasn’t it? something to do with sony not owning the characters? i’m not 100% sure and i don’t know how much you would know but i figured if you don’t know, someone will!

Sony definitely owns Mary Jane Watson and all the characters related to Spider-Man IP so there was no legal issue. They were just cowards who didn’t want to upset the comic bros and then realized how beloved Z is so tried so hard to push she was MJ Watson in NWH (like Peter calls her MJ Watson to the college admissions lady) and her last name was said at least 3 times after never being said for two movies.

I don’t know how they’re doing the whole MCU vs Sony’s Spider-Man Universe, cause they seem to be separate universes but I’m not sure what Sony’s end game is, especially they can’t make a good independent Spider-Man film to save their lives (excluding ITSV). NWH basically confirmed Venom is in a clearly different universe than MCU’s Earth-199999 where Tom’s Peter exists. Morbius is supposed to be the same universe as Venom I believe which makes me curious on if they’ll have multiple of the same characters eventually, supposing the MCU and Sony are serious about keeping Spidey in the MCU.

[futuregws]

I rewatched all the Spider-Man movies this week and Mary Jane Watson and Gwen Stacy have been such iconic love interests in the Spider-Man universe and both the actresses (Kirsten Dunst & Gwen Stacy) have been such show stealers that when you finish watching the movie they stay with you just as much as Tobey & Andrew. But when you watch Michelle Jones it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth and her character would never be considered 'iconic'. It was more creepy and cold than anything else.

And I think Marvel & Sony didn't even try to put any effort with her thinking that her "fanbase" would accept any trash thrown their way.

Also, both Jon Watts & Zendaya after NWH's release confirmed that Zendaya was given a lot creative freedom with the character. She was asked to play it however she wanted and this was her interpretation of the iconic "Mary Jane".

That's why Sony didn't let them use Mary Jane and Marvel was simply riding high on her being "MJ" and hoping fans would show her character the same amount of love because of the initials which is so unfair because everyone else has to earn their place.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on it?

I definitely think that they really did not try whatsoever with Michelle Jones they just wanted her there and boom there she was, there was never much thought put into it and I don't even think she has a fan base of her own the people that like her are her fans (Zendaya fans) and I feel like that's what it matters for them I don't think they were actually trying to get her to be more well known for herself which it's kinda sad to think of

[tomdutch]

I think in the next trilogy that they'll reintroduce Ned and MJ but in the second movie. They confirmed that Michelle Jones is the Mary Jane from the comics in NWH by stating that her last name is Watson, and I think there are so many people attached to the Peter and MJ dynamic that they will bring them back together at some point.

I don't think they'll introduce Gwen Stacy (or at least I think it would be a stupid decision) because of how beloved Emma Stone's Gwen Stacy is.

With the rumors about the Black Cat movie, I think they'll introduce her. I think they'll give her and Peter a flirtatious relationship like in the comics. Maybe they'll introduce Silk as well.

But, regardless of my own opinion on MCU MJ, I think they will most definitely try to get her back for Peter's last movie (or last two movies).

i think confirming she's mj watson was just to create a link between her and tobey's spidey, not to cement her position in the spiderverse. atp we don't even know for sure (?) that tom signed up for the trilogy, but i doubt they would bring her back as more than a cameo at most

[youngbugandtonystank]

how would you rewrite spideychelle in ffh and/or hoco?

I’ll answer this one with this ask:

I was reading your answers and... why is zendaya not mary jane w?? when you said it i never really thought about this because i was more excited about infinity war and the avengers but now... its the last spiderman movie and we know nothing about her character? i thought she was supposed to be something new and big like z said? whats going on??? 

Well, first of all, I would give Zendaya the original title of Mary-Jane Watson, I still believe it was racist not to give her this position. From what I understand, there was a rumor going around (2016) that the reason they didn’t give her the MJ title is because Stan Lee had it contracted that they couldn't race swap Mary Jane or Peter Parker, so they changed her name to Michelle Jones and made a different character while treating her as their version of what is supposed to be a homage to the comic character. The thing is, Marvel fought Sony really hard to get Peter into the MCU (in their own terms), so why not offer the lead lady the same treatment? I’m pretty sure they would do it for Gwyneth or Elizabeth Olsen. Also, the rumor doesn’t make sense because Stan Lee himself said this about the situation: ‘If she is as good an actress as I hear she is, I think it’ll be absolutely wonderful’

Gwyneth Paltrow is Pepper Potts and her character is called Pepper Potts. Scarlett Johansson is Natasha Romanoff and she’s called Natasha or Black Widow. Natalie Portman is Jane Foster and the character is called Jane Foster. Why change Zendaya’s character? 

‘She's not Mary Jane Watson. She never was Mary Jane Watson. She was always this new high school character, Michelle, who we know there's an 'M' in Michelle and an 'M' in Mary.’ - Kevin Feige.

‘She’s not Mary Jane, she’s this weird girl.’ - Tom Holland. 

In every interview, I feel second-hand embarrassment for her when the interviewers ask about character development for Michelle and she has to make mental gymnastics to answer and every time the convo comes back to romance and Peter; how Peter makes her feel, how she behaves around Peter, how Peter’s life is, how her character revolves around him. Even if Zendaya wanted to play the ‘I’m not like the other girls’ quirky loner girl, she could’ve been Mary Jane with that personality too. And what I’m going to share next is just my opinion and nothing is confirmed (just making sure because some people lack common sense lmao) I believe they fooled Zendaya and told her she created this original revolutionary character for girls, where Zendaya in almost all interviews states that ‘it’s ok to be weird, to not be like the other people and it’s fine to be’ etc, etc. But the thing is, that individualism and character traits she’s putting into the character don’t really matter because her character was treated as a love interest only. She couldn’t explore that individual part of her character because she’s written as ‘Peter’s observant’ friend and that is not a trait. Look at what they actually made her believe:

"My character is not romantic," Zendaya replied when asked if she would romance Peter on-screen. "My character is, like, very dry. Awkward. Intellectual. And because she's so smart, she just feels like she doesn't need to talk to people."

"I was lucky because they already kind of wanted to re-create the character and turn her into a new version of what I think maybe the original Mary Jane character represented, and just do it in our own way in this Marvel Cinematic Universe." - Zendaya. (Well, the MCU also has their own version of Peter Parker and they don’t call him Perkin Park; a homage to Peter Parker lmaoooo)

She went there thinking she would have a badass intellectual female character only to end up being the love interest without background, development or storyline. Let’s for a moment compare her to one of the extra characters, like Betty (no offence lmao) or some other decathlon kid; what’s the real difference between her and them? An intellectual is a person who engages in critical thinking; Betty and the other kids are like that too given the kind of school they attend. Awkward? All kids are like that. Smart? lmaooo same as before, they’re in a school full of smart people. She knew Peter was Spider-Man and that makes her special? She said she wasn’t even 100% sure about it and was surprised when Peter confirmed LMAO Betty was suspecting this in FFH, some of his classmates knew something was going on with him to the point one of them thought he was a male escort. There’s no real difference except that she’s playing Peter’s girlfriend. 

And I happen to think all of this is because fans don’t care about that development or the fact that a black character could be a lead lady with an interesting plot (just like they did with Tessa Thompson in Thor, Natalie Portman, Gwyneth Paltrow, Scarlett Johansson, Elizabeth Olsen, etc). She’s been playing this character for 4 years and Michelle has 0 character development, no storyline, no background. How is that something they could use as a way to bring depth into the character? They can’t, because they didn’t actually care about the things Zendaya mentioned, they wanted her stardom and popularity to boost the movie. The fact that people started shipping her with Tom Holland helped to that reputation and promotion.

how would you rewrite spideychelle in ffh and/or hoco?

I would do exactly this: MCU’s what if’s + Michelle Jones is Nick Fury’s niece. Now, THIS is an interesting storyline, where a teenage girl is Fury’s niece, not exactly an agent but someone with a vast knowledge of espionage. This would explain why she was stalking Peter without taking away the fact that she might have a little crush on him and this line;

MJ: I don’t really have much luck when it comes to getting close to people. Um… so I lied. I wasn’t just watching you ‘cause I thought you were Spider-Man.

would’ve been more interesting with that plot in mind. This with the fact that Fury is probably training her to be an agent or to be the next director of SHIELD in the future, not only this allows her to form a much deeper connection with Peter (who is Spider-Man and struggles with a double life and responsibilities) but it would give her character depth, and a particular insight that the other spider-man girls didn’t have (this would attribute to the ‘not like the other girls’). This could’ve been done without removing the personality traits Zendaya wanted in Michelle.

Fury was involved in the second movie and this would allow their weird contract to keep someone from the avengers or related to them in the movies without having to make Happy or any others participate in them. If they wanted an original character they would’ve given her a better position in it but they didn’t, the real reason they changed her name is because dudebros and extreme comic fans couldn’t stand the thought of having a black girl as a female lead in a Spider-Man movie. They wouldn’t dare to ruin their perfect comic book MJ image, which, btw, Zendaya could’ve pulled off as well. 

As Kevin said;

‘And then I think it leaked that she would be playing MJ and then it became a whole headache for Zendaya to have to navigate. It was never a big, 'Oh my God, it's a big reveal!' There are big reveals in the movie. That's not one of them’ - Kevin.

Why should it be a headache for her? Why didn’t they fight for her character instead of avoiding the real problem? lmaoo this is clearly Marvel having fear of a big backlash that shouldn’t exist in the first place. Her skin color shouldn't be a big thing that she has to deal with or navigate through.

This could even allow her character to have a disney+ series to explore more about her and Fury’s family. I hope that No Way Home gives her character more screen time in terms of her independent development but as I’ve said before, I highly doubt this is possible if NWH is the last standalone spiderman movie in the MCU. 

You have Zendaya wishing to see a black Mary Jane; 

Zendaya would love to see a black Mary Jane, even if she doesn't play her. "People are going to react over anything, but of course there's going to be outrage over that because for some reason some people just aren't ready." 

You see this, along with Laura Harrier thinking that she was afraid Disney wouldn’t allow her to be in the same movie as Zendaya because she believed Disney would never handle two black girls in the same movie and still think there’s nothing wrong with the way they handled things? Only because of the typical opinion: ‘these are high school sweethearts, she’s only there to be a cute character and they already have too much diversity in the cast, it’s not that deep’ lmao 

Btw, read this, it’s worth reading: Michelle Jones: A Disrespect to Zendaya And The Mary Jane Character?