#it really is insane how different of a story umineko would be if you didn't pay attention

[pochapal]

really funny how the third twilight for the reader is the most phoned in part of the whole thing that completely undercuts the occult illusion whereas for the characters it is ironclad evidence of The Ritual

[nyaagolor]

Now that you’ve played through all the episodes, how would you rank them?

Oooo this is tough, in part bc I like all of them a LOT. The designations between a few of them, especially in the middle category, are gonna be kinda arbitrary, but I'll do my best :)

Also this got stupid long so I put it under a readmore! Spoilers abound, as one might expect

8. Dawn of the Golden Witch (Episode 6)

I have some... mixed feelings on this one. I understand what Ryukishi was going for in using chick-Beato and Battler's interactions to parallel Battler with Kinzo and show Kinzo's dynamic with Kuwadorian Beatrice via analogy, but I also think it kinda fumbles a bit. There are points (cookie scene being a big one) where I feel like the characters take a backseat to the themes and the whole narrative feels off. Chapters 5 and 6 are supposed to be a perversion of the original story that Beatrice has lost control over, but there are points during 6 especially where I think it kinda loses itself. The rest of it is great (Erika's VA is a goddamn champion) but the very beginning of this chapter is easily my least favorite part of the series

7. Requiem of the Golden Witch (Episode 7)

I don't really have strong feelings on this episode. It would have been the high point in just about any other VN, but Umineko is so consistently fantastic that Episode 7 didn't really hit me as hard as the others. It did make me wish we got more Kyrie though, even if I know exactly why she wasn't as prominent as many of the others. Kind of insane that my second least-favorite arc is something I would rank like an 8 or 9 out of 10, Umineko is just that goated (get it???)

6. Turn of the Golden Witch (Episode 2)

While I do love watching the worst woman ever conceived have a 48 hour progressive mental breakdown, Alliance hits every point I like about the Rosa / Maria dynamic but does it better. It's still an arc I absolutely adore, so it feels weird to rank it so low, but I think about it a lot less than the other arcs so down here it goes. Shoutout to this arc for making me laugh to the point I could no longer speak not once, but twice. Kanon chuuni jacket and leashed Battler you will always be famous

5. Twilight of the Golden Witch (Episode 8)

I know that ranking episode 8 in the bottom half sounds like sacrilege but this arc had so much Kinzo and while I understand his narrative importance I Do Not Like Him. The fact that Kinzo is in the Golden Land but Kuwadorian Beatrice isn't makes me want to throw bricks at things. Other than that though, absolutely stellar. I bawled at the ending. The next day I thought about it more, misinterpreted it, and cried more, then I thought about it more deeply and talked with friends, really started to understand the core messages, and sobbed even harder. As these things tend to go. This episode ruined my life. Would recommend.

4. Legend of the Golden Witch (Episode 1)

note: 4 and 3 are interchangeable I like them both a lot for different reasons

The first time I read this episode, I thought it was great. The further I got into Umineko, the better it got. Now, with a full understanding of the plot and knowing how this chapter serves as self-reflection through the other (Sayo via Natsuhi) it serves as probably the most raw glimpse into Sayo's mindset we get. This episode ruins me and I'm pretty sure when I inevitably reread it I am going to dissolve into a puddle of goo. Also Natsuhi is there and she's my favorite of the matriarchs so I'm a little bit biased :)

3. Banquet of the Golden Witch (Episode 3)

This is one of the funniest pieces of literature I have ever read in my life. EVA-Beatrice, the entire sob story (that I, like Battler, fell for completely), the two towers fight scene... 10/10 no notes. I don't even have the words for how much I adored this one. I wish I could read it again for the first time.

2. Alliance of the Golden Witch (Episode 4)

Ok so fun fact I thought this arc was kinda boring at first, and was a little miffed I had to constantly go through Ange's little side quests when I just wanted to see Beatrice and Battler again. Fortunately, Ryukishi has a beautiful way of changing my mind very very quickly and the more I think about this Episode the more I love it. It has some of the most powerful emotional moments, a really good rehashing of the themes, and is a lot tighter and more condensed than I gave it credit for. There's a LOT that happens in this chapter, and it's been growing on me a lot-- while it doesn't take the number one spot in terms of my favorites, I do think it's the best written of the 8 episodes. As a bonus it focuses a lot on Maria who is one of the best characters ever and my darling baby angel.

End of the Golden Witch (Episode 5)

This is the platonic ideal of Umineko to me. The layers of metanarrative, the perversion of a formula to reiterate its structure, the use of genre conventions as a dual-use in-universe and metanarrative element, Erika. End of the Golden Witch is when I changed from someone who loved Umineko to someone who was obsessed with Umineko. The ending is one of the most visceral parts of the VN and I will fully admit I cried. There is so much happening in this episode I could talk about it all day. Also Natsuhi is there. Hey girlie <3

[empty-pizza]

thoughts on gideon the ninth chapter twenty-five, and predictions for the ending

now that's a locked room murder! And if you read to the end of this post, I'll actually have a complete guess for who I think is behind it.

first of all, i do not believe that the monster is something that was there all along. no, someone is taking advantage of the monster story that teacher told, i'm sure of it. there was no monster sighting for magnus and abigail's deaths, but after that, teacher told the story, and now someone behind this is enjoying the effect of showing everyone the monster. but in reality, this isn't some insane, crazy thing — it's just a big bone construct any sufficiently cracked necromancer could make. especially one in a facility that's been teaching them how to improve their necromancy. also, the messages in blood — let's flip the chessboard. why would a random monster want to show them that? i can think of a few possibilities, but i think it's more likely that the person behind this is trying to give off an effect that will scare gideon.

rip isaac. he was a good kid, in the end.

now, the proper locked room mystery is what happened to jeannemary. i don't think i know the full details — we might get some more next chapter as we investigate the scene — but we can still start thinking. Speculation incoming:

Option 1: Jeannemary let someone in while Gideon was asleep. For her to do that, it has to be someone Jeannemary has reason to trust, even without waking Gideon up (I can believe that she distrusts Gideon enough to not wake her up, though). There are only three people this could be; Isaac, Magnus, or Abigail. If one of them is secretly alive, then it's probably Abigail, because we did just see Isaac die, and I dunno, Magnus was very nice while we never actually saw a ton of Abigail. Alternatively, someone could have reanimated and been controlling one of their bodies. It could also be someone Jeannemary didn't trust, but did consider not a threat, like Dulcinea.

Option 2: There are more keys. The fact that there was only one key for each room was a guess, not a fact. Any of the people actively working on stuff could be the one who has it.

Option 3: Someone made a duplicate key. Who was in possession of the key before Gideon? Harrow.

Option 4. There is another way into the room. This would be in violation of Knox's commandments, which you totally can do (Zero Escape), or you can specifically avoid doing for the sake of it (Umineko). I'd lean toward the latter for this story but I can't say for sure.

Option 5: Someone shot the spears of bone that killed Jeannemary from underneath or above the room. It was not described in so much detail so honestly this is possible. How would they know Jeannemary's position, though?

That's all I have for now. Unless someone fed Jeannemary small bombs that exploded into bone spikes inside her body. The chef was the culprit all along :)

Now, let's look at this from a different angle and consider suspects:

It has to be a necromancer involved, due to how Jeannemary died. The funny thing about this whole Locked Room situation is that it typically might make Gideon a suspect, but Gideon literally couldn't kill Jeannemary in this way. Or could she? I mean, I know she didn't, but from the perspective of the others, she could have just prepared preexisting bone spikes. Anyway, that's a tangent.

Judith: Even with them having sucked shit, her team just feels too irrelevant. I don't believe they had it in them to pull this off, I don't believe they would have secretly had a key, and I don't believe Jeannemary would have let her in.

Coronabeth: She would have to have been a big time actor to play this whole act of being inferior to Ianthe only to have been planning all of this on her own all along.

Ianthe: Definitely possible, she's one of the biggest unknowns and potential schemers. The problem with her being the culprit is honestly that she's done so little that there aren't really enough clues to go off of.

Isaac: That would be a pretty hard death to fake, imo, and he'd also have to have faked his bestie's death, since I don't think he'd have killed her. Not hi.

Abigail: A very real possibility, assuming that the magic is so strong that she actually could pretend to be dead. That would feel a little cheap, but it's possible to make it work. Like what if she did one of the challenges and learned to resurrect herself? I don't think it's likely but it's possible.

Palamedes: Kind of a similar option to Coronabeth. He has such a strong existing personality that it's hard to imagine him actually having been faking all along. But that doesn't mean he couldn't have been. I mean, that's kind the point of a secret culprit: That they were faking their personality. I trust people too much, so it's very hard for me to consider possibilities where someone was faking how they act. That said, he's also a dweeb.

Dulcinea: Honestly, very possible. There are clues to pick up and tie together. I don't know what shape they'd form, but they're definitely out there. Maybe sending Protesilaus out is part of some plan. I can definitely believe she's pulling some shit.

Silas: Kind of like Ianthe — possible, but he's done so little that I'm not sure what clues are there.

The fact that I haven't noticed enough clues does not necessarily imply that they aren't there. It could very well be revealed to be Ianthe, Silas, or Palamedes, and turn out to have been foreshadowed in ways that I simply missed. But I can only go off of the information I'm aware of.

There's one other thing we have to keep note of, though, before we get to our final suspect. Other alibis. Many, like Ianthe and Silas, have no alibi. But there are some we know were together while Gideon and the teens were busy. Palamedes, Camilla, Dulcinea, and Harrow.

I think that honestly rules out Palamedes. I don't know how he'll get around it. Short of next chapter saying "oh yeah he left for a bit" I don't think he has a way around it. Dulcinea, probably not as well, unless she had a really clever plan, with some remote controlled skeletons, and whatever Protesilaus has been instructed to do.

But Harrow.

Let's talk about Harrow.

Palamedes says something in particular. He doesn't trust Ianthe, and he doesn't trust Silas, but he does trust Harrow. Mysteries are about subversion. When you say something like that, in a mystery, there's a good chance you're gonna get completely clowned for it. I personally consider narrative framing as important as hard evidence, but you do need hard evidence alongside it.

One possibility is that Harrow made a duplicate key out of bone. But to use it, she would have had to have left the group she was with. So it's likely impossible for Harrow to have entered the room Gideon and Jeannemary were in.

BUT WHAT IF-

SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO ENTER IT!

What are two of the skills we explicitly saw Harrow learn? We saw her learn to create crazy, regenerating skele-constructs, and we saw her learn to remotely watch Gideon. Who else could have created the creature that attacked Gideon and the others? If it's not Harrow, we'd have to answer that with someone else having developed or already had the skill. It's more narratively elegant if it was simply done by the character we already know learned it — a chekhov's gun that seemingly hasn't gone off yet! That would also explain why it didn't chase down Gideon, despite her carrying a lanky teenager — Harrow would have wanted to kill the Fourth, but leave Gideon, and had to improvise after Gideon took Jeannemary away.

Secondly, how do you kill Jeannemary while Gideon is in the room? And how do you facilitate this entire thing while Gideon is there? Simple. You watch through Gideon. Again, Harrow learning this power is a chekhov's gun that hasn't been fired yet!

There are lot of ways this could have gone. Harrow could have left a trap in the room and activated it with the knowledge she got through Gideon's eyes. Harrow could have simply used her knowledge of what happened inside of the room to tell a skeleton to go, with a copy of the key, and stab Jeannemary, while Gideon slept. Of course, a big assumption in this is that making a copy of the key is actually something that you can do with bone — it seems simple enough, but the powersets are vague in this story and it might just not be on the table.

Of course, there's a big difference between watching and controlling. Did Harrow even know she could pull this off? Well, it's more likely than you think. She probably didn't plan on doing it this way, because she didn't realize Gideon would have saved Jeannemary. She might have only realized it worked when Gideon fell asleep. Or, there were several prior times Gideon was asleep in the story — Harrow could have secretly practiced it during then.

But there's an even simpler way. If Harrow didn't just look through Gideon's eyes, but controlled Gideon. Why did Gideon fall asleep so suddenly? It could have been induced by Harrow's powers. Even if it was natural, it could have been taken advantage of by Harrow. I have to go check and see if Harrow watching through Gideon was actually something Gideon could perceive, or if only Harrow felt the brunt of it. Honestly, once Harrow mastered that power, why wouldn't she constantly surveil through Gideon's eyes?

Edit: Alternatively, Harrow could have used the other power she learned, soul siphoning, specifically to drain Gideon's energy and make her fall asleep.

How, then, could Harrow have actually killed Jeannemary? It could be something she left behind in the room in case. It might be a stretch that Harrow could actually use her powers through Gideon's body. But she also could have just opened the door with Gideon and let a skeleton in.

Now, there's the question of why. And here's the thing: I could completely believe Harrow would do this. We've seen some development between Harrow and Gideon, as they've gotten closer and more trusting. But that's been personal between them. It hasn't been making Harrow a better person. And the overall stakes of this — what being a Lyctor even means — are not something the book has really made clear. That means it's open to reveal the details are something that would believably make Harrow sacrifice others for her own success.

Harrow is one of the most pragmatic and smart players in the game, from the very start. As the game developed, we saw the choice established, between working communally to win and working solo. There are no rules. You can try to win as a group or individually. Harrow worked with others, but every situation in which she did is a situation where it would have been disadvantageous to not, or where it would have made her look bad and untrustworthy. None of that means she doesn't WANT to win solo, or that she isn't willing to kill for her success. Just that she is smart enough to be careful and secretive about it.

And Gideon is still alive.

If anybody else was trying to kill off their rivals to win at the game, why would they leave Gideon alive? Unless their way of killing Jeannemary was absurdly indirect, or they have a very specific plan that goes beyond just rival-killing, why would they leave Gideon? Simple. Because Harrow cares about Gideon — and knows she doesn't have to try to kill her loyal ally.

And the thing is, we already have a guess at what a specific plan might be. Death to the Fourth House, the words in blood said. Whoever did this wants people to think that this was done out of a specific grudge. But as far as I've noticed, we haven't seen any hints of another group having a grudge against the Fourth House, so far. Rather, I think this is a cover. This is Harrow's attempt to explain why the killings would leave Gideon out, while still removing her rivals.

Harrow, I just noticed, was even the one who suggested that Gideon and the teens go downstairs, while she waits upstairs with Palamedes and Camilla. She knows to pick on the targets she can handle.

Most of all, I think the answer should be whatever causes Gideon the most pain. It's one thing if it's a really hot girl. But it's something else if she has to face the person she doesn't realize she cares about so much, but is slowly starting to trust, is actually the killer.

If I could say it in blue right now, I would (I don't know how to do that on tumblr). Harrow killed Isaac and Jeannemary, and possibly others, in an attempt to remove her rivals, using the skills she learned to create great hulking skeletal constructs and to watch through or even control Gideon.

I am not 100% sure. This theory has many holes, some of which can easily be filled in simple ways, but won't necessarily be. There are valid alternate explanations that could be extremely interesting. But out of everything I've got, this is by far the most interesting and believable option I can see.

If I'm wrong, laugh at me later. If I'm right, send me money in the mail and don't spoil me.

[pluralmedia]

>Umineko

Sorry if I came off as rude in the last "ask". I didn't mean to and realize in hindsight I should have put it more politely and also should have included more info. Sorry about that. It's going to be a bit long, but:

The story of Umineko is coated in fantasy but is actually based in reality and rationality. The story itself and the characters are obviously fictional, but it is made in such a way that everything can be explained rationally (even completely exaggerated fantasy events, like "The 7 Sisters of Purgatory" slicing bullets in half or prison bars being cut by a magical sword, are given a rational explanation). The story pretty much screams at you to tear off the "fantasy coating" and solve it rationally (it's meant to be treated as detective fiction) lol and that's why external supernatural entities and magic do not exist; they are supernatural, and the supernatural does not exist in real life from a scientific / rational point of view (I mean no disrespect to spiritual people). So everything e.g. the 7 Sisters of Purgatory do can and is explained rationally and is often done in a way such that you don't realize it's the answer to X supernatural event until much later on as ryukishi07 is amazing at flaunting clues in your face without you noticing lol.

Ange's "imaginary friends" (such as the 7 Sisters of Purgatory) are autonomous and bound to her like normal headmates are (i.e. they can't just go to the other side of the planet if they want to). What she is really doing when summoning them is like creating or "waking up" tulpas you haven't seen in a while (i.e. they are dormant when not "present"). The only real difference between Ange and Maria here is that Maria creates (Sakutarou) and Ange "copies" the headmates from reading Maria's diary. We even see at one point how Ange "forces" them into existence like you would a tulpa. It's very interesting to see after learning about tulpamancy (check lparchive Umineko episode 4 "Ange and Maria II" below the moon CG. The amount of tulpamancy is insane lol).

But Umineko is a pretty deep rabbit hole. Unlike another anon said here, most people that have read the Umineko manga probably don't consider Yasuda Sayo to have DID (and considers her to have fewer headmates than the anon claims) due to what happens in the manga adaptation of the story (the manga is a canon elaboration of the source material), but I digress as the important thing here is whether or not someone is plural, not the type of system they are or how many headmates they have. It's an extremely complex story with a lot of "world layers" so you have to read Umineko to understand everything (with or without plural characters, I highly recommend it). It also involves quite a bit of thinking and you are also, in a sense, reading more than one story at the same time.

TL;DR: it will take a very long time to find everything, but the story implicitly and explicitly tells you many times in many ways that they are not external entities. I will admit it's probably difficult to prove using only wiki / fandom websites, but I think the lparchive I mentioned above is proof that she is plural and using tulpamancy. If it means anything, probably any Umineko fan agrees the 7 Sisters of Purgatory are objectively speaking not external entities but only alive in Ange's mind.

Sorry for the wall of text. Let me know if I missed or misunderstood something and / or if I came off as rude again. /g

Apology accepted. The rude part was the assuming we were being exclusionary and not just unable to find something, not anything else.

And that sounds pretty interesting for a fantasy concept, and also thank you for that source! It was extremely helpful in determining things, much moreso than the wikis!

Ange has been moved up, thanks!

[usagi-chan95]

So a few days ago I was on TV tropic looking up a few shows I like and of course I'm a huge Umineko Fan so I looked up the character and everybody who knows me just a little bit now I said I ship this one character with Black Hat. So why not list all hee traits that he would probably like about her. In the end I think the two would get along with each other.

Affably Evil: She is completely indifferent towards the suffering of everybody else, but she sure is polite.

All-Powerful Bystander: She has more than enough power to solve any problem in the setting or destroy everything in the blink of an eye if she wanted to. Fortunately, Featherine prefers to remain a spectator for the most part while she lets Bernkastel cause all the trouble she wants. The one time she does intervene in the plot during her "fight" with Lambdadelta we see that everything would have been lost with Featherine as an active enemy.

Always Someone Better: Bernkastel is regarded as the strongest Witch, but even she knows not to get on Featherine's bad side. Even Lambdadelta, who was more than holding her own against Bernkastel earlier, is terrified at the thought of having Featherine as an opponent. It makes sense when you realize Featherine is not just a Witch, but a Creator as well. She may just be a Witch in name only.

Ambiguously Evil: Both Bern and Lambda describe her as extremely nasty, and indeed she doesn't think much of humans, but she doesn't really have any Kick the Dog moments, and in the end she gives up on publicly revealing the contents of Eva's diary, thus preserving the catbox as Battler and Beato wished.

Curb-Stomp Battle: Delivers one to Lambdadelta in Episode 8. Special mention to the fact that Featherine didn't even have fight at all; she simply wrote down "I utterly defeated Lambdadelta and sliced her into pieces". And then poof, Lambda is completely dismembered.

The Dreaded: Anyone that can inspire genuine fear from Lambdadelta and even Bernkastel is definitely not to be trifled with.

Evil Mentor: Implied to have been Bernkastel's in the ???? of EP6.

The Fog of Ages: She has lived for so long that she needs a special horseshoe-shaped device around her head to keep her memories and avoid insanity.

God Is Evil: Averted, though just barely. She's not so much evil as she is uncaring of how she achieves her goals... though given the things she does do in the story (and apparently before it), you'd be forgiven for thinking it was played straight.

Greater-Scope Villain: Featherine is said to be a Witch thousands of times more powerful and evil than Bernkastel could ever be, but she never becomes a direct villain to the story and remains a bystander for the most part. However, she is indirectly responsible for all the problems from EP7 afterwards as she was the one who gave Bernkastel the power to keep messing with the game board because she wanted Bernkastel to rip the game apart for her and give her the answers to the mystery.

Insult Backfire: When Lambda pulls a You Monster! on her, she takes it as a compliment, which really makes you wonder what amount of chaos she caused in her distant past. It's fully possible that, being Bernkastel's mentor, she possess a trolling capacity far surpassing her miko Bern's... and considering Bern is the most malicious character in the story, that is a scary thought.

It Amused Me: The main reason she doesn't fit into God Is Evil instead. Physical Godliness and lack of a Freudian Excuse notwithstanding, she's still a Witch at heart and will do whatever it takes to keep herself entertained.

Lack of Empathy: Definitely, but better off than Bernkastel at least. Like any other Witch, Featherine sees human lives as nothing but means of entertainment, but she can show her respect to her opponents when it's due and at least now, doesn't seek to actively make others miserable for amusement's sake.

Manipulative Bitch: In the past, she's used Bernkastel as her monkey wrench to unlock the mysteries of worlds and game boards alike, whether Bern wanted to do it or not. Worse yet, Bern was aware she was being used but couldn't do anything about it because Featherine was just that good. This does in fact happen in the story, where she makes Bern the Game Master to crack the mystery of Rokkenjima when the rest of the cast loses interest in it, using Bern's desire for revenge against the family as her motivation.

Offstage Villainy: Bernkastel, the cruelest example of a witch so far seen, finds her a hundred times more horrific than she could ever be. The evidence is suggested at, but never concretely shown. Within the series, Featherine never does anything nearly as horrible as the other witches. Of course, Bernkastel is no doubt very biased, seeing as how she came into existence because of Featherine's callousness and indifference. She probably has room to exaggerate.

The Older Immortal: By far the oldest witch in the series.

The Omnipotent: Without a doubt, the most powerful character in the setting. She's perfectly capable of pausing the plot when she wants a scene to play out a different way.

Outside-Context Problem: Needless to say Featherine is in a whole other league compared to the other witches Battler deals with in the story, which is really saying something. A single wave of her hand to make Bernkastel the Game Master is all she needed to do turn Battler's happy ending into a non-ending.

Physical God: One of the Creators described in Episode 4's TIPS.

The definitive example is that she's ultimately the one responsible for bringing Bernkastel as we know herinto existence. It's heavily implied that she was the one who abandoned Bern as a piece in the Unwinnable game (that she ended up winning anyway), and while it's never explained how she pieced together/recruited all the physically and emotionally destroyed Rika Furudes, it's made clear in the narration that Featherine was the one who taught what would eventually become her miko and the Cruelest Witch. And why? Because she was bored and wanted someone to help stave off future boredom.It's not so much that she meant harm by creating Bern, more that she doesn't care as long as she is entertained.

If you want a more "literal" example, she can use her power to rewrite the script of reality itself and have people do as she dictates. And you would never even know she's doing it.

Really 700 Years Old: She is said to be older than Bernkastel and Lambdadelta, both who are said to be centuries old. By the way it's alluded, Featherine might as well be a Time Abyss.

Retired Monster: Given what Bernkastel and Lambadelta say about (and to) her, this is heavily implied. Featherine herself personally thinks she's much worse.

Rewriting Reality: Her power as a Witch/Creator and as an Author Avatar. Featherine can literally rewrite the script of reality itself to make events go as however she likes. She doesn't even need to write how things go, she only needs to write the result.

Story-Breaker Power:

Literally. When Lambdadelta tries to attack her with magic, Featherine just says that she doesn't like the development of the story, stops time and begins editing the script of the story herself. Not willing to write a fight scene at the moment, she starts from the end of the fight where she dictates Lambdadelta was smashed into a bookshelf and had all her limbs severed. She doesn't even think about how she accomplished such a brutal attack, deciding to "figure it out later". When Featherine starts time again, Lambdadelta ends up just as she wrote, with "what the fuck just happened" being her last conscious thoughts before dying.

She couldn't comprehend the 'something' that Featherine had killed her with. However, that was only natural. After all, Featherine herself hadn't decided what the 'something' was. However, Lambdadelta did understand one thing. She was already dead.

You Cannot Grasp the True Form: The memory device around her head also preserves her form. At one point in the past it got damaged, abruptly changing her personality and appearance. Her witch power also allows her to weaponize this. Refer to the spoiler in Story-Breaker Power above.