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madlori · 8 months ago

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I'm asking this to you because you're the only person I know who's been around fandoms for so long — do you find this shipping-situation weird? I've been in many fandoms but I've never really seen this insistence on there being only one acceptable ship for a character and encouraging the idea that anything other than the norm is almost sacrilegious. Almost every big fandom over the years have had multiple conflicting pairings, take for example, Marvel. Even works of media that have a canon romantic pairing have had fans who ship others with the leads (that was what shipping was tbh) and no one has ever shown up to their doorsteps with pitchforks in hand, at least not that I'm aware of. So I guess I'd really like your opinion on why you think this is happening now? Have things always been this way, just not in plain sight? Is this just the new fandom culture that is developing now with the influx of younger people? Or is this fandom an aberration where a group of people are so used to being the majority that they simply aren't taking well to things not going their way?

I've been thinking about this today, and I'm still not sure what I think.

I've been in fandoms with a hugely dominant ship before. I've been in fandoms that had ship wars. I've been in fandoms with a lot of peacefully co-existing ships. I'm not sure this fandom is really all that different. To answer your first question, no, I don't find it all that weird. In fact I sort of expected it.

Let me tell you a story about the Brokeback Mountain fandom, which managed to have a ship war despite having really only one ship, the canon ship. So BBM fic fell into several broad categories, the biggest of which were fix-the-ending/canon divergence fics and the straight-up AU fics (I wrote one of each, lol). Post-canon fics weren't as common, because you had to deal with one half of the canon pairing being...well, dead.

There was a post-canon fic that gained a lot of fans...and when I say "fic" that's really an understatement. It was a SAGA, and I don't use that term lightly. It was a series of like...6 or 7 epic 100K+ word fics and it was over a million words total. The author would put out more than one 5K chapters per DAY. I'm still in awe of this woman's output. But it was the content that created the issue.

(Brief recap for those who have not seen BBM - two ranch hands in the 1960s, Ennis (Heath Ledger) and Jack (Jake Gyllenhaal) spend a season herding sheep together, have sex, form a bond, then separate to go about their expected hetero lives but get together for fishing trips every year or so to have sex and spend time together. Jack wants more, Ennis is terrified. Both marry and have families. Eventually Jack dies in what is implied to be a gay-bashing but who knows, and Ennis makes his peace with the love he'd felt for him)

The saga picked up a couple of years after the film's events. Ennis decides to tentatively explore what being queer means, goes to Laramie, finds a gay bar, and very cautiously enters. Through a Series of Events he gets mixed up in an assault there and befriends a local sheriff's deputy, who is also gay. They begin a relationship.

Now, this series was COMPLEX. A huge cast of characters, a long and thorough evolution of this relationship, a lot of angst over Jack's memory, and it really worked for a LOT of readers. The new love interest she created was a really great character.

For others...it did not work and they hated it.

The animosity between fans who loved this saga and those that did not grew pretty heated. This was like '05 so there was no twitter or tumblr, this was all on LJ and dedicated fandom forums (some of which banned discussion of this fic for this reason), but there was doxxing and namecalling and real vitriol.

I guess my point in all this is that when there's strong feelings, some fans will find a way to be horrible to each other.

I was in the Sherlock fandom, another fandom 98% dominated by one ship. There were other ships, but somehow they seemed to co-exist mostly peacefully barring some snide remarks and rude comments (I could be wrong about this, if you asked someone who shipped a non-Johnlock ship they might have a different answer). No, the insanity in the Sherlock fandom was not ship-war-related.

I was also in the Criminal Minds fandom, which has a whole bunch of disparate ships and no ship wars that I can recall.

Then there are other fandoms, like Avatar, with TERRIBLE ship wars that are still going on.

I don't think the situation in 9-1-1 is as unique or different from other fandom wanks as has sometimes been asserted. I think terrible fandom wars are sort of inevitable, whether they're ship related or not. But for what it's worth, here are some of my thoughts on what's going on here.

A loooooong time (5.5 seasons) with one very dominant non-canonical queer ship. No other ship really ever approached the level of saturation or devotion of Buddie.

A pervasive belief that this ship might possibly become canon. That's a feature a lot of other ships do not have.

A lack of intense devotion to any of the other love interests. BuckTaylor was never a challenger to Buddie. Neither was Eddie and Shannon, or anybody else. It's hard to fight when there's no worthy challenger.

But now? BuckTommy is not only canon, but it has a lot of fans. It's a threat. And it's not only a threat in a feelings kind of way (as in, people like a thing that is not the thing I like and it makes me upset) but there's a perception that it's an ACTUAL threat, as in if people like this ship and promote it, it could cause it to become a permanent relationship (the degree to which fan response actually affects how the show unfolds is...debatable).

I do not personally think this is the case, but some fans strongly believe that Buddie could still happen if it weren't for BuckTommy. So if you're still wanting Buddie and believe it will or could happen, the existence of an alternate love interest represents a direct obstacle to that happening. That's a heck of an incentive to hate that competing ship. I get it.

That...might be a somewhat unique situation. There's a fight now because there's a challenger who might actually stand a chance.

This goes along with what we saw in the immediate aftermath of 7x04. I read someone else say (apologies, I don't know who it was, feel free to @ me if it was you and I'll credit you) that the early post-7x04 enthusiasm and acceptance of Tommy reflected the belief that he was temporary. A lot of folks thought it was just a way for Buck to get with Eddie, like, very soon after that. But the more time went by, the clearer it became that this was not the plan or the intention. So the mood soured for those who were still pulling for Buddie.

Other fandoms I've been in with a hugely dominant ship...Sherlock and X-Files are the two that spring immediately to mind...there was never a challenger with any legs. X-Files fandom wank was between the ship and the...lack of ship, shall we say. But a concrete, tangible "opponent" makes a fight so much more visceral, doesn't it?

I do think there's been a fandom shift towards needing ships to be canon that I don't really get, but it's there. There's been a lot written about fandom culture in the last ten years, the breakdown of boundaries between fans and creators, the access to those creators, a sense of ownership/entitlement, purity culture, obsession with shipping "correctly" (which leads into wanting things to be canon for the validation)...these are all newish features. So pile that on top of 9-1-1 having a longtime single ship that's legitimately threatened for the first time in its existence by a competing canon ship and it's kind of a powderkeg.

No wonder it's caught on fire.

#9-1-1 #9-1-1 meta #9-1-1 shipping #ship wars #bucktommy #fandom wank

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3-why-am-i-here-3 · 4 months ago

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Venting about the discourse regarding Gwen and her relationship to Miles in this fandom, not because I think it will do any good, but because i just want to say it.

What happened between Miles and Gwen in ATSV and the consequential fallout opened the door for some very interesting discourse. Discussions can be had about the events leading up to Gwen's blunders, whether she can earn forgiveness, and how these things will affect Mile's relationship with her, as well as how these types of situations play out in real relationships. These discussions have been happening to an extent, but not in a way that is conducive to good discourse.

What often keeps people from healthy discussion of these topics is the many different interpretations of Gwen; specifically the very polarized opinions people have of her. Some believe what she has done should never be forgiven, while others believe she has done nothing wrong to begin with.

I fall somewhere in the middle; I like Gwen, and I hope she is redeemed in the next movie, but I also acknowledge that she does need redemption. Obviously, you can like Gwen; you can also dislike her, but there is nothing wrong with either. What I see a lot of, though, are people who like or dislike her to the point of mischaracterization.

I believe there is room for interpretation of her character, but there does come a point where it becomes illogical. For example, some people who dislike Gwen will make her out to be completely evil, and the sole reason for every bad thing that happened to Miles. Others who do like her will paint her as a martyr and a saint. Neither are true. Gwen is a teenage girl who was caught between a rock and a hard place. She messed up and needs to work to earn her forgiveness. Both these statements are true, but depending on which side of the debate people fall on, they will only believe one or the other.

People don't (or won't) seem to understand that Gwen (and her situation) were nuanced. It is not black or white, but some shade of grey. And maybe you're reading this and thinking, "duh," but even if many people know this, they don't act like it. I'm not saying you can't criticize or praise Gwen, but I see people get so caught up in either blasting or defending her that it destroys any opportunity for an actual good discussion. I think Gwen's character is complex, and that's why I like her so much. I love it when characters accidently pave the road to hell with the best intentions, and I love seeing discourse about what they did wrong and what they did right. All this fandom does, however, is wage wars over whether Gwen is a demon or an angel at the expense of her character and Miles', for that matter.

I also see so many people engaging with content that would be better ignored. I can't stress this enough: if there is a user saying something that you don't like and it's not harmful to you or anyone else, then unless you intend to respectfully give your opinion in a way that's conducive to productive converstaion, DO NOT ENGAGE! Block them, report them, whatever, just don't interact. I see so many people in the comments of posts that they simply disagree with being disrespectful to the poster or anyone who agrees with them. What's even more infuriating is when the post is obvious rage bait. I've seen so many rage bait posts about Gwen trying to ignite either side of the debate over her character and they always get what they want: a bunch of people arguing in the replies.

It's such a shame because this could have produced some great conversations, but people have instead faught over it. It all comes down to a lack of nuanced opinions of a nuanced character, in my opinion. I'm hoping BTSV will calm people down and maybe then there will be room for more respectful conversation, but right now? It's a war zone and I want no part of it.

TL:DR: People who don't understand nuance and only deal in absolutes have made this fandom a lot less fun.

#spider verse #gwen stacy #ghostflower #gwiles #spiderverse #atsv #across the spider verse #spider man across the spider verse

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blackcat419 · 7 months ago

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Rewriting HotD: Plot breakdown of Fire and Blood the Dance of the Dragons

Part 1: 101 A.C. To 129 A.C.

The following is an in depth plot breakdown of F&B where character moments, plot beats, difference in sources, and missing details will all be analyzed and possible solutions proposed. The timeline will start in 101 A.C. with the first great council as where the seeds of the dance were thoroughly sowed and watered to the death of Jaehaera in 133 A.C.

This is the first part of my rewriting HotD series. The next part will talk more about character arcs and expanding on them using the enneagram as a jumping off point.

Page numbers will be cited from my copy of fire and blood the 2022 Trade Paperback Tie-in Edition.

Legend

Bold for the year

Italic for character moments

Blue for Orwyle’s account

Purple for Munkun’s A True Telling

Green for Septon Eustace’s The Reign of King Viserys

Red for Mushroom’s The Testimony of Mushroom

Orange for rumors that have no source

Pink for minor sources where their credibility and bias will be discussed when they come up

(Parenthesis) will be used when I deem it necessary to comment on the story either about the plot or how the fandom views the story.

[brackets] will be used for when I want to add real world historical context.

Where Gyldayn does not identify which source he is using or which sources disagree with eachother, it will be assumed that all sources agree with each other.

Biases of sources

While each source is biased towards one claimant over another, this is too simple of an understanding of these sources. Each source is pushing their own understanding of the world, either implicitly or not.

Orwyle wrote his account after being arrested by Cregan Stark and thrown into the black cells. He served as Grand Maester after the death of Mellos in 217, was thrown in the black cells when Rhaneyra took KL in 130, released by Ser Perkin later that year, he was then imprisoned again in 131 by Cregan where he wrote his accounts, he escaped and was re-imprisoned and continued writing his account, and he was later executed in 133. His bias is based in trying to save his own life by appealing to Cregan and trying to show he wasn’t a traitor. So while biased towards Rhaenyra, he’s biased towards making himself look as best as possible with motivations of saving his own life. He’s a primary source from his stationing as Grand Maester till Rhaenyra takes Kings landing and from when Rhaenyra flees Kings Landing and he’s re-imprisoned by Cregan. While Orwyle is imprisoned, he can only be a second hand source at best.

Munkun bases his work on the writings of Orwyle and takes up the position of Grand Maester in 131 when Cregan removed Orwyle. Munkun uses a lot of Orwyle’s sources but because Orwyle is currently writing his own account, I believe Munkun is using his Maester notes which could be less biased as Orwyle wasn’t writing them to help save his own life. Munkun also had access to Orwyle to talk about his recollection of the war. Munkun is a second hand source for anything happening before 131 and only a first hand source for Kingslanding after 131.

Eustace wrote his work after the war. He served as septon to the red keep from Viserys’ death until Aegon III’s reign and his dismissal by Unwin Peake. The Sept has been in conflict recently with the Targaryens leading to the dissolution of the faith militant and the implementation of Targaryens exceptionalism doctrine. Eustace can be seen as biased against the Targaryens in general because of this conflict. Eustace also shies away from salacious accounts, he doesn’t like Rhaenyra, and thinks Northmen are savage. He is a first hand source for much of what happens in the red keep.

Mushroom’s account was written down by an unknown author and covers Mushroom’s time as a fool for King Viserys and later Princess Rhaenyra. Mushroom was in Kings Landing as fool for King Viserys until 113 when he left with Rhaenyra for dragon stone, he returns in 126 with Rhaenyra to Kings Landing but leaves before Viserys’ death in 129, he returns in 130 when Rhaenyra takes Kings Landing, he remains in Kings Landing when Rhaenyra flees, he remains in Kingslanding until Manfryd Mooton travels to Braavos to escape the gloom of the red keep. Mushroom is first and foremost an entertainer and tells his story to entertain instead of inform. He is biased towards Rhaenyra as her fool but he is more biased towards a fun and salacious story. He’s a first hand source for Kingslanding until 113, a bit after 126, and after 130 till he leaves for Braavos. In the times in between he’s a firsthand source for Dragonstone and at best a second hand source for Kings landing.

101 A.C. The First Great Council

Otto arrives at Kings Landing with his wife and children, Alicent becomes the constant companion of King Jaehaerys, and Jaehaerys mistakes her for his daughter Seara pg. 351

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Alicent: Alicent is described caring for the king like a personal care assistant would do in modern times.

(The word ‘precocious’ is used to describe 15 year old Alicent here and many have taken it to mean she was sexually developed and sleeping with Jaehaerys. I disagree as precocious means quickly developing but is not exclusive to sexual development. Because it’s quickly followed by descriptions of Alicent assisting Jaehaerys as a live in care person, I believe this is meant to show that Alicent is more mature mentally and is taking on the caretaker role earlier than she is expected to.)

103 A.C. The king is dead, long live the king

Jaehaerys dies while Alicent reads Barth’s ‘Unnatural History’, his body is burned and entered on Dragonstone, and women reportedly tore their garments in Dorne. [the act of tearing ones garments from their body was seen as a way to mourn in ancient times. Cleopatra reportedly rendered her garments when she learned that Anthony attempted suicide.] pg. 351-2

Viserys ascends the throne, Aemma has already suffered multiple miscarriages and lost a boy shortly after birth, Rhaenyra is 6. Pg. 352

The practice of placing eggs in cradles is picked back up around this time and many dragons are hatching in the dragon pit. Pg. 352

Criston first comes to notice at the melee at Maidenpool where he defeated Daemon, gave Rhaenyra the laurel and asked for her favor, and unhorsed the cargyll twins in the joust. pg 358-9

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Viserys: Described as generous, amiable nature, and well loved by lords and smallfolks. Pg 352

Viserys & Aemma: host lots of feasts and tourneys and lavish gold, offices, and honors on their favorites. Pg 354

Otto: described as proud, brusque (curt), and haughty. The longer he served the more power he gained. Pg 354

Daemon: Ambitious, impetuous, moody, charming, hot-tempered, bored by Rhae Royce, the Vale, and governing. Pg 354

Rhaenyra: precocious, bright, bold, and beautiful. Pg 354

(Precocious is also used to describe Rhaenyra here and I believe it’s meant to draw a parallel between our two leads. Both are smarter than their years)

104 A.C. Rhaenyra Takes Flight

Rhaenyra: becomes a dragon rider at age 7. Syrax is a claimed dragon, not a cradle egg. She’s bold and dragon-riding at a very early age. Pg 354

105 A.C. Heir for a day

Viserys announces that Aemma is pregnant again. She dies giving birth to a son named Baelon who dies shortly after Pg 358-9

Criston Cole is appointed to the kingsguard at age 23 pg 358

Lyonel Strong is invited by Viserys to Kings landing and brings his 4 kids, his two daughters become Rhaenyra's hand maidens, Harwins joins the gold cloaks, and Larys joins the king's confessors. Pg 359

Observed but by who? Daemon is seen saying 'Heir for a day' while drunk in the street of Silk. The book gives us two sources for the rumon, the sex worker sitting on Daemon's lap or one of his drinking buddies. Why would his friend or someone he pays turn on him? Pg 359-60

Viserys names Rhaenyra heir and held a lavish ceremony for lords to swear fealty pg 360

Daemon leaves Kingslanding with Mysaria for Dragonstone and gets her pregnant and presents her with a dragon egg. pg 360

Viserys tells Daemon to send Mysaria away and return to Rhae Royce. Daemon does so, Mysaria returns to Lys and loses the child.

Viserys is suggested to remarry. Runciter suggests Laena Velaryon who is 12. Viserys decides to marry Alicent who is now 18. Pg 361

Rumors at Court suggest that Otto is moving above his station and planned for Alicent to marry Viserys. The rumors also question Alicent's virginity and wonder if she slept with him before Aemma died. Again, who is spreading these rumors? Unlike with Daemon, we don't even get a vague mention at who to judge them better. pg 361

Mushroom restates the rumors above along with Alicent doing 'more than just reading' for Jaehaerys. I again do not believe these rumors as they seem to come up only when Otto and Alicent are advancing politically. pg 361

Daemon and Corlys are both upset at the news of Viserys marrying Alicent. Pg 361

Laena is betrothed to the sea lord of Braavos' son. pg 375

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Viserys: makes Rhaenyra his cupbearer at age 8 and is not seen without her after. He drinks a lot and Rhaenyra is there to serve him wine. Pg 354. Refuses to name Daemon heir but forgives any of his offense. Pg 355 gets mad enough at Daemon and commands him which he rarely does. pg 360 Viserys is also uncharacteristically firm when choosing to marry Alicent and not 'for reasons of state' (perhaps after Viserys lost his wife, son, and his brother left Kings Landing, he wanted someone who would take care of him like Alicent did Jaehaerys. I do not think they were sleeping together before Aemma's death.) Pg 361.

Daemon: Takes the lead of the gold cloaks and gives them better armor, made the city more orderly, and had an 'eye for an eye' style of punishment. Takes an interest in Mysaria. Wants to be named heir but isn't. Pg 355 Speaks of his brother in disdain after being commanded to leave dragonstone. Pg 360.

Rhaenyra: is smitten with Criston (she is 9 at this time so childhood crush) and has him named her personal protector.

Criston: (we don't have much written on his character, just how others react to him. The ladies are smitten and daemon hates him but Cole isn't described like how the other characters are with a list of traits.) pg 359

Lyonel: mistaken for a brute and dumb but just a large, silent, and very smart man. Pg 359

Laena: Fiery, bold, adventurous. Claimed Vhagar at 12 or younger which is very bold and brave. Pg 360-1. The Maester of High Tide says that Laena is more interested in dragon riding than in boys. Pg 361.

Unknown Years between 103-105 A.C.

Eustace, Mushroom, and Otto's letter to his brother tells us that Otto greatly disliked Daemon. Otto's own writings on his feelings about Daemon should be believed as its his own testimony backed up by other sources. But do take his claim that Daemon would be 'a second Maegor the Cruel' with a pinch of salt. Pg 358

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Otto: hates Daemon and uses his influence as hand to remove him from each position Viserys gives him. Pg 358

Daemon & Rhaenyra: Rhaenyra is fond of Daemon and he brings her gifts when he crosses the narrow sea. Pg 355

Viserys: Doesn't try to claim a dragon (Viserys is the first Targaryen who's dragon died before him and had the opportunity to claim a dragon, but never did) Pg 355. Hates conflict and tries to make peace between Otto and Daemon (we'll see him using this tactic again soon) pg 358.

106 A.C. The Marriage and War begin

Viserys marries Alicent and Velaryons are absent. Pg 361-2

Daemon meets with Corlys and they plan to invade the stepstones and take them from the Triarchy. Pg 362.

Viserys supports Daemon by giving gold for the war. Pg 364

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Alicent: calls Rhaenyra 'daughter' at her wedding. Filling that caregiver role?

Corlys: When slighted, he takes to war to assert his power.

Daemon: When pushed away from his brother, he seeks power through war.

Viserys: tries to fix tensions between him and Daemon by using his power as king to support him. Viserys is reported to say 'let daemon play at war, its keeps him out of trouble' pg 364

107 A.C. Aegon

Aegon is born. pg 365

108 A.C. Crab Ate

Daemon defeats Craghas Crabfeeder and cuts off his head with Darksister. Pg 363

Cregan Stark is born ph 416

109 A.C. King of the stepstones

Daemon and Corlys control all but 2 of the Stepstones islands. Pg 364

Helaena is born. pg 365

Otto is removed as Hand after pushing for Aegon to be made heir and Lyonel Strong takes his place Pg 365

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Daemon: Declares himself king of the stepstones. Pg 364

Corlys: Places the stepstone crown on Daemon's head. Pg 634

110 A.C. War returns

The Triarchy and Dorne unite to continue fighting in the stepstones. Pg 364

Aemond is born half the size of Aegon but twice as fierce Pg 365

Unknown Years between 106 A.C. - 110 A.C.

Lords and knights seek Rhaenyra's favor but shes only interested in Criston Cole.

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Alicent: Alicent says at court 'Ser criston protects the princess from her enemies but who protects the princess from ser criston?' Pg 365. no longer using 'daughter' and may be faining concern or actual concern for the princess's virtue around Criston.

Viserys: Keeps Rhaenyra as heir but doesn't argue why when questioned, just states as fact. Interesting level of stubbornness pg 365. Hates the conflict between his wife and daughter but doesn't address the root of the problem and just uses his ability as king to keep the balance through parties and gifts. Pg 365

111 A.C. The second quarrel

Visery's and Alicent's 5th wedding anniversary and Alicent and Rhaenyra wear their signature dresses to assert their sides.

The Blacks have a better tourney performance with Criston as Rhaenyra's champion. He unhorses Alicent's unknown champion, two cousins, and her younger brother Gwayne. Pg 366 (this perhaps shows that Rhaenyra is in a better position than Alicent?)

Daemon rides in the tourney but hasn't declared for a side. Pg 366

Daemon remains in Kingslanding for half a year.

Daemon returned to his old goldcloak friends in the street of silk and treated Alicent with respect but no love. He spends a lot of time with Rhaenyra, gives her gifts, and mocks the greens. pg 367

Grand Maester Runciter says Daemon and Viserys quarrled again and Daemon leaves for the step stones again. pg 367

Eustace says Daemon seduced Rhaenyra and took her virginity. The two were discovered by Ser Arryk and brought to Viserys. Rhaenyra begs to marry Daemon but Viserys denies it and confines Rhaenyra to her room and sends Daemon away. Pg 367-8

Mushroom says Rhaenyra wanted Criston so Daemon tutored her with kissing lessons, touching men for pleasure, but they did not have sex. Criston was horrified and spurned Rhaneyra. The story comes out in part thanks to mushroom. Daemon tells Viserys to let him marry Rhaenyra and Viserys tells Daemon to leave Pg 368-9.

Daemon leaves for the stepstones pg 369

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Rhaenyra: the act of wearing 'the dramatic red and black dress' is Rhaenyra's first step into the feud with Alicent. She is 14. following Eustace and Mushroom's account, we get the idea that Rhaenyra is now exploring sexually and perhaps looking for love in either Daemon or Criston who are both denied to her pg 369

Daemon: gives his crown over to Viserys, perhaps showing that family is more important to Daemon than power. Pg 367 Eustace and Mushroom both agree that Daemon was explicitly active with Rhaenyra and its seems in both cases was doing to to grasp at power. pg 369

112 A.C. Rhaenyra's Suitors

Grand Maester Runciter dies and is replaced by Mellos. Pg 369

Lord Commander Ser Harrold Westerling dies and is replaced by Criston Cole. Pg 369

Rhaenyra visits the Trident and the sons of lord blackwood and bracken fight over her in a duel, a younger son of house Frey asks her to marry him, the Lannister twins quarrel over her. pg 369 (while not stated, its pretty clear that Rhaenyra is on tour looking for a husband)

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Viserys: declines to wed Rhaenyra to Aegon stating 'The boy is Alicent's own blood... She wants him on the throne.' interesting separation of himself from his son and seeing Alicent wanting her son to be king as a bad thing. Again, Viserys declines to fix the root problem.

113 A.C. Betrothal of Fire and Sea

Rhaenyra is betrothed to Laenor and concerns about him being gay are dismissed. pg 370

Rhaenyra refuses to marry Laenor, also refers to Alicent's kids as half brothers. Only relents when Viserys threatens to disinherit her. pg 370.

Eustace says that Criston asks Rhaenyra to run away with him and Rhaenyra declines. Pg 370-1 (I believe Eustace more as its in line with Rhaenyra choosing power over personal happiness or freedom)

Mushroom says Rhaenyra asked Criston to take her virginity and Criston refuses 'even when Rhaneyra used the arts she had learned from Daemon' Pg 371 (so simple sexy pose or blowjob? probably just sexy pose). Rhaenyra then has sex with Harwin Strong and Mushroom claims to have found them together the next morning. pg 371

Rhaenyra leaves for Driftmark with the strong sisters, mushroom, and Harwin as her new champion.

Dalton Greyjoy is born (world of ice and fire)

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Rhaenyra:Rhaenyra chooses power over her own happiness by agreeing to wed Laenor to keep her spot as heir. Eustace says that Rhaenyra begs for Viserys' forgiveness after he threatens to disinherit her while mushroom says she spits in his face. Pg 370 Eustace and Mushroom dispute how much she was willing to grovel for her father's forgiveness.

Viserys: uncharacteristically strict and threatens to disinherit Rhaenyra if she doesn't marry Laenor. Perhaps he wants everything to go the way he imagines it and does not want people upsetting his ideas for the future?

Criston: turns from being loyal to Rhaenyra to loathing her. Pg 371 (was this because Rhaenyra tried to seduce him or scorned him?)

114 A.C. Marriage of Fire and Sea

Rhaenyra and Laenor are married. She's 17 and he's 20. pg 372

Rhaenyra gives Harwin her favor and Laenor gives Jeoffrey Lonmouth his favor. Pg 372 (Showing that these two pairs are both lovers now). Criston takes Alicent's favor after being denied Rhaenyra's Pg 372 (was Criston still holding out hope for Rhaenyra?)

Criston wins the tourney, breaking Harwin's collar bone and putting Jeoffrey in a coma where he dies 6 days later. Pg 372

The animosity between Rhaenyra and Alicent was noted by envoys in letters to Pentos, Braavos, and Old Volantis Pg 372

Laenor returns to driftmark while Rhaenyra remains in Kingslanding. pg 372

Eustace says Rhaenyra and Laenor only shared a bed a dozen times (12) and Mushroom adds that Qarl Correy joined them as well and Rhaenyra would either watch them or seek out Harwin. pg 373

Rhaenyra's pregnancy is announced and Jacaerys is born a 'large strapping lad, with brown hair, brown eyes, and a pug nose' pg 374

Alicent gives birth to Daeron who is noted as traditional Targaryen coloring (pale hair and purple eyes) pg 374

Viserys orders Jace and Daeron share the same wet nurse. pg 374

Addam of Hull is born pg 443

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Laenor: was only knighted before wedding Rhaenyra. Lover of Jeoffrey Lonmouth and according to mushroom sat by his bed till he died. pg 372

Criston: leaves Rhaenyra's party to join Alicent being either scorned or repulsed by Rhaenyra enough to fight in a blind fury.

Rhaenyra: doesn't leave with Laenor and stays in Kingslanding. Is clearly not interested in Laenor and prefers spending time with Harwin her new champion.

Viserys: Again does not address the main issue between the blacks and greens and instead tries to have Jace and Daeron be raised closer together.

115 A.C. Daemon and Laena travel diaries

Rhae Royce dies and runestone passes to her nephew pg 374

Daemon leaves the war in the stepstones to try and claim runestone but is denied and told to stay out of the Vale by Jeyne Arryn. pg 374

Daemon leaves for Driftmark where he duels and 'makes short work' (unknown is betrothal is broken or he dies) the sea lord of Braavos' son. He then marries Laena and they fly across the narrow sea first to Pentos, then across the Disputed Lands, then to Old Volantis, Rhoyne, Qohor, and Norvos. Pg 375-6

Rhaenyra gives birth to Lucerys in the later part of the year. Eustace says that Laenor and Harwin were by her side. Pg 376

Rhaenyra leaves for Dragonstone as she and Alicent can't stand each other pg 376

Laenor is said to visit "frequently" (frequently is in quotations implying that he is not actually visiting frequently?) pg 376

Alyn of Hull is born pg 443

---

Daemon: again tries to claim power by claiming Runestone but is denied. He then marries Laena either for love as the singers says but singers are known to romanticize things. More cynical men say because she gave him a way to keep from falling in the line of succession more. But Laena is not ahead of Daemon in the line of succession and marrying her won't stop him from being further down the line so I'm more inclined to believe he fancied her. (perhaps Laena and Daemon both fought in the stepstones or met more there?) pg 375

Laena: we can discern that Laena is very adventurous and loved to travel.

Viserys: Is happy to meet Luke and doesn't seem worried about him not looking Targaryen.

Alicent: According to Mushroom told Laenor to keep trying to get one that looks like him which could show that Alicent is aware that Luke and Jace are not Laenor's and is slyly letting him know she knows.

Rhaenyra: She now decides to leave kingslanding for dragonstone when she had previously chosen to stay in kingslanding.

116 A.C. The Second Quarrel ends

Baela and Rhaena are born and called "Daemon's first trueborn children" Pg 376 (Implying he has bastard children?)

Viserys and Daemon reconcile over Daemon now being a father. Pg 376-7

---

Daemon: seeks his brother's forgiveness again.

Viserys: forgives his brother again believing fatherhood changed him.

117 A.C. Bastardy Rumors Spread

Jeoffrey is born pg 377

Rumors spread in the Greens that Harwin is the father of Rhaenyra's sons. These rumors would support Alicent in getting Rhaenyra out of being heir but we know that Viserys does not care. Mushroom says Harwin is the father and Mellos hints at Harwin being the father. Eustace acknowledges the rumors but dismisses them. (Interestingly Eustace claims Rhaenyra slept with Daemon but does not believe her children were fathered by Harwin). Pg 377

The Velaryon boys are given dragon eggs by royal decree. (The Targaryen boys are not given dragon eggs in contrast) pg 377

Rhaenyra gains weight after childbirth. Mushroom says she resented Alicent for staying slim. Pg 377

Eustace says Viserys placed Jace on his knee and said the iron throne would be his one day. Pg 377

The Targaryen boys and Velaryon boys become rivals but still train and study together Pg. 377-8

Rhaenyra is close with Laena and Daemon Pg 378

---

Rhaenyra: is fond and more than fond of Laena perhaps implying a romantic interest or just a very close friendship? Pg 378

Viserys: has eggs placed with the Velaryon boys but not his own kids with Alicent. Perhaps wanting to dispel rumors as quickly as possible and assert their legitimacy.

118 A.C. The Betrothals

Viserys agrees for Rhaenyra to have Jace (4) and Luke (3) betrothed to Baela and Rhaena (2). pg 378

119 A.C. Laena Conceives

Laena gets pregnant again and Rhaenyra joins her on dirftmark. Pg 378

120 A.C. The Red Spring

Laena dies of childbed fever (basically infection from unsanitary conditions) and gives birth to a boy dragon baby who quickly dies Pg 378

Daemon flies to Dragonstone to get Rhaenyra's more skilled Maester Geradrys but he arrives too late pg 378

Mushroom says Rhaenyra and Daemon sat vigil over Laena's body and she comforted him while he grieved pg 378

Merchants at a fair in Spicetown say Laenor and Qarl quarreled and Qarl stabbed Laenor to death before fleeing. A large crowd of people are more likely to have the true story as it's harder to sway them all. Eustace also agrees with the merchants and says Qarl was motivated by jealousy of Laenor leaving him. Mushroom says Daemon payed Qarl to kill Laenor to make room for himself as Rhaenyra's husband. pg 379

Corlys offers a reward for Qarl's head but he's never caught. pg 379

Aegon and Helaena are both dragon riders of Sunfrye and Dreamfyre respectively pg 380

Daeron has Tessarion but has not ridden her yet. Pg 380

Aemond claims Vhagar but is ambushed and fights the velaryon boys. Luke slashes out Aemond's right eye (weirdly changed to his left in the show) pg 380-1

Viserys tries to make each side apologize to one another. Alicent demands Luke's eye and Rhaenyra says Aemond should be questioned "sharply" (tortured). pg 381

Aemond claims Aegon told him the Velaryon boys are strong and Aegon says everyone can tell. pg 382

Lyonel and Harwin die in Harrenhal by fire. Pg 383

Rumors say the fire was either a mischance or black Harren's curse. Mushroom says Corlys set the fire to get revenge for Laenor being cucked (why now after three kids?). Eustace says Daemon did it to remove his love rival. Another rumor was Larys did it to get Harrenhal as his seat. Mellows says Viserys ordered Harwin's death to hide Rhaenyra's affair with him and that Lyonel's death was unforeseen because he wasn't supposed to accompany his son back home. Pg 383

Viserys sends for Otto to replace Lyonel as hand. Pg 383

Rhaenyra remarries to Daemon with both of their previous spouses having not been dead for half a year. pg 383 Eustace says they married in secret knowing Viserys would not allow it. Mushroom says Rhaenyra was again pregnant and did not want a clear bastard. Pg 384

Rhaenyra gives birth to Aegon at the end of the year and according to Mushroom, named him Aegon to slight Alicent. pg 384-5

---

Laena: wants to ride Vhagar one last time before she dies showing her love and connection to her dragon.

Daemon: must have loved Laena a lot to try so desperately to save her life.

Rhaenyra: comforts Daemon (non-sexually) after Laena dies. But remarries to Daemon quite quickly, perhaps showing not desire for Daemon but need for a powerful ally?

Viserys: makes fun of Aemond by saying he can claim an egg or hatchling if he's bold enough. This also shows that Aemond was not given a cradle egg. pg 380. Viserys is more concerned about rumors of Rhaenyra's kids' bastardy than Aemond losing an eye, one being treated with threats of tongues being removed while the other is forced to kiss and make up. Viserys also decides to not make Rhaenyra Hand to avoid more conflict between her and Alicent, again unwilling to address tension and rather ignore it till he can't. Pg 383

122 A.C. Viserys and Sibling Marriage

Rhaeanyra gives birth to Viserys and his dragon egg does not hatch. Pg 384

Viserys weds Aegon (15) to Helaena (13). Pg 384

---

Viserys: interestingly weds Aegon and Helaena together, most likely to keep Alicent from seeking marriage alliances.

Aegon: Lazy and somewhat sulky. Drinks and fondles serving girls.

Helaena: Happy and described as making a fine mother (so caring and attentive?)

123 A.C. Twins Born

Jaehaerys and Jaehaera are born. Both get and hatch cradle eggs. Jaehaerys is polydactly and Jaehaera is described as slow to grow. 385

Mushroom claims Aegon fathered a bastard boy on a maiden from the street of silk and a girl by one of his mother's maidservents. Pg 386 (How would he know this being on Dragonstone?)

126 A.C. Take his head

Daeron is sent to oldtown to be a cupbearer and squire for Lord Hightower. Pg 386

Corlys falls ill with fever and the issue of succession is raised. Pg 386

Corlys's nephew Vaemond claims he should be heir as Rhaenyra's kids are bastards. Rhaenyra has Daemon behead Vaemond and feeds his head to her dragon. Pg 386 Vaemond's younger cousins, his wife, and his sons flee to Kingslanding to plead their case and their tongues are removed. Pg 386

Viserys cuts his hand open on the throne had has two fingers removed. pg 387

Cregan overthrows his Uncle as regent and imprisons him and his cousins. Pg 416

---

Alicent: While it is not stated, I believe Alicent sent Daeron away for his own safety after Vaemond was killed.

Rhaenyra: Escalating what she's willing to do to keep power, no longer is she bending to Viserys' wishes like she did as a teen or sneaking behind his back, this is out-in-the-open murder.

Viserys: Again esculating his covering for Rhaenyra allowing her to order the death of another highborn.

127 A.C. The Feast for the lost fingers

Maelor is born and given a cradle egg Pg 386

Viserys holds a feast for his recovery and Rhaenyra and Alicent attend with all their children. The court chronicles record that the two sides looked to mend things. Mushroom says that once Viserys left, fighting broke out between the kids. Pg 387

Viserys stops sitting the iron throne and Mushroom claims to be entertaining the king. Pg 387

Maester Mellos dies and is replaced by Orwyle by the Citadel. Pg 388

Daenaera Velaryon is born.

---

The Velaryon and Targaryen Boys: All three (assuming Daeron and Jeoffrey are there as well despite not being mentioned) boys go out of their way to provoke eachother.

128 A.C.

Cregan’s wife Arra Norrey dies in child birth to his son and heir pg 416

Dalton avenges his uncle’s death in the Stepstones and claims the sea stone chair (world of ice and fire)

129 A.C. 3rd day of the 3rd moon

Helaena brings her children to Viserys' room and he tells them a story about Jaehaerys. Viserys dies in his sleep. Pg 390

---

Viserys: his last act is to tell a story of a Targaryen king to his grandchildren.

Thanks for reading the first half of the timeline breakdown for rewriting HotD!

#hotd #house of the dragon #asoiaf #Fire and Blood #Fire and Blood Timeline #Fire and Blood discussion #Alicent Hightower #rhaenyra targeryan #Viserys Targaryen #Daemon Targaryen #hotd rewrite

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idlingintheimpalapodcast · 25 days ago

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New Episode Alert: What is going on with SPN? A discussion about fandom spaces with Nicole, a real-life anthropologist

Got a really interesting one for you this week folks ('They're all interesting episodes, Kasey'. Excellent point voice in my head)

Okay, we've got something pretty different this week. A little while ago our lovely Sandra was interviewed as part of someone's dissertation research. A few of you probably remember Nicole, the lovely researcher who was in some fandom spaces learning about our crazy lil world.

Well her dissertation is finished now & she agreed to come have a chat with us about her process (heh), her findings and her experience.

If you love hearing Kasey trip over themselves with questions, then get frustrated at the lack of solid answers then this is the episode for you. (So many questions y'all. But no answers. I was going crazy)

But far more importantly, a really great look into our fandom ecosystem and how it all keeps working & balancing & growing. Absolutely fascinating stuff, give it a listen! Listen on Spotify Watch on Youtube:

Chapter Timestamps

00:00:00 - Intro

00:02:28 - Meet the researcher behind the study

00:05:07 - Nicole’s personal fandom and fanfic journey

00:06:56 - The struggle to break out of lurk mode

00:10:08 - Lurking and the methods of anthropology

00:11:32 - Ethnography = radically hanging out

00:16:30 - Fanfic spaced use and user migration

00:17:46 - Why observe a SPN FanFic Discord server?

00:19:39 - Had Nicole read SPN FanFic prior?

00:22:32 - How the server research was conducted?

00:28:23 - Can passion allow you to be objective?

00:33:09 - The art of researching people

00:36:06 - Getting permission to study and entire server

00:40:36 - The outsiders looking in on fandom

00:42:34 - Digital anonymity

00:44:43 - Are subject details not as important in anthropology today?

00:48:01 - Wholeism

00:50:13 - A disconnect between who you are online and in real life

00:54:54 - How the research changed?

01:00:32 - Relationship between the body and what we read

01:02:50 - Collective cognition

01:08:50 - Being creative with others

01:10:25 - The different levels of sharing in the creative process

01:11:46 - What things are needed to keep a fandom ecosystem healthy?

01:16:57 - The change in how readers engage

01:18:57 - Learned ways of being social are not the same on all platforms

01:22:25 - The self-promotional aspect of creating

01:27:14 - How fanfic writing can lead to original publishing?

01:28:39 - Reader norms and culture

01:30:30 - Writer and reader clashes

01:35:36 - How important was feeling safe for members of the server?

01:39:09 - Knowing when to leave a space

01:42:26 - Finding a nice space to share in creativity

01:44:45 - The energy of the fandom

01:46:18 - The collaboration of fanfic creation

01:52:38 - How much agency do fanfic writers have over their blorbos?

01:55:23 - How do writers write for their reader insert audience?

02:00:23 - The magic of reality in fiction

02:02:39 - Is Dean Winchester running the show?

02:07:57 - Who has ownership over a fictional character?

02:13:24 - How fanatical is the Supernatural fandom?

02:18:33 - The conundrum of collaborative storytelling

02:21:27 - Who gets to say if they’re gay?

02:25:22 - How fanon influences canon

02:30:20 - Nicole’s final research thoughts

02:33:45 - Closing thoughts and outro

We'd really appreciate it if you could support us on ko-fi. It helps massively!

#supernatural #podcast #idlingintheimpala #spnfamily #idling in the impala #spn #spn podcast #supernatural fandom #fandom #fandom things #anthropology #research #knowledge #academic research #education #a podcast by and for lovers of supernatural and the fanfiction it inspires

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velvet-vox · 11 months ago

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Why Doll perfectly exemplifies all of the strengths and flaws of Murder Drones as a series.

From the amount of posts present on my blog about the specific individual, it is rather obvious to assume that Doll Yurikova (I'm still convinced the fandom made up this surname) is my favourite character from Murder Drones and you wouldn't be wrong.

She just simply tickles my needy scratch for weird, cool complex villainess characters.

However, eventually I also realised that she more than any other character embodies everything that makes murder drones a great show and everything that detracts the show from being genuinely amazing.

Let's start off with the good, anything I say applies to the both of them:

Doll/Murder drones are generally cool, unconventionally attractive, have great potential (this point will be elaborated upon) and are very complex in both the themes that they bring to the table and the philosophical standpoints discussed.

Coolness factor is mostly subjective, but I am sure any Murder drones fan will tell you that the sci-fi/horror/mystery/romance/comedy show about sentient cannibalistic robots who fight against eldritch atrocities with Portal 2-esque music is an absolute blast conceptually and visually. In the same way the russian robo vampire who was previously a cheerleader before deciding to commit cannibalism to avenge her dead parents has swarms of fans simping for her.

Unconventionally attractive is determined by unconventional people, said people also have rewatched the show seventeen different times.

Now, regarding the great potential, although I've also elaborated the previous points, this is one that will carry over when discussing the negatives of both the character and the show, but as for positive, you can just feel that Murder Drones is so much different from anything else you have ever watched, it truly gives me haunted Ghibli vibes in the way the story plays out. It could really be amazing. As for Doll, every time I watch her in the show up to her death I just get really sad thinking about what could have been if she had a redemption arc or just a better life in general.

Murder drones has abuse as his main theme and how it circulates into destructive chains and Doll is definitely one of the more interesting examples of said theme, being part of the abused and mauled drone designation that became an abuser herself. I say one of the more interesting examples because her story is fleshed out better than someone else's, say Tessa or Alice.

And now for the negatives, we need to bring out the big elephant in the room:

The show is only 8 episodes long and they are writing the season one finale in the same way you would write a series finale since making Murder drones costs Glitch a crap ton of money when they could just lower the animation quality and allow the story more time to breathe (mind you this is also Liam Vickers fault). I just hate the 8 episodes 20 minute long formula, it has, in my opinion, destroyed modern show telling and I honestly can't bear it any longer.

Besides that, 8 episodes of 20 minutes means that Doll's arc has to be paced quickly in order to get all the other characters (particularly the main ones) and elements to shine and that unfortunately leads to the fact that both Doll and Murder drones lack the one thing that separates Doll from being a human being and Murder Drones from being an amazing show, and that thing is (drum rolls) the tissue.

To explain, they have the (exo)skeleton, the organs, the mandibles and all the things that would make a piece of fiction feel truly human, but without the connective tissue, the skin, they both end up just short of those standards and as a result I can't confidently say that they are truly evocative individuals. Tissue of course is a metaphor for quote on quote "filler" in regards to the show and "villain at rest" moments in regards to Doll and her arc. And let's talk about the ending of said arc because of its possibility of paralleling the conclusion of the show;

You can say a lot of things about Doll's death but one thing that's impossible to deny is the impact of her death in your mind, everything about its execution is just so brutal that it leaves you a lasting feeling in your body; in a similar manner, the show could end with an absolute gut punch that remains impressed in your mind for months to come.

Want more?

#murder drones doll #murder drones tessa #murder drones uzi #murder drones alice #murder drones spoilers #murder drones analysis #glitch productions #liam vickers animation #murder drones ep 7 #murder drones

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merriclo · 5 months ago

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A Quick Analysis of the Tanizaki Siblings

With the release of chapter 118, it’s been officially confirmed that Naomi and Jun’ichirō are not blood-related, seemingly shifting their entire dynamic. this has, of course, resulted in many different opinions and stances within the fandom, and i wanted to share my own thoughts on it.

this post will briefly go over each of their characters and their relationship with each other. later on, i will be making a video essay going even deeper into it, because,, i genuinely can’t stop thinking about this.

content warning for discussions of incest and sexual assault, harassment, and abuse. please please please don’t read if these topics are too heavy for you. take care of yourself. this is also a repost, as the original post didn’t show up in any tags. you can read the original post, alongside a great addition, here!

in order to fully understand them together, we need to establish who they are apart. so, part one of this will be an analysis on Jun’ichirō’s character, part two of Naomi’s, and part three of their relationship.

Part One — Jun’ichirō Tanizaki

(i’ve already discussed a bit of Jun’ichirō’s character in one of my earlier posts, but i wanted to take the time to further elaborate on a few points i made. i wasn’t able to fit some other points in, though, due simply to them not being very relevant, so if you’re curious, go check that one out too!!)

Jun’ichirō is an incredibly fascinating character for multiple reasons. he thinks of himself as incredibly average. I’d like to call attention to this quote in particular. a fact exemplified by this quote:

“…Tanizaki felt he was mediocre at his job, held mediocre principles, and had a mediocre sense of justice, which made him a mediocre human being. He didn’t have the courage to talk back to or stand up to Dazai. Put simply, he was incredibly passive.”

this is found in A Day at the Detective Agency on page 42, a short story detailing how the Armed Detective Agency decided what Atsushi’s entrance exam would be, told through the third person perspective of Jun’ichirō.

these words, these claims of mediocrity, are his own. he truly believes himself to be an average, unassuming member of the agency. in other parts of the story, he calls himself timid (pg 37) and an ordinary guy (pg 54), and says that his smile always lacks self-confidence (pg26.) his genuine opinion of himself is that he’s nothing special.

despite this, we see time and time again that he is a trusted and valued member of the Agency. in the Cannibalism arc, he was left to face the entirety of the Black Lizard all by himself, and prevailed. Even Hirotsu, a veteran of the Port Mafia and leader of the Black Lizard—a man who spends his days surrounded by the most skilled assassins Yokohama has to offer—said that Jun’ichirō was terrifying, and perfectly suited for assassination. this is only exemplified by the fact that he almost succeeded in killing Mori, thwarted only by Kōyō at the last second.

in A Day at the Detective Agency, it’s said that Kunikida needed the help of the best of the best, meaning Him and Naomi (pg 42.) but Jun’ichirō brushes this off, saying that Kunikida only wanted Naomi’s help, but the siblings had become a kind of package deal, and that’s why he was also recruited to help him.

this boy’s esteem is horrifically low, and he refuses to see his own worth, making every excuse there is just to call himself normal. (this is the reason why i honestly view him in A Day at the Detective Agency as a a bit of an unreliable narrator: his own self-perception leads to many false statements, all primarily centered around himself.)

however, we as the audience know that Jun’ichirō is not at all normal. the moment someone he cares for is put in harms way, a switch flips in his mind and he becomes an incredibly dangerous person who will stop at nothing to try and save them. we see this first in chapter four when Higuchi shoots Naomi.

this is also the mindset that he was in when he battled the Black Lizard and attempted to assassinate Mori in the Cannibalism arc, as well as when he faced off against John Steinbeck and H.P. Lovecraft. most recently, this is shown in chapter 117 when Jun’ichirō threatens to rip an actual God (Ame-no-gozen) limb from limb. (i’d add photos of the panels but i have a very limited amount of pictures that i can add!! sorry (′︿‵｡) )

this willingness to abandon any and all morals should his loved ones be put in harms way is a cornerstone of his entire character. So long as it preserves the lives of the members of the Agency, he will do anything. and that isn’t limited to just killing someone, either. without hesitation, he volunteered himself to be the one traded off to the Port Mafia the moment the possibility of Yosano going there was mentioned.

furthermore, in a Bungo Stray Dogs exhibition, Asagiri claimed that Jun’ichirō is the closest to “evil” out of everybody in the ADA (exhibition translation found here!!) (also, it’s so interesting that the translator put sister in quotations. there really has been hints all along!!) this excerpt discusses the scene where Jun’ichirō faced off against John Steinbeck and H.P. Lovecraft, and tricked an innocent trucker into hitting his enemy using his ability Light Snow, causing a crash that the trucker would not be able to escape from unharmed. he did all of this just to ensure the safety of Naomi.

in summary: Jun’ichirō views himself as an incredibly mediocre, insignificant person, and he will do absolutely anything if it means saving his loved ones.

Part Two — Naomi Tanizaki

(warning this analysis is not the kindest to Naomi. if you don’t wanna read that, stop now!!)

Naomi is based off of the main female lead of the irl Tanizaki’s work Naomi—a story where a man tries to turn 15 year old Naomi into a Westernized woman, but ends up getting manipulated by her instead when she changes the power dynamic between them. (there’s.. many aspects of Naomi that i believe impact BSD, but ahajjdkdka that’s for another post.)

Naomi is introduced as Jun’ichirō’s obsessed sister. she is shown to be all over him, touching him inappropriately in public and singing his praises. she’s clingy, and doesn’t leave his side once.

but, there’s a lot more to her if you look closely.

firstly, she is incredibly intelligent. In A Day at the Detective Agency, she conspired with Dazai to cheat her way into being the hostage and Jun’ichirō being the bomber during Atsushi’s entrance exam.

“Startled, [Jun’ichirō] looked over at Naomi, who gazed back at him teary-eyed.

“I just…”

[Jun’ichirō] could see the hearts pulsating in his sister’s eyes. She covered her slightly crimson cheeks with her long, delicate fingers, then said, “I just wanted…to be your hostage so you could tie me up and threaten me, my dear, sweet brother…”” (pg 51.)

then, in the main series, she nearly caught on to the significance of Haruno’s cat, Mii-chan.

keep in mind, she is not one of the detectives. she doesn’t have an ability, and she hasn’t been trailed by Natsume for years like Fukuzawa and Dazai have. despite all of this, she picked up on this weird correlation before even Haruno, his owner, did. and let’s not forget how surprised both Fukuzawa and Mori were at the reveal of Natsume being Mii-chan.

furthermore, in chapter 23, in which Steinbeck and Lovecraft hunt Haruno and Naomi down, it’s shown that she remembered exactly what Dazai told her in regards to how she should act in an emergency situation.

not only did she execute this advice near-perfectly, but she planned ahead in order to do so. in fact, if it weren’t for Steinbeck’s ability, they would have easily gotten away.

Haruno says that she would bet on Naomi outclassing Jun’ichirō as a detective, and i have to agree with her. in A Day at the Detective Agency, Naomi’s little plan that i mentioned earlier went off without a hitch. granted, it was likely Dazai who laid out all the steps, but she executed it without error and fooled both her brother and Kunikida.

Naomi is also a highly trusted employee, despite only working part-time (A Day at the Detective Agency, pg 25.) she’s very close with Fukuzawa, and i’d go so far as to say that she acts as a kind of personal assistant for him sometimes. in chapter 15, she is the only Agency employee present alongside Fukuzawa for the between the ADA and The Guild, a very high-stakes and confidential meeting. she is also the only person to think of getting Fukuzawa in chapter 10 when the rest of the employees are bickering about whether or not they can save Atsushi.

(manga panels provided by the amazing @shin--soukoku !! i wasn’t able to access the English translations of this chapter, and they came to my rescue. thank you!!! <3 go follow them they’re so cool and smart and correct about everything.)

in summary: Naomi is freakishly intelligent, and she’s not afraid to use her wits to manipulate a situation to her advantage. she’s well-respected in the Agency, and has the connections to influence others.

Part Three — Their Relationship

(in this part, i will be discussing topics like incest and sexual assault, harassment, and abuse. if that is at all too heavy or triggering for you, please stop reading immediately. take care of yourself, and stay safe <3)

alright, first things first, let’s establish something: these two are siblings. i’ve seen many people that they are not, but i have to disagree.

not only do they commonly refer to each other as brother and sister, but it’s also up in the air as to whether or not Naomi is even aware of their lack of blood-relation. furthermore, two siblings not sharing any DNA doesn’t make them not siblings. fostered, adopted, and step-siblings are still siblings, and as such i will continue to view the Tanizaki’s as siblings. they see each other as brother and sister, and so that is what they are. their relationship is incestuous.

it is also not consensual.

it is stately clearly several times that Jun’ichirō does not enjoy what Naomi does to him, especially when they are in public. here are just a few examples, taken from the A Day at the Detective Agency short story:

“To make matters worse, [Naomi] always tried to have some sort of physical contact with her brother, regardless of location or who was around…. [Jun’ichirō] would start acting self-conscious every time, and his eyes would wander, but Naomi even seemed to enjoy her brother’s reactions.” (pg 26)

“Naomi softly traced [Jun’ichirō]’s collarbone with her fingernail…. [Jun’ichirō] turned red and blinked uncomfortably.” (pg 26)

“[Naomi had] also taken that as an opportunity to try to force herself on [Jun’ichirō], but he managed to escape.” pg. 33

to clarify, the first two quotes take place in front of several of the other detectives, and the third when the two are alone. when it’s said that Jun’ichirō’s eyes were wandering, it was later specified that he was looking at anything but her (pg 27.)

throughout the manga, Jun’ichirō also expresses that he’s uncomfortable with her advances in public. however, whenever he tries to stop her, she threatens or embarrasses him. this is an example of that as seen in chapter 4.

Jun’ichirō, for lack of a better term, resigns himself to this. despite the severe discomfort of himself and everyone who bares witness to them, he makes very few moves to stop her.

the reason for this is stated clearly on page 54 of, you guessed it, A Day at the Detective Agency.

“The only thing [Jun’ichirō] really even wished for was his little sister’s happiness.”

he will do anything if it means making her happy.

Naomi and Jun’ichirō relationship is very realistic in the sense that one person leverages the other’s love against them, as is the case in many instances of incestuous sexual abuse. it’s an incredibly common manipulation tactic, and it results in the abuse lasting for extremely long periods of time.

Jun’ichirō’s willingness to do whatever it takes to make Naomi happy is the very thing she uses against him, weaponizing the love they have for each other so that she can do whatever she would like to him.

and i do think that the love they have for each other is real, to a degree. in my opinion, Jun’ichirō does not see her in either a romantic or sexual light, but he does love her. meanwhile, Naomi absolutely views Jun’ichirō in a sexual way.

in addition to this, i think there’s also a kind of limerence going on between both of them. limerence is when someone has an obsessive, unrequited attachment towards somebody, often surfacing as a romantic or sexual fixation on them, or as pedestalizing them.

Jun’ichirō’s seems to surface as the latter, as seen here in chapter 24.

he’s surpassed just placing her on a pedestal, he’s placed her on the same level as the divine, hence his continued willingness to let her assault and harass him time and time again, despite his own displeasure.

(i would like to further emphasize that the fact that Jun’ichirō loves and idolizes her does not make what she does to him okay. what we see within the manga and light novels can be defined as sexual harassment/assault. furthermore, it’s implied several times that they’ve had intercourse. due to Jun’ichirō’s own blatant discomfort, and the reoccurrences of her manipulating and using threats against him, and how it’s said that Naomi forces herself on him and forces him into doing things, i’m not afraid to call it rape. i just wanted to make it extra clear that despite exploring their characters, i am not excusing anything she does. Naomi is an abuser, and Jun’ichirō is her victim.)

the Tanizaki siblings’ relationship can be summed up as this: Jun’ichirō will let Naomi do anything, so long as it makes her happy, and Naomi takes continuous advantage of this facts.

a very common theme in Bungo Stray Dogs is that the cycle of abuse is not without love, and that you can harm someone you love without intending to, and that you can love someone who has harmed you. Dazai cared for Akutagawa, the Headmaster cared for Atsushi, both Kōyō and Akutagawa cared for Kyōka, and Verlaine cared for Chūya. each of these relationships explore different kinds of abuse—mentor-mentee, mother-daughter, father-son, brother-brother—and the love that is often trapped inside of them. it’s one of my favorite things about this entire series.

this is a topic i will dissect much deeper in my video essay (of which’s release date i am still unsure of at the moment,) but i wanted to mention it here at the end here because i think the Tanizaki siblings are a very good representation of this.

that’s all i have to stay about the siblings at the moment. i’m sorry if some points seem under-supported, i had to leave out a lot to bend around tumblr’s image-limit and to keep this shorter than i originally intended. also my bad for any and all spelling or grammar mistakes, i tried to fix everything but i usually miss some stuff!

thank you so so much for reading all of my rambling thoughts about the Tanizaki’s, and i highly encourage you to add on your own thoughts (agreeing or disagreeing, i’m open to all conversations!!) in either the reblogs, the notes, or my askbox!! i only ask that you be respectful about it, as this is just an analysis i did for fun in my own spare time（⌒▽⌒ゞ thank you all so much again for reading, i know this was a bit of a long one <3

#take a shot every time i mention A Day at the Detective Agency ahajjdkdka #i’m so normal about jun’ichirō #bungou stray dogs #bungo stray dogs #bsd #bsd tanizaki #bsd junichiro #bsd junichiro tanizaki #bsd naomi #bsd naomi tanizaki #bungo stray dogs analysis #bsd analysis

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sunnyshinesunshine · 5 months ago

Text

Okay so I’ve finally solidified my opinion on The Rings of Power and given that it is my opinion it is therefore very important and I’m sure everyone is dying to hear it (this is sarcasm)

I’ll start by saying I’m not a critical person when it comes to things. I consume media to enjoy myself, not to pick apart its literary or thematic flaws. It’s fine if you do, but that’s just not me.

I will also say I’ve never read the Fall of Númenor as its own story, so any Tolkien primary sources I’m vaguely alluding to (this isn’t a research paper been there done that got the high school diploma I bake cookies for a living I ain’t citing shit thanks <3) are the Silmarillion, LoTR, and The Hobbit.

I didn’t like TROP for the first season, but after catching up on S2, I’ve come to enjoy it.

S1 is the full of world building, setting up the political stage and the relationships between the characters that lead to the creation of the rings and all the other bad hullabaloo that ends in the Last Alliance.

Safe to say, I spent the whole time going ‘what? why is he/she/them saying/believing/acting like this? why is it/this portrayed like this???’ and felt very irked by the whole thing.

S2, the rings are being created, familiar events start happening, the puzzle pieces from S1 that were so unfamiliar and bothersome to me then come together to create a picture that I knew.

Once I got to thinking I realized I actually know a whole lot less about the fall of numenor and the creation of the rings than I thought I did.

When Tolkien writes about those events, he gives the broad strokes in a very history-book way. Celebrimbor creates the rings because he is deceived by Sauron. Tar-Míriel is overthrown by Ar-Pharazôn and marries him against his will. Elrond is with Gil-Galad as his herald.

These are the things, amongst others, that we know. Unlike in the Hobbit or LoTR, we aren’t given any glimpses into the heads or relationships of the characters in anything other than what amounts to almost a timeline of events.

This, of course, leaves a lot of room for Tolkien fans to ask questions. Questions that can be answered through imagination. Imagination becomes ideas, ideas become discussions, discussions become a collective understanding of what happened (fanon*. I’m talking fanon. please read the note at the end because I think fanon is awesome and deserves to be defended)

For example. We know Celebrimbor and Narvi built the Doors of Durin together and added possibly the most ridiculous riddle password possible.

When the Doors are first introduced in LoTR, it is also in the middle of Gimli and Legolas’ semi feuding, and before both of them have some serious moments regarding their histories and cultures (Khazad-Dûm and Lothlórien respectively).

All of this to conclude that at some point between Gigolas’s inter-species feuding and the password to the damn doors being ‘mellon’, as Tolkien fans, we came to the conclusion that Celebrimbor and Narvi were close friends.

Celebrimbor and Narvi are not really much more than acquaintances in TROP. And that isn’t inaccurate. The source material doesn’t have an opinion on it really.

Fanon says Celebrimbor and Narvi were pals. TROP says they weren’t. Canon doesn’t care either way.

I mention this example to explain why TROP felt so wrong especially at the beginning. Essentially we, or at least I, had this idea of how things should be, and when TROP diverged from that I felt lost and annoyed.

Now, I find watching TROP to be honestly kind of fascinating, like watching someone else painting using a model and comparing it to the painting I had already created of that same model.

It’s kind of fun. And every Elrond deserves all of us cheering him on.

*about Fanon:

I love fanon it’s awesome and great and it’s fucking collective story telling in a way that hasn’t really existed in modern times. Thousands of people from all over the world create and agree and discuss and add on to stories. The marauders fandom is almost completely fanon and that’s wonderful. Every single one of you who share your ideas about characters or settings or clothes or even (especially) who create the elleths who exist in the Silmarillion but don’t at the same time, you are awesome.

You’ve created a story and world together. Without being paid. You’ve agreed and created simply for the love of creation. And that’s so amazing.

Fanon is awesome and I don’t care for anyone who calls it cringe.

#silmarillion #tolkien #the rings of power #trop #elrond #celebrimbor #narvi #incoherent rambling #someday I will get my thoughts out #without having it be a whole production #fanon #fanon positivity #fanon insanity #in the best way

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egg-emperor · 2 months ago

Note

"I just don't like when people see them as one in the same"

Oh that's absolutely an understandable problem. Like Jimbotnik is a great re-interpetation of Eggman and what went on in 3 works for him, but its not really something that Game!Eggman suffered from so much as "why the hell do my parents all care about a dead girl?" which pretty much just shows his self centered attitude in a worse light. Like I get they're the same character, but they're written with enough differences for their respective mediums (its part of the why Stone would NEVER work in the games canon or comics but works perfectly for the films).

Hell I wouldn't even say this is a problem limited to Jimbotnik, people have done this shit with Boom!Eggman and Archie!Robotnik even though one is the most lighthearted while the other is detestable even by Eggman standards and is more machine than human at that point. Sorry if this sounds like yapping I just wanted to bring this point up because you're right on this.

Yeah I feel it should be pretty simple, everything would be better and much more peaceful if everyone was on the same page of understanding the adaptions are very different from the games and we're free to have our opinions on whether we like that or not. But discussion gets too often convoluted by people acting like they're one in the same and making it so much more complicated than it needs to be

Like I spend way too much of my time talking about adaptions having to say the games are much different and relay the facts, even though it should be obvious and if it was, we could talk more about the actual contents and differences between both versions and the things we like and dislike about them. But it's hard to get anywhere with that when people are saying they're literally the same

But yeah I can kinda believe all the stuff in movie 3 was consistent within the movieverse. But the stuff about his childhood has lead to those who can't separate and see the differences between the movie and game characterizations to think it applies to game Eggman too and that's my gripe. It's not really saying anything about what I think about the movies compared to certain parts of the fandom

Because it's such a stark opposite instead that it harms perception and discussion of his game character to see them as the same. Game Eggman has always been very secure and genuinely believed he deserves all the love and attention to the point of being like "ugh why is everyone always talking about my terminally ill child cousion who tragically died? hellooo, I'm right here being brilliant and perfect and worthy of your praise so give it to me"

And that's very compelling for game Eggman and I really like what it says about him, just how deep his narcissistic egotism and entitlment goes, and how genuine and long term it is for him and is such a strong motivator to accomplish his goals and the reason they exist in the first place, to make everyone recognize the brilliance he knows he has and hail him for it. While jimbotnik has his very different ways others like and find interesting too

And yeah this doesn't just happen when it comes to the movies compared to the games, it happens with every other adaption despite them all being very different from the games too so I'm always sure to discuss it there and emphasize that too. My main focus and priority every time is just to help people understand game Eggman's differences and why he's so cool and loveable for it, whether you also like his other portrayals in other adaptions or not

#asks #dr. eggman #eggman #dr eggman #dr robotnik #sonic the hedgehog #sonic movie

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4amode · 3 months ago

Note

As their fan, what do you think are Remus and Sirius’s greatest personality strengths and weaknesses? Why? What do you love about their dynamic? What are your favorite headcanons of them? Do you have any fav ships (from any fandom) that the dyanamic remind you of their ship?

P.s 1 I don't dislike Tonks, but her with Remus got together, really seem out of nowhere, right?

P.s 2 Do you have any fav fics for them?

I’ll try to answer without explicitly referring to any specific fanfiction and keep things more general, since I think it’d be reductive to tie them to particular fanfics or headcanons. This is just how I personally see the characters, so, of course, some of what I believe might not match how others view them.

_________

🐺 Remus:

I’d say Remus’ greatest strength is his empathy. He really understands people, or at least tries to, and that’s what makes him such a great teacher. He doesn’t impose his ideas on others. Rather, he guides you toward it and leaves room for discussion. He has the patience to listen to everyone’s perspective before deciding where he stands.

That’s not to say he never gets angry, but he always tries to manage it, or at least step away when it becomes too much. It’s probably because he’s afraid of anger as such an unstable emotion, and he doesn’t want to lose control [as if he ever would]. When it comes to people he cares about, he's careful and protective. But with those outside his inner circle? I see him as kind of indifferent, even a bit cold. He doesn’t care for their opinions and doesn’t bother arguing if he doesn’t think their viewpoint matters to him. And, of course: sarcasm. Sassy, sarcastic Remus is everything.

Weaknesses: Being a werewolf and his family situation made Remus very self-reliant, to the point where he struggles to ask for help, even though he’s capable of accepting it when it’s offered. He has pretty low self-esteem and constantly underestimates how much people care about him and the lengths they’d go for him. He’s the kind of person who would quietly take insults directed at himself but would fiercely defend his loved ones.

The fact that, in canon, he didn’t check on Harry, even though he was the only one who could, makes me think that his sensitivity and low self-esteem sometimes weigh him down, especially in emotionally taxing situations, like the deaths of James and Peter or the accusations against Sirius.

_________

⭐️ Sirius:

Confidence, style, and passion. He’s deeply emotional and feels everything with his whole heart, which also makes him incredibly honest. I love how confident he is, likely because of his family situation, but what makes him truly amazing is his ability to walk away from that toxic environment and those beliefs. Breaking free from his family’s influence took immense bravery. His ability to ask for help when he needs it's a skill that not everyone has.

He’s excitable and has a childlike eagerness that makes him great with kids [you can hear me sobbing in the background]. Also, I love the headcanon that gives him a perfectly androgynous look [but that might as well be a very personal preference]

Weaknesses: Sirius can be far too impulsive, often acting first and thinking later, which has gotten him into serious [pun intended] trouble more than once. His intense emotions can overwhelm him to the point where he doesn’t fully understand them at first, leading to more confusion and frustration. When he’s feeling vulnerable, he tends to mask it with arrogance or defiance, which doesn’t always help the situation, especially when what he truly needs is to open up.

To analyze both of them, I think it’s helpful to consider their Patronus and Animagus forms. Remus is a wolf. Wolves aren’t naturally trusting and tend to form close-knit packs, which aligns with his selective and protective nature when it comes to those he loves. He’s aloof with others but fiercely loyal to his inner circle. Dogs, on the other hand, are playful, excitable, trusting, and loyal to a fault.

Their dynamic is mainly on the "opposites attract" side of the spectrum. Remus is reserved, reflective, and careful, while Sirius is the complete opposite, which creates a natural balance between them. At the same time, Remus is very much a Marauder at heart, willing to join or encourage Sirius [& James] in his pranks and plans, and Sirius has just enough sensibility and care not to hurt Remus, which always tugs at his heartstrings.

For the Tonks/Remus relationship, I won’t lie,it weirds me out too. I’ve always thought the bias that Remus and Sirius were in love might have influenced my feelings about it. The fact that Remus ends up with Tonks after Sirius’ death just doesn’t sit right with me, especially considering that Tonks is Sirius’ niece. Even without that detail, though, it still feels like a very random pairing.

_________

☆ Some of my fav headcanons [some I've read, others I've just come up with]:

They rescue baby Harry from the Dursleys and raise him together [cute chubby-cheeked BABY. HARRY. got my heart]

Sirius sometimes gets nightmares about his parents. When he does, Remus wakes him up, conjures him a cup of warm tea, and reads to him until he falls back asleep

Sirius remembers each and every one of Remus' scars

Sirius stealing Remus' sweaters, both of them having a whole wardrobe-worth of ragged band tees from the 70s and 80s

Remus always wearing several hair ties on his wrist in case Sirius needs them [Sirius likes it because he thinks it's like marking his territory]

Sirius sleeps always in Remus' bed because his scent calms him, and he doesn't have nightmares from his years in Azkaban or his family

Lots of PDA, Sirius is a very physical, touchy person, so he always maintains physical contact with Remus, and Remus absolutely doesn't mind

Remus is the only one capable of keeping Sirius in line when he gets too far

Bassist Remus / singer Sirius

Remus' wolf accepting Sirius as his mate and not attacking him even when Sirius is not in his animagus form [he still tries to avoid that because it makes Remus worry]

Adult wolfstar surviving [ouch.] and opening a shop together [tattoo shop, bookstore, you name it]

_________

☆ Fanfic list:

that’s the art of getting by by sarewolf [rating: M]

Dress up in You by MsKingBean89 [M]

Trust the Wolf to Bring You Home by pancake_surprise (keenbean) [G]

Stealing Harry by copperbadge [M]

How Remus Got His Groove Back by RealityShowJunky [M]

The Devil's White Knight by orphan_account [Rating: E] This is mainly a Drarry fic, but there's a super sweet parents Wolfstar on the side

Note: I've excluded ATYD, Art Heist, Baby!, Crimson Rivers, Best Friend's Brother, Choices, and The Cadence of Part-time Poets from the list because those are a must, the alphabet, a god-given blessing, even if they are not exclusively focused on wolfstar.

_________

☆ Similar ships, in my opinion:

Wei Wuxian / Lan Wangji - MDZS

Crowley / Aziraphale - Good Omens

Barty Crouch Jr. / Evan Rosier - Marauders era

Tim Stoker / Sasha James - TMA

Gojo Satoru / Geto Suguru - jjk

Achilles / Patroclus - TSoA

_________

A final bonus:

☆ Songs that remind me of wolfstar the most:

Moonage Daydream by David Bowie [a.k.a. God]

Mr. Brightside by The Killers

All of David Bowie's discography, I'm afraid [yeah, okay, you got me]

Beauty and the Beast by David Bowie

Wonderwall by Oasis

Cigarette Daydreams by Cage the Elephant

There Is a Light That Never Goes Out by The Smiths

Little Lion Man by Mumford & Sons

As It Was by Harry Styles

Meet Me At Our Spot by the anxiety, willow, Tyler Cole

Malboro Nights by Lonely God

_____

Hope you enjoyed this illegally long post, and also sorry for the late answer 🐺⭐️

#wolfstar #answered #sirius black #remus lupin #marauders era

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drconstellation · 1 year ago

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The Newton/Crowley Mirror-Parallel in S1

Future Echoes from the Past #2

Let me take a moment to try and explain the process of how I approach meta writing. I’m not new to this. I might be new to this fandom, but I’ve been writing metas for twenty years in other fandoms. I’m an old hand at this, and I learnt how to do it with some pretty critical masters of the game. I’ve been wrestling with this meta for several days, which never a good sign. I thought I was on the right track here but got to a point where I was trying to make my biased square blocks fit into the round holes I was expecting to see, and they weren’t, and thought, nope, it’s time to back off and see what is there instead. When things don’t fall and click into place, when you can’t see the next connection easily, when it becomes too convoluted - and actually, I think some of the story is missing in the crucial places - that's a dead end for the time being, so the meta I was expecting (and hoping) to see didn’t emerge. But there is still something there to be revealed, and it was from a bit that I didn't think had much importance.

A few days ago I posted a meta about how the paintball fight at Tadfield Manor was a loose re-creation of the Great War in Heaven that lead to the formation of Heaven and Hell. It was more a description of events and the two sides, and I didn’t assign any of the S1 characters to the celestial characters that we would have expected to be involved with the rebellion. For example, the manager Nigel strikes me as standing in for Gabriel, and jaded old Norman, who is on the verge of retirement, and who organized the “team building exercise” is most likely to be Lucifer - he is the leader of the Yellow team, who are quite unhappy and full of complaints about the others in the office. But other than those two, the other bit players amongst our regular cast were missing, or unclear. And this was a problem, a BIG problem, because while there hints to who was Crowley, the match to Aziraphale was nowhere to be seen, and he should be there. So, let’s leave that for the time being, and move on.

In the middle of all this is Newton Pulsifer. He oddly arrives in the office, destroys the electrical system, then leaves before the war begins. And there is an even odder follow-up exchange in the car park of the office as he departs. I had to ask why - why add this in?

[It should be noted, at this point in the discussion, that while the paintball fight was written in the original book, the office scene that is the prelude to the fight, and the scenes with Newt that I’m about to discuss, weren’t. They are from the tv series only.]

I have been building up a library of notes and screenshots to help me with my metas, and Newt and Anathema have been on my radar. I came across this screen shot of Newt lying on Anathema’s bed after his accident in Tadfield and went “Huh, he looks very Crowley-coded there with this black/grey clothes and yellow and red socks. That’s not the line I of thought I had been following..”

I kept going and then @ennas-aesthetic posted this meta about Jesus in S3 and mentioned that Anathema was an Aziraphale parallel, so that would make Newt a corresponding Crowley parallel – which would explain the screen shot mentioned. Then the final pieces for this meta were these two posts, one from @mouseonamoose about their thoughts on angel!Crowley and one from @cornchrunchie on part of the exchange between Aziraphale and angel!Crowley in Before the Beginning, at the start of S2E1. I’d already had a thought about another set of lines in this part that formed a parallel to Newt, but getting a second set of lines to tie it in to this S1E2 segment was a bonus, I must say.

So where am I going with all this rambling? Right. Let’s get down to business.

Hopefully by now I’ve established that one of Newt’s roles in the office scene that sets up the rebellion is to be not just a parallel to Crowley, but a mirror – he’s kind of the opposite, in a way. It’s like they are on opposite sides of the looking glass.

At the beginning of S2E1 we are shown angel!Crowley, the Starmaker – the Engineer. And what is Newt supposed to be? A computer engineer. Only, angel!Crowley engineers light, while Newt engineers darkness. Everywhere Newt goes, he turns out the lights. Which is why when he runs into Shadwell shortly after and is given the newspaper advert that declares “ASSISTANT REQUIRED TO COMBAT THE FORCES OF DARKNESS” if he joins the Witchfinder Army that I was cackling at the irony of this. Perhaps we’d better not get sidetracked with that though.

There’s a critical point here that I’d like to highlight that I noticed, and how I made the link, because it may have implications in the future, maybe in S3. In Before the Beginning, Crowley sets everything up to get the nebula started, then there is a slight pause.

Az: …is something meant to happen? Cr: Oh, right, sorry, yes yes. Knew I'd missed one. Let there be light.

It struck me that Newt’s efforts in making anything with electricity, the modern source of light, don’t work because he doesn’t check that he’s got everything right. He blacks out his neighborhood as a child without checking the circuits, he shuts down the entire office without checking his work.

Why would you need both light and dark? You can't really have one without the other. It's the yin and yang. Its balance. To see the light you need darkness. And to see shadows you need light.

So we get a short scene of Newt heading off to office, with his Almighty mother handing out some lunch rations, and wishing him luck. Hmm. He’s holding a box that contains, amongst various things, a pot plant (a bromeliad) with a deep red flower, for all love. Ngggkgk.

At the office, Newt is given the cold shoulder by the senior co-worker opposite him (I call her “Pearls,” because I don’t have the S1 script book and I’m not sure what she’s called.) She asks his name, but never offers hers. Sounds familiar, where have we seen that before…?

Az: Um, hello. I'm Aziraphale. Cr: Nice meeting you. Okay, here goes!

@mouseonamoose mentions that angel!Crowley wouldn't feel the need to mention his name if he was a high ranking angel here, he would expect other angels to know who he was. [op adds another item to their list of pointers to angel!Crowley being a senior Archangel...it's up to 18, btw. Yes, I know its only fanon at the moment...] Just like the Supreme Archangel "fucking" Gabriel hasn't got time for a bit of social chit-chat before Aziraphale!Crowley is supposed to be executed in the hellfire in S1E6. Just get on it with it, pleb! We've got better things to do with our time!

Outside, we see Newt has been given his marching orders. He's leaving already. A sharply dressed woman in a masculine-cut suit approaches quickly. I don't know about you, but she looks like a demon to me. Black suit, red hair, pink (which is a tint of red) shirt - she's a copy of Crowley. This is another Crowley-copy about to give some internal criticism to a Crowley-mirror.

"Need a hand, Dick?"

Then she power-walks past. Newt is not even worth her time stopping for.

*Snort* - and ouch. That's a below-the belt joke.

She's just called him a wanker. In the US you might use the term jerk instead. Someone who's a bit egotistical and more in it for themselves than others. (and I never thought I'd be fact-checking the meaning of this word ever, but there's always a first time...) She's basically just equated him Gabriel, in my book (and in more ways than one.)

That doesn't sound like the Crowley we know, does it? Maybe, maybe not - but it does reveal to us a world of information about what the other demons think about Crowley, and more importantly perhaps it gives a hint of what he was like pre-Fall and why he was cast out as a sacrifice for the team, a scapegoat and example for the losing faction, in addition to the asking of questions reason.

It's quite notable that Crowley doesn't have any other demon friends or allies, even after 6000 years. Plus, he seems to have gotten special treatment during that time. Furfur complains about this in the dressing room in 1941, remarking :

"No, what's ridiculous is demons like you doing what they please. And somehow still getting on, while demons like me graft for hundreds and hundreds of millennia and never get a sniff of a promotion! Well, not this time. Expect a Legion to come for you first thing tomorrow. Enjoy your last night on Earth."

Hastur calls him "Mr Slick," and thinks he's been up on the surface of the Earth too long. And you kind of get the idea that Lord Beelzebub is holding back their hand somewhat in their conversation in S2E1 when they summon Crowley down to Hell for a little chat about the missing Gabriel.

CROWLEY: [waving flies away] Augh. Oh, I thought we had a [spits out flies] generalized understanding. BEELZEBUB: We don't. You're still a traitor. I could put a price on your head any time I wanted to.

But they haven't put a price on Crowley's head. And they don't intend to. Crowley is still being given the special treatment. Also in that particular conversation is a hint that he was once on a similar footing to Beelzebub, and Beelzebub was also a high ranking angel before the Fall - they aren't Grand Duke of Hell and Satan's right-hand demon for no reason.

Its ever-so subtle, but its there. Those traces of privilege we were pointing out that Gabriel and Beelzebub flaunt when they abscond? Once upon a time Crowley had them too. But the passing millennia has slowly worn them away until we can barely see the traces of it. Although, it still shows up occasionally.

We should finish off the scene back in S1E2 with Newt, though, because he does show us s little bit more of our mirror-Crowley in the car park scene. As the demon-lady walks past him he calls after her:

"My name's not actually Dick, it’s the car's name. You can ask me why if you like."

Aww. Poor Newt. While Crowley was stopped from asking questions, and cast from Heaven because he wanted to ask questions, his mirror-character Newt is offering to answer questions for other people. It's just that they aren't interested in doing that either. Either way, the conversation stops, doesn't it.

To finish off, I'm going to leave you with this. I know, its about Newt not being a computer engineer, but since we've been discussing how Newt is a mirror-parallel to Crowley, perhaps it's something we need to tuck away in the back of our minds for S3 as well, when the past comes back to haunt us.