#it just results in misinformation and such a toxic fanbase

[chaoticlandworlder]

Something so devasting abt realising a blog that u sometimes reblog from actl fervently hates one of your faves

[swiftcry]

A few years too late, and you may not even remember, but I want to say it: You were right. The Elena of Avalor fanbase DID have issues it refused to acknowledge. They instead swept them under the rug under the guise of being "drama free." The main ones being (for me) poor fandom dynamics where only a handful of creators ever got proper feedback (and when anyone brought this up they were seen as "attention seeking"), and an intense pressure to fit in based on those popular people's opinions. Maybe no one was outright mean or hateful, but the vibe of "well that's YOUR opinion" just was not it. Because it was done in such a dismissive way where those on the "outside" (rarepair shippers, new writers, people with different headcanons than the popular, etc.) felt ignored and their content unwanted. Also, the canon "all-but-confirmed" confirmation of Gabe and Naomi as a thing just RUINED the fandom. Change my mind.

(For the record, I will not mention and do not want to speak about certain other aspects of shipping due to my personal stance that disagrees with yours. I'd rather let that lie.).

That's it. That is all I wanted to say. You were right and many of us needed a few years removed from it to see it.

Thank you so much for this message! It means a lot. I do remember it well. And probably will for a long time.

I’ve always been a fan of more obscure things, and so as a result,  I’ve always been a member of smaller fandoms. The atmosphere in Elena’s fandom was so contrary to every other similar sized fandom I had ever been in. And it was sad.

In other places, due to just how few of us there were, basically anything and everything was appreciated. Even the weird stuff. Because dang it, it was content. There were multiple interpretations of the lore. Multiple ships. And while there were ‘leaders’, they weren’t decidedly totalitarian in their treatment of others. The best leaders were the ones who encouraged new ideas, stopped misinformation and generally just were cool people. 

I of course came to the Elena fandom a little late but in part for research, in part morbid curiosity I read a lot of old posts throughout the fandoms lifespan. I saw a lot of concerning things. I saw how anyone who criticized Elena as a character in any way got shut out. You could literally see fandom drop-off points where something big would happen in the show, and people who didn’t like whatever it was (re: Dreamcatcher) would try to talk about it before being shut down, especially for defending Esteban. The Dreamcatcher lockdown I’m pretty sure shrank the fandom in half. 

Dude the all but confirmed ships thing fills me with a rage too!

I hatttteeeeee Mateo x Carla so much it's literally my main notp from the show and the finale did it to them too.

Granted, Eleteo was so popular with the big wigs that obviously that one got the slide.

But any other options for Gabe and Naomi were out.

Estenaomi? Elenaomi? Gabeisa? Gabela? Any other combos I’m not thinking of?

Nope! 

(Totally ok! I have a guess as to which it is and while I don’t ship it, it’s chill!)

I personally was a quiet shipper of Marzel and Elena; he struck me as the in-between of Mateo and Gabe that gave her the best of both worlds. 

I have ranted a lot about the toxicity of the fandom to close friends. What got me the most was the gaslighting of people and the regular blatant lying or dismissive behavior. 

There was one gif that was made that was meant to show that ‘blaze isn’t a kill spell’ in a ‘so random coincidence not related to me’. It was from when Shurikki got her wand back and what happened in the show was that blaze hit her wand not Shurikki. 

But the gif was misleading. It took out a frame from the show in order to make it look like blaze hit Shuriki instead of her wand. It made me so fucking angry. 

But I refused to call them on it. Because I even doubted it myself. Because that’s what kind of control these so called ‘leaders’ had on the Elena narrative and discourse.

So instead I just put the actual clip in my second video. 

My favorite thing was how they never directly spoke to me but instead tried to pretend I didn’t exist while ‘so randomly’ addressing the stuff I bring up in either of my videos. 

It was sad.

They were a lot of sad sad women who were definitely lonely.

I lost all sympathy though when they started bullying the younger generation of fans who started appearing and had different takes on the show.

Like the laughability of it all, these millennial women getting angry at the actual intended audience for having a different opinion then them. 

I could keep going, but basically,

Hang in there cowboy. There’s always more fandoms and now you know the warning signs.

Thanks for the message!

[calamitydaze]

Ro Ramdin video out ! At the halfway mark and it's. Pretty okay.

alright, i finally watched it! goddamn you guys weren’t lying that was a heavy hitter. tldr below the cut since it was an Hour of pretty dense commentary so even the summary is long, but i very much recommend watching it in full

i liked it a lot! i’ve never watched her content before before but ro is funny as hell and it was a very well put together and engaging video. i really appreciated the balance she struck between being firm and empathetic, and that she took care to separate criticism of dream from criticism of his fanbase. i took some issues with the first half, mainly in the misinformation department (not super important, but quite a few little things that i felt were incorrect/lacking in detail/misrepresented), and i think it was a flaw to so heavily lean on data taken from a survey you had to dm her to get. i don’t blame her for that though, inaccuracies are to be expected when talking about a community she’s not part of and given how quickly she made this video i can understand relying on secondhand accounts instead of really diving in herself

the second half is where it really cuts deep and i found it SO refreshing for someone to actually look into why and how dream’s fandom came to be the way that it is instead of just endless criticism and talking down to them. i especially enjoyed the section where she talked about how insular and reactionary and hard to reach dream stans are, not because they hate everyone else but because everyone hates them. it’s something i’ve thought for over a year and when i saw her put it so eloquently i was like YES!!!! i said before i watched it that i’m pretty self-aware about my parasociality and why i feel the way i do, and i still like to think i’m not super guilty of her main critiques, but even then it honestly left me with a lot to think about and reassess. particularly the point about how stans seek reassurance from each other to get the moral green light to keep being in the community— it both hit me like “oh shit. i do that” and felt a little close to home in some of the asks i’ve been answering. i’m more than happy to continue comforting people and fostering a less hostile (and hopefully more balanced) discussion, but i hope people don’t see me as some sort of moral compass that tells you it’s okay to still watch dream. i’ve tried to be clear that it’s just a discussion and you should come to a personal conclusion that feels moral and comfortable to you AND THIS FEELS VERY SELF-IMPORTANT IM SORRY but i wanted to say it

so yeah! good video, it was sad to see how nervous ro was to upload it but from what i know the response has been positive so i hope she’s doing well. definitely worth a watch, i’d love to have a conversation with her tbh

tldr:

- even though the twitlonger was an off-the-cuff response, the repeated focus on how the allegations are “harmful to real victims” feels insincere and misdirecting

- the “gorgeous as fuck” snapchat is enough for her to deem the situation inappropriate and heavily question whether he’s handling his fanbase in a responsible manner

- survey takers were overwhelmingly neurodivergent and queer (and about 1/2 and 1/4 trans and poc respectively) and that might be a reason why people stay even if the community becomes toxic, because it’s still a safe space in that regard that’s hard to find elsewhere

- she talked about how self-isolated dream fans are in comparison to most fandoms as a result of continuous harassment and ridicule, and how this creates an “us against the world” mentality that makes it even harder to see when potential misdeeds occur

- the thing she most takes issue with about the fandom is the seeming lack of personal values that people hold above all else, aside from basic leftist stances on things like race and war

- when levied against other fans, accusations of racism and sexual harassment are an insta-block but creators get a grace period, because the space they take up in our lives is larger— but the more you sacrifice your personal values to get permission to continue enjoying a thing the easier it gets to keep doing it

[alastanor]

Hazbin Hotel Crash Course for New Fans

I am creating this post with the idea that with all the misinformation out there, that perhaps this will serve as a kind of resource for those just beginning in the fandom. And perhaps, in some regard, it can serve as an FAQ for others. I will mostly be covering Hazbin Hotel and lightly touching on Helluva Boss as the spin-off it is.

Who created Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss?

This is an important first question. The creator of both shows is none other than our Mistress of Miscreants and Mischief, Vivienne "Vivziepop" Medrano. She is a Salvadoran-American artist and animator that was born and raised in Maryland and studied at the School of Visual Arts in New York City, graduating in 2014.

Vivienne has worked on previous projects like the comic Zoophobia, an animated music video of one of her characters from that series on her channel she credits for giving her channel a subscription boost. Other works include Too Loud, a project she worked on for DreamworksTV with Hunicast host Ashley Nichols.

Vivzie is currently working as creator, director, lead animator, lead writer, storyboard artist, character designer, all for both shows, and the producer of Helluva Boss.

What is Hazbin?

Hazbin, short for Hazbin Hotel, is an American animated musical comedy series for adults that aired it's pilot on Youtube on October 28, 2019. The show focuses on the theme of redemption and consequences and by August 2020, had earned a solid fanbase and had accumulated nearly 50 million views. A goal it later accomplished in December of the same year. As a result, Hazbin was picked up from television production by A24. As of this post, no information regarding production or a release date is currently known. The show currently has comics of Angel Dust and Alastor on the official website.

What is Helluva Boss?

Helluva, also called Helluva Boss, is a spin-off series set in the same universe as Hazbin Hotel, with a different cast of characters. Vivziepop has described both shows sharing the same setting, but having different concepts behind their story focus. Unlike Hazbin Hotel, Helluva Boss is still a project being created entirely by Freelance artists and is not restricted in it's voice actor casting. Because Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss share the same universe, details regarding Hell and how it functions are sometimes expanded upon in Helluva Boss. The show itself is it's own separate entity, however, and should not be lumped in with Hazbin.

What Does A24 Picking Up Hazbin Hotel Mean?

As previously mentioned, unlike Helluva Boss, Hazbin Hotel was picked up for production and distribution through major media channels by A24. A24 distributes to channels like HBO, TruTV, and Showtime but they also distribute to streaming services like Netflix and Hulu.

Hazbin Hotel could launch on HBO, Showtime, Hulu, or Netflix. But as of right now, that information is unknown. What we do know, however, is that Hazbin Hotel will not continue on Youtube. The pilot shall remain there but the first season will air elsewhere.

A24 picking up Hazbin also means the voice acting talent is more restricted, actors are required to be apart of the voice over union. This means some actors who played parts in the pilot of the show will no longer be present in the first season. Examples of this happening include, allegedly, Jill Harris who played Charlie in the pilot. The state of other voice actors remaining are unknown, however when asked by concerned fans on Twitter and again on his Twitch, Ed Bosco who voices Alastor responded he "was going nowhere."

Previous freelance artists, such as Ashley Nicols, are also no longer working on Hazbin Hotel. The same is true for many other talents who previously worked on the show. As a result, they have no idea as to the state of Hazbin's production and are unable to comment. Even Vivzie herself is unable to comment much to the state of Hazbin, however Vivzie has stated that the project is very close to her heart which leads many to believe the project is still in the works. It has simply been given a very tight lid against leaked information.

Cast of Hazbin Hotel

In this section of the post, I will be exploring each character, what we know about each character from a fully canonical perspective (and not the soft canon or outdated information that unfortunately lingers on the fan wiki).

Charlie Magne

Charlotte Magne, or "Charlie," is a compassionate yet naive princess of Hell who believes the reformation of sinners in Hell will help solve Hell's overpopulation crisis. It is an idea that has gotten her mocked, scorned, and laughed at many times. Nonetheless, she is stubborn and capable of handling herself when necessary. Charlie was voiced by Jill Harris in the pilot, with Elsie Lovelock as the singing voice.

Vaggie

Vagatha, more commonly known as Vaggie, is a sinner of Hispanic ethnicity short on patience yet displayed as one of the more sensible and prudent of the Hazbin cast. She is a lesbian and the girlfriend of Charlie Magne. She is also the manager of the Happy Hotel. For an unknown reason, she has a distrust towards men. Vaggie is believed to have died in 2014. She is voiced by Monica Franco in the pilot.

Angel Dust

Angel Dust, whose true name was revealed by Vivziepop to be Anthony, is a gay adult film star and voluntary guinea pig of the Happy Hotel. He uses the hotel as a free living space, and doesn't take Charlie's experiment of demon rehabilitation very seriously when we first meet him in the pilot. Angel Dust was a member of a strict Italian crime family, and died of an overdose in 1947. He is voiced by Michael Kovach in the pilot.

Alastor

Alastor is a part-Creole Louisiana native who mysteriously died in 1933. He is so nicknamed "The Radio Demon" for how he tore down Hell's original overlord hierarchy and broadcast his carnage throughout Hell. He demonstrates the voice and mannerisms of an old radio host, and is amiable, gentlemanly (in most situations), and polite. Despite this, he is a known cannibal, has been stated to have been a serial killer in life, and is described as asexual though Vivziepop is keeping his romantic orientation a secret. Alastor is voiced in the pilot by Edward Bosco.

Husker

Husker is a grumpy, sarcastic, and unenthusiastic pansexual alcoholic with a gambling problem. He is the front desk clerk and bartender of the Happy Hotel, mysteriously believed to have died in the 1970s. Not much else is known about Husker. He is voiced by Mick Lauer in the pilot.

Niffty

Niffty is the spontaneous, easily entertained and excitable housekeeper of the Happy Hotel. She displays being a bit boy crazy and a strong dislike for messes. Niffty is believed to have died in the 1950s, but not much more is known about her. She was voiced in the pilot by Michelle Marie.

Cherri Bomb

Cherri Bomb is the self-confident and daring cyclops demon from Australia with a penchant for explosives. She is a best friend and partner in crime to Angel Dust, believed to have died in the 1980s. Not much else is known about her. She is voiced in the pilot by Krystal LaPorte.

Other Characters

Other characters not mentioned, such as Sir Pentious, Mimzy, Baxter, and others are not mentioned because they have either not yet appeared and therefore are still prone entirely to soft canon, or even less is known about them than what has been shown above.

What is soft canon?

Soft canon, for ease of this post, is the word I am using for canon that is not official canon. And what this means is that it has not been solidified by the show or has not been reconfirmed since after the pilot by Vivzie as canon.

Vivzie herself has admitted to changing her mind on things (such as Alastor no longer being afraid of dogs), or adding things last minute (such as Cherri being Australian). Until either of these things happen, old information that predates the pilot should not be taken as infallible, solidified canon.

Response to Hazbin Hotel and About Fandom

The overall response to Hazbin Hotel has largely been positive. Within a mere few months, Hazbin's pilot accumulated views in the millions, and has ignited inspiration, creativity, and passion in dozens of fans.

However, there exists a loud minority on social media who believe Hazbin is harmful to the LGBTQ+ community due to the portrayal of characters in sex work, and other characters reduced to minority stereotypes.

Others believe it is sick and wrong to portray sins as something cute or sexy, and that Hazbin Hotel is an abuse of talent.

Others simply think the humor is not "adult enough" for them, and that the show is too childish.

These beliefs have ignited passionate discussions and arguments from both sides throughout multiple forms of social media.

Of course, there are also issues with those who claim to be fans of Hazbin Hotel. Those who display entitlement, and essentially ruin it for others. There have been those who have bombarded VA Twitch streams and demanded the VA do their voice request, which unfortunately makes the fandom less enjoyable for them.

There are also those who demand things from Vivziepop and other people they believe to be apart of the project. Regardless if they still are or not. These people make the interactions between fandom and artists more unpleasant and toxic. These people, unfortunately, think that because they have access to communication with creators, that it entitles them to make demands. It does not, but it paints fandom in a bad light and drags down the mental health of the artists working on Hazbin.

Others make social media posts highlighting their entitlement and lack of understanding.

The reason I bring up these people is in the hopes that, those new fans reading this, will think twice about acting the same way. Or stop someone who may.

Where to Find More Information

This is something that should be emphasized, and that is that the wiki can be used but the information on the fan wiki should be taken with a grain of salt.

Vivziepop has stated before that the fan wiki is outdated, and much of the other information that is confirmed canon is mixed in with old information and fan theory that has been perpetuated as canon. Making the majority of what exists on the wiki "soft canon."

If you are interested in finding more accurate sources of information, options include gaining access to Vivziepop's discord through her Patreon.

Following Vivziepop and the VAs on social media (this does not mean you should pester them for information), as well as tuning into any social media channels A24 may have.

Occasionally you will get snags of information pertaining to Hazbin through the grapevine on the Hunicast discord, however that is much more sparse and less likely given that Ashley Nichols is no longer affiliated with the Hazbin project.

Things for Fans

So you have watched the Pilot dozens of times now, and are looking for things to do that will tide you over until more information surrounding Hazbin is released. Or better yet, until Hazbin's first season is released.

Well, here are some options to consider.

1. Have you ever considered making a sinner OC or an Impsona? An Impsona is more in line with Helluva Boss, but it is still the same universe. Designing an OC and concocting how they would fit in the world is time consuming, and fun to think about.

2. If you have some spare cash floating around, how about supporting one of the community's artists and commissioning them for some art of your OTP, your OC, or your favorite character doing something interesting?

3. Consider reading more information floating around, things that other fans have noticed in Helluva Boss or Hazbin Hotel. Things such as theories based on behaviors and habits seen in the pilot, or in the comics. Headcanons are fun too, but sometimes people can perpetuate them as canon. Remember what makes something canon, so you can distinguish between theory and headcanon.

4. Enjoy Helluva Boss and it's expansion of the world and universe.

5. Engage in the occasional streams, events, merch dumps, and print signings perpetuated by Vivziepop to help keep interest in Hazbin alive.

6. Watch the Pilot and ADDICT music video just because you can and you have a mental stimulation craving.

7. If you are the creative type, you can create your own art or fanfiction of the characters you enjoy most.

8. Some members of the fan community have made fan comics, you could search those.

9. Watch the old Hunicasts on youtube, but remember that again Ashley is no longer affiliated with Hazbin, they are no longer allowed to do Hazbin streams, and the VAs cannot do voice requests. So if you attend a live Hunicast expecting there to be Hazbin, you will be disappointed. Regardless, the old Hunicasts are entertaining and fun, and can ease some of the Hazbin cravings.

10. Watch some of the animatics created from some of the funniest moments from the Hazbin Hunicasts on Youtube.

Let me know if I missed anything, but this was essentially me trying to put essential information for newer fans to the community all in one place. Hope it helps.

[holdharmonysacred]

Argument proposal: The “Miku made this” meme, besides just being a vastly overused and inappropriately used meme warped from an act of fans reclaiming media created by toxic creators to fans completely ignoring that toxic creators made things they like, is problematic for the other reason that it is a continuation of the Vocaloid fanbase’s longstanding problems with properly crediting artists.

Vocaloid fans are notorious for stealing and reposting content without giving credit to producers and PV artists, instead literally crediting tracks to the Vocaloids themselves, like “World is Mine by Hatsune Miku” rather than “World is Mine by Ryo from the band Supercell featuring Hatsune Miku”, and as a result a lot of composers, producers, illustrators, movie makers, and fanartists have gotten little to no recognition for their work even as it skyrockets to icon status (we’ve all seen that one Rolling Girl PV, but how many people actually know that that PV is a fan video by akiakane, and the real official PV for wowaka’s song is a still image?). This also causes massive headaches for fans of more story-based Vocaloid tracks, such as the work of mothy/Akuno-P, who now have to work to counteract years of misinformation and errors caused by the uncredited theft of fan video content that people are convinced is official canon. In particularly extreme cases, the constant theft and miscrediting has caused producers like wowaka to leave the community (and indeed, Unknown Mother Goose is a deeply personal song wowaka wrote for miku’s 10th birthday about how deep down he still wants to try making Miku songs again even after years worth of trauma caused by fans not crediting him and recognizing him for his work).

The “Miku made this” meme, therefore, is another bad thing to add to this pile - it is the ultimate version of the Vocaloid fandom’s extremely bad habits of not crediting artists, but trying to present the attachment of songs solely to the Vocaloids and complete erasure of creators as a good thing by weaponizing it against bad creators. The meme is bad because it’s not just an attempt to deny responsibility for the media one consumes, but because it contributes to massive recurring problem of not crediting content creators.