#is this because of queerbait trauma?

[affableboar-zero]

Does anyone else do that thing where you'll get recommended a show because "it's queer! It has gay people in it!" And you go into it not expecting much, only for there to be queer representation and GOOD queer representation and you're sitting there like "woahhh....gay people in a show... that's crazy"

[voilaammayi]

us all, starting yet another one sherlock adaptation and telling ourselves it’s hope and not delusion to expect johnlock to happen maybe this time:

[topaziraphale]

"Stop saying Crowley won't help Aziraphale in S3 he'd go back to him in a HEARTBEAT and nothing would stop him" I get it no one likes the idea of Crowley being bitter after what happened for a long period of time but like can we at least acknowledge that he's currently going through probably the most emotional pain in his life since falling? Can we agree that he's opened his heart entirely - something you couldn't pay him to do unless the world is literally ending and he's desperate - to Aziraphale, and got shot down? Can we understand that he did it AGAIN only to lose Aziraphale again? Not that what Aziraphale did isn't without Crowley's own shortcomings (hiding the truth of Heaven's cruelty from him) but like,,,,

The appeal here isn't Scorned Crowley Doesn't Love Aziraphale Anymore, or Never Wants To Help Him Again, the appeal here is Crowley learning enough self respect to not just walk back right to Aziraphale like nothing happened after Aziraphale has had a pattern of consistently refusing him. Going years ping-ponging between "We're not friends I don't even know him" to "That's what friends are for right?" and "We're friends, why would you even say anything?" and "Friends? We're not friends. We are an angel and a demon!"

Like I get it, Crowley is a heartbreakingly forgiving person. Of course he's gonna forgive Aziraphale, I'll be surprised if he didn't forgive him by the time he walked out the bookshop door, but gdi he could at least grant himself the luxury of being at least a little irritated for longer than however long it takes to make a globe and some books float and angrily cry out to God in his flat. But due to the change of pace and dynamic that is establishing part of the conflict for Season 3, I just really like the idea of him for ONCE prioritizing himself and being like "Okay, fine. We'll get back at it when you're ready, then," instead of just taking Aziraphale back like his words and actions meant nothing to him, when clearly they have an effect on him.

What is Aziraphale going to learn if Crowley just accepts what he did so quickly, like he always has the entire time they've been friends? Idk maybe I'm just projecting too much darkness on their dynamic but I mean, if the pattern of Aziraphale pushing Crowley away/disrespecting him one day and then being fine with his friendship the next + Crowley never stopping to be like "Hey, that's not cool, at least give me a little credit" or smth was fine all along and will continue to be fine in the future, then why, after 6,000 years of being friends and loving this demon, can Aziraphale still not accept that Crowley is just fine the way he is, and instead got excited to promote him to an angel in a heartbeat once the opportunity presented itself? You can't blame all of it on Heaven when Aziraphale has demonstrated his free will/defiance to Heaven so many times. Or, I don't know, I guess maybe we can? Maybe I'm just craving too much angst to the point where I'm letting it cloud my analysis of canon. Idk.

[lunarharp]

good omens scribbles👼👼

thunder only happens when it's raining, heaven only loves you when they're playing...🎵

[the-knife-consumer]

"Yona was just added bc Nintendo wants people to stop shipping sidlink!" Literally what the hell are you talking about

[bauliya]

of the opinion that queerbaiting is a legitimate artform that can be wielded purposefully to great evocative effect (driving gay kids insane)

[batsarebetterthanpeople]

When all of your pirate mutuals succumb to the Gaimen angels derangement and you can't join in the fun because you just do not give a fuck about them 😔

[lenalvthor]

hey i have a fucking bone to pick with sapphic fandoms

like, i get it okay. i've been on tumblr since 2011, i was in the trenches during the bury your gays nightmare, i grew up on buffy, i watched the 100, i've been through the furious and devastating queerbaits, and i've watched helplessly as the boom of proper progress with sapphic rep has burned and disappeared with the faults of the industry as it is rn and the resurgence of bury your gays in the form of tv cancellations

i even did a fucking guest lecture for a film & tv university course a couple years ago on all of this

we joke about the fact that queer (specifically sapphic) fans flock to any show with the barest hint of rep in it because we're so starved for it, and we talk about the fact that if nothing else, that proves that there's a market and an audience and it usually creates a huge wave of viewership and attention for the show

but i need to fucking point out: acting as though a show exists for the sole purpose of the sapphic relationship you've started watching it for is fucking detrimental to how you'll perceive the show, how it'll get talked about in fandom spaces and then beyond that (bc the line between fandom spaces and wider online discussion of media is a lot thinner than it was ten years ago) and isn't actually going to do any good for sapphic rep! like, at all! because guess what! unless you're watching a show where the entire storyline revolves around romance, this couple you're watching for ISN'T going to be the centre of the story! it's a part of it! and there's such a weird fucking entitled toxicity to how fans act around brilliant storytelling and worldbuilding and writing and characters throwing tantrums about not getting more screentime for the relationship they like because they don't actually care about any other part of the story. and the thing about people who watch something solely for a ship rather than the wider story it exists in, is that a lot of the time, you'll fundamentally misinterpret the characters and their dynamic because you're not taking any of the wider context of the world and story into account at all.

and yes, of course i'm talking about agatha all along in the immediacy. because we knew a long, long time ago that billy maximoff was gonna be an integral part of this story, long before we knew anything about what the vibe of this show was gonna be, long before anyone even had the tiniest whisper of rio's existence. the same way wandavision was monica rambeau's origin story even though the show was wanda's, we suspected that agatha all along would be billy's/wiccan's origin story even if the show focused on agatha. and you know fucking what. that's good fucking storytelling. this show is smart, it's funny, it's curious, it's campy, it's queer, and it's ensemble. that's always been the point. agatha and rio were a delightfully unexpected part of it that added such delicious tension and phenomenal sapphic rep, but you know what else! the point of that dynamic is to flesh out agatha's character! this show isn't about agatha and rio! it's about agatha and billy, who they are, how their pasts and their magic are connected, their traumas and their power and how the road shapes their futures! rio is a part of exploring agatha's past, and it's phenomenal, but i am so fucking bewildered by the ridiculousness of people's reactions to billy now having a bigger part in the story and there being less focus on agatha and rio. you do know that you write scenes and characters and stories in a way that makes sense right? that because of the nature of this show, even if we don't get more than a handful agatha and rio scenes for the rest of the episodes, they're both still sapphic characters, this is still wonderful sapphic rep, and this show is still very, very queer?

like, it's obviously not fair that we have to beg for scraps to have queer shows to watch. but that doesn't mean that any of us get to do such a fucking disservice to the people who make amazing shows and fight to put sapphic rep in them within the contexts of the stories they're telling by whining that it's not enough. what we're getting with agatha all along, what kathryn han and aubrey plaza and jac schaeffer have said with such grace and nuance and intrigue and depth about agatha and rio's relationship, is so fucking rare! and it's nestled within a story that's got so much other intricate storytelling that makes agatha and rio richer characters when you actually pay some fucking attention and care about who they are outside of their sexual tension!

and i'm saying this because this is an issue i see with So many other shows, where the worth of a show gets boiled down to fandoms wanting content of their ship and nothing else and then poisoning the conversation and reception around what else it is that show is doing with its story. idk get some fucking media literacy, grow up and respect artists and creatives.

[alexwilltellyouthings]

Ok I have so many thoughts about painland ending up canon or not and I. Just.

Listen I AGREE that their bond goes beyond being romantic or not. It's obvious, it's beautiful, I love it and I love them and their friendship and I truly do think it is important that media has this kind of relationship portrayed.

But.

But.

I would be lying if I said I wouldn't be disappointed if it doesn't turn romantic. It involves a lot of things.

1: I want Edwin to have that. He'll still be happy without it, yes, but god can't he have that? He's been through so much. He had a speedrun through his sexuality issues and confessed in hell. Like wtf. Can't he have that???

2. Bisexual Charles would actually be so important to me. And yeah he can be bi and not in love with Edwin but come on lol. The thing is, there's not many bi men in media. Even less bi men figuring out their bisexuality. Even less bi men figuring out their sexuality when they were raised in the 80s and knowing their best friend is in love. Do you see how many layers exist here? How amazing his story could be? Charles has so much we still don't know about him. And yes, I would like that one of those things could be something I relate to. Besides trauma. Call me selfish. And like he's so bisexual coded it would be offensive for him to be straight I'm sorry.

3. They exist in other universes. Let them be platonic there. Let them be romantic this one time.

4. I know falling in love with a straight person is a very common story and I don't think it's wrong for it to happen in a show, but honestly, it's not what I sign up for when I'm watching queer stuff. Think Our Flag Means Death. It probably changed my brain chemistry because anything less than that gets really hard to swallow. I know, we all have queerbaiting trauma, and I know this wouldn't be the case, and it never claimed to be something as queer as OFMD. But I got so attached that... Well, I wouldn't stop watching if this happens, but it wouldn't sit well with me. It's a bitter feeling, you know?

5. They didn't have anything be explicit, but come on, they did set us up. Charles got jealous at Monty, and only Monty, for that matter. I wouldn't say his thing with the Cat King is necessarily jealousy, more like protectiveness, but that can be disputable. And both George and Jayden said more than once that Charles' response to the confession let things open. So I mean if that door wasn't closed, then please don't close it now! The road until things happen can be long, dramatic, tortuous, whatever, there's many ways to tell a love story. But if I'm sitting for it, then I don't want to get shot in the face later on (unless it's for plot reasons which ok).

6. Have I mentioned that bisexual Charles

Anyway I feel kinda bad for wishing so much they get romantic because I see and agree with the whole platonic discourse. But yeah those are all the reasons why I can't stop myself. Have a good day everyone

[shit-talker]

I saw someone in a TikTok comment saying they didn't really think DBD was that great of Queer rep because none of the ships actually ended up together at the end of S1. But here's the thing, Queer rep isn't always about gay couples - it's about the characters, and yeah, the easiest way to show a Queer character is putting them in a queer relationship, but that's not what it's all about.

I found DBD particularly fascinating because the queerness of these characters wasn't the main focus - it's not a romance, it's a teen drama that mainly focuses on character development (as seen with Edwin coming yo terms with his sexuality, Crystal overcoming her experience with her abusive ex, Charles dealing with the trauma of having an abusive parent, and even Niko dealing with contacting her mother and dealing with her father's death) it's about the relationships, but not necessarily in a romantic manner.

Charles and Edwin's relationship is one of the main focuses on the show, and yeah, eventually, they'll end up together, but they first have to get over these obstacles in their own internal lives. Charles has to be able to regulate and deal with his own emotions instead of repressing them, hiding them with humour, and eventually lashing out, and Edwin has to be comfortable in himself before he can be comfortable in a relationship - and they would be true if they were a straight or a gay couple.

Queer representation doesn't need to be the main focus of everything - if this were a romance, then yeah, maybe, but it isn't. I don't think any of the relationships in the show would have changed if they weren't queer and that's what representation is about. It's about breaking down these barriers that separate a gay couple from a straight couple. It's about showing that love isn't defined by a gender or whatever.

And it needs to be realistic. For me, watching shows like Heartstopper (I haven't seen all of it, I read the webcomic like 3 years ago, tho) it felt very surface level because it was almost like every plot point revolved around the characters being queer, and while I love that and think it's great for a younger queer audience (like 13/14) I think shows should focus less on making gay characters and couple to please an audience, and focus more on creating in depth meaningful characters who just so happen to be gay.

Shows like Good Omens, I feel did a great job with dealing with a queer narrative. It's not technically about a queer relationship as the main focus, and yet the audience is still able to pick up on it and catagorise it as queer media.

Is Dead Boy Detectives perfect in this regard? Of course not, no piece of media is perfect, but I do like how they've dealt with it.

People need to realise that shows can have an underlying queer narrative without queerbaiting or specifically stating so. In DBD, characters never state their sexuality because it doesn't matter to the show - not to mention two of the main characters are from periods of time where labels weren't a huge thing, or even known about but we are still able to pick up these context clues that point towards a preference for them.

[animentality]

the funny thing about the Black Butler revival is that Sebaciel is taking a lot of heat right now, here in the year of our lord and savior 2024, in which all ships are problematic and toxic.

because it's a pedo ship.

which is the most perfect low hanging fruit in all of anti existence.

but like, Sebaciel is really a microcosm of pro vs anti ship discourse in general, right?

everyone insists oh you like Sebaciel? you must be a pedophile... while totally ignoring that a lot of fucking teenage girls read Black Butler and imagine themselves AS CIEL. they have a crush on SEBASTIAN.

that's why they ship them. they're not generally lusting for the minor, they're imagining themselves as the minor, being MINORS themselves, and have crushes on the suave sexy demon guy... because that's literally budding adolescence in a nut shell.

Sure there are people who lust for ciel... but it's a fucking shonen. it's for teens.

Teens are allowed to have fucking crushes on Ciel and Naruto and Ichigo. They're also allowed to have crushes on adults, WHO ARE NOT REAL and can't return their affections or hurt them in literally any way other than fictional related trauma.

is it really that shocking that teens are projecting themselves on/lusting for the fucking kid protagonists? you know, like they're generally going to do??? because they're hormonal but also bc it's very normal for humans to have goddamn crushes on human shaped (and less human shaped) things???

and is it really that shocking that teens girls would lust after Sebastian?

are you telling them they can't do that, and then also ship their little self insert goth child with the object of their affection?

and also.

ALSO.

the harder thing for these people to swallow...

fucking adults can ship anything they want too.

literally who gives a fuck

just shipping a problematic age difference ship doesn't make you anything at all.

being an asshole in fandom spaces does, like harassing people for shipping or not shipping Sebaciel, sending death threats, doxing, whatever, but just the act of jerking it to Sebaciel fanfics, or writing them for yourself and friends, is not a goddamn crime.

nor is it anything other than a Catholic sin.

so I'm laughing at the modern discourse, as angry adults and teens try to cancel Sebaciel.

tale as old as time. but also Sebaciel is the fucking OG.

The og of queerbait shotacon nonsense.

you weren't gonna stop people in 2008, you won't stop them now.

just hang out in your own space and leave other people alone.

also just fyi. I don't ship this.

I ship toxic old man yaoi.

but I'm rolling my eyes and slapping you if I see you in the wild insisting a Sebaciel artist is a pedophile guilty of a real crime in real life.

get some fucking perspective.

[piratecaptainscaptainpirates]

After some reflection, I think the people that keep coming into the tags saying that OFMD sucks because it's just "queerbaiting" are genuinely working on the assumption that we're exaggerating about what's actually in the show.

I mean, if you'd told me even five years ago that my favorite show now would actually care so much about the relationship between the main (gay, interracial) couple? That we'd get many on-screen kisses and be told that they have sex? That the other characters frequently have queer sex that is fulfilling, satisfying, and emotionally important to them? That there's a nonbinary character who is treated with nothing but respect? That the characters have a drag show where it's depicted as fun and joyful? That the main character's relationship is depicted as a very human relationship without relying on gay trauma or other tired stereotypes, and they prove they love each other at every turn?

Yeah, I probably would've assumed you were exaggerating, too. There's not a lot of other shows like this one, especially not ones that are about middle-aged men and include people of color and with different body types. On the surface it really does look too good to be true!

[ann3ofabyss4lred]

SPOILERS FOR CLSSS OF 09: FLIPSIDE..

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I'm disappointed in flipside...was worth it show us foot fetish? Jecka being s3xu4lly traff1cked? Like they didn't implied it ..they showed her half naked..very draw in detail..they showed her body naked when she off herself. Nicole sitting and putting her feet on Jecka's dad's mouth????....it was misery p0rn...it also feel like the creator disliked how much people were saying "oh the girls are so cool".. like they wanted to criticized men but also paint the girls from using men as hypocrites?? So they butchered their characters?..Idk..now looking back at it..there were things that I disliked about the first game...but didn't see right well with me... Like there are red flags..even if Nicole is really depressed and Jecka too. They acted like "I want to be d3pr3ssed..I'm making a d3pr3ssed playlist on iTunes" "if I fake this disorders" u know for the audience to laugh at them as if they weren't really depressed...(not saying they aren't..NICOLE AND JECKA ARE REALLY DEPRESSED) ..but there's q lots of people ..that believe girls love to pretend they have disorders...as misogynistic and ableist it is..some people think that way..that's why they put it there as humor...

I think they had luck on flipside because instead of saying "ha they hypocrites,many girls empathized with the fictional girls in some way..or don't feel them bad about those men being used...because they were bad and they still see the girls as victims...even if they aren't good people" and they didn't shame Nicole for being misandrist and was always proven right.

I don't know how to redact this shit..it does feel like they criticized society...but also...get off on misandrist girls....and many stuff feels for shock value..more than actual criticizing or creative comebacks...

In flipside is basically disguised fetish...and do have in mind some men get off misandrist girls..(aside from the real valid reason to be misandrist like s3xu4l trauma) like some boys and men get off or also mock (or both) women reduce them to "u guys only play videogames and do anything thing for s3x".

So just disappointed in the game.i did got bad vibes on the first game..but didn't see about it..also we got queerbaited with Jecka and Ari...and have in mind this written by a weirdo and a man..

Also the joke of "was it q Pakistani or Palestinian Man traff1cking me" was not it..

Maybe I'll do q post explaining why flipside was disguised fetish and why I got those vibes from the first game but not very high..

Still love Jeckole and any girl pairing there..except Nicole and Ari...

READ THE REBLOG...THERES SHITTY THINFS ABOUT THE CREATOR

[genericpuff]

Was the Hera×Echo thing for real?! Was it like planned??? It doesn't feel like it was planned! It feels like Rachel just wanted to queerbait to gather more new readers wtf

yeah it's exactly that tbh

FASTPASS SPOILERS AHEAD !!!

like what more realistically happened is she saw people headcanon'ing Echo and Hera and went "yeah sure I'll do that!" without actually writing the fucking relationship.

This was even a problem back in S2 with Echo's character as a whole, she's introduced as this mysterious 'double agent' character who's almost definitely working for Zeus-

-but then aside from two scenes involving Echo accompanying Hera to the motel to retrieve Persephone's things and Echo warning Daphne that Apollo clearly isn't 'over Persephone' (because he had, y'know, barged into Hera's office demanding Hera's blessing) the whole "Echo is a double agent for Zeus" thing was only confirmed after Daphne was turned into a tree and Echo said "FUCK YOU ZEUS, I'M NOT GONNA DO YOUR DIRTY WORK ANYMORE!" which ... huh? Where's the plot? It feels like there was an entire story there that just got dumped entirely so that Hades and Persephone could play golf with diamonds.

Like this was presumably where Echo ditched her obligation to Zeus, but it had nothing to do with Hera, it was because she heard (I'm assuming from Thanatos) what happened to Daphne.

After that we only ever see Echo again when it's implied that her and Hera had some kind of falling out. No idea what over, maybe it was Hera finding out that Echo was a double agent, maybe Hera called her a slur, we have no clue what. But it's sorta just tacked on during an ongoing monologue about how Kronos has affected her.

The only other 'hint' we got towards it was Ares calling Echo Hera's 'girlfriend' but that doesn't mean a whole lot when we've literally never seen these two have more than two scenes together.

So now Rachel making them kiss feels more like her taking credit for writing a plotline that doesn't exist and was fabricated entirely in the audience's headcanon. And this is something Rachel does a lot, she basically relies entirely on her audience filling in the blanks for her nothingburger plot and then of course gets to take all the credit for being a "smart and inclusive writer". Where? Literally where the fuck is the actual writing?

Imagine if we had gotten a proper B-plot showcasing the relationship between Echo and Hera. Echo is working for Hera as a double agent and doesn't want to blow her cover, while Hera is suspicious because she worries her husband is up to something. Over time they work together, grow closer, Hera realizes that Echo makes her feel a kind of happiness that Zeus hasn't made her feel in a long time, Echo realizes that she can't keep lying to Hera about why she was hired and decides she values Hera's loyalty and respect over Zeus' because she has feelings for Hera now. Maybe Hera finds out about Echo being a double agent, either by overhearing a conversation between Echo and Zeus or because Echo outright tells her, and eventually it resolves with them finally admitting their feelings towards one another and Hera realizing that she's felt trapped in a loveless marriage that's essentially serving the same purpose as her union with Kronos, sacrificing her well-being for the good of a King. They kiss and Hera confronts the original perpetrator of her trauma, Kronos, ready to end the cycle of her abuse once and for all.

Like, the plot is right fucking there but Rachel keeps dumping it in favor of focusing on the boring ass heterocis nightmares that are Hades and Persephone, who get SO MUCH FUCKING SCREENTIME of just telling each other how amazing they are and how much they're in love (meanwhile we didn't even actually get to see or hear what Hera wrote in the letter to Echo, we have to just assume) but still tries to take credit for writing queer stories by just vaguely hinting at a queer relationship that has had zero development or actual screentime. It's Hestia and Athena all fucking over again.

It also doesn't bode well for LO passing the whole "bury your gays" test because Hera is literally marching to what she's expecting to be her death. So she's established as a bisexual character, just for her to be sent to her death, while Echo will undoubtedly get shoved out of the plot again.

And, I shouldn't even have to remind y'all of this, but Hera has been racist to nymphs in the past and Echo was her direct subordinate, her personal assistant.

It just makes zero sense to me why Rachel would suddenly force in a queer relationship between two characters who weren't traditionally gay in the original myths (once again removing the queer aspects of CANONICALLY LGBTQ+ GODS AND GIVING THEM TO THE STRAIGHTS INSTEAD) when Hera's story had more than enough to work with through her trauma from both Kronos and Zeus and her loyalty as the goddess of marriage that's kept her trapped in a loveless and abusive relationship. So now instead of having a subplot that could have been about the goddess of marriage realizing that no one should have to stay in a marriage that's robbing them of joy and the "sanctity of marriage" isn't worth being miserable for life, we have a subplot where the goddess of marriage who is racist to nymphs routinely cheats on her husband and now confesses her love to a nymph who we never even saw her interact with outside of two instances where it was simply a working relationship.

[wellofdean]

Thinking about @luckshiptoshore and her liveblog of watching Supernatural and how much I love following it and how great it is to watch someone just fucking ENJOY the show...

And then, there were a couple of people in my Discord who love the fic, but have never watched the show, and folks in there were trying to convince them that it was worth watching (duh!) and that knowing the show by heart makes the fic so much better and like yes, again... DUH! And then I was suddenly overcome with such a feeling of ENVY for all the people who still have the chance to watch Supernatural for the first time already knowing what happens in the end.

I mean, I watched 14 years of it in real time (after downloading and bingeing season 1) and at least I was clever enough not to be in the fandom trenches that whole time, and just enjoyed it for what it was, but the end broke my brain, and changed the whole show for me.

Because, like, here's what happens in Supernatural by the end: Dean and Cas are in love. It was not subtle. Dean can't say it because he never has a single moment of not being up to his pretty, pretty eyeballs in dealing with the ongoing and constantly multiplying trauma of being the man his father raised him to be, and god's specialest boy to boot, but in the end, Cas finally does just fucking say it. Not only that, he waits until he can use it to save Dean, and show him once and for all in an incontrovertible, undeniable way exactly how deeply and truly loved and SEEN he is.

When you watch it knowing that, knowing that the the whole story is going to end in that stupid bunker dungeon with Cas telling Dean who he is and dying to save him, the whole thing just HITS DIFFERENT, because the Dean of season one with his outcast liminality and pretty, pretty lips is the poor, lonely, weird boy who will one day be loved like that by Castiel, an angel of the lord -- an impossible Eldritch being who learned what love and selfhood are from closely observing Dean.

The consensus amongst most Supernatural fans is that it is trashy and bad and that its all evil queerbaiting, but I would contend that it's actually deeply entertaining, culturally rich and interesting (yes, even its flaws and missteps), often impressively well-written and acted, never puts on any airs about being prestige television or high art, but still manages to be ultimately epic and somehow sublime, and that it's a queer story, about queer love saving the universe, and it is so, so worth watching.

Like, my brainworms are not 'they strung me along all that time and then never let them make out', by brainworms are 'they told us so many times and in so many big and small ways, and now I need to watch every bit of it again and again and again so I can finally REVEL IN IT (and, friends, that is the Supernatural rewatch journey: realising it was ALWAYS THERE). My brainworms aren't 'but does Dean reciprocate??' they are: 'of course he loves Cas, and of course Cas knows that Dean loves him, and the one thing Cas can't have? That's just his chance at happiness and a soft epilogue with and for Dean, because Cas, impossible, cosmic, Eldritch being Cas, traded his chance at happiness for his family's lives and sacrificed himself for love of his son and Dean, because that is what you do when you love someone, and what he has watched Dean never stop doing for even a minute of his beleaguered life.'

And then, Dean dies (yes, it's stupid), and he cannot just go to heaven, drink a beer and hang out, he needs to climb into his magic soul vehicle, hit the axis mundi and tear the universe up looking for his angel and his happy ending in The Winchesters? Fuck me.

And like, it's the most romantic, and devastating story I have ever been told? And I love it so much?

[kindlespark]

this is gonna be SO long and rambly sorry anyway i saw a post abt how babel does queer characters and it got me thinking abt why the tropes it uses would usually turn me off other stories but didn’t here

MAJOR BABEL SPOILERS //

i feel like i’d be more mad abt how robinramy ended up in babel if it marketed itself as queer lit at all or if its fans were going “WOW AMAZING QUEER REP” abt it. but no one told me any of that, so finding out they were gay was just a fun little bonus surprise to me. i get why ppl are eh abt robinramy not getting together/technically still being subtext (which i dont think is really true btw like the book literally says “robin was falling in love” but idk i guess if you were stupid you might’ve assumed that it was falling in love with oxford given how romantic some of the other language is (WHICH IS ALSO THE POINT bc i think robin’s friendship with ramy blurring into romance is why he romanticised like all his friendships/experiences in oxford BUT IM GETTING OFF-TOPIC)). i just think robin’s repression abt being gay was intrinsically tied to his attitudes on imperialism (wrt refusing to acknowledge anything that complicated his life until it was too late) and i don’t consider it a cop out or queerbait. like i genuinely don’t think robinramy could ever have gotten together without drastic alterations being made in terms of plot and character. plus i think it’s clear that kuang didn’t want to write a story with any kind of focus on romance at all, because it’s not that kind of book. there’s no successful het romance either, so it grates a lot less. the only reason romance is included at all is to show the ways in which white entitlement manifests. so the tragic way robinramy played out just made sense to me.

and i speak as someone who accidentally spoiled myself on You Know What in the middle of reading and i was like ugghh boooo dreading it the whole time expecting to roll my eyes when it happened but then when it did i was like. wow im actually not that mad LMFAO 😭😭😭 actually thematically the book sets it up so well that i believed that this was unfortunately the only way it could’ve gone. babel is about the loss and tragedy and grief that colonised people experience. it’s about the lengths people will go to to uphold empire and the lengths ppl will go to to tear it down like idk 😭 i guess it is bury your gays but it didnt bother me this time because i thought it fit thematically ❤️ i enjoy tragedy as a genre a lot and i would’ve made it gay anyway you know. thanks rf kuang for doing it for me so i didnt have to.

WHICH IS ALL TO SAY that i guess if you’re going into babel for the queer rep without appreciating that the story is fundamentally a tragedy it would feel like it’s just reusing tired tropes….. but i think the choices kuang made were rly deliberate and not in a way that feels like trauma porn or shock value. the book is fundamentally about the struggles of poc so the layer of queerness that was introduced felt like a subtle extension of the experiences of characters of colour in the book, and i enjoyed and related to it as a queer chinese person who kind of realised they had to prioritise their fight for the liberation of poc over queerness mainly because the idea of western queer liberation cannot be dissociated from imperialism and many aspects of homophobia as we know it was an export of christian european empire into our colonised countries in the first place and FUCK THIS IS A WHOLE OTHER TANGENT ABOUT HOW I THINK RAMY AS A CHARACTER IS EMBLEMATIC OF THE TENSION AND STRUGGLE THAT QUEER POC DIASPORA HAVE BETWEEN OUR IDENTITIES GODDAMNIT OK FORGET IT POST CANCELLED i just rly think babel’s handling of queer characters is fine and makes sense and i like it personally and maybe i will make a coherent analysis about it one day but that day is not today byeeeeeee